Finally! A not so cheery review of the Viva!!

[CJB]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17032085%255E13232,00.html

Bored at work and found this article on the Viva. Expecting another rave review I read only to find they do give credit where credit is due, however, they don’t mind making the narky comments. I thought I’d share seen as we are all saying the Viva won’t work and YES I know there are heaps of discussions saying it will because it’s all about price, but I particularly like how they comment on the engine, plastics and safety. About the only good thing they comment on is how Holden has made a good improvement from the Daewoo suspension in the Lacetti.

And when it says down the bottom, “If we only had $17,990 in our pockets we may think differently” well… my take on that, why not just save or borrow the little extra to get the Astra CD???

[JasonGilholme]

i bet you he owns an astra!! lol

[CJB]

That or has proper taste / isn't scared to state the obvious!!!

[Namus]

so it's a diplomatic way of saying "it's a heap of crap"...

[Desty]

Not entirely... I think he's saying, "at $17,990, you *really* are getting what you pay for!!!".

[GeeeAus]

Hi There

Thanks for the link, very interesting read. I can't say I agre entirely with the reviewer’s sentiment. I for one am excited at the prospect of owning a Holden Viva.

I've been a fan of the Lacetti for about a year now and consider it to be a tried and tested formula that fits realistic economies of scale for me.

Fuel is headed north, we have a baby girl now, and I run my own business from home that means extended travel comfort and loading area are important factors.

We've currently got a 1997 JR Vectra 2.0 Litre (Vectra B With C20SEL) and that is doing well for us, but a wagon would be better.

I'm a little tired of paying through the nose each time a modest part is needed however, and so can see why some people would buy a new Daewoo rather than an old Opel.

I think the standard feature set is great, and the styling a nice balance of European flair and American simplicity. Though I would love to buy one with the Daewoo bonnet…. ☺

The Family II engine, yes II not 1 as the reviewer says, is a great thing, it’s made here and has been a powerful and fuel efficient engine since its inception in the Camira. Another car that was great, but didn't win too many auto reviewer friends....

We’ve had a JE Camira for ages now, and we’ve had six (6) previous Camiras of various models. All great used cars with no major problems.

Hopefully next year will bring better profits and the opportunity to purchase a Viva wagon with all options.

Might be a little less cramped in the car going away for work, or to see the in-laws at Christmas.

Just my $0.02c worth.

In reality, it’s just as much a European car as the Astra, Vectra and Barina in my book.

Its’ engine has roots at Opel, its’ chassis too, (It’s J Platform Based). It’s just been manufactured elsewhere. Look at it and at its spec sheet and tell me what about it is Korean. Nothing.

It’s a budget car and as so you’d expect fit and finnish to be satisfactory rather than exceptional.

But give it credit its not a Toyota, its Korean built German engineering at its’ most affordable.

That’s not always a bad thing. Its not as if European built Astras haven’t had their share of issues. That doesn’t make them poor cars in total.

Awaiting Viva Finance…. “Finance…..” Man I am poor!!!!!

GeeeAus

[Chris R]

having pulled two of these apart already , I can see the adaptions made for this market. pull too hard on the plastics (which are a BITCH to get loose. ) and you break the mounting snaps or the clips give way and go to obvlion. driving one isn't much different from a corsa C.

they do not come with cruise as std but are easyish to do for cruise. (which is what I have done on the two cancer council cars in brissy.)

[Namus]

if u wanted a wagon; u could always go the Astra wagon

[CJB]

Well Geeeaus I hope you do get the wagon then because it sounds like you really want it, and when someone really wants something I believe they should get it. I found it interestingly different to actually hear someone say they would want one... let alone say they would want the Daewoo grill. I am not slagging you or anyone off for saying that - it's just something I didn't expect to hear. But you know, everyone has different tastes and just because my opinion isn't very high of them doesn't mean I think less of people who like them or anyone whose opinion differs.

Perhaps you could rebadge as a Daewoo?? Seriously though...

My main reason for posting the link etc was because it was the first review of the car I had seen that actually said the truth about the car and didn't just suck up to Holden and say "What are great car... Holden have done well with this"... I mean they have I guess, but we aren't stupid. Call the car what it is.

I will admit though the front of the sedan looks alright... not great, but alright. The hatch is just plain FUGLY. However, just my opinion!

Let us know how you go with one, test driving, buying etc.

BTW - I finally saw one on the road owned by a general member of society!!! A black sedan. It was weird to watch her drive it... just an odd moment.

[GeeeAus]

Thanks for the information regarding the flimsy trim. My Vectra has a few little oddities that break also.

Installing a stereo in a Vectra B almost always results in the plastic lugs that secure the A/C mixture and fan controls facia to the console. Very cheap indeed for a German car.

For the most part that seems to be the way of all smallish cars today. They are budget vehicles and somewhere it shows.

I'm certain that taste in cars is like that of other things.

Some things are for me, and some for others.

I really don't get all that worked up over the Astra wagon to be honest.

I much prefer the now abandoned styling of the Astra Classic and its kindred. The Cars for the late 90's like my Vectra B.

In that respect the Viva is a little more to my taste. In some other ways it has quite a resemblance to the Vectra C, (I think it’s the doors, particularly on the wagon).

In any case its size, styling, engine capacity safety cell design and equipment levels make it our first choice. My wife has to like it too, and she does; so Viva it is.

In all I'm expecting it to be a very honest, hard working and versatile small wagon with all the trimmings. On that basis, does it seem likely that we'll be disappointed, I think not......

I too had some reservations regarding Holden’s change of focus from Europe to Asia. After some time to mull it over I think Holden is doing the right thing.

Look at it this way. They’ve taken the Euro cars we all love, and assisted an Asian company to make that kind of vehicle on such a scale as more new car buyers can have better things.

I understand it lacks the refinement and sheer finesse of a truly Opel made car. But compare something like Viva to a Kia/Hyundai Sorato/Elantra or to a Suzuki Ignis (A Bread Van!), or the no troubles Toyota Echo (A Car That Truly Handles Like S Shopping Trolley, But Will Keep Going For Years).

The Viva looks truly cutting edge. Even the, “me too” review in the link supplied earlier reveals Viva has some quite good driving dynamics in terms of handling.

“But things get better when you turn the wheel. Ride and handling are unexpectedly good, with a supple quality over all but severely broken bitumen combining with a planted feeling in fast corners.

No Daewoo we drove ever managed to combine these two, so hats off to Holden's suspension development experts.”

The Age

This is probably one of the most important safety features I can think of in a car. Remember I’m on a budget, eed something affordable in all respects, and have a wife and child who’s safety is paramount to me.

“Will it go where I point it, even when I get in trouble…..?”

It seems it will.

“Their changes have made the Viva balanced and fun to drive in a way none of its sub-$20,000 Korean competition can match.”

The Age

Holden should be knighted for making buyers look to this kind of design in favour of the truly Asian made cars so frequently seen here in Oz.

European car, for Asian money, with Australian/German engine. Seems reasonable to me. I hope the models to come show as much promise and development.

It’s sad that the Opel chapter of Holden’s portfolio is coming to a close. But as they say, as one door closes, another opens. Anmd in this case for the best of reasons.

Ladies and Gentlemen;

Holden, As A Marketing Force In The Small/Medium Affordable Car Sector, Is Back….! Long Live The Lion King…..

Cheers


GeeeAus

[GeeeAus]

Well Geeeaus I hope you do get the wagon then because it sounds like you really want it, and when someone really wants something I believe they should get it. I found it interestingly different to actually hear someone say they would want one... let alone say they would want the Daewoo grill. I am not slagging you or anyone off for saying that - it's just something I didn't expect to hear. But you know, everyone has different tastes and just because my opinion isn't very high of them doesn't mean I think less of people who like them or anyone whose opinion differs.

Perhaps you could rebadge as a Daewoo?? Seriously though...

My main reason for posting the link etc was because it was the first review of the car I had seen that actually said the truth about the car and didn't just suck up to Holden and say "What are great car... Holden have done well with this"... I mean they have I guess, but we aren't stupid. Call the car what it is.

I will admit though the front of the sedan looks alright... not great, but alright. The hatch is just plain FUGLY. However, just my opinion!

Let us know how you go with one, test driving, buying etc.

BTW - I finally saw one on the road owned by a general member of society!!! A black sedan. It was weird to watch her drive it... just an odd moment.

No worries Kyle, I'll keep you posted as to the test drive. I think it will be a good thing. Daewoo manufacture this car, but they have really designed nothing. Thats why I think it will be O.K.

Cheers.

[Red AH SRI T]

you could always buy a GM Daewoo bonnet for the lacetti from Holden spare parts :D

[GeeeAus]

you could always buy a GM Daewoo bonnet for the lacetti from Holden spare parts :D

Seriously considering that prospect Actually.

I gather I'm all by myself in this regard, but I really like the Lacetti/Viva.

Then again I liked the Nubira 2.0 Litre 16v jobbie also.

Then again I've have good things to say about all the Camiras we've ever owned. So much so that I have a long term project based on a JD 1.8 MPFI model.

Perhpas I'm easily pleased...... :-)

[CJB]

yes but appearance wise the Daewoo cars towards the end had picked up in the looks department. It's the mechanical flaws and cheapness feeling that made me have no interest in them. I hear them drive past now and the engine sounds horrible. A car that has probably only done 60,000kms sounds like it's done well over 200,000kms!

Saw the hatch out and about today... a silver one.

[01CDsedan]

But do you find the same thing with the same engines when they're fitted to Opels?

I've seen two Vivas out and about so far, both hatchbacks - one silver and one black. Not bad looking for a hatchback.

[pred8r]

I still wouldve bought the next 3-door opel barina as i prefer the tigra front much more than the daecrap one.

[GeeeAus]

I actually tested a Lacetti this evening. A few things I like and some I don't

Dislike:

Cabin Engine Noise Levels (Hello Engine, Yes We haven't Forgotten You....)

Confusing Instrument Arrangement (WTF...?)

Gear Shift Very Notchy (Just Like The Camira Gearbox ☺ )

Lake Of Braking Feedback (Fells Very Dull)

Engine Over-Revs When Changing Pegs

The "CORRECT" Placement Of The Trafficator Stalk (It's No Longer This Way On Viva.)

Like:
Engine Power Delivery & Willingness To Rev (To be absolutely, 100% Dinky Die Honest.......)
I Think the Australian reviewer may have driven a dud. I found the engine very smooth and power delivery crisp and swift. It responded to the whip well and was as good as my parent Astra City. - Really, it was Impressive, which is in stark contrast to the reviewer’s experience.

Road Noise Well Suppressed (All you hear is the donk!)

Excellent Seating Position (Comfy For A Person Of My Build)

Quality Of Interior Trim Fabric and Stitching

Huge Rear Leg Room For 4 Adults

Shopping Anchors, (Nice Touch, All Family Cars Should Have These)

Excellent Throttle Response At All Speeds (Genuinely Impressed)

God Braking Performance And Progression, (As Above With Almost Zero Feedback ☹ )

Zippy And Manageable, With Good General Driving Dynamics.

Good Choice Of Gear Ratios.

I’d still like to drive a new Viva, rather than a friends 20,000Km old Lacetti, But in all I can see what it is at the core will suit us down to the ground. So long as the Viva is “As Good” and from what I read and hear it’s better; we’re looking forward to a new Viva.

In all, its a nice car for $18,000, I think we need t kep that in mind with all thse cars.

Its targeted at people like me, with a tight budget, wife, child, business and desire to own omething a little bit more than an Elantra.

Certainly not for everyone, but great for me.

Viva the room for the child, computer equipment, lugage and associated clutter, without a $7,000 PA fuel budget.

Viva…..!

GeeeAus

[rjastra]

if u wanted a wagon; u could always go the Astra wagon


Which is approx $5000 more... or 25% more than the Viva.

[Red AH SRI T]

Which is approx $5000 more... or 25% more than the Viva.

actually its only $4000 more

$19490 for manual Viva Family van
$23490 for Manual Astra Family van

add $1190 to viva for ABS and Alloys to bring it into line with Astra and the saving is only $2810

[rjastra]

add $1190 to viva for ABS and Alloys to bring it into line with Astra and the saving is only $2810


You forgot to add alloys and power rear windows to the Astra CD :)

[Red AH SRI T]

DUH

thats because rear power windows are not available for the ASTRA CD wagon, and nor are factory alloys unless they are HBD ones.

[rjastra]

Well, there you go. If someone is looking at a Viva to save money then why do you add the ABS/Alloy wheels to the price? It doesn't make sense.

If you want to go down that path you need to option the Astra to match the Viva as well.

So... the difference in price is $4000+

[Red AH SRI T]

Well, there you go. If someone is looking at a Viva to save money then why do you add the ABS/Alloy wheels to the price? It doesn't make sense.

If you want to go down that path you need to option the Astra to match the Viva as well.

So... the difference in price is $4000+

people dont necessarily buy the viva to save money.

Quiet a few ppl have bought it becuase they dont like the shape of the Astra H.

I also added the ABS/Alloys to the price of the Viva because that is what is selling. There is already a waiting list to Feb 2006 for Viva wagons with ABS & Alloys.

[astra03]

GeeeAus,

You make some very level headed points regarding the Viva. I to will be looking in prob 2-3 yrs time to replace my 2003 TS astra sedan. I have been very disappointed to see that it looks like the Astra will never come to Oz in a sedan version. The current shape in hatch is too small in the boot area just for starters.

Unless they upgrade to the later Euro version of the 1.8 for the Astras coming to Australia, then it seems the stigma that is slowly becoming attached to the new Astra of "nice car shame about the performance" will only grow. The extra weight of the H is a ball and chain around the reasonable performance of the same engine in the TS.

As you say it does come down to price, being a family man also, I understand where you are coming from. I have reservations like everyone concerning the Viva, ti does appear that the Holden input in suspension has improved the car over its previous badging. Like just about anything, you only get what you pay for most of the time and although fairly well equipped as standard I wonder about the quality of such fittings after a few years. The engine gives me concern as well, on paper it is ok for performance as an export engine from the Holden Engine Co, but is it really good enough for what Australians can have in other manufacturers cars, i.e virtually all other models fitted with 1.8.

I will be faced with a tough decision down the track, even at $17,990 for a sedan, really another 2-3k will get me into something of superior finish, performance and resale value.

Trouble is I am a Holden person, so what do I do? The Astra has no sedan, the wagon I dont really want and is getting too dear. The Astra currently is getting a reputation as a slug, and the disappearance of a temperature guage is beyond comprehension. What happens if the thermostat jams shut, or the electric fan does not come on when required. You wouldnt have a clue, by the time you know of any trouble the engine will be done for. A sensor on low coolant level is a "shut the door after the horse has bolted" mentality. The temperature guage should be 4inches round, get rid of some of the other "bells and whistles" and have the most important one as a priority!

Anyway, just wanted to say I support your idas and thoughts, be interested to hear which way you go with your decision.

[eld0ra]

GeeeAus,

the disappearance of a temperature guage is beyond comprehension. What happens if the thermostat jams shut, or the electric fan does not come on when required. You wouldnt have a clue, by the time you know of any trouble the engine will be done for.
I must object to that. I don't know where but i read somewhere (maybe in the manual) that when the astra engine starts to overheat you get a warning message on your display screen just like when your low on fuel.

No offense to anyone who likes the Viva but its ****. Simple way to put it. Holden has taken a couple of steps back releasing the viva. A friend of mine works at holden. His a manager of valuing used cars and he showed me the new viva when it just came in. His opinion of the new car was that its terrible. He opened the drivers door and pointed out the door trimming. You could practically stick your finger under the trimming. It was starting to come off and its a brand new car. Its a typical daewoo, cheap and nasty.

[eld0ra]

Oh and i forgot to mention something.. To all the barina lovers out there your not going to like the sound of this.

Holden has decided to dump opel and use daewoo to produce the new barinas in the next couple of years.

I was seriously hoping daewoo would just die. As they're cars aren't street legal because they literally fall apart. (I know from experience)

[GeeeAus]

I'm sorry to become involved in affairs such as these.

I really should know better by now.

I PERSONALLY find the suggestion Holden has taken a backward step absurd.

Can anybody here tell me how Holden makes money.....?

That’s right, it sells "NEW CARS".

Now when your market is getting smaller, and competition is getting more fierce, and prices just seem to keep falling, what do you do if you want to stay in the race?

You find a way to produce what the market says it wants in the cheapest ways possible,

Bingo, The Viva is born.

Why.....?

Because like it or not, it’s basically an Astra which has a sound mechanical design, it looks O.K., well some think it does like me, and I want to buy one. So that in itself proves Holden has done its’ homework.

There are other buyer like me, who don't like the current Astra, who can't bring themselves to buy a Hyundai and who like better handling cars than Toyota and Mitsubishi are currently producing.

There is a genuine need for car like Viva, and while it’s disappointing that Holden's foray into the Euro line-up has all but ended, it’s for good reason and will very likely work out for the best.

My parent's Astra was nothing to write home about when compared with this Daewoo based machine. On the road the engines performance and behaviour were identical, as they should be.

It drives O.K., it was comfy, it will take all our stuff and it won't kill us to pay for it.

I have a kid, responsibilities and accounts to balance.

It’s for buyers like me that Viva was created.

Kudos to Holden, you haven't forgotten us little folk with no money but big needs.

The Viva is not ****, it’s different and many of you don't like it...

That’s O.K., but it starting to get to the point where sensible discussion is lost here.

Most of you guys are Opel modders and enthusiasts, with no wife, business or kids. The Viva isn’t going to be warmly accepted by your demographic.

Life isn't the same for me, and so my priorities are different, and so are my preferences.

It's not as if our Vectra B, A QUALITY EUROPEAN CAR – Tisk Tisk, didn’t have some "BIG EXPENSIVE" issues. It won't be hard for Viva to do better than that, and it will.

Not all things are for all people.

GeeeAus

P.S.

Thanks to Astra03, Kyle and others who have been able to see past "I don't agree with Holden's decision because it isn't good for Opel entusiasts" to see the reality that exists for others.

[eld0ra]

I'm sorry but its not the fact that holden went with someone else. Its a fact that they went with daewoo. (btw, the little suzuki made cruze is funky)

I'v experienced 2 daewoo cars in the past. We will forget the first one which was a ceilo (lower class car) was a shocker but for 15k or something like that, its what you pay for. The Daewoo Leganza bought at $28,000 in 98 brand new. You'd expect something from it at that price. This car had only driven 70,000km max and it started to fall apart. First the whole dash buckled and i had to pay $400 to replace it. Rear view mirror fell off as the glue unstuck, engine started leaking oil from the head (not because it was thrashed, and it wasn't) and many other things.

Even holden employees are knocking the viva.

I'm glad your enjoying the viva, but from my experience i would never touch another daewoo car with a 10ft pole.

[EL BURITO]

I'm sorry but its not the fact that holden went with someone else. Its a fact that they went with daewoo. (btw, the little suzuki made cruze is funky)

Yes the Cruze is good Suzuki and dont start dissin them all the cars in my drive way come from Opel and Suzuki and they last maby they should have just imported the alto from India again insted of the dawoo soursed cars.

[GeeeAus]

I see you've had some poor results with Daewoo in the past. My experiences are somewhat different.

Mum and dad had a Daewoo Nubira 2.0 Litre (Used C20SED engine very similar to Vectra B C20SEL). No trouble with the car for 100,000 Km when they elected to sell it due to dad's retirement.

They knew the Daewoo was a Holden under the banner and so opted this time for a flashier Holden Astra.

Some very dear friends of ours who were gracious enough to have us drive their 20,000 Km old Lacetti have nothing but good things to say.

I on the other hand am miserable with our Vectra B's tendency to need things that are expensive. Furthermore I am gob smacked at how little Holden dealers know about a car that was put together here for a year, and who’s engine has always been made here.

The Vectra is a lovely car to drive, but quality control seems almost non-existent.

Considering Viva shares an engine design with Astra (Which some drivers have found to be problematic) it seems unlikely Viva will be a completely no fuss affair.

However it stands at least a good chance of being all right as it will be covered under a warranty for 3 years.

In other words; nothing apart from servicing should be my problem.

It is based on some real world good experiences, and the knowledge that even German cars have issues that I consider the Viva to be a good thing. In any case, removing my, and anybody else's opinion from the equation for a moment.

It is a FACT that Viva has been on the market for far too short a time to really know how poor it is. Much of the praise MAY prove to be unworthy. However in that sense the inverse is also true.

It MAY show that Viva is a good thing by quality and reliability standards.

Time will tell, but it hasn't yet.

Just one more thing for consideration.

Quote:

"Even holden employees are knocking the viva."

You mean SOME Holden Executives dislike the decision by Holden to launch the Viva, don't you…..?

Because HOLDEN would never be so stupid as to knock the Viva, a car it has elected to promote and sell in Australia.

What I think you meant to say is that SOME Holden executives dislike Viva, and have made comment about their feelings.

Now consider that Holden is a very, very big and wealthy company, that it has a HUGE staff pool, and that pool is made up of lots of folks from varying demographics.

It is under that consideration NOT at all inconceivable that somebody in Holden's employ, doesn't like the company's decided direction with Viva.

On that note I will remind you that Holden's 1981 Chief Executive Of Product Development was once quoted as saying...."I don't really think much of this front wheel drive rubbish....." at the launch of the JB Camira.

Now over 21 years latter, lets get a show of hands who drives a Holden imported Opel made car that isn't front drive.

No show of hands huh..... Now why would that be. Because the man’s opinions while his entitlement; were a long way off the mark. He was paid to oversee a team of people who had been given a set project to complete. Clearly he had the skills in that regard to serve his role.

He was also, not the man to ask about which drive train standard was best for the future. Time proved front drive to be a great thing such that almost everybody makes front drive vehicles as its’ core business.

Holden employs people to do their job, and only a select few people at Holden get paid for their opinion. Because only a select few are qualified to give it.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.....

So some in Holden are knocking Viva, tell me what does this information PROVE.

Two thirds of three quarters of not much unfortunately.

Some engineers inside Intel were quoted as saying "The Pentium 4 will never work as a platform....."

I bet they feel pretty silly now.....

Cheers


GeeeAus

[eld0ra]

Just to clarify, it was actually holden sales people who were saying that it wasn't a very good quality car and they would perfer to sell someone a barina or an astra over the viva.

[BassyAstra]

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/318/imgheroviva8mr.jpg

[GeeeAus]

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/318/imgheroviva8mr.jpg


Very Funny Thats Class

:-)

GeeeAus

[CJB]

Thanks Geeeaus for the mentioning... and yeah I can see past the bad points and accept that the sedan isn't that bad and some people may like it, but make no mistake I am not a fan of it and would never buy one or recommend one.

The bit about the interior coming apart at showroom condition, well... I can believe that, but at the same time I have to question whether it was just that car, or whether it's all of them. Maybe I should go have a closer look at one on the inside and see. The only reason I make this point is because there have been people on this forum and in "the public" who have bought Barina's and found them to be Lemons. Of course I question how that could be... but I guess it could be believeable. I mean, with my Barina I have already had a reverse sensor switch go under 30,000kms and when I bought the car brand new it wasn't painted properly and had to have that fixed when we all finally noticed it some time later.

I don't agree with suggesting the Viva is better then a Hyundai. Hyundai have come a long way since they first came to Australia and the new Accent 3 door Turbo looks hot. Again though I am not an avid Hyundai supporter.

For the money you pay for the Viva, you could buy a Lancer ES sedan or a Nissan Pulsar (soon to be replaced by the Tiida but I assume they will be in the same price range). The Nissan Pulsar ST starts at $18,990 with free fuel. That's $1000 difference for a better car... again, not saying I am an avid Nissan supporter, but when compared to Daewoo, well I'd go with Nissan anyday. The Lancer is $18,990 or $19,990... can't remember??? Even the VRX Lancer is cheaper then the Pulsar Q. My friend bought a Q for $26K. That was a bit excessive... anyways... back on the point.

When I worked at Action a one of my night time supervisors had a 99 Leganza and the car had only done 36,000kms and the timing belt went. Completely ****ed everything else in the car too.

I'd also believe that Holden employees are criticising the Viva. While they aren't employed to give an opinion, they still do. It's like all of us, we usually have our own disagreements with work products/services and usually do voice them to anyone who will listen. I know I do. Whilst they might be ok to sell them, that's more then likely just the passion for commission that allows them to sell it. Like Blackie said to me, you don't even need to have a passion in cars to sell them, just the out there personality... so maybe the ones who don't comment are those who aren't really into cars and prefer $. I understand they can't just tell every customer who approaches the car not to buy it, but maybe if the customer asked about it's heritage they could be truthful...???

About the Cruze. I'd have one anyday. A black one. I tried to get my Grandma to buy one, so I could borrow it.. but they ended up going with a Rav4, grrr... but I can't work out why they are running them out as well...

It was only the other week I realised the Jackaroo is no longer sold. Where have I been???

As for the wife kids business scenario, feel for you dude, I do... but just because us younger one might be without kids, for now, doesn't mean we don't have our fair share of debt and liabilities. Hell, Insurance premiums cost the same as a kid almost these days for us younger drivers!!!

We all knew Holden were dumping the Opel Barina for the Daewoo Barina long time ago...... OLD news now.

I hate the way too people call these cars "budget cars". That more then anything else makes them sound cheap. I happen to believe the $13,490 plus all other costs didn't get me a "budget car" but more a good reliable car. You do pay for what you get I realise, but can you really explain paying $28K for a Leganza only to have it fall apart on you. That bit about the dash buckling sounds really weird and not good.

I think that's all I have to say for now.....

[180HOA]

I agree with Geeaus.

The Viva is aimed at a diferent market to the Astra. That's why they sell the Viva AND the Astra. Holden is a business. They are there to make money. They will sell what the market will buy. Just because you won't buy it doesn't mean someone else won't.

Quite frankly I think it's hypocritical that so many people get defensive about others who they label as ignorant for putting down their "Opels", and then make judgements about a car they've had little, if any experience with - and, as has already been said, hasn't been on sale long enough for any real judgements on quality.

My folks spent $60k on a car that might classify as a lemon by some standards because it had a lot of niggling probelms in the first couple of years. Nothing major, just nuisance stuff that was all dealt with by the dealer before any of it became real issues. Six years on they still have it and it's been every bit as reliable as any car they've ever owned. The points are - you can get a 'lemon' at any price, and you can't judge the overall quality/reliability of a car by a couple relatively insignificant flaws. And you certainly can't judge the quality of car until it's been around for a few years. Even then, the impression of quality will be influenced by how the dealers respond to any problems that arise.

Of course the Viva isn't 'as good' as an Astra. But the Astra is substantially dearer. The mistake people are making is comparing the two cars. they are not intended to be compared - that is, they are not intended to compete with each other. If they were, Holden wouldn't bother selling both.

[CJB]

I thought the Viva was being compared to the Astra TS and since that's no longer for sale the comparison was why not spend the extra few $ and get the Astra AH....

[rjastra]

I find it very interesting that people get so worked up about what amounts to a shopping trolley.

The Vectra, Astra, Barina etc etc are nothing to really get emotionally worked up about.

Maybe I am old enough and owned enough cars to see this :)

Does anyone actually realise what great value for money a Viva is? It costs less on road than a base model Pulsar would have cost 12 years ago!!

[astra03]

to EldOra,

You may be very right in what you say, but the simple logic is, why remove it in the first place? For something that costs probably pittence, wouldn't you rather have a guage to observe?

The temp guage in the TS is very sensitive and shows a fine increment in temperature rise due to traffic or other conditions. It will also show you that when the temp does reach 90c, that when the fan comes on you can see the guage drop about 4-5c, even if you are not moving and stuck in traffic.

I would rather have a good sensitive guage that I can keep an eye on rather than a tacho, I mean what average driver needs one, what, some people need one to know when to change gear? If you need one you shouldnt have a licence. In automatic versions unless held in a gear, it changes as it needs to anyway.

From what I have read in the brochures, it says it has a coolant loss sensor that will light up a message on the display unit. I will check with a friend who works at a Holden dealership in Brisbane when I can catch up with him and see exactly how it is triggered. If it is just coolant loss, then by the time it gets that far, it would have caused head damage at least.

[eld0ra]

I appoligize for offending anyone.. but daewoo went bust for a reason and thats all i'm going to say now.

[rjastra]

The temp guage in the TS is very sensitive and shows a fine increment in temperature rise due to traffic or other conditions. It will also show you that when the temp does reach 90c, that when the fan comes on you can see the guage drop about 4-5c, even if you are not moving and stuck in traffic.


The HQ holden didn't have a temp guage 35 yrs ago and it sold heaps.

"People" wouldn't notice the needle heading towards the red until it was too late anyway.

A insistant warning message is probably far more appropriate for the vast majority of people.

[rjastra]

but daewoo went bust for a reason and thats all i'm going to say now.

Well, you are wrong on that count aren't you :) They seem to be building and selling cars all over the world.

[GeeeAus]

Well, you are wrong on that count aren't you :) They seem to be building and selling cars all over the world.


Indeed it is true that Daewoo is back and for the better of the whole automotive industry

Daewoo did not go broke due to poor quality product, but due largely to the fallout of the Asian economic exchange crisis.

See Here

http://english.yna.co.kr/Engnews/20041019/301900000020041019140921E1.html

Since being acquired by GM, Daewoo has pushed back and delivered some incredible things to the GM empire, and the automotive world in general.

GM has placed Daewoo at the forefront of its missive redeployment in Europe, where the Lacetti and its stalemates are marketed as Chevrolet vehicles.

Indeed the company has also innovated many technologies that are jewels to behold for all GM subsidiaries.

For example the Lacetti, Which incidentally was extensively tested and developed here..... employs one of the worlds most sophisticated electronic transmission control system. The computer managed unit can actually learn from the driver's behaviour what is expected at a given time, and adjust changes to suit.

The unit has become big news for companies such as OPEL, who make significant quantities of small/medium vehicles. Although German in design, Daewoo is credited as providing key technical insights necessary to the technologies development.

http://www.orig.green.net.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/1D6D8C08641D2031CA256E9A0081058D_Our+Opinion?OpenD ocument

Dawoo has also innovated itself a brilliant new engine design that has GM partners chomping at the bit for orders to be filled to accommodate the fast growing SUV market. A market Daewoo itself has designs on.

Next year we shall see the first genuine competitor the Ford Territory, and it’s coming from Daewoo.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_48/b3910071.htm

Daewoo is doing very, very well. Most of the workers who lost their jobs 2 years ago are in full time employment with HUGE orders to fill.

Of all the things Daewoo may have BEEN, today it’s none of those.

Holden has made itself an idiot proof investment for the future. One that will pay BIG, BIG dividends as the Chevrolet product built by Daewoo infiltrates more of the U.S. and Europe. Fishermans Bend Will most likely need to undergo significant ungrades to meet demand. That means Holden spending money here in Australia and hiring more Australia workers.

That means jobs. Australian Jobs.

By buying Daewoo made product, Holden's engine building facility at fishermans bend remains viable and profitable for all concerned.

Supporting Daewoo is good for the developing Korean and Vietnamese markets. And now China is on the move, Daewoo could be poised to do some big business.

No, Daewoo's sky’s are clearing quickly and the sun is shining.

It is with some amusement that I think of all those Daewoo's in the U.S. and Europe, with a donk under the hood made where else, but here.......

A good thing, and a great outcome.

Daewoo and Holden are becoming more of the same entity all the time. A partnership that will invariably benefit us as Australians.

The partnership forged between Holden and Daewoo is the kind of spire one watches from afar with great enthusiasm and pride. Because Daewoo didn't fail, and in fact now with GM's backing it looks set for success with the big boys.

Remember though, Daewoo's past financial dramas were a result of something outside its’ control. The market at large is something all things bow to, Daewoo is still standing. Many other companies fell away forever.

Companies Like GM don't invest billions for nothing. Somebody’s counting beans, and Daewoo’s are adding up.

Fortunately it’s all worked out for the best.

GeeeAus

[BassyAstra]

Ford are offering 1000 off their Fiesta so the new Barina and Fiesta will be the same price 12,990.
The new Barina is a tin can with wheels.

[01CDsedan]

They might be the same starting price, but how do they compare equipment-wise?

[Red AH SRI T]

well u have to add A/c to the fiesta and a **** load more equipment, so yeah it hardly makes it the same price

[CJB]

How can they not come standard with a/c??? The Fiesta I mean.

[GeeeAus]

Doing the sums shows the Fiesta is certainly not in the same league in terms of price/equipment ratios.

I'd need to spend $2,000 more to get the Fiesta with air conditioner, really an essential in Australia. Furthermore the CD player is just that, CD Only with no MP3.

We travel quite a bit so being able to put in a single disc that plays for days and days on the road is something we'd use.

I bet it isn't all that easy to fit an MP3 compatible player to any new car tidily.

Nope, the Daewoo sourced Barina is better value than just about, no I mean absolutely everything else at the entry-level price point.

I've no doubt it will sell in droves.

GeeeAus

[GeeeAus]

Sorry should have raised this point in the discussion earlier.

Just saw this:

XC Barina
Date: 12/09/2005
Supplier Name: GM Holden Ltd
Recall Coverage: National
Product Make: Holden
Product Model: XC Barina
Target Number: 4
Model Years From: 2005
Consequences:
Campaign Number: 05-H-07
VIN Range:
Serial Range:
Product Info: MY 05 XC Barina
Defect Details: A potential manufacturing defect in the housing of the airbag and may affect the deployment or operation of the passenger airbag if it is activated.
Consumer action: Consumers will be directly contacted by GM Holden.
Market Coverage: National
Recall Coverage: National

Now this puts things into perspective. It seems that any car, no matter how well received, or fun to drive, or well maintained can have issues.

It seems fitting that we should be discussing POTENTIAL issues with Holden's new Daewoo sourced vehicles and even going as far as to throw mud at the Korean car maker when our own beloved “Krout Krates” can themselves be subject to human error and missengineering.

I also see that Z22SE engines in certain ranges of manufacture are susceptible to POSSIBLE timing chain failure that COULD result in catastrophic engine failure.

It seems even the mighty can fall.

Perhaps this puts things into perspective. Lets SEE what Viva and Barina are REALLY LIKE before we right them off for good. Opel makes dud things too at times. At other times it makes great things with loose ends to tidy up. Like the XC’s airbag assembly.

Toyota is regarded as having some of the best quality control processes in the business. A few years back some Cruisers were made with faulty Big End Bearings. Simple but critical parts that almost everybody has made well since Adam shat in nappies.

Yet new Cruisers suffered engine failures, owners felt gypped and still Toyota's are sold by the bucket load.

No, - Using a car’s Manufacturer is not the best way to benchmark a lemon anymore; things are all WAY more complicated than that nowadays.

Just look at Alfa Remeo….. Nice Drive, flashy well respected name, great history and it has made some real duds lately.

GeeeAus