colt ralliart - first test drive of a turbo car

[lithium]

our second car kicked the bucket recently, so i've been in the market for a new car. last weekend my financee and i drove out to a dealer and took a look at a three year old colt ralliart.

its a little box car in the same style as the Barina. the cabin is surprisingly roomy and the rear seat can slide forwards and backwards - forwards to carry shopping, backwards to carry passengers. with the seat all the way back the rear leg room is really quite good and it would be comfortable for long trips. also it has 4 doors which is a plus plus in my books, climate control, and very nice recaros in the front

and then i drove it - and was somewhat disappointed? perhaps its because its the first turbo car i've driven and i had overly high expectations. when driving slowly shifting at 3k, it was a slug. so it's off boost. so i started driving harder, shifting at 4.5k - at that point you could start to feel the power but the turbo only spooled up at 3.5k, and it felt like you'd only just begun to hit to power band and then you had to shift - and next gear you'd drop right out of boost and you'd be a slug again

so i tried driving hard, spinning out to near redline before shifting. on boost it was definitely strong - but then every time you shift, even landing above 3.5k in the next gear, the turbo would drop off and you'd have to wait a second for it to spool before the power came back on

honestly it felt that in every day driving, my Barina would make mincemeat out of this turbo hatch - and i couldn't imagine trying to power out of a corner hard with such an awful power delivery!

to the owners of turbo cars: are they all like this? i'm thinking it was something to do with my driving style, maybe i shift too slowly, and i'm not used to having to keep a car in boost? or is it just that the ralliart colt has bad turbo lag or bad gearing?

it just seemed that if you want any sort of performance, you really have to drive the car hard hard hard - bang the next gear in, keep it above 4k. is this normal? if so i have to say, from my short drive i am definitely more an N/A fan :)

interested to be educated by comments from SRiT et al owners :)

[mania]

It's a trait of the majority of japanese turbos. Fit an oversize turbo - get good high power figures, and the associated high track performance, but hard to work on the street. Euro turbos (xr5's, sri's, vxrs, audis etc) tend to fit smaller turbos, great for on-road speed, but not as good at the high end. I don't imagine you'll see a euro offer a 2L 400hp single turbo engine like mitsubishi do for example..

Mine for example reaches peak boost somewhere around 3000rpm. Starts building 2000rpm or a little lower even. But it's boosting about half as much by 5500rpm.

Perks to both approaches of course, just depends on what you want.

Oh, should mention that's a generalization above - the mps3 for example would be what I'd consider euro :p.

[HappySlapper82]

The first turbo car I owned was a 180SX with the SR20DET engine and the previous owner had done performance mods in all the right areas was getting 200kw at only 9psi boost last dyno I had done. For the first couple of days driving it took a lot of getting used to the massive turbo lag, especially when i took the boost above 14psi, but that being said it was loads of fun and I got used of it very quickly, and developed a driving style to match it.

[USC]

Trust me - after you have owned a turbo car and get used to it, You will miss the torque and boost if you go back to n/a (unless you get a V6 or V8 of course).

[lithium]

if the euros like Astras/XR5Ts start boosting by 2K that definitely sounds more usable in street driving - this Ralliart colt didn't feel like it started spooling until 3K+! perhaps the Japs put a turbo that's too large on it?

also it sounds like part of the problem is my driving style :o

re. V6 or V8, that's exactly what we've decided on :) i'm picking up a Magna Sports on friday...163Kw and 317Nm in a 1480kg shell, and it pulls hard right off idle. it's the goods :eek:

[GreyRex]

our second car kicked the bucket recently, so i've been in the market for a new car. last weekend my financee and i drove out to a dealer and took a look at a three year old colt ralliart.

its a little box car in the same style as the Barina. the cabin is surprisingly roomy and the rear seat can slide forwards and backwards - forwards to carry shopping, backwards to carry passengers. with the seat all the way back the rear leg room is really quite good and it would be comfortable for long trips. also it has 4 doors which is a plus plus in my books, climate control, and very nice recaros in the front

and then i drove it - and was somewhat disappointed? perhaps its because its the first turbo car i've driven and i had overly high expectations. when driving slowly shifting at 3k, it was a slug. so it's off boost. so i started driving harder, shifting at 4.5k - at that point you could start to feel the power but the turbo only spooled up at 3.5k, and it felt like you'd only just begun to hit to power band and then you had to shift - and next gear you'd drop right out of boost and you'd be a slug again

so i tried driving hard, spinning out to near redline before shifting. on boost it was definitely strong - but then every time you shift, even landing above 3.5k in the next gear, the turbo would drop off and you'd have to wait a second for it to spool before the power came back on

honestly it felt that in every day driving, my Barina would make mincemeat out of this turbo hatch - and i couldn't imagine trying to power out of a corner hard with such an awful power delivery!

to the owners of turbo cars: are they all like this? i'm thinking it was something to do with my driving style, maybe i shift too slowly, and i'm not used to having to keep a car in boost? or is it just that the ralliart colt has bad turbo lag or bad gearing?

it just seemed that if you want any sort of performance, you really have to drive the car hard hard hard - bang the next gear in, keep it above 4k. is this normal? if so i have to say, from my short drive i am definitely more an N/A fan :)

interested to be educated by comments from SRiT et al owners :)

Unfortunately it's not that easy to say... 'this is why'

The reason you may have felt that with the Colt, is because it's only a 1.5L. The bigger the engine before the turbo is taken into consideration, the more likely you are have a torquey engine... hence not as much boost required

Of course this is a very general rule... but a case in point would be the XR5 vs Astra Turbo/VXR. The 320nM of torque in an XR5 peaks at 1600rpm, and is almost flat until around 5000rpm. The Astra Turbo however peaks around 4000rpm, so it's somewhat lacking down low. I can vouch for this, as I own one. Now obviously the VXR makes more power than the XR5, but the turbo has to boost harder. This can mean a somewhat non-linear power delivery... torque steer etc etc

[USC]

if the euros like Astras/XR5Ts start boosting by 2K that definitely sounds more usable in street driving - this Ralliart colt didn't feel like it started spooling until 3K+! perhaps the Japs put a turbo that's too large on it?

also it sounds like part of the problem is my driving style :o

re. V6 or V8, that's exactly what we've decided on :) i'm picking up a Magna Sports on friday...163Kw and 317Nm in a 1480kg shell, and it pulls hard right off idle. it's the goods :eek:

Is that the AWD version?

[mania]

Wish my dyno chart went to lower revs - but it was definitely well spooled by 2800rpm - 0.8bar, as low as the dyno goes. Peak boost of 1 bar is at 3600rpm.

Those Magna Sports are underrated cars, good pick :).

EDIT: As above! AWD?

[mania]

Of course this is a very general rule... but a case in point would be the XR5 vs Astra Turbo/VXR. The 320nM of torque in an XR5 peaks at 1600rpm, and is almost flat until around 5000rpm. The Astra Turbo however peaks around 4000rpm, so it's somewhat lacking down low. I can vouch for this, as I own one. Now obviously the VXR makes more power than the XR5, but the turbo has to boost harder. This can mean a somewhat non-linear power delivery... torque steer etc etc

Mizled, do you have a source :confused:? Official figure is peak torque of 250Nm available from 1950rpm-5600rpm. Which means the stock map must keep the boost flat from 1950rpm onwards. My map messes it a bit, allowing it to come on harder (1 bar) at 3600rpm.

[USC]

Having owned both an Sri-T and an XR5 Turbo, I can confirm that torque delivery in the XR5T happens at very low revs (1500 as mentioned) and car pulls very well without reving too much. In the sri-t, it felt a bit sluggish until about 3500rpm.....that could also be because of 320NM vs 250NM and 320 is reached at 1500rpm compared to 250 at 1950rpm in sri-t. Im guessing the VXR would be slightly better. The xr5t is a sweet engine and it sounds really nice when driven hard!

[chrissn89]

I believe that it would come down to your driving style quite a bit. Driving a N/A and a turbo car is very different. When you say driving hard, was that flat foot?(wide open throttle = WOT) Power delivery is totally different in a turbo charged car. Its hard to explain in words, well for me it is anyways.

Basically when driving a turbo car, you have on boost and off boost. Off boost is vacuum, which means when idling/cruising and driving soft you engine is running on a vacuum = engine sucking in air. The turbo can boost the air pressure to atmospheric pressure and still not be on boost. This allows the engine to have as much or more power than its N/A version and only using a little throttle. When going on boost the turbo forcing air into the engine. This can only really be done under WOT (wide open throttle) you are able to boost a little from atmospheric to about 4psi with out going on full boost.

Your best bet to fully understand this and the power delivery would be jump in a members or friends turbo car. If it has a PSI gauge with vacuum and boost will make it a easier to understand.

My Astra SRi-T has plenty of power low down with max torque (427Nm) at 2250rpm @ 17psi. 1000rpm = 290Nm @ 11psi


Hope that makes sense, probably not tho. Note this is taken from my car and my understanding. If im wrong please feel free to correct me.

[Wraith]

our second car kicked the bucket recently, so i've been in the market for a new car. last weekend my financee and i drove out to a dealer and took a look at a three year old colt ralliart.

its a little box car in the same style as the Barina. the cabin is surprisingly roomy and the rear seat can slide forwards and backwards - forwards to carry shopping, backwards to carry passengers. with the seat all the way back the rear leg room is really quite good and it would be comfortable for long trips. also it has 4 doors which is a plus plus in my books, climate control, and very nice recaros in the front

and then i drove it - and was somewhat disappointed? perhaps its because its the first turbo car i've driven and i had overly high expectations. when driving slowly shifting at 3k, it was a slug. so it's off boost. so i started driving harder, shifting at 4.5k - at that point you could start to feel the power but the turbo only spooled up at 3.5k, and it felt like you'd only just begun to hit to power band and then you had to shift - and next gear you'd drop right out of boost and you'd be a slug again

so i tried driving hard, spinning out to near redline before shifting. on boost it was definitely strong - but then every time you shift, even landing above 3.5k in the next gear, the turbo would drop off and you'd have to wait a second for it to spool before the power came back on

honestly it felt that in every day driving, my Barina would make mincemeat out of this turbo hatch - and i couldn't imagine trying to power out of a corner hard with such an awful power delivery!

to the owners of turbo cars: are they all like this? i'm thinking it was something to do with my driving style, maybe i shift too slowly, and i'm not used to having to keep a car in boost? or is it just that the ralliart colt has bad turbo lag or bad gearing?

it just seemed that if you want any sort of performance, you really have to drive the car hard hard hard - bang the next gear in, keep it above 4k. is this normal? if so i have to say, from my short drive i am definitely more an N/A fan :)

interested to be educated by comments from SRiT et al owners :)

No way Lithium, something's wrong or a miss there !!!

I'd say that Colt you drove was mechanically unsound or it wasn't boosting or running properly...

I know for a fact there was a member here (ZC74) think it was who took on a turbo Colt a couple of years ago with his V6 Vecce C over a number of drags one night and got his doors blown off every time !

They are pretty quick little zippers...

But just to satisfy yourself, try and get a test drive of several other types of 4 pot turbo cars before making a final judgement, just rock up to any dealership and go for it...they're not all the same and definitely better, faster, quicker and more fun to drive than a similar N/A 4 pot that's for sure :)

[lithium]

Is that the AWD version?


Wish my dyno chart went to lower revs - but it was definitely well spooled by 2800rpm - 0.8bar, as low as the dyno goes. Peak boost of 1 bar is at 3600rpm.

Those Magna Sports are underrated cars, good pick :).

EDIT: As above! AWD?

i got the front driver - less things to break and easier to get spare parts when they do! i've been a bit burnt from my experiences trying to find SRi Barinas at the wreckers, so this time i am going for a mainstream car :)

also i believe the AWD magna is a bit porky - the fwd is way way faster. and fwd isn't half as bad as people like to make out ;)

[lithium]

I believe that it would come down to your driving style quite a bit. Driving a N/A and a turbo car is very different. When you say driving hard, was that flat foot?(wide open throttle = WOT) Power delivery is totally different in a turbo charged car. Its hard to explain in words, well for me it is anyways.

Basically when driving a turbo car, you have on boost and off boost. Off boost is vacuum, which means when idling/cruising and driving soft you engine is running on a vacuum = engine sucking in air. The turbo can boost the air pressure to atmospheric pressure and still not be on boost. This allows the engine to have as much or more power than its N/A version and only using a little throttle. When going on boost the turbo forcing air into the engine. This can only really be done under WOT (wide open throttle) you are able to boost a little from atmospheric to about 4psi with out going on full boost.

Your best bet to fully understand this and the power delivery would be jump in a members or friends turbo car. If it has a PSI gauge with vacuum and boost will make it a easier to understand.

My Astra SRi-T has plenty of power low down with max torque (427Nm) at 2250rpm @ 17psi. 1000rpm = 290Nm @ 11psi


Hope that makes sense, probably not tho. Note this is taken from my car and my understanding. If im wrong please feel free to correct me.

yes it makes sense and is what i noticed. when driving hard it was at WOT. i guess i felt that it was sort of 'all or nothing' - there wasn't much power until you were WOT, in the second half of the rev range and the turbo had spooled up! perhaps its just something i'd have to get used to if i buy a turbo car in future

[lithium]

No way Lithium, something's wrong or a miss there !!!

I'd say that Colt you drove was mechanically unsound or it wasn't boosting or running properly...

I know for a fact there was a member here (ZC74) think it was who took on a turbo Colt a couple of years ago with his V6 Vecce C over a number of drags one night and got his doors blown off every time !

They are pretty quick little zippers...

But just to satisfy yourself, try and get a test drive of several other types of 4 pot turbo cars before making a final judgement, just rock up to any dealership and go for it...they're not all the same and definitely better, faster, quicker and more fun to drive than a similar N/A 4 pot that's for sure :)

hmm, its possible Wraith but the engine did sound pretty healthy. when it was on boost it was definitely strong, and IF you could keep it there, it would certainly blow the doors right off my Barina. i could believe it would do the same for an auto V6 veccie as well.

i guess my main gripe was that it was difficult to keep on boost and drive like that - one gear too high at the wrong time, one gear change too slow, go off WOT and the boost would disappear and you'd have to wait a second or more for the turbo to spool it back up. probably its my driving style but it was a new experience for me :) i'll take your advice and when its time to replace a car again, i'll give a few more turbo 4 pots a go to see how they are

[Ice]

to the owners of turbo cars: are they all like this? i'm thinking it was something to do with my driving style, maybe i shift too slowly, and i'm not used to having to keep a car in boost? or is it just that the ralliart colt has bad turbo lag or bad gearing?


your welcome to take my 09 CDTi for a test drive. I can gaurantee you wont be dissapointed, Stock it has 320nM

[rjastra]

i got the front driver - less things to break and easier to get spare parts when they do! i've been a bit burnt from my experiences trying to find SRi Barinas at the wreckers, so this time i am going for a mainstream car


You can always add a supercharger to the 3.5L v6 ;)

[gman]

Unfortunately it's not that easy to say... 'this is why'

The reason you may have felt that with the Colt, is because it's only a 1.5L. The bigger the engine before the turbo is taken into consideration, the more likely you are have a torquey engine... hence not as much boost required

Of course this is a very general rule... but a case in point would be the XR5 vs Astra Turbo/VXR. The 320nM of torque in an XR5 peaks at 1600rpm, and is almost flat until around 5000rpm. The Astra Turbo however peaks around 4000rpm, so it's somewhat lacking down low. I can vouch for this, as I own one. Now obviously the VXR makes more power than the XR5, but the turbo has to boost harder. This can mean a somewhat non-linear power delivery... torque steer etc etc


Mizled, do you have a source :confused:? Official figure is peak torque of 250Nm available from 1950rpm-5600rpm. Which means the stock map must keep the boost flat from 1950rpm onwards. My map messes it a bit, allowing it to come on harder (1 bar) at 3600rpm.


Having owned both an Sri-T and an XR5 Turbo, I can confirm that torque delivery in the XR5T happens at very low revs (1500 as mentioned) and car pulls very well without reving too much. In the sri-t, it felt a bit sluggish until about 3500rpm.....that could also be because of 320NM vs 250NM and 320 is reached at 1500rpm compared to 250 at 1950rpm in sri-t. Im guessing the VXR would be slightly better. The xr5t is a sweet engine and it sounds really nice when driven hard!

Mizled_SRi-T, I am starting to understand your name a bit more. You really don't seem to like your AH SRi-T too much...Is it really that bad?? ;)

The characteristics of an engine are influenced by more than just its capacity and in the case of turbo cars, the boost it runs.

Using the examples given influences include:

The XR5 is a 5 cylinder vs the SRi-T 4 cylinder
The XR5 is 2.5Lt capacity vs 2.0Lt capacity
The XR5 has a slightly higher compression ratio of 9.0:1 vs the SRi-T's 8.8:1
The XR5 runs max boost of 0.65bar vs the SRi-T's maximum of 0.68 bar
The XR5 has a 6 speed vs the SRi-T's 5 speed gearbox

So an XR5 will produce more torque off boost due to higher compression ratio, larger capacity and greater number of cylinders. To do this it uses more fuel also but can use either lower boost and or the same size turbo to reduce lag and get more torque earlier as there are more cylinders driving the same size turbine to the same boost levels.

There is also the tuning and the actual design of the engine, head, cams, engine management, ancillaries etc but that's a whole different story. Also you can have different styles of turbo cars. Low boost efficiency or high boost performance applications. I would prob put both the XR5 and SRi-T in the middle of the road...Semi performance applications.

However, to say the SRi-T is lacking low end torque in stock form I'd have to disagree. For a 2.0Lt turbo its pretty good and I've never had an issue with it. My other cars have more cylinders and bigger engines and in some ways I actually like the SRi-T more...But in relation to the XR5, its simply just that the XR5 has more of almost everything! More cylinders, more capacity, more compression and from what I've read it uses more fuel to do it to...But that's the trade off...Same as a V8 or V6...

As for Japanese turbo cars and lots of lag, it usually the case. But as said you learn to drive around it. The Japanese engineers say it's so you can drive the car normally off boost around town but then have performance only when you need it. Whatever either way, I like'em... :D

[USC]

AH SRI-T is 6 speed manual. Petrol consumption for AH SRI-T is 9.2/100km and 9.5/100km for a Mondeo XR5(mind you, it is a much larger car). The XR5 seems more economical than the AH SRI-T I had from real life experience.

[mania]

Interesting - does it have EGR? Of course it does depend on how you drive it though.. only review (http://www.cartorque.co.za/0386.htm) I could really find on fuel consumption for the focus ST said they were seeing 15L/100km. Whilst they were probably driving particularly hard - I really struggle to exceed 13L/100kms =/. Average around 9.5-10L.

EDIT: I kept on looking, and found a few more. Here (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/206863/ford_focus_st.html) (between 25-23mpg - 11.3-12.3L/100kms), and here (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=447368) where some owners are seeing 14.2L/100kms

Not too surprising - the engine with 25% increased displacement uses 25% more fuel :p.

[GreyRex]

Mizled, do you have a source :confused:? Official figure is peak torque of 250Nm available from 1950rpm-5600rpm. Which means the stock map must keep the boost flat from 1950rpm onwards. My map messes it a bit, allowing it to come on harder (1 bar) at 3600rpm.


Interesting - does it have EGR? Of course it does depend on how you drive it though.. only review (http://www.cartorque.co.za/0386.htm) I could really find on fuel consumption for the focus ST said they were seeing 15L/100km. Whilst they were probably driving particularly hard - I really struggle to exceed 13L/100kms =/. Average around 9.5-10L.

EDIT: I kept on looking, and found a few more. Here (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/206863/ford_focus_st.html) (between 25-23mpg - 11.3-12.3L/100kms), and here (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=447368) where some owners are seeing 14.2L/100kms

Not too surprising - the engine with 25% increased displacement uses 25% more fuel :p.

Yeh i'd say you're right.

I use roughly 9.5 - 10L/100kms as well

From reading owners reports, i'd say the XR5 would be around the high 11's

And in relation to my satisfaction with my car Gman... it's never been that high. And i've owned it since new as well

[nuggz]

your just hard to please ben :p

[Ice]

Interesting - does it have EGR? Of course it does depend on how you drive it though.. only review (http://www.cartorque.co.za/0386.htm) I could really find on fuel consumption for the focus ST said they were seeing 15L/100km. Whilst they were probably driving particularly hard - I really struggle to exceed 13L/100kms =/. Average around 9.5-10L.

EDIT: I kept on looking, and found a few more. Here (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/206863/ford_focus_st.html) (between 25-23mpg - 11.3-12.3L/100kms), and here (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=447368) where some owners are seeing 14.2L/100kms

Not too surprising - the engine with 25% increased displacement uses 25% more fuel :p.

sorry a bit cheeky I know ... im averaging 6.3L/100km and struggling to get it to 6.4......I can only push the car so Hard !

[Wraith]

hmm, its possible Wraith but the engine did sound pretty healthy. when it was on boost it was definitely strong, and IF you could keep it there, it would certainly blow the doors right off my Barina. i could believe it would do the same for an auto V6 veccie as well.

i guess my main gripe was that it was difficult to keep on boost and drive like that - one gear too high at the wrong time, one gear change too slow, go off WOT and the boost would disappear and you'd have to wait a second or more for the turbo to spool it back up. probably its my driving style but it was a new experience for me :) i'll take your advice and when its time to replace a car again, i'll give a few more turbo 4 pots a go to see how they are

If you drive one of the slightly larger displacement turbo 4's or even a 2.5 IL5 like the XR5T Fords/Volvos they will most probably give you a different feel again as they come on boost fairly low in the rev range (say 1,600-2,400rpm) and at those low rev ranges may already have as much as 80% torque output (or even 100% like most Audi engines) then the drive is great and even if you get caught in the wrong gear/revs/speed, they'll still pull away harder/quicker than a typical N/A engine :)

If you get the chance, go test drive a MPS3, you'll walk away wanting to buy it because of how powerful and strong it feels to drive regardless of what gear or speed your at, it makes our 2.0ltr turbo Astras feel like that Colt you discribed by comparison... :)

[GreyRex]

your just hard to please ben :p

I try not to be mate... believe me

Weak Brakes
Creaking rear bushes (after being replaced under warranty)
Sounds like a diesel at idle
Flash not being up to scratch

And now I have a clicking sound when I take off, which I don't know if I can bothered getting looked at...

[mania]

What car were you coming from Mizled? And are you sure it's the same engine in yours as is in mine? Sometimes I feel like we're talking about different cars... odd how preferences differ isn't it :p.

For instance, I don't think there's a diesel on Earth that sounds at good at idle as a stock sri-t =/, and found the stock brakes above average. Sucks about your warranty issues though :(. My only real issue with the car is that it's addictive to mod, and my pockets aren't nearly deep enough :p. But then I've never had creaking at any corner, clicking on takeoff, or any other difficulties minus a small oil leak when first breaking in (which was fixed overnight by warranty). And I have been driving with a remap for most the cars life, I guess I forget what it was like stock...

[Wraith]

What car were you coming from Mizled? And are you sure it's the same engine in yours as is in mine? Sometimes I feel like we're talking about different cars... odd how preferences differ isn't it :p.

For instance, I don't think there's a diesel on Earth that sounds at good at idle as a stock sri-t =/, and found the stock brakes above average. Sucks about your warranty issues though :(. My only real issue with the car is that it's addictive to mod, and my pockets aren't nearly deep enough :p. But then I've never had creaking at any corner, clicking on takeoff, or any other difficulties minus a small oil leak when first breaking in (which was fixed overnight by warranty). And I have been driving with a remap for most the cars life, I guess I forget what it was like stock...

Go and have a listen to the new Mazda 6 diesel - sounds like...wait for it a petrol and that's both idling and on the run !!!

Mazda have paid special attention to noise accoustics and applied them well, AFAIK it's something Porsche also do with their turbo diesels :)

Agree with some of the above too, ie. stock Astra turbos have very good brakes and so far no probs with my 5 year old turbo vert, albeit with very, very low travelled km's. :)

[gman]

I try not to be mate... believe me

Weak Brakes
Creaking rear bushes (after being replaced under warranty)
Sounds like a diesel at idle
Flash not being up to scratch

And now I have a clicking sound when I take off, which I don't know if I can bothered getting looked at...

Mate hate to hear anyone being disappointed with any car they purchased...

The clicking could be the inner CV. Check to see if the CV boot has ripped. There have been a few that have had that issue, both AH and TS.

That said, I had my TS SRi-T from new in 2003 and still have it even though I have 2 other cars and live in another country to it now.. :)

All I can say is maybe you got a Monday morning/Friday afternoon built car...:o

[nigelh]

I would get the clicking noise checked out because that is the complaint that people have when the diff is starting to die and if you leave it it can destroy the whole gearbox. Take it to a transmission shop for a diagnosis because most dealerships wouldn't have a clue.

[Vectracious]

sorry a bit cheeky I know ... im averaging 6.3L/100km and struggling to get it to 6.4......I can only push the car so Hard !

OMG Pete - you've turned into one of those annoying diesel people obsessed with how good your fuel economy is. Wearing an anorak yet? :p

[cdti]

Lithium, as Ice said, pity you didn't try an Astra Diesel. I can't believe you can get awesome performance with good fuel economy. From what I understand, you fit a greenbox and get even more of both... There's definitely no problem with pull from low down (well, once you're over 1500rpm!).

There's also a bit of a size difference between a Colt and a Magna!

Now that you have the Magna, have a look at www.aussiemagna.com/forums (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums) and start modding that one too! You can add that you were referred by 89GSR too.

[lithium]

well, to be completely honest, one of the main criteria for the new car has been 'not an Opel' after i have experienced first hand the questionable engineering that has gone into my Barina. i'm not saying the diesels are necessarily like that too - lets just say once bitten, twice shy

i wanted reliability above everything else - driving entertainment was a secondary concern, after all i am keeping my Barina for punting around corners when the urge takes me :) i've replaced so many parts on it already, i figure, how many can there be left to fail on this engine? ;)

actually its funny you say that, i tried to join aussie magna a few days ago and they never emailed my confirmation - tried emailing the admin directly and got no reply!

[Wraith]

well, to be completely honest, one of the main criteria for the new car has been 'not an Opel' after i have experienced first hand the questionable engineering that has gone into my Barina. i'm not saying the diesels are necessarily like that too - lets just say once bitten, twice shy

i wanted reliability above everything else - driving entertainment was a secondary concern, after all i am keeping my Barina for punting around corners when the urge takes me :) i've replaced so many parts on it already, i figure, how many can there be left to fail on this engine? ;)

actually its funny you say that, i tried to join aussie magna a few days ago and they never emailed my confirmation - tried emailing the admin directly and got no reply!

Reliability above all else = definitely buy Japanese !!! :)

And with alot of Japanese vehicles you should get the driving entertainment as well :)

[CNBLU]

OMG Pete - you've turned into one of those annoying diesel people obsessed with how good your fuel economy is. Wearing an anorak yet? :p

well he cant exactly rave about how it redlines at 4,000rpm :D

[lithium]

Reliability above all else = definitely buy Japanese !!! :)

And with alot of Japanese vehicles you should get the driving entertainment as well :)

agreed! i try not to say that too loudly around here as everyone here loves their Euros ;) each have positive and negative points but reliability, engineering quality and longevity definitely goes to the Japs - style, handling and brand snobbery goes to the Euros :)

[gman]

Very much so...These days, Lexus is setting the benchmarks...

[Vectracious]

agreed! i try not to say that too loudly around here as everyone here loves their Euros ;) each have positive and negative points but reliability, engineering quality and longevity definitely goes to the Japs


The truth hurts ;)

[rjastra]

The usual JDPower survey

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/descending/page-#page-anchor

Interesting how some japanese brands didn't rate highly at all (ie Mazda, Suzuki)

[Calibrated]

The usual JDPower survey

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/descending/page-#page-anchor

Interesting how some japanese brands didn't rate highly at all (ie Mazda, Suzuki)
surprised with VW's rating :confused:

jaguar has definitely upped their game

[Wraith]

agreed! i try not to say that too loudly around here as everyone here loves their Euros ;) each have positive and negative points but reliability, engineering quality and longevity definitely goes to the Japs - style, handling and brand snobbery goes to the Euros :)

I love the Euros too (am European myself) my favourite dream cars are European and I plan on buying an expensive Euro brand in the near to medium term ahead...BUT truth be told and being objective facts are facts and I always tell it as it is, who cares what the one eyed Euro biased bridgade here or anywhere else think...in the end it's their loss ;)

Also style is subjective, so that dosn't get handed automatically to the Euros in my book, nor does handling, especially in the sub 100k or even sub 200k region, I think the Japanese can take that trophy too...

As for brand snobbery LOL that comes with the territory in owning a high dollar Euro...

[Wraith]

surprised with VW's rating :confused:

jaguar has definitely upped their game


I too am very surprised with the Jaguar rating there, those things once had a reliability rep worse than old Alfas...wonder how many or which models they're referencing to for each brand ??

I'm not surprised with the Suzuki rating, I've known 2 people with them over the years and both complained of annoying probs and querks - never heard of any major complaints from anyone I've known (including myself with vehicles I own and have owned) with a Toyota, Nissan, Mazda or Honda, yet only Toyota and Honda have a high rating there :confused:

[MatsHolden]

Modern Jags have come a long way.

[Wraith]

surprised with VW's rating :confused:

jaguar has definitely upped their game

VW Golfs have alot of probs - ex boss of mine had a MK4 just a normal variant, not the GTi got sick of it always having something going wrong and sold it for a TS Astra back a few years ago...

I think this is reflected in their resale as they drop quite significantly...

[Wraith]

Modern Jags have come a long way.

Or is it because they now predominantly use Ford running gear ???

Older models were Jag hardware through and through, I knew alot of blokes who had em through the eighties, seriously they spent more time in the repair shops than on the road !!!

[MatsHolden]

Or is it because they now predominantly use Ford running gear ???



That's it. Utilising Ford components has allowed Jag to shake the bad rep.

[lithium]

The usual JDPower survey

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/descending/page-#page-anchor

Interesting how some japanese brands didn't rate highly at all (ie Mazda, Suzuki)

ahh yes, out comes the inevitable JD power car reliability survey! let me pull out some OTHER surveys for you ;)

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=39115&IsPgd=0
http://www.caradvice.com.au/1436/top-10-reliable-brands/

the important thing to notice is the JD power survey surveys the US market, and shows how the cars perform in US conditions.

the surveys posted above survey the Oz market. as such they represent how well all these different types of cars fair in Australia, in our unique conditions (ie. hot, dry, massive potholes in the roads). look at the top 5 in every category and tell me who makes cars more suitable for our country!

before someone says 'so what', i'll mention what my mechanic told me. cars from certain european manufacturers, such as Opels and BMW, suffer many electrical problems when run in Oz. for example in my Barina: the wiring insulation on the cam sensor on the engine becomes brittle in our hot climate, and flakes away after 5-8 years, leaving the sensor damaged and useless. the ecus mounted on the engine fail after a similar period of time due to our 40 degree summers. the coil packs can't stand the heat here either and fail in a similar period of time. the lower suspension (compare the suspension travel of a Barina to a Yaris!) works well on smooth european roads but crashes and jumps through our B-grade and country roads. this is why a 10 year old Toyota will have less rattles and squeaks than a 10 year old Opel!

he says that when you go to Germany, the Opels and Beemers have far less problems there - simply because it is colder!

so part of the problem our country. however, other aspects of the engineering are inexcusable and can't be blamed on extreme temperatures and poorly maintained roads. i mean, gear linkages made of plastic bushings, wtf? :confused: slave cylinder inside the gearbox, double wtf???

anyway enough polluting OpelAus with my anti-Opel rantings ;) after all i am keeping my Barina indefinitely and it has never left me stranded yet, so how bad can it really be ;)

[rjastra]

ahh yes, out comes the inevitable JD power car reliability survey! let me pull out some OTHER surveys for you ;)

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=39115&IsPgd=0
http://www.caradvice.com.au/1436/top-10-reliable-brands/

the important thing to notice is the JD power survey surveys the US market, and shows how the cars perform in US conditions.

the surveys posted above survey the Oz market. as such they represent how well all these different types of cars fair in Australia, in our unique conditions (ie. hot, dry, massive potholes in the roads). look at the top 5 in every category and tell me who makes cars more suitable for our country!




Except... the USA has far more extreme weather conditions than Australia. Strange but true.
Scorchingly hot in the deserts and freezing cold winters in certain parts.

The USA is far tougher with regards warranty, lemon laws and emission warranties than Australia. Not to mention that Yanks are far more critical as consumers than we are.

[Calibrated]

australia's climate is not that extreme at all. thats just a marketing excuse for the bogans that havent been outside of their hometown to know any better.

[lithium]

Except... the USA has far more extreme weather conditions than Australia. Strange but true.
Scorchingly hot in the deserts and freezing cold winters in certain parts.

The USA is far tougher with regards warranty, lemon laws and emission warranties than Australia. Not to mention that Yanks are far more critical as consumers than we are.

i also realised i misquoted, the first survey is an Australian survey, the second survey are combined results from the US and UK.

however both show that in terms of reliability, the Japs are laying the smackdown. in fact of the top 8 manufacturers, 7 are Japanese, 1 is Korean (Suzuki is notably excluded as also shown by the JD powers survey). strange but true ;)

[lithium]

australia's climate is not that extreme at all. thats just a marketing excuse for the bogans that havent been outside of their hometown to know any better.

perhaps extreme isn't the right word - let me rephrase as 'substantially different to German climates' :)
that said i'm not convinced my mechanic is right as it's cold enough in the UK and their Opels are dying left right and centre too - it might just be the design

[Vectracious]

australia's climate is not that extreme at all. thats just a marketing excuse for the bogans that havent been outside of their hometown to know any better.

+1 million

they get 40 degree summers in Greece / Italy / France / Spain and they double that by going into the negatives in Winter - not like our mild Min of 8 degrees we get here in Oz (discounting the north)

America gets 40 degrees as well, and as for Africa it's even hotter.

So the "Australian climate is too harsh" excuse is a crock of shit.

[MatsHolden]

+1 million

they get 40 degree summers in Greece / Italy / France / Spain and they double that by going into the negatives in Winter - not like our mild Min of 8 degrees we get here in Oz (discounting the north)

America gets 40 degrees as well, and as for Africa it's even hotter.

So the "Australian climate is too harsh" excuse is a crock of shit.

Unless you live in Oodnadatta or Cloncurry. haha 50+ degrees thankyou. Give us some credit. :p

[Wraith]

ahh yes, out comes the inevitable JD power car reliability survey! let me pull out some OTHER surveys for you ;)

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=39115&IsPgd=0
http://www.caradvice.com.au/1436/top-10-reliable-brands/

the important thing to notice is the JD power survey surveys the US market, and shows how the cars perform in US conditions.

the surveys posted above survey the Oz market. as such they represent how well all these different types of cars fair in Australia, in our unique conditions (ie. hot, dry, massive potholes in the roads). look at the top 5 in every category and tell me who makes cars more suitable for our country!

before someone says 'so what', i'll mention what my mechanic told me. cars from certain european manufacturers, such as Opels and BMW, suffer many electrical problems when run in Oz. for example in my Barina: the wiring insulation on the cam sensor on the engine becomes brittle in our hot climate, and flakes away after 5-8 years, leaving the sensor damaged and useless. the ecus mounted on the engine fail after a similar period of time due to our 40 degree summers. the coil packs can't stand the heat here either and fail in a similar period of time. the lower suspension (compare the suspension travel of a Barina to a Yaris!) works well on smooth european roads but crashes and jumps through our B-grade and country roads. this is why a 10 year old Toyota will have less rattles and squeaks than a 10 year old Opel!

he says that when you go to Germany, the Opels and Beemers have far less problems there - simply because it is colder!

so part of the problem our country. however, other aspects of the engineering are inexcusable and can't be blamed on extreme temperatures and poorly maintained roads. i mean, gear linkages made of plastic bushings, wtf? :confused: slave cylinder inside the gearbox, double wtf???

anyway enough polluting OpelAus with my anti-Opel rantings ;) after all i am keeping my Barina indefinitely and it has never left me stranded yet, so how bad can it really be ;)

Well there you go...

Vindicates exactly what I said about Japanese brands and the Golf in one of my previous posts... :)

[Wraith]

i also realised i misquoted, the first survey is an Australian survey, the second survey are combined results from the US and UK.

however both show that in terms of reliability, the Japs are laying the smackdown. in fact of the top 8 manufacturers, 7 are Japanese, 1 is Korean (Suzuki is notably excluded as also shown by the JD powers survey). strange but true ;)

And again as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, Suzuki from my experience is indeed the stand out of the main Japanese manufacturers in terms of probs...

These surveys pretty accurately mirror what I've personally experience myself and from listening to other people, especially a cousin of mine who's been a grease monkey for over 25 years now...

I am more confident than ever now to purchase another new Mazda :cornut:

Had a new V6 Tribute now for 2 and 1/2 years without even a single little prob so far :)

Have another good friend with an Astina ('92 model) still going strong !!!

[Calibrated]

i find it strange how our BMW's, VW's and Opel's, that are built in SA. work perfectly fine there. yet somehow have issues when they arrive here. cant blame the climate. so either aus gets sent the defected ones haha, or the service centre's are doing something horribly wrong on this side.

i'm willing to bet on it being the latter.

[Wraith]

i find it strange how our BMW's, VW's and Opel's, that are built in SA. work perfectly fine there. yet somehow have issues when they arrive here. cant blame the climate. so either aus gets sent the defected ones haha, or the service centre's are doing something horribly wrong on this side.

i'm willing to bet on it being the latter.

Who knows exactly ???

I can tell you we had a current model 320i for about 8 months Calibrated, new company car for the missus back in mid 2006 to early 2007...my o/a assessment of that car = total POS !

Why anyone would spend well over 50k on that instead of a top of the range something else, like a typical Japanese car is beyong me, unless they just want to show off they have a Beemer :rolleyes:

Not saying all Beemers are crap, but certainly the base model lower spec ones are a total waste of money IMHO...

[MatsHolden]

unless they just want to show off they have a Beemer :rolleyes:

...

That's exactly why.

[hazrd]

i'm picking up a Magna Sports on friday...163Kw and 317Nm in a 1480kg shell, and it pulls hard right off idle. it's the goods :eek:


come into this one a bit late lol

all i can say is, u made a pretty good choice, not being biast (i own a TJ Sports), but fk me these things haul ass :D

[Wraith]

come into this one a bit late lol

all i can say is, u made a pretty good choice, not being biast (i own a TJ Sports), but fk me these things haul ass :D

Supercharged = zero lag instant torque :cornut:

[lithium]

come into this one a bit late lol

all i can say is, u made a pretty good choice, not being biast (i own a TJ Sports), but fk me these things haul ass :D

cheers, i hope so :) ours is a TJ too, we picked it up today and my fiancee took it home this morning so i haven't had a chance to really drive it yet, going to go and do that tonight. can't wait :cornut:

[Calibrated]

Who knows exactly ???

I can tell you we had a current model 320i for about 8 months Calibrated, new company car for the missus back in mid 2006 to early 2007...my o/a assessment of that car = total POS !

Why anyone would spend well over 50k on that instead of a top of the range something else, like a typical Japanese car is beyong me, unless they just want to show off they have a Beemer :rolleyes:

Not saying all Beemers are crap, but certainly the base model lower spec ones are a total waste of money IMHO...
cant speak for the E90 (why bmw used a 4cyl is beyond me), but we had a brand new e46 320i early '06 model (2.2 6cyl manual with sports package) which was given back to the company when my parents moved here last year. we never had a single days problem, and that went for every bmw, vw, audi, opel in the company fleet, and friends and family. sure there was the occassional glitch, but nowhere near the amount of problems people are complaining about here. unless all the good ones somehow end up in cape town.

as for the paying extra to be in a BMW. i would. not because its a BMW. but because Euro's in general just have a superior feel to them. before i bought the audi. i looked at mazda 3's and 6's, commodores (was never going to be an option anyway), new lancers, etc. all of them, the moment i sat down, i wanted to get out.

[lithium]

cant speak for the E90 (why bmw used a 4cyl is beyond me), but we had a brand new e46 320i early '06 model (2.2 6cyl manual with sports package) which was given back to the company when my parents moved here last year. we never had a single days problem, and that went for every bmw, vw, audi, opel in the company fleet, and friends and family. sure there was the occassional glitch, but nowhere near the amount of problems people are complaining about here. unless all the good ones somehow end up in cape town.

how long did your family hold onto them Calibrated? it's possible that the problems start to arrive as the car ages

[hazrd]

cheers, i hope so :) ours is a TJ too, we picked it up today and my fiancee took it home this morning so i haven't had a chance to really drive it yet, going to go and do that tonight. can't wait :cornut:

trust me you will love it ;)
i mean a magna isnt much, but we've had ours since 30,000km (now has 116k) and have only had to service it !!

[gmonkey]

isnt the new shape colt due for release this year?? i think it looks sweeett!

http://images.google.com.au/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/2009_mitsubishi_colt.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFpl7EtLFJl_RBuIugMvu2aZdS25Q

or was this a UK story i read?? just noticed the plates :p

[MitchSRi]

i'm picking up a Magna Sports on friday...163Kw and 317Nm in a 1480kg shell, and it pulls hard right off idle. it's the goods :eek: I know of someone who ones a supercharged Ralliart Magna.

Having been for a ride in it before I can tell you one thing. Good god do they go quick with forced induction.

This car was absolutely mental.

[tomtom]

I know of someone who ones a supercharged Ralliart Magna.

Having been for a ride in it before I can tell you one thing. Good god do they go quick with forced induction.

This car was absolutely mental.

I think this is the same guy my mate's know. Whats his name?

[rjastra]

isnt the new shape colt due for release this year?? i think it looks sweeett!

http://images.google.com.au/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/2009_mitsubishi_colt.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFpl7EtLFJl_RBuIugMvu2aZdS25Q

or was this a UK story i read?? just noticed the plates :p

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200810/2009-mitsubishi-colt-2_460x0w.jpg

Thats the euro Colt. Hideous - lol

[gmonkey]

i like it :p lol

[Keep'emRunning]

looks like a puffer fish..

[hazrd]

looks like a puffer fish..


http://members.iinet.net.au/~hazrd/newcolt.jpg

[gmonkey]

its got VW polo headlights sorta and shaped like a bit like a yaris :p i like it lol compared to the shape we got, which was just a more unpractical jazz (till they released the ralliart one that is)

http://images.google.com.au/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.dancewithshadows.com/autoindia/images/vw-polo-picture.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEa-8HdyWaQA8Lsdd4d1RPBlqnoHA

[USC]

All those new small cars look retarded! I would never be seen in one..no thanks...no small putter fish for me.

[Vectracious]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~hazrd/newcolt.jpg


A bit of inspiration from Sniffpetrol I see :p

[hazrd]

A bit of inspiration from Sniffpetrol I see :p

well i did fit an FPR on thursday, and change the fuel filter yesterday.... :crazy: