X-Force are producing extractors for Holden 1.8L!!!! (Read INFO)

[Gildo]

Hey all,

This morning i dropped off my car at Best Mufflers, (www.bestmufflers.com) one of the main distributors and researchers for X-force mufflers in NSW.

Basically what is happening is, they are using my car as the test car for extractors. Once made they will be taken off my car and sent to the overseas factory where a mould will be made for mass production.

X-force has told Best Mufflers that there is a huge demand for these extractors and they will be pushed through manufacturing and should be available for sale in approximatly 3 months.

Once onsale these would fit any of the 1.8L holden range, (astra, barina, tigra....) with an expected peformance increase of roughly 10kw and would sell for around $400 installed.

Anyone who is thinking of custom extractors now, should wait as these will be a bolt on kit and will cost substancially less.

[btm]

did they say anything about 2.2L?

[Nem]

I'd be keen for something for a 2.2 as well.

[beep beep sri]

hmm very interested! but and it is a BUT what about the catalitic converter? its part of the headers standard. im not interested unless the system has the catalytic converter. any if on this would be great

[Gildo]

Well the cat at the moment sits verticle, they are making a 4-2-1 extractors (i think) and then having the cat under the car sitting horrizontal, (yes this is defectable cause the cat is being moved....but how many defect officers would know that the cat was verticle in the 1st place)

[beep beep sri]

aslong as it has a cat im happy but a new cat alone would have to be worth $300 to $400. im guessing the cat has to be purchased seperatly so $400 for extractors plus that again for a cat so $800 all up. even thats not to bad

[astra_city]

Thanks for the info mate.
I got quoted $800-1000 for extractors and about $250 for a new cat a little while back so decided to not go ahead with it, but if they release a bolt-on set for a reasonable price then I'd be interested again.

[woody]

Ass with the rest of the SRi crew.. i'm interested in hearing anything they have planned for the 2.2... anything?? maybe??

[Gildo]

Ill be recieving a call from the shop soon, ill ask them to look into it, and let you guys know

[maloo97]

Sounds Good

[EL BURITO]

intreasting to know for when i get my Astra.

[Nem]

I've read the first cat is only for when the car is warming up. Apparently the cat testing is done when the car is already warm so the first cat is nothing but a restriction. This is apparently how the guys in the UK pass their MOT as its only required on import. Wonder if the regulations are any different here in Au?

hmm very interested! but and it is a BUT what about the catalitic converter? its part of the headers standard. im not interested unless the system has the catalytic converter. any if on this would be great

[beep beep sri]

second cat? as far as i know they only have one cat. ill be corected if im wrong but ive never seen a car with two cats

[Gildo]

i know with the SRi there is only one cat, and as mentioned above its verticle.
This is cause my 1st stage of my exhaust system was pretty much new piping from the cat back (with about 2 ft of stock piping after the cat.)
Now what i will have is all new piping from extractors to rear muffler.
Thus only having 1 cat.

[ultim8DTM5]

Well the cat at the moment sits verticle, they are making a 4-2-1 extractors (i think) and then having the cat under the car sitting horrizontal, (yes this is defectable cause the cat is being moved....but how many defect officers would know that the cat was verticle in the 1st place)


Not many officers, however I'm sure the EPA are a little smarter than your average plod.

[Nem]

I still think some of the SRi's have a pre-cat. Further Info (http://www.bramcote-ridge.org.uk/HowTo/precat-z22.pdf). *shrug* Dunno really. Only what I heard.

i know with the SRi there is only one cat, and as mentioned above its verticle.
This is cause my 1st stage of my exhaust system was pretty much new piping from the cat back (with about 2 ft of stock piping after the cat.)
Now what i will have is all new piping from extractors to rear muffler.
Thus only having 1 cat.

[beep beep sri]

ok thats on a 2.2. maybe the 1.8 is the same if so wheres the second cat ment to be?

[Gildo]

100% there is no second cat.
I went to the shop today to have a look at the progress.

The car hammers with the extractors on. Made an amazing difference!
its getting dyno'd tomorrow hopefully,
1. Full exhaust system (including rear muffler)
2. just rear muffler
3. totally stock
this is done to show all the power increases etc etc

The exhaust shops thinks im running around 100 - 105 kw atw.
will find out soon and ill post up the results

[astra_city]

awesome Gildo - glad everything is going good!

[ultim8DTM5]

An increase of 20kws? Shove it on a dyno, but I guess you should have done a before and after :(

Well the shop really, if you are a mule

[Gildo]

i am doing a befor and after.....read the above post.
Its having 3 dynos,
1. full exhaust system,
2. just the muffler
3. totally stock exhaust

[R3N]

my stock-ish astra put out 105.1hp atw so you can compare it to that

[beep beep sri]

105kw at the wheels! what the hell have you done to the car? stock is 95kw isnt it? then you have driveline loss

[mr_sikma]

105HP not kWs :)

Sounds good Gildo, 100kws @ wheels sounds sweet!!!

Also is the 1.4 the same as the 1.8 but having smaller internals etc?

In other words will these fit the 1.4s?

[InsaneAsylum]

haha 105kw hahahaha

keevers sri made 88kw atw on our dyno day and glenn's old sri made 100 and something at the wheels but it had internal engine mods so i doubt an exhaust is going to give you 30 kilowatts!

[Gildo]

well i thought the exact same too,
dont get me wrong. this is just the infomation i have been passed on.
I will be gettin the print out from the dyno to show what ever the power increase is.

Also, my mate has a civic VTI-R and he ran 98 kw atw, and my car now feels alot faster than his.

im not saying it is definate, but i will have the slips soon to show what the increase was.

[astra_city]

Why is everyone comparing their dyno figures from different dynos? Some dynos read very high, others low. Which is why dynos are good for before and after comparisons, but not much more.

[lowey22]

Why is everyone comparing their dyno figures from different dynos? Some dynos read very high, others low. Which is why dynos are good for before and after comparisons, but not much more.

i agree. best for comparision uses. i look forward to seeing the results and even more look forward to bolting a set of these (plus a much needed new exhaust) on my lil Astra.

[OzzySRi]

Id say those figures from the exhaust shop is nothing but wishful thinking. Ive had extractors on my SRi for ages now. It is quicker, but only as quick as an equally modded Pulsar SSS. Top end response is excellent tho plus it sounds horny at full noise :)

[Gildo]

it also depends on the style and design of the extractors to how they work,
Basically, they estimated result of 100+ KW atw is with a full exhaust system including of custom designed extractors, high flow cat, full new piping and a rear muffler.
the car is on the dyno as we speak and the results will be up 2nite.

[mr_sikma]

look forward to seeing the figures!

now hit the drags ;)

[pred8r]

Waiting for the results.....Any idea on costs? (supply only)

[Gildo]

will be picking up the car tomorrow and gettin the befor and after dyno readings.
cost for extractors and high flow cat will be around 800 fitten unsure about unfitted

[beep beep sri]

any news on the kw gains?

[Gildo]

Yeh sorry guys, just been researching and speaking to the dyno guy after i got the results,
Basically i got an increase of 9 KW atw taking my total to just under 80 atw.
(this was with air intake temp at 32 degrees.)

Im not sure if i should be happy with 80 kw ATW, but the exhaust shop says that with proper fuel, cooler temps i should run around 82.

Im not complaining though as a 9 kw atw increase isnt to bad is it.

[astra_city]

as i said before, I still don't think you should take too much notice of your overall power figure. You could take your car to a different dyno and read significantly higher (or lower).

The fact that you got an increase of 9kw atw means that you're over 10kw (at the flywheel) better off than before! Which is pretty good I think.

[pred8r]

Yeh sorry guys, just been researching and speaking to the dyno guy after i got the results,
Basically i got an increase of 9 KW atw taking my total to just under 80 atw.
(this was with air intake temp at 32 degrees.)

Im not sure if i should be happy with 80 kw ATW, but the exhaust shop says that with proper fuel, cooler temps i should run around 82.

Im not complaining though as a 9 kw atw increase isnt to bad is it.

Its just over 10% which seems to be the 'norm' with extractors (unless they have a hairdryer attached to them)

It went like stink before, now it must go even stinkier :D

[BA55UP]

how much has it cost so far? and how much you think you will be spending?

[break]

Also is the 1.4 the same as the 1.8 but having smaller internals etc?

In other words will these fit the 1.4s?If I remember correctly, both use the same block... so if thats true then yes, these will fit the 1.4s

[Gildo]

I have spent nothing, as my car was used as the "Dummie" for testing.
Basically i think the extractors with high flow cat installed would be around $800.
The exhaust shop is doing a full write up on it, and i will post it as soon as its done.

[OzzySRi]

10% improvement sounds about right. Decent gains in my book. Could've spent about the same $$$ for the same increase with powerchip.

[BA55UP]

why not get both ;) IMO its just another mod to add to the power :D

i will deffinetly be looking into this

[pred8r]

10% improvement sounds about right. Decent gains in my book. Could've spent about the same $$$ for the same increase with powerchip.
Yes but then the exhaust would be the restricting factor.
Get both done and itll probably be the injectors or fuel supply.

For that money could be getting close to a s/c, but those same 2 mods should be done anyway for best performance.

How fast can you afford to go? :D

[JasonGilholme]

i don't think the injhectors will have any problem keeping up with an exhaust and an ecu mod. I've seen stock injectors keep up with descent turbo systems. And thats using stock NA injectors for the turbo app.

X Force as a brand are known to have low increases in power anyway. only getting 9 kws extra out of a full exhaust system isn't much at all. For a full exhaust, hi flow cat, headers and all, i would be expecting at least 20 kws.

Alot of mates i know that have hondas have experienced gains of about 20 kws using toda or mugen gear and thats only from a 1.6 litre car. The toda headers, including cat, are about 1500 bucks tho.

I spose you get what you pay for.

[mr_sikma]

9kws would def feel like alot more tho!

so do they fit the 1.4's?

[BA55UP]

If I remember correctly, both use the same block... so if thats true then yes, these will fit the 1.4s

:) i reakon they would fit np

[mr_sikma]

so i should atleast get about 5kws @ the wheels more ;)

[Gildo]

i don't think the injhectors will have any problem keeping up with an exhaust and an ecu mod. I've seen stock injectors keep up with descent turbo systems. And thats using stock NA injectors for the turbo app.

X Force as a brand are known to have low increases in power anyway. only getting 9 kws extra out of a full exhaust system isn't much at all. For a full exhaust, hi flow cat, headers and all, i would be expecting at least 20 kws.

Alot of mates i know that have hondas have experienced gains of about 20 kws using toda or mugen gear and thats only from a 1.6 litre car. The toda headers, including cat, are about 1500 bucks tho.

I spose you get what you pay for.

Thats not very accurate, The extractors arn't X-Force. They were custom, which the design has been sold to X-Force for mass production.

Your comparing to different things. A universal product to a specially designed product. Any other universal product will give u around a 10% power increase.

Also with the gains of around 20 KW that is experience with V-Tec....not ecotec :P heheh. I have two mates with civics, 1 vti-r and other Gli. Gli recieved a 8 kw atw increase with custom extractors, while the Vti-r gianed 25 kw atw. The main gain is through V-Tec with a very uneven power band.

[ultim8DTM5]

Yes but then the exhaust would be the restricting factor.
Get both done and itll probably be the injectors or fuel supply.

For that money could be getting close to a s/c, but those same 2 mods should be done anyway for best performance.

How fast can you afford to go? :D


Yes, but your main hurdle is the ECU. Due to the fly-by-wire throttle, you cram too much air into the engine and the ECU ****s itself and goes into "limp mode." This is what I've seen happen to nearly every N/A vehicle that goes FI with ECUs similar to ours.

Spending the dollars on tuning and electronics will be more than the actual hardware. Remember Tony's turbo Corsa C is running a MoTeC.

[pred8r]

Yes, but your main hurdle is the ECU. Due to the fly-by-wire throttle, you cram too much air into the engine and the ECU ****s itself and goes into "limp mode." This is what I've seen happen to nearly every N/A vehicle that goes FI with ECUs similar to ours.

Spending the dollars on tuning and electronics will be more than the actual hardware. Remember Tony's turbo Corsa C is running a MoTeC.

100% agree, Its all ECU related, how else would you explain a 1Kw increase using Opti-vortex-whatever fuel over standard unleaded?

The honda one is probably a 'well worked' standard ecu with various maps it employs depending on the mods done. Ours OTOH is probably designed to remain as close to 'factory standard' irrespective of the mods done, This all assumes unmodified ECU programs.

[JasonGilholme]

Gildo: Tru about the v-tech engines compared to ecotech or any other non v-tech honda motor. The uneven power band is definately due to ecu tuning tho. I've experienced great response from hondas with extractors that have had aftermarket engine management and it can even be rectified by using a descent fuel management. ie V-afc.

Not sure about the difference between the honda ecu and our ecu but i have also experienced a multitude of problems since doin the "breathing" mods to my corsa. Ever since i did my filter and exhaust i've been experiencing choppy acceleration and occasional limp mode. More regularily in the summer months, and i believe that this is due to the ecu trying too hard to keep within its reccomended paramaters. Remember that our cars were built in a foriegn country where temperatures are substantially lower then ours so they have not been fully tested with outragiously high air temps.

[break]

so do they fit the 1.4's?If you can find out the port size and spacing on the 1.4 and 1.8 blocks I can tell you if they will fit.

Otherwise, best bet is to call an exhaust shop and ask... hell... the local holden service centre should be able to answer that for you as well.

[low astra]

Gildo: Tru about the v-tech engines compared to ecotech or any other non v-tech honda motor. The uneven power band is definately due to ecu tuning tho. I've experienced great response from hondas with extractors that have had aftermarket engine management and it can even be rectified by using a descent fuel management. ie V-afc.

Not sure about the difference between the honda ecu and our ecu but i have also experienced a multitude of problems since doin the "breathing" mods to my corsa. Ever since i did my filter and exhaust i've been experiencing choppy acceleration and occasional limp mode. More regularily in the summer months, and i believe that this is due to the ecu trying too hard to keep within its reccomended paramaters. Remember that our cars were built in a foriegn country where temperatures are substantially lower then ours so they have not been fully tested with outragiously high air temps.


what are u doin 2 get limp mode,


ive ran my car with no exhaust, we i had headers and cat, but nothing from the first muffler when we were doin my exhaust, i drove it for 25min and didnt have a probablem except it was bloody noisy, i also have had ram pods, opened up air boxxes and i havn't had limp mode unless ive pulled of sensors, or disconected some vacume hosses

[JasonGilholme]

not sure what it is man. If i knew i'd fix it.

Im not doin anythin crazy in my car. Its just when the temps get around the 32 to 35 degree mark outside, it starts to get "buggy".

Hence my decision to buy a new car.

[ultim8DTM5]

Remember the sensor is just on the headers before the cat from memory, so thats why you may have not had any problems

[BA55UP]

all the more looks like it could be a way around the ECU?