Diesel>Petrol

[mintaka]

100 ft-pds torque.. that aint that much

also they dont graph the petrol power curve.. wonder why

Sorry Entice, but they are quoting 200 ft-pds (red line) which is 271 nm from Zero rpm. A turbo-Petrol Golf GTI has 280 nm, but doesn't produce that until well into the rev range.

You've got 271 nm from the moment you touch the accelerator. No petrol or diesel engine can ever do that (at least, not one that I could afford!) That's instant response! Wish I could buy one.

Mintaka

[mintaka]

That was the point I was making also. It's the way the manual CDTi makes hills dissapear. It's an addictive sensation...as is the mid-range acceleration, it has a V8 like quality about it.

I am approaching 40 too, perhaps it's an age thing

digifish

LOL - Our poor old ears don't like the sound of screaming petrol engines anymore!

Mintaka

[dieselhead]

Now I think we all know that you can't seriously compare an atmo LPG powered engine to a petrol or diesel turbo engine BTW was it an 8 or 6....

i was giving the example of a V6 VE Berlina just to show how fuel saving can go stupid. a $40k car, with no poke and a minuscule boot, and with a fabulous with 350km range! . i had no idea you can LPG a V8, now that's really something to laugh about, haha! why on earth would you do that to a high performance car? hm, wonder how an Evo of the STi would run on LPG... at least they would be very green like that, full of gas, we can all agree on that. cleaner than diesels for sure.

i'm aproaching 40, too. the love for diesels-could be a symptom of the "grumpy old man" syndrome?

[entice]

ummm..careful with those thoughts, dieselhead...

I recall reading many many moons ago, about a modified sigma, 2.6L turbo, running on LPG. Now, one thing that they mentioned, was upping the engines static CR. Yep. Instead of dropping it, they upped it.

The reasoning was that the flammability/combustability/ and therefore "octane rating" (if you like) of LPG was greater than that of petrol. However, LPG required a greater CR to enable that combustability. Hence, they upped the CR, modified teh bejeesus out of teh car, and still remained epa compliant. I also am not sure if it ran some kind of water injection for temps.

So, why hasnt it taken off? Who knows..

More interestingly, arent we the only country that uses LPG in our fleets (eg Taxi's etc). No-one here is disputing it's "greenness", so why isnt it mainstream? I'm typically not a conspiracy theorist, but lets face it, the large oil companies have the power in this world.
Otherwise, we'd all be nuclear, have powerful battery celled vehicles, with no emissions and we'd be patching up the ozone layer with our electric motors....(oh, btw, the "powerful petrol performance car that the link in the post of that batt car had, was listed at 100ftlb ..something I seriously doubt)

wow..all thos technical terms and I'm not even an engineer!

[Alix]

OK, I've lurked long enough. Time I put my 2c worth in.

• No, diesel isn't better than petrol. It's different.
• I don't want the BMW - they're overpriced for what you get. I prefer value for money. (Which is partially why I bought a CDTi - which I think is outstanding value for money for a new car.)
• I'm interested in the DTUK box o'tricks, but I'm not all that keen on taking the insurance risk, and truth be told, my regular driving regime wouldn't do it justice - I don't do track work, and I'm not always going for an out-and-out fang either.
• From the limited research I did, diesel is less polluting than petrol - but there's not a lot in it. One is ahead in some areas, the other in others. Depends what you're measuring. Oh, and diesel takes less refining, but again, there isn't much in it.
• Trucks aren't going to run on ethanol anytime soon - they'd need new engines. Biodiesel they can switch to with modifications. The CDTi's manual says you can only use up to 5% biodiesel anyway.
• Bang-for-buck is certainly the CDTi's strong point. Paying extra for the Golf TDI or the Peugeot HDI and getting pretty much the same or lower performance dulls this argument somewhat - this is a CDTI advantage, not a turbo-diesel advantage.
• I don't like leather seats! And the upgraded screen looks a pain to read/use, especially on the go on a sunny day.
• The sound of diesels is different, not "crap". Not that you notice when you're behind the driver's seat at anything more than about 50kph anyway.
• You don't need a glove to fill them - only if you're going to spill diesel on yourself when you fill up. When was the last time you spilt petrol on yourself when you filled up?
• I've only ever come across one servo that didn't have the right sized nozzles on their diesel pumps (Shell just off the Hume just south of Gundagai if anyone wants to avoid it - the BP just north has the right ones). That's because there are plenty of diesel cars out there, and have been for years. Mostly 4WDs, but they count if they encourage the servos to fit decent pumps instead of forcing diesel drivers around the back with the big rigs and busses.
• When I filled up on Monday diesel was cheaper than regular unleaded. This wasn't the first time. Diesel doesn't have the big price variability that petrol does. Probably because the big users - trucking companies etc. - have enough clout to stop the petrol companies playing silly buggers with the price each week.
• I enjoy twisty roads too. Brake - Point - Squirt work is great in my CDTi because the torque is ready to fling you out of each corner. Even uphill. In my experience, anyway. :angel:
• The CDTi has glowplugs. Not that I've yet seen the indicator light come on saying they're turned on, but it has them. Living in Canberra, and parking outside, I daresay I will sometime over winter.
• Top Gear also tested a bunch of older "supercars" around a track - against a Astra diesel. Guess which won?
• I love long trips in the CDTi = effortless. Seriously, put it in 6th as you leave Sydney, leave it there until you arrive in Canberra. I do know the bit near Mittagong too.
• Actually, IMHO its around town that the diesel is closer to a regular petrol car. Unless you plant your foot a bit, that it, when you're going to leap away from the usual traffic drudgery, no matter which "performance" model you're driving.
• Syd/Mel @ 8.6L/100km? On country roads I get 5.5L/100km in the CDTi. With only 4000kms on it now. That's quite a saving by my calculator - about 35%. In fact, my fuel consumption was up a bit on the last tank, because I'd done a lot of short trips to and from work on a cold engine (<10mins) and dragged a lot of trailers full of gravel around. With 100km to go I was showing an average of 7.8L/100km. I went for a fang last weekend out along Cotter Road, east of Canberra - some nice twisty bits there. 70kms later the average consumption reading had dropped to 7.7L/100km. There's no fuel penalty in driving the CDTi harder - which is part of the attraction.
• The particulate filters stop the black smoke. Next year's Opel Astra models have them as standard. Don't know what Holden's plans for the CDTi are though.
• The Tesla has a range of what - 300kms? Maybe 350? Will this go down as the batteries age? And how much is the battery pack going to cost to replace? Niche car, not a valid comparision.

Not having a go at anyone here, it was just too much to go through a quote all the replies!

The CDTi's advantages are higher performance per dollar; lower emissions per kilometre; and lower cost per kilometer. If those things float your boat, go for it.

Now that diesel fuel regs in Australia match what they are in Europe (at least until the Euros next tighten them), and while the AU$ is so strong, and while Australians in general are fairly well-off, then importing and selling euro diesels makes sense. As enviro-awareness takes off and we all try to reduce our fuel usage I reckon the government might go the same way as the euros and try to encourage lower-usage by encouraging diesel take-up in the passenger car market through the same tax-fiddles the euros have used. So, the running costs would get even lower.

Overall, I'm really happy I bought a CDTi, and I think for the time I own this car, I'm going to end up in front than if I'd bought a comparable petrol model - I simply wouldn't have found anything near it for the price. Your milage may - of course - vary. Depends what you want the car for. But neither is "better" per say - just "better for You".

[digifish]

LOL - Our poor old ears don't like the sound of screaming petrol engines anymore!

Mintaka

...that and it's tiring keeping highly strung petrol engines on the boil.

I will admit the CDTi is a little fussy (lots of gears to choose from, very powerful brakes and firmish suspension), around town in stop/start peak hour city traffic (not that I drive in it much) and the clutch is a tad heavier than most other cars of it's class.

...my wifes car is a 2003 Passat...it's a completely different experience, soft, quiet and smooth, if I was doing the peak-hour crawl, I'd much rather be in that...but it feels so blunt and slow after the Astra

digifish

[digifish]

1. The sound of diesels is different, not "crap". Not that you notice when you're behind the driver's seat at anything more than about 50kph anyway.

2. The particulate filters stop the black smoke. Next year's Opel Astra models have them as standard. Don't know what Holden's plans for the CDTi are though.

1 - I love the sound it makes...a brutal, animal sound 'grawwwwwwww' sound...it leaves you feeling a little dazed...doing 100 in a 60 zone

2 - The manual CDTi doesn't have particulate filters and IMO doesn't need them. At worst it creates a grey haze on full song, and that's only sometimes...I am not sure why. Particulate filters are also something else to go wrong. BTW most petrol cars do the same when given the boot and more than 50K on the clock.

digifish

[entice]

[*]Syd/Mel @ 8.6L/100km? On country roads I get 5.5L/100km in the CDTi. With only 4000kms on it now. That's quite a saving by my calculator - about 35%. In fact, my fuel consumption was up a bit on the last tank, because I'd done a lot of short trips to and from work on a cold engine (<10mins) and dragged a lot of trailers full of gravel around. With 100km to go I was showing an average of 7.8L/100km. I went for a fang last weekend out along Cotter Road, east of Canberra - some nice twisty bits there. 70kms later the average consumption reading had dropped to 7.7L/100km. There's no fuel penalty in driving the CDTi harder - which is part of the attraction.]".

All reasonably put until this part.. and perhaps it's cos u didnt quote that you got it wrong at this point. 8.6L/100 k's is on the wider tyres, heavier platform, and day to day CITY driving only. On a recent longish trip I returned 6.8L/100km's, with the aircon ON.

Having driven the CDTI, in my opinion, it aint the one for spirited driving when you want fun in the tisties, but that's just my opinion....

for city driving, I think it'd be the one....

[Alix]

All reasonably put until this part.. and perhaps it's cos u didnt quote that you got it wrong at this point. 8.6L/100 k's is on the wider tyres, heavier platform, and day to day CITY driving only. On a recent longish trip I returned 6.8L/100km's, with the aircon ON.

Fair point - I stand corrected. For the record, my 5.5 was with aircon on too.

EDIT: I had a brochure handy, so I checked. CDX Wagon Manual = 1325kg. CDTi Hatch Manual = 1372kg. And I'm no lightweight either. How much difference are the tyres really going to make?

I couldn't tell you my purely-city economy ATM - haven't had a purely-city tankful yet.

[digifish]

Having driven the CDTI, in my opinion, it aint the one for spirited driving when you want fun in the tisties, but that's just my opinion....

My experience is that it's a joy and revelation in the twisties...X10 if they are also twisting up hill. The more I own this car (6 months now), the more I love it....apart from the oil leak

Every time I get mine in the country = , my sig is for real BTW.

digifish