Vic Consumer Law - Dud Aircon?

[cosmichobo]

G'day,

A few months back we became Zafira owners, picking up a 2002 model from a dealer at Car City for $5800 or so.

The car was sold as having working AirCon, and it appeared to be working at the time of purchase - though it was a cold winters day, and frankly the dealer didn't leave it running long at all before turning to hot (which worked fine). As it's more than 10 years old, the dealer advised there's no statutory warranty, but sold it with a "Sentinal" 3rd party warranty.

Then we had some hot weather, and found that the air con simply didn't get cold. I rang the dealer, who suggested checking the fuses, but otherwise - mechanical issues are covered by the 3rd party warranty, regassing though is on me. The fuses all checked ok, no expertise beyond that, so I needed to get my mechanic to look.

Finally got there today, and he's told me that the car is MISSING the air-con clutch, and as such he doubts its been working for years. He estimates $1,100 - $2,000 to repair.

The Sentinal warranty only covers $350 (lowest cover level, of course), though given that the car didn't have working A/C to begin with, they may not accept the claim at all.

Does anyone know if I have any legal leg to stand on here, in terms of getting the dealer to repair the Air Con? My only thought is - false advertising... Both my wife and I heard him say it had working A/C, and I'm sure it was listed on the piece of paper in the car's window... though it's not listed on any of the paperwork I have for the car.

If it's going to cost $2k to fix, then it's going to be a very hot summer...

On the bright side... He says the engine is in tip top shape.

cheers,

cosmic

Warning: This is an Old Thread This discussion is older than 120 days. information contained in it may no longer be current . Please think of the children before resurrecting this ancient thread!

[kovert]

It depends on how long ago you purchased the vehicle and its age. It applies to vehicles less than ten years old. Full statutory warranty information (VIC) can be found here: http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/motor...car/warranties

In Queensland you used to get three months statutory warranty on (dealer) used vehicles and air con was definitely covered. If your vehicle is in the shop for repairs for five days, you get a five day statutory warranty extension (QLD). I argued this with a car dealer years ago who refused these terms. They were very surprised when I quoted the legislation and thereafter complied with my request.

[cosmichobo]

Thanks for the reply, kovert. Having lived for 6 years up in Brissie (which was when I bought my last used car), I was expecting that 3 month statutory warranty, so was surprised when purchasing the car here in VIC that we were told there was no such cover as the vehicle is over 10 years of age. He hyped up the "free" Sentinel Warranty however, saying it would cover us if something went wrong.

I spoke to Vic Consumer Affairs this morning, and their advice was to talk to the dealer first, follow it up in writing if required, and if they still wont come to the party, to tell them I'll take them to VCAT - Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal. There is only a "small" (about $150 I think) fee, no lawyers needed.

So I then called the dealership and spoke to the guy who sold us the car. His (friendly) reaction was - the quote is WAY too high, and to lodge a claim with the warranty people, as they will likely have a preferred mechanic that "should get the job done for much closer to the $350 that they will cover".

At this point, I'm proceeding with that plan of attack. If he's right, and they do have someone who will do it for, say, $550, then I'll wear the $200 extra... But if it's much more than that, I'll be telling the dealer that I want him to contribute to the cost.

If Sentinel wont cover the claim at all, given that a component was MISSING (as noted on the quote), then I guess things will progress along a different track...

[kovert]

If the dealer is friendly try to work with them first. They could sort it out without you having to lodge with VCAT. You'll save time - and with some luck - money.

Perhaps the Australian Consumer Law (2011) also covers it: "Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that their description of motor vehicles (for example, in a catalogue or television commercial) is accurate" <http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/acl_resources/downloads/industry_guides/motor_vehicle_sales.pdf.>

Good luck.

[cosmichobo]

Thanks again, kovert!

So, I had the vehicle to the workshop recommended by Sentinel/National Warranty Company today. At first, he thought he could just get a new clutch for the compressor, saving $$$, but after taking the compressor off and examining it, he's said it does need to be replaced, along with the drive belt. His quote came in around $200 more than "my" mechanic - which makes sense as my guy said there could be further costs once he got the compressor off/etc.

Really glad that the second opinion went the same way as the first.

The new mechanic has already lodged the claim with Sentinel, and been approved - for $350 only.

But, the dealer still says I'm being ripped off, and guaranteed that he can find someone to do it for half the price.

At this point, I'm giving him until tomorrow afternoon to come up with an agreeable alternative - one that doesn't involve a compressor from a wrecker (!), and must be Geelong based, unless he's going to drive out here, leave a car for my wife, take the Zafira to Melb for repair, then bring it back... (At time of purchase I asked if the Warranty required servicing in Melb, as we are based in Geelong, and he said No, just use "your own guy" in Geelong).

Luckily, I've found 2 ads for the car on the Net (even tho it was sold in June; the Net doesn't forget easily), and both say the car has AirCon! Printed them out so if they disappear, I've got print outs. So come tomorrow afternoon, I'm thinking I'll be having a show-down with him.

Thanks for the above link. Vic Cons Affairs suggested Section 54 of the Aust Consumer Law (referring to "acceptable quality"), but now I have the ads, section 56 is about item description (looks similar to your link, though that's specific to cars, so I'll look further at that one too!), so - hopefully once I start quoting sections of the Act, and telling him I'm happy to pay the $158 for VCAT rather than $1359 for the repair... he'll realise I'm serious.

Cheers
cosmic

[kovert]

Pretty expensive - most of it is probably labour costs. If the dealer can find someone who can do it for half the price you'll still be out of pocket. If you decide to lodge it might be an idea to have the printouts of the ads certified by a Justice of the Peace as soon as you can. <http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/home/justice+system/legal+assistance/justice+of+the+peace/> This provides proof you have printouts of the ads without alteration or erasure. You might have to show the JP on a mobile device and show them the printouts for certification.

[cosmichobo]

Well, the friendly dealer facade has cracked as soon as I said I wasn't going to pay for the repairs, and especially once I started quoting the Aust Consumer Law. "If you're going to play that game, I SWEAR you wont get any more help from me!"

His version of "help" was telling me to go with a compressor from a wrecker for $150, and repeating over and over that the 2 mechanics had triple-charged on labour, as "his guy" would do it in 1 hour, not 3. When I said to him, either way, there's still going to be around $500 more than the 3rd Party Warranty will pay, and I didn't feel I should have to pay considering it was sold to me as being an air conditioned car, he started getting aggressive.

I've just been looking online, and have found at least 1 site with reviews for THE USED CAR GALLERY, RINGWOOD, with similar stories either regarding faults that they wouldn't admit to, or aggressive behaviour.


The breakdown for the 2nd quote goes roughly:
$720 Re-con compressor
$198 Re-gas
$363 labour
$43 Fan belt

(Which is very similar to the original quote)

I went back and spoke to the 2nd mechanic today, asking - Would you use a compressor from a wrecker? He said no, he doesn't like to, because you don't know what you're getting, and they don't come with as good a warranty as a re-conditioned one. He is going to put all this down in writing for me, and "my mechanic" will no doubt do the same when I get a chance to talk to him next week - including his impression that the a/c hadn't been working for "some time".


Thanks again, kovert! When I printed the ads off the Net, I thought to myself that there was no way to prove they were genuine - hadn't even thought of a JP! Will get that done!

I'm going to write a letter to the car yard tonight, quoting as much of the Consumer Law as I can, and telling them I want them to pay the 2nd mechanic to do the repair, as per his quote. If they are not willing, I'll take them to VCAT.

There is also a passage in that link you provided about:

a reasonable consumer would not have bought
the motor vehicle if they had known about the full
extent of the problem.

Given that the full repair cost is around 25% of the cost of the vehicle - I think that's certainly an issue!

*deep sigh*

Well, time will tell....

[kovert]

Wait a minute, the half star reviews are probably the lowest possible rating. The fault appears to be a 'major failure'. The resolution provided so far is not acceptable. The best plan of attack is to gather evidence and resolve it step by step. Writing a letter of demand is a good approach as you would most likely be required by VCAT to demonstrate that you have gone to reasonable lengths to obtain a resolution/remedy from the dealer. Note the dates and times you contacted the dealer, how you contacted them and the outcomes as you will probably have to list them in your submission. I'm very keen to see how it all pans out.

[cosmichobo]

Update...

I've just sent off my letter of demand. I have certified copies of their ads, letters from 2 mechanics outlining that the fault was present at time of sale, and costs to repair (and why they advise against wrecker compressors). Also spoke to a competition and consumer law lawyer, who gave me 4-5 points of consumer law to use to prove my case.

Fairly hopeful that they will either pay immediately, or that VCAT will find in my favour...

[kovert]

If only the dealer did the right thing from the start... Hope to see more positive updates soon.