Anyone know much about Traffic infringements?

[adam_92]

Basically coming home from work out of the cbd the other night, 5.30pm and there had been an accident/breakdown in the middle of the main road, traffic was a nightmare as expected and I was sat in a long line at red traffic lights. Im type 1 diabetic and felt my blood sugars getting low so I quickly tried to check my levels with the finger pricker and monitor, just then, the copper attending the accident/breakdown walks past my car then turns back and comes to my driver side window and tells me to pull into a business entrance down the road. He then proceeded to write me a ticket for using a mobile phone even though I had argued and showed him the blood glucose meter and the drop of blood on my finger tip. He was having none of it and gave me the ticket...

My issue now is that im on 12 months good behaviour and only have 2 demerits for the 12 months. The fine is 3 demerits and $360 which means loss of licence for 6 months, which is going to really f*** my chances of getting an apprenticeship and being able to pay for a wedding next march...

I am seeking legal advice but cant get an appointment til monday so thought I'd ask the question here to see if anyone could shed some light on it and what my chances of getting off with a warning are???

[chris_r]

Only someone who is an expert in traffic related legal matters will be able to give you a realistic idea about what might happen if you challenge the infringement.

Also go to Vodafail and see if you can pull your phone usage records. If there's no sign of you using your phone at that time, they won't have a leg to stand on.

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[dutchy]

well, i'd fight this. Don't think showing your phone bill will do the trick because calls made where no-one answered the phone, will not show. You'd be at the grace of the judge but I think you've got a fair case. People have been let off for worse offences.

[adam_92]

Bill wont really dp anything. The copper said, even checking the time on your phone is an offence, as is using a gps while driving, he also said if I really want to be an arsehole I could even do someone for changing radio stations. He was a complete prick.

[chris_r]

Bill wont really dp anything. The copper said, even checking the time on your phone is an offence, as is using a gps while driving, he also said if I really want to be an arsehole I could even do someone for changing radio stations. He was a complete prick.

Cops are nothing more than state tax collectors and will usually come up with any excuse to raise money for their employers. The radio is part of the vehicle's controls, so I don't see how he can book you for changing stations, volume, etc. If the item is fixed into a permanent position, it's part of the vehicle. To me, for him to say that means his case is shaky at best, as it sounds like he wasn't all that confident in issuing the fine in the first place. Every time I've heard something along the lines "If I wanted to, I could ping you for .....", it sounds like "I'm not sure, but I expect that I've scared you enough into not wanting to challenge this".

By all means, don't take it lying down and challenge it. You've got more to lose if you don't and chances are given your medical condition and employment status, you'll have more chance of getting away with a warning. Quite possibly, you'll still have to pay the fine and maybe have the good behaviour period extended or other conditions applied (ie travel restrictions to work), but I don't see the magistrate wanting to put you in a position of complete hardship for a minor traffic offence, had it been a DUI, you'd be fooked.

[faneca]

Check your blood testers readings, it should have a time stamp on it for the last 30 readings. Which you should be able to get a copy of?

[adam_92]

The time and date arent set correctly on my meter. Otherwise I would have done that

[sooty]

My guess would be they would tell you that you aren't allowed to use your tester either. Therefore you're trying to get off on a technicality that he wrote you up for the wrong thing. Not sure how successful you would be but if it's going to really impact stuff then you haven't really got any option but to try and fight jt

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[adam_92]

My thoughts exactly Ain. They will ptobably say that I should have pulled over and checked them, even though I was stopped at lights and there was nowhere to stop safely on the road. I guess we just gotta wait and see what happens.

[DRMAT]

Unless there's something in the law specifically saying you cannot check your blood on the tester then you can do it, there is no offence. Same as you can use a CB radio while driving but not a phone, or drink from a can or change your radio station. What you cannot do is play with your GPS or phone at all but that's it. Fight it all the way, half the time the cop doesn't even show up.

[Vectracious]

The time and date arent set correctly on my meter. Otherwise I would have done that

I was going to suggest this Adam but since the meter wasn't set up with the right date and time you won't be able to use it as evidence. It's a shame your friendly pharmacist didn't set the date and time on your meter (something I do when I sell one) :p

[adam_92]

Yeah I got it from the endocrinologist whenni was last there for a checkup. Its a brand new meter (maybe a month old) its an accucheck mobile. My old meter was set up right but I hadnt bothered with this one.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

[Vectracious]

Good meter that.

I reckon you've got a good chance of fighting it. You can obviously prove you're a diabetic (NDSS membership/letter from your doctor), you can understand why the policeman thought that you were using a mobile phone as the mobile meter looks very similar to one, and the whole point of the Accuchek mobile is so people can do a quick BGL test on the go and not mucking around putting strips etc in.

[mondo]

i've got a mate who is Highway Patrol. would you like me to ask him what he thinks?

[adam_92]

Exactly pete. I dont think it helped me that the meter actualy says mobile on the front.

Thats the reason why I tried to check them, it takes a whole 10 seconds to prick and drop the blood on, as you say, no fiiddling with opening test strips etc. I felt my bsl starting to get low (shaking hands etc) and I know I need to be 5.0 or above to drive.

[adam_92]

If you could mondo, that would be great! Thanks.

[mondo]

sending you a PM

[OPC1]

The time and date arent set correctly on my meter. Otherwise I would have done that

When you say they're not correct, do you mean they're just wrong, or they're not working at all? If they're set for 2012, then printing off the timestamp of your reading at the same time as the current time/date on your monitor should show how long ago your reading was taken. I'm assuming it's done to the second (or at least the minute)? Preferably done in the presence of you doctor (who can sign a stat dec if necessary).

Basically, the cops are so used to people who ARE using mobile phones making excuses, that they don't bother to listen - they just expect you to pay or take it to court. And as far as mobiles are concerned, I'm right with them on that. Having had to emergency brake or swerve well over a hundred times on my motorcycle to avoid "mobile-induced swerving", I reckon anyone who uses a hand-held mobile in a car should have it immediately crushed (and their hand crushed as well, if they were texting). I'd reckon phones are about 5 times more dangerous than speeding, about the equivalent of DUI.

Unsure of the possibilities in SA for having it solved before you get to court (which can be expensive, even if you are found to be not at fault), so I can't offer advice there.

[DRMAT]

Might be worth talking to the OIC at whatever station the issuing officer came from, take your blood meter with you and explain it all. You never know they may actually be reasonable and save the trouble of going to court over it.

[adam_92]

Possibly. Im not even sure which station he is from. Il go check that out.

[adam_92]

So I got some legal advice this morning. I was basically told to send a letter to expiation branch explaining my side of the story which is pretty much pointless but worth a try. Then elect to be prosecuted which lifts the fine and sends it to court then I will receive a summons to court, then send another letter to the prosecutors, hopefully they drop the charges if they read my side before the court date, then if not, il habe to go to court and argue my side, he has no proof that I was using my phone, only that I was doing 'something' on my lap out of his sight which he assumed was me texting.

[dutchy]

So I got some legal advice this morning. I was basically told to send a letter to expiation branch explaining my side of the story which is pretty much pointless but worth a try. Then elect to be prosecuted which lifts the fine and sends it to court then I will receive a summons to court, then send another letter to the prosecutors, hopefully they drop the charges if they read my side before the court date, then if not, il habe to go to court and argue my side, he has no proof that I was using my phone, only that I was doing 'something' on my lap out of his sight which he assumed was me texting.

I'd do that mate, would be too crazy if they can give you a fine because they assumed you were doing something.

[adam_92]

Exactly. There is no solid proof that I was using my phone

[dutchy]

This just shows they are filling their quota. Not a case of they got no proof.... it's up to you to prove you werent using a phone.

[chris_r]

I'm guessing the other thing that could be working in your favour too Adam, is that when the cop pulled you over and asked if you know what he pulled you over for, you probably said no you don't. From what I've been told, if you say yes I was using my phone or I was speeding, etc, you've screwed yourself in admitting guilt to the offence he'll then slap you with. Cops will do anything to get an admission of guilt as it will make the fine stand up in court. If they can't get said admission of guilt, then it's apparently up for dispute in court and the onus of proof is then on the police officer.

Also, I believe at the time that you were pinged, there was a SAPOL operation underway specifically targeting the use of phones whilst driving. Whether or not this could affect your case, I don't know.

[OPC1]

This just shows they are filling their quota. Not a case of they got no proof.... it's up to you to prove you werent using a phone.

Not strictly true, dutchy. I pull up alongside people at the lights, and they've got their mobiles on their lap and they're busily tapping away. Taking a reading on your mobile monitor would look similar. As these people keep sitting at the lights (finishing their texting or Facebooking) long after the lights have changed, but can hide the mobile fairly quickly, I say book 'em and let 'em fight it in court. There are the odd Mars Bar and blood monitor mistakes - which should be able to be rectified quickly. But, 98% of the time, it's mobile phone usage.

But Adam should have quickly gone in to either his doctor, blood specialist, or the guys who sell the monitor - to make sure he has a definite correct time for when he took his test that he was booked for. If you think someone's done you wrong, you prepare to defend yourself, by making sure you have evidence to the contrary. Then he can do what DRMAT said. If you don't go on the front foot, then it's the same as giving up and paying the fine.

[mondo]

it isn't cheap to go to court if you happen to lose. bear that in mind

[OPC1]

it isn't cheap to go to court if you happen to lose. bear that in mind

Absolutely. It's not even cheap to go to court if you win. It's very unlikely to be awarded costs when going to court for traffic. Always try to exhaust the other avenues first.

[adam_92]

So... thought this had been dropped due to lack of evidence or whatever.

Couple of days ago I got a knock on the door from 2 cops with a summons to attend court, mid january.

On the summons there is a statement from the cop saying he was standing on the footpath which he wasn't. He was crossing the road from the centre median strip where there had been a breakdown/accident. He then goes on to say he witnessed me holding the phone in my right hand, holding it to my right ear on a call and when he got to the car I ended the conversation. Iv brought up my phone bill with the breakdown/records and there is no call history for the date I was done, never mind the time I got done. The closest phone calls were the day nefore and day after...

Would this be enough proof in court that I wasnt using my phone?

Is there anything I can do to save the hassles of going to court etc? Would taking my phone records into the local cop shop with the summons and statement benefit me in any way? Could the police drop the charges etc?

[sooty]

Maybe try discussing with the actual officer who is alleging against you? The event happened long enoygh ago I'm sure details like where he was wouldn't be in his memory. If he was in the median it makes more sense with him saying right hand and right ear.

Doubt they have the time to discuss though, that's what court is for

[adam_92]

Nah the statement thing is actually part of the expiation notice that gets issues on the spot. The bit I got didnt have it but the piece that the police keep has the information/notes that the cop takes

[MitchSRi]

Time to get yourself legal representation.

The courts will always lean towards the statement of a sworn in Police Officer, over a regular civilian.

You are going to need to speak with a lawyer and get them to work with you on this one. Either that or cop the punishment sweet.

The matter is before the courts now, so don't go into your local cop shop. You will need to make arrangements to be in court that day to argue your case with a solicitor.

[vekara]

There are a couple of things you need to argue in court, the ticket is at the discretion of the officer and the court can overturn that. If you did get a ticket for using a mobile phone and you did not then the fine is invalid and will be dismissed, you just have to prove it. Maybe the evidence is showing that it was a medical situation and you had to use a glucose meter. were you stationary or moving? was your car in park or drive mode? was the handbrake activated?
Anything that takes your attention from traffic and driving can be worth a ticket. It is called "not in full control of a vehicle" . Elbow out of the window, smoking, drinking, eating, brushing your hair or just picking your nose. if you take one hand off the wheel to wave hello to someone you may be fined.

[MitchSRi]

At one stage in NSW it was "no handheld devices" in a car, and that could provide a problem for you if still the case.

Best bet is contacting a lawyer in your local state and going from there.