ECU Problems

[SA33DS]

so lets start this off I have a Astra COnvertible 04 model manual z22se,

My battery ran out, so i decided ill get a new one, bought it and changed the battery, after i changed the battery, the car wouldnt turn on, F***!

i noticed the little orange car with spanner through it was flashing, so knew its ecu. i decided to get a mechanic come have a look he had a look and saw that injectors, throttle body, spark plugs battery everything is fine. and tonight i checked the fuel pump and that was cool too.

now the mechanic said that the ecu is ****ed up somehow when i changed the battery and its not injecting fuel to the engine or something like that. so i decided to take the ecu out and hopefully this is where someone can help me.

firstly and this is embarrasing lol, where is the ECU? i thought it would be in the boot but im wrong as usual.

also after taking it out i want to get it flashed or remapped. and if that doesnt work then replaced.

please any help will be greatly appreciated!!

[guy 27]

You will find the ecu is in the engine bay.
It is located to the left of the throttle body. If you look in Brads(daiflu) thread you will see a picture of it.

Edit: http://www.opelaus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=449357&postcount=258
The ecu is the thing with all those wires hanging out of it.

[SA33DS]

You will find the ecu is in the engine bay.
It is located to the left of the throttle body. If you look in Brads(daiflu) thread you will see a picture of it.

Edit: http://www.opelaus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=449357&postcount=258
The ecu is the thing with all those wires hanging out of it.


AWESOME!!!

thank you so much!!

now for the flashing/replace

who/where is recommended in sydney?

thanks so much again mate

[Keep'emRunning]

..will it allow the codes to be checked? Ecu wouldn't malfunction simply because of a battery change.

Check if the fuel pump relay is clicking on when turning the ignition key.

[SA33DS]

..will it allow the codes to be checked? Ecu wouldn't malfunction simply because of a battery change.

Check if the fuel pump relay is clicking on when turning the ignition key.


fuel pump sounds fine when the ignition is ticking, the mechanic that came and saw it checked the fuel system and also the intake.

It beats me ..... i did the paper clip test but nothing, maybe because the car wont start up. ....

Ill be taking out the ECU tonight and hoping to take it somewhere tomorrow. Any reccomendations?

[Keep'emRunning]

checked all the fuses, both in engine bay and behind the glove compartment?

Is the battery charged? :)

[gman]

So the dash lights come on when you turn the key?? Does the engine turn over??

It could be the ECU and the security module have stopped talking. Get the fault codes read "FIRST" before you change the ECU module over as the are very expensive....Around $1200 from Holden...

Easiest way is to get an OBD rear or you can do the "pedal test" to check the ECU MIL light code and then check the data base for what the issue is. The ECU may have been fried if it got a voltage spike somehow.

Check the codes and see what the issue is first....

[SA33DS]

checked all the fuses, both in engine bay and behind the glove compartment?

Is the battery charged? :)
The battery is brand new
The fuses are all fine


So the dash lights come on when you turn the key?? Does the engine turn over??

It could be the ECU and the security module have stopped talking. Get the fault codes read "FIRST" before you change the ECU module over as the are very expensive....Around $1200 from Holden...

Easiest way is to get an OBD rear or you can do the "pedal test" to check the ECU MIL light code and then check the data base for what the issue is. The ECU may have been fried if it got a voltage spike somehow.

Check the codes and see what the issue is first....

I cant do the test it only flashes continously
Since the car doesn't move, I want to take out the ecu and get it checked out tomorrow, can anyone recommend a workshop that can help me???

Thanks

[gman]

Well that's not so good....You'll prob have to get it done in the car....Even Holden apparently can only read them in the car...You might be able to get Lube mobile or similar to come and try and read the fault code off the car...

However it sounds almost exactly like what happened to my car when the ECU died..I was able to read the ECU a couple of times with a fault code reader then it finally just died and same thing, flashing MIL light...I had to get it towed to Holden to have a new ECU fitted and programmed to match the keys/security module....

[SA33DS]

Well that's not so good....You'll prob have to get it done in the car....Even Holden apparently can only read them in the car...You might be able to get Lube mobile or similar to come and try and read the fault code off the car...

However it sounds almost exactly like what happened to my car when the ECU died..I was able to read the ECU a couple of times with a fault code reader then it finally just died and same thing, flashing MIL light...I had to get it towed to Holden to have a new ECU fitted and programmed to match the keys/security module....

****en aye, how much did it cost you?

yeah with the paper clip test what i did was use a paper clip to short the 2 pins that you are ment to short going from a diagram. then hold the brake and accelerator together and switch to ignition and nothing happens just the light keeps flashing.

Apparently i fried the ecu cos of a voltage overload. I was rushing and put negative lead first then i was like oh **** and took it off then put positive then negative and didnt work.

:(

[gman]

****en aye, how much did it cost you?

yeah with the paper clip test what i did was use a paper clip to short the 2 pins that you are ment to short going from a diagram. then hold the brake and accelerator together and switch to ignition and nothing happens just the light keeps flashing.

Apparently i fried the ecu cos of a voltage overload. I was rushing and put negative lead first then i was like oh **** and took it off then put positive then negative and didnt work.

:(

Ahhh...ouch!!!!!!

Yep, I think you've definitely fried the ECU then...Mine happened when some low life tried to break into the car and shorted the battery out against the ECU body under the bonnet when they stuck something under to get to the bonnet catch/release...

The ECU was just over $1,000, labor and re-programmed to the keys etc should have been just over $250, however it was free as they owed me a favor from stuffing up a service years ago and they are trying to get my business back...

The only options you realistically have if the ECU is toast is to tow it to Holden, pay the $$$$'s and get them to fit and program a new ECU to the car...

Unless you can get a new ECU, security module, keys etc from somewhere and fit them yourself or get a trusted mechanic to do it...But they are almost impossible to find and getting it to work properly if you don;t do something right could end up an expensive waste of time, but you could try the Astra specialist wrecker in Sydney....

[SA33DS]

Ahhh...ouch!!!!!!

Yep, I think you've definitely fried the ECU then...Mine happened when some low life tried to break into the car and shorted the battery out against the ECU body under the bonnet when they stuck something under to get to the bonnet catch/release...

The ECU was just over $1,000, labor and re-programmed to the keys etc should have been just over $250, however it was free as they owed me a favor from stuffing up a service years ago and they are trying to get my business back...

The only options you realistically have if the ECU is toast is to tow it to Holden, pay the $$$$'s and get them to fit and program a new ECU to the car...

Unless you can get a new ECU, security module, keys etc from somewhere and fit them yourself or get a trusted mechanic to do it...But they are almost impossible to find and getting it to work properly if you don;t do something right could end up an expensive waste of time, but you could try the Astra specialist wrecker in Sydney....

yeap im hitting myself mate, are there any astra specialist mechanics?

[gman]

Sorry mate, not that I know of...

The problem is that when the ECU goes your dealing with the security and anti-theft systems and they usually need the actual dealer tech2 systems.

I've got a few ECU readers/programmers that can do just about anything and everything BUT writing the security codes to the ECU. Thats something that whilst not hard to do with the right hardware/software package (I actually help/watched the head mechanic do it and it took literally 3 minutes) is reserved for the dealer systems or the seriously expensive aftermarket/mechanic systems....

[SA33DS]

Sorry mate, not that I know of...

The problem is that when the ECU goes your dealing with the security and anti-theft systems and they usually need the actual dealer tech2 systems.

I've got a few ECU readers/programmers that can do just about anything and everything BUT writing the security codes to the ECU. Thats something that whilst not hard to do with the right hardware/software package (I actually help/watched the head mechanic do it and it took literally 3 minutes) is reserved for the dealer systems or the seriously expensive aftermarket/mechanic systems....

F***!!

I just don't know what to do :(

[auzvectra]

more bad news too, the 2.2L ecu is a lot dearer then the turbo's :(.
think it's around the 1600 mark.

just a random thought, have u tried the spare key, the light flashing when trying to start is also a bad immob signal?

althought from what u mentioned, it should have brought up a code for it when u tested it, u dont need to use the paperclip to test either, just brake n accel then turn ign on, while keepin both pedals down.

[SA33DS]

more bad news too, the 2.2L ecu is a lot dearer then the turbo's :(.
think it's around the 1600 mark.

just a random thought, have u tried the spare key, the light flashing when trying to start is also a bad immob signal?

althought from what u mentioned, it should have brought up a code for it when u tested it, u dont need to use the paperclip to test either, just brake n accel then turn ign on, while keepin both pedals down.

Lol i actually dont have a spare key. yeahhhh ****ed up aye.

Its all too much of a headache, im going to the holden service place in blacktown tomorrow to talk to them about it.

there is a point that you get to where you think for 2 grand why not spend a little more and chuck a z20let in LOL

lets see what happens

[auzvectra]

haha, i like that idea. dead ecu = reason for engine swap :D.

[JR]

oh man, wat a bummer!!!
a simple task of changing the battery....that's all it was.

i'm lucky nothing happened to my ecu when i changed the my battery - i didn't know anything about connecting up the positive terminal 1st, then the negative!!!
i must've got it right, without realising the potential consequences!! :yikes:

hope u find a good n cheap replacement. from wat i've heard, astra, or any opels ecus for that matter, r a b1tch to replace n diagnose.

good luck mate

[SA33DS]

Thanks guys,

I went and spoke to one of holden's service centre advisor dudes and he said it shouldnt be a problem with the ecu, he also said that convertibles dont present fault codes from ems light lol

but he said most likely something happened to the immobiliser because the immobiliser cuts the fuel and air intake.

so I've booked to get it towed there on monday and get them to have a look at it. at this point i dont care i just want it fixed :(

will keep this thread updated, hopefully to provide information if someone else goes through this problem.

One thing i realise, when you change the battery in a remote control for example, try it now take the battery out and put it back in, which terminal makes contact first...... negative. I looked at some online stuff too and people say connecting negative shouldnt harm the engine.

and also i have figured out that it could have just been some sort of error, with the immobiliser, most defintly, im reliefed about, but cant wait till monday till i find out.

[gman]

Mate for your sake I hope its not the ECU and is just the immobiliser....

[DirtyHarry]

just out of curiosity..have you tried disconnecting the negative terminal from the battery..leaving it off for 10 min and then plugging it back in?

[SA33DS]

just out of curiosity..have you tried disconnecting the negative terminal from the battery..leaving it off for 10 min and then plugging it back in?

yeah i did it over night a few times lol

Fingers crossed it is the immobiliser

[tomtom]

Apparently i fried the ecu cos of a voltage overload. I was rushing and put negative lead first then i was like oh **** and took it off then put positive then negative and didnt work.

:(

Can you explain that a bit more?

[SA33DS]

Dropped it off at holden today, they said its most likely an issue with the immobiliser, I'll know either by this afternoon or tomorrow whats wrong with it.

[SA33DS]

Just got a call from the dealership.....

the ecu and immobiliser have been reprogrammed and its ready to go, cost = 142 bucks!

woot!!! the trick i think is to go in there and know what you want from them..... this morning i dropped it off and said the immobiliser isnt recognising my key, here are the anti-theft codes......

sweet cant wait to drive her tonight!!!

now for the money i put aside for that work.... i might look into suspension upgrade.. !

[nuggz]

always love a happy ending to a story :D

congrats mate

[gman]

Mate awesome result!!!!! Congrats on getting the car back up and running!!!!

[daiflu]

Fark, that's a good outcome!
Good stuff!

[hazrd]

man thats the cheapest holden bill ive ever seen :p

well done and good to see shes back up and running

[SA33DS]

Cheerios,

Awesome feeling, lol they did a damn good job too i was surprised, i even wrote them an awesome feedback!

[tomtom]

Can you explain that a bit more?

bump. I sitll dont get what you did with your battery. I've taken my wires off all sorts of different combinations (positive first, negative first, slap my penis on the battery cover first etc) and nothing has ever gone wrong.

All i've known is you take the negative terminal off first as a safety precaution (for yourself).

Ie: if you were using a spanner to undo the bolt on positive first and your spanner touches, i unno, something that completes the circuit, you die (from a 12V lol).

Whereas if you were undoing the negative, nothing will happen... and when you go to do the positive theres no circuit.

:confused:

Glad to hear your car is back to running again. After those suspension upgrades habibs come to Wakefield. I'm hoping to go again in mid sem break in September.

[gman]

You take them off in order to prevent voltage spikes that can fry ECU's more than anything to protect you as the remover of the battery leads.

If your using a spanner on the positive terminal and you touch anything that earths the battery, your still going to get a huge spark and spike (nothing like a little impromptu arc welding)...

Undoing the negative terminal first may just stop it going through the cars system. However if you earth the positive terminal and lead to the car/engine/body etc it may not as the electrical system earths there anyway...

Its the same same concept as the jumper cables that have the voltage arrestors in them to prevent sudden voltage spikes.

[tomtom]

You take them off in order to prevent voltage spikes that can fry ECU's more than anything to protect you as the remover of the battery leads.

If your using a spanner on the positive terminal and you touch anything that earths the battery, your still going to get a huge spark and spike (nothing like a little impromptu arc welding)...

Undoing the negative terminal first may just stop it going through the cars system. However if you earth the positive terminal and lead to the car/engine/body etc it may not as the electrical system earths there anyway...

Its the same same concept as the jumper cables that have the voltage arrestors in them to prevent sudden voltage spikes.

cheers Gman. Now i know :)

[SA33DS]

Lol, penis on battery??

cool how does it feel??

i dont know but i think what caused it was that i just removed the battery without doing it within the 10 second period from turning the ignition off.....

maybe

[AfterBurner]

You take them off in order to prevent voltage spikes that can fry ECU's more than anything to protect you as the remover of the battery leads.

If your using a spanner on the positive terminal and you touch anything that earths the battery, your still going to get a huge spark and spike (nothing like a little impromptu arc welding)...

Undoing the negative terminal first may just stop it going through the cars system. However if you earth the positive terminal and lead to the car/engine/body etc it may not as the electrical system earths there anyway...

Its the same same concept as the jumper cables that have the voltage arrestors in them to prevent sudden voltage spikes.

I don't understand this, if you break the circuit, it's broken... If you disconnect the negative first, the circuit is broken as TomTom said...

I don't care either way but, TomTom is right in saying that if you short the spanner to body with the Negative connected, you WILL arc weld the spanner to your body, if the NEGATIVE is off, this cannot possibly happen, the only thing that can happen is you will get a spark if you touch the Positive to the body as it discharges the Capacitors in the car's electrics, esp if you have big amps/subs etc... I personally have never seen nor heard of a car being damaged from doing it or not doing it in a certain order.

I even used OFC Speaker cable that was for my subs once to start my old Falcon when i had no Jumper leads, worked fine... Mind you i had to double it back to get enough current to run thru...

In essence, a circuit is a circuit, no matter which way you connect/disconnect, the electrons will still flow the same way...

my 2c.

ps. TomTom, 12v will not kill you unless you put 2x 1" nails in either side of your Penis & hook it up directly with no resistance in the circuit, even then it probably still won't kill you... You need the Volts to carry the Amps...

pps. Glad to hear the car is fine dude... I think Holden luv us Opel heads, means more $$$'s for 'em...

[gman]

I don't understand this, if you break the circuit, it's broken... If you disconnect the negative first, the circuit is broken as TomTom said...

Correct..The circuit is broken to the cars electrics if you remove either the negative OR the positive..Agreed...But if you remove the positive first or you may short circuit the positive terminal to a grounded part of the car causing a voltage spike through the system. Also, removing the negative first stops voltage spikes as you remove the positive terminal WHILE the circuit is still completed throughthe battery which saves electronics as the current flows FROM POSITIVE to NEGATIVE.


I don't care either way but, TomTom is right in saying that if you short the spanner to body with the Negative connected, you WILL arc weld the spanner to your body,

Absolutely, we agreed on that...Negative connected or not, touch anything metal from the positive terminal to the body, you will arc weld it to the car...


if the NEGATIVE is off, this cannot possibly happen,

Ummm, I think I disagree...If the Negative is disconnected and you touch anything metal from the Positive terminal to the body you are completing the circuit and it will still spark to the body just a badly...If you mean the Positive lead, thats a different story.....


the only thing that can happen is you will get a spark if you touch the Positive to the body as it discharges the Capacitors in the car's electrics, esp if you have big amps/subs etc... I personally have never seen nor heard of a car being damaged from doing it or not doing it in a certain order.

I think this is where we're getting confused...By battery terminal, do you mean the actual terminal on the battery or the lead that attaches to it?

If you take the lead off the battery it will not spark against body if you let to touch it...


In essence, a circuit is a circuit, no matter which way you connect/disconnect, the electrons will still flow the same way...

They only flow one way... ;) But I think we're saying the same thing....The issue comes where there is a possibility of sending a voltage spike through the system (completing the circuit) while the positive is still connected and thats what fries electronics like ECU's

[AfterBurner]

Ummm, I think I disagree...If the Negative is disconnected and you touch anything metal from the Positive terminal to the body you are completing the circuit and it will still spark to the body just a badly...If you mean the Positive lead, thats a different story.....

OK here's the point i mean, im not being argumentative btw Gman, just clarifying the point, IF the circuit is broken, its broken. It doesn't matter if you break POSITIVE or NEGATIVE, the circuit is incomplete, therefore, no matter what you touch to the car body, whether it be the Positive OR Negative terminal makes no difference, so long as the battery has been isolated, ie. 1 lead is removed... UNLESS you still have the NEGATIVE connected then short the positive battery terminal to the car body, in essence your placing the spanner across the battery (now a welding rod)... If you touch the positive lead to the body, you will get a spark which is just residual current left over in the system, IMO shouldn't cause any damage...

So disconnecting the Negative first is a wise choice, as for re-connecting, doesn't matter so long as you don't do it backwards!!!:mad::mad::mad:

As for Voltage Spikes - Impossible. Surge, maybe but doubtful... A spike in general would mean 'Over-Voltage' which cannot happen unless your regulator/alternator is rooted & passes AC thru with the engine running because your rectifier is shot (4 diode matrix inside the Alternator). Remember - a car battery is a 12v cell, so, you can't get more than 12v from it!;)

The other point worth a mention... 'Conventional Current flow' is indeed Positive to Negative, but, 'Electron Flow' is from Negative to Positive... Confusing i know :confused:

Hope that clears things up, i think we both mean the same thing but are saying it differently???

...:D

[gman]

OK here's the point i mean, im not being argumentative btw Gman, just clarifying the point, IF the circuit is broken, its broken. It doesn't matter if you break POSITIVE or NEGATIVE, the circuit is incomplete, therefore, no matter what you touch to the car body, whether it be the Positive OR Negative terminal makes no difference, so long as the battery has been isolated, ie. 1 lead is removed... UNLESS you still have the NEGATIVE connected then short the positive battery terminal to the car body, in essence your placing the spanner across the battery (now a welding rod)... If you touch the positive lead to the body, you will get a spark which is just residual current left over in the system, IMO shouldn't cause any damage...

So disconnecting the Negative first is a wise choice, as for re-connecting, doesn't matter so long as you don't do it backwards!!!:mad::mad::mad:

As for Voltage Spikes - Impossible. Surge, maybe but doubtful... A spike in general would mean 'Over-Voltage' which cannot happen unless your regulator/alternator is rooted & passes AC thru with the engine running because your rectifier is shot (4 diode matrix inside the Alternator). Remember - a car battery is a 12v cell, so, you can't get more than 12v from it!;)

The other point worth a mention... 'Conventional Current flow' is indeed Positive to Negative, but, 'Electron Flow' is from Negative to Positive... Confusing i know :confused:

Hope that clears things up, i think we both mean the same thing but are saying it differently???

...:D

I think you might be right... :)

[tomtom]

what the FK just happened in the last few posts lol?

I'm just going to say i'll be doing negative first as Ive always done.... because thats the way papa told me to.


ps. TomTom, 12v will not kill you unless you put 2x 1" nails in either side of your Penis & hook it up directly with no resistance in the circuit, even then it probably still won't kill you... You need the Volts to carry the Amps...

lolo i know thats why i said "from a 12v lol":o.