Oil Additives - Who uses them?

[NXA-16H]

Ok folks

For a couple of weeks now, I have taken rather a shine to a range of oil and/or fuel supplements manufactured by a German firm by the name of Liqui-Moly. (http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/index.htm)
http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:8LMmW7OeW9Q_oM:http://www.liquimoly-direct.co.uk/userimages/LiquiMoly.JPG

Specifically, I intend to keep the interior workings of all of my vehicles' engines as clean and fault-free as possible. Those vehicles include a pair of XC-Barinas, a TT-Zafira and an old Citroën.

So far, I have used this product called "Engine-Flush Plus" upon changing the oil. Now it's purpose is to loosen and remove years of built-up sludge, lacquer etc from all of the moving internal parts, and flush it out upon draining the old oil.

I used it last week on the Zafira, and I must say it's pretty good stuff.

Is there anyone else here who is prepared to use it on their vehicles, including high-mileage vehicles such as an old Citroën CX???

What's your take? Best practice? Foolhardiness? Dunno?

Do tell.

NXR-94N

[Shay]

i use the liquimoly injector claeaner (got about an extra 50 km per tank)
and a liquimoly oil additive, cant remember the exact one but it says for high load/ high throttle applications, and i figured i go pretty hard so thought id give it a go.
havent noticed a difference as such but hopefully its protecting my head components a bit better,'

liquimaly is good stuff,'
much better than the nulon and wynns we also stock at SCA, and it is really competitive in price too

[rjastra]

I reckon a good quality synth/semi synth oil is a better bet in the long run.

PULP and 98RON have plenty of detergents in them to keep the fuel system clean

[lee683]

yeah and as long as u change ur oil on a regular bases u should have to much of a problem.
and dont use cheap oil

[CNBLU]

Sometimes using an oil additive in a good oil can turn it into shit. Grab yourself a top shelf oil and you wont need any additives.

[gslrallysport]

Grab yourself a top shelf oil and you wont need any additives.
The difference between a cheap oil, and a top shelf oil IS is the additives... base oils are all the same.

The stuff that we use, recommend and swear by:
http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10780

[rjastra]

The difference between a cheap oil, and a top shelf oil IS is the additives... base oils are all the same.


I will call you on that one at it is basically untrue

[poita]

*grabs popcorn*

this should be good

[gslrallysport]

I will call you on that one at it is basically untrue
I'm not for one second claiming that the level of oil refinement doesn't affect the quality of the finished product, but additives added after the base oil is processed such as zinc dithiophosphates (basically combinations of zinc, phosphorous, and sulphour molecules) is what separates an average oil, from a high performance one.

And I'm also not saying that OEM oil additives are the same as all aftermarket ones, in fact quite the opposite. Most aftermarket oil additives simply use the oil as a carrier for friction reducing coating materials such as graphite, teflon and some molys, all of which I would personally stay away from... The only aftermarket oil additive I trust is the one I linked above...


I reckon a good quality synth/semi synth oil is a better bet in the long run
Think you've shot yourself in the foot there a little mate... Group I, II, II+ and III type mineral base oil stocks are widely used in combination with additive packages, performance packages, ester and/or Group IV polyalphaolefins in order to formulate semi-synthetic based lubricants... Additives is what seperates a Semi-Syntheic from a 100% mineral based oil.

[HappySlapper82]

if you have an older engine, find yourself a Promar rep and buy some MBL8.

[Keep'emRunning]

..trying not to be sceptical, but in uni (mech engineering) we got offtopic once and discussed coatings with a lecturer who taught metallurgy.

From what I remember he said there were distinct benefits from friction additives, but the widely accepted view that they can form a coating of sufficient thickness to prevent further wear was nonsensical. Typical metals used in pistons/liners/shell bearings have extremely fine grain that any molecules in solution would have a hard time both physically and chemically bonding to, and would more than likely be mechanically removed by the large unfiltered particulates already suspended in the oil.

On the upside, any additive that will assist in cleaning and removing deposits can't all be bad, as long as it doesn't reduce the oils friction coefficient & pressure rating.

And taking that info into account, it's possible that the amazing claims that someone has suddenly got an extra xxx miles per gallon from an old engine by using an additive has probably just experienced the unclogging of an blocked oil gallery, or the oil reaching areas that were previously sludged up.

But how is anyone to know that it may actually be causing more wear in the short term because the oil is now not forming a thick enough film to completely lubricate the surfaces.

IMO though, if it seems to work for you, then by all means keep using it...

[Shay]

..trying not to be sceptical, but in uni (mech engineering) we got offtopic once and discussed coatings with a lecturer who taught metallurgy.

From what I remember he said there were distinct benefits from friction additives, but the widely accepted view that they can form a coating of sufficient thickness to prevent further wear was nonsensical. Typical metals used in pistons/liners/shell bearings have extremely fine grain that any molecules in solution would have a hard time both physically and chemically bonding to, and would more than likely be mechanically removed by the large unfiltered particulates already suspended in the oil.

On the upside, any additive that will assist in cleaning and removing deposits can't all be bad, as long as it doesn't reduce the oils friction coefficient & pressure rating.

And taking that info into account, it's possible that the amazing claims that someone has suddenly got an extra xxx miles per gallon from an old engine by using an additive has probably just experienced the unclogging of an blocked oil gallery, or the oil reaching areas that were previously sludged up.

But how is anyone to know that it may actually be causing more wear in the short term because the oil is now not forming a thick enough film to completely lubricate the surfaces.

IMO though, if it seems to work for you, then by all means keep using it...

if your referring to me,
i said it was a fuel additive injector cleaner, so yes it would/did make a difference,after runnin around on low RON fuel for 10 years before i got it

[Keep'emRunning]

if your referring to me,
i said it was a fuel additive injector cleaner, so yes it would/did make a difference,after runnin around on low RON fuel for 10 years before i got it

haha not at all Shay, was referring to all those marketing websites selling everything from moth balls to peanut butter as fuel/oil additives ;)

Mind you, what we were told was over 10 years ago, so things have probably changed a bit..

[NXA-16H]

You know it's funny;

Several days ago I took the liberty of posting the same thread question up on another automotive forum which I subscribe to, ie AussieFrogs (http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php)

And whilst the responses were still mixed, there was actually a higher ratio against additive usage, to those members who were supportive of it.

Below are some quotes from members who have responded thus far:


From my readings here I think the feel is not good in older engines, tends to remove gunk that was taking up tolerances and noisy, smoky engine ensues.

anecdotal only, no claims to knowledge or proof

have only just come around to gearbox additives myself [img[http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]


My favourite additive has been a spray bottle of water down the carby throat every now and then and a bottle of injector cleaner in the oil just before every 3rd or 4th change.


Mine uses a lot more oil since it was last flushed a couple of years back...In hindsight i shouldn't have done it.


What happens when a "barbecue plate" sized deposit is loosened from the inside of the crankcase or sump? How does the engine flush dissolve all the particles. Just use quality oils changed at regular intervals, then you won't need to use the engine flush.



Eng flush, definitely not.
A new car being serviced regularly shouldn't need it.
A high mileage vehicle? A big NO !

Experience with a PRV 6. Given a can of....Flush by one of our salesmen to put in a rattly Volvo V6. "To hush it up a bit".
It never left the yard, with a weeks start-ups it was knackered. The already worn rockers were clogged with sludge, they along with the cams being the original noises. Oh, the now clogged chain tensioner also contributed.


The only additive in oil additives that works is the profit to the snake oil salesman. Engines are designed to work with the manufacturers' specified oils and if you contaminate them with anything else, it's up to you. If your engine is building up scale or sludge or consuming excess oil, it needs maintenance not alternative medicine.

The following post is perhaps a little more balanced in its appraisal:


I personally don't see a problem with putting a bottle of injector cleaner in with the sump oil on an old engine and letting it run at an elevated idle for 5-10 minutes before draining the lot (every 15-20,000km).

The first time I did it I drained a few hundred ml of oil first to check the colour, then went through the aforesaid and drained the rest. The rest was dramatically darker when it came out 10 minutes later (jet black vs dark treacle). I then popped in about a half a sump full of cheap oil, ran that for a while, and it came out black too. It was only then that I renewed both the filter and oil, putting in the good oil (alone).

I did that at about 225,000km, and the second time I did it was at around 240,000km (I do oil changes at 5000km intervals on all my cars, so this was three oil changes later). The second time there was minor or no discernable difference in the oil colour however. This made me think that the previous owner (I bought the car at 221,000) wasn't very nice to the car, and that its since improved under my ownership.

Having said all this, I'd caution anyone against putting a permanent additive in their engine oil. Running an engine under essentially idle conditions for a comparatively short duration with modified oil is a completely different scenario to dropping something in the oil for 10,000km and competing in traffic light grand prix. Also, if it's a new car or you've owned it for its whole life and were fastidious with maintenance, there's probably limited benefit to be had with my little injector cleaner stunt anyway, but my opinion is that it can't hurt.

P.S. On a slight tangent, some of you may have heard of Subaru Engine (Top End) Cleaner, Seafoam, so on and so forth. The main constituent of either of these is the same as what's in injector cleaner from memory (Naphthalene something or other). I've also tried feeding injector cleaner through a vacuum hose while the engine is running (the same process as what's used for the other two products) and observed no discernible difference in the same engine I'm talking about in this post. I then tried the water bottle spray thing straight down the carby throat (this was to cure an engine run-on problem), and noticed that the exhaust was spitting out small, soft, powdery clumps of a black substance, about maybe 2-3mm maximum in major dimension. It cured the run-on, but more importantly cleaned my spark plugs up really nicely

What can I say???

Whilst not having posted this thread on any other Australian forum, I find it interesting already how prevailing attitudes to this subject appear to differ from marque to marque, and from forum to forum

NXK-43Y

[gslrallysport]

Here's some quotes for you from a test program I did with the Skylines Australia forum back in 2004 for Roil Oil Additive... the complete, un-edited, as it happened, me coping alot of crap along the way, can be found HERE (http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37992)! :p


Did notice that my power steering used to make this awful groaning noise, well not awful, but anyway it made this noise when I was standing still and moving the wheel, and this sound has gone now, so happy with that
Off boost torque is greatly improved - the car is running smoother, Boost comes in earlier.
My car is just so much nicer to drive - I am very happy with the results and would recommend anyone give this stuff a go, for both power and driveability. I definately will be using it again!
The car runs at a slightly lower temperature than before. Insted of sitting just above a line on the temp gauge, it sits just below. Boost response is DEFINENTLY up. I am able to make good pressure even in 5th gear at 1800 rpm.
During normal driving, the response is improved (not that I ever had lag problems) but I can now make full boost about 200-300 rpm earlier.
Also, I can sit at low speeds in 5th gear, floor the throttle and insted of having to raise a few hundred rpm before making pressure, the thing now begins making boost almost immediately.

So in conclusion, I really do believe that Roil Gold is an excellent product. I only trialled it in my engine, and I will continue to use it. Id like to thank Greg for the FREE SAMPLE without any problems, hesitations or anything. He has truely been an excellent person to deal with and i commend him for puttin up with the bs alot of people have been spinning. So finally, I felt better boost spoolup, Alot better fuel econonmy, corrected my cold start problem, and believe it has increased the performance of my engine!
The biggest difference is the increase in boost responsiveness. Cruising at 50km/h (before Roil) I could flatten the foot and see the boost gauge rise to 13psi at about 2900-3000. Just today I did the same test and the needle rose to the same position at 2500-2600. I was like "WTF?!?!"

Roil gets 11/10 for 'Bang for Buck'. It’s almost like adding a high flow cat... and at a 10th of the price!

The skeptics are missing out!

[CDXIJET]

I was a VL fanatic until last year when I sold my pride n joy and was a long time member of Calaisturbo.com ,we brought this topic up quite a bit in the forum but
because there are a ridiculous amount of products out there that claim to to this and that I just couldn't really make head or tail of it .

Basically in the end it came down to personal preference and what difference people noticed from using one product to another .

I started off using Castrol Magnatec in my VL and then moved on to HPR as I was given some good advice from a freind of mine John Bresciani ,I noticed a little bit of difference with HPR and temp levels were lower through the reading on the Motec .

John uses HPR in Pannic the yellow BT1 ,I used it in my BT1 and never looked back and when on 20 pounds of boost down a strip you need a good oil .

I am no oil expert and this is just the experience I have had from using CASTROL which is a pretty good oil but it's just that HPR was better suited to my RB30ET..

I have heard a lot of people using royal purple and that is supposed to be pretty good stuff ,also about a year back they had an article in Street Commodores about a heap of different oil's and they ended up doing a score mark test on them all .

From memory the Royal purple was no1 and believe it or not the Valvoline was 2nd yeah I couldn't believe my eyes the score mark from the pressure on the piston was very small compared to competitors like Shell ,Motul ,Castrol,Mobil 1 which came 3rd ,there was others but I just can't remember .

I'll try and find the article and see if I can scan it to put up....

Damm I miss my VL TURBO:(:(:(