NSW plan for speed limiters in all cars

[btm]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,27574,25504164-5006009,00.html
NSW plan for speed limiters in all cars


ALL new cars in NSW could soon be fitted with anti-speeding devices that would make breaking the limit almost impossible and render speeding fines a thing of the past.
The State Government is hoping to make the speed limiting devices - undergoing trials in NSW this year - a standard safety feature in new cars in the same way airbags are now.

If rolled out across the board the device has the potential to not only phase out speeding altogether but also deprive the Government of tens of millions in revenue.

The Government collected more than $82 million in speeding fines last year, after issuing more than 700,000 infringement notices.

Our Joe Hildebrand tests a speed-limited car (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25504174-5001021,00.html)

The "intelligent speed adaptation" devices put a trip between the accelerator and the engine and link it to a GPS system that has every NSW speed zone programmed into it.

The device sounds a warning if the driver exceeds the speed limit. If the driver fails to slow down the system cuts power from the accelerator, capping it at the maximum limit.

In cases of emergency there is an override system whereby the driver can either flick a switch or floor the accelerator to disable the safety device and put the car back in manual control.

It can even be programmed to accommodate school zones, which change speed limits depending on the time of day.

Forty of the devices are having trials in the Illawarra plus another 60 similar units that warn when the speed limit is being breached but do not physically override the driver.

Roads Minister Michael Daley said the devices could one day become standard in all new cars.

"It may be that ISA could become a safety device offered by car manufacturers similar to the way air bags and ABS brakes have become safety features in the car industry," he said.

"We believe this technology could have the potential to save lives which is why we're carrying out this very important trial. The technology could also help motorists avoid speeding fines.

"Speeding is the biggest killer on our roads, responsible for over 150 deaths on our roads last year.

"ISA technology uses satellites and in-car technology to help motorists stay within the speed limit."

The head of the RTA's ISA project John Wall said that while it was early days, the agency hoped that if the trial was successful the devices could be applied ot all new vehicles.

"If we did find it was effective we'd like to see manufacturers make it available in vehicles," Mr Wall said

The RTA, which has spent five years mapping out the speed limits, has just put out a tender for the supply of the devices and 100 private and public vehicles are being recruited for the trial.

[ChrisMaz]

I'm sure someone will find a way to hack it :D

[GreyRex]

I don't know much about the law, but i'd think there'd be too many instances where this wouldn't work..

Too many variables...

[sooty]

"Speeding is the biggest killer on our roads, responsible for over 150 deaths on our roads last year.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish....

[noobie]

This is a tricky one.

I've had legitimate reasons where if i had a limiter installed i would have been completely wiped off the map by a semi trailer merging me into a concrete barricade.

My only option was to floor it ahead of him.

However, i wouldn't mind one i could switch on in the city so i don't get a ticket like i did last week for doing 53km/h in a 50km/h zone.

Excessive speed by inexperienced drivers does indeed cause a high number of fatal accidents. So i tend to agree that it is not "speeding" per se, but a combination of factors.

[J]

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish....

Depends on how they define "speeding" I guess...

Put it this way: in order to have a crash, you need to be moving, regardless of whether you are going at 1km/h or 1,000km/h. Moving = speed, so technically...you get the idea.

It's crazy, I know...

[sooty]

I've had legitimate reasons where if i had a limiter installed i would have been completely wiped off the map by a semi trailer merging me into a concrete barricade.

My only option was to floor it ahead of him.



In cases of emergency there is an override system whereby the driver can either flick a switch or floor the accelerator to disable the safety device and put the car back in manual control.



Sounds like it would apparently still disable if you floored it, but would you really trust it?...and doesn't this just mean people who want to speed could just floor it all the time anyway? :lol:

[sooty]

Depends on how they define "speeding" I guess...

Put it this way: in order to have a crash, you need to be moving, regardless of whether you are going at 1km/h or 1,000km/h. Moving = speed, so technically...you get the idea.

It's crazy, I know...

lol....ever thought of a career in politics? :p
Maybe they classify speeding as a cause as everyone's so paranoid about being caught speeding they spend more time watching the speedo than they do watching the road, and actually driving, so everyone has accidents..

[noobie]

Sounds like it would apparently still disable if you floored it, but would you really trust it?...and doesn't this just mean people who want to speed could just floor it all the time anyway? :lol:


Ahh, didn't read that, but it would need to be instant for my liking.

Like I said, i could and WOULD use it in the city, or even on my way to work - cameras everywhere!!

Oh side note, anyone noticed that they are setting the cameras up on tripods now and sitting around the corner from them?

[GreyRex]

I'm off to Germany...

[GodsKnight]

Forty of the devices are having trials in the Illawarra plus another 60 similar units that warn when the speed limit is being breached but do not physically override the driver.

they had these installed in the 90's on my dads VS Acclaim had a speed warning if you set it...i guess this one is fancy and has a preset GPS system..still it sounds like its brand new never thought of tech...



they had these installed in the 90's on my dads VS Acclaim had a speed warning if you set it...i guess this one is fancy and has a preset GPS system..still it sounds like its brand new never thought of tech...

I'm all for a system that tries to prevent speeding specially for young drivers...but its a fine line between stopping them speeding and taking away the necessity to put your foot down to avoid danger...its a tough one...

I can't help but imagine a car chase in a movie but both cars are limited to 60/km...terrible image!!!

[Shay]

gps isnt that great yet,

can you imagine driving on a long country road bein limitted no matter where you put you foot,

making the driver do less is not the answer, the less aware and focussed the driver the more likely they are to fall asleep, hit a roo/emu, hit someone sleeping on the road (dont laugh, unfortunately ive seen it happen), or just run off the road while trying to watch a DVD or something...

compared to most other states, im pretty sure NT has had the least country hiway crashes, well at least im pretty sure they did before they put a speed limit on all roads, an aware driver is a safe driver, you cant be fully aware without being fully in control.

goes back to driver training,

Not starting that again.

SHAY RANT FIN...

[rjastra]

compared to most other states, im pretty sure NT has had the least country hiway crashes, well at least im pretty sure they did before they put a speed limit on all roads, an aware driver is a safe driver, you cant be fully aware without being fully in control.

I am pretty sure you are wrong... they have fatality rate much higher than any other state.

[GodsKnight]

gps isnt that great yet,

goes back to driver training,

SHAY RANT FIN...

still not convinced you can justify speeding above the limit thought and say its safe..no matter how good you/think you are at driving

[Shay]

they had these installed in the 90's on my dads VS Acclaim had a speed warning if you set it...i guess this one is fancy and has a preset GPS system..still it sounds like its brand new never thought of tech...

I'm all for a system that tries to prevent speeding specially for young drivers...but its a fine line between stopping them speeding and taking away the necessity to put your foot down to avoid danger...its a tough one...

I can't help but imagine a car chase in a movie but both cars are limited to 60/km...terrible image!!!

you forget, cops wont have these...

gov will probably start testin cop controlled killswitches soon,
or cop remote control overrides, wouldnt even have to turn on their lights, just pull you over on their own

[Shay]

I am pretty sure you are wrong... they have fatality rate much higher than any other state.

cause by?

[Shay]

still not convinced you can justify speeding above the limit thought and say its safe..no matter how good you/think you are at driving

not saying goin over a limit is neccesarily safe, especially when not everyone goes the same speed. an some roads, 90 mile road for example, is made less safe cos of speed limits IMO

[Shay]

quote from another forum


I was looking these up for use in another argument. It makes an interesting counter-argument to the whole "speed kills" grab for cash campaign.

The limits were introduced in January 2007.
Deaths by year:
2006: 44
2007: 57
2008: 75

The 5 year trend shows an 8.2% increase in road fatalities.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...f/rda_0309.pdf
(Some interesting statistics in that PDF. Check the age breakdowns. P-platers dying or media/Government spin?)

[gman]

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish....


Depends on how they define "speeding" I guess...

Put it this way: in order to have a crash, you need to be moving, regardless of whether you are going at 1km/h or 1,000km/h. Moving = speed, so technically...you get the idea.

It's crazy, I know...

Speeding Kills is such a load of horse sh*t!!!!!!

Speeding is an easy cop out for a lazy bureaucracy that is too afraid to face up to the real issue that kills people on Australian roads:

POOR DRIVER TRAINING AND POOR DRIVER SKILLS

This will not get off the ground for a good many years. Speeding in built up areas, schools etc is incredibly irresponsible.

However, the figures (as above in Shay's post) show, deaths are increasing. Speed limits are coming down yet deaths are going up...If speed is the devil incarnate, go figure???

Driver frustration and poor driver skills are the biggest killers on the road. Other societies can live with higher speeds and people are not dying in droves...The US dropped national highway limits and deaths went up. They increased them and they went down. Another big country with lots of cars.

If the govt drop speeding fines they will loose revenue (not likely). If they train drivers (in schools as they should) then it costs money. They won;t be able to fund their extra-parlimentary trips, huge super and free meals if they do it the right way.

So now they can justify huge police budgets on the number of speeding convictions. Police should be stopping crimes AND get more funding, not enforcing ridiculous speed limits whilst public safety is secondary. I was in Sydney last week and George St Sydney at 1am isn't a "friendly" place anymore.

A device to stop speeding is another very poor reflection on society, Australian government (and the population if they allow it) that they don;t want to be responsible for their own actions.

I can see the lawyers rubbing their hands. Cases of "the system should have stopped me speeding" or "I couldn't get out of the way as the system stopped my car accelerating" will have the courts tied up for years. The only ones who will be better off will be the lawyers and people will still die needlessly.

Add to this the cost to fit to cars etc...It's really simple, if you drive do it responsibly and people should take responsibility for their own actions...

Its all about civil liberties...I want the choice to sit in my car and know that it can do 200kph if I need or want to. Its not up to a government to wrap me in cotton wool and protect me from myself. If I choose to be an anti social member of society, then i have to deal with the consequences.

Viva la revolution!!!!!!! ;)

[Neeko]

couldnt agree more with you glen!!
its like becoming a slave to the law everytime your behind the wheel now.

[noobie]

Its not up to a government to wrap me in cotton wool and protect me from myself. If I choose to be an anti social member of society, then i have to deal with the consequences.

Viva la revolution!!!!!!! ;)


Agree with pretty much everything except this bit. They ain't protecting you from yourself, they're trying to protect everyone else from you. :p

[Keep'emRunning]

..and it will still let you run a red light, just at the legal speed :)

[EL BURITO]

I don't want that shit in my car

[Shay]

it does say only NEW cars...

imagine trying to put this on a non fly by wire. :lol:
we all know if this comes in, the next step will be the cops using it as proof that you were speeding

[GodsKnight]

lol @ gman i can just picture you fuming as you wrote that! haha classic good points though...i fully endorse the advanced driver training did it myself it's a must IMO.

[Hoya]

who wants to join me and live in germany

[GodsKnight]

who wants to join me and live in germany

i wouldnt mind going on the Bundesautobah

[gman]

Agree with pretty much everything except this bit. They ain't protecting you from yourself, they're trying to protect everyone else from you. :p

Well, some peopel need protecting from me I would say.. :p

But seriously, how much protecting do they do at the moment would be my response??? If I am the worst thing out there then lock me you and throw away the key. Simply stopping people going 65 in a 60 zone at 3am on a 6 lane road its really helping anyone. People should not need government intervention to force them to do things. It is up the the individual to exercise some self control and abide by the laws of the land they live in or live with the consequences if they don't.

IMHO the simple answer is society as a whole needs to understand a few things:

1: People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions again;
2: You can't regulate, eliminate, contract away, legislate or otherwise remove all risks from a population by passing laws (people just aren't built that way);
3: If you choose to be a member of a society, live in a particular country, then follow the rules or live with the consequences if you don't;
4: It is the responsibility of the population to ensure that a government doesn't regulate/remove/encumber the rights of the individual to such a degree where the population has no freedoms.

Government is about the will of the people, not the wants of the few.

I for one am sick of politicians telling me what I can and cannot do when the effect has no bearing on the general populace just because a useless few want to write off their individuality and claim "no fault" for everything that happens. Political correctness gone wrong, again...

Blaming speed for killing people on the roads is like blaming a spoon for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.

She did it to her self, sure she used the spoon but it wasn't the spoons fault.

Same with speed. If you speed, you did it, it's not the cars fault.

[Hoya]

you speed police pull you over

"hello sir do you know how fast you where going before"
nope i was to busy contrasting on the road to notice my speed.

i heard/read that somewhere, id love to hear someone use it!

[Neeko]

who wants to join me and live in germany

spent 12 years there :p

i wouldnt mind going on the Bundesautobah

its amazing

[Calibrated]

I am pretty sure you are wrong... they have fatality rate much higher than any other state.
caused by speeding, or by kangaroo's or drunken abbo's in the road?

[GodsKnight]

caused by speeding, or by kangaroo's or drunken abbo's in the road?

not much else out there..

[gman]

I am pretty sure you are wrong... they have fatality rate much higher than any other state.

Thats a very wide and sweeping statement. So how did you actually figure that???

Fatalities per capita/per road user/per km of road???

Additional to the above, you comment is also total crap, so sorry but you are very wrong.

The last publicly available statistics which are 2007 from the Australian Federal Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government show for 2007:

NSW - 444
QLD – 378
VIC – 318
WA - 230
SA – 108
TAS – 54
NT – 49
ACT - 17

As you can see, NT is sort of near the bottom. Maybe check facts first before posting....

[GodsKnight]

Thats a very wide and sweeping statement. So how did you actually figure that???

Fatalities per capita/per road user/per km of road???

Additional to the above, you comment is also total crap, so sorry but you are very wrong.

The last publicly available statistics which are 2007 from the Australian Federal Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government show for 2007:

NSW - 444
QLD – 378
VIC – 318
SA – 108
TAS – 54
NT – 49
ACT - 17

As you can see, NT is sort of near the bottom. Maybe check facts first before posting....

least NSW can win something :(

[Shay]

least NSW can win something :(

and as usual, WA isnt counted as part of the country...

[GodsKnight]

and as usual, WA isnt counted as part of the country...

LOL that award normally goes to TAS..trust me I know WA exist my other half is there :)

[gman]

Certainly not the race to win..

However, remember that NSW currently Australia's most populace state with approx. 33% of the population (followed by Vic 25% and Qld with 20%)...

And of all those people, over 60% live in the greater Sydney Metro area too apparently...

Sorry to the Sandgropers, I missed them.. They managed 230 fatalities for 2007...

[gman]

I just found Year to date figures too... Jan 09 to Apr 09 (un-audited however from the Australian Federal Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government )

NSW - 157 / QLD - 122 / Vic - 109 / WA - 68 / SA - 40 / Tas - 27 / NT - 6 / ACT - 5

NT is still very much at the bottom of the ladder

[tomtom]

This should stop all the illegal street racing... thats past 60.

lol.

Just because you drive the speed limit, don't mean you aint driving DUMB.

As everyones said, and I'll reiterate since i have no real ideas to add, it comes down to driver stupidity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd rather a person who is driving 100% AWARE and focused through a school zone @ 90 than I would a dumb bitch (bitch in a generic sense, not female based) going 35 but weaving in and out of lanes as shes trying to put on her dumb make up and on the fone (oops... but this is a recount so...).

The government seem to be stuck in this idea that road fatalities are related to street racing, buuut from that street racing segment on Today Tonight I watched a while back, they showed the hoons drag racing... at an empty location.

They had walkies, look outs for public as well as proper group organisation for each run. They're being RESPONSIBLE and SMART. If they die during the run via tree, thats a shame it was their choice. If they kill a passer by during the run, well thats just luck of the draw and we CANNOT CHANGE FATE.

People who are car enthusiasts or are pron to hooning will usually be the poeple who CARE most about both their cars and their skills. Sure enough there are those who over reach (because they're retarded) but this willl happen no matter what you do. A guy could overshoot his ability in the bar when trying to get some ass, and a girl might overshoot her multi-tasking abilities and CRASH INTO A ****ING TREE ALONG WITH KILLING 3 CHILDREN SHE SWIPED.

I know that when I drive i pay attention to the way I turn, teh way i throttle, brake, and just a general sense of the car's being ad soul. This attention multiplies 10 fold if I'm doing any sort of spirited driving (balbala dont judge me you all do it).

It's like walking - you dont walk into shit...so dont DRIVE into shit. PAY ATTENTION or at least be good enough at it that it become second nature.

Theres a difference between HOONING and WRECKLESS HOONING.

Everytime i approach any intersection or just driving along, I expect the poeple next to me to hard brake, or to jab into my lane and I'm prepared to do something if it happens. At roundabouts, I expect the dumb bitch to come out as I'm about to pass... what i DONT expect is that she'll panic and stop in the MIDDLE OF THE ROUNDABOUT and wave at me. WTF? You kidding? get the **** out of the way you idiot **** you already jumped out might as wel go now i have to STOP AND BLOCK TRAFFIC DUMB BLONDE GET OFF YOUR PHONE I HATE YOU.

**Im using the term "Hoon" and "Hooning" to refer to people who like to go fast in cars and teh action of doing so. ***

[DEE-80Y]

Blaming speed for killing people on the roads is like blaming a spoon for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.

She did it to her self, sure she used the spoon but it wasn't the spoons fault.




Bwahahahaha. :D

[DEE-80Y]

I can't see a system being put in place that has NO override switch. If the government implamented (spelling) that, they would almost cut off there own head when it comes to income revenue from speeding tickets.

How much $$$ does the state and gov make due to hoons and the like speeding and being caught by camera or officer?

Now really isn't the time for losing money when we are currently in debt.

Can't see it happening.

Bloody do good'ers, go jump in an ocean and save a drowning fish and leave people alone to make mistakes, suffer the consiquences and take responsibility for there own actions.

[GodsKnight]

How much $$$ does the state and gov make due to hoons and the like speeding and being caught by camera or officer?

.

Apparently its around $85 Million..don't see much of that money...

[poita]

There is quite a lot to read, so what I'm about to say has probably been brought up already.
I have ranted about this before, I accept it's a rant. But I personally feel it's the better option.

Why don't they train people how to handle a car at higher speeds.
Instead of booking people for doing 3km/hr over the limit teach people what to do when a dog runs out, when the arse comes out on a wet corner.
People with no education are idiots, but people with even a little bit of knowledge can save them selves.
I won't go on because it will become an epic rant post.

So in summary, defensive driver courses and educating people how to drive will save more lives than this bullshit speed limiter.

btw - it wont stop how quickly you get to 100km/hr now will it ;)

[Hoya]

This should stop all the illegal street racing... thats past 60.

lol.

Just because you drive the speed limit, don't mean you aint driving DUMB.

As everyones said, and I'll reiterate since i have no real ideas to add, it comes down to driver stupidity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd rather a person who is driving 100% AWARE and focused through a school zone @ 90 than I would a dumb bitch (bitch in a generic sense, not female based) going 35 but weaving in and out of lanes as shes trying to put on her dumb make up and on the fone (oops... but this is a recount so...).

The government seem to be stuck in this idea that road fatalities are related to street racing, buuut from that street racing segment on Today Tonight I watched a while back, they showed the hoons drag racing... at an empty location.

They had walkies, look outs for public as well as proper group organisation for each run. They're being RESPONSIBLE and SMART. If they die during the run via tree, thats a shame it was their choice. If they kill a passer by during the run, well thats just luck of the draw and we CANNOT CHANGE FATE.

People who are car enthusiasts or are pron to hooning will usually be the poeple who CARE most about both their cars and their skills. Sure enough there are those who over reach (because they're retarded) but this willl happen no matter what you do. A guy could overshoot his ability in the bar when trying to get some ass, and a girl might overshoot her multi-tasking abilities and CRASH INTO A ****ING TREE ALONG WITH KILLING 3 CHILDREN SHE SWIPED.

I know that when I drive i pay attention to the way I turn, teh way i throttle, brake, and just a general sense of the car's being ad soul. This attention multiplies 10 fold if I'm doing any sort of spirited driving (balbala dont judge me you all do it).

It's like walking - you dont walk into shit...so dont DRIVE into shit. PAY ATTENTION or at least be good enough at it that it become second nature.

Theres a difference between HOONING and WRECKLESS HOONING.

Everytime i approach any intersection or just driving along, I expect the poeple next to me to hard brake, or to jab into my lane and I'm prepared to do something if it happens. At roundabouts, I expect the dumb bitch to come out as I'm about to pass... what i DONT expect is that she'll panic and stop in the MIDDLE OF THE ROUNDABOUT and wave at me. WTF? You kidding? get the **** out of the way you idiot **** you already jumped out might as wel go now i have to STOP AND BLOCK TRAFFIC DUMB BLONDE GET OFF YOUR PHONE I HATE YOU.

**Im using the term "Hoon" and "Hooning" to refer to people who like to go fast in cars and teh action of doing so. ***

arnt you the hoon who boxed in a starlet?
boxed it in cos you couldnt let it win over your sri

[Shay]

arnt you the hoon who boxed in a starlet?
boxed it in cos you couldnt let it win over your sri

dont start that, thats not this topic.

[gman]

There is quite a lot to read, so what I'm about to say has probably been brought up already.
I have ranted about this before, I accept it's a rant. But I personally feel it's the better option.

Why don't they train people how to handle a car at higher speeds.
Instead of booking people for doing 3km/hr over the limit teach people what to do when a dog runs out, when the arse comes out on a wet corner.
People with no education are idiots, but people with even a little bit of knowledge can save them selves.
I won't go on because it will become an epic rant post.

So in summary, defensive driver courses and educating people how to drive will save more lives than this bullshit speed limiter.

btw - it wont stop how quickly you get to 100km/hr now will it ;)

100% agree and what I have been saying here and since I was 15 Y.O and started driving.

I was driving cars at 8 on the farm and circuit (rally, tarmac and go-karts).
I failed my first "P" plate test because i was, quote "Too confident and seemed overly competent so must be hiding something."

Driver training is what will stop people killing each other on the roads. Nothing else short of banning cars will make an impact.

[tomtom]

dont start that, thats not this topic.

+1 lets stay on topic..

For the record, i was the self-righteous motorist, not a "hoon" considering i did not speed.

My goodness to humanity is so great that I glow occasionally.



quote "Too confident and seemed overly competent so must be hiding something."


that happens to me too with girls. "Youre too amazing I don't buy it. Too sus bye."

:(

... you think that was a joke...AND IT WAS :D!!

[ToeCutter]

Build a better moustrap...

[Nurb608]

Stupid!

There is no way this is going to save lives, it will inevitably cause more death.

I don't even trust a computer to save me at work let alone on the road. Can already see the TAC part of our rego skyrocket if this came in to effect (Victoria any way).

If there are idiot drivers, no worries, fine them. If there are sensible drivers who like to have some fun every now and them, fine them too, i'm one of them and I know the risks. But for any government to take my life into their hands, well, the mods would have to sensor the crap out of about 4 pages so i'll leave it there.

[tomtom]

If there are idiot drivers, no worries, fine them. If there are sensible drivers who like to have some fun every now and them, fine them too, i'm one of them and I know the risks.

Coudlnt have said it beter myself.

[DEE-80Y]

Stupid!

I don't even trust a computer to save me at work let alone on the road.





If Microsoft Built Cars
Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car.
Occasionally your car would just die on the highway for no reason. Accept this, restart and drive on.
Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause the car to stop and fail to restart. You'd have to re-install the engine. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this too.
You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought "Car 95" or "Car NT". But then you'd have to buy more seats.
Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was twice as reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive - but it would only run on five percent of the roads.
The oil, engine, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced with a single "General Car Fault" light.
People would get excited about "new" features in Microsoft cars, forgetting completely that they had been available in other cars for years.
We'd all have to switch to Microsoft gas and auto fluids.
New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
The airbag system would say, "Are you sure?" before going off.
If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
Microsoft wouldn't build their own engines, but form a cartel with their engine suppliers. The engine would be a side-valve design so you could still use Model T Ford parts on it.
Microsoft cars would have a special radio/cassette player which would only be able to listen to Microsoft FM and play Microsoft cassettes.
Microsoft would do well, because even though they don't own any roads, all road manufacturers would give away Microsoft cars for free!
If you couldn't afford to buy a new car, you could borrow your friend's and copy it.
Whenever you bought a car, you would have to reorganize the ignition a few days until it worked.
You would need an upgrade to run cars on a highway next to each other.

[Peety117]

gps isnt that great yet

I don't think the GPS's they would use will get any better than most handhelds/car navigation GPS's that are currently offered, IMO. Differential GPS is very accurate (2-5mm), but you need base stations set up every 5km for it to work.


Some of these 'safety' features really dumbifiys drivers. I dont think it will be passed through, the Govt will loose a substancial amout of revenue from speeding fines.

[KingOfAstras]

Speed limiters will not help save lives, just make people think it will. Fear while driving makes you cautious, if you have no fear while driving - Accidents will happen. So if everyone is that more fearful on the road, either they don't drive at all, or they remember what their actions can cause and just be careful, i.e. staying under the limit, checking blind-spots before merging, etc.

Not everyone is a born driver.

[mania]

I bet it'll log when you whenever it's overridden. Just think about that for a moment.

If it is introduced though - I'm not sure if it'll make roads safer or not. I'm not sure if I'm safer driving on cruise control, or with my foot on the accelerator - I'm definitely more alert actively driving. This could be essentially that but in all scenarios, suburban roads, school zones, etc. I guess though I wouldn't mind everyone else having the device... least til someone absent mindedly plows into the back of me at 50kmh.

Still, I'm sure a lot of people will think it'll save lifes after seeing all those horrendous government ads where they crash two cars, one doing a few km more then the other, and draw conclusions. While leaving the car type, weather, driver, and all other conditions identical - any of which would have a larger difference then the 3kmh (or thereabouts - I forget) speed difference. Makes me sick that people think of ads, especially government ones, so uncritically. :(

[AH08]

I don't think the GPS's they would use will get any better than most handhelds/car navigation GPS's that are currently offered, IMO. Differential GPS is very accurate (2-5mm), but you need base stations set up every 5km for it to work.


Some of these 'safety' features really dumbifiys drivers. I dont think it will be passed through, the Govt will loose a substancial amout of revenue from speeding fines.

Don't think they would rely on GPS's http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/19/gps-close-to-breakdown

[rjastra]

Thats a very wide and sweeping statement. So how did you actually figure that???

Fatalities per capita/per road user/per km of road???

Additional to the above, you comment is also total crap, so sorry but you are very wrong.

The last publicly available statistics which are 2007 from the Australian Federal Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government show for 2007:

NSW - 444
QLD – 378
VIC – 318
WA - 230
SA – 108
TAS – 54
NT – 49
ACT - 17

As you can see, NT is sort of near the bottom. Maybe check facts first before posting....

Are you a fool? whats the population of the NT? Just over 200,000. Population of NSW = Close to 7 million. So, what's that? About 30 times the population?

49 x 30 (adjustment for population) = approx 1500 deaths on a population adjusted basis.

Doesn't look so good against NSW fatality rate of 444 does it?

Now, as for the USA and the lift of speed limits. We are talking about an increase of a highway/freeway limit from 55mph (about 90km/h) to on average 70mph (110 km/h). So, all they have done is match our freeway speed limit.

[mania]

You're right rjastra - but the problem is politicians make all the same mistakes. They'll likely take the road deaths per capita statistic and instantly blame them all on speed or p platers, without performing any further studies to see if it's perhaps drink driving, long distance driving, or bad road/intersection design.

[cdti]

I think the whole awareness thing is the key. There are a great number more automatic vehicles out there and people use the excuse of driving being getting from A to B, and not wanting to have to think of what gear they need to be in etc. I think it is all leading to a less aware of their surrounds type of thing.

I know when I drive auto work cars, I get lazy, use one hand on the wheel and the like, but driving my cars, I keep myself alert.

Speeding definitely does increase the severity of crashes, obviously. I do believe the 5km/h makes a difference to your stopping distance, but I also believe that I need to keep my distance from the car in front that most people don't seem to do too. There are an awful lot of front to rear crashes that just don't need to happen. Why is it that we wait until the car in front has braked before we start to, when we could see what they are braking for too. I'm amazed at the amount of times I brake before the car in front of me when I see a traffic light change - go figure...

[gman]

Are you a fool? whats the population of the NT? Just over 200,000. Population of NSW = Close to 7 million. So, what's that? About 30 times the population?

49 x 30 (adjustment for population) = approx 1500 deaths on a population adjusted basis.

Doesn't look so good against NSW fatality rate of 444 does it?

Now, as for the USA and the lift of speed limits. We are talking about an increase of a highway/freeway limit from 55mph (about 90km/h) to on average 70mph (110 km/h). So, all they have done is match our freeway speed limit.

Wow, simple minded much?!?!?

On a per head basis in a small population, a relative number is going to look exaggerated..That's simple statistics...49 people in a population density of 200,000 given the demographic and population density is a good number.

Your response is exactly why I asked the question, "how do you figure that?" And you did exactly the simple equation that the powers that be rely on as a shock tactic.


You're right rjastra - but the problem is politicians make all the same mistakes. They'll likely take the road deaths per capita statistic and instantly blame them all on speed or p platers, without performing any further studies to see if it's perhaps drink driving, long distance driving, or bad road/intersection design.

Exactly, they make the exact same "mistake" because it suit their purpose. So lets look at this from another point of view.

Take into account the relative population densities, kilometers of road, average distances traveled per head of population, numbers of cars per kilometer of road and causes of the accidents that result in fatalities.

Of the 49 killed in NT, most were attributable to what...Speed????? Nope and that's what is being discussed here...

So what are the top three in NT according to government statistics?

1: Alcohol and drug use
2: Tiredness and sleep deprivation
3: Mis-adventure including animal collisions, mechanical failure, poor road quality etc

If you take into account the distances they actually travel, the densities of the populations the NT isn't a bad place to drive. I would rather drive on a road in the NT then NSW. Statistically you have a better chance of surviving...

On the US raising of the speed limits, you re-emphasised my point precisly. They raised the limits to a similar level to ours, deaths reduced. Point proved. There is a direct correlation between the two.

In Nevada and Montana they did a survey of vehicles travelling on the highways and found that over 80% of average motorists in certain areas were travelling in excess of the speed limits by 10% to 15%. This is where most motorist said they felt most comfortable driving and pay the most attention to the job at hand. It was the 80% rule that led to the raising of the natinoal highway limit.

In those areas where this was so, there were also fewer accidents. People asked why?

The study found people were less frustrated, concentrated more on driving and spent less time actually on the roads, hence the fall in accidents and fatalities.

Fatigue and lack of concentration in Australia and especially in the US where the roads are long, straight, featureless ribbons of concrete, kill more people than speed.

I always ask the question, 110kph has been the national Australian limits since I can remember.

So, how can it be comparable for a 1971 XB Falcon to be "safe" doing 110kph then as it is for a 2009 XR6 Falcon to only be safe doing 110kph now??? God forbid you might do 115kph in your XR6, you'll kill everyone!!!

Even worse, they have lowered the speed limits to 90kph in some areas where 100 or 110kph was perfectly acceptable even 20 years ago when I was driving in moderately modern cars....

The car is infinitely better, so what makes anything above 110kph in a new car so dangerous given the better machinery?

[mania]

Well said.

[Shay]

:clap: exactly right glen.

[Vectracious]

Gman for PM. :D

[Shay]

Gman for PM. :D

well hes probably in australia more than our current one,
and yes im aware of how much time gman spends in HK

[Neeko]

Glen07 does have a thing to it.

no really well said, spot on there.
we should copy this thread and let it be heard!

[poita]

Glen10 - Kills half as many germs ;)

[Shay]

Glen10 - Kills half as many germs ;)

glen11, kills more than half as many germs, better for advertising ;)
plus thats when we'll next have to vote.

[ASTRAY]

whilst driving to qld last month, i had loads of experiences where the road limit was say 100, but the gps was saying 80.
and even if you are driving south to north in a straight line, you will get a warning about a school zone 450m to the east or west...

gps road speed limits are very unreliable, too unreliable to be in control of what speed you should be doing, or shouldnt be doing.

[hazrd]

whilst driving to qld last month, i had loads of experiences where the road limit was say 100, but the gps was saying 80.
and even if you are driving south to north in a straight line, you will get a warning about a school zone 450m to the east or west...

gps road speed limits are very unreliable, too unreliable to be in control of what speed you should be doing, or shouldnt be doing.


was waiting for someone to say this... my tomtom is the same... how many pissed off drivers would there be going through a 100 zone and being stuck at 70 lol

[Neeko]

whilst driving to qld last month, i had loads of experiences where the road limit was say 100, but the gps was saying 80.
and even if you are driving south to north in a straight line, you will get a warning about a school zone 450m to the east or west...

gps road speed limits are very unreliable, too unreliable to be in control of what speed you should be doing, or shouldnt be doing.

i'd say we're still a fair while away before speed limits in GPS systems will reliable enough to know exactly what zone your in. Especially with the endless roadworks around.

[poita]

yer defin agree with that.

they would have to do a major upgrade on gps speed zones before this could be implimented.

on a freeway doing 110, and there is a road running next to it with a school zone.
keeps saying its a 40 zone, still a few hiccups in the system

[Shay]

whilst driving to qld last month, i had loads of experiences where the road limit was say 100, but the gps was saying 80.
and even if you are driving south to north in a straight line, you will get a warning about a school zone 450m to the east or west...

gps road speed limits are very unreliable, too unreliable to be in control of what speed you should be doing, or shouldnt be doing.

you can change that....
mine gives me 50m notice

[ASTRAY]

you can change that....
mine gives me 50m notice
yeah but when i am geniumely approaching a school zone, i want to know as early as possible.
50m is about the distance they erect the school zone signs, i like to know before then.

[glider]

gps road speed limits are very unreliable, too unreliable to be in control of what speed you should be doing, or shouldnt be doing.

the issue is not the GPS unit, but rather the map software on the unit, when they release a map every year or two, speed limits can change in those times... you would assume there would be some sort of method of updating the system to keep speed limits current...

as for gps speed readout, if they used a high speed system it would not be so bad. I'm going to guess most GPS units use a 1hz reciever (1 update per second). last year I got a 5hz receiver for my car pc, and being 5 updates per second, it is much more instantaneous with the speed changes, making it more accurate when acclerating and decelearting. Yes 5hz still isnt that accurate, but its an improvement from 1hz...