Corsa B Engine conversion..... but what to?!?!?!

[NoX-Troniq]

I posted this here because I wanted more people to see it and get more peoples opinions.

So I recently decided that I want an engine conversion for my stock 1.4i Corsa B, but I don't know what to.

Ideally I'd love a red-top, but they are rare and hard to find in good condition without needing a rebuild these days (unless anyone can help with that, I don't know)

So my other two options are to either have a stock GSi engine put in (Replace the gaskets and clean it up best I can etc.) The reason I'm thinking of this compared to an Astra engine is because it's quite literally a drop 'n' swap.

OR

Find an Astra engine (I can't remember which one) and drop that in instead.

Now I'd like the Astra engine simply because it's bigger but I'm not sure what it's gonna be like to live with and whether or not it's likely will have any problems. I'd also like something with a stronger clutch, the reason being is because the one in mine currently is slowly wearing away and I can feel it in it's deteriorated state, that's all that really matters to me at this moment in time, however, I'll be oredering an M-Tech Shift kit for it after the conversion (Which is why I put it off for now).

Thanks for reading and I hope to get some constructive feedback from you all :)

Rikky.

chris_r, corsaford

[adam_92]

You could find a decent redtop if you search hard and have patience... a 1.6 from a gsi will still need wiring looms swapping. If you are swapping wiring looms then you may aswell go with the 1.8 z18xe astra engine. It weighs the same as the x16/c16 but its 100kw straight out of the box. And a hell of a lot more common than the 1.6 engine so parts etc are cheaper. You can pick up an engine with under 100,000kms for $500.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[NoX-Troniq]

I thought as much, thanks :)

[chris_r]

Just to add to this, the 1.8 with F15/F17 gearbox is about 40-50kgs lighter than a redtop and F20 box behind it. So really, any power difference that the redtop will have in stock form will have it running on par with the 1.8 in terms of power to weight ratios, but the 1.8 will have a slight handling advantage over the C20XE in the Corsa B.

Sure, you want big power and what not, then go for a C20XE and mod the crap out of it. But for the daily driven streeter, the Z18XE is a no-brainer. If you drive a car with a Z18XE, you'll find it's often a very smooth and free revving engine. In an Astra it's okay, but it is much more suited to the Corsa B & C models. Before I had the Z18 in my GSi, I had the C16 with the Mantzel-style "Powerbox" intake manifold. That manifold made a massive difference in top end speed and caused the engine to suffer a little down the bottom end of the rev range. Going from that to the Z18 gave me pretty much the same if not more in the top end, but was much more driveable down low too.

[NoX-Troniq]

I'm not looking massively at speed, it's pure acceleration I'm interested in, and to have a better ability on the overtake.

Ok so It's set then I guess, 1.8 it is. What kind of mods can I do with one of those engines in terms of better intake and such? Do they use fly-by-wire throttles? (I hate those things >:( )

[chris_r]

I'm not looking massively at speed, it's pure acceleration I'm interested in, and to have a better ability on the overtake.

Ok so It's set then I guess, 1.8 it is. What kind of mods can I do with one of those engines in terms of better intake and such? Do they use fly-by-wire throttles? (I hate those things >:( )

In terms of intake for the Z18, there is a dBilas intake manifold out there, but it's ridiculously overpriced and it'll net you 2/3s of SFA in power/torque, unless you have a turbo. There was a guy on eBay who was selling a clone of this particular manifold, but had stopped a couple of years ago (VX Performance, same guy who does the clone powerboxes for the C16/X16). C16/X16 manifolds also differ to the Z18, hence you cannot use a GSi powerbox intake.

Z18XE is drive by wire, X18XE1 is cable throttle, but in the Corsa B swap, you don't use either throttle, as you're using the Corsa B GSi's electronics and neither of these TBs are compatible with the GSi ECU. In my Corsa B swap, I originally used a throttle body from the GSi's C16XE and modified the cable bracket to suit. If you use a GSi throttle body, you need to redrill and tap the intake manifold where the TB mounts. I, however found another way around this in the form of a throttle body from the Holden JF Viva/Daewoo Lacetti. The Viva uses a F18D3 engine that is almost the same Opel Z18XE/X18XE1 engines, it differs in the fact it does not use a drive by wire throttle, has a different engine management system and it has a different thermostat housing that allows you to just replace the thermostat, rather than the entire housing. What this means is, the throttle body from the Viva bolts to the Z18's intake manifold without having to redrill/tap new holes, you do need a modified C14SE throttle cable (needs the inner Bowden cable to be 50mm longer and have a 5mm cable nipple fitted, Adelaide Cable Co at Regency Park charge about $35 to do it properly). The other upside to the Viva TB is the fact it's 80mm in size, the same as the Z18XE TB, versus the 60mm of the GSi TB. Again, I've got these bits all floating around from the GSi swap too.

[NoX-Troniq]

I'd rather just take pretty much the whole front end out of the an Astra and use that (if it fits) and I'd much prefer having the solid throttle cable instead of the fly-by one.
I didn't kow you could use the GSi ECU with the Astra engines? wouldn't it be better to use the Astra ECU?
Remember that when I get all the parts I need and such, I'll only have 5 days to do it. So the easier the better I guess.

[adam_92]

You cant just use the astra subframe as the corsa is smaller and doesn't have a subframe. It would be better to use the gsi ecu as it is setup to work with the corsa b components (speedo etc) the throttle body that you use will either be a gsi one or a viva one which are both cable throttles not drive by wire (electronic)

[Wraith]

Threads like this come up all the time and in the end you can pretty much do what you want depending mainly on your budget, skies the limit all dependant on how much you want to spend in terms of money, time and effort.

However if this is going to be a daily driver I'd advise against it unless your prepared to also do all the necessary things that need to be done to get it all legal, a lot of people never even think about that part of it until it's too late !

If your swapping out the engine to another type of engine, you need to get it all engineer certified and RTA approved, otherwise you will never get it insured (as well as other legal issues if you get pulled over for a random RW inspection) and in the worst case scenario of an accident your on your own !

The additional mods you need to do and the $$$ that come with it are IMHO not worth it unless it's something you really want and go all the way with it, these days it's getting harder and harder to get that sort of thing done, most people who do it are doing it for an offroad or drag or club car, not a daily driver...

You can get away with doing mods to your existing set up and getting it insured a lot easier than a total different engine and other parts transplant - not trying to put you off just a heads up and something to think about if you havn't already done so.

Good luck with it whichever way you go...

[NoX-Troniq]

In that case, if you think about it, if I end up putting a 1.6 in it, it would essentially be a GSi wouldn't it?
Not sure about car frames and stuff but isn't the car the same with the exception of the sporty parts. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to actually get it legally registered if if just got sports model parts and engine because they seem like virtually the same car.

So optionally a GSi engine would be best, and considering you have one ready to go adam_92 that's close by, it seems like it would be easiest.

Yes, it really is something I want to do, I'ts honestly way to sluggish for my liking. Buy a whole new GSi seems ok too, but the problem with that is I can't take trust anything that's in it, unlike adam's which he said it works, I'd like to clean up the one adam has as much as possible before putting it in too, so new gaskets and such...

What say you, guys?

[adam_92]

Mine isnt a gsi engine. Yes its a 1.6 but its a z16se not a c16/x16 like the gsi engines.

[Wraith]

In that case, if you think about it, if I end up putting a 1.6 in it, it would essentially be a GSi wouldn't it?
Not sure about car frames and stuff but isn't the car the same with the exception of the sporty parts. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to actually get it legally registered if if just got sports model parts and engine because they seem like virtually the same car.

So optionally a GSi engine would be best, and considering you have one ready to go adam_92 that's close by, it seems like it would be easiest.

Yes, it really is something I want to do, I'ts honestly way to sluggish for my liking. Buy a whole new GSi seems ok too, but the problem with that is I can't take trust anything that's in it, unlike adam's which he said it works, I'd like to clean up the one adam has as much as possible before putting it in too, so new gaskets and such...

What say you, guys?

Once you do an engine transplant even if it's the same engine type as originally fitted to the car you need to submit the different engine number to the RTA for approval and for all associated documentation record changes, otherwise you'll never be able to get a RWC for it if your ever thinking of selling the car and as mentioned if your involved in an accident the car will be deemed illegal...

If you transplant a different engine that belongs to the cars model range but was not the specific type fitted to that particular model variant that's where it starts to get tricky and usually will require a pit visit to the RTA for approval, if it's done right however this may be the option for you since as you say you have an engine in wait...

And as mentioned earlier if you get a different engine altogehter from another car model installed it'll have to be engineer approved and then submitted to the RTA pit for inspection and approval...

It's all possible if you really wanting to go that way :)

[chris_r]

In regards to the requirements as per DPTI SA, have a read here: http://sa.gov.au/subject/Transport%2C+travel+and+motoring/Motoring/Vehicles+and+registration/Vehicle+standards+and+modifications/Engine+and+exhaust+modifications


All vehicles manufactured on or after 1 January 1986 must comply with ADR 37, including:

This category of vehicle may only be fitted with an ADR 37 or later -complying engine - ie an engine designed to operate only on unleaded fuel), which incorporates all associated emission control components.
Fitting an engine other than an original or optional engine requires approval from the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure.
No alterations to the engine's camshaft, inlet manifold, carburettor/fuel injectors, engine control unit or the catalytic converter are permitted.
Airflow meters must not be disconnected.
Modified or aftermarket plenum chambers or throttle bodies are not permitted.
Extra or larger fuel injectors or variable fuel pressure regulators are not permitted.
If the vehicle was originally fitted with a catalytic converter by the manufacturer, the vehicle must continue to operate with one.

Taking notice of the sections highlighted in bold, this would mean to fit a Z18XE and get it past Vehicle Standards, I assume we'd need to use a Z18XE ECU and loom. Aftermarket fuel pressure regulators aren't allowed either, which means the fact the Z18XE has a single return line, we'd need to use an Astra Z18XE fuel pump (which I believe is a drop in job), as it has the FPR built into it. This also means using the drive by wire throttle, which isn't as hard as what people say. To be completely sure of the requirements, there's a form here: http://sa.gov.au/upload/franchise/Transport,%20travel%20and%20motoring/Motoring/Vehicle%20Standards%20and%20Modifications/MR620%20-%20APPLICATION%20TO%20MODIFY%20Motor%20Vehicle%202 013.pdf
Fill this out and lodge it and they will give you the statement of requirements for the conversion, which tells you what they want done in order to make it roadworthy with the new engine.

Otherwise, just fit the Z18 with all the GSi electrics and just drive it around. As long as it looks stock, it's unlikely that the cops are going to look at it close enough to figure out what engine it is. I did this and I know someone else who does the same. Sure, there's a risk, but that's up to you if you want to take it, but as Wraith said, you need to be aware of any possible complications and repercussions should something go wrong.

However, if you still want to persist down the fully legal route, we would need to find a loom and ECU from a UK-spec Vectra B with a Z18XE. This is because the Vectra B wiring is closer to that of the Corsa B (meaning we still use the Corsa B dash) and the accelerator pedal position sensor is easier to sort out for the swap. Astra loom and APP gets a bit trickier. Z18XE Vectra B loom is like 9 wires to solder to the ECU plug, plus another 6 for the APP. Other thing to consider with this is that the coolant bottle needs to be relocated, in which case we can make one fit from an Astra or Vectra, but that's only a minor issue.

As for going Adam's 1.6, the Z16SE is pretty much the Euro 4 compliant version of the C16SE 1.6 8v SOHC engine with a drive by wire throttle. GSi engines are 16v twin cams.

[NoX-Troniq]

Personally after all this, I reckon possibly a C16 might be the way to go, I'd like the twin cam engine and because it's just an upgrade to the sports version of my car.
Plus I'd like corsaford's intake shoved onto it too.

Anyone know of a C16 floating around anywhere? :P

[adam_92]

c000kie might still have one??

[chris_r]

Personally after all this, I reckon possibly a C16 might be the way to go, I'd like the twin cam engine and because it's just an upgrade to the sports version of my car.
Plus I'd like corsaford's intake shoved onto it too.

Anyone know of a C16 floating around anywhere? :P

Good luck. Most C16/X16s end up in the wrecking yard as results of poor servicing and broken timing belts, rather than as a result of piss poor driving efforts. For what you'd need to do here, it'd be easier (and probably cheaper) to just buy a GSi to get a C16XE. As for the powerbox intake, no doubt they are a good mod for the 1.6, but it's at a loss of some bottom end torque to get the most out of the top end. I had one on my old GSi and it had a big flat spot around 2-2.5k. I found when I swapped to the Z18XE, I had plenty of torque down low and it was even better in through the rev range through to the top. The factory design of the intake on the 1.8 isn't as bad as what some people think for NA applications.

Whether you drop a C16 or Z18 in your current car, you may need to go through the same processes to get it all through Regency to make it legal (Remember, GSi has differences in regards to suspension and braking systems, which even though you have GSi suspension fitted, brakes will probably need upgrading and they'd probably want an engineer's certificate for that too). And if you saw the pics of my Z18XE GSi, you'd almost be mistaken for thinking the engine came with the car. All I did for the intake was just make a cold air feed to the airbox (which is from a GSi too, keeping it all factory).

If you think you can get away with driving it around with a 1.6 in your current car and not putting it through Regency, there's no reason you can't do the same with a 1.8, running off GSi hardware. Just don't drive like a d1ck, don't be a smart arse to the cops and for the most part, they'll leave you alone. In this state, they'll really only go over your car if you give them reason to. As for insurance, whichever way you go, you will probably have the same problems anyway. And from what I've experienced, the 1.8 is the better engine all round, the 1.6 is good, but just doesn't match the 1.8 in overall driveability.

I may be sounding like that I know everything there is to know about the Corsa B and swapping engines, but the truth is before I did mine, I researched this for hours on end and at the time I was tossing up whether to rebuild my C16 and maybe turbo it or go for an engine swap. I was even considering selling it at the time. Adam, and another user on this forum had originally put me on to the Z18XE swap and I figured for what the cost of the swap was and the gains to be had, were going to be better bang for buck than pretty much anything else you could put in it. The fact the Z18 is a Family 1 engine too, made it a no-brainer as the C20XE swap wasn't even really considered for the extra weight it would bring. Yes, I did mine to a GSi, meaning I had everything there to do it, but from my experience working with other Corsa Bs, it probably sounds harder to swap stuff around to make it all work than it really is.

[c000kie]

i have a c16xe in pices that needs a rebuild or i have a gsi barina ith a z18xe in it for sale

[NoX-Troniq]

i have a c16xe in pices that needs a rebuild or i have a gsi barina ith a z18xe in it for sale

Are you interstate, cookie?

*EDIT: Sh1t, wrong tab. sorry guys!*

[adam_92]

Cookie is matthew cooke, with the black z18 gsi its for sale for under 1k

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[chris_r]

Cookie is matthew cooke, with the black z18 gsi its for sale for under 1k

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

I thought he'd have sold that by now.

[adam_92]

Not too sure mate. I know he hasnt used it for over a year butnit still starts and runs

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[c000kie]

Still got it im in sa chasing 800 for it
sick of looking at it