Accellerator Lag

[leonw]

I own a 2001 Astra CD manual. While the car has had no problems since new, it has always annoyed me that the performance is quite diminished by the poor accellerator lag.

The City model I test drove prior to purchase went like a rocket compared to the CD. I am told it has someting to do with an electronic accellerator linkage.

Can this be fixed or do I just live with it?

I like the car, it's just a bit of a dog performance wise.

Thanks

:roll: leon

[Mitch]

I think you'll just have to live with it.

[Anonymous]

the CD is an all show no go bro :P something you and i must live with hehehe ah well thems the brakes... umm well the accelerator in this case :screwy:

[Shazza]

Dude, my brother has a 2001 Model Astra CD Auto and he has the same thing, whereas I've got a 2002 Astra CD, and it goes like a rocket compared to his one. His also has this accellerator lag. I was going to take it to a holden dealer soon to have it investigated.

You shouldnt have to live with it, considering that they're the same car, same engine... one shouldnt run like a dog! Let me know if u do something about it~

[blackSRi]

I found de-restricting the airbox helped deal with this - it helped the engine get the air when it needed it instead of 'suffocating' when accelerator is hit hard.

[Anonymous]

hey leon i was just talking to my dads friend down at the holden dealer and he said if it is a model before 2002 then there is nothing HOLDEN can do (mine is a 2004 model :P) but if it is before 02 then what blackSRi said is true you can do that and it should fix the problem as for me i am taking my astra down there on monday to get it checked out :P

[freaktown]

is your throttle body opeing up all the way when your accelerator is down?

its a common problem!

youd be surprised how many cars throttle dosnt open all the way!

If your going to modify your throttle yourself make sure it dosnt open past full (set it a bit before) or it may stick open and you dont want that to happen :)

[EGG80X]

try adjusting/tighten the throttle cable

[R3N]

I have an 02 astra cd sedan and i never really had this problem... maybe I don't have it? The astra was buily July 01 thouh... maybe I just didnt realise? Is it a common problem? Or maybe has something to do with T/C?

[InsaneAsylum]

ummm have the astra's with accelerator lag got an electronic throttle???


shazza, is yours a cable throttle and your brothers electronic??



this could well be the problem. i drove an astra sri, ba xr8, and hyundai getz, all have electronic throttle and felt different to my vectra. i know the ba xr8 has shitloads more power and would flog my cars ass, the sri is arguable and the getz fuked, but what i felt was that the acceleration is not proportional to how far you put your foot down, and that's due to emisions laws.... you can request that the ecu make your car go faster by pressing the accelerator, however at the end of the day it's up to the ecu to decide how quickly it will open your throttle and supply enough fuel for the right amount of air

[Mitch]

Actually, now that i think about it. I took mine in for a similar reason and they replaced the throttle body as the one on it wasn't opening properly.

[freaktown]

^^^^^^^^^^^


Bingo!

[Shazza]

Hey InsaneAsylum, I really wouldn't know whether mine is cable or electronic or vise versa? Is there any easy way to check? Either way we're either going to try de-restricting the air box (does this have any ramifications, how can it be done?) or take it to a holden dealer.

I suspect the first thing to do is take it to Holden.

[InsaneAsylum]

pop the hood... is there a cable running from the firewall to the throttle body. around the throttle body, you can see the cable come out of the black protector. it looks exactly like the handbrake cable on a pushbike but connects to the throttle body.

the electronic throttle body doesn't have this.

[leonw]

Thanks for the response everyone. This forum is excellent. Maybe I need a cluey mechanic rather than a Holden dealer. I probably need to be careful however as the car is almost out of it's 3 year factory warranty but is still covered for another 3 years under the dealer's limited warranty deal. :shock:

[OzStick]

Hey there leonw, have you had this looked at any further?

The reason i ask is that I just bought a 2001 Barina SRi which suffers from a similar problem so I was wondering if you now know what causes it.

The issue on my car is a little different, as it only occurs intermittently. The best way to describe it is as throttle lag, in that you hit the pedal and about 1/10th of a second later the engine repsonds! This is a real pain in the butt, especially from standstill and also because it doesn't do it all the time.

When it does start happening the lag also continues once I take my foot off the pedal, so when I go to change gears the revs 'flare' by a few 100 rpms as if i never took my foot off the accelerator in the first place.

I bought the car from a Holden dealer and will be taking it back once I work up a shopping list of issues, so it will be a huge help if I can explain the problem to them a little better than "throttle lag"!!

If anyone has any ideas I'd be most appreciative.

[woody]

Got the same issue with My SRI 2.2 - i've always put it down to the "fly by wire" accelerator but if anyone has a fix i'd love to hear it....

Would be nice to get off the line a little quicker...

Woody

[InsaneAsylum]

it's definetly the fly by wire that does this. i've driven a few fly by wire cars that exhibit these properties

[OzStick]

Got the same issue with My SRI 2.2 - i've always put it down to the "fly by wire" accelerator but if anyone has a fix i'd love to hear it....

Would be nice to get off the line a little quicker...

Woody

Have you taken it to Holden so they can fix it? I get the impression reading the other posts that it's just 'one of theose things', however from a consumer perspective that is simply not good enough!

Someone else mentioned that modding the air intake can help, so if Holden say they can't fix it then I'll just chop up the airbox as suggested throughout the forums. If they rap me over the knuckles at the next service I'll simply inform them that it was the only way to fix a problem that they couldn't...............

[woody]

Well it still makes it's advertised low 9 sec 0-100 so i can't really complain - it's just that you know it could do way better if it wasn't for the Fly by wire.

I've already added the obligatory K&N Panel filter so air flow has been increased considerabley.

[NUTTTR]

the 2.2L does a lot better than low 9 0-100's.... more like 8.5 lower if you are really good and have a few minor mods......

Anyway, the fly by wire actually ALWAYS does this, there's nothing you can do to stop it... Some car's it's worse, some cars it's better... I've never had a problem changing gears, because i let off the accellerator just a TOUCH earlier than i would with a throttle cable... mine's pretty quick off the line, so maybe there's a problem with yours? Mine rev's nearly instantly, but at idle, if you QUICKLY bash the accellerator to teh floor then lift right off quickly, it IS slow to respond... but regular driving never had a problem! (2.2 2002 sri!)
Aaron

[Dregger]

nutttr....you gotta catch up to me in my 1.8 :)

last 0-100 i did was 8.33 .... and i should have done better, as tyres slipped a bit.

bear in mind i have no TC.

[NUTTTR]

i have no TC either :P it's MUCH MUCH faster with it off on a smooth road, it's bloody brilliant taking off....... I know i can beat 1.8's hands down...... unless you've modded it in some way?
My 0-100 was almost as quick as an "adventura" v8, whatever, big commy wagons with 4wd.... lol.... They are 7.9 or 8.2 or something......
I'll race ya Dregger..... come to Sydney! :P

[InsaneAsylum]

i will run you all with my older style cable throttle motor :mrgreen:

[woody]

Erm did i mention i'm in an auto..... i've not tested the the 9 sec 0-100 theory any further than by counting in my head but it seems pretty much right.. might i just say i would NEVER have bought an auto if it wsn't for the fact my wife (who now has her OWN auto barina) didn't want to drive a manual and at the time we couldn't afford two cars.

i'm pretty sure i could do better in a manual, especially if i turned off the TC.. and modded it.. and did an ECU remap.. and etc etc etc..

[NUTTTR]

OHHHHH
Yeah the auto is hella bad with reaction time....... Yeah, they DO have crap accelleration......
Sorry, i have driven one as a courtesy car and it was bad....... esp when you are on the brake as it has to drop into drive first from neutral....
Mines only stock with t/c mods, rear box, air intake...... i want a map, dblias manifold, lowering and cams :D lol..... i wish.....
Aaron

[extralarge]

there is literature to say that post 01 astra models had electronic throttle control. which is $500 to upgrade from a holden dealer. electronic control gives quicker and more proportioned response.

98-late 00 models come with the cable throttle which is laggy. i do recon that the cable should be adjusted every now and then.

the electronic control have the astra more power too - 85 --> 90 kw and 92kw with premium.

worth the money if you have the old throttle system.

it may be redbook.com.au that you can find these details.
used car value then specs.

[woody]

Aaron,

I wish i could trade mine in for a manual and mod it to hell and back but unfortunately my wife has me on a budget - something about buying a house - at least i think thats what she said???

:lol:

[NUTTTR]

TBH i'm pretty sure the electric throttle is ALOT more laggy than any other car i've ever driven (in auto form)........
Woody, it's simple..... sell your car now, by a shitter, save for a year, get a deposit, buy a house, redraw after a year and buy the car you want from it :D
hahahaha, p.s. tell the wife and she'd kill you!

[InsaneAsylum]

yeah i'll back that, electronic throttle is more laggy.

it gives a linear acceleration line... imagine the graph of y=x that's how the electronic throttle seems to work.

the cable throttle seems to resemble the graph of y=e^x :mrgreen:

[NUTTTR]

y=e^x

That's more fun tho!!!

[Anonymous]

hahaha well i dunno never driven a cable throttle system, but i have driven both manual and auto with the electronic fly-by-wire system, which is what my CD has, they are sort of laggy NUTTTR i know what you mean but when you have the power button down you will notice the car does not lag when going from neutral to drive :) i;m not sure but i dont even think it drops back to neutral with the power button on, i'm gonna have to check this out hehehe

[InsaneAsylum]

what happens if you lift the clutch without giving gas? does the car stall, or anticipate the stall and pump some gas in using the electronic throttle?

[NUTTTR]

Insane - it uses an idle air valve, which will keep the car idling, within reason, like if you are in first and let the clutch out slowly you can move off pretty fast (up to idle) without touching the throttle.... a lot of cars have that, not just ones with electronic throttle, it's a special motor that controls the idle electronically :)
Aaron

[InsaneAsylum]

haha yeah don't remind me... it's no 1 on the all time vectra fuxup list!!

interesting as i thought that electronic throttle took away the need for an IAC valve :?

does anyone know if the fly by wire cars run closed loop 100% of the time?

[NUTTTR]

nfi to be honest, i was pretty sure they all run an iac valve anyway!!! lol...... however, not sure....

[woody]

Nutttr...

Did the S**tbox thing for a year to save for our wedding - can't go back to that again!! No way. It almost killed me!! (well ok it just annoyed me but i'm prone to exaggeration!)

[OzStick]

So are we any closer to knowing if this issue is something that can/should be resolved under warranty??? I really do need to know what others have been able to do about it.

[InsaneAsylum]

it's a feature, not a problem :mrgreen:

[OzStick]

it's a feature, not a problem

Well, Insane, it's an undocumented feature which in IT terms (which I am rather familiar with) means that it's a bug. So if it's a bug, there should be a fix for it, shouldn't there!?!?!

[Mitch]

it's a feature, not a problem

Well, Insane, it's an undocumented feature which in IT terms (which I am rather familiar with) means that it's a bug. So if it's a bug, there should be a fix for it, shouldn't there!?!?!

There's no fix for the delay caused by fly-by-wire. You just have to get used to driving it. When I first drove my Astra I thought the same thing but once you get used it then you dont even notice it really.

[OzStick]

There's no fix for the delay caused by fly-by-wire. You just have to get used to driving it. When I first drove my Astra I thought the same thing but once you get used it then you dont even notice it really.

I understand that Mitch as I've driven a few Barinas and Astras with the 1.8l engine and they all have a very slight lag.

The problem my car has is that it only seems to do it once the engine approaches normal operating temperature and the lag is very pronounced - much longer than any other Opel I've driven!!

[Mitch]

I'd check to see if the throttle body is opening up all the way. I had mine replaced but it only improved it for a little bit then it went back to normal.

[InsaneAsylum]

OzStick been there done that....

you can't charge customers for a patch or fix to a bug, but you can sure as hell release a new and improved version, available for purchase in stores as a "upgrade" package for a fraction of the cost :mrgreen:

[leonw]

So are we any closer to knowing if this issue is something that can/should be resolved under warranty??? I really do need to know what others have been able to do about it.

I just had mine serviced at the dealers who (apart from charging a motza for doing an oil change) told me it was an unfortunate problem that was not fixable.

I'm surprised there is no after market product that can fix it though. Possibly it annoys me more than most as my other car is an MX5 so the gear changing comparison between the two cars is very different. :shock:

[woody]

All... Use BP Ultimate...... I used to use Shell optimax and thought it was great - then my local shell station ran out of Optiomax (in fact most of em did) so i begrudgingly stuck 1/2 a tank of BP Ultimate in.. say goodbye to 60% of the lag!!!!

The difference was (almost) immediate, car picks up WAY better at lower revs...
The is still a lag (you're gonna get it regardless) but changing the fuel has certainly helped.

So before changing your throttle body, try changing your fuel!

Tim

[Assada]

The lag still annoys me till this day. I beleive its the way the elec. throttle has been programmed.

Its not apparant in the Vectra because its an auto - actually its better than a cable throttle becos its a lot more responsive and drops gears down quicker, but in a manual the revs flare as u push the clutch in and get a big jerk especially from 1st to 2nd (just like if you dont know how to drive manual properly).

Ive tried different fuels etc and even octane boost but it just hides the problem, not solve it. I have heard an ECU remap will sort this problem out - there are a few testomonials that seem to talk about the lag and say its gone after the remap: http://www.powerchipgroup.com/Datasheets/1/Hol0157.pdf

I'm not too keen on shelling out the $800 or so for the remap - but if it will solve the problem and give me more power & economy then I may look at it.

[oneightoo]

Its not apparant in the Vectra because its an auto - actually its better than a cable throttle becos its a lot more responsive and drops gears down quicker, but in a manual the revs flare as u push the clutch in and get a big jerk especially from 1st to 2nd.

really?? i never had that problem with my manual sri.. mine was smooth.. only complaint i ever had was that it was a bit stiff thru the gates from 1st to 2nd..

[xplosv57]

My 01 Astra CD has terrible accelerator lag because of the electronic throttle, its shocking, especially when overtaking, just goes nowhere when i want it to!! Could easily cause an accident if i get stuck in a bad situation and need to get out of it quickly!!

[xplosv57]

only complaint i ever had was that it was a bit stiff thru the gates from 1st to 2nd..

I also have this problem too, sometimes find it really hard to get into first and second, also reverse, told holden at the last service but they couldn't find anything!

[WLD-18L]

these zippy 1.8L engines shouldnt lag at all. should take off like a bullet.... my 01 cd sedan manual leaps off the mark and chirps through the gears.

get it checked out man.

[Alfonzo]

The lag still annoys me till this day. I beleive its the way the elec. throttle has been programmed.

Its not apparant in the Vectra because its an auto - actually its better than a cable throttle becos its a lot more responsive and drops gears down quicker, but in a manual the revs flare as u push the clutch in and get a big jerk especially from 1st to 2nd (just like if you dont know how to drive manual properly). Damn it, lucky. My Vectra is manual and it ****s me to tears. Half the time I can't heel-toe properly, which is frustrating because I know I can do it without issue.

Sodding drive-by-wire, I hope to God the next car I've got lined up is an old fashioned cable throttle...

[InsaneAsylum]

i own a cable throttle manual vectra and i drove a manual atra sri with electronic throttle... huge difference in response. not saying my vectra is faster than an astra sri, but it just feels like it. with fly by wire, the ecu is designed to accelerate smoothly, even if you are trying to stomp it. it's just funtioning as it's designed

second of all, i re-aligned my gear linkages and changed the gearbox oil for fully synthetic stuff and my gearchanges are smooth as a baby's ass. it's not a hard job to do

[Shaun]

could be a TPS (Throttle Postion Sensor) take it to holden and have them check it

[Wattie]

[QUOTE=Assada;147298] but in a manual the revs flare as u push the clutch in and get a big jerk especially from 1st to 2nd (just like if you dont know how to drive manual properly).

QUOTE]

learn how to drive with it then, thats easy done.

[xplosv57]

[quote=Assada;147298] but in a manual the revs flare as u push the clutch in and get a big jerk especially from 1st to 2nd (just like if you dont know how to drive manual properly).

QUOTE]

learn how to drive with it then, thats easy done.

LOL yeah ive gotten used to it now, when i test drove it when i bought mine, i kept chirping it into gears, i mustv'e looked like an idiot but im glad its the car!

[oneightoo]

I also have this problem too, sometimes find it really hard to get into first and second, also reverse, told holden at the last service but they couldn't find anything!

hard to get into first??? like when you start driving?? you down shift to first do you?? cos that would be stiff then..

[Alfonzo]

I've found on occasion first and second are really sticky too. I don't downshift to first, only on a complete stop - but yeah, some mornings at slow speed you've really got to put some effort into moving into gear.

Ugh. The Dog and Lemon guide reckons these gearboxes get really clunky just before they die, I certainly hope I'm not nearing the end of something here...

[xplosv57]

hard to get into first??? like when you start driving?? you down shift to first do you?? cos that would be stiff then..

Nah hard to get into 1st when i start driving, hard to get into second when downshifting!! Im with Alfonzo, i hope my gearbox isn't on its way!!!

[NUTTTR]

Nah hard to get into 1st when i start driving, hard to get into second when downshifting!! Im with Alfonzo, i hope my gearbox isn't on its way!!!

Yup the 2.2L box'es are known to do this. It happens worse when it's cold. Not sure if they've put different oil in here than o/s, as mine CAN be bad sometimes. It's been MUCH better since it hit about 20,000k's. Giving the accelerator a blip with the clutch to the floor makes a huge difference, even when at idle to getting it into first. The people who said they got 'tight' and 'clunky' before dying don't have any idea. Any gearbox which wears badly gets tight and clunky. The 2.2L gearboxes don't fail often at all (not compared to 1.8's!), so i wouldn't worry. (unless it's auto, they are known to be a bit worse off!)

[Alfonzo]

That's certainly reassuring then. I do tend to 'blip' the accelerator on a downshift most of the time, but it's typically when approaching a corner, but never bothered with it when shifting from from second to first (as I'm generally at a standstill anyhow).