Reviews and Comments of older Opels in Australian web sites

[J]

Just want to know how you all actually deal with generalised reviews and comments about the earlier Opels (that are badged as Holdens) in Australia...

Now, I understand that every manufacturer can make a dud, or even duds, sometimes (and my utmost empathies for my dear friends out there who owns one and have been there!). But to basically say that ALL European cars are crap, and should be avoided...

I, for one, can positively see red with some of the off-handed remarks :incazzato:

To give you some examples:
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/deal-breakers-20121102-28nml.html
The comment by "michael hart" on Nov 4 at 11:07a.m. basically says (and I quote):
"Avoid ASTRA'S, VECTRA'S AND BARINA'S from 1994 onwards SB model."

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/buyers-guide/used_car_review_holden_astra_ts_2001_2004
The comment by "Wayne H." on April 26 at 8:04p.m. (and I quote):
"...provided you avoid the one that has traction control (it has 5 stud wheels) you will avoid many problems. Check its history and make sure the exhaust has been replaced as they backup and affect performance during the first 50k. Also make sure if the ignition has been replaced (again common under warranty) that the key fits everything. Then pay no more than $6k for a vehicle 12 years old with 180k on it."

There are also other comments about timing belts and stuff, but I digress...

The point is: besides the inherent design faults (which AFAIK are not as numerous or severe as most other European cars with fancier gadgets and more complex technologies), most of the other issues that people experience with the earlier-Opels relate to a general cluelessness about their cars (or their mechanics for that matter!), abusive use, and/or underservicing their vehicles.

For example (and based on my limited knowledge and observations of some of the non-OpelAus clueless owners so far, so please, do gently correct me if I am wrong!):
A) not reading the handbook and assuming the timing belt change is at 100,000km, and not knowing to do the entire timing belt kit and change the water pump as well, and/or dodgy mechanic just taking the easy way out = snapped belt and engine damage;
B) leaving the disc pad change on ABS-equipped vehicles too late = destroying the sensors and causing more problems later (at least, according to a mechanic);
C) just bend over backwards when being quoted $$$$ for replacing the alternator, when a (more) honest mechanic would tell you that it may simply be the far cheaper voltage regulator and/or the sticky aux/belt tensioner;
D) not knowing to get most (servicing) parts MUCH cheaper from, say, the UK!

I could go on. But it seems that people are happy to skimp on proper preventative maintenance (perhaps because they can't afford it, or think they can't because they don't know about e.g. Autovaux), and then when the corresponding $$$$ problems and repair bills eventually arrive, they then turn around and blame the cars, repair them on the cheap (usually with the more ingrained problems unresolved), and then sell them to some unsuspecting owners who, in turn, get them "serviced" by some dodgy mechanics who may have hardly come across an example that is immaculate...and voila! The myth that ALL European cars are rubbish, and should be avoided, continues to propagate and spread!

And then you see/read, for example, VW owners who try their best to respond to this general misinformation, only to be attacked again by the often ill-informed majority...does this mean we can never defend our cars?

Case in point: I bought my Astra G SRi-T from a member here (from memory) more than 5 years ago with 104,000km on the clock. More than 63,000 sensible kays later, and it is still on the same clutch (and still seem to have lost none of its clamping force), with the only problems (from memory) being the voltage regulator and aux belt tensioner, a small plastic part under the bonnet, a passenger seat that no longer folds (I drop friends home from church at least once a week), the dodgy windscreen sprayers, yellowed/foggy headlights, and a gear linkage pin. Not sure about you, but I think that is a pretty good run!

I will keep the car and run it into the ground if I can help it. But changing circumstances mean I will have to sell in the near future. Does this mean that more than 5 years of perfect preventative service histories, all the receipts, running it virtually exclusively on 98 octane etc. mean nothing (because people are simply told to avoid buying our cars)? And I am practically just going to be giving my car away?

Also, really appreciate if someone can teach me: how to actually respond to some of these reviews and/or comments in an objective and irrefutable manner?

Please feel free to reply to this thread with more misinformation vs the truth, if not respond to some of the misinformation out there, because it is crazy for us not to do that, and to have see our resale values further destroyed unreasonably (for those of us who have to sell our cars in future).

Thank you all!

[poita]

Pretty much just ignore them mate.

They have an opinion that is set in stone and can't be changed.

[Vectracious]

Pretty much just ignore them mate.

They have an opinion that is set in stone and can't be changed.

This

Don't waste your time with uninformed idiots. Its the internet - you'd spend the rest of your life arguing with them. You're happy with what you have, its all that matters. :-)

[gowsa]

Wow someone has got a bee in there bonnet :rofl1:.But seriously you look up any car for a review and there is always something that someone has a complaint about sure our cars have there issues with water pumps seizing and taking out the belt hence everything else.but as you said if people did there maintenance then these things would be avoided.MAINTENANCE IS THE KEY

Nice right up and links mate:thumbs:

[Nurb608]

Im with you mate 100%. As you stated, basically clueless and mechanics who rip people off

[faneca]

Completely agree with what's said, all my friends have been saying they have been told how bad the cars are and all but they have never owned or driven. Not to mention their advice is from people who have never owned or driven one.
So its just stereotyping and it happens with every car I know. My dads 06 hilux had its alternator die yesterday "unbreakable" ;)

At the end of the day if you look after the car the way its supposed to be then you won't have any issues.. but there is no telling them that.

[hazrd]

MAINTENANCE IS THE KEY:

This, and this only

[guy 27]

Every car has issues. It's just when it costs people too much as they get ripped off they down the car.

Seems here in aus though the older gen opels really cop a lot of shit.

[gowsa]

I agree totally maybe if holden didn't try and rip you a new one the cars might not get such a bad wrap

[hazrd]

Every car has issues. It's just when it costs people too much as they get ripped off they down the car.

Seems here in aus though the older gen opels really cop a lot of shit.

Which is bullshit

both my calibras, and my Astra didnt/don't skip a beat

[dutchy]

Every car has issues..........

this. but what you read are only the bad points people (personally) have or an issue they have had with a certain car. You never read about positive points or experiences in these kind of reviews. No-one ever mentions the good thing that you can actually get half priced parts from overseas. A person that crazy about Lada cars, will not write bad reviews about that car.....
I never had any mechanical issues with an Alfa I had years ago but most people do have issues. Take care of your car and it'll take care of your wallet.
I won't put much though into peoples personal opinion.

[J]

Thank you everyone for your input and support so far.

I just find it difficult not to stay mad at the fact that so many people - clueless owners, non-owners, dodgy mechanics out for a quick buck because they earn hardly anything preventatively servicing cars and keeping them reliable, and even some wreckers - are effectively killing the resale of our cars by bad-mouthing them in situations when it is mainly (if not entirely) their own fault, because (besides the clueless owners) doing so doesn't affect them, as they do not own the cars. We who own the cars are the ones who have to bear the cost!

It is like they are ripping money out of us (whether it be servicing and/or resale value), and (almost) nothing is stopping them from doing it...and that feels (if not is) absolutely criminal!

And it is not easy trying to find another way to come to terms with this, I tell you!

Still not sure how to best respond to that "michael hart" guy's comments in the first article...

[OldF@rt]

As others have said, the key is conscientious maintenance, which in turn requires not so much money as a level of engagement with the car. From what I understand the Opels aren't designed to be driven into the ground with no maintenance - try that and they *will* bite you. I blame a lot of the attitude on the "Dog and Lemon" guide which from what I can make out regards the sole criterion of a good car as one that continues to run without serious problems with minimal maintenance. I've got to laugh at his assertion about the problems with German cars being a market protected from Japanese competition - try buying an imported car in Japan and Korea!!!

[Wraith]

Bad reputations on cars are all too easily created, that's the simple truth...

It only takes a small number to suffer a common fault or have a fault recall to earn a black mark up against its name or a bad rep. regardless having owned one or not or how bad the problem/s actually was, the bad word just gets around and alot of people remember bad things all too easily...

If you look at some notable past examples like the VL 3.0ltr IL6 Nissan engined Commodore which suffered common (around 1 in 10) engine head failures, that gave it instant almost total lemon status...

Another was the 80's rebirthed Ford Capri which had numerous common faults, result it's branded a lemon...

The Calibra went down a similar track, in that vehicles case it was the AWD turbo variant that sealed its lemon status, but that bad rep quickly spread to the entire family despite the N/A IL4 and V6 variants being o/a reliable...

In any case as said by others proper care/maintanance is very important, there's nothing much anyone can do about bad luck though whether it be that a certain vehicle does have inherent problems or good ones suffer the odd component failure etc.

If your happy with what car you have and all for your own reasons, then don't worry too much about generalised or subjective reviews, remember the saying - everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it you don't have to accept it though :)

[OldF@rt]

If you look at some notable past examples like the VL 3.0ltr IL6 Nissan engined Commodore which suffered common (around 1 in 10) engine head failures, that gave it instant almost total lemon status...



The problem with the VL vs the Skyline was that the VL had a lower bonnet, which meant the radiator was lower and indeed the top of the engine was almost level of it. The result was that the cooling system needed to be maintained carefully and in particular bled properly (there's two bleed screws on the head) after a coolant change if the level got too low.

Supposedly GMH for some unknown reason failed to include the bleeding in the dealers' maintenance manuals. Result was that VLs ran fine until the cooling system had to be flushed and refilled, the dealers didn't bleed the system because they hadn't been told, the head thus had air pockets and overheated and hey presto one warped cylinder head.

Everyone knows about this now and the VL has a cult following - there's people getting over 800hp out of street-registered VL turbos!

Similar story with the Triumph Stag - it had horrendous quality and cooling problems when new, but these have now been sorted out and it's a better car than ever.

[dizzydumb]

I've copped a fair bit when owning my Astra TS back then, mainly from the Jap car owners. Even so, they reckon other german brands such as BMW, VW and Audi are much better than a 'crappy astra'. Thing is, I've owned it for 6 years and done 80,000kms on it, and it has never coughed one sound on me before. It all comes down to what people would like to think. In my eyes: Astra = Golf = Focus. Period.

In all seriousness, I was very very close to buying a Hyundai Veloster Turbo after losing my VXR. Then, I get people saying Hyundais have poor reliability etc etc. I'd have been very very happy with the Veloster had I bought it.

Bunch of narrow-minded pricks who have probably never driven one before, and yet they just wrote it off simply because it's a hyundai or opel.
Therefore it all comes down to whether or not you would enjoy it for yourself regardless of what other clowns might say. You'll be surprised to find a bunch of people claiming that their old minis or reliant robins are waaaaaay more reliable than a BMW. Never ending story really.

That said, if I'm ever gonna have to fork out money to buy my missus a 'reliable and economical car' in the future, my choice would still be a Hyundai, Toyota or Honda.

[nigelh]

Sometimes when I would take the calibra to work some customers would bag it saying how bad they are ect my reply was always I'm going to be driving home tonight while your car is stil on our hoist. The look on there face is priceless.

[Wraith]

The problem with the VL vs the Skyline was that the VL had a lower bonnet, which meant the radiator was lower and indeed the top of the engine was almost level of it. The result was that the cooling system needed to be maintained carefully and in particular bled properly (there's two bleed screws on the head) after a coolant change if the level got too low.

Supposedly GMH for some unknown reason failed to include the bleeding in the dealers' maintenance manuals. Result was that VLs ran fine until the cooling system had to be flushed and refilled, the dealers didn't bleed the system because they hadn't been told, the head thus had air pockets and overheated and hey presto one warped cylinder head.

Everyone knows about this now and the VL has a cult following - there's people getting over 800hp out of street-registered VL turbos!

Similar story with the Triumph Stag - it had horrendous quality and cooling problems when new, but these have now been sorted out and it's a better car than ever.

Interesting on the real prob of the Nissan 3.0ltr IL6 in the VL's everybody certainly does know you can get silly power from the turbo version of that engine it's typical of Nissan IL6 turbo engines, but AFAIK the head issues were common amongst the N/A engine, not so much with the turbo'd engine ??

There are the real lemons out there unfortunately ie. those vehicles that seemingly the majority of them built had problems that Stag you mentioned above was in fact a real lemon just like the rebirthed Capri, had a friend with a Stag in the early 90's and it was constantly breaking down, I didn't realise it can be made good people certainly keep right away from those only enthusiasts would bother :)

[Wraith]

Sometimes when I would take the calibra to work some customers would bag it saying how bad they are ect my reply was always I'm going to be driving home tonight while your car is stil on our hoist. The look on there face is priceless.

LOL, I copped that for 9 years of ownership on my old V6 Cali, but it never skipped a beat in all that time...

Ran it from 36,800km to 127,000km over those years with 2 major services done and not a single problem besides normal wear and tear maintanance inbetween, though still young in terms of travelled distance I must admit I treated her like gold, so I suppose the TLC and maintanance did its thing :)

[Kilbourn]

Reviews and Comments of older Opels in Australian web sites

To the OP I speak from the experience of working over 15 years full time on the Internet!

The bottom line is haters are haters – that is where they are at!

Ignore them you have great car, that has given you years of value for money motoring…

Given those upside credentials the car has a market value maybe even slightly higher than typical prices for same year and model car!

By the way OP great post – excellent contribution to the forum…

Thanks!

[chris_r]

In all seriousness, I was very very close to buying a Hyundai Veloster Turbo after losing my VXR. Then, I get people saying Hyundais have poor reliability etc etc. I'd have been very very happy with the Veloster had I bought it.

Hyundais DO have poor reliability. As a contractor courier with Messenger Post, I am also the owner of a 2010 Hyundai iLoad diesel van. To be brutally honest, it is a very nice vehicle to drive and it goes alright, but at 68000kms I suffered a big end failure and had to have the bottom end rebuilt. Hyundai refused to cover this under warranty, then tried to charge me $13k to fix it. I told them shove it and had it rebuilt for a third of that price elsewhere. Of the five drivers within our company with Hyundai vans, two of us have suffered the same issues. From contacts within other companies like Startrack and Toll, I'm just hearing more of the same kind of horror stories with more and more Hyundai vans going to crap. Problem is, Hyundai specify services done at 7500 or 15000km, depending on how fast you rack up the km's, but according to my engine builder, he said that being a modern diesel engine in a high engine stress environment, the oil should be left no longer than 10000km without the need for a change.

Really, I think it's a shame this is playing out like it is within the courier industry, as personally I'm anything but a fan of Toyota's Hiace and I wish I didn't have a bad word to say about Hyundai (considering other family members have owned X3 Excels and a J3 Lantra wagon without issue), but given the experience I've had with the van, the dealer, and Hyundai Australia, I just can't bring myself to recommend a Hyundai to anyone looking for a new car.

But, I do see what you're saying about the shallowness of those just looking at the badge alone and no further. Especially when those people just go on hearsay alone and say it's crap for the sake of their mate(s) saying it is. I've owned my Corsa GSi for over 3 years now and every time I go to a wrecker and ask for parts for it, all I get is things like it's got a hand grenade engine and it's crap, "I wouldn't bother fixing it", etc. To which my response is, I don't really give a flying rats anus. Yes, it hasn't been completely reliable like the Datsuns I've owned, but it's one car I've enjoyed owning, driving, modifying, fixing & tinkering with and that's all that matters. For me, that feeling is definitely sweeter when I leave the doubters behind at the traffic light grand prix.

The other thing I've noticed with Opel models in particular, if the reviewers and the haters say they're all crap, then why do they retain a far better resale value than the Korean garbage they were replaced with? Astras in particular still fetch good money second hand, as do Corsa C's. To me, that would indicate that there is demand for these cars regardless of all the negativity surrounding them and they're not really as bad as what people say. Again, reliability is generally boiled down to good maintenance regimes and if you know all the pitfalls of the car in question, you shouldn't have a problem. However, that's not to say that you wouldn't get burnt by unscrupulous dealers/private sellers and dodgy tactics.

[teaming]

The Astra I am drving was a brand new car when my sister brought it from the dealer. We used have the Holden dealer to service the car, and whenever they CLAIMED something have to change, we will pay the cash and get everything done, which usually cost us quite a lot.

After 7 years ( yes, took us a very long time ), we started to take it to JaxQuickFit. And they also rip people off but just not as bad as the dealer. They have change my timing belt and never told me I should have my pump change as well. So now I am doing it myself.

So I would say, the bad reputation of Astra partly is because maintenance charge by Holden or third party mechanics are very high. Second, parts are soooooo expensive localy. Last but not least, lack of knowledge of mechanics in general public to question when simple problem arise, that allow others to rip you off.

Astra is a nice car to drive. The engine is smooth. Fuel economy is quite good. However when my repair is done, I have to let it go, I want a manual. I will miss my Astra, as my best companion for the pass 12 years.

[dizzydumb]

....every time I go to a wrecker and ask for parts for it, all I get is things like it's got a hand grenade engine...

Hahaha hand grenade?? Damn that's a bit far fetched for a comment. Yep as a fellow opel driver who's been dissed like that, I completely understand.
You sir, after having a bad experience with your hyundai, have the right to comment on that brand. However those other people whose mouth needs bleaching should not say jack about certain car brands until they've gone through one, not simply because 'their mate who happens to be a mechanic says so'.

[cbrmale]

We had two Opel-sourced Holdens, both mainted by the letter by me (7,500km oil changes, regular inspections of everything, the whole deal). The Barina XC (Corsa C) has been endless trouble. Ignition switch shorted and burnt out the starter motor when it engaged - known issue. Gear linkages collapsed - known issue. Water pump failed - known issue. Auxilliary drive belt tensioner failed - known issue. What is worse is that it cost a fortune to fix those things. The airconditioning receiver / dryer really needs replacing but it would cost A$400 in labour to get it out and get a new one in. How bad is that? It's done 120,000 and it has been rubbish. Not much performance but excellent steering and handling, and a nice car to drive.

My Astra AH had nothing go wrong over 100,000km except for one of the twin horns replaced under warranty. It was a 2.2 auto and the 60,000km service included an automatic transmission service, which I couldn't do myself at home. Cost $750 and most of that was the filter (nearly $500 for a replaceable part!). $485 for front pads and rotors - parts only! When I traded it in I got nothing for it because Astras are known to be trouble and no-one wants one, and they don't have any resale value whatsoever. Fortunately I didn't pay retail for it, so what I lost at one end I saved at the other. Solid performance and excellent steering and handling compromised by a ride that was too harsh (my motorcycle had more impact absorption).

It takes four hours labour to change a low beam headlight globe on the soon to be superceeded Volkswagen Golf...

The Barina and Astra saga taught not to ever buy a German car again, ever. Astra, Volkswagen: unreliable, big repair costs and massive depreciation. I replaced the Astra with a Hyundai Veloster turbo because it drove so well, and also because we have some I30 diesels on the fleet I manage at work (and they don't drive very well). The I30s do 250km a day five days a week in courier work, and we've only had one out of six have anything other than routine maintenance (it needed a part replaced when the check engine light came on). Still under warranty, of course. Those fleet cars have done up to 90,000 hard kilometers and they just keep on going. The ACT Government has many more I30s, petrol and diesel, and they have been the cheapest and most reliable cars to run in the history of the fleet leasing company. Some ACT fleet people have bought I30s as their personal cars.

I was worried when I committed the fleet to Hyundai because I too had heard stories about unreliability and high depeciation. So I did my research, talked to the other fleet managers and it seems that if unreliability and high depreciation was a problem, it was some time ago.

I'm not sure about the diesel engine blowing up above, but the fleet Hyundai cars are required to have the oil changed every 7,500km in stop-start driving, which they do. So that's the oil change interval that is followed and all has been good. I must research the iLoad because the interval / time thing doesn't make sense to me.

So the Barina - heap of rubbish. Astra - worthless after 5 years. Hyundai - reliable, cheap to run but awful to drive until, eventually, they got one right. The Japs are the same, you know. Their everyday cars are fairly awful to drive, and then they come out with the Toyota / Subaru sports twins for a few thousand more than my car. They can do it too, when they set their minds to it. The Veloster turbo has a 5 month waiting list reflecting its quality, while the waiting list for the Toyota and Subaru is about double that.

I suppose the trick is to find those models that make driving a pleasure but don't bleed you dry, and grab one! Or at least put your name down on a list and wait your turn.

Dizzydumb - I think you made a mistake.

[Ascona C GT]

I downgraded :) to mitsi 380 sx ( vxr trim) and im having a blast. Loads of smooth,whisper quiet power,drives like a dream,gets 500k for 60l tank and parts and service cheap as chips. By the way nothing wrong happened or broken so far....trouble free and relaxed motoring! :))

[chris_r]

I'm not sure about the diesel engine blowing up above, but the fleet Hyundai cars are required to have the oil changed every 7,500km in stop-start driving, which they do. So that's the oil change interval that is followed and all has been good. I must research the iLoad because the interval / time thing doesn't make sense to me.

The problem is, my dealer had told me because I do high mileage (anywhere between 1200-1400kms per week, knowing that I am a courier, since it says so on my van) that I should be doing my services at every 15000kms. Do exactly that and the engine craps itself, then I'm told I'm not covered under warranty because I didn't service it properly. I took the issue up with Hyundai Australia, but their investigation went only as far as what the dealer told them. To me, that's shiftier than the dealers themselves. So what course other than legal action does one have for recourse? Not much and at the time I didn't need the added stress of dragging some douchebags through court. In my opinion, if you as a customer of a company such Hyundai raise an issue with the head office in regards to your dealer, there should be at least some proper investigation into the issue, not just fob the customer off because you're too much of a tight arse to cough up repairs under warranty, something which a lot of people don't know about Hyundai. Problem is, I'm not the first to experience this kind of shafting from Hyundai and I'm certain that I will not be the last.


The Veloster turbo has a 5 month waiting list reflecting its quality, while the waiting list for the Toyota and Subaru is about double that.

If that reflects the quality of a car, then explain the 2013 Golf GTi which is rumoured to be on a 18+ month waiting list? Must be an absolute cracker..... Having said that, I'm wondering if Toyota/Subaru are pulling a Nintendo/Apple kind of stunt that chokes supply, driving up demand because they use the waiting list to make people think they're greater than they probably are.

[willhouse]

This article doesn't help shake the 'unreliable Opel' views that a lot of people seem to have.
(From January 13 Top Gear magazine)

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/wilhouse/Image2_zpscb6a8fcc.jpg

[Wraith]

^^^ It's the sad truth about alot of the earlier models though...

Given time and given there's also improvement, things do slowly turn around...