Focus RS - what's the deal?

[BEK-46P]

It's featured on the Ford AU website and listed on carsales as well as Red Book...

So is it available to buy or what?

[Nurb608]

Yeah, there were around 315 delivered. Most are already sold ;)

[sooty]

Stupidly priced too.

[Nurb608]

Stupidly priced too.

especially if you live in WA lol.

[BEK-46P]

I spotted a white one the other day and have to say that is one hot machine!

[ChrisMaz]

especially if you live in WA lol.

Shouldn't most get shipped through Fremantle (W.A) anyway... :|

[Nurb608]

Shouldn't most get shipped through Fremantle (W.A) anyway... :|

You'd think so, but some of the WA prices i have seen have been 10 - 20k higher than the east coast. Must be cars in general over there?

[Wraith]

It's featured on the Ford AU website and listed on carsales as well as Red Book...

So is it available to buy or what?

What do mean - can you buy one ??? What have you been smoking ??? :lol: of course they're available for purchase...

Seriously unless I'm mistaken or the adds are bogus, there's dozens up for grabs on all the major classifieds, there are something like nearly 100 for sale on carsales alone !!! who says they're nearly all gone ??? it's a niche vehicle for an even smaller interested niche group who'd want to buy one...just wait a little while and they'll be giving them away for alot less, like Ford are doing ATM with the XR5T because after the initial small uptake, no one else wants them and there are still heaps left over of those too...

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/results.aspx?No=0&Qpb=true&Ntt=RS&keywords=RS&N=1216+1246+1247+1252+1282+4294966463+4294966417&Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1 ||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&sid=11805726B140&Dx=mode+matchany&Nne=15&tsrc=allcarhome&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=CarAll&D=RS

and the pricing isn't as high as some people were posting up on other earlier threads, like 80-90k...

There going for between 63-69k drive away as is...

Go for it BEK :)

[kabel]

You'd think so, but some of the WA prices i have seen have been 10 - 20k higher than the east coast. Must be cars in general over there?
Not exactly true,but does happen.
Think it is called the Luxury Car Tax !
I know a few people who have purchased cars new from the East and landed them back here registered as Eastern States cheaper than the best WA dealer price.
Or maybe the WA Ford dealers don`t think the public is that smart.

[Nurb608]

Not exactly true,but does happen.
Think it is called the Luxury Car Tax !
I know a few people who have purchased cars new from the East and landed them back here registered as Eastern States cheaper than the best WA dealer price.
Or maybe the WA Ford dealers don`t think the public is that smart.

Price should be 60k plus on roads. Talking to the guys on the xr5 forum, the WA guys have found 80k price tags for some reason with the dealers not willing to go down on price. On saying that, aparently there is a nsw dealer trying similar

[Wraith]

Price should be 60k plus on roads. Talking to the guys on the xr5 forum, the WA guys have found 80k price tags for some reason with the dealers not willing to go down on price. On saying that, aparently there is a nsw dealer trying similar

It's got to be a case of funny stuff going on - on their part...

If you check the prices on the carsales site, even those from SA they're somewhere in the 60k region drive away...

How can these dealers be asking for more ???

I was at the Sydney motor show recently and spoke to Ford stealers there and the price was exactly the same as stated, ie. around mid 60k drive away, one rep even tried to sell me one on the spot for 65k neat...AFAIK NSW have the highest new car prices, so it dosn't make sense with what seems to happening in SA.

[Nurb608]

Here's one from WA at $80k http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9456643&trecs=52&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=12B3ECE711B6&__Nne=20&__Qpb=true&seot=1&__N=1246 4294966463 4294966417 4294932651 1216&silo=1011

Apparently some of the dealers don't care when they sell it and have been telling people that if they don't buy it at that price, someone else will. Really good sales tatics lol

[Wraith]

Here's one from WA at $80k http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9456643&trecs=52&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=12B3ECE711B6&__Nne=20&__Qpb=true&seot=1&__N=1246 4294966463 4294966417 4294932651 1216&silo=1011

Apparently some of the dealers don't care when they sell it and have been telling people that if they don't buy it at that price, someone else will. Really good sales tatics lol

Looks like they're just shooting themselves in the foot LOL :)

This particular person is just trying to milk it if he can...shouldn't be allowed.

All a buyer has to do is go to another who'll sell it for 60 something k...most others are in the lower price range...

I'd like to see the attitude of this particular stealer down the track when a number of RS's will be sitting there collecting dust, they'll do the same as what's happened with the XR5T and give em away for nicks ;)

[adam_92]

iv seen all 3 colours and the ford dealership where i worked in SA got 4 cars. 2 green and 2 white and they were all 'sold' then 3 weeks later they were still sitting in the showroom and when i asked the manager he said that allthe sales had fallen through

[Wraith]

iv seen all 3 colours and the ford dealership where i worked in SA got 4 cars. 2 green and 2 white and they were all 'sold' then 3 weeks later they were still sitting in the showroom and when i asked the manager he said that allthe sales had fallen through

That is a typical stealer BS story to get interested people to sign up, making them think there's none left !!!

The same thing happens with most new niche car releases...

And that's why also some stealers are trying to get people to pay well over normal RRP...scoundrels they deserve their stealer tilte :D

[Neeko]

we had this thing at work yesterday.
pretty mean

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nicolaim88/FocusRS004.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nicolaim88/FocusRS003.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nicolaim88/FocusRS002.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nicolaim88/FocusRS001.jpg

[guy 27]

that colour looks so much better in photos than it does in real life.

[Nurb608]

that colour looks so much better in photos than it does in real life.

+1

[Red AH SRI T]

According to the new Motor mag the Focus does not quite live up to the hype......

[BEK-46P]

that colour looks so much better in photos than it does in real life.

+2

Looks very washed-out. Plus the rims look rather small in the flesh.

[Wraith]

that colour looks so much better in photos than it does in real life.

+ 3

After being next to it in the flesh at the motor show, this colour actually put me off...

There's one at the Ford dealer in Doncaster if any Melb. peeps want to see Kermit the frog in person :lol:

Personally I like it in frozen white, but what shocked me was the blue - IMHO it looks awesome in that colour...

[gman]

The deal is that the Megane RS250 smashed it in the reviews and the Ford dealers are pricing themselves out of the market.

I was the one that received an $85,000 quote from a NSW dealer....

Thanks but I'll take the Megane instead....

[Red AH SRI T]

The deal is that the Megane RS250 smashed it in the reviews and the Ford dealers are pricing themselves out of the market.

I was the one that received an $85,000 quote from a NSW dealer....

Thanks but I'll take the Megane instead....

Do it. I did and I can't wait to get the Megane!!

[coyotte]

Have recently seen a "blue" one in Sydney Rd, Coburg caught up in traffic (under street lights it looked quite a dark blue : /

[Wraith]

The deal is that the Megane RS250 smashed it in the reviews and the Ford dealers are pricing themselves out of the market.

I was the one that received an $85,000 quote from a NSW dealer....

Thanks but I'll take the Megane instead....

I'm of the same opinion...absolute no brainer on that one...pity no twin clutch option - yet :)

The RS250 Megane also looks 10x better as well and imagine if the Megane had anywhere near the power of the RS Focus, i'd be a total demolition job...

[gman]

imagine if the Megane had anywhere near the power of the RS Focus, i'd be a total demolition job...

That can be fixed with the correct application of sufficient funds. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoss]

At least they're two door, unlike the XR5.

[Wraith]

At least they're two door, unlike the XR5.

Depends on what you want :)

XR5T was also made as a 3 door, but didn't land in Aust.

5 door gives greater versatility (as does a twin clutch option) hence 2 main reasons why the Golf has held such a strong position in the market place for hot hatches...

Given that people could choose to have all those options as well on say the new RS250 then I think the Golf wouldn't do one bit as well as it is...

[Neeko]

taken from www.goautonews.com

FORD’S new high-performance small-car fl agship, the Focus RS, will only make it into
315 garages in Australia and New Zealand, due to limited availability from Europe,
where the next-generation Focus is about to be wheeled out. Hauled by a cracking
224kW/440Nm fi ve-cylinder turbocharged engine from the Volvo stable, the three-door
RS largely overcomes the inhibitions of front-drive hot hatches to break new ground as
a light, nimble and blisteringly fast road-runner.

[TheOperator]

Well in Aus we get ripped off big time, so i was fortunate enough my parents live in UK so got Dad on the search for ages. After deciding not to buy a RS500 a guy he works with pointed us in the direction of below (link below pic shows what is done to it).

Happy to report in just over 12 months time this will be in my garage as a Personal Import with next to no K's on it as we started with a new car and got the full house put in it :yikes:

Less than 50k landed and registered is a bargain :ihih:

http://j-w-racing.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/jwr400_full.jpg

http://j-w-racing.co.uk/product.php/6785/0/the_jwr400_focus_rs_mk2_

[poita]

very very nice

so how many cars can they export a year ;)

[TheOperator]

very very nice

so how many cars can they export a year ;)

:smile5: Only 1 per person, so 2 a year!

Would be a great business if you could do 6 or so a year i think if you picked and chose correctly :sosp:

[poita]

even 2 a year would be a nice return.

pencil me in for an insignia vxr wagon ;)

[Wraith]

Well in Aus we get ripped off big time, so i was fortunate enough my parents live in UK so got Dad on the search for ages. After deciding not to buy a RS500 a guy he works with pointed us in the direction of below (link below pic shows what is done to it).

Happy to report in just over 12 months time this will be in my garage as a Personal Import with next to no K's on it as we started with a new car and got the full house put in it :yikes:

Less than 50k landed and registered is a bargain :ihih:

http://j-w-racing.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/jwr400_full.jpg

http://j-w-racing.co.uk/product.php/6785/0/the_jwr400_focus_rs_mk2_

That's quite a read and build there...sounds like a very OTT effort and typical of UK tuning houses.

That should put a big smile on your face when you eventually get your hands on it Operator :)

[TheOperator]

That's quite a read and build there...sounds like a very OTT effort and typical of UK tuning houses.

That should put a big smile on your face when you eventually get your hands on it Operator :)

Lets just say i think quite a few Evo's and Sti's and some exotics will get a big surprise :ihih:

I'm going over in New Year it looks like so will take it out to a track day if snow eases and really give it some :thumbs:

Dad has only driven it back after delivery and parked it in garage but said his initial thoughts are it will blow his V8 M3 away and feels nearly on par with his 997 Turbo before it was slightly modded but it's all seat of pants feel talking :sosp:

I figure if i don't like it i can always sell it as plenty of people there and here would love it!

[Greg K]

was listenning to the radio this morning, and a Ford dealer rep was advertising the Focus RS. His plug for the car being exclusive was that "there are only 300 of these world-wide, and we have 3 of them!"

Are dealers that stupid! Surely, a Ford Australia rep would have to confirm that the information he is giving is accurate.

[Wraith]

was listenning to the radio this morning, and a Ford dealer rep was advertising the Focus RS. His plug for the car being exclusive was that "there are only 300 of these world-wide, and we have 3 of them!"

Are dealers that stupid! Surely, a Ford Australia rep would have to confirm that the information he is giving is accurate.

Again a case of typical stealers trying to milk it, but looking very silly if not quite arrogant with their efforts :out:

Hopefully interested buyers out there arn't falling for it and getting un-necessarily ripped off...

[CORZZA]

All have been sold except one or two which a very clever dealer has been holding onto.

Blady awesome car to drive.

[kabel]

More importantly shows that not everyone makes decisions based on rational judgements.
Those that wanted them payed the money.
This is a good thing for us enthusiasts !

[Shaun]

All have been sold except one or two which a very clever dealer has been holding onto.

Blady awesome car to drive.

I know of 3 that are for sale and not sold. One i have the option too buy. Not saying where it is or the price ive been offered one for but will say its extremely tempting. I need to find a buyer for my VXR though.

[kabel]

Shaun,
I know of somebody in WA looking for an Arden Blue VXR.

Kim.

[Wraith]

All have been sold except one or two which a very clever dealer has been holding onto.

Blady awesome car to drive.

Are you sure ?????

I checked just yesterday and there were still at least '52' for sale advertised on Car Sales...

Is it case of false advertising or is/has someone got their story up side down ?????

[gman]

I know of 4 that r available.

For me the RS250 Megane is a better car..and I wouldn't have to deal with lying Ford stealers!!!!!!

[kabel]

Are you sure ?????

I checked just yesterday and there were still at least '52' for sale advertised on Car Sales...

Is it case of false advertising or is/has someone got their story up side down ?????

Looked also at Carsales yesterday appears to be a lot still not found owners.
Maybe a dealer selling a story ?
:-)

[Wraith]

OK I've just checked again as we speak and there are '54' for sale Australia wide on the Carsales network...

I would assume that there would be others for sale on other selling boards too other than Carsales ??

Either way there's still plenty there for grabs, or so it would seem unless some people are pulling or trying to pull major fibs :skep:

[Wraith]

Bump For anyone interested in these, seems like there are even more now still available compared to before...especially after some people thought they were all sold...

Carsales is showing around 80 ATM.

I'm assuming there would still be the better part of 100 still out there looking for homes as there would be listings other than Carsales.

Price seems to also be coming down (as predicted) on some of them, under 60k now, poor buggers who paid those ridiculous prices we were hearing of not too long ago :(

[kabel]

Hah !
The Weekend West Motoring section had a story on the RS and word from the Ford dealers is they were all sold before being released !

[gman]

Whats with the WA stealers (sorry dealers) still looking for $70K+?!?!?!

If you walked into a dealer and said $59K drive away I think you'd have a new car....

[Houdini]

It7s insane how all the news outlets lapped up the propaganda about them all being sold before they hit our shores. 30% are still available months after release. If they ever come down below the luxury car tax threshold they might sell a few more.
Actually it's now a 2010 model being sold in 2011 so they should be doing run out specials on them right :)

[kabel]

The article in the paper had Ford talking them up as collectors cars with the value remaining high............

[JohnBu]

The article in the paper had Ford talking them up as collectors cars with the value remaining high............

pleaseeeeeeeeeeee........................

[Wraith]

Unfortunately all this hype created by Ford and their stealers was obviously a milking campaign and they over estimated the actual demand !!!

Now they're going to be giving em away to move em off showroom floors as the initial interested uptake is done and dusted...

Lucky last few will be the benefitters of all of this, IMHO they'll end up paying mid or even low 50's driveaway - that's actually a good price for one of these, so those peeps should just hold off and wait :)

[tomtom]

i love how the second entry in carsales reads

"Hard to find Focus RS... With a 224kw high-performance engine, aggressive RS styling and a short fuse. Can you handle it?"

Theres more than 6 pages. hehe

[kabel]

Somebody couldn`t as there is a used one already at Barbagallo`s here in Perth.
Going to have a close up look on my way home from work.

[Wraith]

LOL ^^^

More likely a case of finance gone wrong...

According to a Ford rep I spoke to last weekend, there are 21 left for sale, despite there being around 60 still advertised...go figure :rolleyes5:

[OPC]

i got one...

[Nurb608]

i got one...

Nice one, and in white too I see :) Enjoy Jay!

[OPC]

Nice one, and in white too I see :) Enjoy Jay!

thanks... wish i lived in melb to see how it goes up against your weapon.. WHITE ROCKS **i dont mean cocaine**

[Nurb608]

thanks... wish i lived in melb to see how it goes up against your weapon.. WHITE ROCKS **i dont mean cocaine**

Bring it down next track day with Glenn ;)

Tims and Dave's car are the exact same spec as mine pretty much now and running with less problems than mine at the moment lol. They'd be able to compare with ya up there :D

You still got the G or sold it to get this?

[OPC]

Bring it down next track day with Glenn ;)

Tims and Dave's car are the exact same spec as mine pretty much now and running with less problems than mine at the moment lol. They'd be able to compare with ya up there :D

You still got the G or sold it to get this?

yeah sold the G hence why im sellin tims old brakes and all the other crap

i was planning on seeing glenn this week to swap cars for a few minutes

last time i went and saw tim i got a fine in the mail :(
nearlly got one this arvo aswell hahaha damn its hard not to let it unleash

i tell ya the noise that comes from under the bonnet is frikin unbelievable
its hard to explain in words, you need to experience it for yourself

[Nurb608]

You know there's a box in them that is there purely to make that sound dont you :p But i know what ya mean, the in cabin sound of the xr5's is awesome so would be even better in the RS.

[poita]

congrats on the purchase :)

[JohnBu]

Congrats!

I like the RS.. saw one in the flesh in White.... great colour.

The owner of the car drove off when I was looking at parked near Autobarn... pity he didn't give it a bootful.

Do you mind asking me what price you paid or the changeover price?

I'd doubt you would get much for the SRiT trade in.

[gman]

Yeah Jay SMS'd me the other day to tell me he'd got one.

Looking forward to seeing to in the flesh. Pity I was at work today, would have been nice to catch up.

You should def come down to Vic next time Jay. Winton rocks!!!! ;)

[dieselhead]

Had a look at this puppy yesterday....
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAJinZPFBI/AAAAAAAAEww/Z00la-lcLAQ/s800/129_2402.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAJhxOIrpI/AAAAAAAAEws/1INY2RSvNmw/s800/129_2400.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAJg3dszdI/AAAAAAAAEwk/OiF57mFenmE/s800/129_2399.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAJkJrPEDI/AAAAAAAAEw4/gCkLr8WCOh0/s800/129_2404.JPG

[dieselhead]

...and this one!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAIzLbgK0I/AAAAAAAAErw/BrT-x2oMpCk/s800/129_2307.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAIz4i2PyI/AAAAAAAAEr4/L1GDjjCbjuM/s800/129_2308.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAIx70N5iI/AAAAAAAAEro/t80Gin_wNUc/s800/129_2304.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_eBNN6aOqjCk/TUAIwZRk9uI/AAAAAAAAErg/P891VVrzyeY/s800/129_2302.JPG

[adam_92]

yeah there very nice and the prices are dropping crazily... maybe one day haha

[boorny88]

a bloody P plater driving one wtf

[adam_92]

yeah this guy was older though. must have been a naughty boy on his p's originally and got a much longer time. but belive me that was the reaction of about 90% of the people when he drove in... how the fu*ck can a p plater afford a rs

[OPC]

Congrats!

.

Do you mind asking me what price you paid or the changeover price?

I'd doubt you would get much for the SRiT trade in.

yeah i dont mind saying... $64,990 drive away
and i got a full sized RS 19" wheel as a spare chucked in
instead of that fix it crap which is useless if you get a major flat

got raped with the trade in but it was fallin apart around me 135,000kms

[kabel]

yeah i dont mind saying... $64,990 drive away
and i got a full sized RS 19" wheel as a spare chucked in
instead of that fix it crap which is useless if you get a major flat

got raped with the trade in but it was fallin apart around me 135,000kms
Think the dealers will always rape you on a trade-in,just hoped they gently raped you !
Good call on the colour too.
Enjoy.
And keep us informed about what your thoughts are on the drive.

[BEK-46P]

I distinctly remember thinking then green one at the Motor Show was rather vulgar.

But the white one, now that's got presence :D

[Wraith]

yeah i dont mind saying... $64,990 drive away
and i got a full sized RS 19" wheel as a spare chucked in
instead of that fix it crap which is useless if you get a major flat

got raped with the trade in but it was fallin apart around me 135,000kms

Congrats...

Mind your license now or you'll be wearing p's again like that other guy in thepics above LOL :D

[JohnBu]

OPC..Did you cross shop it with any of the other top hatches- RS250 and Golf R?

[Hoss]

Congrats on the purchase. I originally liked the green, but I now think the white looks excellent. More subtle, and the black contrasts nicely with white.

[gmonkey]

Now someone in nsw go buy the blue tdi scirocco on carsales that's been imported by a dealer so it has a warranty....

[OPC]

OPC..Did you cross shop it with any of the other top hatches- RS250 and Golf R?

yeah had a look at the renault megane , rexie, VW even had a look at skodas
tried to check out some Evo's but couldnt find any MR's
also went to 5 ford dealers to check different prices,
and let me tell ya they basically knew nothing about the car or were not interested in me
one sheila didnt even know a single thing about the car and even told me she hated it

started to look at VW's and had to slap myself before my brother did
the megane was nice but i wanted a bit more power

the choice of colour was always gunna be white
i originally wanted a nurburg but none available
green looks too much like kawasaki green
and blue is too dark to keep clean
plus white and the black rear splitter and wing looks the bizz

[gman]

Jay, the car is a stunner..

The Megane RS250 is an amazing thing. There is a tuner in Euroland that can already up it from 184kw and 340Nm to 224kw and 415Nm.

Add an exhaust, FMIC and a few other little goodies and it would be almost as good as the RS...But the Focus will always look much more aggresive and the sound from that 5 cylinder engine is awesome!! :thumbs:

[nigelh]

If I was in the market for that type of car I would go with the megane.

[OPC]

Jay, the car is a stunner..

The Megane RS250 is an amazing thing. There is a tuner in Euroland that can already up it from 184kw and 340Nm to 224kw and 415Nm.

Add an exhaust, FMIC and a few other little goodies and it would be almost as good as the RS...But the Focus will always look much more aggresive and the sound from that 5 cylinder engine is awesome!! :thumbs:

yes the megane was my 2nd choice and yes its a stunner aswell
but not as mean lookin as the RS

in saying what you said about the tuner
there is also a tuner in england getting 275 kw out of the RS
with turbo, internals, fmic & exhaust

but im not about to go out and do that just yet
need to save up first hahaha
you know me cant have a standard car for long

[Wraith]

yes the megane was my 2nd choice and yes its a stunner aswell
but not as mean lookin as the RS

in saying what you said about the tuner
there is also a tuner in england getting 275 kw out of the RS
with turbo, internals, fmic & exhaust

but im not about to go out and do that just yet
need to save up first hahaha
you know me cant have a standard car for long

You'll get or should get that sort of power and more with the mechanicals as is OPC...

RS Focus runs a BW K16 (same as TT-RS) and the 2.5 IL5 in that thing can be tuned to over 300kw / 570nm just with software...

Unless of course internal mechanicals, injectors etc. arn't rated to go that high ??

The donk in the TT-RS has been component tested to 436kw ! I'm assuming the RS's Cosworth massaged Volvo donk would be good for 300kw + at least...

[dieselhead]

I reckon the RS has plenty of power and road presence bog stock. Power, as we all know, is nothing without control. Why turn a brilliant car into a mindless drag racing device?! The Focus is the ultimate bloke's hot hatch, hands down. Not many cars, surely none this side of an M3 or something like that, has more road presence without being tacky like HSVs and shit like that. If you wanna go fast though, and I mean really fast, the Megane RS250 is the way to go. It is already faster in corners and more stable at high speeds than anything hot hatch. Scary thinking what a RS300 could do, even scarier what a stripped down version ala R26.R would be like...

Congrats for the purchase, the car's a stunner! That was my dream car for a while, but I have fallen for the Clio while waiting for Ford to make up their mind.

[kabel]

Thorney Motorsport are doing Focus RS upgrades,check their site.

Are Renault bringing out a Megane RS300 ?

[dieselhead]

This modified Megane, sp (http://www.sacarfan.co.za/2010/07/hotter-renault-megane-rs-300-in-the-works/)ied testing at the Nordschleife, is the best proof yet that Renaultsport is ramping up its hottest hatch in preparation for the next-gen Focus RS’s arrival. The Megane 250 has been one of the current Focus’s toughest rivals, even though it gives away around 40 kW to the RS.
Renaultsport is likely to attempt to narrow that gap with the revised model. Sources say the firm’s 2,0-litre engine could produce considerably more power – possibly as much as 220 kW (330 BHP) – enough to rival the Focus and the next-gen Astra OPC, which is likely to have a similar figure.
The Mégane’s chassis is likely to receive only minor tweaks for the hotter model. Its mechanical limited-slip differential is said to have the capacity to cope with greater power, even at its most aggressive setting.

http://www.sacarfan.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sacarfan-renault-megane-rs-300-4.jpg

[kabel]

Cheers.
Interestingly the Megane seems to lose nothing to the Focus on a track.
Good article on both cars in the latest Motor magazine.

Some intersting videos on the Evo magazine website to.

[BEK-46P]

http://www.sacarfan.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sacarfan-renault-megane-rs-300-4.jpg

The similarity between this and the current gen AH is uncanny, particular the ass. Having said that, I think it looks somewhat dated for 2011.

[Keep'emRunning]

..saw Jays RS today, what a stunning piece of machinery... *envious*

Just wish I had the time to take up his offer for a drive!

[OPC]

..saw Jays RS today, what a stunning piece of machinery... *envious*

Just wish I had the time to take up his offer for a drive!

maybe next time when i come over to drop that pipe off for ya...

[dieselhead]

Went for a short drive in the hills today with two Fords, one XR5 and the other one a green RS. WHAT A CAR!!! The noises that thing was making were fantastic, especially in the tunnel... My oh my, this is one bad arse piece of kit :)

[OPC]

Went for a short drive in the hills today with two Fords, one XR5 and the other one a green RS. WHAT A CAR!!! The noises that thing was making were fantastic, especially in the tunnel... My oh my, this is one bad arse piece of kit :)

every time i jump in it i go :) :) :) :) :)

[Wraith]

This modified Megane, sp (http://www.sacarfan.co.za/2010/07/hotter-renault-megane-rs-300-in-the-works/)ied testing at the Nordschleife, is the best proof yet that Renaultsport is ramping up its hottest hatch in preparation for the next-gen Focus RS’s arrival. The Megane 250 has been one of the current Focus’s toughest rivals, even though it gives away around 40 kW to the RS.
Renaultsport is likely to attempt to narrow that gap with the revised model. Sources say the firm’s 2,0-litre engine could produce considerably more power – possibly as much as 220 kW (330 BHP) – enough to rival the Focus and the next-gen Astra OPC, which is likely to have a similar figure.
The Mégane’s chassis is likely to receive only minor tweaks for the hotter model. Its mechanical limited-slip differential is said to have the capacity to cope with greater power, even at its most aggressive setting.

http://www.sacarfan.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sacarfan-renault-megane-rs-300-4.jpg

If such a vehicle becomes reality, it'll go straight to the top of the hot hatch ladder...

Wonder what price point it'll have...

[dieselhead]

Shouldn't cost much more than the current Trophee. In fact, it could be Megane's mid life face lift. Let's not forget the RS is not being manufactured any more and there's no replacement for it in the near future. In fact, Ford repeatedly said this is the last RS... Can't see what could top a 300 HP, perfectly balanced RS300. The Golf R is an absolute joke in this company and there's nothing else this side of a Porsche Cayman to come close enough. I hope Opel's top shelf Astra will be up there but judging by what they have managed so far, well, it's not that promising. Don't get me wrong, the OPC/VXR are not bad by any means, but they're not in the same league with RS and RS250. The fact that Renault SPORT manages to sell RS performance level cars for Golf GTI money is astonishing in my view. And that is great news for all of us!

[Wraith]

Shouldn't cost much more than the current Trophee. In fact, it could be Megane's mid life face lift. Let's not forget the RS is not being manufactured any more and there's no replacement for it in the near future. In fact, Ford repeatedly said this is the last RS... Can't see what could top a 300 HP, perfectly balanced RS300. The Golf R is an absolute joke in this company and there's nothing else this side of a Porsche Cayman to come close enough. I hope Opel's top shelf Astra will be up there but judging by what they have managed so far, well, it's not that promising. Don't get me wrong, the OPC/VXR are not bad by any means, but they're not in the same league with RS and RS250. The fact that Renault SPORT manages to sell RS performance level cars for Golf GTI money is astonishing in my view. And that is great news for all of us!

Not sticking up for the VW as Golfs have never really been my thing, but the saving grace for the Golf R is the fact it enjoys a tremendous advantage in certain conditions over all other hot hatches (except Wrx/Sti) with its AWD...and modified to similar or higher power levels as say the Focus RS, it aquits itself well both on road and on a track, I've seen an APS modified one take on the likes of BMW 135i, Audi S3 etc. and it easily beat all comers on the track...

It also has the far better interior of any of the hot hatches...

[kabel]

Not sticking up for the VW as Golfs have never really been my thing, but the saving grace for the Golf R is the fact it enjoys a tremendous advantage in certain conditions over all other hot hatches (except Wrx/Sti) with its AWD...and modified to similar or higher power levels as say the Focus RS, it aquits itself well both on road and on a track, I've seen an APS modified one take on the likes of BMW 135i, Audi S3 etc. and it easily beat all comers on the track...

It also has the far better interior of any of the hot hatches...
Plus generally a different buyer is after a Golf R vs WRX/Evo etc.
And yes an APR remap works wonders on the VAG 2.0l T.
Although I think sporty VW`s are a bit soft chassis wise.
Based on the couple I have driven they tend to be very pitchy under acceleration and braking.

Just my 2 cents :-)

[Wraith]

Plus generally a different buyer is after a Golf R vs WRX/Evo etc.
And yes an APR remap works wonders on the VAG 2.0l T.
Although I think sporty VW`s are a bit soft chassis wise.
Based on the couple I have driven they tend to be very pitchy under acceleration and braking.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Agree...

They're built for the daily driver usage with the occaisional track fang as secondary, whereas other types like the RS250, Focus RS etc. are more concerned with greater enthusiast track use in mind, but sacrifice daily driver live-ability...

[dieselhead]

The 250 is not stiffer than a GTI for daily driving. Fact. Don't believe me, take one for a drive :)
I totally agree that Rs with significant APR upgrades are really great beasts. Problem is, they cost a lot and when you add the price of the car it simply borders insanity. I have seen examples that after engine, suspension and braking mods got close to $100k!!! Why on earth would anyone spend that sort of money on a Golf?! And is this any proof that R is better than a stock Megane that comes with Brembo brakes? :)

[Wraith]

The 250 is not stiffer than a GTI for daily driving. Fact. Don't believe me, take one for a drive :)
I totally agree that Rs with significant APR upgrades are really great beasts. Problem is, they cost a lot and when you add the price of the car it simply borders insanity. I have seen examples that after engine, suspension and braking mods got close to $100k!!! Why on earth would anyone spend that sort of money on a Golf?! And is this any proof that R is better than a stock Megane that comes with Brembo brakes? :)

Agree with the above diesel, anyone could really get carried away with upgrade costs to any car and in the case of the Golf, it can get really carried away and most would agree that once optioned up Golfs look less and less justified...but each to their own I guess...

With regards to live-ability it's not just about ride quality, it's about all things considered when in use as a daily driver, for eg. things like how easy or not is it to get in and out of the car all of the time ?? cars with heavily bolstered seats are a PITA and usually end up having the drivers seat exit side bolster all worn out...things like unnecessary or unwanted attention, drive around in a Focus RS and every hoon and his dog will want to take a sniff and pea you off, cops will do the same etc. etc.

At the end of the day it's all about what the individual is happy to live with or not, those things above don't bother me at all as long as I'm not putting up with everyday :)

[Rogue]

The golf r is the 'better car'. This might incite cricicism but it is the truth. Build quality is higher, ride quality is higher, it doesnt skimp on any luxury features but also has the potential to be taken to levels the others sturggle to achieve. Its no secret renault like to gain their speed from weight reduction and things of the like which in turn does sacrifice ride/build quality. The idea of a hot hatch is simply that, a hot hatch. Not a full fledged race car. I mean great, the other companys are pre tuning their cars towards cornering speed from the factory but that makes it very hard to go back to a comfortable ride should you choose to. Vw are the original hot hatch company...just remember that :)

[Rogue]

although i must say i prefer the MK IV r32 to the new golf r.

[Nurb608]

Sorry, but a "hot hatch" should also look good and the Renault looks alot better than the Golf R.

[Rogue]

looks though is something that is down to each individual person. What one may think looks good another may not. What i am talking about is the actual car itself beyond looks.

[Nurb608]

Add 10k (the price difference?) to the rs250 and you can have all the extra stuff the golf r has.

[Wraith]

The golf r is the 'better car'. This might incite cricicism but it is the truth. Build quality is higher, ride quality is higher, it doesnt skimp on any luxury features but also has the potential to be taken to levels the others sturggle to achieve. Its no secret renault like to gain their speed from weight reduction and things of the like which in turn does sacrifice ride/build quality. The idea of a hot hatch is simply that, a hot hatch. Not a full fledged race car. I mean great, the other companys are pre tuning their cars towards cornering speed from the factory but that makes it very hard to go back to a comfortable ride should you choose to. Vw are the original hot hatch company...just remember that :)

Can agree to some extent, but not entirely...

The Golf R has certain advantages already stated in other posts, but IMHO I don't think it has the 'overall' edge, regarding the Renaults, they get superior speeds (mainly cornering) due to a superior chassis which endowes superior handling...

According to reviews, (latest Wheels car of the year article for eg.) the RS250 is only slightly shy of mega dollar supercar handling and cornering...

One thing I would suggest to keep in mind about VW products in general is that they still suffer anything from minor to major unreliability issues, in all World markets and from what you hear VW dealerships are amongst the worst when it comes to fixing problems, prefering to patch up rather than fix the probs...

It's a fact that's got VW in the U.S worried enough for them to want to set up their own manufacturing over there...

[Rogue]

umm..from what i can see the focus rs costs 5-10k more than the golf R new here in aus.

And that is without bluetooth, rear view camera .etc which the golf has.

[Nurb608]

umm..from what i can see the focus rs costs 5-10k more than the golf R new here in aus.

And that is without bluetooth, rear view camera .etc which the golf has.

Rs250 isn't the ford

[Rogue]

i am aware of that,..isn't the thread titled focus rs? and also wouldnt it have to be a comparison between more than just 2 carS? :s


and i mean sure, while the rs250 might be quicker around a track, in real world applications the golf r is much better to drive (speaking from experience here)

[Nurb608]

You've driven both?

And the ford rs, I hate cords but would still prefer it. Roughly the same price but more overall appeal.

[Nurb608]

You've driven both?

And the ford rs, I hate cords but would still prefer it. Roughly the same price but more overall appeal.

Cords = fords :-)

[Rogue]

I sure have, and i agree, the RS 250 is faster, in almost every single way.. But as far as on the road goes i MUCH preferred the golf RS as a car you would drive every day

[Nurb608]

As you said before, eye of the beholder

[dieselhead]

The R is the better car, but as a hot hatch is murdered by the RS and RS250. If you want a fast hatch that's comfortable, with a nice interior and well built, get and R. If you're a poser with more money than love for driving, buy an R with DSG. However, if you're an enthusiast that really loves hot hatches, it is one of the other two you're after. VW might have invented the genre but today I'd say it lost its way somewhat. Like everything else, hot hatches evolved and became a bit more extreme as regular cars started to handle better and got more powerful. The R I'm afraid is not that much of a hot hatch but rather a GT. An odd one at that, too :)
Just have a look at the RS and the RS 250, they look fast even when they're parked on a driveway. The Golf on the other hand looks exactly as it drives: dull.

Some want a car to drive every day. I need one that gets me excited every day.

[Greg K]

drove my mates Golf R (DSG with 18's) yesterday... its quick, and pops nicely, but isnt that engaging as a 'driver driving a sports car'. The interior fit and finish is great, and everything works ergonimocally; and looks quite subtle on the outside. But for $60k, and wanting a sports car, id be dropping that kind of coin on something a bit more 'special' than a Golf.

For an everyday quick car, its a great all-rounder, but for me it doesnt excell in any particular area

[Wraith]

The R is the better car, but as a hot hatch is murdered by the RS and RS250. If you want a fast hatch that's comfortable, with a nice interior and well built, get and R. If you're a poser with more money than love for driving, buy an R with DSG. However, if you're an enthusiast that really loves hot hatches, it is one of the other two you're after. VW might have invented the genre but today I'd say it lost its way somewhat. Like everything else, hot hatches evolved and became a bit more extreme as regular cars started to handle better and got more powerful. The R I'm afraid is not that much of a hot hatch but rather a GT. An odd one at that, too :)
Just have a look at the RS and the RS 250, they look fast even when they're parked on a driveway. The Golf on the other hand looks exactly as it drives: dull.

Some want a car to drive every day. I need one that gets me excited every day.

That pretty much sums it up :)

At the end of the day it's always a case of each to their own, as long as your happy with what you've spent your money on and happy with what you've got that's all that really matters, opions are just that, opinions no one really cares anyway ;)

[gman]

I've driven all three (Ford RS, RS250 trophee and Gold R) and whilst I will admit my preferences will be very different to most other peoples as well as my point of view on what makes a fast car, I would say the Golf is the bottom of the ladder, with ford 2nd anf the RS250 T at the top.

I test drove a Golf R and a friend of mine has just bought a Golf R and I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago. I also own a VW Tiguan. I found it is souless, dead to drive and lacking any sort of drive feel, feed back or character. Its quick-ish, but not amazing, the handling is very good, neutral but the steering is DEAD!! No weighting, no feed back at all and the DSG is a pain when pushing hard. The only advantage the Gold R has over either car is in the wet with the 4wd. other than that it is IMHO a huge let down.

As a commuter car thats sort of quick it works. As a hot hatch you can commute in, it fails badly.

I test drove a Ford RS (finally). The Ford RS is all noise, theatre and fun. Its sounds amazing, handling is fantastic for a FWD with all that weight of the 2.5Lt out the front and all that power. The down side is that it is no where near as "refined" or sanitised as the Golf R, if you call that a downside. Where the Golf is a fast commuter car, the Ford RS is a seriously quick hot hatch that you can live with to drive everyday.

Then there is the RS250 T. It is lighter than the Ford and Golf, down on power but the way it drives is AMAZING!! The engine is 100% more responsive than the Golf, the steering is better that both, the brakes are excellent, the cornering and power down is fantastoic. The chassis balance and dynamics are fantastic.

I loved the interior.

The Renault is a Stark-designed hotel room to the Golf's sterile doctors surgery and the Ford RS's teenage bedroom. Its nNot to everyones tatse, but I loved the yellow Recaro's and yellow seatbelts. The dash is great, if sometimes hard to read. The yellow tacho is a little bit close to trying to be a Ferrari, but why not. The sound is great for the engine and it LOVES to rev!! As for those that question the Renault reliablilty, one word comes to mind. NISSAN!! The influence from their Japanese associate is undeniable.

If I was staying in Oz, I would have an order for one right now for when the Astra comes off the road in September. As it is, I think I will get a 2nd hand one in 2012. There are already tuner kits for them and runours of a 200kw+ Renault Sport special edition.

For my money, the RS250 is the car to buy at the moment.

[GreyRex]

I've driven all three (Ford RS, RS250 trophee and Gold R) and whilst I will admit my preferences will be very different to most other peoples as well as my point of view on what makes a fast car, I would say the Golf is the bottom of the ladder, with ford 2nd anf the RS250 T at the top.

I test drove a Golf R and a friend of mine has just bought a Golf R and I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago. I also own a VW Tiguan. I found it is souless, dead to drive and lacking any sort of drive feel, feed back or character. Its quick-ish, but not amazing, the handling is very good, neutral but the steering is DEAD!! No weighting, no feed back at all and the DSG is a pain when pushing hard. The only advantage the Gold R has over either car is in the wet with the 4wd. other than that it is IMHO a huge let down.

As a commuter car thats sort of quick it works. As a hot hatch you can commute in, it fails badly.

I test drove a Ford RS (finally). The Ford RS is all noise, theatre and fun. Its sounds amazing, handling is fantastic for a FWD with all that weight of the 2.5Lt out the front and all that power. The down side is that it is no where near as "refined" or sanitised as the Golf R, if you call that a downside. Where the Golf is a fast commuter car, the Ford RS is a seriously quick hot hatch that you can live with to drive everyday.

Then there is the RS250 T. It is lighter than the Ford and Golf, down on power but the way it drives is AMAZING!! The engine is 100% more responsive than the Golf, the steering is better that both, the brakes are excellent, the cornering and power down is fantastoic. The chassis balance and dynamics are fantastic.

I loved the interior.

The Renault is a Stark-designed hotel room to the Golf's sterile doctors surgery and the Ford RS's teenage bedroom. Its nNot to everyones tatse, but I loved the yellow Recaro's and yellow seatbelts. The dash is great, if sometimes hard to read. The yellow tacho is a little bit close to trying to be a Ferrari, but why not. The sound is great for the engine and it LOVES to rev!! As for those that question the Renault reliablilty, one word comes to mind. NISSAN!! The influence from their Japanese associate is undeniable.

If I was staying in Oz, I would have an order for one right now for when the Astra comes off the road in September. As it is, I think I will get a 2nd hand one in 2012. There are already tuner kits for them and runours of a 200kw+ Renault Sport special edition.

For my money, the RS250 is the car to buy at the moment.

Great write-up!!

[Rogue]

start increasing your power and see how your fwd's handle :)

[guy 27]

start increasing your power and see how your fwd's handle :)

if that was aimed at gman. think he knows better than anyone else on this forum


230KW's & (much more than) 400Nm ATW's

[Rogue]

then he should also know what having a lot of power through the front wheels does to your cornering :p

[Nurb608]

then he should also know what having a lot of power through the front wheels does to your cornering :p

I also think he knows how to drive so that's not an issue. The Focus RS has more power than the Golf and handles it extremely well through the corners from all reports.

[Wraith]

Great write-up!!

+2 Again can certainly relate to both the opinions and facts there, especially this opinionated line:

"The Renault is a Stark-designed hotel room to the Golf's sterile doctors surgery and the Ford RS's teenage bedroom"

to which I think exactly the same of those 3 vehicles, especially the RS Focus, it truly is IMHO a teenage wannabe street racers wet dream, but as always opinions are just that, each to their own :)


start increasing your power and see how your fwd's handle :)

This starting to look silly...

There will be a OEM powered up Megane RS down the track, if you researched it a bit more, you'll discover its chassis can easily handle alot more power without compromising the excellent qualities it already posesses !

FYI have a read of the current Wheels mag car of the year review and of interest what they say about the RS Megane...

[Rogue]

I understand the chassis may be great (i never doubted that) but it is the inherant problems of FWD that just cannot be escaped..no matter what the chassis.

its of my opinion anyway that if you really wanted a hot hatch to excite you and for all out performance for the money you would simply buy a car that is a little older and spend the difference getting it to excitement levels that far exceed any of the 3 mentioned.

[J]

I've driven all three (Ford RS, RS250 trophee and Gold R) and whilst I will admit my preferences will be very different to most other peoples as well as my point of view on what makes a fast car, I would say the Golf is the bottom of the ladder, with ford 2nd anf the RS250 T at the top.

I test drove a Golf R and a friend of mine has just bought a Golf R and I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago. I also own a VW Tiguan. I found it is souless, dead to drive and lacking any sort of drive feel, feed back or character. Its quick-ish, but not amazing, the handling is very good, neutral but the steering is DEAD!! No weighting, no feed back at all and the DSG is a pain when pushing hard. The only advantage the Gold R has over either car is in the wet with the 4wd. other than that it is IMHO a huge let down.

As a commuter car thats sort of quick it works. As a hot hatch you can commute in, it fails badly.

I test drove a Ford RS (finally). The Ford RS is all noise, theatre and fun. Its sounds amazing, handling is fantastic for a FWD with all that weight of the 2.5Lt out the front and all that power. The down side is that it is no where near as "refined" or sanitised as the Golf R, if you call that a downside. Where the Golf is a fast commuter car, the Ford RS is a seriously quick hot hatch that you can live with to drive everyday.

Then there is the RS250 T. It is lighter than the Ford and Golf, down on power but the way it drives is AMAZING!! The engine is 100% more responsive than the Golf, the steering is better that both, the brakes are excellent, the cornering and power down is fantastoic. The chassis balance and dynamics are fantastic.

I loved the interior.

The Renault is a Stark-designed hotel room to the Golf's sterile doctors surgery and the Ford RS's teenage bedroom. Its nNot to everyones tatse, but I loved the yellow Recaro's and yellow seatbelts. The dash is great, if sometimes hard to read. The yellow tacho is a little bit close to trying to be a Ferrari, but why not. The sound is great for the engine and it LOVES to rev!! As for those that question the Renault reliablilty, one word comes to mind. NISSAN!! The influence from their Japanese associate is undeniable.

If I was staying in Oz, I would have an order for one right now for when the Astra comes off the road in September. As it is, I think I will get a 2nd hand one in 2012. There are already tuner kits for them and runours of a 200kw+ Renault Sport special edition.

For my money, the RS250 is the car to buy at the moment.

+infinity!!

[Nurb608]

I understand the chassis may be great (i never doubted that) but it is the inherant problems of FWD that just cannot be escaped..no matter what the chassis.

its of my opinion anyway that if you really wanted a hot hatch to excite you and for all out performance for the money you would simply buy a car that is a little older and spend the difference getting it to excitement levels that far exceed any of the 3 mentioned.

Every design, whether fwd, rwd or awd all have inherant problems.

When you come out and tell everyone "The golf r is the 'better car'. This might incite cricicism but it is the truth.", ofcourse everyone else is going to have an opinion. So far i haven't seen anything remotely factual that backs up this claim.

[Rogue]

once you drive the car you see the finish of the car is of a much better standard, you also find that it is better for everyday driving while also being able to handle the twistys. It just seems people are very caught up on the 'performance' aspect with disregard for every other aspect of the car. It is very well appointed compared to the other 2 also. If that isn't factual then i don't know what would be considered to you. Its not about watching youtube reviews. its about driving them.

[Nurb608]

once you drive the car you see the finish of the car is of a much better standard, you also find that it is better for everyday driving while also being able to handle the twistys. It just seems people are very caught up on the 'performance' aspect with disregard for every other aspect of the car. It is very well appointed compared to the other 2 also. If that isn't factual then i don't know what would be considered to you. Its not about watching youtube reviews. its about driving them.

Um, pretty sure there is a post in this thread of someone who was driven all 3 cars that is still going to disagree with you ;)

[Rogue]

i also posted earlier that i have driven them also. If you choose to disregard that then that is fine. It's no skin off my nose, in that post i made i also pointed out that the rs250 felt faster in pretty much all aspects. However that the golf was still the better every day car.

[Nurb608]

However that the golf was still the better every day car for myself.

Fixed it for ya :) And I do agree that everyone will have a different opinion, but I only have mine and a hot hatch in my eyes should excite me, not take me around in comfort.

[Rogue]

if you say it is on a per person basis why do you try discredit my view?

im so sick of hypocrits being on forums.


the vw is the better car (EDIT by GMAN: In your opinion) in the same way that a bmw z4 is better than a 370z (EDIT by GMAN: In your opinion).

Sure the 370z might be the better handling car (stiffer ride .etc).

but the bmw is better. Oh wait..i forgot i was on an opel forum :p

[Nurb608]

if you say it is on a per person basis why do you try discredit my view?

im so sick of hypocrits being on forums.


the vw is the better car in the same way that a bmw z4 is better than a 370z.

Sure the 370z might be the better handling car (stiffer ride .etc).

but the bmw is better. Oh wait..i forgot i was on an opel forum :p

I didn't discredit your view, i stated it was yours.

[Rogue]

to be honest, your opinion means nothing as by the looks of things only one other person and i have actually driven all 3 cars. now if you want to result to name calling it says a lot about your character.


and by the way when you say you have seen nothing remotely factual to back up my claim even after i have stated why it is trying to discredit my opinion.

[gman]

start increasing your power and see how your fwd's handle :)

Well my car is currently producing well over 230kw's ATW's, so approx 275kw's at the flywheel (which works about right with the turbo I'm running). It handles pretty good actually. It was faster around Winton than a fair number of RWD and 4WD cars, both under brakes, mid corner and on exit speed. Being quick in a FWD car is easy, as long as you exercise some finesse and skill.

The problem is that most people when they drive a quick FWD car have no idea how to drive it. The whole "point and shoot" school of digital PS3/XBOX 360, Forza/Gran Turismo doesn't really work where you have real tyres that overheat and have a limited amount of grip.


then he should also know what having a lot of power through the front wheels does to your cornering :p

What it does to your cornering is teaches you to do it properly for the car your driving. I have owned 4WD cars with 600hp and RWD cars with over 700hp and they are all VERY different to drive quickly. You can't point and shoot a FWD the same way you can in a 4WD or use the power to pivot the car like a RWD.

Where FWD has the advantage is inheirent lower weight allowing it to be easier on brakes and tyres and a better power to weigh ratio. Thats why, IMHO, its fun to drive a fast FWD.

My FWD cornering method is:

1: Lots of late braking to get in underneath the heavier RWD and 4WD cars;
2: Get as much speed wiped off in a straight line and settle the car before turn in;
3: Move into the corner with a little bit of trail brakingto keep the car nice and settled up to the apex;
4: Start to unwind the lock mid corner and ease the throttle on;
5: Once the line is set, lock is being bought back to zero (think 10 degrees) and the weight has transferred back across the chassis and not only sitting on the front outside wheel;
6: Push back into the throttle in the same way you do on a RWD car and use the extra pace and slip angle of the front tyres to adjust your line without un-settling the car;
7: If your tyres are getting hot, reduce your post apex throttle and use the straight line speed to catch and out brake the heavier cars.

Its all about feel, the tyres, the steering the brakes. Its a finesse thing, not a point and shoot thing.

My FWD managed low 1:44 at Winton, in 38 degree's, on a brand new engine running a run in tune and only 190kw's ATW, with standard 308mm discs and single pot sliding calipers. I thought that was pretty quick myself...

The main thing that slowed me down were the brakes and the new engine. IMHO there was another 3 or 4 seconds there and maybe 2 or 3 from track knowldge and bigger balls.

Just cause its FWD doesn't mean its not fast, it just means you need to think about it more.

[Rogue]

i never questioned your driving ability g man nor that fwd were fun to drive or that they can be fast...just that rwd/awd can be faster.

[Nurb608]

to be honest, your opinion means nothing as by the looks of things only one other person and i have actually driven all 3 cars. now if you want to result to name calling it says a lot about your character.

to call me a brand snob is pathetic and childish. you do not know me at all.


and by the way when you say you have seen nothing remotely factual to back up my claim even after i have stated why it is trying to discredit my opinion.

Hey atleast i said you could still have your opinion, but i'm not allowed to have mine? I didn't pretend to know you but when you stated "the vw is the better car in the same way that a bmw z4 is better than a 370z" it makes it a bit obvious. 370Z drive away in vic is about $76k. A Z4, depending on the variant, $96k - $128k.

[Rogue]

is it the price of the car that i said made it better? no i did not. you should really think before you speak

[gman]

once you drive the car you see the finish of the car is of a much better standard, you also find that it is better for everyday driving while also being able to handle the twistys. It just seems people are very caught up on the 'performance' aspect with disregard for every other aspect of the car. It is very well appointed compared to the other 2 also. If that isn't factual then i don't know what would be considered to you. Its not about watching youtube reviews. its about driving them.

As the other person who has driven all three cars, I will just say that:

I have a 2010 VW Tiguan and my parents a 2010 Golf. The fit and finish in both is equal and its good, better than average but not great. I found the same true in the Golf R. The VW ergonomics are fantastic, everything in its proper place and it all works, but its not exciting. There's no sence of occasion in the Golf and the quality is good, but he plastics are hard, the metal trim produces reflections that are really annoying at the wrong times, the DSG paddles are FAR to small to be useful and the trim doesn't feel tactile. I will say I LOVE the Golf R steering wheel and the seats.

The Renault has as good if not slightly better materials and fit and finish, but the ergonomics are typically French, in so much as its form over function.

Things aren't always in the right place, but the drivers seat is an exciting place to be. The steering wheel feels nice, the chassis dynamics and steering feel are IMHO much better than the Golf R, the yellow seat belts make it feel like something special, the centre console info display and yellow tacho are nice additionas too.

As said earier, the Golf is a quick commuter car, the Renault is a quick car you can commute in. The two are very different things.

because of the sense of occasion in the Renault and the fact that on a good piece of raod it would be more rewarding and likely quicker than the Golf, its a more exciting and rewarding place to be.

Thats not to say the Golf R isn't, its just that the RS250 is, IMHO a better place to do it from.

But each to their own.. :)

[Neeko]

Well my car is currently producing well over 230kw's ATW's, so approx 275kw's at the flywheel (which works about right with the turbo I'm running). It handles pretty good actually. It was faster around Winton than a fair number of RWD and 4WD cars, both under brakes, mid corner and on exit speed. Being quick in a FWD car is easy, as long as you exercise some finesse and skill.

The problem is that most people when they drive a quick FWD car have no idea how to drive it. The whole "point and shoot" school of digital PS3/XBOX 360, Forza/Gran Turismo doesn't really work where you have real tyres that overheat and have a limited amount of grip.



What it does to your cornering is teaches you to do it properly for the car your driving. I have owned 4WD cars with 600hp and RWD cars with over 700hp and they are all VERY different to drive quickly. You can't point and shoot a FWD the same way you can in a 4WD or use the power to pivot the car like a RWD.

Where FWD has the advantage is inheirent lower weight allowing it to be easier on brakes and tyres and a better power to weigh ratio. Thats why, IMHO, its fun to drive a fast FWD.

My FWD cornering method is:

1: Lots of late braking to get in underneath the heavier RWD and 4WD cars;
2: Get as much speed wiped off in a straight line and settle the car before turn in;
3: Move into the corner with a little bit of trail brakingto keep the car nice and settled up to the apex;
4: Start to unwind the lock mid corner and ease the throttle on;
5: Once the line is set, lock is being bought back to zero (think 10 degrees) and the weight has transferred back across the chassis and not only sitting on the front outside wheel;
6: Push back into the throttle in the same way you do on a RWD car and use the extra pace and slip angle of the front tyres to adjust your line without un-settling the car;
7: If your tyres are getting hot, reduce your post apex throttle and use the straight line speed to catch and out brake the heavier cars.

Its all about feel, the tyres, the steering the brakes. Its a finesse thing, not a point and shoot thing.

My FWD managed low 1:44 at Winton, in 38 degree's, on a brand new engine running a run in tune and only 190kw's ATW, with standard 308mm discs and single pot sliding calipers. I thought that was pretty quick myself...

The main thing that slowed me down were the brakes and the new engine. IMHO there was another 3 or 4 seconds there and maybe 2 or 3 from track knowldge and bigger balls.

Just cause its FWD doesn't mean its not fast, it just means you need to think about it more.

could i start a new thread called how to corner your FWD and copy this into it?

[gman]

i never questioned your driving ability g man nor that fwd were fun to drive or that they can be fast...just that rwd/awd can be faster.

Yeah look not sure I agree with that either. Faster in a straight line, around a circuit, in a drag race, over 20 laps??

But I get what your saying. It all comes down to picking the right weapon for the job, then your preferred poison, be it FWD, RWD or 4WD....

[GreyRex]

is it the price of the car that i said made it better? no i did not. you should really think before you speak

What qualifies to make it 'better' then?

Because you think so, because a journalist says so, going by sales statistics... price?

To say that one is better than the other is subjective

Who are you trying to convince? It's all personal opinion. People look for different things

I'm no brand snob at all... and tbh partly agree with you about FWD, but saying one is better than the other is taking it too far

[Rogue]

the fit and finish on the bmw is better than the nissan (which i have owned), things last longer before breaking .etc. The standard features included in the z4 are better. i do not see why people fail to understand this. its as though it is all about 'best bang for buck'. but sorry it is not. a pulsar gtir hands down gives you the best bang for buck over every single car in this thread. So why don't we all just sell up and buy one of those?

[gman]

the fit and finish on the bmw is better than the nissan (which i have owned), things last longer before breaking .etc. The standard features included in the z4 are better. i do not see why people fail to understand this. its as though it is all about 'best bang for buck'. but sorry it is not. a pulsar gtir hands down gives you the best bang for buck over every single car in this thread. So why don't we all just sell up and buy one of those?

Having helped a friend deal with the tramua of owning a GTi-R, I think I'd rather have a cane toad live in my butt hole...

The GTi-R can be a great car when it works...But the shoe-horned ATTESSA & top mount IC make for intersting dynamics (read over heating and blown head gaskets, broken driveshaft and stripped gear sets) One can be remedied very easily only to fall foul of the ever present issues with the SR20DET engine over 6500rpm.

The short wheel base and extra weight of the AWD system plus an engine and front drivetrain ahead of the front suspension points in what seems like a very heavy chassis (prob designed for WRC punishment) mean that removing the ever present AWD front end push is an exercise akin to using a cheese grater on your gentlemen's parts..

In short, a nice idea but flawed in practice, thats why they never lasted in WRC and faded away very quickly. BUT that being said, some people love them and they can be fast if thats your particular fetish...I like black latex and long legs myself, but thats another story again....

The issue here is a subjective one and thats the issue with defining the right car. Its subjective in so much as everyone will have differing criteria as to what makes a car the right one for them.

For you Rogue it seems its a quality vs performance thing with your preference being for a quality product that performs well enough that you can use everyday. Sounds like a good evenly balanced view.

As I am inhirently unbalanced, my view is skewed toward something that is more performance orientated. And there in lies the quandry. I am lucky enough I can have more than one car. I have the sensible everyday family truckster in the VW Tiguan and its a good thing.

But for my personal car, I want something exciting. Some cars just don't excite me, the same way Rosanne Barr in a g-string doesn't exite me at all. However, put Cheryl Cole in a g-string and thats a whole different ball game...

[Rogue]

im glad you see where i am coming from g man.

yes i know the gtir isnt as polished as one of these newer cars but my point was is that it is the best bang for buck. these can be had for 10k and under and if you wanted to you could pour 10k into one (eliminating the top mount cooler .etc) and have a much better bang for buck car than all these. meanwhile saving yourself 25-45 thousand dollars.

even if you poured 20k into a gtir and saved yourself a little less i guarnetee it would excite you and pul a smile on your face every single time you drive it :p

[gman]

or watched it get pulled on to the back of a tow truck ;)

Not that I can talk after my last little excursion in the Astra :(

[Rogue]

the problem with gtir's is that most of them have been thrashed and trashed. the sr20's themselves are great motors, as is the rest of the car. top mount intercoolers suffer from heatsoak a bit yes but they are still used by the likes of subaru if i am not mistaken (besides it is a couple thousand dollar problem to fix properly) but if you did spend a decent sum of money on one you would have it fresh and very nice ;)

[Rogue]

just to let it be known, my personal preference are neither new age hot hatches nor japanese imports. It is for ford escorts and volkswagen beetles. (supers and L's).....does that make me a brand snob? :p

[kabel]

Hah !
I own an 07 Audi,09 VW,06 VXR and a 1977 V8 Valiant....guess that makes me as unbalanced as gman !

P.S
Price and Quality are not always exclusive bedfellows,you dont always get what you pay for.

[rjastra]

What someone hasn't mentioned is that the ESP on the Golf R cannot be fully switched off. This affects its performance on the track.

You can see on this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4D7IYOxUxY

[Rogue]

ok ok ok ok. im going to spell this out so people get this 'it costs more that is why its better' idea out of their head.

While the golf R costs more than the RS 250 it costs LESS than the focus RS. i also believe the golf has better quality than the focus RS.

may i add i never mentioned it was better because it cost more.


also, although shows like top gear/fifth gear like to test every single car on the track.

you do realise these cars are not built for the track right? they are road cars..lol

and 90% of people who purchase these cars will never see a track.

what you decide to do with them after is your business.

[gmonkey]

Its all personal preference your not full time race drivers these would be your dailys so who gives a shit about "ohhh the rs has 20bhp than the golf" your on public roads.

The car that brings the biggest smile to your face that you can afford is the best car you can ever OWN (not dream)

[poita]

This thread has run it's course and is just going around in circles.

No need for it anymore.

Thread Closed :lock: