Daewoo Barina Breaks records!!!

[Red AH SRI T]

Pundits confounded as GMH hatches a record
The Sun-Herald
Tuesday February 21 2006

Critics of the Korean-built $12,990 Barina have got it wrong, JOSHUA DOWLING writes.


http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/02/21/21pund_leadimage.jpg


The cut-price South Korean-made Holden Barina - which is, in fact, a Daewoo Kalos - is the most popular Barina of all time.

The revised version of Holden's baby hatch has been roundly criticised by the Australian motoring press since it went on sale late last year, replacing the award-winning Barina sourced from Holden's German affiliate, Opel.

But the Korean Barina's starting price of just $12,990 has seen Holden record the best month of sales in the 21-year history of the Barina name.

Holden sold almost 1400 Barinas nationwide in January figures from the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries show - an increase of 130 per cent compared with the corresponding month last year.


The sales performance was enough to elevate the Barina to third place in the light-car sales race behind the Hyundai Getz and Toyota Yaris.

Some industry analysts predicted the cheap and cheerful Barina might take some of the polish off Holden's image, which had been gaining a strong reputation in the small- and medium-car market thanks to a range of Opel-sourced models, including the Barina and Astra.

But buyers have proven the experts wrong and voted with their wallets.

Holden spokeswoman Kate Holehouse said the company was expecting a negative reaction to the Korean Barina from some industry analysts, but had been vindicated by the sales results.

"We were certainly aware that not everyone would approve . . . but I don't think customers base their buying decisions on media reports alone," she said. "They test drive it, they shop around, they do their research. We have had some positive media reports, too."

Ms Holehouse said buyers cared more about the price than where a car was made.

"I think people appreciate that it's a value car and it's great for the price. There is certainly a market for a car like this."
The new Barina is a revised version of the Daewoo Kalos, a model that was introduced here about two years ago.

Holden - which, with other General Motors divisions, owns Daewoo - made some minor changes to the car, stuck Holden badges on it and reintroduced the model late last year.

Its Korean origins are not a problem for small-car buyers, Ms Holehouse said.
"People trust Holden and we've 'Holden-ised' the car, and that gives it the seal of approval," she said. "Buyers are typically 18 to 20 years old and it's their first car, so [country of origin] is not as important [as it may to be to buyers of more expensive cars]."

Ms Holehouse said Holden expected the Barina to sell well, but it went better than planned: "We've been quite confident about this car all along, but it's exceeded our initial sales forecast."

The January results for the Barina include the previous model, which accounted for 30 per cent of sales. But taking this into account, it was still a record month and the Barina is poised to have its best year ever.

If sales continue at the present rate - and January sales are customarily lower than other months - Holden is on track to sell in excess of 16,000 Barinas. Its previous record was 9675, set last year.

The Barina badge has appeared on three different types of cars over the brand's 21-year history in Australia.

The first Barina, introduced in 1985, was a rebadged Suzuki Swift. In 1994 Holden switched from the Swift to the Opel-sourced Corsa.

In October last year, the maker switched to the Daewoo Kalos model.

Source: The Sun-Herald

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/02/21/21pund_leadimage__400x282.jpg

[BassyAstra]

Whyd you have to give me that dissapointing news.

[blackSRi]

Sounds like Daewoo is now entrenched in Oz - bye bye Opels...

[MiksOpel]

We might see some Barina's being deawooised and a new club opening,

The Deawoaus, where all the Deawos of Australia meet.
Who knows, maybe they might even opelise their Deawo's???
Now that could get interesting!

[blackSRi]

Is it even possible? I mean will Opel badges fit?
Besides why would you want to chuck an Opel badge on an non-Opel?
You might as well get a Buick badge and sling it on... :confused: ;)

Debadge I say... anyone here got a Daewoo Barina yet?

[JasonGilholme]

oh well. Doesn't bother me. Mitsubishi here i come.

[Mr T]

How many of these buyers actually know that they are built by Daewoo...

I mean, Barina has had a fantastic reputation for years, now Barina is 12,990...do people think that it is the same car...???

I wonder...!!!

[JasonGilholme]

nah man

To alot of people a car is a car. As long as it has four wheels and goes it will do.

[Red AH SRI T]

I'm waiting to see how long it takes for a Chevy badge Barina to pop up!!!

[stevedee3]

Debadge I say... anyone here got a Daewoo Barina yet?My Vectra CDXi is having some faults looked at, and I've been loaned a Daewoo Barina.

Initial comments:
The seats provide no support whatsoever. You feel like you'll fall off the side when going around a corner.
You can't shut the windows after you turn the ignition off.
The radio forgets what volume you had it set at when you turn it off.
The warning lights (ABS, airbag, engine management) can't be seen in sunlight.I've never driven the Opel Barina/Corsa so I can't compare the two. But I certainly prefer my Vectra...

I guess for $13k it's not too bad, but I don't think I'd buy one.

[beep beep sri]

we will just have to give it time and hopefully GMH lands flat on there a$$ and they all start breaking down. i would never ever buy a new beepbeep now, but i guess its like hyundai they where once looked down on as cheap transport and now look at them they are geting better and better and they are still cheap.

[CJB]

I'm waiting to see how long it takes for a Chevy badge Barina to pop up!!!
I'd be a numbnut and do that :p just like with the Cruze ;) hahaha

[180HOA]

I don't think most buyers in the $15k market really care about the origin or heritage of the car. Most would be chasing as many features as they can get for their $$$. I'll be very surprised if the Daewoo-sourced Barina gets a reputation as a 'bad' car. There's nothing particularly high-tech or expensive required to make a car that's reliable - and that's the main thing most laymen use to judge how good a car is. Compared to the Euro-sourced Barina, the money, in my guess, has been cut from areas like refinement and safety-engineering. But thankfully, most people probably won't ever find out what they're missing out on in order to save a few $.

[blueraven]

its all about price....simple as that. new is new..thats what most people buying these little cars must be thinking.

as much as i hate them if they sold commodoores for 15k i might buy one...

*ugh i feel dirty and must go wash myself in petrol*

[pred8r]

its all about price....simple as that. new is new..thats what most people buying these little cars must be thinking.

as much as i hate them if they sold commodoores for 15k i might buy one...

*ugh i feel dirty and must go wash myself in petrol*

Lada niva?

Fiat Nikki (under $10k fwir)

Their lack of backup would have Killed them, not their price

Oh and crap cars, except for the 'Brock' Lada :P

[oneightoo]

it's still looks nowhere near as good as the opel..

[Nem]

I still think we have to wait a (couple of) year(s) until they start falling apart. A new car is pretty much always great while its new.

[CJB]

here is a slightly off topic question, but about the new barina...

my insurance policy says if I write my car off before the 2 year mark, they replace it with a brand new one... my car is 17 months old - and with my driving history, could I find myself in one of the new barina's should the unthinkable happen? :eek: ??? hahahaha

[SRi_1]

NOOOOOO!!! Crispy i dun wannna c ya rims on that Korean thing...."thing" it is...... lol anyway i hope they just give u the money

touchwood

[CJB]

NOOOOOO!!! Crispy i dun wannna c ya rims on that Korean thing...."thing" it is...... lol anyway i hope they just give u the money

touchwood
ahh well hasn't happened yet - I just wondered if it thats the procedure... and I would also be asking for a little cash back :p this version is about $500 (there abouts) cheaper then what I paid ... hahaha.

Dont worry, if the car is written off, I would pretty much expect the wheels to be written off as well. :)

P.S - I touch 'wood' every day ;)

[EL BURITO]

your new wheels will fix on the HBD right the SRI rims are a option. There are still a few XC's at the dealers (not many thou). Bet u would get cash though seeing the big difference and the fact they would probly try to wiggle out of a new car some how

[oneightoo]

crispy you would have to assume that if your insurance policy states that your car will be replaced with a new "Barina" than you will get a new "Barina".. where the car was built is of no concern to an insurance company..

the moral to the story..... dont write your car off..

[01CDsedan]

Only two things to say:

1. I told you so, and;
2. Get over it :)

[Red AH SRI T]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/FCE3A3C27737901BCA25711D00839DB0/$file/2006[1].02.23_Holden_Barina.jpg

[CJB]

hahahaha that pic is funny.

how come the sedan version looks nothing like the hatch? Not even the front grille/headlights are the same.

[Red AH SRI T]

because the Sedan is an updated version, also has a wider rear track and better interior, all australian designed

[btm]

I still think we have to wait a (couple of) year(s) until they start falling apart. A new car is pretty much always great while its new.
agreed - the bad stories/reviews/comments will not come for a year or two probably

[blackSRi]

agreed - the bad stories/reviews/comments will not come for a year or two probably

Style over safety for Barina buyers


http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5111800,00.jpg


21 February 2006


Graham Smith

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,18220727-21822,00.html

[GeeeAus]

I think it's great. The Barina is steaming away. My father in law will be selling them like hotcakes no doubt.....

I happy.

:-)

[RapidSRi]

Puss on wheels

[oneightoo]

i wonder how long it will take before the barina becomes available only in sedan and eventually becomes a medium sized car.. it just keeps getting bigger!

p.s. it's still rubbish no matter how many are sold..

[CJB]

i wonder how long it will take before the barina becomes available only in sedan and eventually becomes a medium sized car.. it just keeps getting bigger!

p.s. it's still rubbish no matter how many are sold..
I have heard that speech before, but not in reference to cars :p

Like the Pajero, when that new model came out I thought it was huge...

It kinda reminds me how the Corolla use to be Toyota's small car didn't it? When it first came out? Now it's a medium sized car.

Perhaps the Barina could replace the Viva???

There's an idea, pi$$ the Viva off, keep the Korean Barina in where it is, and import the Opel Corsa in the Viva spot :p I know I know, will never happen.

[GeeeAus]

I don't think that something, which sells “SO WELL”, can really be called rubbish, it’s convincing enough for the punters. And what they do determines the history books pages.

A failure and rubbish, it will not be.

At $12,990 it can last 3 or 4 years and be thrown away without making people frown.

The planet will do better because the number of newer vehicles with tight new engines that have better emission controls will shift into affordability. People will buy new Barinas, with new donks because it’s competitive to do so. The air quality will likely improve over time. Now all we need to do is recycle all the old stuff and the Barina and cars like it will become cheaper and more prevalent.

A government subsidy to cover recycling old vehicles would be a great initiative.

Go cheap Barina, people are seeing the sense. Thank goodness there are lots of people who don’t care its' a Daewoo, finally the right thing is being done, even if for the wrong reasons.

Can’t say I’d have an old Corsa regardless of the better drive if offers. Not when for what seems like a paltry amount, I can have a “NEW” Daewoo. That word means something “NEW”…….

I think the only real tragedy about this new Barina is it will cause a plummet in the resale value of the Opel sourced model. At best a Corsa is old news now, so they are all considered to be used cars, that will translate into declining market values and cheaper prices.

I’m not against Opel, but I’m pleased with Daewoo and Holden for doing something about the car situation here. The times are a changing. Get on the bandwagon, or get out of the way.

GeeeAus

[oneightoo]

thats your opinion, your entitled to it..

mine is.. the car stinks.. looks cheap.. the previous model looked far more classier.. built cheap.. i dont care how much cheaper it is.. it's still rubbish.. and rubbish it will remain..

[CJB]

That's the thing...

You can't disguise trash and hope it will be seen as class.

[oneightoo]

a good salesmen will sell ice to eskimo's if the price is cheap enough..

you get what you pay for.. if you wanna buy a brand new $13k car then good luck to you.. just dont expect long term reliability from it..

[CJB]

a good salesmen will sell ice to eskimo's if the price is cheap enough..

you get what you pay for.. if you wanna buy a brand new $13k car then good luck to you.. just dont expect long term reliability from it..
I bought my Opel Barina at $13,490... :eek: and so far so good... minus the reverse sensor, the bodgey paint job from factory.

I could see Blackie selling Ice to eskimo's... or selling thongs to people in the arctic. :)

[GeeeAus]

I bought my Opel Barina at $13,490... :eek: and so far so good... minus the reverse sensor, the bodgey paint job from factory.

I could see Blackie selling Ice to eskimo's... or selling thongs to people in the arctic. :)

Thats just it Kyle. Minus a reverse sensor. You mean, you've had a warranty issue too. Your car failed to deliver the uncompromised reliability as befitting a new car.

The Opel models are themselves riddled with various annoying woes. Not bad cars, just cars with problems, Daewoo's are based on most of the same core technologies as Opels. They are themselves Opel designs that are from previous generations of vehicles. In some ways, like engine, they are in trend with modern Opels.

They are cheaper and may or may not have issues that need addressing under warranty. Opels sure have, so it’s a safe bet being Opel based.

How many Kms had you done when the reverse sensor failed. Do you know other Opel drivers who've had issues addressed under warranty..... Bet you do......

I've had issues with my Vectra, a B with C20SEL. The newer ZC ones have timing chain issues. The Astra has wiring looms that burn out/catch fire. Tyre wear issues seem common to all Opels in the small/medium category. Apart from look, feel and sheer handling finesse, which are a given. How is the Daewoo any worse.....

We speak of poor quality and reliability and yet we all own cars that have had their own share of lukewarm press for quality/reliability issues. Not everybody has issues, but enough do.

Our Camira is supposed to be a dud, we put spanner to it less often than our Vectra B, and it’s cheaper when we do. Hows that, Opel auto outdone by an Australian lemon..... Which is itself an older Opel design, that was bought up and successfully sold as a Daewoo after we Australians finished with it.

GeeeAus

[180HOA]

I don't think that something, which sells “SO WELL”, can really be called rubbish, it’s convincing enough for the punters. And what they do determines the history books pages.

A failure and rubbish, it will not be.

At $12,990 it can last 3 or 4 years and be thrown away without making people frown.

The planet will do better because the number of newer vehicles with tight new engines that have better emission controls will shift into affordability. People will buy new Barinas, with new donks because it’s competitive to do so. The air quality will likely improve over time. Now all we need to do is recycle all the old stuff and the Barina and cars like it will become cheaper and more prevalent.

A government subsidy to cover recycling old vehicles would be a great initiative.

Go cheap Barina, people are seeing the sense. Thank goodness there are lots of people who don’t care its' a Daewoo, finally the right thing is being done, even if for the wrong reasons.

Can’t say I’d have an old Corsa regardless of the better drive if offers. Not when for what seems like a paltry amount, I can have a “NEW” Daewoo. That word means something “NEW”…….

I think the only real tragedy about this new Barina is it will cause a plummet in the resale value of the Opel sourced model. At best a Corsa is old news now, so they are all considered to be used cars, that will translate into declining market values and cheaper prices.

I’m not against Opel, but I’m pleased with Daewoo and Holden for doing something about the car situation here. The times are a changing. Get on the bandwagon, or get out of the way.

GeeeAus

While I don't knock the Daewoo-sourced Barina for what it is (cheap), I think you're trying to elevate it above it's rightful place in the world...

Sure, on paper it looks like great value, but it is not a step forward for holden or the car industry. To achieve that low, low price point, active and passive safety standards have been neglected, along with other less significant aspects of engineering. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that more people will be injured and/or die in these things than would be the case had a European-sourced Barina continued. How do you measure the cost to the community of that? Like cigarettes, perhaps cars with poor safety standards should be taxed more highly to offset their greater cost to the community. This would be the true COST of these things (as opposed to the price you pay to buy one).

Selling more cars is NOT a way to improve air quality. Especially when it's 2nd rate, hand-me-down technology being used because it's cheap. You also need to consider the probablility that the Korean factories building the things wouldn't exactly be bastions of ecological sustainability.

As for recycling the things - building anything with the intent of it ultimately being recycled is not easy and takes careful thought and planning at the design stage. You ain't going to see that happen for $12,990. Not when they could instead make an MP3 player standard equipment. You also aren't going to see them built USING recycled materials, either.

And what bandwagon are you suggesting we join? The one heading for lower standards of living? Cos that's what happens when you trade with poorer countries. They get richer. You get poorer.


Sure, people buy them, in ignorance of these issues (or despite them), because they're cheap. But please don't try and pass them off as any sort of... revolution.

[oneightoo]

well said..

[CJB]

My reverse sensor switch (which stopped my reverse lights working) went at about 28,000kms.

The car has 52,000kms at the moment, and so far no problems.

All cars have their issues, it's how you care for them, make sure they are serviced etc.



We should just agree on Holden financially have a winner, but cosmetically and safety wise they have a dud :)

[01CDsedan]

To achieve that low, low price point, active and passive safety standards have been neglected, along with other less significant aspects of engineering. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that more people will be injured and/or die in these things than would be the case had a European-sourced Barina continued.

On the active safety front, the Korean Barina comes with the option of ABS whereas you couldn't get it on any Opel Barina other than the SRi. That's one for the Daewoo car right there. Do we have comparable NCAP results for the two cars to compare other aspects?


And what bandwagon are you suggesting we join? The one heading for lower standards of living? Cos that's what happens when you trade with poorer countries. They get richer. You get poorer.

Back to Macroeconomics 101 for you. Ever heard of the principles of absolute and comparitive advantage? You import what you're not good at making, and make and export that which you are good at making. Australia would be terrible at making cheap small cars, so we don't do it. Korea is good at it. So we import our cheap small cars from Korea and use our economic capacity to do things we are good at.

I suppose the other option would be for Holden to design, develop and manufacture a new Barina in Australia and wait for the punters to queue around the block, waiting to slap down their $25k and drive away in one.

[180HOA]

Active safety doesn't just mean ABS brakes. It includes the whole dynamic character of the vehicle, and the general consensus is that Daewoo's are inferior to Opels in that respect. Take a swerve-and-recover scenario, for example - I'd prefer to be in an Opel-sourced car over an equivalent Daewoo sourced car any day. As for crash testing - ANCAP results for the Opel Barina (XC) are 82% (4 stars). The Daewoo Kalos was 48% (3 stars) on the same scale. I don't expect that gap was closed very much by the 'Holdenisation' process.

Having said all that, if it turns out the 'new' Barina outperforms the Opel in crash testing, I'll eat some of my words.

And yes, I'm aware of the concept of comparative advantage. Yes, it is the reason Holden import Daewoo's and whack Barina badges on them, and it's also the reason they import/ed Opels. But my point was merely the fact that the economy is a great leveller between two trading countries. I also never suggested Holden should manufacture small cars here. My point was, in a nutshell, that the only thing going for the Daewoo-sourced cars are that they are cheap and should not be made out to be anything other than that. In all or most other respects they are a step backwards.

[bill142]

That's the thing...

You can't disguise trash and hope it will be seen as class.

Apparently you can. This car might be a heap of ****, and those with half a brain know that. But the figures speak for themselves.

[Red AH SRI T]

Let the results speak for themselves!!

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/small_family_cars/car_250_2006/Chevrolet%20Aveo%20Datasheet%202.pdf

[01CDsedan]

So in the wash-up, if you crash in your Korean Barina you'll be worse off than in your Euro Barina, and you might have had a better chance at avoiding the accident in the first place if the Euro Barina's handling came into play, unless you needed to stop in a hurry, in which case you would have been better off in your Korean Barina (assuming you ordered the ABS option, which you probably didn't because you're shopping at the low end of the market).

Well, that clears up...not much. The answer is probably to buy a better car in the first place. TS Astras are good buying on the low-km used market these days...

Having said that, when my fiancee and I were looking for a new mini-car last year, if the Euro Barina had an ABS option we'd have one in the garage today.

Anyhoo, the Korean Barina is doing exactly what it was intended to do, which is to sell in large volumes to people who want a new car at a rock bottom price. Profits all round.

[180HOA]

...unless you needed to stop in a hurry, in which case you would have been better off in your Korean Barina (assuming you ordered the ABS option, which you probably didn't because you're shopping at the low end of the market).

Stopping distance and ABS aren't necessarily related... ABS is about control of the vehicle, not braking power. As a hypothetical - do you think an SRiT with the ABS disabled would have inferior stopping ability to a Daewoo Barina? Of course not - because it's about braking hardware and tyre specs - so you can't assume a Daewoo with ABS will be able to stop better than an Opel without ABS.

[blackSRi]

Stopping distance and ABS aren't necessarily related... ABS is about control of the vehicle, not braking power. As a hypothetical - do you think an SRiT with the ABS disabled would have inferior stopping ability to a Daewoo Barina? Of course not - because it's about braking hardware and tyre specs - so you can't assume a Daewoo with ABS will be able to stop better than an Opel without ABS.

But ABS can significantly reduce stopping distances on bitumen by improving traction and avoiding skid - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Tyres are very important, you are correct, ABS still requires decent tyres and tread.

[pred8r]

Having said all that, if it turns out the 'new' Barina outperforms the Opel in crash testing, I'll eat some of my words.

Does that also take into account the airbags?
i remember reading about a car, cant remember which though, jumped 2 stars because the following year it came standard with airbags.....same car though

[01CDsedan]

Stopping distance and ABS aren't necessarily related... ABS is about control of the vehicle, not braking power. As a hypothetical - do you think an SRiT with the ABS disabled would have inferior stopping ability to a Daewoo Barina? Of course not - because it's about braking hardware and tyre specs - so you can't assume a Daewoo with ABS will be able to stop better than an Opel without ABS.

I feel pretty safe in assuming that a Daewoo Barina with ABS will stop shorter than an Opel Barina without it. Hit the brakes hard without ABS and you'll lock up and slide across the pavement, relying on the grip of your tyres against the pavement to stop the car. Hit the brakes hard with ABS and the ABS mitigates the lock-up so your brakes are doing the stopping work, not the tyres. Net result is that you stop in a shorter distance.

It's no coincidence that the two cars in last year's Wheels Active Safety Program test that had the longest stopping distances - Rodeo and Lancer I think - were the only cars on the test without ABS.

Comparing the SRiT with ABS disabled to the Barina with ABS enabled isn't exactly comparing like with like, so I'll leave that one there. I'm talking about two fairly similar cars with similar brakes and tyres. I suspect, though, that the Daewoo with ABS would still stop shorter.

[180HOA]

[QUOTE=01CDsedan]Hit the brakes hard without ABS and you'll lock up and slide across the pavement, relying on the grip of your tyres against the pavement to stop the car. Hit the brakes hard with ABS and the ABS mitigates the lock-up so your brakes are doing the stopping work, not the tyres. Net result is that you stop in a shorter distance.[QUOTE]

Not the tyres???

Tyres are critical. The higher the traction of the tyres, the greater stopping force they can sustain - before they slide. That's why I used an SRiT without ABS vs Daewoo Barina as an example - The difference would largely come down to the better tyres on the SRiT. Further, differences in wheelbase, track, and suspension would impact on stopping ability... So I just don't think it's fair to make assumptions on performance because two cars are 'fairly similar'. On that note, you expected statistics to support crash performance - where are the stopping distances for these cars?

[Red AH SRI T]

Euro NCAP issues wake-up call to industry

26th February, 2006


A wake-up call for the motor industry as Euro NCAP awards two star strike-through for the new Chevrolet Aveo sedan (Holden Barina sedan).

In recent years, the increasing number of cars obtaining top marks for adult occupant protection in Euro NCAP’s tests has led some to demand the introduction of a new benchmark and a sixth star.

However, results announced on Friday by Euro NCAP prove that whilst some manufacturers are forging ahead in their safety development, others still have a long way to go.

Of the six cars tested by Euro NCAP in this recent phase, only two achieved the top five star accolade for occupant protection in Europe ’s leading independent crash tests.

Claes Tingvall, Euro NCAP Chairman said, “I am pleased to see that two of the six cars have achieved a maximum five-star rating for adult occupant protection. It is reassuring that more and more car companies are now placing an emphasis on safety and we are happy to recognise their achievements. However, we want to encourage the highest levels of safety in all cars and, in that regard, there is still work to be done. Euro NCAP will continue to provide consumers with the best information available regarding the safety of new cars.”

The Chevrolet Aveo sedan (Holden Barina sedan) was singled out by Euro NCAP for the unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury to the driver’s chest, which was highlighted by the frontal test. As a result, the car’s final star was struck through. Although the Aveo scored enough points overall to qualify for three stars, Euro NCAP insists on a minimum level of performance in each of the frontal and side impacts. While the Aveo’s performance in side impact was good, it did not score enough points in the frontal test to be given a three-star rating.

Yet, the Chevrolet was not the only car to come under Euro NCAP’s scrutiny. The Kia Cerato obtained poor results in the side impact tests with a high risk of injury to the driver’s chest.

In contrast, the Peugeot 207 joins the growing list of superminis to be awarded the five-star Euro NCAP rating in adult occupant protection, proving that even the smallest of cars can be safe on European roads.

The Alfa Romeo 159 also received impressive results for its adult occupant protection with a five-star Euro NCAP rating. This is the first Alfa Romeo to have received five stars in Euro NCAP’s adult occupant protection test. More worrying were the Alfa Romeo’s pedestrian protection results: only a one-star rating.

Claes Tingvall, Euro NCAP Chairman said, “I am pleased to see that Alfa Romeo achieved the coveted five-star Euro NCAP rating for adult occupant protection, yet I am disappointed that they have not shown the same commitment to pedestrian protection. There is a clear difference emerging between those car manufacturers who are trying to improve the protection their cars offer to pedestrians and those who still see that as a low priority. When cars can achieve creditable results without any advanced technology, there is no excuse for the very low levels of performance we have seen in this phase. There is no reason why cars cannot now provide a high level of protection to all road users.”

Summary of Recent Results

Large family cars:

Alfa Romeo 159
Occupant Protection: 5 stars
Child Protection: 4 stars
Pedestrian Protection: 1 star

Small family cars:

Kia Cerato
Occupant Protection: 3 stars
Child Protection: 3 stars
Pedestrian Protection: 1 star

Chevrolet Aveo (Holden Barina sedan)
Occupant Protection: 2 stars strike through
Child Protection: 3 stars
Pedestrian Protection: 3 stars

Superminis:

Peugeot 207
Occupant Protection: 5 stars
Child Protection: 4 stars
Pedestrian Protection: 3 stars

Suzuki SX4
Occupant Protection: 4 stars
Child Protection: 3 stars
Pedestrian Protection: 3 stars



Note:

1. The “strike through” is used to show that there was a serious risk of “life threatening” injury to one body region. In the case of the Aveo (in Australia, the Aveo is known as the Holden Barina sedan), the driver was at severe risk of injury in a frontal impact test at 64/km/h.

2. Organisations participating in Euro NCAP include the Departments of Transport of Sweden, The Netherlands, France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Catalonia, the FIA Foundation, the Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club (ADAC), Thatcham on behalf of the British Motor Insurers and the International Consumer Research and Testing (ICRT) on behalf of the European consumer organisations. Euro NCAP is also supported by the European Commission.

3. Euro NCAP introduced an additional star rating for child protection in November 2003. This rating is for a combination of a car with specific child seats that have been recommended by the car manufacturer. The combination can now earn up to five stars for child protection. The rating depends on the fitting instructions for the child seats, the car’s ability to accommodate them safely and their performance in front and side impact tests. However, there are important limitations to this rating, which are:
a. The child protection rating can not be used for the car alone, nor can it be used for the car with a different combination of child seats.
b. The tested child seat alone does not have a child protection rating.
c. The same child seat tested in combination with other cars may give a different child protection rating.

4. With the introduction some time ago of the Child Occupant Protection rating it is important to refer to the Adult Occupant Protection rating correctly. In the past, this has been referred to as the “Overall” or “Occupant” rating. Neither of these is now satisfactory.

5. The front impact test is conducted at 64km/h (40mph) into an offset deformable barrier, the side impact test 50km/h (30mph), the pole test at 29km/h (18mph) and the pedestrian tests at 40km/h (25mph).

6. Comparison between Size Categories: It is essential that no attempt is made to compare the ratings between cars in different segments or mass groups. The frontal crash test aims to measure the performance of the car impacting another car of similar mass. There is no capability to determine what would happen if cars of widely different masses impact each other. It is not primarily the mass difference that has the effect but the effect that mass has on the structural stiffness combined with the relative height of the structures from the ground.

Source: www.nextcar.com.au

[01CDsedan]

Tyres are critical. The higher the traction of the tyres, the greater stopping force they can sustain - before they slide. That's why I used an SRiT without ABS vs Daewoo Barina as an example - The difference would largely come down to the better tyres on the SRiT. Further, differences in wheelbase, track, and suspension would impact on stopping ability... So I just don't think it's fair to make assumptions on performance because two cars are 'fairly similar'. On that note, you expected statistics to support crash performance - where are the stopping distances for these cars?

That is exactly why I said we shouldn't directly compare a modified SRiT (ie, modified to remove its ABS) with an ABS-equipped Barina. It may be that the SRiT's tyres may allow it to stop shorter than the ABS Barina, but then again, it might not be the case at all. Brakes are far better at slowing a car down than tyres are. Without actually running the test, we'll never know. Seeing as no SRiT came without ABS, it's also utterly irrelevant.

However, I stand by my comments about the two Barinas. They are fairly similar in size and weight. Neither has anything radical in terms of suspension design. They both have tyres that are roughly the same width, although the Opel car may have better quality tyres seeing as Korean rubber is generally not much good. So they are fairly similar cars with which we can make a reasonable comparison.

I can't give you data on the stopping distances of those two because no magazine I read measures stopping distances on a regular basis. So I can't help there. All I can do is again point to the Wheels Active Safety Program results which clearly showed that the non-ABS cars had a much longer stopping distance than the ABS cars. I'll dig out those figures next time I visit my parents, as they have all my old magazines.

The point remains, though, that the Daewoo car has one safety feature that the Opel didn't, and that's ABS, although the Opel is clearly superior in almost all other aspects including crash performance as we have seen.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the Daewoo car don't buy it. I don't like it and I don't intend to buy it - it may be cheap and full of kit but it does not meet my standards of what I want in a car. I liked the Corsa but didn't want to put my fiancee into one because of its lack of ABS, so I didn't buy one of those either.

[Red AH SRI T]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/D14C35625DA86BA6CA2571220022CF53


And to add:

ABS is not about making a car stop in a shorter distance, it never was designed to do that and most people wrongly assume that ABS will make u stop in a shorter distance.

ABS is designed to prevent the brakes from locking under extreme brakeing conditions thus giving the driver full contol over the car, ie steering control

[blackSRi]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/D14C35625DA86BA6CA2571220022CF53


And to add:

ABS is not about making a car stop in a shorter distance, it never was designed to do that and most people wrongly assume that ABS will make u stop in a shorter distance.

ABS is designed to prevent the brakes from locking under extreme brakeing conditions thus giving the driver full contol over the car, ie steering control

If you look at Bosch, the history of ABS was about improving braking by reducing skidding. After you fix or address skidding, then you get other gains - better traction from your tyres, manoeuverability, integration with ESP etc.
It just happens that by removing skidding under braking that you also, as a side-effect, may reduce your braking distance. It is a fact that under most road situations on bitumen (wet or dry) in Australia that it will reduce your braking distance (but not on ice, gravel, oil etc).

[180HOA]

That is exactly why I said we shouldn't directly compare a modified SRiT (ie, modified to remove its ABS) with an ABS-equipped Barina. It may be that the SRiT's tyres may allow it to stop shorter than the ABS Barina, but then again, it might not be the case at all. Brakes are far better at slowing a car down than tyres are.

Sorry, but I just can't follow your logic here. In any car I've driven (and I assume pretty much any car, full stop), when you apply full braking force, one of two things happens:
1. Wheels lock and car slides.
2. ABS activates (because the wheels were about to lock).

The reason for the wheels locking and the car sliding (or ABS activating) is because the grip of tyres on the road surface has failed. To my logic, this means that the tyres are the first element of the braking equation that fails. In other words, the tyres lose grip of the road well before the brake pads lose grip of the discs.

Hypothetically, using the SRiT v Daewoo Barina scenario (cos I know how much you love that example - only this time I've had the ABS fixed) - I'm going to put the Daewoo's wheels and tyres on my SRiT then attempt an emergency stop. It's going to be a terrible experience, because despite the fact the SRiT has fairly respectable rotors and pads, they're handicapped by the traction limits of the sh1tty tyres it's now wearing. In fact, I expect it'll now take longer to stop than a Daewoo Barina would because the SRiT has more weight to pull up. And not a thing has changed other than the tyres.

I just don't follow why it is you say brakes are 'better' at slowing a car down than tyres?

[01CDsedan]

Sorry, but I just can't follow your logic here. In any car I've driven (and I assume pretty much any car, full stop), when you apply full braking force, one of two things happens:
1. Wheels lock and car slides.
2. ABS activates (because the wheels were about to lock).

The reason for the wheels locking and the car sliding (or ABS activating) is because the grip of tyres on the road surface has failed. To my logic, this means that the tyres are the first element of the braking equation that fails. In other words, the tyres lose grip of the road well before the brake pads lose grip of the discs.

No argument from me there. Which is why, as I have said repeatedly, when we are comparing two cars with similar tyres and similar brakes but one has ABS - such as, oh I dunno, pick two random examples, the Daewoo Kalos and the Opel Corsa - the ABS equipped one ought to pull up in a shorter distance because the ABS overcomes the problem of brakes locking up.


Hypothetically, using the SRiT v Daewoo Barina scenario (cos I know how much you love that example - only this time I've had the ABS fixed) - I'm going to put the Daewoo's wheels and tyres on my SRiT then attempt an emergency stop. It's going to be a terrible experience, because despite the fact the SRiT has fairly respectable rotors and pads, they're handicapped by the traction limits of the sh1tty tyres it's now wearing. In fact, I expect it'll now take longer to stop than a Daewoo Barina would because the SRiT has more weight to pull up. And not a thing has changed other than the tyres.

I have repeatedly said that's not a valid comparison, because we are not comparing apples with apples. Clearly the SRiT's bigger and better tyres will give it greater grip than a Barina because the Barina has bad tyres. That is not in dispute. I am talking about two similar cars, your comparison has two very different cars in it, and the results of what would happen in an ABS Barina vs non-ABS SRiT are not clear until someone tries it out. I don't think I have ever tried to argue that good tyres don't help stopping performance - indeed, they are critical to it, as are aspects of brake design.


I just don't follow why it is you say brakes are 'better' at slowing a car down than tyres?

Because the brakes are designed and constructed for exactly that purpose. If tyres were the be all and end all of stopping then we all wouldn't have ABS and would simply lock up in emergency stops because the tyres were the best way of stopping the car.

We might be talking at cross purposes here. I am talking about a situation where ABS is required. In that situation, I would rather be in the ABS equipped car every time because tyre grip has failed.

Fundamentally, the original point I was making is that the Daewoo has one safety advantage over the Opel, and that is its ABS brakes. And I would wager that the Daewoo would pull up in shorter distance than the Opel simply because it has ABS where the Opel doesn't, and both have similar brakes and tyres overall. That is all I was saying, and any attempt to introduce other cars to the comparison are completely and utterly irrelevant.

[blackSRi]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere esle but NCAP testing safety results article - http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,18324021-21822,00.html
Barina sedan scores low on safety


http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5115907,00.jpg
Poor result: the Barina sedan has scored only two stars in the latest Euro NCAP test

[maloo97]

Hahah yeh saw that in todays paper.

[btm]

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5115907,00.jpg
OUCH! :eek: looks nasty!!

[Mr T]

Demented Aesthetics Encompassing Woefully Outrageous Origination


nuff said...!!!

[Red AH SRI T]

www.drive.com.au/barinacrashtest

quiet shocking!

and we have people waiting until JUNE to take delivery :eek:

[Vampire]

still not going to touch it

[SRi_1]

lol seem as popular as the Golf GTi lol cos i asked our dealership lol i asked if i would be able to get one for my birthday in aug but they said nop cos they wont be able to get 1 till sept now i think around nov.....>.< hmm
quite scared about the amount of ppl buying that barina....