PCs and Wireless Network Cards

[JohnBu]

My nephews wants wireless internet on their desktops.

I'm thinking of either the 54M Wireless-G PCI cards (TP-Link WN350GD) or 150M Wireless-N USB Adaptors (TP-Link WN721N), as they are similar prices ~$15 each.

Speed isn't really an issue as they will most likely only watch YouTube etc.

Any pros or cons of installing/getting the USB or PCI cards to run.

Is one better than the other, or easier to getting up and running?

My only concern with the PCI card is one of the PCs is a HP Slim Format machine, so unsure if a full height PCI card will physically fit without me hacking away the card.

[JohnBu]

oh yeah, Cons of USB cards..

my nephews love to pull USB devices, VGA cables, speaker cables, KB/Mouse cables out and shove them back in, every 2nd day or so just because, because their uncle will fix it when they can't.

[poita]

1. Slap them up the side of the head everytime they do it.

2. USB ones tend to get lost/broken. Use PCi if you can.

3. PCi have aerials, as long as they arent prone to pulling those off you will be fine.

4. What distance from router to each desktop? Are they under a desk or on top of a desk?

[JohnBu]

Thanks Peter-

#2 is a concern...

The desktops are upstairs, router is downstairs.. it's open plan, so maybe 15ms or so... there is no issues with the signal when using the laptop in the same location as the desktops...

for some reason, phychologically, I see PCI performing better than USB due to the antennas.. not sure if it's true..

[dutchy]

I did have pci cards before but that had a terrible connection. Now I use those same tp link usb ones as you mentioned. My house is made of concrete blockes and the router (belkin) is about 40 meters away. No issues there and a great connection. The usb adaptors are not directly plugged into the computer but are connected with an usb extention lead. Had the same kids-issues as you have but it works well and they keep their fingers away from any cables now.

[Bloodnok]

My nephews wants wireless internet on their desktops.

I'm thinking of either the 54M Wireless-G PCI cards (TP-Link WN350GD) or 150M Wireless-N USB Adaptors (TP-Link WN721N), as they are similar prices ~$15 each.

Any particular reason it has to be wireless? I'm a great fan of a bit of real cable for desktop machines. Wireless bandwidth is shared between all devices in the vicinity, even those that are not on "your" network - so you could be in for all kinds of performance problems later on...

[JohnBu]

wireless, $30 for two connections.

wired would cost $500 for the connections, plus the hassles/expense of a getting a new router/switch etc..

[poita]

Thanks Peter-

#2 is a concern...

The desktops are upstairs, router is downstairs.. it's open plan, so maybe 15ms or so... there is no issues with the signal when using the laptop in the same location as the desktops...

for some reason, phychologically, I see PCI performing better than USB due to the antennas.. not sure if it's true..

I only have laptops now and are fine. So I don't see any issues.

The desktop (read dust collector) I have has a 300mb PCiE card in it. TBH it's much more stable than the USB stick I had.

The throughput of a PCi card and PCiE are much higher than a USB dongle.

Like comparing a USB TV Tuner and a PCiE TV tuner. Once again I have both and the PCiE kicks arse every day of the week.

Was wondering about distances, location etc due to speeds.

Personally I would get N as G is on it's last legs and most devices will not support the G stuff very soon

[glider]

most devices will not support the G stuff very soon

would be quite surprised by that, my N draft router broadcasts B, G and N (presumably simultaneously in 2.4ghz band)

[Bloodnok]

wireless, $30 for two connections.

wired would cost $500 for the connections, plus the hassles/expense of a getting a new router/switch etc..

:eek6:

Did you just say five hundred dollars?

Excuse me while I pick myself up of the floor.

Assuming we're talking standard copper cable and no special stuff, someone is expecting to make a SERIOUS profit on that sale.

You can run gigabit ethernet over the cheapest unshielded cat5e twisted pair. Don't let a shop upsell you on Cat6 - that's only needed for ten gigabit, and that's only of relevance for large scale server farm installs at the moment, you won't see ten gigabit capable home PCs or equipment for a while yet.

Don't be scared of long runs or of joining cables either - spec says 100m and up to three different bits of cable, but I know you can get a lot more than that and still have a stable connection. There's plenty of headroom available :).

As to a new router/switch - I haven't met a router yet that doesn't have at least a single ethernet socket, and most "wireless routers" have four.
Even if yours only has one, a gigabit switch can be had for less than $50 (or less than $15 if you can put up with "only" 100mbit). If you do need to buy the switch, also remember you can put the switch by the desktop PCs to reduce the wiring runs.

The PCs will have ethernet on board already, although some vendors ship with it disabled in the BIOS - just have to turn it back on. No need to buy cards or anything.

Even with having to buy a switch and all the cables retail from my local shop, I can see it being done for as little as $50. That's $20 extra over the wireless option offered that I'd happily spend for the reliability of proper networking, which never goes wrong, never needs troubleshooting, never has performance problems, and is never under suspicion. Going for the gigabit option (an extra $30) will give plenty of bandwidth headroom for things like network storage.

[Bloodnok]

would be quite surprised by that, my N draft router broadcasts B, G and N (presumably simultaneously in 2.4ghz band)

It's all about frequencies and how they are used. 802.11b and 802.11g are 2.4GHz, 802.11a is 5GHz, and 802.11n uses both frequencies at once, and will allocate channels on the fly as well. Beware "draft N" too - 802.11n took many years to ratify, and most "draft N" equipment doesn't meet the final N spec. (It may not work with "proper" N equipment - although you may find a firmware update will fix that in some cases).

It's also important to realise how the different speeds work - a device using 802.11b talking to a "B and G" router at 5mbit/sec is occupying a potential ~25mbit to an 802.11g device, even though it isn't communicating that fast.

If they want to fix the narrow and/or overlapping channels associated with current technology, or get out of the 2.4GHz frequency space of microwave ovens (which cause a significant slowdown to wireless internet), then compatibility with B and G will have to go.

The next standard (802.11ac) proposes just that - more channels, and bigger channels, occupying more frequency space in the ~5GHz band. I'd say they'd find a way to make it backwards compatible with 802.11n (and possibly 802.11a - not that anyone really has much 802.11a, but still...), but it won't be backwards compatible with 802.11b or 802.11g.

However, given 'n' was something like 5 years in the pipeline before being a ratified standard, I'd say there's plenty of time before you see 802.11ac devices for real. Two years is probably a reasonable estimate. If they turn up marked "draft", avoid - you could be in for big compatibility problems later...

[JohnBu]

Bloodnok,

I was referring to the cost of getting someone in to run the wires through the walls, from the kitchen downstairs to upstairs.

The cables and switch is cheap, but the installation of 3 separate points isn't. Getting a plumber to come around to install a 20 cent washer will cost you $80.

I like wired too, just in this case, the data is not critical, even movies aren't streamed... it's just for 8 and 6yo to use the internet on their PCs..

[JohnBu]

I had a think about it, I'm going to get one of each.

The PCI card for the slower ATX cased machine and the USB for the HP Small Form Factor machine ..

Hope they both do the job

[Bloodnok]

I was referring to the cost of getting someone in to run the wires through the walls, from the kitchen downstairs to upstairs.

Ah, fair enough. For those unaware, there's a rather odd bit of legislation in play here.

In a dwelling (but IIRC interestingly not a business premises) any cable installed permanently in the building must be done by a licensed electrician. That applies whether it's at mains voltage or not.

So someone who is a qualified Ethernet installer can do large scale installs for businesses, but is not allowed to put down a single piece of ethernet in their own home.

Chances are this was entirely unintentional (probably done before anything other than mains was a common fitment in a house), but given it's turned into a moneyspinner for both electricians and government (who sell said licenses for lots of money per year) they aren't going to fix it.

The way round this is to run cables on the surface. Obviously this can be a problem, depending on how complicated the potential route is. IIRC tucking the wire under the edge of a carpet still counts as surface, but putting it behind a skirting board or coving doesn't, so there are very limited opportunities to hide it out of sight.

Dammit - at times I really miss England. Part P regulations may be a pain in the butt, but they are infinitely less of a pain in the butt than the Australian version...

[JohnBu]

Naah, having ethernet cables run on the surface up the wood staircase, isn't going to look too good... lol..

The odd thing is, alot of electricians don't run ethernet cables very well.

Meh, to be honest, if I really needed cat5, I'll just do it myself through the walls. But that's too much work.. haha

[Bloodnok]

The odd thing is, alot of electricians don't run ethernet cables very well.

Yep. They aren't trained for it, they aren't qualified for it - yet the people who are trained and qualified for it aren't allowed to put it in a house...

[glider]

Ah, fair enough. For those unaware, there's a rather odd bit of legislation in play here.

In a dwelling (but IIRC interestingly not a business premises) any cable installed permanently in the building must be done by a licensed electrician. That applies whether it's at mains voltage or not.

So someone who is a qualified Ethernet installer can do large scale installs for businesses, but is not allowed to put down a single piece of ethernet in their own home.

Chances are this was entirely unintentional (probably done before anything other than mains was a common fitment in a house), but given it's turned into a moneyspinner for both electricians and government (who sell said licenses for lots of money per year) they aren't going to fix it.

The way round this is to run cables on the surface. Obviously this can be a problem, depending on how complicated the potential route is. IIRC tucking the wire under the edge of a carpet still counts as surface, but putting it behind a skirting board or coving doesn't, so there are very limited opportunities to hide it out of sight.

Dammit - at times I really miss England. Part P regulations may be a pain in the butt, but they are infinitely less of a pain in the butt than the Australian version...

So that would extend to tv antenna coax? Ie. fitting a splitter and running a 2nd cable in the roof for a 2nd wall point

[Bloodnok]

So that would extend to tv antenna coax? Ie. fitting a splitter and running a 2nd cable in the roof for a 2nd wall point

Yes, it would.

(Actually, now I think of it, I may have been advised it's a QLD specific rule, and not universal across Australia?)