More HSV Corsa and Insignia News...

[Shaun]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story/3C04F4EEBAF7408CCA2575280004754E?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,HSV
Taken from Go Auto.

Smaller siblings for hottest Holdens
Pocket rocket: GM Opel's Corsa could come here as an HSV.
HSV eyes Corsa and Insignia VXRs - and maybe even Holden's homegrown 2010 Cruze

By JAMES STANFORD 23 December 2008


HOLDEN Special Vehicles (HSV) says it will introduce new mid-sized and small models, potentially including the Cruze-based global GM model that will be built by Holden in Australia from 2010, as long as the price is right.

The muscle-car brand is currently negotiating with General Motors in Europe to bring hot versions of the new Corsa hatch (formerly known as the Barina here) and Insignia (which replaces the discontinued Vectra) to Australia.

HSV currently imports the Astra VXR from Europe and sells it alongside its Commodore and Statesman-based locally-produced cars.

It is not yet clear whether HSV would consider producing a hot version of the front-drive small car that Holden will build at its Elizabeth plant within two years. Such a move would depend on whether the Australian-made car is quick enough.

HSV managing director Phil Harding has made it clear that his company will consider any model, no matter the size, as long as it meets key brand pillars including the fitment of a high-performance engine, a matching chassis and a unique look.

Mr Harding revealed HSV wants to import a hot version of the Corsa, GM Europe's smallest hatch, which employs a turbocharged 1.6-litre four-cylinder to produce 143kW.

The Corsa is the next-generation version of GM Europe's light car, which used to be sold in Australia as the Barina before Holden started sourcing the nameplate from GM Daewoo in South Korea.

HSV is also keen on the soon-to-be-released Insignia VXR, which is expected to be powered by a twin-turbocharged petrol V6 belting out more than 215kW.

The business cases for both the Corsa and Insignia are made more difficult by the fact that Holden doesn’t import standard versions of the cars.

For example, Holden does sell the Astra here and also brings in most of the parts. Therefore HSV doesn’t have to bring in many spares except for some VXR-specific items.

In the case of the Corsa and Insignia (left), HSV would have to bring in all the parts and provide all the service training and support.

“The challenge is that we have to support the complete parts gap (range) for spares and servicing, whereas if you ride on the back of what Holden is doing you only have to do the incremental,” Mr Harding said.

“We have been talking about it a lot, but it is a big decision to make.”

Mr Harding said the Corsa business case would be approved if HSV could source the car for the right price.

“We have to see a number less than $30,000,” he said.

The high performance Insignia is more likely to be seen on Australian roads, because a higher price will allow for a more attractive profit margin.

“That price point is a little more relaxed. It is a very good car but it should sell for less than a Clubby (ClubSport) - probably around mid-$50,000,” Mr Harding said.

“We are just evaluating with our networks to see whether there is a group of customers around that price who would like to buy it.”

Mr Harding said the Astra VXR has performed well in Australia, with sales of between 80 and 100 a year proving the HSV brand should not necessarily be limited to including large V8s.

“We never expected it to take over from the large-car volumes - we expected those kinds of numbers.”

He said the Astra, despite being the only front-drive and non-V8 model in the range, had not damaged the HSV brand.

“No-one has challenged me in this country as to whether an HSV badge should have gone on an Astra VXR. Everyone who has driven it and owned it believes that is a car worthy of our badge,” he said.

[Shaun]

The promising thing about all of this is that HSV are aiming to have the Corsa under the 30k mark.

It seems HSV see the VXR Astra Program as a success as well. Which make a postive step forward the next model VXR could be in the line up.

[sooty]

Very interesting indeed...:D

[poita]

thats great news!

bring on the insignia :)


and in regards to the parts, wouldnt they share some bits the the ah astra?

[sooty]

I'm guessing body panels etc would be the hardest part to come by...

[poita]

yer definatly

[Shaun]

I'm guessing body panels etc would be the hardest part to come by...

I Recall an article im Motor or Wheels about it. HSV need to be doing 300 Units per year to make it viable.

But if they can get the pricing of the Corsa VXR below $30,000 then its going to be a big bang for your buck against the likes of a XR4.

As for panels its costly to carry stock to support. Im sure HSV will use GMH NPDC for stroage but they will be charged for it and the stock would be on there books thats for sure.


I like Phil Hardings closing words though about the current VXR Astra.

[Shaun]

thats great news!

bring on the insignia :)


and in regards to the parts, wouldnt they share some bits the the ah astra?

Insignia is a complete new car from the ground up. There would be very little that has commonality with the Current AH astra. But possibly the Astra MK6 will have commonality in some respects

[poita]

ah thats right, its too.

shall be interesting indeed, im pretty excited about the insignia

if they are resonably priced it will replace the mazda :D

[mr corsa]

no chance them comming

[rjastra]

no chance them comming

I agree. The market here is flat as a tack. Why would you attempt to launch an unsupported (and unknown) vehicle now?

[poita]

the article was writte on 23rd december, things werent as bad then.
plus there is no comfirmed date of when they are deciding to bring them here
could be 2 years away as far as we know

[mr corsa]

how are they going to keep the corsa vxr under 30k when the first sri barina had a price tag of 28k when they hit the market

[poita]

will be interesting to see tony, would be awesome if they could do it without sacrifcing anything

[Shaun]

I agree. The market here is flat as a tack. Why would you attempt to launch an unsupported (and unknown) vehicle now?

HSV are working on a business case to become an Importer - Exporter. Im sure there is good reason for this with the current export arm . I believe you will find Phil Harding is the driving force behind it as he was with the VXR Astra being released to the Australian Market.

Its time for HSV to take the next step forward providing the business case is strong which may prove hard to justify at this present time. As for pricing there is a possiablity GM Europe could cut the price of the cars to the bone to HSV because its better to move stock then have stock sitting in Holding Yards and on docks waiting for dealers to move them.

[rjastra]

how are they going to keep the corsa vxr under 30k when the first sri barina had a price tag of 28k when they hit the market

No they didn't.

[UnKnOwN]

not wanting to go off topic but 215 kw seems very low output coming from a twin turbo v6(for the insignia vxr), e.g the GTR produces 350+ kw?

[rjastra]

not wanting to go off topic but 215 kw seems very low output coming from a twin turbo v6(for the insignia vxr), e.g the GTR produces 350+ kw?

LOL... its a mass produced 2.8L v6 as opposed to the high-spec 3.8L twin turbo.

[Wraith]

Out of all those vehicles mentioned, the one that has the greatest chance of actually seeing Aussie roads, is the new Cruze !

It is the only one that represents more than just an added model line to sell - which is a hard thing to do with cars ATM...

It will rpresent earnings for GMH with actual production for other markets as well as being sold locally and local employment for businesses, the Corsa VXR and Insignia VXR will be niche selling items, which I believe will never make it down here, unless GMH also sell their basic model equivalants...if not and HSV still bring them in, the pricing will be over the top (as it already is with HSV's) so sales will be very low...

All interesting though, lets wait and see what happens, but for all those hoping, I wouldn't be holding my breath ;)

[Wraith]

not wanting to go off topic but 215 kw seems very low output coming from a twin turbo v6(for the insignia vxr), e.g the GTR produces 350+ kw?

Completely different class of engine, for a completely different car !

Think of it logically...how much power and torque do you think the Insignia chassis and mechanical set up would handle properly/safely to make production compared to something like the GT-R ;)

No doubt the V6 TT in the Insignia can outpuit more power, but you've got to take into account the total package ;)

[Senor Ed]

not wanting to go off topic but 215 kw seems very low output coming from a twin turbo v6(for the insignia vxr), e.g the GTR produces 350+ kw?


Also.....BMW 335ci.....Twin Turbo six.....225kw - voted one of the best engines ever.....

[rjastra]

Interesting you should mention the Cruze. There is no reason they can't put one of the hi-po turbo four cylinder engines into it. From my readings the Cruze chassis has been setup to accept a wide variety of engines and hybrids.

On another note.... 2.8L turbo with 215kw being underpowered. Take that logic and apply it to the 4L turbo in the XR6. Thats dreadfully underpowered for the capacity.

[chrissn89]

not wanting to go off topic but 215 kw seems very low output coming from a twin turbo v6(for the insignia vxr), e.g the GTR produces 350+ kw?

It does seem quite low in the kw department, what are the torque figures?

VE SV6 commodore 3.6ltr V6 : 195kw / 340Nm
Mazda CX9 3.7ltr V6 : 204kw / 366Nm
Toyota Aurion 3.5ltr V6: 200kw / 336Nm

[oneightoo]

Interesting you should mention the Cruze. There is no reason they can't put one of the hi-po turbo four cylinder engines into it. From my readings the Cruze chassis has been setup to accept a wide variety of engines and hybrids.

that would be a death machine then.. they feel like they are going to roll when doing 25 around a corner.. imagine putting a hi po turbo engine in that and put it around the track..

oh wait a second..

i'd like to see that :D

[xplosv57]

I think the new Cruze platform is a sedan, not the bastardised tiny off road thing from a few years back!!!

Although yes, i'd also like to see the old Cruze with a stupidly powerful motor, Max bodyroll!!!

[oneightoo]

ahhh a sedan would make more sense now :p

[Wraith]

Interesting you should mention the Cruze. There is no reason they can't put one of the hi-po turbo four cylinder engines into it. From my readings the Cruze chassis has been setup to accept a wide variety of engines and hybrids.

On another note.... 2.8L turbo with 215kw being underpowered. Take that logic and apply it to the 4L turbo in the XR6. Thats dreadfully underpowered for the capacity.

That's correct...

In the current Wheels magazine, there's the latest Torana re-birth gossip and it looks alot like the new Cruze sedan concept and they do mention a new Torana will be powered by 4 pot engines.

[MitchSRi]

Twin turbo v6 pumping out 215kw? Is that a typo? Should it be 315kw?

If its truly 215kw, that's woeful.

Honda Accord v6 luxury 3.5L is VERY close to that mark N/A.

With Twin turbos I'd be expecting at LEAST 300kw, given that the XR6Turbo with a single turbo is pushing close to that now.

[poita]

due to Euro emission standards it would be detuned to the max no doubt

[rjastra]

Twin turbo v6 pumping out 215kw? Is that a typo? Should it be 315kw?

If its truly 215kw, that's woeful.

Honda Accord v6 luxury 3.5L is VERY close to that mark N/A.

With Twin turbos I'd be expecting at LEAST 300kw, given that the XR6Turbo with a single turbo is pushing close to that now.

As I said before... the Xr6 has a 1.2L capacity (nearly 50%) advantage.... Siongle or dual turbos dont count for much. They probably used small turbos (one per bank) to minimise lag


due to Euro emission standards it would be detuned to the max no doubt

Emission standards in Euro, here and the USA are most harmonised for petrol cars.

[Wraith]

Twin turbo v6 pumping out 215kw? Is that a typo? Should it be 315kw?

If its truly 215kw, that's woeful.

Honda Accord v6 luxury 3.5L is VERY close to that mark N/A.

With Twin turbos I'd be expecting at LEAST 300kw, given that the XR6Turbo with a single turbo is pushing close to that now.

For starters, there's a huge difference in capacity between Fords 4.0ltr IL6 and this 2.8ltr V6...

Then there's the cars they equip, different needs and mechanical configurations...

As said of course there's more power which could be extracted from the 2.8ltr V6, but probably not required or wanted for the Insignia' configuration.

As for single or twin turbo applications - that dosn't spell or allude to power output results, manufacturers adopting twin turbos do so more for engine bay space or volume requirements and for response/driveability characteristics, as adopting a single larger turbo for high power outputs, results in severe low rev range lag etc. :)

[MatsHolden]

that would be a death machine then.. they feel like they are going to roll when doing 25 around a corner.. imagine putting a hi po turbo engine in that and put it around the track..

oh wait a second..

i'd like to see that :D

Completely seperate vehicles. Just the Chevy name 'Cruze' just happens to be the same as the Ignis based Holden 'Cruze'.

[Neeko]

would be nice to see them drop the name barina if they came over here as a HSV

[oneightoo]

Completely seperate vehicles. Just the Chevy name 'Cruze' just happens to be the same as the Ignis based Holden 'Cruze'.

yeah i eventually worked that out..

[oneightoo]

would be nice to see them drop the name barina if they came over here as a HSV

surley they would considering they will look completley different..

[Neeko]

surley they would considering they will look completley different..

compare my car to the 2009 barina lol omg its a ... daewoo??

[MatsHolden]

would be nice to see them drop the name barina if they came over here as a HSV

As 182 said, it won't be called the Barina. Only chance of it being called Barina is if Holden began to use the Corsa as the Barina again. And of course your Barina looks different to the current one, it's meant to be the newer model so it looks different. No different to comparing your car to the new Corsa, they look completely different.

[Apex]

There are defiantly a lot of rumors going around about the HSV and VXR exchainge program… Autocar mentioned the Insignia VXR as being a major highlight in 09 and also mentioned the proposed HSV version.

I would buy one :cornut:

[MatsHolden]

Wonder if HSV will have any surprises for us at the upcoming Melbourne International Motorshow...

[glider]

I would buy one possibly...

but i'd rather it be called a corsa. dont want it sharing the same name as the daewoo. the name has been tarnished by the original 2 star rating of the rebadged TK

[poita]

they could call it hairy green twat for all i care.

i'd still buy one :)

[Red AH SRI T]

they could call it hairy green twat for all i care.



Your favourite?

[Shaun]

There is a strong presents of information around about HSV importing more products from the VXR Range . There is also a strong romour present of HSV using a Diesel engine in the E Series Range.

I know Holden now as the Active Cylinder Mangement in the V8 Range from 2009 and would assume HSV will follow suit sometime in the near future.

I Have a feeling a HSV Diesel may appear on the stands @ Melbourne's Motorshow this year and a Corsa Could be on the stands like the astra was as a gauging tool.

There is a strong a romour the Corsa isnt far from being in the HSV range though which kind of makes sense as the Current VXR Asta is romoured for production cease in sometime in 2010.

[xplosv57]

Yeah HSV has a test mule with the M57 BMW 3.0 diesel engine in it running around HQ, would be good to see a diesel engine adapted for australian diesel quality!!

[rjastra]

HSV will go with injected LPG, not diesel.

AFM is only available on automatic V8s and not that model V8 used in the HSV.

[xplosv57]

HSV will go with injected LPG, not diesel.



Of course, they just built a diesel mule just for kicks...

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2008/large-passenger/hsv/hsv-diesel-deadline-set-11175

[rjastra]

Of course, they just built a diesel mule just for kicks...

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2008/large-passenger/hsv/hsv-diesel-deadline-set-11175

Lots of "mules" get built.... doesn't mean that it will come to market. LPG injection is far more likely as HSV already do the LPG conversions for commodores :P

[Shaun]

Of course, they just built a diesel mule just for kicks...

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2008/large-passenger/hsv/hsv-diesel-deadline-set-11175

HAHA Of course they did. They went to BMW and said lend us an engine just for the hell of it .haha
BMW replied with " Sure come borrow an engine from us and we will help you trick the media and the public into believeing HSV are looking to run a preformance diesel "

:P

[ASTRAY]

i think it would be good if they did keep the corsa name.
aside from obvious reasons, i think we could see more members on here.

[xplosv57]

Lots of "mules" get built.... doesn't mean that it will come to market. LPG injection is far more likely as HSV already do the LPG conversions for commodores :P

Yeah that's definetely true but it just sounded like you'd ruled out diesel altogether when in real fact they're spending more time with diesel than gas...

Also Holden only do gas setups for the V6, there's still no factory gas support for the V8, only aftermarket stuff!!

[Vectracious]

Also Holden only do gas setups for the V6, there's still no factory gas support for the V8, only aftermarket stuff!!

in the latest top gear australia magazine there is a write up on the dual fuel Clubby HSV are mucking around with - only a prototype but if it becomes a reality then it might extend to factory support of LPG on the V8's as well.

[rjastra]

Seems they were looking at it as a possibility for export only. Current car market will most likely scuttle that.


"At the moment, with the way taxes are here, it's difficult to see the benefit in (it) for Australia, but certainly we have to look at it for export.

"For export you need a diesel. If you're going into Europe ... you need a diesel. That's what drives us to look at it.''

However, HSV's managing director, Scott Grant, says that trialling diesels engines doen't mean there'll definitely be a diesel HSV in the showrooms.

At this moment there is no program for a diesel, but we are evaluating it,'' Mr Grant says.

"In the large car market diesel hasn't really happened, so potentially there's local market upside to complement what we're doing. But obviously for Europe diesel is mandatory,'' he said.

"At the moment there's the budget to go and do the research,'' Mr Walkinshaw says.

"We have no program at the moment because you're not going to do a car line in the hope of export, you have to know there's a core market here at home.''





However, he said the option of using LPG fuel was also seriously under consideration and this could come on stream as soon as late 2009.

Joel Stoddart, HSV engineering guru, explained that with LPG the company y was looking at a liquid port injection system.

“It’s a dual fuel system that we feel replicates the performance of petrol in the 6.2-litre V8 engine,” he said.
Mr Stoddart said that the system was duel fuel because at full throttle the engine management system would switch the engine to straight petrol operation, before cutting back to LPG as the engine load reduced.

[Shaun]

Seems they were looking at it as a possibility for export only. Current car market will most likely scuttle that.

Just been Reading your quotes . Scott Grant has been gone from HSV for some time now. Phil Harding is back in charge @ HSV since about Late October early November.

T\

[rjastra]

Just been Reading your quotes . Scott Grant has been gone from HSV for some time now. Phil Harding is back in charge @ HSV since about Late October early November.

T\

So, do you think that HSV totally change direction in a few months? Or that its one person's decision? As I state again, the current economic climate and the abysmal situation of the UK economy and car market I would think that developing a diesel drivetrain for the VE for export is unlikely.

[Shaun]

So, do you think that HSV totally change direction in a few months? Or that its one person's decision? As I state again, the current economic climate and the abysmal situation of the UK economy and car market I would think that developing a diesel drivetrain for the VE for export is unlikely.

What makes you think that its not a good reason to develop. Diesel cars in the uk are well accepted by the public and a Diesel VXR E Series could just boost sales. The VXR8 has a waiting list as it is in the UK .

The Diesel engine is said to be a GM engine and as ive already pointed out earlier in this thread its very clear cut HSV are looking to be an Export / Importer rather then just an arm of Holden for prefromance products. HSV sales have grown in strenght each year since the brand was created. Meaning HSV are very well established locally and have established them selves though there current export program.


Both Tom Walkinshaw and Phil Harding are very accomplished businessman .Phil Hardings Back ground before returning to run HSV for the second time round was in charge of HSV Export Programs based @ Walkinshaw Preformance in the UK.

And I would say there has been some market research conducted both by HSV and Vauxhall to export products there. The engine has been in the car for at least a couple of months. the down turn in the Motor Vehicle industry started at the start of the 2008 calander year.

[MatsHolden]

Tom Walkinshaw... ...

...very accomplished businessman.

Apart from Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) going bust.

[Shaun]

Apart from Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) going bust.

Considering he owns HRT again and is the major share holder in HSV as well as Walkinshaw preformance he have clawed back to a reasonable level of sucess