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View Full Version : maximum length for a LAN cable...?



PO15KA
17th August 2009, 08:39 PM
what is the maximum allowed length of a LAN cable connection? for eg, router and the PC are 10 meters away from each other, will the signal travel without any interferance?

poita
17th August 2009, 08:40 PM
about 100m i think it is

PO15KA
17th August 2009, 08:59 PM
about 100m i think it is

thank you so much :)

reason im asking is that wireless is quite a hit and miss in my dwelling :(
preparing to network the PC room with the lounge room, the master bedroom and the kids bedroom.

i will run the cabling through the walls and over the ceiling inside the roof.

1. during summer the roof gets quite hot as we know it, will this affect the cabling in any way?
2. i need to run 3 separate cables from the PC room to each of the other rooms, right?
3. a one 3 outlet wall plate and 3 one outlets are required, right? (3 outlet wallplate in PC room and the other one outlet wallplates in the other rooms)
4. what type of router will i need, im looking for a fast connection.

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 09:01 PM
Depends on whether or not it's CAT5e or CAT6 cable..

CAT6 is better as the pairs are twisted = Lower loss...

You wouldn't wanna go more than 100m as Poita said, but 10m is a short run in any book...;)

AzzA

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 09:03 PM
most ADSL modems these days have 4 port hub's built-in..

dieselhead
17th August 2009, 09:39 PM
Forget LAN cable, get yourself some EoP (Ethernet over power line) adapters. You need one for the modem's uplink (port 1 for most of them) and one for each device you want to connect to this weird wired network. It will cost you about $130 for a pair of 85 Mbps adapters. If you want to go 200 Mbps it will cost you much more, but unless you want to stream HD content you'll be just fine with the slower ones.
Good thing is that you just plug them in and it works-no wires to pull, now holes to make in walls and no extra cables to worry about.

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 09:43 PM
Forget LAN cable, get yourself some EoP (Ethernet over power line) adapters. You need one for the modem's uplink (port 1 for most of them) and one for each device you want to connect to this weird wired network. It will cost you about $130 for a pair of 85 Mbps adapters. If you want to go 200 Mbps it will cost you much more, but unless you want to stream HD content you'll be just fine with the slower ones.
Good thing is that you just plug them in and it works-no wires to pull, now holes to make in walls and no extra cables to worry about.

Only prob with those is that if the circuits go to different breakers, they don't work...:(

Vectracious
17th August 2009, 09:47 PM
also if your budget can extend and you go down the CAT cable route get a switch rather than a router... but only if you can afford the extra $$.

poita
17th August 2009, 09:51 PM
yer as said PoE is fantastic if on the same circuit, but if on a different circuit not so great.

ethernet cable most cost effect way

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 09:52 PM
also if your budget can extend and you go down the CAT cable route get a switch rather than a router... but only if you can afford the extra $$.

I disagree..

read here as to why http://compnetworking.about.com/od/homenetworkhardware/f/routervsswitch.htm

Vectracious
17th August 2009, 10:05 PM
I disagree..

read here as to why http://compnetworking.about.com/od/homenetworkhardware/f/routervsswitch.htm

was looking at it from a packet collision perspective.

Yeah, prob overkill for 3 computers on a home network butt maybe he already has the modem. Cheaper to buy a small switch than a new 4 port modem.

Asus 8 port 10/100 switch for $22 from MSY - and plenty of ports for upgrading later on.

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 10:09 PM
True, but i presume that his already Wireless modem would have a 4 port switch/rooter built-in???

What type of Modem do you currently have there PO15KA???



ps. MSY is the shit huh, if you don't mind queuing!!!

Vectracious
17th August 2009, 10:16 PM
ps. MSY is the shit huh, if you don't mind queuing!!!

10:30 on a non school holiday weekday is best :D otherwise its a write off. :D

MatsHolden
17th August 2009, 10:50 PM
Geez, now I know how my girlfriend feels when i'm talking about anything car related...

You nerds! :eek::cornut:

Better go check if my asus 8 port is working effectively with my EoP adapter which is connected to my CAT6 cable... or was that the CAT5e2000?

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 10:53 PM
Geez, now I know how my girlfriend feels when i'm talking about anything car related...

You nerds! :eek::cornut:

Better go check if my asus 8 port is working effectively with my EoP adapter which is connected to my CAT6 cable... or was that the CAT5e2000?


Hey, it aint called "Nerds unite" for no reason...!!! :cornut:

AfterBurner
17th August 2009, 10:55 PM
brb, just gotta clean my 'coke bottles'... & the bandaid in the middle is starting to unravel too... :p

Vectracious
17th August 2009, 11:26 PM
Geez, now I know how my girlfriend feels when i'm talking about anything car related...

You nerds! :eek::cornut:

Better go check if my asus 8 port is working effectively with my EoP adapter which is connected to my CAT6 cable... or was that the CAT5e2000?

you have a Mac

go away.

;)

MatsHolden
17th August 2009, 11:48 PM
you have a Mac

go away.

;)

That's another thing i don't get... the whole PC people being anti Mac? Must be a nerd thing too?

auzvectra
18th August 2009, 06:08 AM
already clarified, but thought i'd confirm the 100m on the cat5e patch lead ;).
yes cat 6 is better, but cost vs extra distance, u'd wanna move ur pc a few m's :p.
prob is but, i only really get 50m leads, well thats all we have at work neway ;). otherwise just make ur own.

PO15KA
18th August 2009, 05:16 PM
True, but i presume that his already Wireless modem would have a 4 port switch/rooter built-in???

What type of Modem do you currently have there PO15KA???



ps. MSY is the shit huh, if you don't mind queuing!!!


Thanks to all for contributing, thank you.

i had a wireless modem a while ago but only for testing purposes and as you can figure it out it didnt work :o(
i will definiately visit MSY and get myself a good quality switch :o)

as for EoP unfortunately this is also out of question due to the master bedroom being on a separate power circuit :o)

seriously, thank you all... i will update you how everything has worked out :o)

PO15KA
21st September 2009, 07:27 AM
a friend just dropped off some LAN cable at my place, its not CAT6 like i wanted. Instead its CAT5e.
Should i wait untill i can get some CAT6 or just go ahead and install with this type of cable?

(its for home network - nothing overly demanding)

:(

AfterBurner
21st September 2009, 07:46 AM
She'll be right mate...

That's what we use here at work, CAT6 only for extra long runs or intefernce scenarios.

AzzA

PO15KA
21st September 2009, 07:48 AM
She'll be right mate...

That's what we use here at work, CAT6 only for extra long runs or intefernce scenarios.

AzzA


cheers mate... ;)

poita
21st September 2009, 07:14 PM
CAT5e will be fine mate

carab
21st September 2009, 08:44 PM
used cat5e for most of the house, never had a prob

One thing to look out for is power cables as they will cuase interference. Either avoid them by about 30cm or so, some say more or less, or hit them at 90 degrees crossing.

Also prob best to buy a box of the stuff, cheaper and the cable is more rigid. Dont buy dick smith 30 meter cables and cut the ends as they are actually stranded copper wires, not solid cores so you might get more loss.

have fun crawling in roof :cool:

shoey85
21st September 2009, 09:38 PM
just fyi, i have a network cat5 cable for my comp /2 work running over 100m its about 130 so it can b done :P

oh and MAC FTW!!!

Calibrated
22nd September 2009, 07:53 AM
just fyi, i have a network cat5 cable for my comp /2 work running over 100m its about 130 so it can b done :P

oh and MAC FTW!!!
100m doesnt mean it stops working after 100m. it means that after 100m its signal strength will drop dramatically. i'd say you would be dropping alot of packets over that distance.

InsaneAsylum
22nd September 2009, 07:59 AM
it's 100 metres between repeaters (switches, routers, hubs etc) so you can have a cable run of 200 metres so long as there's some sort of repeater half way. also with wireless networking so cheap these days, it would probably be easier to set up a wireless lan rather than stuffing around with long cable runs.

InsaneAsylum
22nd September 2009, 08:01 AM
oh and MAC FTW!!!

for the record, MACs are no better or worse than PC's. it's just a perception MAC users have to make themselves feel superior to PC users because they are a minority.

poita
22nd September 2009, 08:02 AM
for the record, MACs are no better or worse than PC's. it's just a perception MAC users have to make themselves feel superior to PC users because they are a minority.

kinda like Opel owners........... :p ;)

McTwistie
22nd September 2009, 08:10 AM
Cat 6 is required for high level IPV6 (instead of IPv4) systems. Basically it is required for gigabit and multi-gigabit connections.

The official maximum cable length for Cat5e is 160m but you had better have the ultimate quality cable - 100m without a repeater is normal.

And any cable compared to wireless is Bliss.

Cheers

shoey85
22nd September 2009, 07:19 PM
for the record, MACs are no better or worse than PC's. it's just a perception MAC users have to make themselves feel superior to PC users because they are a minority.

lol i actually have both was just having a laugh ;p

PO15KA
14th October 2009, 05:24 PM
OK, it's been a while but had to attend to other things around the house. got the Cat5e cables laid couple of weeks ago, have the necessary wall plates installed and so on.

now i have a bit of a dillema... how to patch\connest the cat5e cable to the "keystone jacks"

i have couple of pictures can you advise me which is correct way to do it.

first of all i was advised to follow the B pattern but i am a bit confused as some of my friends also stated i have to put the wires on the "outside" of the keystone jack and others advise me to put the wires from the inside of the keystone jack...

could you review the pictures attached and tell me which is the correct way?

this is the keystone jacks type i have, do i follow the A or the B ?
http://images41.fotosik.pl/210/c807a18a7681226bm.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/c807a18a7681226b.html)

this is the cat5e cable i have
http://images49.fotosik.pl/214/f6a0988c93e97ae6m.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/f6a0988c93e97ae6.html)

followed the B pattern from "inside"
http://images47.fotosik.pl/213/0a865d4a885468c0m.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0a865d4a885468c0.html)

followed the B pattern from "outside"
http://images44.fotosik.pl/214/7230999f458b137em.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/7230999f458b137e.html)

waiting for your advice.

PS> maybe i should follow the A pattern? but someone said its not used in domestic applications...

McTwistie
14th October 2009, 05:36 PM
Here is an exact how-to for Wall-Plates

http://www.handymanhowto.com/2009/01/19/how-to-install-an-ethernet-jack-for-a-home-network/

the "Punch Down" tool is called something else around here, but for the life of me I can't remember the right name - though I think it's the same as an old american telco ?

Cheers

poita
14th October 2009, 05:37 PM
Kudrow, where are you?

he will know off the top of his head

InsaneAsylum
14th October 2009, 05:52 PM
i was taught but a qualified sparky to have the cable on the inside and the wires pointing outward. then run a punchdown tool over it and it'll snip the ends off.

it doesn't matter if you use EIA/TIA568 A or B as long as you are consistent throughout the whole installation. ie. don't do A on one end and B on the other, otherwise it will result in a crossover.

PO15KA
14th October 2009, 05:58 PM
Here is an exact how-to for Wall-Plates

http://www.handymanhowto.com/2009/01/19/how-to-install-an-ethernet-jack-for-a-home-network/

the "Punch Down" tool is called something else around here, but for the life of me I can't remember the right name - though I think it's the same as an old american telco ?

Cheers

Thank you...

PO15KA
14th October 2009, 05:59 PM
i was taught but a qualified sparky to have the cable on the inside and the wires pointing outward. then run a punchdown tool over it and it'll snip the ends off.

it doesn't matter if you use EIA/TIA568 A or B as long as you are consistent throughout the whole installation. ie. don't do A on one end and B on the other, otherwise it will result in a crossover.

Thank you... from the photos i included, can you confirm i have put the wires in the correct "slots" (i did follow the colour scheme as per B table)

AfterBurner
14th October 2009, 10:39 PM
KRONE is the punchdown tool name.

It's the manufacturer actually...

InsaneAsylum
15th October 2009, 08:04 AM
KRONE is the punchdown tool name.

It's the manufacturer actually...

lol i bought a cheap chinese knock off of the Krone punch down tool. looks exactly the same, works exactly the same but cost about $100 less than the real thing :)

AfterBurner
15th October 2009, 08:33 AM
lol i bought a cheap chinese knock off of the Krone punch down tool. looks exactly the same, works exactly the same but cost about $100 less than the real thing :)

I think Epay hav em for around $20 yeah... Not hard to get...

Calibrated
15th October 2009, 09:58 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Punch-Down-KRONE-TOOL-IDC-Network-Telephone-Insertion_W0QQitemZ280398083598QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ AU_Computers_Networking_Accessories?hash=item41490 7360e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

$8.76 including shipping.

AfterBurner
15th October 2009, 12:50 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Punch-Down-KRONE-TOOL-IDC-Network-Telephone-Insertion_W0QQitemZ280398083598QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ AU_Computers_Networking_Accessories?hash=item41490 7360e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

$8.76 including shipping.


There you have it - larfin..

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 07:59 PM
Depends on the cable type you're using and there are set standards for cable lengths before you get signal loss. Same principle as your older TV cables.

Cables run through walls and ceilings are usually a little different from patch cables and "extension" cables.

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:02 PM
KRONE is the punchdown tool name.

It's the manufacturer actually...

Krone is the brand.

Insulation Displacement Connectors (IDC) are the actual connector you are talking about. They are terminated with an IDC tool.

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=IDC%20tool&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

http://www.chinapans.com/images/idc-block-109877601-87.jpg

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:04 PM
Thank you... from the photos i included, can you confirm i have put the wires in the correct "slots" (i did follow the colour scheme as per B table)

I also need to let you know that what you are doing (DIY cabling of this sort) without a cabling licence is illegal.

The includes purchasing your own cable and putting the RJ45 ends on, terminating cable in RJ45 inserts in wallplates, or running any cable in a "permanent" method.

"Permanent" even means under the carpet.

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:07 PM
OK, it's been a while but had to attend to other things around the house. got the Cat5e cables laid couple of weeks ago, have the necessary wall plates installed and so on.

now i have a bit of a dillema... how to patch\connest the cat5e cable to the "keystone jacks"

i have couple of pictures can you advise me which is correct way to do it.

first of all i was advised to follow the B pattern but i am a bit confused as some of my friends also stated i have to put the wires on the "outside" of the keystone jack and others advise me to put the wires from the inside of the keystone jack...

could you review the pictures attached and tell me which is the correct way?

this is the keystone jacks type i have, do i follow the A or the B ?
http://images41.fotosik.pl/210/c807a18a7681226bm.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/c807a18a7681226b.html)

this is the cat5e cable i have
http://images49.fotosik.pl/214/f6a0988c93e97ae6m.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/f6a0988c93e97ae6.html)

followed the B pattern from "inside"
http://images47.fotosik.pl/213/0a865d4a885468c0m.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0a865d4a885468c0.html)

followed the B pattern from "outside"
http://images44.fotosik.pl/214/7230999f458b137em.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/7230999f458b137e.html)

waiting for your advice.

PS> maybe i should follow the A pattern? but someone said its not used in domestic applications...

You need to keep as much twist in the cable as possible. You have un-wound the pairs too much. Also, the cable goes up the middle and out the sides, like the 3rd picture.

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:09 PM
Depends on whether or not it's CAT5e or CAT6 cable..

CAT6 is better as the pairs are twisted = Lower loss...

You wouldn't wanna go more than 100m as Poita said, but 10m is a short run in any book...;)

AzzA

Lol, both Cat5 and Cat6 pairs are twisted. Cat6 has a tighter twist and has a spline in the middle.

AfterBurner
24th October 2009, 08:10 PM
Krone is the brand.

Insulation Displacement Connectors (IDC) are the actual connector you are talking about. They are terminated with an IDC tool.

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=IDC%20tool&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

http://www.chinapans.com/images/idc-block-109877601-87.jpg


Yah, correct, my bad... It popped into my head cos the one we have at work is actually a KRONE branded one & all the MDF/IDC blocks we use are also KRONE...:D

AfterBurner
24th October 2009, 08:12 PM
Lol, both Cat5 and Cat6 pairs are twisted. Cat6 has a tighter twist and has a spline in the middle.

Guess i should be more specific in the geek threads huh... lol... That's what i meant but it didn't come out of my keybaord that way...:D

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:16 PM
Yah, correct, my bad... It popped into my head cos the one we have at work is actually a KRONE branded one & all the MDF/IDC blocks we use are also KRONE...:D

I only use Krone or Molex. Sometimes Clipsal.

Kudrow
24th October 2009, 08:19 PM
Cat 6 on the left, Cat 5 on the right.

PO15KA
26th October 2009, 04:49 PM
I also need to let you know that what you are doing (DIY cabling of this sort) without a cabling licence is illegal.

The includes purchasing your own cable and putting the RJ45 ends on, terminating cable in RJ45 inserts in wallplates, or running any cable in a "permanent" method.

"Permanent" even means under the carpet.

Thanks for your help... could you elabrate more on the legality of this type of DIY ?
i understand putting your own electrical cables in the house and such because of risk of electricution and potentially burning down the house. This i will never attempt.
what can happen with a LAN cabling? can it catch on fire?
i made sure the lan cabling is as far as possible (minimum 30cm) from any electrical cables.
i made sure the cabling does not cross each other in any way (no lan cable crosses electrical cables)
i made sure the wall plates are secured correctly and the keystone jacks are punched down as securely and tightly as possible.

sorry for all the questions but i am a bit lost as to what could go wrong?

AfterBurner
26th October 2009, 08:47 PM
Thanks for your help... could you elabrate more on the legality of this type of DIY ?
i understand putting your own electrical cables in the house and such because of risk of electricution and potentially burning down the house. This i will never attempt.
what can happen with a LAN cabling? can it catch on fire?
i made sure the lan cabling is as far as possible (minimum 30cm) from any electrical cables.
i made sure the cabling does not cross each other in any way (no lan cable crosses electrical cables)
i made sure the wall plates are secured correctly and the keystone jacks are punched down as securely and tightly as possible.

sorry for all the questions but i am a bit lost as to what could go wrong?

i would say mainly OH&S purposes, it may work fine now but say u sell the house & in 5 or 10 yrs some insulation breaks down n sends 240v down the ethernet cable, not likely if you did it as explained, but the average Joe knows shit about cabling & there are many possible dangers involved. A licenced/experienced cabler would know what to avoid etc...

PO15KA
26th October 2009, 08:59 PM
i would say mainly OH&S purposes, it may work fine now but say u sell the house & in 5 or 10 yrs some insulation breaks down n sends 240v down the ethernet cable, not likely if you did it as explained, but the average Joe knows shit about cabling & there are many possible dangers involved. A licenced/experienced cabler would know what to avoid etc...


oh, if thats whats involved then all will be OK. LAN cables cleared away from any other cabling and piping at least 30 cm, secured with appropriate cable ties\hooks so unable to be moved.
wall plates secured according to the industry standard with proper brackets and away from other wall plates, cabling and piping.
the kaystone jacks have been wired as best as possible using approved tools and secured from possibility of water damage.

thanks again to all that contributed ;)

Kudrow
28th October 2009, 07:49 PM
Nothing really to do with OH&S (which is a change). It's pretty much the same principle as needing a licence to be an electrician. There are certain ways that cables must be run, like not directly next to power cables, and if so, what the spacing requirements are, what sort of ducting to use, what sort of cabling to use in what situation, wiring and termination methods and procedures, genernal do's and don'ts etc...

Another reason (particularly in telecomms) is that the work you do ends up connecting to the carriers network (aka Telstra's) and if dont incorrectly or wrong at your end, can cause all sorts of problems and cost you big money. An example being, copping ACMAs fine, plus the costs of fixing whatever problem you caused in the first place. Say this meant replacing some equipment in the exchange or compensating some big business customer who shares your cable in the street, well who knows how much it would be.

The fine from ACMA is about $13,000.00 or something along those lines.

See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1154765

Some more:

See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=351732
See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1299603
See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1267960

Kudrow
28th October 2009, 07:53 PM
oh, if thats whats involved then all will be OK. LAN cables cleared away from any other cabling and piping at least 30 cm, secured with appropriate cable ties\hooks so unable to be moved.

E.g. You are not supposed to use cable ties on LAN cable. It's not the standard. You are supposed to use velcro ties.

PO15KA
28th October 2009, 09:35 PM
Nothing really to do with OH&S (which is a change). It's pretty much the same principle as needing a licence to be an electrician. There are certain ways that cables must be run, like not directly next to power cables, and if so, what the spacing requirements are, what sort of ducting to use, what sort of cabling to use in what situation, wiring and termination methods and procedures, genernal do's and don'ts etc...

Another reason (particularly in telecomms) is that the work you do ends up connecting to the carriers network (aka Telstra's) and if dont incorrectly or wrong at your end, can cause all sorts of problems and cost you big money. An example being, copping ACMAs fine, plus the costs of fixing whatever problem you caused in the first place. Say this meant replacing some equipment in the exchange or compensating some big business customer who shares your cable in the street, well who knows how much it would be.

The fine from ACMA is about $13,000.00 or something along those lines.

See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1154765

Some more:

See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=351732
See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1299603
See: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1267960


ah krap! now you got me worried...i am positive i have done everything with as much safety and thought as possible (which in my case is spot on)
i might have to call a data tech from KRS or similiar and see if they can check everything before i start plugging my PC's in...

thanks again Kudrow

Kudrow
29th October 2009, 06:08 PM
ah krap! now you got me worried...i am positive i have done everything with as much safety and thought as possible (which in my case is spot on)
i might have to call a data tech from KRS or similiar and see if they can check everything before i start plugging my PC's in...

thanks again Kudrow

Don't say you did the cabling, he would probably dob you in. Say it was there when you got the house or your renting and it was already there etc...