Forced Induction Conversions'

[Shay]

Ok hi guys, im seriously considering doing a forced induction conversion on my car.

Want to know what is involved.
leaning towards SC as there is a shop over here that does MR2 ones for about $600.

so my shoppin thoughts:
S/C
Piping
Inlet manifold to S/C adaptor plate
SRiT/VXR injectors (??)
Fuel pump
FPR
decompression plate
FMIC (do you put a fmic between filter and s/c?)
Piggyback ecu (??)
belts.
extractors
flowed head.
flowed intake manifold

so can you think of anything else?
is it safe to run your water pump slower, if so might add a underdrive belt.

[hazrd]

you are forgetting your drivetrain.

urs is an auto yeah? will need to look into ways of strengthening it or something (i havent looked into this myself yet so im unsure) because with any big change in power, the transmission has to be able to handle it

[mania]

I wouldn't run the water pump on a turbo converted car slower then when it was naturally aspirated...

Also the FMIC goes between the s/c and the manifold. If you're not planning on running much boost, they're often not used for s/cs (eg the s/c conversions on the ls series), as it adds a lot to the charge length going from supercharger -> fmic -> inlet manifold, and isn't as necessary. But it sounds like you're aiming for a bit, with decompression plates, so probably worth looking in to :).

Sounds like you've thought of pretty much everything - only suggestion is what's the stock AFM on your engine? It may only be rated at the airflow for 150hp or so, in which case you may need larger.

[Shay]

you are forgetting your drivetrain.

urs is an auto yeah? will need to look into ways of strengthening it or something (i havent looked into this myself yet so im unsure) because with any big change in power, the transmission has to be able to handle it

thought the box in it was good up to 350ish hp?
my aim is for ~250-300 hp

[Shay]

I wouldn't run the water pump on a turbo converted car slower then when it was naturally aspirated...

Also the FMIC goes between the s/c and the manifold. If you're not planning on running much boost, they're often not used for s/cs (eg the s/c conversions on the ls series), as it adds a lot to the charge length going from supercharger -> fmic -> inlet manifold, and isn't as necessary. But it sounds like you're aiming for a bit, with decompression plates, so probably worth looking in to :).

Sounds like you've thought of pretty much everything - only suggestion is what's the stock AFM on your engine? It may only be rated at the airflow for 150hp or so, in which case you may need larger.

thanks mate.
thats pretty useful, dont have much room for a fmic anyway.

hmm yeah AFM, would def have to look at that.

[Neeko]

I don't think its worth it eh unless u have a money tree out the back.

Even if money isn't an issue your car being an older girl, reliability will completely disappear. It will be a never ending project that will cause hassle after hassle. That's just my 2 cents.
IMO you will always be better of buying a turbo and modding that to your liking.

[Shay]

I don't think its worth it eh unless u have a money tree out the back.

Even if money isn't an issue your car being an older girl, reliability will completely disappear. It will be a never ending project that will cause hassle after hassle. That's just my 2 cents.
IMO you will always be better of buying a turbo and modding that to your liking.

hmm, well i dont plan of sellin this car anytime soon,
and my thoughts were, spend 6-7k on this, or buy a 1jz supra for the same money.
and this car is pretty damn reliable, and i love the extreme sleeper idea.
while the supra would be fun, IMO would cost more to make it as powerful/reliable

[daiflu]

Before asking yourself 'what do I need?'
ask 'what is my budget?' and 'how long am I likely to keep this car?'
followed by 'am I sure I want to blow coin on this rather than upgrade to another vehicle?'

There'll be plenty of people who'll tell you not to bother, and they'd have a good point. if you add it up on paper, along with some realistic power figures, then weigh it up against what you could buy for the money. But hey, you've probably already done that and want to be different right? then go for it!

I'd start by doing a few of the mods that you can use now. Like the extractors and the ECU.

I wouldn't go for the MR2 supercharger, as it was fitted to a 1600 engine, in the mid 80's meaning the chance of finding one in decent condition is pretty slim. There was a latter model Levin (FWD) that came supercharged, (we didn't get them here) that could be a contenter. I would go turbo, or at least something suited to the capacity of the engine.

Without going all out with internals (especially cause) yours are likely pretty old, you're never going to be putting out big power, so really no need to flow the head or manifold.

Most people that successfuly complete these kind of projects either:
a) have money to burn
b) are in the industry, or advanced DIY with good contacts
c) do it over a loooong time and come out with something fairly sub-par to the current 'scene' (seen this one many times)
d) get themselves into alot of dept

Unless you're a or b, it's not really worth it.
You also need to think about extra maintenance and insurance. If you don't have this extra cash now, likely as not you're going to find it hard.

but like I said, if it's what you really want, then go for it!
Otherwise this is just another, 'I want to FI my ---' thread which never gets off the paper.

[Neeko]

hmm, well i dont plan of sellin this car anytime soon,
and my thoughts were, spend 6-7k on this, or buy a 1jz supra for the same money.
and this car is pretty damn reliable, and i love the extreme sleeper idea.
while the supra would be fun, IMO would cost more to make it as powerful/reliable

Unfortunately you'd probably be looking at heaps more $$$ than that.
Like I said the car being reliable now, not so much after conversion. There are just so many things that can go wrong.
What about an engine conversion?

[daiflu]

only suggestion is what's the stock AFM on your engine? It may only be rated at the airflow for 150hp or so, in which case you may need larger.

You can run a clamp, or would probably do away with it using aftermarket ecu.



while the supra would be fun, IMO would cost more to make it as powerful/reliable

Hell no! 1J would eat you up and run for twice as long with the same $$ spent.

[vectraguy01]

with that hp you want shay, I think you would have to do some internals within the engine. Remember S/C is always on and never stops until engine is off, which means alot less km's per tank. T/C are easier to install and prob have more power at the end of the day. I think you need to do some further research into which S/C will fit for your engine, I dont think alot of ppl do S/C's for opels.

Good idea though, however how long do you intend to keep this car for? think of the money you need to invest for it and in like 5 years, how much will it be worth?

[Shay]

You can run a clamp, or would probably do away with it using aftermarket ecu.



Hell no! 1J would eat you up and run for twice as long with the same $$ spent.

the 1j would be a second car, not a replacement. so 6k mods to mine v 6k 1j
power/weight i would prob have the advantage.

it is true this prob will never get off the paper, but ive been doin heaps oof lookin around on this forum and other opel/vauxhall ones and there is pretty much no advice on what you need or need to do.

so even if this doesnt get anywhere could be helpful for others.
supercharger is new. just made for MR2's.

[Jerram]

There was a time where I was considering doing something similar to this with my Vec, but eventually my unfortunately large common sense machine caught up with me and hence why I've decided I'll just upgrade to something else (as said elsewhere probs a BMW |6 (or perhaps V8) of similar age).

But, that being said, to do that would be one hell of a build and you'd get a (pretty awesome) car that would be probably 1 of a kind in Australia (take that to be good or bad). In the end I guess the old saying of "It's your car" is really what matters here and hey you've always got us to tell you in 20 different ways when 'ur doin' it wrong.

W/regard to technicalities, I'd probably say that if you're gonna do it then yeah add on the extra hundreds and get a manual box and perhaps add a Quaife.

[Shay]

W/regard to technicalities, I'd probably say that if you're gonna do it then yeah add on the extra hundreds and get a manual box and perhaps add a Quaife.

thats what my mate is saying to, that i should look at a manual conversion before any other performance mods.

would really like to see the outcome of Daaaavek's supercharged z22 that he is gettin ready. but ive a feeling its a fair way away.

[hazrd]

thats what my mate is saying to, that i should look at a manual conversion before any other performance mods.


:nonod:
if its anything like the cost for a calibra manual conversion.... i wouldnt look into it unless u want a heart attack

ive decided that if i am to go a manual conversion... im gunna buy a manual calibra, and swap all my current stuff over to it

much cheaper :yesnod:

[Shay]

:nonod:
if its anything like the cost for a calibra manual conversion.... i wouldnt look into it unless u want a heart attack

ive decided that if i am to go a manual conversion... im gunna buy a manual calibra, and swap all my current stuff over to it

much cheaper :yesnod:

i was looking at repairable write-offs, then swap the box and wreck the rest.
or else find a gear and pedal box in a wrecker.

just did the sums, need 40kw atf to have the same power/weight as a stock 1j

[gmonkey]

you got to remember the 1j has stronger internals in it already, if your wanting to run boost you will need new pistons and the such, yours will melt.. crank a 1jz's boost up it will still handle it and 40kw will become something more like 80kw.. which is a hell of a lot! 40kw is still alot its about a nissan micra worth ;)... IMO IF your going to spend this kind of money on a S/C your better off doing an engine conversion to the V6 Vectra Engine and then work with that after youve saved some more money up again.. :p

the amount of boost you will achieve in your vec b will be like 6-8psi psi safely which will only prob give you 20kw? but set you back thousands.. not to mention your gearbox being so old will hold it back again.

you shouldnt need a piggy back ecu, a flash/remap should suffice, you only use the piggybacks when there was no OBD ports to remap, the chip used to overlap your existing ECU and be soldered on to it, not 100% sure with vec B's but fairly sure you have an OBD

[Shay]

you shouldnt need a piggy back ecu, a flash/remap should suffice, you only use the piggybacks when there was no OBD ports to remap, the chip used to overlap your existing ECU and be soldered on to it, not 100% sure with vec B's but fairly sure you have an OBD

have an OBD but dont think you can control AFR through it

[gmonkey]

you should be able to id imagine... cause your AFR will be sent to your ECU, which when you plug up to the OBD it to the ECU so should i think..

[gmonkey]

that made no sence sorry...

i mean your AFR reading will be sent to you ECU, therefor when you tune from the OBD it is a dirrect connection to the ECU so you should be able to do AFR values with it.. id imagine :p

[daiflu]

would really like to see the outcome of Daaaavek's supercharged z22 that he is gettin ready. but ive a feeling its a fair way away.


Have you seen Johnny's from the UK?
same engine and SC as Dave, but in a car similar to yours:
http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=112
BIG $$ spent though ;)

You could control (or set) AFR's with a remap if it was a custom job done on a dyno.

[mania]

The other approach... which may be laughable, is a lot cheaper. Aim to only increase your peak hp by a small amount. That means you can keep your transmission (er well, maybe not - torque increases), keep your afm, keep your injectors, keep your fuel pump, keep your internals, etc etc. But aim so that your power band is as large as possible, and extends as low as is possible. Would give a nice kick when floored from any revs, although you have to push "torques" instead of horsepowers, much like the diesel gangs. Certainly more likely to see success (which I would love to see :p) though then aiming for 300hp straight off the bat. Anyway, don't flame me - not my idea, first read it here (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_-Turbod-for-Torque/A_111106/article.html). :)

[mania]

the amount of boost you will achieve in your vec b will be like 6-8psi psi safely which will only prob give you 20kw? but set you back thousands.. not to mention your gearbox being so old will hold it back again.

8psi's over half an atmosphere... Would hope to get more then 20kW out of squeezing 50% more air in to a 2.2L :p, even after losses.

[gmonkey]

on a car that old i think 20kw is realistic :p

[Shay]

on a car that old i think 20kw is realistic :p

cars only done 130,000 kms and always been well looked after, was garaged for 9 years of its life.

driving wise its about half its age.

[SSS_Hoon]

WoW.

Well for starters id say look at getting a car that has already been done, u will save urself a lot of cash in the long run that i know for sure.


Also just bcoz u have the same or better p/w ratio then the 1jz dont mean shit, it dont mean that u will eat it or be faster then it at all. Hell u could have twice the power it has and still be eating by it trust me.

Wouldnt worry about doing a manual conversion id keep the auto but get a full rebuild with a shift kit and a full work over might cost a few k but can be done.


i wouldnt worry about a decomp plate one bit, u will need a better fuel pump, inj and decent tune though. Although u would need them even if u had the decomp plate.


Your car will be realiable right now that is for sure, but once its been boosted it will most likly spend more time off the road then on. It is possible to get it all done on the cheap and have it run well all day everyday, just depends on if u skimp on any thing.

Do it once and do it right.


too tired to think of anything else right now, not even sure if what i wrote makes any sense hehehe.

SSS_Hoon

[mania]

Why the hate for power to weight ratio SSS? It may not help top speed, but it affects low speed acceleration a hell of a lot..

Of course "quicker" is very vague.

[Wraith]

+ 1 to daiflu's 1st post, agree with what he wrote there on this topic...

Shay, if your commited and really want to do this and have the time and dudget (and the patience) those 4 things are essential, then go for it :)

Would make even more sense if this car then becomes a 2nd car or weekender or the like rather than your everyday car, as besides longevity and ongoing reliability issues you will have trouble trying to get it insured, I dare say no insurance company will take on a car modified like that and owned by a 19 year old, but you'll need to make the inquiries and see the result of that one...

[SSS_Hoon]

i dont have a thing against p/w ratio at all.

Just in his car being FWD and harder to get traction it would need to be a fair bit higher to beat a rwd or awd car of the same ratio is all i was saying.

I just know how it is to have a FWD car with some decent amount of power and the troubles with traction it brings.

SSS_Hoon

[Shay]

what stock boost are the Z20LET, Z20LER set to?

[Greg K]

i dont have a thing against p/w ratio at all.

Just in his car being FWD and harder to get traction it would need to be a fair bit higher to beat a rwd or awd car of the same ratio is all i was saying.

I just know how it is to have a FWD car with some decent amount of power and the troubles with traction it brings.

SSS_Hoon

+1... dont forget being an auto, there will be more losses between engine power and the ability to transfer it to the road. So a 40kw defecit to begin with, will mean that realistically, you will need at least 80kw to have any chance against a supra. The 2.2ltr engine mated with an auto will prob only get 80-90kw atw on a dyno (stock). Adding a s/c might get you to around 120kw, which is what a slightly modded veccy v6 will get you... which will in no way beat a supra

unless you go the full hog and cut no corners, then IMO the project is a waste of time. But then again, its your car and you have to be happy with it.. :)

[CNBLU]

what stock boost are the Z20LET, Z20LER set to?

thinks its somewhere around 8-10psi

[Shay]

thinks its somewhere around 8-10psi

kk, thanks gav, is that what the stock controller is set to?
or just all they can manage

[nuggz]

a charged v6 will only put out 150ish at the wheels
still no match for a tuned 1j or 2j

[mania]

Set to 7psi apparently (http://www.zoopedup.net/lofiversion/index.php/t19180.html). Sounds about right.

EDIT: Woah, apparently didn't notice there was a 3rd page of this thread. How late am I..

[Shay]

a charged v6 will only put out 150ish at the wheels
still no match for a tuned 1j or 2j

lol forget that idea everyone, i know that a lil unrealistic.

im thinkin seriously bout running .5 bar through a small turbo, that hopefully will spool up to 6/7/8 psi @ around 2500 rpm.

with everything stock bar the exhaust man, turb, downpipe, FPR, small fmic, piping,

+ modified water lines
+ oil lines tapped into sump & .......

looking at manias car yesterday, i think it is very doable, they are so similar.

btw if you have 1.5 bar, as opposed to 1 bar, will you MAF chuck up a warning?

[Shay]

Set to 7psi apparently (http://www.zoopedup.net/lofiversion/index.php/t19180.html). Sounds about right.

EDIT: Woah, apparently didn't notice there was a 3rd page of this thread. How late am I..

that said 12.3 psi?
sorry for the noob q) do the astras have a adjustable boost controller as standard attached to the turbo?

[Neeko]

that said 12.3 psi?
sorry for the noob q) do the astras have a adjustable boost controller as standard attached to the turbo?

nope :)

[mania]

Argh sorry, was looking at the SR20DET.. 12.3 psi sounds a lot more likely, seeing as Phase 1 without exhaust is about 13.2psi and adds about 8% peak power. Too early in the morning Shay...

[CNBLU]

Argh sorry, was looking at the SR20DET.. 12.3 psi sounds a lot more likely, seeing as Phase 1 without exhaust is about 13.2psi and adds about 8% peak power. Too early in the morning Shay...

but its 11:51am :yikes:

[Keep'emRunning]

Thread like these show up on every car forum that exists.. if anything it's a great outlet for creativity and exchange of imaginative ideas even if they don't get off the ground.

A few years ago, one of our young engineers (his first paying job) had a tired old nissan bluebird and started a ground up rebuild of the 1800cc engine.

He removed and stripped the block in his garage, sourced & imported new pistons,rods,cams, as well as a nice shiny garret he found on ebay... and spent the majority of his free time chasing parts and the people at the shop who were doing the rebuild.

His estimate was $7-8k and 3 months installed & back on the road (and was catching the bus to work everyday as his car was off the road) Had to admire his fortitude!

Unfortunately 6 months later and -well- exceeding budget, he still didn't have an engine and was p*ssd at..

1. not having any money
2. not having any transport (esp over christmas)
3. tradespeople, sales staff and mechanics in general
4. himself

In the end he left us, as he found a (sales) job which offered a company car, and everything was on ebay 'as is' Sad story as his enthusiasm and knowledge was unquestionable. He was simply let down an unrealistic view of time and costs, and by people expected to do the work properly.

Probably would've been a rocket once done though... could prolly dig up his thread on the nissan forums somewhere.

[SSS_Hoon]

Thread like these show up on every car forum that exists.. if anything it's a great outlet for creativity and exchange of imaginative ideas even if they don't get off the ground.

A few years ago, one of our young engineers (his first paying job) had a tired old nissan bluebird and started a ground up rebuild of the 1800cc engine.

He removed and stripped the block in his garage, sourced & imported new pistons,rods,cams, as well as a nice shiny garret he found on ebay... and spent the majority of his free time chasing parts and the people at the shop who were doing the rebuild.

His estimate was $7-8k and 3 months installed & back on the road (and was catching the bus to work everyday as his car was off the road) Had to admire his fortitude!

Unfortunately 6 months later and -well- exceeding budget, he still didn't have an engine and was p*ssd at..

1. not having any money
2. not having any transport (esp over christmas)
3. tradespeople, sales staff and mechanics in general
4. himself

In the end he left us, as he found a (sales) job which offered a company car, and everything was on ebay 'as is' Sad story as his enthusiasm and knowledge was unquestionable. He was simply let down an unrealistic view of time and costs, and by people expected to do the work properly.

Probably would've been a rocket once done though... could prolly dig up his thread on the nissan forums somewhere.


Sounds like me LoL, except i actually finished it lol.


But its the story for most though actually.

On the SSS forum it comes up all the time engine conversions, main responses are.

1) dont do it, buy one that is already done and casued headaches for someone else.

2) there is no cheap way about it so dont ask.

3) whatever your budget and time frame is allow for up to double on both.

and now there are cars that are already complete and done and running well, for less then what i spent on the parts alone its mental.

But after its all said and done and u drive it, at least you know that u did and u went through it all, just makes u appreciate it more i guess.

Mine was off the road from middle of dec last year and i only got it back a few weeks ago, and before i got it back i was like i might sell it im sick of it blah blah blah, then once it was finished and i tok it for a drive i was like nah i not selling it hehehe.



SSS_Hoon

[auzvectra]

yeah me too sss ;).

astra sri-t runs 12.3psi overboost and 7psi constant in stock form.
remapped runs "upto" 22psi o/boost, and "targets" 15psi constant, but drops with revs, heat, and other limitations and restrictions.

yes shay the sri-t is identicle to ur engine, same head (just has provisions in the exhaust ports for SAI) and has diff tappet cover (to hold the leads instead of coil pack).

bottom end is the same, 2.2L has longer stroke, taller block, same bore. same/similar crank (may or may not have balance shafts).

[mania]

auzvectra... is that how you've managed to make a Z22LET? I tried figuring it out from your car thread but failed :p

[Neeko]

auzvectra... is that how you've managed to make a Z22LET? I tried figuring it out from your car thread but failed :p
yep :p different bottom end

[mania]

-wants-

[auzvectra]

haha, it's actually more like a Z23LET :D, bout 20-30cc's short from memory.