What is the best high performance petrol?

[Brett]

i was told Bp Ultimate is the best high octane fuel, but I have heard that Vortex 98 is even better? anyone heard this or tried vortex 98?

[GAZ914]

My simple testing over the past few months (ie fill up with different brands and compare mileage from each) shows that Vortex is #1 with BP a smidge behind at #2.

Mobil (which I used to use religiously) is last by a mile (or should that be kilometre?)

The difference? Well consumption on Mobil has dropped to over 9 l/100 kms. BP I get around 8.5 l/100 kms and Caltex I get about 8.3 l/100 kms.

I used to get 8 l/100 kms from Mobil but i noticed it getting worse over time and so changed fuels to experiment.

I do around 115 km per weekday so I use about 1.5 tanks per week.

cheers
GAZ

[Anonymous]

best high performace juice is avgas :lol:

[Anonymous]

ive read on other forums that the tunners recomend BP but as no two cars are the same try them all and see for your self just like gaz

[woody]

I've used BP Ultimate and Shell Optimax.. Ultimate is better for performance (in my car anyway) but it seems to make it run rougher.. Optimax.. yeah s'ok waiting to run the tank dry so i can try Vortex.

[lowey22]

ive also found ultimate to be the best, however i have not tried vortex. might try it soon as my tenk is getting a bit low. however i like to throw in some nulon octane boast every now and then, it deffinately makes a difference...

[sri48u]

Vortex 98 by far!

[ultim8DTM5]

Search, I posted up a lot of testing done by an industrial chemist on the matter

[Caly2c]

Yep Vortex 98 for sure. I get good mileage and performance from that. Ive tried Mobil and Shell but to me they dont seem as good

[Kwijy]

I vote ultimate.. but i'll give vortex a go next time and take notice, i think i've used it once and i was pretty happy with it.

[RudeOne]

Vortex is the only way to go..

[break]

I don't know alot about Vortex, but I do know alot about BP Ultimate and Shell Optimax so I will discuss them.

BP Ultime is a high octane fuel garanteed to be at least 98 octane throughout the mixture. It contains no agents, its the purest form of fuel you can get from a pump.

Shell Optimax is a high oxtane fuel with an average of 98 octane throughout the batch. It contains a number of cleaning agents, but the fact remains that long term use of these agents can cause build up inside your engine.

BP Ultimate consistantly produces more horsepower on the dyno than Shell Optimax. Optimax tends to help with fuel economy more, but also has the problems of the cleaning agents.

I'm assuming that Vortex is actually Shell Optimax as Caltex and Shell receive thier fuel from the same refinery in Australia (in fact... all fuel companies do except BP which have thier own refinery).

I personally don't use anything other than BP Ultimate, but at the end of the day it really all comes down to what your car is tuned for, and what your engine responds better to.

[ultim8DTM5]

All boutique fuels are regular 91/2RON with octane booster. I've seen them add it to the massive storage tanks.

[peenuthead]

Optimax works well in my mota

[GAZ914]

I'm assuming that Vortex is actually Shell Optimax as Caltex and Shell receive thier fuel from the same refinery in Australia (in fact... all fuel companies do except BP which have thier own refinery).


Assumptions are dangerous.

Shell Site (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=au-en&FC2=/au-en/html/iwgen/leftnavs/zzz_lhn2_0_0.html&FC3=/au-en/html/iwgen/about_shell/geelong/dir_geelong_0709.html)

Shell Geelong

2004 sees the 50th anniversary of Shell Geelong Refinery in operation.

Shell Geelong Refinery was commissioned in 1954 and is the bigger and more complex of Shell’s two Australian refineries (the other being Clyde Refinery, near Sydney). Geelong Refinery occupies 245 hectares on the shores of Corio Bay, 60 km from Melbourne. It is one of Shell’s most sophisticated refineries worldwide, is a leader in industrial technology and workforce safety, with continual improvements in environmental protection and stakeholder involvement.


BP Site (http://www.bp.com.au/refineries/refineries.asp?menuid=d)

BP's petroleum products are manufactured by refining crude oil at the company's refineries at Kwinana in Western Australia and Bulwer Island in Queensland.

A particular feature of the Australian oil industry is the practice of refinery exchange, in which refining companies exchange products in various locations to minimise distribution costs. For example, BP supplies other companies in Perth and Brisbane and in return is supplied with product in Melbourne, Sydney and Tasmania.

Caltex Site (http://www.caltex.com.au/corporate_com_fac.asp)

Caltex owns and operates two fuels refineries with a combined capacity of 230,000 barrels per day (bpd) making Caltex the largest refiner of crude oil in Australia.
The Kurnell refinery is located on the southern shore of Botany Bay in Sydney's south east and has a crude oil capacity of 124,500 bpd. Commissioned in 1956, it is the largest refinery in NSW and the second largest of the eight fuels refineries in Australia based on crude run capacity. The Kurnell refinery produces 49% petrol, 22% diesel, 15% jet fuel, 5% fuel oils, 4% LPG/butane/RGP, 1% bitumen and 4% in a mix of lubricating oil base stocks, waxes and other products such as process oils and sulphur.

The Lytton fuels refinery is located at the mouth of the Brisbane River south of the Brisbane CBD. The refinery has a 105,500 bpd capacity. It was commissioned in 1965 and is the largest refinery in Queensland and fifth largest fuels refinery in Australia. The Lytton refinery produces 50% petrol, 30% diesel, 12% kerosene and jet fuels, 2% fuel oil and 1% gas and LPG. The remaining 5% of product is used by the refinery in its operations.

Caltex also owns and operates a 3,750 bpd lubricating oil refinery located adjacent to the Kurnell fuels refinery in Sydney.

Mobil Site (http://www.mobil.com.au/index.asp)

Facilities & Operations

Mobil Oil Australia supplies fuels, lubricating oils and special petroleum products to industrial and commercial customers, as well as to motorists, throughout Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands.


Altona Refinery Altona Refinery supplies half of Victoria's crude oil requirements and around 13% of Australia's total fuel needs. The refinery produces petrol, diesel and jet fuel.

Adelaide Refinery Adelaide Refinery ceased production operations in mid-2003. The Refinery is to be maintained in a condition that will allow a future re-start.

[mr_sikma]

I think your car will run best to whatever petrol the car has been tuned with ;)

I only run BP Ultimate in my SIKMA, havent tried anything else and not going to!

[rjastra]

think your car will run best to whatever petrol the car has been tuned with

Correct answer!!

the Barina/Astra engines (1.4,1.8,2.2) will run fine on 91Ron and have a tiny amount more kW/Nm on 95Ron. 98RON is a waste of money

[Brett]

I only asked that cause the powerchip require 98ron, so which is the best 98ron

[lowey22]

think your car will run best to whatever petrol the car has been tuned with

Correct answer!!

the Barina/Astra engines (1.4,1.8,2.2) will run fine on 91Ron and have a tiny amount more kW/Nm on 95Ron. 98RON is a waste of money

??? i found a deffinate difference between 95 and 98, y is it a waste? ive added octane booster on top of that and noticed more defference again.

[Namus]

somebody beta put a poll up so we can keep track

[rjastra]

i found a deffinate difference between 95 and 98, y is it a waste? ive added octane booster on top of that and noticed more defference again.

Well... explain the scientific method in how you measured the improvement?

Considering the ECU inthe astra/barina can't compensate for fuel higher than 95RON I am wondering how all this extra performance eventuated.

Use of increased RON fuel doesn't mean a car will produce more power. The most cost effective octanc fuel to use is the one the car was designed for. In the case of normally aspirated astras and barinas that is 95RON. Using 98RON fuel is a complete waste of money.

I reckon if we did blind tests between 95RON and 98RON fuels no one here could tell the difference.

[Kwijy]

I havn't seen 95RON anywhere.. where do you get it from? Is there a difference in price between 95 and 98?

[break]

the Barina/Astra engines (1.4,1.8,2.2) will run fine on 91Ron and have a tiny amount more kW/Nm on 95Ron. 98RON is a waste of moneyActually... I have a dyno proven 6kw (10%) gain with my 1.4L Corsa C using BP Ultimate fuel.

This was dyno at a dyno day last year at GRP automotive in Brisbane... I have my dyno sheet here but no scanner :(

[break]

Well... explain the scientific method in how you measured the improvement?

Considering the ECU inthe astra/barina can't compensate for fuel higher than 95RON I am wondering how all this extra performance eventuated.

Use of increased RON fuel doesn't mean a car will produce more power. The most cost effective octanc fuel to use is the one the car was designed for. In the case of normally aspirated astras and barinas that is 95RON. Using 98RON fuel is a complete waste of money.

I reckon if we did blind tests between 95RON and 98RON fuels no one here could tell the difference.Wrong.

I'll copy and paste my description of a 'knock sensor' from a previous thread to give you an idea on how modern engines cope with higher octane fuel.


See... there is this think called a knock sensor. Your engine (upon startup) will slowly and slightly advance the timing to the highest point possible without 'pinging' which will trip off the knock sensor. This is a very random process, and there really isn't much anyone can do about playing with the setting unless you have a programable ECU (which you would find a good tune in the first place, not constantly change it). The point of 'pinging' in a car is determined alot by two main factors. One, is the octane of a fuel, and the second is the oxygen content in the air. Obviously, its hard to get optimal air conditions (ie. pure oxygen into the engine) and also hard to get consistant fuel octane (putting BP ultimate in my engine is garanteed for 98 octane... but that doesn't mean part of the batch could be 99 or 100 octane etc.). This is the reason cars tend to get 'sluggish' during hot days, as heat will disperse the oxygen in the air more, as well as increase internal heat in the engine (another factor... but a 'lesser' factor than fuel/air). On the rare occasion, your car can produce a handfull of kilowatts more thanks to higher oxygen content in the air, and good fuel in the tank.

[rjastra]

I havn't seen 95RON anywhere..

ummm... it's what is commonly called premium unleaded.


Actually... I have a dyno proven 6kw (10%) gain with my 1.4L Corsa C using BP Ultimate fuel

Compared to what? regular ULP or PULP? Was it done on the same day? same dyno? some dyno settings.


I'll copy and paste my description of a 'knock sensor' from a previous thread to give you an idea on how modern engines cope with higher octane fuel.


In fact I think you will find the the ECU/engine is setup to work at its optimum on 95RON fuel. The ECU tries to run constantly at these settings until it encounters pinging. Then it retards timing etc until the pinging stops.
Putting 98RON fuel in the car has no benefit as the ECU has no fueling/timing mappings for this fuel.

[Anonymous]

edit

[woody]

BP Ultime is a high octane fuel garanteed to be at least 98 octane throughout the mixture. It contains no agents, its the purest form of fuel you can get from a pump.


Break. Depends on what you call agents: Agree its the purest form of fuel from the pump but even Ultimate has agents - these aid in the cleaning properties of the fuel and (in some cars) the performace gains:

Quote from the BP Ultimate material saftey data sheet regarding the composition of the fuel:


2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
A complex mixture of volatile hydrocarbons containing paraffins, naphthenes, olefins and aromatics with carbon numbers predominantly between C4 and C12.

May contain oxygenates. May also contain small quantities of proprietary
performance additives.

Hazardous Components
Benzene, EINECS No. 200-753-7, CAS No. 71-43-2 F, T, R45 May cause cancer, R11 Highly flammable, R48/23/24/25 Toxic: Danger of serious damage to health by prolonged exposure through inhalation, in contact with skin and if swallowed.
Gasoline, EINECS No: 289-220-8, CAS No: 86290-81-5, T, R45 May cause cancer, R65 Harmful: may cause lung damage if swallowed, R38 Irritating to skin.
(>90%)

and a link to the doc for those who are interested:


http://www.msds.bp.com.au/pdf/ref_626_BP_Ultimate.pdf

[break]

Actually... I have a dyno proven 6kw (10%) gain with my 1.4L Corsa C using BP Ultimate fuel

Compared to what? regular ULP or PULP? Was it done on the same day? same dyno? some dyno settings.Compared to multiple results from different people with the same car running 91 ron fuel on the same dyno (this was said to me by the dyno operature who showed me previous saved results from the same model of car previously... I did not actually see any other Corsa C's on the dyno on that day, however). My results are also 10% more than one of the other members here who put thier car on the dyno and posted thier results (they had 47kw @ wheels... I have ~54kw).



I'll copy and paste my description of a 'knock sensor' from a previous thread to give you an idea on how modern engines cope with higher octane fuel.
In fact I think you will find the the ECU/engine is setup to work at its optimum on 95RON fuel. The ECU tries to run constantly at these settings until it encounters pinging. Then it retards timing etc until the pinging stops.
Putting 98RON fuel in the car has no benefit as the ECU has no fueling/timing mappings for this fuel.No, your missing the point. A knock sensor WILL change the mapping of a car to allow for even higher octanes of fuel. Because this is a mechanical process, gains are usually much smaller than propper tuning.... but there are still gains to be had by putting in higher octane fuel (to some degree.... as the higher the octane, the slower it burns).

[rjastra]

No, your missing the point. A knock sensor WILL change the mapping of a car to allow for even higher octanes of fuel.

This is how it works.....



Based on its programming,
the PCM advances spark to a preset level for
different conditions. The preset spark advance
is typically close to the knock point because
the system relies on the knock sensor as a
warning device.
Most knock sensors send a base or “no
knocking” reference signal to the PCM.
If knocking occurs, the sensor detects the
increased vibration and increases its signal
to the PCM. The PCM then slightly retards
timing until the sensor signal returns to the
reference level.
If a temporary condition caused the knock,
the PCM will set spark timing to the
programmed advance. If the knock returns,
the PCM will cycle spark timing, advancing
timing until knock is encountered and then
retarding timing until the knock is gone.


In other words if the engine was designed and tested to run optimally on 95RON fuel then the base maps will be configured for the that fuel. If you run 91RON fuel it may detect pinging and retard timing etc etc to eliminate it.
If you run 98RON fuel in the car it will have no better performance than the 95RON fuel simply because the ECU will still run with the standard maps. It has no mystical power to determine that the fuel being used is of a higher octane and what "new" maps to use.


On modern engines with sophisticated engine management systems, the engine
can operate efficiently on fuels of a wider range of octane rating, but there
remains an optimum octane for the engine under specific driving conditions......
If you are already using the proper octane fuel, you will not obtain more
power from higher octane fuels. The engine will be already operating at
optimum settings, and a higher octane should have no effect on the management
system. Your driveability and fuel economy will remain the same. The higher
octane fuel costs more, so you are just throwing money away.

[Brett]

I said which is the best 98ron petrol to use, I already use BP ultimate, but wanted to know which is the best

[Dave R32]

Nearly everyone I know in the Audi / VW world use BP Ultimate. Bear in mind that most these cars are turbo'd and have had ECU re-maps etc.

My Golf R32 certainly runs better with BP according to old fashioned butt dyno !!!!!

Cheers
Dave.

[Mrs T]

I have no technical experience or knowledge.

However i have an Astra Turbo and from new i used Shell Optimax all the time everytime (someone else swore by it) although about 6 months ago i noticed that it was making noises when i accelertated and was running a bit rough i thought it was a bad batch of fuel so i ran another couple of tanks and it didnt get any better. I then decided to try another brand of fuel (BP Ultimate) and i found that the car is running alot smoother and not making the noise on cold acceleration.

As i said i am no expert it is just what happened in my instance.

I have not tried the vortex but people have told me that its good fuel.

I couldnt tell you which petrol gave you more performance i think that it would be mi nute (spelling :oops: ) I think it would be trial and error on what your car likes and how you think it performs. If everyone agreed on which fuel was best everyone would use the same brand. I think its more personal opinion

Dont think ive helped much sorry :oops:

[rjastra]

I read one article that suggested that you change your brand of fuel every 8-10K Km. It was to do with buildups of the byproducts of the additives and deteregents in the fuel. Changing fuels stopped this from happening. The new fuels different additives and detergents removed the old buildups.

Not sure if I agree with it.

[gmtech]

Hello

Glad I am back in melbourne and surely glad to check this site out again.
When we test our cars we do run with different RON Fuel ratings/levels. The best one in my opinion here in the Australian market will have to be the BP product with Shell product coming very close. In Dubai where we were testing our Opel cars in extreme hot conditions we found the BP and Mobil products meet the requirments need to push these cars to there limits. All of our Opel "z" type configuration motors do perform expetionally better on the high octane level. We had done some long testing over some extreme temp's in the excess of 50.c and these motors where stripped down and inspected for wear and heat stress. The motors with the high octane would perform exceptionally well and would not lean out on cruise. Log onto some of the petrol company sites and do read some information about the different types of fuel available..

GMTECH