Traditional auto boxes

[Vectracious]

Interesting article in the new wheels.

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[Wraith]

That is an interesting one it used to be that autos had too few gears once upon a time now they've got more than manuals, don't think manuals will ever go to more than 6 ratios...

I've had alot of auto vehicles with everything from 2 to 7 gears and am of the opinion that 5 is adeqaute for most auto vehicle types, this combination worked well in my previous Mazda 3 SP25.

High po types with 6 speed dual clutch autos is certainly adequate IMO. good to see OEM trans warranties are on the improve...

Interesting with my MB 7 speed auto where by it takes off in 'normal' driving mode from 2nd gear not 1st for the sake of better efficiency...maybe CVT's will take over LOL :p

[nigelh]

I rebuild transmissions for a living and I wouldn't buy anything with more than 5 gears in auto and only a proper manual gearbox because anything else does not last and are very expensive to repair. But everyone else should buy cars with as many gears as possible to keep me in work :)

[Wraith]

I rebuild transmissions for a living and I wouldn't buy anything with more than 5 gears in auto and only a proper manual gearbox because anything else does not last and are very expensive to repair. But everyone else should buy cars with as many gears as possible to keep me in work :)

Hey my cuz does the same thing for a living, ie. greese monkey but specialises in auto and power steering work :)

Agree as I also mentioned above 5 is definitely adequate for most if not all auto vehicles...

In the case of my aforementioned MB the 2 extra ratios to 7sp does give a broader spread for improved acceleration low down and more efficient top end when cruising at speed, but I don't think they need to go to 8 or 9 or more gears in that case they may as well just adopt improved tech CVT's...

[glider]

That is an interesting one it used to be that autos had too few gears once upon a time now they've got more than manuals, don't think manuals will ever go to more than 6 ratios...

I've had alot of auto vehicles with everything from 2 to 7 gears and am of the opinion that 5 is adeqaute for most auto vehicle types, this combination worked well in my previous Mazda 3 SP25.

High po types with 6 speed dual clutch autos is certainly adequate IMO. good to see OEM trans warranties are on the improve...

Interesting with my MB 7 speed auto where by it takes off in 'normal' driving mode from 2nd gear not 1st for the sake of better efficiency...maybe CVT's will take over LOL :p

1 st ratio would be too low. In heavy vehicles you only use 1st if loaded and on a hill, otherwise its 2nd or even 3rd on some vehicles.

[Vectracious]

Interesting with my MB 7 speed auto where by it takes off in 'normal' driving mode from 2nd gear not 1st for the sake of better efficiency...maybe CVT's will take over LOL :p

Merc autos have been doing this for a long time.

Personally I prefer 6 speeds - the Volvo is 5 speed and I find it could benefit from a lower 1st to improve acceleration.

[Wraith]

1 st ratio would be too low. In heavy vehicles you only use 1st if loaded and on a hill, otherwise its 2nd or even 3rd on some vehicles.

I suppose it all depends on the gear ratios and final drive ratios, in the case of the MB 1st is not too low it just makes the vehicle accelerate much quicker without really running out of legs straight away as is the case for some vehicle types, I believe it's also done that way (ie. normal take off in 2nd rather than 1st) to make take off in poor traction conditions safer as especially with the MB oilers they are highly torque laiden and have access to 100% of it almost immediately off idle, the traction control nannys in mine struggle to contain wheel spin if I gun it in sport mode which reverts to 1st gear take off from standstill even despite being a heavy vehicle with sport suspension, RWD and LSD.


Merc autos have been doing this for a long time.

Personally I prefer 6 speeds - the Volvo is 5 speed and I find it could benefit from a lower 1st to improve acceleration.

It's my first MB so am learning and getting my head around all the finer technical aspects :)

In the case of your Volvo it could be a case of ratios, certainly in a Mazda 5spd auto they jump and fly from standstill and cruise with smooth revs on the top end IMO Mazda have got it all sorted well without having to go to more than 5 cogs...

I think alot of this has to do with "keeping up" with each other and marketing/sales tools, if one manufacturer gives more the others feel like they have to do the same to be able to offer the same to the general public who will mostly think more is better...

[JohnBu]

Manufacturers are only doing more than 6 speed for fuel economy target imposed by Governments, not for technical advancement.

Lower taxes on a cars, all things being equal, will make the car more popular than a car which is imposed higher taxes and registration.

[Vectracious]

I think alot of this has to do with "keeping up" with each other and marketing/sales tools, if one manufacturer gives more the others feel like they have to do the same to be able to offer the same to the general public who will mostly think more is better...

I certainly believe that the whole DSG thing is just everyone thinking they have to keep up with VW - yes when you're flying along a DSG is awesome with quick changes etc etc, but at low speed - they are nowhere near as smooth as your conventional Auto.

Manufacturers can make a conventional auto behave like a DSG/Robotic manual anyway - Aston Martin did it a few years ago in their DB7 (I think) - even dad's VE Calais will blip the throttle on manual downchanges. Mazda in their Skyactive autos get the torque converter locked up basically straight away so they feel like a DSG in that the revs don't flare during acceleration.

[Wraith]

I certainly believe that the whole DSG thing is just everyone thinking they have to keep up with VW - yes when you're flying along a DSG is awesome with quick changes etc etc, but at low speed - they are nowhere near as smooth as your conventional Auto.

Manufacturers can make a conventional auto behave like a DSG/Robotic manual anyway - Aston Martin did it a few years ago in their DB7 (I think) - even dad's VE Calais will blip the throttle on manual downchanges. Mazda in their Skyactive autos get the torque converter locked up basically straight away so they feel like a DSG in that the revs don't flare during acceleration.

Correct and totally agree, there are alot of conventional autos to add to that list that can behave like a dual clutch type trans without all the cons associated with them, a standout is the 7spd auto used in the current Nissan 370Z I've driven one and it's exceptional, the 6spd steptronic autos used in BMW's over the last 5 or 6 years are also excellent in this regard, MB has them too but only for the hardcore AMG's they are going to go down the dual clutch path from now on though with all their new models...

It will be interesting to see where the autos go in future in terms of type/s used, one things for sure is that they will become more and more prolific and standard whilst manuals will become more and more a thing of the past and totally deleted from model line ups all together...

[JohnBu]

I can't see manuals dying altogether.

They are too popular in Europe.

They will always have cars with manual. The day Porsche doesn't offer a manual will be the day my interest in them will die. Same reason a GTR, F458, etc. doesn't interest me no matter how fast it is.

Given the option, I wouldn't get an auto or DSG for myself. I would feel soft and dirty.

[Vectracious]

When I got the R36 I thought that I would have the best of both worlds. I'd been driving manual cars the previous 10 years and thought I would try an auto again.

Now having had 2 auto cars plus extensively driving dad's Calais, I will definitely go manual again. Stav's CR-V is a six speed and I love driving it just because it's a manual. The handling, noise and lack of performance is irrelevant, if has a clutch and a gear lever which does whatever you tell it to do.

[Wraith]

Just keep or have one or more of each and you can't go wrong, that's what I do :D

[chris_r]

As a courier driver, I must say that I do love the power my iLoad diesel has and the flexibility of changing gears manually (I just don't enjoy the reliability issues and Hyundai's customer service), but after recently having the clutch replaced, I spent a week driving a 2012 Merc 313CDI Sprinter with the six-speed Sprintshift auto box. I must say it was an awesome drive and it's unbelievable how much easier it made doing my job. The Merc was twice the size as the iLoad, yet it was just as economical, if not more so than the Hyundai. Last time I drove an automatic diesel, was a Ford Transit VH and the five speed auto in that was just crap. It was so bad that you had to release your foot off the accelerator to just let the damn thing change up a gear.

Next time I buy a van (provided I'm in the same line of work at that point), I will be getting an auto, but it won't be another Hyundai. Still, I'd have a manual for non-work related driving any day.

[Wraith]

As a courier driver, I must say that I do love the power my iLoad diesel has and the flexibility of changing gears manually (I just don't enjoy the reliability issues and Hyundai's customer service), but after recently having the clutch replaced, I spent a week driving a 2012 Merc 313CDI Sprinter with the six-speed Sprintshift auto box. I must say it was an awesome drive and it's unbelievable how much easier it made doing my job. The Merc was twice the size as the iLoad, yet it was just as economical, if not more so than the Hyundai. Last time I drove an automatic diesel, was a Ford Transit VH and the five speed auto in that was just crap. It was so bad that you had to release your foot off the accelerator to just let the damn thing change up a gear.

Next time I buy a van (provided I'm in the same line of work at that point), I will be getting an auto, but it won't be another Hyundai. Still, I'd have a manual for non-work related driving any day.


My brother in law is in a similar line of work and has a MB Vito CDI and says they're the best type of transport van you can buy :)

I can certainly see where your coming from and it is the case if your a manual only person that if you get a vehicle with a decent or exceptional auto transmission it can make you convert...

On the topic of diesel efficiency I too can certainly vouch for the MB's they are exceptional if not in a class of their own, even after over 9 months and over 17,000 travelled KM's in mine I am still amazed at the range I get all things considered such power/torque output, weight of the vehicle, RWD etc. etc. and it's increasing as the mileage builds up and the engine settles in I'm averaging well over 900km on 60ltrs of diesel and that's when I'm mostly driving it hard and I never use the stop/start feature either otherwise it would be more...can't see myself ever going back to a petrol for a regular usage vehicle after experiencing a diesel this good...

Still havn't gone for a long cross Country trip in it yet but I'm looking forward to getting around or over 1200km or so out the tank which is in the 4's for ltrs/100km an amazing figure considering the specs of the vehicle...

I'm also keen on seeing how good the new Mazda 'skyactiv' diesels do in this regard, they've combined their new engines with new autos to suit, when more of their passenger range become available I'll check them out and see how good or not their new tech autos are as well :)

[Vectracious]

lets keep the discussion on the merits of auto vs manual vs automated manual gearboxes - not how Merc's are the best in the world - everyone knows you love them Ang, you don't need to keep repeating it. :)

[JohnBu]

I think manuals are like automatic watches.

You can't deny quartz watches keep the time better like how automatic transmissions are/will be faster.

But there is no involvement in owning a quartz watch or driving an automatic car.

The day I buy an automatic car by choice is the day I buy a Camry.


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[Vectracious]

But there is no involvement in owning a quartz watch or driving an automatic car.


I have a manual watch but an automatic car so I have kind of redeemed myself ;)

I like your analogy. The only problem is that new manual cars will be harder and harder to find. Everyone is dropping manuals or severely limiting the models they are available in.

[JohnBu]

Manuals in family/luxury cars are getting rarer but manuals will always be available in other cars such as sports car.

There will always be percentage of drivers who will only drive a manual (especially in Europe).

They may end up being a niche market, but a small manufacturer will fill that space, think of small convertibles. Mazda saw a gap in the market and the worlds best selling sports car was created.

Can you imagine an MX5 without a manual? about 2/3rds are manuals.

Don't also forget manuals are simpler and cheaper so it's not hard for a manufacturer to offer it.

Plus I need a manual car to charge my automatic watch :P


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[Wraith]

lets keep the discussion on the merits of auto vs manual vs automated manual gearboxes - not how Merc's are the best in the world - everyone knows you love them Ang, you don't need to keep repeating it. :)


Manuals in family/luxury cars are getting rarer but manuals will always be available in other cars such as sports car.

There will always be percentage of drivers who will only drive a manual (especially in Europe).

They may end up being a niche market, but a small manufacturer will fill that space, think of small convertibles. Mazda saw a gap in the market and the worlds best selling sports car was created.

Can you imagine an MX5 without a manual? about 2/3rds are manuals.

Don't also forget manuals are simpler and cheaper so it's not hard for a manufacturer to offer it.

Plus I need a manual car to charge my automatic watch :P


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Careful what you wish for you may end up owning that Camry LOL :p