PDA

View Full Version : Car Brands on Life Support



poita
19th February 2009, 04:09 PM
http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/News/BLOG:+Brands+on+life+support.html?open&template=domWheels&pagenum=2&fullarticle=yes



Where is General Norman Schwarzkopf when you need him? Someone needs to crank up another Desert Storm - Hummer’s great marketing tool.

Hummer has been on the market for some time now, with General Motors keen to get some cash from a source other than the US taxpayers. With sales plummeting to fewer than 38,000 sales in 2008 – a plunge of 43 percent – Hummer is hardly a prime buy in a soft market where fuel prices have had a massive impact. The greenhouse gas debate has turned it into an automotive dead man walking.

GM chief executive Rick Wagoner said this week his company was talking with potential buyers of Hummer. One is a Chinese company.

If no sale is forthcoming, the Hummer brand would be swiftly wound down after March 31, which is the next deadline GM faces in its fight to convince Washington that it can survive.

SsangYong Motor Company, South Korea’s fourth largest car company, went into receivership last month after posting a US $75.42 million loss.

Saab is another GM chattel with a For Sale sign out front. Saab has been a technologically interesting car maker but these days, under GM’s heavy handed control, is a bit player on the world stage with sales off 25 per cent last year to a sad 93,000 units.

The possible sale of Saab has been a major discussion point in Sweden where it rates up there with fellow icons Abba, Britt Ekland, Ikea and Volvo.

GM’s Wagoner has indicated the company is in talks with the Swedish Government over financial support for Saab. But few among Swedes, a pragmatic lot, want the Swedish Government to buy it.

Wagoner said that if the government doesn’t contribute to saving the niche brand, Saab would face bankruptcy.

Some pundits are musing about a possible sale to Tata. Saab's aircraft division has good contacts with Tata. Saab's JAS Gripen multi-role fighter is among possibilities being considered for the Indian Air Force; if chosen, Tata will build it.

It’s a tough time for both Swedish car companies.

Having flogged off Jaguar and Land Rover to Tata of India, Ford is also keen to offload Volvo.

The Geely company of China has been recently linked to Volvo. It deserves better.

While Volvo has plenty going for it, it’s unlikely that Ford would get anything like the US$6.4 billion it paid for the Swede in 1999. Ford has reportedly also approached Chery Automobile Co. and Chongqing Changan Automobile Co.

Volvo went from a global high of 458,000 sales in 2007 to the worst performance in 12 years in 2008 - 374,297 cars, a slide of 18.3 per cent. The biggest declines were in the US and the Swedish markets. The UK and China actually improved slightly.

Of course there are no guarantees that GM, Chrysler LLC and Ford – the Detroit majors - will emerge from the financial tsunami intact.

At best some brands and lines will have to be euthanised. Between them, GM, Ford and Chrysler sell 112 different car and truck models through 15 brands in the US. The proliferation of models and duplication of brands line-ups are some of the reason the American giants are losing so much money as vehicle sales dive to their lowest point in 15 years.

If the Big Three were to fail, what then of the Australian subsidiaries? Jeep-Dodge-Chrysler is a relatively minor player here, but Holden and Ford have an illustrious history and were second and third on the sales totem last year. Would anyone be interested in buying the Australian Holden and Ford operations?

Let’s hope it never happens but we are in a period of turmoil unprecedented since the 1930s. Big companies can fail: think Ansett, Lehman Brothers, Pan Am, Opes Prime, Trump Entertainment Resorts, Waterford Wedgewood, Enron, Polaroid, Northern Rock, Commodore Computers…

Car brands that no longer exist include Oldsmobile, Studebaker, Tucker, DeLorean, Plymouth, AMC, Morris, Austin, Lagonda, Wolseley…

Does the world have too many car brands? The chances are it will have fewer car makers in the coming few years.

Which ones do you think are endangered?

Will any wither and die without much in the way of consumer regret?

Which of the feeble ones must be saved at almost any cost?

chrissn89
19th February 2009, 08:33 PM
WOW, i couldnt imagine Australia without Holden or Ford. Thats scary stuff :yikes: Imagine if we only had Koren brands to choose from. No V8's, big sixes or Turbo's :(

pd-xc-72464118
19th February 2009, 08:52 PM
Cant wait to see the end of Hummer. They're a disgrace.

rjastra
20th February 2009, 08:31 AM
WOW, i couldnt imagine Australia without Holden or Ford. Thats scary stuff :yikes: Imagine if we only had Koren brands to choose from. No V8's, big sixes or Turbo's :(


Do some investigation first :P

Hyundai have turbo 4, V6 and V8 RWD (yes RWD) Saloons and sports coupes.

Wraith
20th February 2009, 08:50 AM
Do some investigation first :P

Hyundai have turbo 4, V6 and V8 RWD (yes RWD) Saloons and sports coupes.

Yes that's true - I like the new Hyundai 'Genisis' coupe, RWD nice looking machine and will probably come with a V8 engine option :)

rjastra
20th February 2009, 10:05 AM
Yes that's true - I like the new Hyundai 'Genisis' coupe, RWD nice looking machine and will probably come with a V8 engine option :)


Apparently the genesis coupe is turbo 4 or 3.8L V6, no V8 (it wont fit) - not real requirement as it is seen as a cheaper 370Z competitor.

Not to say that Hyundai doesn't make a luxo V8 coupe in the near future.

Wraith
20th February 2009, 10:48 AM
Apparently the genesis coupe is turbo 4 or 3.8L V6, no V8 (it wont fit) - not real requirement as it is seen as a cheaper 370Z competitor.

Not to say that Hyundai doesn't make a luxo V8 coupe in the near future.

Yep, I've read N/A - turbo 4 to V6 engines and maybe V8 for a performance topper variant in some markets only :)

Hyundai is definitely going places :)

chrissn89
20th February 2009, 11:13 AM
Do some investigation first :P

Hyundai have turbo 4, V6 and V8 RWD (yes RWD) Saloons and sports coupes.

Really in the Australian market i never knew about the turbo 4 and V8 RWD. Ill have to check them out.


Yep, I've read N/A - turbo 4 to V6 engines and maybe V8 for a performance topper variant in some markets only :)

Hyundai is definitely going places :)

Thats good to hear and with there excellent warranty, good pricing and having a sports line now will help them alot.

EDIT: The Genesis couple looks nice, a mix of the 370z, Infiniti, some Lexus model and the old Hyundia Coupe. Power looks to be very nice to.

cdxi
20th February 2009, 05:08 PM
I reckon we have to be prepared for a very different car industry in the long term. The market began to dictate the transition some time ago and comanies like GM still didn't respond quickly enough.

Who knows what will happen? Mitsubishi went belly-up here in Australia well before the GFC hit because the company took too long to replace teh ageing Magna.....and then gave us the gargantuan, ungainly 380.

If it wasn't for Holden's history and the cache of RWD V8s, the Commodore could just as easily be on the nose and causing the company serious grief.

If we're looking at the next model name (rather than brand) to bite the dust, my money is on Falcon. Drive today has an article that says under Ford's global policy, all vehicles with a Ford badge will have a 4cyl engine (Ecoboost no doubt) by 2013. We know the Ford I6 is with us until about 2013, but after that no one knows what will slot under the bonnet of the Falcon....if indeed there is a Falcon bonnet left to slot anything into.

A new Focus will be Ford's main seller by then after local introduction in 2011 and the Holden "Delta" will likely have taken over from Commodore as Holden's best seller.

Be prepared for a VERY different Australian car industry.

cbrmale
22nd February 2009, 12:56 PM
If it wasn't for Holden's history and the cache of RWD V8s, the Commodore could just as easily be on the nose and causing the company serious grief.


And just exactly how many V8s do you think Holden sell? Holden make 6-cylinder cars and flog them to fleets, end of story. The typical fleet discount for a Commodore is around $7,000 per unit, perhaps more. They get thrashed and abused by sales reps for three years, and offloaded through auctions to unsuspecting private buyers who think they are getting a bargain (?). There are far, far less Commodores, 6 and 8, sold to private buyers than Astras sold to private buyers, for example.

Excluding GMs global crisis, Holden is in big trouble anyway. The Commodore in all variants is too expensive and too thirsty for 2009. When I bought my Astra, the reason I was keen on it was because I knew the local Holden dealers were selling bugger-all Commodores in 2007, and they would give a healthy discount to anyone buying any new Holden for cash. And indeed they did give me a healthy discount, just to move some stock.

Now GM is in crisis globally, and the future looks even bleaker for the local Holden manufacturing operation. Maybe the Korean-sourced compact car might rescue it from the albatross known as the Commodore, or maybe GM might go down before it has a chance. But when they designed the current Commodore, what were they thinking of? Ditto Ford and the Fowlcan. Insane.

cdxi
23rd February 2009, 12:39 PM
And just exactly how many V8s do you think Holden sell? Holden make 6-cylinder cars and flog them to fleets, end of story . .

Don't know the exact numbers of V8 sales, but my point was based on history and the cache of a RWD V8 - image. The brand capital built around Holden is massive and is a huge factor in keeping sales turning over.

To say Holden makes "6-cylinder cars and flog them to fleets, end of story" is not the whole story. Yes, a big number of Commodore sales are fleet based, but out of the 50-odd-thousand sold in 2008, we're talking about 25 000 private/novated lease sales, including quite a significant number of V8s.

Wraith
23rd February 2009, 01:13 PM
Maybe this will give you a better understanding of the auto industry problems around the world!!! as worded and shown from an email circulating ATM...

Nissan has announced plans to cut its Sunderland workforce by 1,200. Thousands of unsold cars are stored around the factory's test track
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nm0suu.jpg
Honda is halting production at its Swindon plant in April and May, extending the two-month closure announced before Christmas to four months. Honda and Japanese rival Toyota are both cutting production in Japan and elsewhere. Pictured, Hondas await export at a pier in Tokyo
http://i44.tinypic.com/2uqhxfn.jpg
Earlier this week Jaguar Land Rover said 450 British jobs would go
http://i40.tinypic.com/ma8aiw.jpg
The open car storage areas in Corby , Northamptonshire, are reaching full capacity
http://i42.tinypic.com/11b0pqa.jpg
Imported cars stored at Sheerness open storage area awaiting delivery to dealers
http://i40.tinypic.com/epkgv8.jpg
Newly imported cars fill the 150-acre site at the Toyota distribution centre in Long Beach , California
http://i42.tinypic.com/zme80x.jpg
The build-up of imported cars at the port of Newark , New Jersey
http://i41.tinypic.com/t8ks3t.jpg
Stocks of Ford trucks in Detroit , Michigan
http://i39.tinypic.com/2ymaxyt.jpg
New cars jam the dockside in the port of Valencia in Spain
http://i39.tinypic.com/9fyxoh.jpg
Peugeot cars await shipment to Italian dealers at the port of Civitavecchia
http://i39.tinypic.com/11uxmkm.jpg
Unsold cars at Avonmouth Docks near Bristol

With many manufacturers on extended Christmas shutdown, the number of cars rolling off production lines in December fell 47.5% to just 53,823

Thousands of new cars are stored on the runway at the disused Upper Heyford airbase near Bicester, Oxfordshire, on December 18, 2008.

Last 3 pics wouldn't fit on this post


Sales of new cars in the UK have slumped to a 12-year-low and production of cars at Honda in Swindon has been halted for a unprecedented four-month period because of the collapse in global sales and represents the longest continuous halt in production at any UK car plant. The announcement comes on a day when the EU's Industry Commissioner Guenter Verheugen warned the outlook for the European car industry was 'brutal' and predicted not all European manufacturers would survive the crisis.

Wraith
23rd February 2009, 01:16 PM
Pics for last 3 comments above:

http://i43.tinypic.com/6789xz.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/34nmgxu.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/s61x7c.jpg

cbrmale
23rd February 2009, 03:04 PM
Don't know the exact numbers of V8 sales, but my point was based on history and the cache of a RWD V8 - image. The brand capital built around Holden is massive and is a huge factor in keeping sales turning over.

To say Holden makes "6-cylinder cars and flog them to fleets, end of story" is not the whole story. Yes, a big number of Commodore sales are fleet based, but out of the 50-odd-thousand sold in 2008, we're talking about 25 000 private/novated lease sales, including quite a significant number of V8s.

Do you think the bean counters care about image? The reason they don't buy so many Commodores for fleets these days is because they are too expensive to run, not because of image. Approximately 70% of new Commodores are sold to fleets, down from 80% a few years ago, and 90% of Commodore wagons are sold to fleets! Most novated lease sales are to companies, are are just a way of financing yet another fleet sale.

Most Commodores you see driven by private buyers were originally fleet cars, recycled through auction to car yards, and then purchased second-hand.

Shay
23rd February 2009, 03:15 PM
Do some investigation first :P

Hyundai have turbo 4, V6 and V8 RWD (yes RWD) Saloons and sports coupes.

too bad they will all die within 8 years, as in full apart.

rjastra
23rd February 2009, 03:48 PM
too bad they will all die within 8 years, as in full apart.


really.. who f*cken cares? I dont buy 8 yr old cars nor keep them for 8 yrs. This is stupid ignorance based on 20yr old statistics.

If you really truly cared about long term reliability of your car you wouldn't consider any european sourced brand!

Shay
23rd February 2009, 03:49 PM
bmw and vw are 2 of the most reliable brands around

EDIT: and porsche (even tho im not a fan)

rjastra
23rd February 2009, 04:44 PM
bmw and vw are 2 of the most reliable brands around

EDIT: and porsche (even tho im not a fan)


You sure???

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/descending/page-#page-anchor

Take with grain of salt but VW isn't anywhere near the top (and I own one!)

cdxi
23rd February 2009, 05:43 PM
Do you think the bean counters care about image? The reason they don't buy so many Commodores for fleets these days is because they are too expensive to run, not because of image. Approximately 70% of new Commodores are sold to fleets, down from 80% a few years ago, and 90% of Commodore wagons are sold to fleets! Most novated lease sales are to companies, are are just a way of financing yet another fleet sale.

Most Commodores you see driven by private buyers were originally fleet cars, recycled through auction to car yards, and then purchased second-hand.

I don't disagree. You're absolutely right when you talk about bean counters and their cost relationship with image. But, the whole brand capital generated by the image of a Commodore maintains those private and/or user-chooser sales (however slim) and the resale (appeal, not held value) of the original fleet car. Holden sells mainly Omegas to fleets, but they sell a bucket load of SS and SS-V variants to private buyers. I look at the industry I'm in and lose count of the privately purchased/user-chooser V8 Holden utes.

My original point - perhaps not as clearly stated in this context of dying car brands - was that Ford's Falcon (as we know it) will likely be the next nameplate to drop off the perch, simply because it does not have the brand capital, image and appeal of the Commodore.