And now, Toyota.

[chris_r]

Well, it seems Toyota is following Holden and Ford out the door and the Australian car manufacturing industry will die off in 2017.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/toyota/toyota-closure-to-cause-%E2%80%98potential-recession%E2%80%99-says-union-41554

And I hope the AMWU are happy with what they've acheived for their members.

[faneca]

Just seen this, sad day but realisticly it was expected

[chris_r]

Problem is, those unions just go too far. I'm no business genius (although coming from a business background), but even I realise that fair working conditions work both ways. Employee welfare doesn't come cheap, but neither does profitability. Unions are supposed to be all about fairness, but it doesn't mean squat when the business can no longer afford to operate, due to increased production costs as a result of these conditions.

[hazrd]

Problem is, those unions just go too far. I'm no business genius (although coming from a business background), but even I realise that fair working conditions work both ways. Employee welfare doesn't come cheap, but neither does profitability. Unions are supposed to be all about fairness, but it doesn't mean squat when the business can no longer afford to operate, due to increased production costs as a result of these conditions.

^^^^ this 100%

[Wraith]

No surprise, was always going to be on the cards after what's happened to the rest of the associated industries...

[gman]

Unions doing what unions do best, destroy the working classroom proletariat as they call their members....

Unions are a virus that work to kill the economy they live in while they live on the fat of others hard work!!

In the Unions world, it's simple, let's ignore long term realities leech off their working members, screw over businesses they have no vested interest in so the union hierarchy can live like fatted lambs. Well for the AMWU the slaughter has come, only I fear it's the members and not those that deserve it most that will pay.

[DirtyHarry]

i highly doubt its all unions fault. if it wasnt for the unions we'd all be working under 18th century conditions. The Liberals are using the unions as a excuse. But i think the simple fact is, these big manufactures dont want to put money into Australia. They dont want to update, streamline and make things efficient. Look at Germany. All unionised, excellent pay, yet they manage to produce a shit load of cars. And im sure there are dozen countries like that.
I was reading somewhere, that one of the main reasons why Holden left Australia, is because they just didnt want to update their equipment to be more efficient.
Im not a big supporter of either party, but something tells me that the Liberals want to stick a knife into the unions, that way they can bring in work choices again (obviously under a different name), and create a even bigger gap between the rich and poor. Just look at America.

[dutchy]

for GM and Toyota (as with all other manufacturers), it's all about the bottom line and their shareholders. By shifting either to the home country (and keep their own governments happy and creating local jobs) or to a country where costs to produce are lower (hence better for bottom line). They don't care if people lose their jobs in other countries, it so happens to be that in the USA, jobs have risen massively mainly due to more American companies shifting back to their home country. Coincidentally GM has had a massive year and there is even margin to double the salary of their new ceo to over 14 million a year. At the end of the day, we'll have to buy cars anyway no matter where they are manufactured or even when quality is less than we used to get. In the old days you bought a washing machine that would last you at least 30 years, warranties were 10 years as well ! Then manufacturing shifted to cheaper countries and we still buy the washing machines but now, if you're lucky, it'll only last 10 years.

[Zoom]

I dont have a big problem if the car manufacturers leave. It basically means that their business model is no longer suited for our market. Sad that it is, people lose their jobs, It even effects me because I have direct business in robotic automation with them. But I will pick up other work. Its a natural evolution for all business models to eventually fail if the market doesn't suit. History shows that.

I wonder though if Opel will have another go at the Aussie market now?

Zoom!

[gman]

Toyota didn't want to destroy the Unions, all they wanted was to put to the employees a set of proposals for them to vote on. As this would have "cut" the Unions out of the process, they challenged it and went to court, despite what was in the best interests of the employees and its own members.

As for Unions protecting all and sundry from 18th century working conditions, hardly...OH&S, as well as various legislative elements ensure minimum wages, maximum hours, holidays etc. Saying this is akin to arguing that it was the Unions that stopped child slavery and sending them all to the cotton mills...

Unions have a place, to give one voice to a sea of faceless employees. However, Unions (IMHO) have no place in dictating how a business should be run. If conditions are so bad, then people will not work there or the legislation (with proper enforcement) will shut it down.

Unions have become nothing more than self serving thugs that reap millions in fee's from working class members so the higher ups Union elite can live above the proletariat minions they are sponging off.

I have seen first hand the heavy handed efforts of unions on work sites and at the container terminals. Bikie gang enforcers are less intimidating than the "muscle" unions used to use, especially when they turn up at your girl friends parents place at 1am demanding to be let in to "speak" with someone who's not there.....

Yeah, that's looking after your members in a fair and legal manner....

[Zoom]

I have seen first hand the heavy handed efforts of unions on work sites and at the container terminals.

I have too Gman.

I was in the middle of a plant development for a NZ company setting up in Laveton Victoria, they end up going off shore because the unions cost them 20 million in loss, during a new beverage plant installation, all due to union stoppages. They cut their costs and left Australia. ****ing sad stuff.

I am currently in the middle of software developments for Patricks at the Sydney Port Botany, who are getting rid of most of the wharf jobs and unions and replacing it all with a fully automated robotic wharf. My company is developing the plant wide software project. You wouldn't believe the union debacle going on there. It has to happen to remain competitive. Here is whats replacing their jobs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmqllKyBSQ&list=PLmOfLTcu-QPfnm9cF23YL4N3jKnkZpPY8

[gman]

Not surprised...The amount of stuff that went "missing" off the wharfs and the shear number of employee unions required was INSANE!!!!! I know a guy whose father was a "wharfie", with overtime and penalties he was taking hone $200K+/annum...That's simply unsustainable...Finally it seems what goes around comes around....

[Zoom]

Not surprised...The amount of stuff that went "missing" off the wharfs and the shear number of employee unions required was INSANE!!!!! I know a guy whose father was a "wharfie", with overtime and penalties he was taking hone $200K+/annum...That's simply unsustainable...Finally it seems what goes around comes around....

I have it on good information that the saving per year to get rid of the "warfies" at Port Botany will be $600,000,000 per year. The project should be complete in 2016.

I have signed a declaration to withhold technical information. But what I am telling you is in the public domain, so all is good :P

BTW everything I say and do is monitored because I have MSIC access. So dont be surprised that because I am a member of this forum that all my posts, and everyone else's is monitored...sorry about that guys ;) ZOOM gets kicked off the forum!......

[sooty]

You aren't the only one with an MSIC so don't stress lol, I've done lots of work with Patrick's down here in Melbourne too and no1 has shut the forum down yet. :lol:

[Zoom]

You aren't the only one with an MSIC so don't stress lol, I've done lots of work with Patrick's down here in Melbourne too and no1 has shut the forum down yet. :lol:

Me too. I have spent a little time in those scary crappy Chinese built cargo cranes. But we wont go there ;)