came accross this thru a friend

[wishbone]

http://www.turbonator.com/index.html

what u guys think? will it increase power and feul economy by moving the air faster, OR will it just restrict the air intake and decrease your power?

sounds good.. but thought i might check it out first. i calculated, if i can get 4 people, it'll cost 70 bucks? hehehe
but it sounds too good to be tru?

[The Sentinel]

Snake-oil anyone?

[Jass]

I wouldnt trust it :|

[Degen-Astra]

Spiral Max then Turbonator.

Keep them coming.

I am yet to read any UN-BIASED/OBJECTIVE views on such a product. Unless you see more than the websites own review I wouldnt bother.

[wishbone]

yeh thats true.. i read the websites own reviews.. and thought i should look up other people opinion..
yeah
i have yet to read a thumbs up from anyone outside the website

[__Smudge__]

These mods are bollox guys..............at first the idea makes sense as turbulent air will make a better mix but all these mods are fitted directly infront of or behind the air filter. In any case it stands a chance of fooling the MAF meter and if you look closely at your intake pipe you will find mesh or grill to diffuse the air for optimum sensor reading. In my opinion it would be better to find a valve fitted to vacuum hoses or inlet manifold so that the venturi is improved after air flow has been read. Have a look at this link :shock:

http://www.ecotekplc.com/

[Mr T]

Thats a Hiclone.

My opinion.....They work!


Ask any engineer, they will tell you that turbulent air burns more effieciently and therefore will use less fuel.....then if you put more fuel in you will get more power.

http://opelaus.com/phpBB2-3/viewtopic.php?p=27442&highlight=#27442

[Rhino]

*cough * bullsh1t

But there's no law against trying to make money...

[Mr T]

From what information do you base you disagreement on Rhino?

[Rhino]

I base my information on the validity of the points covered in the link that you provided Glenn. That and the fact that noone has ever provided a before and after comparison, yourself included.

What you did provide was your car compared to a 'stock' car that Motor provided figures on... which isn't good enough for me when comparing a modification.

How can you compare figures taken from Motor (1 dyno) and your car (2 dynos) with two different cars, working under different conditions..? You've made a noble attempt to provide proven information but for me it has fallen short of proving anything.

I'm all for trying new things, but I think my hard earned cash (he says typing on a forum whilst at work) deserves proof and a guarantee.

PS: I question that hiclones work, not the theory

[Mr T]

Fair Call.

When I do do my next Dyno I shall let you know the details.

Apparently there was supposed to be an OpelAus Dyno Day in Sydney, hasn't happened yet.

To side track a little, I find it amusing that people instantly dispute the validity of a $160 product that offers a 30 Day money back garentee, where day after day on this very web site I see coments from people that spend $1000's of dollars on products that dont work/dont work properly/stuff their car and yet this seems accepable to them.

[Rhino]

Yeah, but they've been promised bigger and better things... point taken though, and appropriate humour extracted for the purpose of a short burst of laughter.

:D

PS: Says me who has probably spent more than most of you to get a result. But that's what happens when you're part of the R&D process :( My reign was short lived but noted.

[krayzastra]

TURBONATOR name itself has to set of some warning alarms!!!

ie. Shurminator in Amrican Pie :P Although he did end up getting Nadia, guess my point doesn't stand after all :oops:

[Mr T]

TURBONATOR name itself has to set of some warning alarms!!!

ie. Shurminator in Amrican Pie :P Although he did end up getting Nadia, guess my point doesn't stand after all :oops:


I would have to say that I would be skeptical about a "TURBONATOR", I think that this is a rip off of the Hiclone.

The word Turbo (or Turbine) describes a device that generates electrical or machanical power (as we know)

Not something that desturbs airflow, It seems that these guys are not too bright, I wouldn't trust them, If they knew about cars then they would know that it is not a substitute for a turbo :screwy:

[wishbone]

well after reading the ecotek valve reviews, on seperate websites.
i'm going to purchase one within the next few days.. i wanna see how well my car will go :P

[Mr T]

Do your self a favour, get it from these guys.

http://www.fuelsaver.com.au/

They have manuals for each car sold in aus and have done the research to work out correct locations.

I wouldn't trust those guys, not worth the saving.

oh, and if you could be bothered, there are several people on here that would be interested in before and after Dyno readings.

[gaero]

Thats a Hiclone.

My opinion.....They work!


Ask any engineer, they will tell you that turbulent air burns more effieciently and therefore will use less fuel.....then if you put more fuel in you will get more power.

http://opelaus.com/phpBB2-3/viewtopic.php?p=27442&highlight=#27442

mmmm an engineer would ask about the assumptions, then go consult the liquid amber for advise :lol: :lol: :lol:

1nuts bigger your right about turbulent air flow burns more eff. as the fuel is mixed better with air.

use less fuel for the same power output, yes as ur not wasting as much

then more fuel in = more power, mmmm
depends if there is enough "air" (is group of elements not just oxygen)
cause if all the "air" is used up in the current combustion process, adding more fuel will make the mixture "rich" (lower air fuel ratio? too much vb tonight :lol: )

think max power is at AFR of 14.7, most eff. for hydrocarbon fuel, but alot of heat is generated at this number, thus car manufactures have slightly lean settings (use all fuel in process)

[InsaneAsylum]

1...2..3... bullshit!!


I AM THE TURBONATOR! A SOPHISTICATED BOOST ROBOT SENT BACK IN TIME TO CHANGE TO FUTURE FOR ONE LUCKY AUTOMOBILE. RICED UP PIECE OF SH1T, YOU'VE BEEN TARGETTED..... FOR TURBONATION!!

[rjastra]

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/misc_car_accessories/ecotek_cb_26p/_review/428593/

All these devices are CRAP

[__Smudge__]

he has a point but seems as unwilling to explain the reasons himself why it is no good as the manufacturers are to explain in detail how it makes an improvement. There is only one way to find out and that is to conduct conclusive tests on one car. I have the opinion it may help performance but doubt it would be noticable when driving. My fathers Vectra 2.0 (136 bhp) very nearly keeps up with my V6 (196 bhp) so we are all really just chasing figures more than actual performance increases with such small mods. Bottom line is the best way to go is by forced induction or NOS, but these things cost money so the likes of ecotek will allways have a captive market.

[gaero]

turbonators got nothing to do with increased air pressure?? all it does is swirl the air, before the injectors and inlet valves.

got the feeling that as the air is "pulled" through the valves the flow is "ironed out" cancelling out the swirl generated before. the flow is then re swirled in the cylinder

Has anyone seen a 3D CFD model of these devices in action???
cause this is all i could find on the hyclone, think they got kindy kids doing their research (save costs??). oh and the easiest way to increase flow through a restriction is to stream line the inlet and outlet (bell mouth) or increase the pressure differential across the restriction.

i'm not saying these don't work, there is some merit in changing the flow, so 1nuts bigger don't shout me down, i don't want to start a fight 8)

[gaero]

he has a point but seems as unwilling to explain the reasons himself why it is no good as the manufacturers are to explain in detail how it makes an improvement. There is only one way to find out and that is to conduct conclusive tests on one car. I have the opinion it may help performance but doubt it would be noticable when driving. My fathers Vectra 2.0 (136 bhp) very nearly keeps up with my V6 (196 bhp) so we are all really just chasing figures more than actual performance increases with such small mods. Bottom line is the best way to go is by forced induction or NOS, but these things cost money so the likes of ecotek will allways have a captive market.

to true, forced induction and chemical enhancement have been used for the last 100yrs to extract substantially more power out of an engine, if there was another way we would be using it.

Astra + NOS = gastra :lol:

[wishbone]

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/misc_car_accessories/ecotek_cb_26p/_review/428593/

All these devices are CRAP


i read up on it. and thats the only negative review there.
and he doesn't seem to have tried it
the others (well so far i've read 3 oit of 4) say that this device does work.
i'll have to try it myself
i think if you buy 2 of them, then it's discounted. this is becuase u need two if your car has 2.6L or more? i think

thats just something i've picked up.. maybe someone else wants one?

umm.. just finished reading the last review on the page.
3/4 reviews were good for performance. 2 say they haven't found and change in fuel economy yet.
1/4 reviews was a bad one, but he hasn't tried it or anything.
sounds good to me?

[Mr T]

Sceptics...hmmm

Didn't people disbelieve Collumbus when he said that the world was round.

As I said before, 30 Day money back garrantee, costs stuff all.

I was skeptical about the ability to "train your ECU" to accept mods/different fuel etc by re-setting it. I tried it (didn't do my car any harm) then 4 days later went back to normal, I looked like a goose but now I know for sure that it is a waste of time.

As Rhino said: Thats what happens when you're part of the R&D process
(taken slightly out of context, it you summed it up so well)

I also shelled out the money for Hiclones, tried it, and guess what, they work and i'm happy. Drove from Sydney to Gold Coast with the car full of crap on one tank (mind you I started to sweat when I couldn't see a servo) averaged something like mid 5's l/100KM (can't remember exactly)

Up untill now only one person on this site has tested Hiclones, Me, and I have given it a good review, no one else has tried it but plenty have discarded them before looking closely into them. At the same time I read stories of ECU re-maps that dont work/dont work properly (thats another story), but people continue to line up and pay big bucks just in the off chance that it may work on their car.

I mentioned this once before on another thread, I work for Yamaha and before I bought the Hiclones I spoke with the National Service Manager at work (happens to be a Mechanical Engineer) He said that this is a well known theory within the Motorcycle Industry, so well known that the current WR450 (first bike ever to out sell the Postie) has an intake manifold that has been specially designed to create the same effect i.e. swirling. Research is underway into developing a similar manifold for the YZFR1 (this bike currently produces 180HP from 1000cc)

Maybe people may beleive me when they realise that they are used on V8 Supercars, they actually use 8. Do some research, you will see.

I'm not trying to shout anyone down, thats not my intenion. Just defending my decision to purchase this product.

I will say this though, I challange all the 7 people on this page that doubt the fuel saving or performance gain, to test the product themselves. (30 Day Money back)

I'll await your comments.

@ Wishbone: Buy two, use them both, its worth the extra $$. I originally bought 2 but the tossers that put them in put one in the wrong spot, so they sent me another - which I kept.

[gaero]

1nuts bigger I don't think you need to defend ur decision to use hiclones, its more about discussing the information to make an informed decision, yes trial n error maybe the only way.

i'm half a mechical engineer (the other half? you won't believe me if i told you), and i say again there is some merit in the idea.

just thinking outloud, but ur car is a turbo, the swirling in ur piping maybe adding distance to the length the warm/compressed air has to travel, this means the air has more time to transfer heat through the piping wall than normally would occur. cooler air = more dense = more power ? this maybe adding to "effects" of the hiclone on a N/A car. (you gotta think of it in terms of a parcel of air moving through ur system)

[__Smudge__]

Fair play M8, my only concern was that if it is fitted infront of the MAF meter it may fool the ECU into thinking there is more air than is actually being inducted. This would obviously result in overfueling. That is the only reason I posted a link about the Ecotek valve as it is fitted to vacuum pipes or directly to manifold.
If you have tested and found a gain then thats good, all credit to you for having a go :D

[InsaneAsylum]

one thing's for sure, this works... and it's proven

http://www.powerlabs.org/images/miniturbo.jpg

[extralarge]

i am up for one.

hell if it gives that minimal difference between ulp and premium, its a gain.

definitely willing to give it a try.

who else?

[wishbone]

thanks smudge for the idea of the ecotek valve. i purchased the chrome one on ebay, for only 60 pounds which includes delivery. i saved myself 25 pounds so i am happy.. i hope this ecotek valve works.
a friend of a friend of mine, whom i talked to about this stuff. says that it will prolly only give you 1kw of power or something. but what its for is that it makes it more smoother ride, by i can't think how anymore.. hahaha
im not no mechanical engineer haha
but he sez if you wanna economise on fuel and gain a little bit of power through the whole umm?? cycle? rev?? i dunno i can't think! hhe
then i should get it.
but i bought it there.. at a buy it now price on ebay.
thanks mate :P

i'll let you all guys know what i think of it.
oh, and also getting a power boost valve and an exhaust with 2.25" piping in the next 2 weeks, which i hear the ecotek will compliment that?

[__Smudge__]

You're welcome M8............before you spend out on a power boost valve check how much it will cost you to get it set up (usually requires rolling road session). A cheaper option with similar gains is to get a direct replacement fuel pressure regulator set at a higher flow pressure. I swapped my 3bar for a 4bar unit for £45. I am also lead to believe that F.S.E recommend upgraded fuel pumps when fitting their valve.

[wishbone]

really i'll find out.. i'm getting mine for about 370, an FSE power boost valve, i'll find out more about it.. a friend of mine, who works for a distributor of these things is selling it to me for 370 bucks i think? if thats what he said.. normally its like 600 bucks on the market...
can anyone back this up?

[sleepwalker]

do it this way
get an empty 2 litre bottle of coke
fill it up with water and turn it upside down and hold it till the bottle is empty
then fill it up again
this time when you turn it upside down swirl the bottle so you get the water swirling inside the bottle, like when you stirr a cup of coffee

you'll notice that the bottle is emptied a lot quicker when you swirl it as the water is accelerated through the bottleneck and there is more water in the bottleneck at any given time.
the same goes for the air. this is the basic principle on which this gizmo operates. it also turbulates the air before entering the cylinder, which mixes the air and fuel better and gives more powerful combustion.

[macquered]

Thats not a valid comparison, the reason why the water takes longer to come out of the bottle is due to air needing to replace the volume in the bottle. This doesn't happen on the intake setup of a car.

[sleepwalker]

true
but when you swirl the water you're accelerating the flow of water through the bottleneck, which is the idea behind this. coz the the air is flowing faster more of it enters the cylinder while the intake valves are open

[macquered]

So you acknowledge the whole bottle and water thing is completely irrelevant, but then try and run with the idea anyway?

Sorry, the whole thing smacks of poor explanations and false results. I notice the dyno results on the Hiclone website are not actual dyno printouts, they are just graphs that anyone could have made up. Wow, doesn't that look legit?

I also couldn't find any evidence of V8Supercars using them either - would love to know more about this though.

[InsaneAsylum]

hahahaha how much power do you want macquered.. i'll just whip you up a graph in excel!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

exactly right... no one who makes any questionable "performance"/"fuel economy" increasing devices has ever posted a legitimate dyno graph on their websites....

one in the U.K called "Surbo" actually stated that the device would "increase your top speed in each gear". their dyno graph showed an RPM increase in each gear... WOW putting a cut up sardine can in your intake actually lets your car rev out to 9000RPM!! wicked! i'll take 2

[gaero]

Everyone posting is so passionate about their views, which is excellent as this gets people thinking about different sides of the argument.

sleepy, got to be careful, the hiclone they're talking about doesn't energise the air, all it does is change/redirect the flow. The water bottle scenario requires you to add energy into the water by movements of ur hand(can’t explain, u know what I mean). Centrifugal forces & gravity act on the water, which creates a velocity vector that is directed to the general direction of the bottle’s neck. In short ur accelerating the flow, hence it gets out of the bottle quicker. Hiclone can’t accelerate the flow end of story. swirl doesnt mean acceleration its just a change in the velocity vector, thats why I would love to see the CFD model of these devices as it would show the real story.

maca ur also right about air having to get into the bottle. Maybe if the bottle had a hole at the base/top? Then it would be interesting to see which one is quicker?