Coming to WA in 2007? Be careful!

[blackSRi]

The W.A. government announced today new changes to the penalties for road offences and many fines will increase. :eek:
It's interesting - demerits for "Using fog lights inappropriately" drop and speeding demerits rise.
Fog lamps on all the time are a pain at the moment with many many drivers having them on - it would be good to keep the demerits high to persuade drivers not to do this (many don't know it's illegal to use fog lamps all the time - when there's no fog/smoke!).
On the other hand it's good to see more 'points for failing to keep left - a big problem in Perth - drivers here just don't keep left!
Have a look at the list for details: http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/media/media.nsf/9dbd10dc05971ee348256a76000cc002/d2e540afe38ccb6148257165002be571/$FILE/Penaltiesmatrixmodified%202.doc

[MatsHolden]

It's illegal in Victoria too, to have foglights on when there is no poor conditions (Rain/fog/smoke) but the Police don't enforce it here. I even see the Police driving around with them on in fine conditions. lol

[EL BURITO]

i dont understand some of them but they didnt but demerits on upto 10kms over so i can cope.

A lot of these would be down to officer discression as well by the looks of it

[EL BURITO]

It's illegal in Victoria too, to have foglights on when there is no poor conditions (Rain/fog/smoke) but the Police don't enforce it here. I even see the Police driving around with them on in fine conditions. lol

Every night when i finish at 1 or 2 am i have them on for my safety too many roos on Marmian Avenue bloody dangerous. then again i norrmaly only see 1-3 other cars at that time of night

[blackSRi]

I think I have seen cops with them on once this year - 25C 3pm, fine sunny day.
Hmm... also have seen police... not indicating on dual carriageway (turning right), ignoring lane markings at traffic lights (right hand-only turn), round abouts (ie turning right from the left lane), you name it - I have seen it.
Fogs? well using them on a fine night at 7-8pm on a twisty 4 lane road like Mountsbay is silly.
I have used fogs I think 3 times in 3 years in Perth (fog one morning, thick smoke twice) - I have used them rarely down south on Sue's Road to discourage roos - the sideways light beam turns them away, but this is only at dusk and no vehicles on the road (if I see any approaching I switched mine off).
If only I could drive in Vic Park without being blinded by high beams - this week 2 taxi drivers and 3 cars all using highs' towards and after passing me - idiots.

[MatsHolden]

I think I have seen cops with them on once this year - 25C 3pm, fine sunny day.
Hmm... also have seen police... not indicating on dual carriageway (turning right), ignoring lane markings at traffic lights (right hand-only turn), round abouts (ie turning right from the left lane), you name it - I have seen it.
Fogs? well using them on a fine night at 7-8pm on a twisty 4 lane road like Mountsbay is silly.
I have used fogs I think 3 times in 3 years in Perth (fog one morning, thick smoke twice) - I have used them rarely down south on Sue's Road to discourage roos - the sideways light beam turns them away, but this is only at dusk and no vehicles on the road (if I see any approaching I switched mine off).
If only I could drive in Vic Park without being blinded by high beams - this week 2 taxi drivers and 3 cars all using highs' towards and after passing me - idiots.

Yeh, it's amazing what you see cops do, perks of the job i guess lol. On the people with high beam, it's so annoying just how ignorant some people are.

[EL BURITO]

Yeh, it's amazing what you see cops do, perks of the job i guess lol. On the people with high beam, it's so annoying just how ignorant some people are.

Uni and tafe are on the same campus as the WA Police accadamy as well as it being within 2 min of work and Joondalup cop shop. Its amaising wat u see.

[blackSRi]

My mum always said be careful on the road - other drivers can be great or very very bad - "imagine the dumbest kid you knew who dropped out of high school... with a drivers' license."

[typetnt]

My mum always said be careful on the road - other drivers can be great or very very bad - "imagine the dumbest kid you knew who dropped out of high school... with a drivers' license."

That's pretty good advice!

[oneightoo]

does it really matter if the fog lights are on?? i see cars with them on all the time.. big deal, it's not like they're high beams or anything.. good on em for lowering the demerit points..

[stevedee3]

It's illegal in Victoria too, to have foglights on when there is no poor conditions (Rain/fog/smoke) but the Police don't enforce it here. I even see the Police driving around with them on in fine conditions. lolBut only for rear foglights:

The driver of a vehicle fitted with a rear fog light must not operate the fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.The Victorian road rules are silent on the use of front fog lights. This is about the closest they come to saying anything about front fog lights:

Also, a driver driving during the day in fog, or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility, may drive without the headlights of the driver’s vehicle operating if the vehicle is fitted with front fog lights and those lights are operating effectively and are clearly visible.These quotes come from http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/randl/part_13.pdf

[btm]

It's interesting - demerits for "Using fog lights inappropriately" drop and speeding demerits rise.
When i was in WA 2 weeks ago we got booked twice (never me driving)

Once doing 127 km/h the other 124 km/h

both fines were only $100 and 1 demerit point :eek: :eek: :eek:

that's crazy!! if it was NSW you would have lost most of your license and had to fork out over $500!!

I think WA should increase their fines and number of demerit points lost for speeding offences. With the current figures, it almost pays to speed...

[MatsHolden]

does it really matter if the fog lights are on?? i see cars with them on all the time.. big deal, it's not like they're high beams or anything.. good on em for lowering the demerit points..

I agree 182, foglights don't worry me.

[btm]

On the other hand it's good to see more 'points for failing to keep left - a big problem in Perth - drivers here just don't keep left!
You're right! This annoyed the crap out of me!! They just don't move over.... very very annoying

[MatsHolden]

But only for rear foglights:
The Victorian road rules are silent on the use of front fog lights. This is about the closest they come to saying anything about front fog lights:
These quotes come from http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/randl/part_13.pdf

Hmm that's interesting, reason i thought it was illegal was because I was told by a Police Officer. I had foglights on in the car I was driving and he said he could book me for that if he wanted to.

[EL BURITO]

In my opinion the speed limit on the long open roads of WA should be roved to unrestricted or 130kmh

I am not talking about the city roads or the roads to margerat river where there is alot of traffic, i am talking about the roads going from beond Gero.
As fitigue is a mojor comtributing factor to crashs on these streaches of raod..

I have been pulled up on these strechs of road twice. each time going over the speed limit. let off each time cos of the fact there is NO ONE else on the raod.



As for rear fog lights all those excel drivers need to be pulled up on it

[btm]

In my opinion the speed limit on the long open roads of WA should be roved to unrestricted or 130kmh

I am not talking about the city roads or the roads to margerat river where there is alot of traffic, i am talking about the roads going from beond Gero.
As fitigue is a mojor comtributing factor to crashs on these streaches of raod..

I have been pulled up on these strechs of road twice. each time going over the speed limit. let off each time cos of the fact there is NO ONE else on the raod.
agreed - i drove from uluru to perth via kalgoorlie and hardly saw a car the whole way!

and this is where we got booked. about an hour or so out of kalgoorlie in the middle of friggin no where!!

[blackSRi]

In my opinion the speed limit on the long open roads of WA should be roved to unrestricted or 130kmh

I have been pulled up on these strechs of road twice. each time going over the speed limit. let off each time cos of the fact there is NO ONE else on the raod.


Interesting, but if you look at the Office of Road Safety, they have to work out how to protect you from your own behaviour (and society too I guess), and there are major costs to society both in suffering and economic side.

- imagine if you crash in a remote place, without any cars passing and without help - could be a nasty way to go (this has happened a number of times in WA down south and remote areas up north), anything can happen when you are driving at speed - kangaroos hopping out, rubbish on the road, misjudging a corner etc. Public roads are definitely not "controlled conditions" as on a race track (and even they have roo probs at Mt Panorama).

Besides, rural crashes are more expensive - taxing regional hospitals and ambo services or requiring expensive helicopter or plane air lifts back to major hospitals Perth/Bunbury etc) and traumatic - high speed crashes are very very bad and messy and have an affect on anyone involved - I saw this myself, just in December '05 in country Vic.

Quote from the ORS website:
"Road Safety Strategy. The strategy is based on the vision of the State Government and the Road Safety Council of WA to eliminate road crashes as a major cause of death and serious injury."

They think (nearly) "by any means necissary".

Look there's ways to do it without making everyone drive everywhere at 30km/hr, safer roads, better cars, driver education all need to be done, but fines and demerits are knee-jerk and only stop or dissuade some types of bad/poor/stupid behaviour - like for example they didn't deter some kid who was depressed about breaking up with his girlfriend from drinking himself stupid then deliberately running red lights and give ways signs at speed so he could die - (unfortunately for my work colleague and his mum, he totaled their car and walked away without a scratch leaving my colleagues' mum close to death, both my colleague and his mum in intensive care and with lasting injuries and pain - lucky they weren't killed).

[stevedee3]

As for rear fog lights all those excel drivers need to be pulled up on itThat must be a nationwide problem; it's very common here to see Hyundai Excel's with their rear fog light on. On the Vectras you have to manually put the rear fog light on every time you turn the lights on - does anyone know how the switching for Excel rear fog lights works?

[oneightoo]

one of my ex's had an excel, i think it has a button for it.. cant remember to be honest..

[EL BURITO]

That must be a notionwide problem; it's very common here to see Hyundai Excel's with their rear fog light on. On the Vectras you have to manually put the rear fog light on every time you turn the lights on - does anyone know how the switching for Excel rear fog lights works?

Do u think any one would wont to admit to driving one.



Mr T will know i think

[blackSRi]

I'll ask my brother - he drives one (they were cheap at the time).

[JasonGilholme]

I'll ask my brother - he drives one (they were cheap at the time).

They're cheap all the time!!!! lol

Theres a bit of a "wording" difference when it comes to this topic.

You can get pulled over and call them "driving lights" and nothin will happen but if you say anything to do with "foggies, foglights" etc. They'll fine the **** out of you.

Just say they're driving lights. I believe thats what they're sold as anyway.

Eitherway, its not like they're pointing up into your rear view mirror, they're only lighting up the road.

[EL BURITO]

the issue i think they are concered about is the how they light up the arears on ither side of the vehical a lot more.

[blackSRi]

Yeah, it's the side-dazzle and they are extremely bright.

[jerrypufflewell]

Back to the Excels :P

Most of them just don't know the light is there. There is a push-switch to the RHS of the steering column somewhere...
I have never owned one but I had to find the switch for one of my friends one night because he was hurting my eyes :(

Speaking of hurting eyes I am pretty sure just about every >VT SS commodore owner drives with their foglights on all the time, but that doesn't piss me off as much as ppl driving with driving lights on all the time (implying they are not legally installed :P), speaking of such there was a Hilux with HIDs following me most of the way home the other night- boy did that hurt the eyes! lol

[cyclonic]

Interesting points there guys.
Whilst i'm not too thrilled about the raise in fines (i'd prefer to see the demerits doubled myself) I can understand the reasoning for it.
I myself was recently pulled over for 100 in an 80 zone. At least it was a cop booking me and not a bloody speed camera!

The thing that ****s me here is drivers staying in the right hand lane. That is one rule that needs to be STRICTLY enforced and have whopping big fines attatched. The amount of times i've driven past drivers and tapped on my mirrors whilst looking at them...

[MatsHolden]

Yeh it amazes me the amount of people that don't use their mirrors. Staying in the right hand lane, cutting you off, and the worst one of all is not getting out of the way of emergency vehicles; that just is beyond me how people just sit there in the way, all could be avoided if they just use the mirrors. Pure ignorance.

[EL BURITO]

Bump. WA drives this is worth reviewing

[Shaun]

I think I have seen cops with them on once this year - 25C 3pm, fine sunny day.
Hmm... also have seen police... not indicating on dual carriageway (turning right), ignoring lane markings at traffic lights (right hand-only turn), round abouts (ie turning right from the left lane), you name it - I have seen it.
Fogs? well using them on a fine night at 7-8pm on a twisty 4 lane road like Mountsbay is silly.
I have used fogs I think 3 times in 3 years in Perth (fog one morning, thick smoke twice) - I have used them rarely down south on Sue's Road to discourage roos - the sideways light beam turns them away, but this is only at dusk and no vehicles on the road (if I see any approaching I switched mine off).
If only I could drive in Vic Park without being blinded by high beams - this week 2 taxi drivers and 3 cars all using highs' towards and after passing me - idiots.


One thing to remember Guys. "Who is Policing the Police"

[MatsHolden]

One thing to remember Guys. "Who is Policing the Police"

Perks of the job. lol

[jsantos]

I sent a message a while ago to the cops to question the front driving lights as i had read the document the R.T.A uses, and it in no way specifically mentions front fog lights.

They came back with the quote of "using or allowing to be used any light that dazzles another driver"

I personally think it's B\S because front fog lights are less luminous then HID lights and therefore are less likley to dazzle another road user then the legal HID lights.

Thats my 2c's on the subject.

[MatsHolden]

I personally think it's B\S because front fog lights are less luminous then HID lights and therefore are less likley to dazzle another road user then the legal HID lights.

Thats my 2c's on the subject.

Depends how they are directed... there are some shockingly aimed foglights out there.

[jerrypufflewell]

I sent a message a while ago to the cops to question the front driving lights as i had read the document the R.T.A uses, and it in no way specifically mentions front fog lights.

They came back with the quote of "using or allowing to be used any light that dazzles another driver"

I personally think it's B\S because front fog lights are less luminous then HID lights and therefore are less likley to dazzle another road user then the legal HID lights.

Thats my 2c's on the subject.

Legal HID lights should not dazzle, as they need to be auto-levelling and have lense cleaners- not to mention be aimed correctly. Unfortunately quite a few HID setups out there are not installed legally.
As for foglights, when they are tested the intention is for them to be used in instances where the ordinary headlights are insufficient, i.e fog & heavy rain. Thus when the air is clear they are unnecessary and perhaps, as the police quoted to you, dazzling.

Whether you're driving on a clear night with badly aimed headlights, manual HIDs or fogs, you're still breaking the law and causing unnecessary discomfort to those doing the right thing- and you therefore piss me off :clap:

[EL BURITO]

i would argue thou that fogs aimed below the main beam of the head light are not dazzerling to other road users and light up the side of the road witch is a requirment when there are roos all over the road side

[jerrypufflewell]

i would argue thou that fogs aimed below the main beam of the head light are not dazzerling to other road users and light up the side of the road witch is a requirment when there are roos all over the road side

Drive slower :p

And imo if you are near another car you are less likely to hit a roo anyway, and if you aren't near another car that's what driving lights are for.

[Wraith]

mmmmm, the fog light debacle is an interesting one.

I've now owned numerous types of cars with factory fitted foggies (including the Astra) and in all cases, the beams on these is very, very low in terms of beam angle, it only projects light about 10 feet or so in front of the car and mainly 'brightens up' the road immediately ahead of the car - should not cause dazzling to oncoming traffic, except maybe on an uphill road.

I use my foggies at dusk, while there is still daylight around, just until it gets totally dark, then switch over to the headlights :)

[blackSRi]

Bump. WA drives this is worth reviewing
Yep, got done tonight at City Beach in the Evo - $250 + 3 demerits :( :(
Just cruising , not flogging it - just watch out!

[nicecar]

In my opinion the speed limit on the long open roads of WA should be roved to unrestricted or 130kmh

EL Burito for Prime Minister :)

Sh*t blackSRi, what did you get done for?

[EL BURITO]

Yep, got done tonight at City Beach in the Evo - $250 + 3 demerits :( :(
Just cruising , not flogging it - just watch out!
oo nasty 20+. that sucks man