Focus XR5, makes you think twice when buying an astra VXR

[Wraith]

Nice figures.....

I knew it was possible to get anywhere from 195-215kw at the flywheel, from the donk in the Mk V Golf Gti with re-maps and exhaust only - is it exactly the same engine in the Audi S3 or does it have a bigger turbo and/or other goodies to achieve the 250kw listed above ??

I also assume then that the same can be done with the new Audi TT...

Oh, forgot to mention, when I last enquired with p/c Oz. they reckon the DSG in the Golf can't handle more than about 350nm torque and that VW has had quite a lot of service calls with failed units.

So is the DSG different as well or are they all using the same gearboxes - with those power levels listed above, I'm sure the toeque figure is well over the 350nm mark...

[VZKOOP]

Here's some info on what you can do with the GTi - http://www.oettinger.com.au/oau_vwgolf5gti_et.html
And the new S3 - http://www.oettinger.com.au/oau_audis38p_et.html

[Wraith]

Good and interesting info there, I've seen similar from other tuners.

No mention however about gearboxes behind the engines.

If you talk to powerchip Australia, they have 2 different tunes for this engine, because of the DSG not being able to cope with more than 350nm, so they say......

I wonder if these tuners bother with any of that or not ??

Also interesting to see the acceleration time improvements - I would have thought that an increase from 147 - 228kw would result in a better 0-100km time improvement of 7.2 down to 5.9, maybe traction is an issue

On a re-read, in fact they do mention the gearboxes - missed it 1st time, looks like they max out the torque at 390nm for the DSG..

[bornwild]

Yes, the XR5 is a better all-rounder than the VXR and probably a better choice car for the casual guy who wants to enjoy a drive down to great ocean road than the VXR.

BUT, I'd still get the VXR over the XR5....can't really explain why, there's just something to it....being a bad boy I guess!?

Anyhow, as for the "An R8 is better than a hot hatch debate".....depends. On a track, they'd be pretty close.

And the DSG is designed for ~750Nm maximum torque.(Safety factor being around 2.0ish I believe). Note:They use a DSG in the 1600Nm Bugatti Veyron.

[Wraith]

Yes, well aware of that, but that's definately a different gearbox to that in the Golfs...

It does however look like that the DSG's in the Golf's etc. are torque stress limited - the tuner noted by VZKOOP go to no more 390nm and powerchip go to no more than 350nm for the DSG - obviously it'll fail beyond that.

[bornwild]

Yes, well aware of that, but that's definately a different gearbox to that in the Golfs...

It does however look like that the DSG's in the Golf's etc. are torque stress limited - the tuner noted by VZKOOP go to no more 390nm and powerchip go to no more than 350nm for the DSG - obviously it'll fail beyond that.

No, that is false information. A safety factor of 2.0ish means that the optimal torque for a DSG is 750/2=375Nm. Optimum means that there is almost 0% chance of anything breaking due to unexpected stresses or miscalculations in material strength etc. Anything beyond 375 will work but expect the lifetime of the gearbox to decrease significantly and hence expect failures to occur more often. Theoretically it should work up to 750Nm without problems, reality of course does not coincide with theory on this case. My guess is that 450 would be the maximum advisable torque to transfer through the box.

I have seen a tuned 3.2l Audi TT-turbo that produces 505Nm using this very same 6sp DSG, not sure if they re-inforce it. It was an MTM RTT 400 RS, here is the link:
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen...rtikel_seite=1

[dug74]

Great little read...glad to see someone dug up this post...

Well i have driven all the hot hatches...and i like things from all of them...

As for the XR5...nearly owned a nice Electric Orange with Leather..and i wouldnt compare that to a SRiT...considering it was $41K d/away and a 4 months wait.

As for your comments on the VXR with torque steer....you ppl must all have tuckshop arms....put boths hands on the wheel..and you wont have a problem..

MPS3....now..im rather bias here....but torque steer isnt an issue..torque and boost limited in 1st and 2nd gear...LSD as well...geezz mazda are clever.

Has 2 final drive ratios in 5th and 6th gear...so you can have economy or performance....geezz mazda are clever again.

Price....well they are all about the same...depends if you want 3 drs, nice kit and ugly interior<VXR> 5 drs, 4 seats no cruise and expensive orange paint <XR5> or 5 drs picnic looking seats or leather, DSG and many other options bring it to $45K+ <Golf> or plain sleeper look styling, 5drs 5 seats, cloth or half leather, HID, LSD, 6stk MPS3 BOSE system and 190Kw stock...anything french i didnt bother with...they are unreliable..expensive to service and basically crap.

As for commonwhores or there performance brothers....always great to hear a V8..nice on the straight...corner coming up....oops missed it.

But hey...plenty more hot hatches appearing...Honda Civic Type R..released in a few days.. $39990

Open your eyes...no one has brand loyality these days...hence the reason why car companies are placing as many gadgets, safety features and styling cues in their cars and selling them competitively.

You buy a usually for a purpose, family orientated, sports, daily driver...not for the badge on the front..unless its $150K+

MPS6 is my choice of the best all rounder family/performance car...and will out shine a HSV clubbie anyday...maybe not straight line...but with 2x more cylinders and nearly 3x more Litres and 2x more fuel....with only marginal better times...you gotta wonder what all the fuss is about.

I wonder if we read this post in another years time...how ppls comments will change again...as more variety enters the market.

Cheers
DUG74

[Miyagi]

Wanna see the mazda 3 mps get around the Nürburgring?

Thought So!

[OZChris]

... and then there's always the Top Gear MPS6 / Vectra VXR / Mondeo G220 comparo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1PJFeOYVw

[gman]

The MPS3 has its fair share of problems with traction and handling, just like the VXR, Golf or XR5. The MPS3, and the "clever" people at Mazda haven't found the answer to the FWD problem of having 1 set of wheels steer, power and stop a car by a long shot..

The MPS3's 2.3Lt Duratec Ford sourced engine tends to use a fair bit of petrol too, which i've had friends who own them complain about....But, that said, it's a "good" all round, quicker than average shopping trolley...

As for torque steer, the VXR, Golf or XR5 doesn't have torque steer any worse than each other or any other higher powered FWD car and the MPS3 is exactly the same, LSD or not. Push the MPS3 hard and it plough understeers just like the others, except with 2 wheels spinning instead of one....

So even with an LSD and torque limited in 1st & 2nd (which the VXR is also through boost -ain't those Germans smart) the MPS3 has the same traction probs as the VXR, XR5 or Golf.

And there have been a few MAJOR quality control scares for the MPS3 in Aust too (maybe Mazda ain't so smart - he he he)

The MPS3 is heavier like the XR5 is which makes the handling, IMHO, feel "dull" and you can really feel the extra weight moving around..Don't like the steering, feels lifeless...

But I like the interior with the Half Leather / Bose "OPTION" and piano black interior trim on the MPS3 is prob the best of the bunch. The outside though is a bit "shopping cart grandma chic" for me...Some say sleeper, I say granny...

The XR5 & VXR both has Recaro's if you want them so there's really nothing in it there....

The Golf has the best gearbox in the DSG, best build quality and good interior when you spring for the leather option.....It handles great when pushed but is starting to show its lack of power with the newer hot hatches...

So whats the difference then. Well IMHO, its just 2 doors or 4, 100kg's or so up or down (which cancels any power advantage for the MPS3 or torque advantage for the XR5 5cyl Volvo engine which sounds awesome BTW) and an LSD..

So really it's the "do you like the look of it" arguement...VXR is the best looking IMHO....

When it comes to cost, really between a VXR, XR5, MPS3 or Golf you're talking about just about the the same amount of money for the similar trim levels, give or take a leather seat and $5,000 or so. Nothing really, which makes it a hard choice...

Me, I would buy a VXR and add an LSD, exhaust and re-flash over the XR5 (to heavy, don't like the handling), Golf (underpowered now which is a real pity) or MPS3 (to heavy, don't like the handling and don't like the looks)...

But thats just me..