A 'new' barina on hold ad i heard

[pred8r]

Rung my local service dept, they put me on hold and what i heard was;

"the new barina is longer, wider and zippier"....."and better fuel economy"....

Damn....zipper and better fuel economy, I'll have to trade in my OLD 92kw
and 5.4lt/100 or 7.8lt/100km (6.6lt/100km average) SRi to one of the NEW 77kw 6.9lt/100km (combined) ones.

And at almost half the price BARGAIN!!!

BULL$HIT, Holden, BULL$HIT

Oh and yeah, I want a small car thats wider and longer than the last one, which is why Im looking at small cars DUH!.

(Granted the 'little' engined 'OLD' barina only had 66kw but it still has better fuel economy)

BLATANT FALSE ADVERTISING!!!

[corsa2nv]

agree with you there, seeing that the new barina is a 1.6L and the previous one was the 1.4L. im still spewing that the Corsa D isnt comming 2 aus, after seeing pics of the VXR GRRRRRR, also was on the vauxhall website last night, and realised that the new corsa d isnt comming out with the 1.8L motor.

[mr_sikma]

link to pics of the corsa d?

[Diabolical]

link to pics of the corsa d?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060718.007/country/gcf/Opel/all-new-opel-corsa-details
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060322.005/country/gcf/Opel/new-opel-corsa-world-premiere-in-london

[Red AH SRI T]

Hey man, don't blame Holden.

The dealers choice of material to play to you whilst your on Hold is up to the individual dealer, not Holden

[rjastra]

I can understand why Holden didn't bring the new Corsa in. Top petrol engine is a 1.4L!
How would that compete in the market here where people are now expecting 1.6L engines?

[MatsHolden]

I can understand why Holden didn't bring the new Corsa in. Top petrol engine is a 1.4L!
How would that compete in the market here where people are now expecting 1.6L engines?

Wasn't the reason Holden dropped it though. Most people that buy Barinas wouldn't know what size engine it has, so wouldn't be a factor.

[rjastra]

Most people that buy Barinas wouldn't know what size engine it has, so wouldn't be a factor.

Of course they do... As soon as they test drive the competitors and feel the difference in performance. Especially all the auto drivers.

People maybe rather ignorant on kW/Nm figures but they will focus on engine size. Especially if it is smaller than the direct competitors

[pred8r]

yes BUT using that logic, bigger engine uses more fuel (unless its the opel 1.8)

[rjastra]

yes BUT using that logic, bigger engine uses more fuel (unless its the opel 1.8)


Not necessarily true. Especially with autos!!

Though my sister reckons here Barina SRi guzzles fuel compared to her old Mazda 121.

[MatsHolden]

Of course they do... As soon as they test drive the competitors and feel the difference in performance. Especially all the auto drivers.

People maybe rather ignorant on kW/Nm figures but they will focus on engine size. Especially if it is smaller than the direct competitors

I know plenty of people who see a car as 'just a car' and they have no idea what size engine the car they're driving has let alone it's class competitors.

[cybermonkey]

I can understand why Holden didn't bring the new Corsa in. Top petrol engine is a 1.4L!
How would that compete in the market here where people are now expecting 1.6L engines?
not true, yes the biggest petrol engine being offered is CURRENTLY the 1.4 Twinport, but its a 90bhp unit and very economical, then there is the prospect of an HSV Barina :cool: using the brand new 1.6 Turbo, with power estimates ranging from 180bhp to 200bhp, in a car that weighs 1100kg :eek:

Holden is making a massive mistake not using the new euro corsa, that korean thing is total trash!!!

then we get onto the idea of diesels. these are all CDTi common rails in both 1.3 and 1.7 guise. with the latter producing the same power figure as the old 1.8 SRi, but almost 280nm torque!!! then you are getting the insane 3-5l per 100km fuel economy. very nippy little car it will be...

[pred8r]

insane 3-5l per 100km fuel economy
Like they'd let them into Oz when people are paying $1.40/lt for fuel.

Its not economic for THEM.

[cybermonkey]

Like they'd let them into Oz when people are paying $1.40/lt for fuel.

Its not economic for THEM.

THEM i presume you mean the oil companies :confused:

[jerrypufflewell]

Or Holden who r trying to flog off the new Commi...

[JasonGilholme]

Its holden. What more do i have to say...

[pred8r]

THEM i presume you mean the oil companies :confused:
To name a few who would lose out (short-medium term);
Servo's = less fuel sold
Oil Co=less fuel sold
Holden (or other car manufacturers)= losses of revenue though other models not selling
Government= umm where to start... reduced GST takings and Fuel taxes.

that would just be the beginning.......

This is why we dont have EV's like the REVA on our roads. The effects and ramifications would be GLOBAL (but only to big business, funny that)

[cybermonkey]

To name a few who would lose out (short-medium term);
Servo's = less fuel sold
Oil Co=less fuel sold
Holden (or other car manufacturers)= losses of revenue though other models not selling
Government= umm where to start... reduced GST takings and Fuel taxes.

that would just be the beginning.......

This is why we dont have EV's like the REVA on our roads. The effects and ramifications would be GLOBAL (but only to big business, funny that)

this is the typical anti-diesel rantings i expect from an australian. like it or not, diesel is going to play a big part soon, expect a diesel Commodore before long...

[MatsHolden]

this is the typical anti-diesel rantings i expect from an australian. like it or not, diesel is going to play a big part soon, expect a diesel Commodore before long...

I don't believe he was being anti-diesel. Personally I won't buy a diesel while petrol is still with us.

[pred8r]

this is the typical anti-diesel rantings i expect from an australian. like it or not, diesel is going to play a big part soon, expect a diesel Commodore before long...

Thank you Mat. :D

And to CyberMonkey;
WTF??? Where do you get anti diesel rant from, I'm stating the obvious.
Whether YOU like it or not we will not be getting cars that go much below 4km/lt for many years if at all because of who will lose out. If we do you will NOT see it in a sub$20k pricebracket.
FFS even the Prius isnt much below 4.5(combined) and the fortwo at 4.8 (city).

If you are a diesel freak, why dont you do yourself a favour and run your car on used fish and chip oil with the few cheap additives to turn it into a biodiesel? The main reason diesel is so popular is the quality of the fuel can be absolute garbage and the car will still run, the fact that diesel gets half decent milage is a nice benefit and if you want to get over 2000kms to a 'tank of diesel' INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE FRICKIN TANK!!! you wouldnt even have to have good economy to sell a $15k car that could go 2000kms on a tank of diesel (the fact that it would cost $500 to fill would finish that car off)

Did you also notice that the factory LPG option was left out of the Australian delivered Corsa C? The last thing they want is 50c/lt fuel popular again, esp. on a top selling car. The ONLY thing that has stopped me from ordering the direct injection LPG kit for the 1.8 is that noone here would know how to tune it otherwise i WOULD be filling for $20/week instead of $60, stuff the performance loss, itll still give most similar stuff a run even if i lost 20% (which you wouldnt).

Anyway as fuel economy gets better the price of fuel WILL go up to pay for the reduced amount of fuel we use.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not used because? why? if they ran the fuelcell the correct way you could pour water in one end and get hydrogen for the engine to burn and oxygen as a waste exhaust gas but you dont see them on the road. You could fill with a bucket from the ocean, how do you charge for that??? They want us to use a bottled hydrogen refill system, similar to the current lpg setups so they can charge for the hydrogen.

Do we get EV's? NO, WHY? because if you got 200km out of a charge and could plug in to a normal powerpoint to charge overnight, what NORMAL society would put up with their electricity bills jumping to $400/month, to cover thier 'other' losses, just because you MAY have and electric car. This is a similar reason for not seeing CNG vehicles around, connect hose from house fill car at .003cents/lt, or whatever it is.

What do we get, we get a little pissy PETROL engine to run and charge an electric system. Interestingly enough why do they usually only state COMBINED fuel usage? Because in high usage areas like a city it would drink like any other 1.whateverLt engine.

FYI the WORST economy I have EVER gotten from my 1.8 is just over 12.5lt/100km (city driving) which is why i chose the Corsa C SRi at the time and for the price NOTHING on the market gets close(including now), unless you can show me a MAXIMUM 3 yr old car that does 0-100 in the 9s 400m in the 15s and also can get 5.4l/100km? Oh forgot to mention SUB $25k NEW.

So how much is the cheapest top spec model diesel (or petrol for that matter) on the aussie market at the moment that can do similar figures to above less than 3yrs old.

That was a rant. But my statement stays the same (and i never did mention diesel, prior to this post).
THEY DO NOT WANT US TO HAVE THEM.

[jerrypufflewell]

Top rant, I agree totally :)

[Dave]

you have an interesting point about the gas. especally with the fuel geting to 130 -150 latley.

[EL BURITO]

Pred good points there mate (i still want a cdti)

[cybermonkey]

THEY DO NOT WANT US TO HAVE THEM.

You are just speculating to be honest. there are no hard facts about what you are claiming, its just a theory from your head.

Reading MOTOR mag for example, they absolutely shun any diesel powered car because they are dirty, slow and smoky. they could not be further from the truth.

PS, im not pro-diesel, im neutral on the subject.

[pred8r]

You are just speculating to be honest. there are no hard facts about what you are claiming, its just a theory from your head.

Reading MOTOR mag for example, they absolutely shun any diesel powered car because they are dirty, slow and smoky. they could not be further from the truth.

PS, im not pro-diesel, im neutral on the subject.
They are all a business not a charity, they are there to make money - not people happy.
BUT
If you make the people THINK they are happy by giving them what they THINK they need, its better all round.

The power of clever marketing and social engineering.

Re Motor's opinions they are SO biased towards certain manufacturers that its not even funny. They do have nice pics though.

[rjastra]

The main reason diesel is so popular is the quality of the fuel can be absolute garbage and the car will still run

Huh? modern diesels only really like running on squeaky clean low sulphur diesel.


The last thing they want is 50c/lt fuel popular again, esp. on a top selling car.

They? who are "they". Holden (or ford or whomever) will built anything they can sell for a profit.


Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not used because? why?

1. They aren't perfected yet for mass production.
2 Their cost would far outweigh and fuel savings seen by the consumer.


if they ran the fuelcell the correct way you could pour water in one end and get hydrogen for the engine to burn and oxygen as a waste exhaust gas but you dont see them on the road.

Bwwahahaha, thats not how they work at all. You either have a supply of pure hydrogen or a source of hydrogen (like methanol etc). Pure hydrogen requires an initial source of electricity (ie Power station = fossil fuel)


This is a similar reason for not seeing CNG vehicles around, connect hose from house fill car at .003cents/lt, or whatever it is.


There are no prodcution vehicles in Oz setup for this. There is not infrastructure for refuelling. It IS available in Places like Japan.


What do we get, we get a little pissy PETROL engine to run and charge an electric system. Interestingly enough why do they usually only state COMBINED fuel usage? Because in high usage areas like a city it would drink like any other 1.whateverLt engine.


In fact hybrids are at their best in city traffic. Mainly becuase of regenerative braking, engine-stop at traffic lights and high efficiency petrol engines.


FYI the WORST economy I have EVER gotten from my 1.8 is just over 12.5lt/100km (city driving) which is why i chose the Corsa C SRi at the time and for the price NOTHING on the market gets close(including now), unless you can show me a MAXIMUM 3 yr old car that does 0-100 in the 9s 400m in the 15s and also can get 5.4l/100km? Oh forgot to mention SUB $25k NEW.


I was going to say Polo Gti but you slipped in the $25K proviso :) It can beat all the figures.

The reason none of these technologiers have taken off to date is that petrol have been relatively inexpensive up to now. This will make alternate fuels more cost effective.

People are already improving their fuel economy in the most easy way known.. They are driving LESS. 2005 was the first year in recent history where our fuel usage declined ( by i think 8%).

People must realise they can probably see large reductions in their fuel bills by:
1. Driving more economically
2. Combining trips
3. Driving less
4. Using more public transport.

Once they have done all that THEN they can start bitching :)

[jerrypufflewell]

In fact hybrids are at their best in city traffic. Mainly becuase of regenerative braking, engine-stop at traffic lights and high efficiency petrol engines.
No, they are at their best coasting down long long hills :P

Very good points you give there

[MatsHolden]

Damn those electric hybrid vehicles are dangerous at low speeds! You can't hear them!

Just a suggestion guys, maybe start a new thread on this issue about diesel, alternative fuels etc. As it's quite different to what the topic was originally about... a dealer phone advertisement! lol

[pred8r]

Just a suggestion guys, maybe start a new thread on this issue about diesel, alternative fuels etc. As it's quite different to what the topic was originally about... a dealer phone advertisement! lol

heheh we have havent we :)

So yeah, shame on you you holden dealer you.....


And re the Polo gti, one competitor and 5 years difference in model age (the Corsa C SRi was released in 2000, GTi was late '05)
Not a bad run for a sport model to hold its place.
Should also said N/A, oh well, have to give you a chance somewhere.
Although combined economy is 7.8/100 and its over the 25k mark :)
BUT
After doing a quick bit of research, the closest to the SRi spec is actually the Polo TDi $23k 74kw 0-100 in 10.7 and a combined economy of 5lt/100
Couldnt find a 400m.

[pred8r]

Huh? modern diesels only really like running on squeaky clean low sulphur diesel.
I was talking about why they are still being researched, Obvoiusly ANY improvement in ANY fuel will give benefits to the end user, but i was stating that diesel can be of a really bad quality and it would still work. (which is why they would be the engine of choice for 3rd world countries)
The more common issue NOW is their pollution, which by improving fuel quality will inturn create less harmful pollution. Diesels were 'bad' because the fuel itself was. (diesel fuel quality and usages clicky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Fuel_and_fluid_characteristics))


They? who are "they". Holden (or ford or whomever) will built anything they can sell for a profit.
NOT if it is detrimental to themselves, their shareholders or 'aquaintances' in ajoining markets. EVERYTHING needs to stay balanced and sustainable. eg If sold cars for $1 more than they cost to make, you would not be in business for long, even though you are making a profit.


1. They aren't perfected yet for mass production.
2 Their cost would far outweigh and fuel savings seen by the consumer.
Why not they have been around for years, the research is there, it would not be long term economically viable. (yet it is to build a $200 mp3 player that does nothing else? and has built-in obselescence)


Bwwahahaha, thats not how they work at all. You either have a supply of pure hydrogen or a source of hydrogen (like methanol etc). Pure hydrogen requires an initial source of electricity (ie Power station = fossil fuel)
Ok, MY mistake, what i was thinking of was the reverse of a fuel cell, Similar principle clicky (http://www.lonelantern.org/downloads/Water%20Powered%20Car.wmv) (its a vid, dont bother on dialup) its called, i think, water electrolosis)


There are no prodcution vehicles in Oz setup for this. There is not infrastructure for refuelling. It IS available in Places like Japan.
You will be suprised what we dont have Opel Zafira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Zafira) and others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_vehicles).
As for refilling see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas) (3rd sentence, 2nd paragraph under technology heading) and here (http://www.originenergy.com.au/about/template.php?pageid=299) (if you call 16 sites Australia wide as a driving force)


In fact hybrids are at their best in city traffic. Mainly becuase of regenerative braking, engine-stop at traffic lights and high efficiency petrol engines.
And when your battery goes flat???


I was going to say Polo Gti but you slipped in the $25K proviso :) It can beat all the figures.
See my post above, re the Polo CDi (Corsa C, still a 5yr lead though)


The reason none of these technologies have taken off to date is that petrol have been relatively inexpensive up to now. This will make alternate fuels more cost effective.
Its supply and demand, reduction in supply with the same demand will increase the price, just like an increase in demand without production will.
An interesting read about fuel prices and control clicky (http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm).


People are already improving their fuel economy in the most easy way known.. They are driving LESS. 2005 was the first year in recent history where our fuel usage declined ( by i think 8%).
Also the uptake of small economic cars like barina/excel/fiesta that use 2/3rds the fuel of the carbied ones they upgraded from.


People must realise they can probably see large reductions in their fuel bills by:
1. Driving more economically
2. Combining trips
3. Driving less
4. Using more public transport.

Once they have done all that THEN they can start bitching :) I agree with the 4 points but THEN is too late, if i have your dollar NOW, I'm not giving it to you later.

All society need is for a few more sheeple to take the blue pill (or was it the red one)and see things for what they are (or becoming). I suppose the real question is, is it already too late?

I dont expect people to agree with what I say, but if it makes you doubt something you 'know' or even think about why you are about to do a particular thing before you do it (even if you still do it), my work here is done ;)

Its not hard (is for some) to think:eek:.

[Dave]

People must realise they can probably see large reductions in their fuel bills by:
1. Driving more economically
2. Combining trips
3. Driving less
4. Using more public transport.

Once they have done all that THEN they can start bitching :)


lol i tried that, Its called looseing ones licence, i didnt realy save any money, fricken public scumport cost just about as much, plus it was slow and didnt get ya where you needed when ya needed. blah blah blah
I have a million and one reasons.

I prefer my car.

[rjastra]

And re the Polo gti, one competitor and 5 years difference in model age (the Corsa C SRi was released in 2000, GTi was late '05)
Not a bad run for a sport model to hold its place.


Actually the current Polo is the facelift of the model released a few years ago. So it s not that "young" in the scheme of things.

VW had a 125hp 1.6L 16v Polo Gti in Europe for awhile before that. Not that we got it here.


The only real competitor now for the old Barina SRi is the Fiesta ZETEC. But it only has 78kw.