GM fooling the public

[ronj]

General Motors has done on good job fooling the public about the new viva & barina. Both cars are daewoos sourced from Korea. The old daewoos were selling OK for GM but they decided to pull them from the OZ market.
Now we have the new fantastic viva and barina. Which are daewoos. They have the glossy new TV commercials and 99% of the population think they are the new holdens but in fact the same old daewoos that have been available for many years, be it new models. I think it is a bad move dumping european sourced cars. I suggest Holden sell astras, barinas vectras badged as opels and use the european connection as a selling point in a market full of asian based cars. Finally beware in the next few years of chinese sourced cars they are going to flood our market.

[EL BURITO]

great more crap vehicals that fall apart at the five year mark

[Red AH SRI T]

General Motors has done on good job fooling the public about the new viva & barina. Both cars are daewoos sourced from Korea. The old daewoos were selling OK for GM but they decided to pull them from the OZ market.
Now we have the new fantastic viva and barina. Which are daewoos. They have the glossy new TV commercials and 99% of the population think they are the new holdens but in fact the same old daewoos that have been available for many years, be it new models. I think it is a bad move dumping european sourced cars. I suggest Holden sell astras, barinas vectras badged as opels and use the european connection as a selling point in a market full of asian based cars. Finally beware in the next few years of chinese sourced cars they are going to flood our market.


your a bit slow on the up-take. This is old old news, older than Bassy's grandmother.

GM Holden dumped the Daewoo brand here because they weren't selling ok, there was no value left in the Daewoo brand.

The cars now being sold here by Holden are quiet significantly changed from the ones previously sold by Daewoo, from engine and tranmission size and tune, to suspension set up, exterior styling and interior trims.

Holden can not continue to sell the Barina here priced against the korean brands, it needs to fight fire with fire. Look at what happened when the Barina when up in price and features, it was a great little car but no one bought it, holden quickly took all the features out and chopped the guts out olf the price and it sold like hot cakes. This market segment doesn't give a rats a$$ where the car is built, all they care about is price and features, hence Holden switching to Korea.

If holden was to sell an XC barina for full retail, the dealer would gross about 200 annd something dollars, the new Barina sold at full price, is $1000 cheaper with more features but will gross a dealer almost $1000.

Which makes more business sense to you?

Sure, it would be nice to have Opel sell cars here but there is already an over saturation of new car brands in Australia, why do u think Seat, Daihatsu and Daewoo failed?

And as for the Vectra, Holden hurt the market when it bought the ZC out and priced it through the roof, the market doesnt forget things like that quickly, and people never really liked the styling of it either. All things that killed the chances of the facelifed model making it here.

you have to remember Holden is a business and will do what will appeal to the masses, and unfortunatley people like us aren't part of the masses.

Sure the new model Holden's aren't that great, but they are stop gap cars, the new models of the ones just launched will have Holden Styling and much more holden imput. they will be better cars, we just have to wait.

Remember when Astra G came out? it was a piece of ****, btu Holden had to have it here to establish the Astra brand, then came the Astra F and it was a fantastic car. Hopefully the same thing will happen here.

As for chinese cars, its going to be quet a while before they start flooding our market.

[BassyAstra]

your a bit slow on the up-take. This is old old news, older than Bassy's grandmother.



Here here, this has been talked about at great length..

And i agree with you to some length.

[ronj]

I know its old news, Im a regular visitor to this site. Ive read many a post about holden/ daewoo. but do you think holden pulled daewoo from OZ because of poor sales or was it part of GM's global plan to source new holdens from daewoo. When it comes down to it no matter how much 'holden' styling there is its still a daewoo. What exactly is 'holden' styling is it putting a badge on cars sourced from europe/ asia and releasing them on our market. I dont see much difference from Opel cars in europe and the current models in australia.

[Greg K]

"Remember when Astra G came out? it was a piece of ****, btu Holden had to have it here to establish the Astra brand, then came the Astra F and it was a fantastic car. Hopefully the same thing will happen here."

didnt the F come before the G??






totally agree with you Black AH CDX

Holden is a profit making organisation! thats why they make the decisions that they make!

[rjastra]

[I think it is a bad move dumping european sourced cars.

Interesting how "we" think the opel sourced barina is brilliant yet in its home market it's considered rather average and dull ;)

The small car market is about volume and profit. Who really cares about top notch dynamics and quality when you are trying to spend as little as possible? If you are... then why muck round at that end of the market??

[Namus]

old news....like 12 months old...

[RapidSRi]

haha but everyone's still got plenty to say on the subject

as wheels mag said: 'the cream always rises to the top'. so i guess that means the curdled milk will get thrown out eventually

[Vampire]

May have a test drive of the new barina. From what i understand, they have been modified for the better so you wouldn't be getting an average daewoo version..time will tell

[RapidSRi]

Let us know how the test drive goes.

[Poogene2001]

...When it comes down to it no matter how much 'holden' styling there is its still a daewoo. What exactly is 'holden' styling is it putting a badge on cars sourced from europe/ asia and releasing them on our market...

FYI holden has people working on design and construction of new models in Korea, expected to be released in 2007/08. This means that although the parts will be built in the same factories as the old Daewoo cars were, they will made to holden specifications and at a far lower price than similar cars built in Europe.
Seems like logic to me... and perceptions of quality change... perhaps European isnt always superior?

[Red AH SRI T]

"Remember when Astra G came out? it was a piece of ****, btu Holden had to have it here to establish the Astra brand, then came the Astra F and it was a fantastic car. Hopefully the same thing will happen here."

didnt the F come before the G??






totally agree with you Black AH CDX

Holden is a profit making organisation! thats why they make the decisions that they make!

Yeah you know what i mean, i got my alphabet f*cked up, i should watch seasame street some more

[01CDsedan]

Interesting how "we" think the opel sourced barina is brilliant yet in its home market it's considered rather average and dull ;)


Lots of cars that are brilliant in Europe just don't work in Australia. The Corsa might be the opposite of this - and maybe the changes that were made to it for our market allowed it to work really well here whereas in Europe it was just midfield.

[01CDsedan]

Seems like logic to me... and perceptions of quality change... perhaps European isnt always superior?

Personally, I think European cars are getting worse and worse. The most disappointing cars for me at the Motor Show this year were all European. All ugly styling and cheap, plasticky interiors (Astra H excepted).

French brands seem to be the worst of all. Which is a pity - I used to be a big fan of Peugeot in the 90s.

[CJB]

Not a fan of the Peugeot. They are ugly and I am sick of how in Brisbane the stereotyped image that goes with them is a snobby woman or the gay man.

[Red AH SRI T]

I just broke my shoe

[180HOA]

Personally, I think European cars are getting worse and worse. The most disappointing cars for me at the Motor Show this year were all European. All ugly styling and cheap, plasticky interiors (Astra H excepted).

French brands seem to be the worst of all. Which is a pity - I used to be a big fan of Peugeot in the 90s.

But whether something is ugly is subjective. Part of the design philosophy of the Renault Megane was to create something that was reasonably interesting/attractive to look at when stuck in traffic jams... I think it worked. I'd much rather look at the back of a Megane than an SUV.

I also think its a good thing that Euro cars tend to push the envelope and generate opinions and emotions - unlike most of the ho-hum stuff turned out by Japan/Korea. I think it's the Euros that advance the industry by taking chances. The Japanese just copy, and the Americans just keep building SUV's. Remember the 307 was I think one of the (if not the) first of the taller 'monospace' hatches. Now just about all hatches are like that, so in that sense, at least, Peugeot had their finger on the pulse.

And if the Nissan Tiida isn't a Megane front grafted to a 307 rear I don't know what it is. Maybe automotive Frankenstein.

[rjastra]

And if the Nissan Tiida isn't a Megane front grafted to a 307 rear I don't know what it is. Maybe automotive Frankenstein.


I will give you a hint... Renault has a controlling interest in Nissan.....

[Namus]

i don't see what's so good about the Megane's rear...i don't dislike; but i have no interest in it either...i don't look at it when I'm stuck in traffic jams either...but that's just my PO

[Red AH SRI T]

I will give you a hint... Renault has a controlling interest in Nissan.....

that has nothing to do with the Tiida's styling

I used to work for Renault and although they have a controlling interest in Nissan they do not share stylists.
Renault boght nissan to save nissan and use their expertise in auto transmissions and small engines, whilst nissan will benifit from renaults extensive diesel knowhow. However styling remains completley seperate

[JasonGilholme]

i have to agree that nissan do tend to follow the euro design slightly. have a look at the 350Z How big of a difference was that from the last one in the line and not to mention the new GTR that is supposed to be comin out soon.

[180HOA]

i don't see what's so good about the Megane's rear...i don't dislike; but i have no interest in it either...i don't look at it when I'm stuck in traffic jams either...but that's just my PO

My point wasn't that the back of the Megane is spectacular. Maybe sometimes people in design take themselves too seriously :p Basically I was just saying that I don't think something is ugly just because it's different to what 95% of people have. Goven the choice between a Megane, and something that isn't seen us 'ugly', but is bland and has no character at all - I'd take the Megane any day.

[Red AH SRI T]

i love the look of megane, alomst bought a Megane Dynamique LX 3Dr instead of my Astra H

[pred8r]

i almost bought a citroen c2 VTR.

HOT little car....F'D gearbox design though, that and it was only $2k cheaper and had 30,000kms more than a new one.

[Red AH SRI T]

yeah i agree about the C2, i took one for a drive and loved the drive of the car but the gearbox completley f~ucked it up it is so fuc~king bad

Shame on you Citroen :(

[Namus]

meh, i'd just take a Subie Liberty 3.0RB...

[pred8r]

yeah i agree about the C2, i took one for a drive and loved the drive of the car but the gearbox completley f~ucked it up it is so fuc~king bad

Shame on you Citroen :(

If theyd done a manual only, fine, or a tiptronic copy, fair nuff, but that weird thing.....youd need to learn to drive with both feet just to take off 'normal', No thanks.

[Red AH SRI T]

i had no problems taking off in it, but i hated when u were going flat out and u changed gears it would lurch forward and jerk like it was possesed by the devil

[JP Dyno]

i highly doubt we'll have a problem with chinese cars flooding any markets. The chinese market for cars is so huge they cant even make enough cars for themselves, let alone enough to export

[Red AH SRI T]

yeah and their first car to be exported to Europe was the first car ever to score a ZERO in the EURONCAP test

it will be a long long time before we see chinese cars here

[CJB]

What's an example of a Chinese car??? a Buick what???

[Red AH SRI T]

no like not a chinese built car thats already on sale elsewhere, but and actual chinese car

like that 4X4 that looks just like Frontera, it scored a serzo in the saftey ratings

[CJB]

They should just stick with what they know how to do best!

Making Westernised Chinese Food :p

[Red AH SRI T]

although chinese built cars aren't good quality, just look at the VW Polo sedan, it has been slammed for its poor quality

[CJB]

although chinese built cars aren't good quality, just look at the VW Polo sedan, it has been slammed for its poor quality
Isn't VW like the BEST for quality and safety? Their pricing seems to reflect such an idea...................

[180HOA]

Generally yeah, but the Polo Sedan is built in China.

Basically VW are experimenting, and the Guniea Piags are people who buy the Polo sedan.

Black AH, is the SUV that scored zero that Landwind thingy?

[Mr T]

Zafira's for the Aussie market are built in Tailand...I dont think there is any quality issues between our Belgium Astra's and Tailand Zafira's ! ! !

The chinese engineered and developed cars might be a different story...sorta reminds me of those Russian Lada's hehehe....Motor Mag said they have a tendency to "fall over" hehehe

[Red AH SRI T]

Generally yeah, but the Polo Sedan is built in China.

Basically VW are experimenting, and the Guniea Piags are people who buy the Polo sedan.

Black AH, is the SUV that scored zero that Landwind thingy?

yes, it looks like a copy of the Frontera

[CJB]

yes, it looks like a copy of the Frontera

But with no safety right???

[Red AH SRI T]

i dont think the Frontera had safety to begin with!!!

[CJB]

i dont think the Frontera had safety to begin with!!!

Ok - so the Frontera with... hmm... well with a poor quality build right down to the tightness of the screws holding the doors on them :p

[ronj]

China has flooded the market with cheaper products in all areas of sales. I think it is just a matter of time before they will do it with cars. Sure they have a huge market for cars at home they will fill that and start exporting. I predict within 5 years we will start to see a flood of chinese produced cars. look at the motor scooter market it has started already you can buy a chinese made scooter for under $2000.

[CJB]

Was the car in the Back to the Future movies made in China??? Cos if so... I'd buy one of them :)

[GeeeAus]

The thing about a shift to capitalism is that it doesn't confine itself to its' own home market.

China's economy is still very slow by world standards and it is far more profitable for China to build cars for us, the Americans, the British etc. than to sell them locally.

In typical capitalist style, the workers will miss out so the business itself can be the winner.

Expect Chinese cars soon, but don't right them off. I think the days where a product's country of origin having any meaningful significance, are long gone.

Either the product has a sound basis and design, or it doesn’t…..

It's a free for all in today’s GLOBAL economy, just wait and see.

China is an economic time bomb, and it's ticking......

GeeeAus

[CJB]

Yeah I am told Ross Llewllyn Holden here in town are out of all XC's now. Even the caryard itself doesn't have any out the front. They are apparently only getting a few more in and they aren't for show, they are for people that ordered them ages ago...

Can't believe they sold out of black! I would have to say I think black has been the biggest seller in the Barina's over the last two years, followed by silver. Blackie can you actually confirm which colour is most popular? I hated that lilac colour. I imagine they would have had PLENTY of them in stock... ha ha