GM Bankruptcy?

[jaffa-cree]

What would happen to Holden if GM does not get the bail out and declares bankruptcy?

Will they be sold off?

What happens to our holden warranties and things like parts and servicing?

[vectraguy01]

same as wat happened to daewo basically!

[Red AH SRI T]

same as wat happened to daewo basically!

ahhh no, not really. Holden covered all Daewoo warranties.

I'm sure I F GM did go under there would be provisions made for warranties.

[Huhness]

GM will be bought by an Asian or Indian.

[vectraguy01]

exactly red, another company will cover all the warranites same as wat happened to daewo!

[NXA-16H]

Who, quite frankly, gives a toss????

From what I've generally seen of GM management and marketing (both in Australia as well as in Europe), as well as what I've researched on the whole sorry debacle, GM (and Ford and Chrysler for that matter) are the world's automotive laughing stock. http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/graemlins/rolllaugh.gif

On the strength and basis of the very corporate culture within GM's senior ranks, I agree with recent media reports that no amount of rescue funds will save it from bankruptcy.

Not too long ago, Carlos Ghosan, CEO of Renault and Nissan proposed that GM, Renault and Nissan form a "Global-Alliance". GM's current CEO Rick Wagoner, in his (questionable) wisdom, rejected such an idea. Frankly, a global alliance with Renault-Nissan may have the best thing for GM in a long time.

To cut to the chase, GM-Management's arrogant and very long-running attitude that market leadership is forever theirs (regardless of the quality of its products) will ultimately seal its demise. But perhaps the death of GM (as we know it) may turn out to be a good thing.

One thing I can tell you right now though, is that the next new car I purchase WILL NOT be a Holden.http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/graemlins//thmbdn.gif

NXK-43Y

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/smilies/citplak.gif Vous n'imaginez pas tout ce que Citroën peut faire pour vous.

[USC]

TATA could buy GM:D..just like they bought Jag.

[tuzinski]

Holden wont go down.
massive fleet purchases keep them alive :)

[rjastra]

TATA could buy GM:D..just like they bought Jag.


Is that why Tata was asking the UK Govn for financial assistance for Jag?

http://www.motorauthority.com/jaguar-land-rover-ceo-asks-uk-for-assistance.html

[lithium]

i agree on GM engineering being somewhat substandard compared to Japanese rivals...no idea about the corporate culture though

if it goes down i do hope someone picks it up because i still want to be able to get parts for another few years

[USC]

By the way, have u guys checked the new Ford Fiesta..super sexy car!!

[rjastra]

i agree on GM engineering being somewhat substandard compared to Japanese rivals...

It is? In what way exactly?

[Mainframe_Module]

DDOOOOOOOM TO US ALLLLLL *in big booming voice*

aherm....*blink*

[lithium]

It is? In what way exactly?

well i have ranted about it several times in Opelaus already but i'll do it again :) i guess i can only really speak about my personal gripes with the Z18XE in a Barina

list of very common Z18XE problems you never get in a Jap car:

1) ECU failure due to ECU mounted on the (very hot) engine block. Jap cars mount ECU behind glove box in air conditioned passenger compartment, as a result ECU failure is very rare
2) Crappy coil packs weak and often fail after a few years/70000km - ignition coils last a hell of a lot longer on Jap cars. plus they are seperate so if one fails you can replace it, instead of needing to replace the whole expensive shebang
3) cold start drivability problems - car acts differently for the first two minutes of driving on cold start. with a Jap car, you jump in, turn on key and drive off, you'd never know what temperature your engine is at, its mapped so well its always the same
4) plastic gear linkages on Barinas

and also have you seen how much easier it is to work on a Jap car vs an ECOTEC??? you can't tell me its good engineering design when you need to disconnect and rip out the entire wiring loom to pull the injectors...or in a Barina when you have to loosen the plastic stuff under the front windscreen and remove some of the rubber trimming just to replace the battery? on my girlfriends civic, you can literally undo one catch and then you pull the battery straight out!

finally take a look on an Japanese car forum...Euro car forums are full of threads saying 'my car is doing X, what's wrong with it?' whereas Jap forums don't have *any* problem threads. instead there are threads of people saying 'i was losing until i hit vtak yo' which is just as bad i suppose :)

end rant

ps. i am still keeping my Barina :cool: but next time it will be Jap for sure

[Ice]

well i have ranted about it several times in Opelaus already but i'll do it again :) i guess i can only really speak about my personal gripes with the Z18XE in a Barina

list of very common Z18XE problems you never get in a Jap car:

1) ECU failure due to ECU mounted on the (very hot) engine block. Jap cars mount ECU behind glove box in air conditioned passenger compartment, as a result ECU failure is very rare
2) Crappy coil packs weak and often fail after a few years/70000km - ignition coils last a hell of a lot longer on Jap cars. plus they are seperate so if one fails you can replace it, instead of needing to replace the whole expensive shebang
3) cold start drivability problems - car acts differently for the first two minutes of driving on cold start. with a Jap car, you jump in, turn on key and drive off, you'd never know what temperature your engine is at, its mapped so well its always the same
4) plastic gear linkages on Barinas

and also have you seen how much easier it is to work on a Jap car vs an ECOTEC??? you can't tell me its good engineering design when you need to disconnect and rip out the entire wiring loom to pull the injectors...or in a Barina when you have to loosen the plastic stuff under the front windscreen and remove some of the rubber trimming just to replace the battery? on my girlfriends civic, you can literally undo one catch and then you pull the battery straight out!

finally take a look on an Japanese car forum...Euro car forums are full of threads saying 'my car is doing X, what's wrong with it?' whereas Jap forums don't have *any* problem threads. instead there are threads of people saying 'i was losing until i hit vtak yo' which is just as bad i suppose :)

end rant

ps. i am still keeping my Barina :cool: but next time it will be Jap for sure


and how about driving it ???? driving an opel is so much more satisfying than driving a toyota corolla ! you get in and ........ it smells of plastic, looks cheap and ITS BORING. This is the price you pay. If you want both european stying and relaibility, buy a lexus.... (boring)

[lithium]

hmm, i 100% agree that Euro cars get driving and handling very right.

however i don't think there has to be a price to pay for good styling and good handling. come on mate, bad engineering is just bad engineering. period. there's no excuse for the list of problems i just posted - and to STILL make engines and cars like that when they know its a broken way to build them (LS3 has the ECU on engine block)

[Wraith]

Answer to original question, if they do go down, the pieces will be picked up by onother company/companies, so warranty parts etc. will be taken care of...

Answer to USC's question - yes agree, very nice vehicle range the new Fiesta is, I mentioned a couple of months ago that I was seriously (and still am) looking at a 5 door Ztec Fiesta as my new DD as they are now available for sale from Ford dealerships...great package and very well priced, much better choice than a Mazda 2 or Toyota Yaris IMHO :)

Jaffa Cree, are you from Melb. and do you drive a burgandy coloured Ford Falcon sedan ???

Reason I ask is because I spotted one on the weekend driving on Bell St. with reg. plates SG1FAN and Stargate logos and other related descriptions all over the back window and a weird red LED light in the drivers side headlight only...maybe a laser system LOL :D

[glider]

Reason I ask is because I spotted one on the weekend driving on Bell St. with reg. plates SG1FAN and Stargate logos and other related descriptions all over the back window and a weird red LED light in the drivers side headlight only...maybe a laser system LOL :D

lol o dear

[Calibrated]

Holden wont go down.
massive fleet purchases keep them alive :)
:rolleyes: not anymore they wont.

[rjastra]

well i have ranted about it several times in Opelaus already but i'll do it again i guess i can only really speak about my personal gripes with the Z18XE in a Barina


As for jap cars being reliable...

Go actually read a forum for a particular japanese brand. Let's say the MAzda Mx5.

They have all the problems that the euros have. Most due to sloppy engineering. Also, the japs never seem to come up with satisfactory mid model fix. There are problems with the MX5 (NA/NB) that were never adequately resolved in the 15yrs they were making that model.

A mate of mine just did a big end bearing in a NC MX5 (the current shape). Serviced by the book, yada yada... and its not an uncommon experience. Not to mention the littany of rattles and stupid design.

So, to repeat... its not just the europeans that suffer from these issues.

Have a look at JD Power ratings. They japanese blitz the NEW car reliability but as the years pass (only 3 !) the japanese etc start to fall down the rating and the US/Euro brands start to rise up the ratings.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

[USC]

there you go...Euro VS Japs!!!!! not again:rolleyes:

They are both as crap as each other. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.


But, re: plastic smell: Astras stink like plastic, specially the TS model. Everytime I go in my friend`s TS, I have to stop breathing for a while..the plastic smell is so strong!

[lithium]

the MX5 is an enthusiasts car, so the buyer is more likely to tolerate faults for improved performance than in something like, i don't know, an Astra. compare a 15 year old MX5 to a 15 year old Calibra and tell me which one you would prefer to use for a daily driver?

anyway USC is right. and in the end i do own a GM car so i voted with my money:)

[cdxi]

Interesting that the media here is fairly low-key on a potential failure for Holden.

Even though Holden is a subsidiary of GM, it isn't solely financially dependent on the parent company. Holden is more of a parent to and closely tied to the financial (and currently still profitable) fortunes of Daewoo.

If GM-NA goes under as is appearing more and more likely unless the Canadian/US Governments cough up a rescue package (yes, the Canadians are now serious about the fall-out), the brands themselves mightn't die. Chevrolet in most international markets is heavily reliant on Daewoo product such as the Gentra, Lacetti/Cruze, Epica and Captiva. These are all selling strongly in growth markets such as eastern Europe, Russia and China. And, well.....4 out of Holden's 9 model lines are sourced from a financially sound supplier.

Holden may go cap in hand to K-Rudd but shouldn't fall over without his help. But that's not to say that new strategic partnerships will not emerge as a result of this current automotive crisis. GM may not be able to sell Hummer and Saab (now secured by loans from the Swedish Govt) or lay Saturn to rest, but Holden could be a tidy earner for a canny Asian or European company after a high quality, low cost RWD platform, design and manufacturing capability and established infrastructure.

It may not be TATA, SAIC or other emerging players. We could even see a big-badge Euro sniffing around Holden. Whatever the case, if it happens, the buyer will also get custody of GM-Daewoo. And if Holden skids out of financial control, the Holden brand and all its goodwill will remain in the marketplace for a long time to come. The only difference will be who signs the cheques.

[rjastra]

It may not be TATA, SAIC or other emerging players. We could even see a big-badge Euro sniffing around Holden. Whatever the case, if it happens, the buyer will also get custody of GM-Daewoo. And if Holden skids out of financial control, the Holden brand and all its goodwill will remain in the marketplace for a long time to come. The only difference will be who signs the cheques.

I dont really think people understand the scope and depth of the world crisis. There is every indication that Toyota will post a loss this quarter. Car sales in China are down 20%+. Sales of japanese cars in the USA have fallen nearly as much as the US brands!

Can anyone logically answer why another automotive company would take on a car company with huge liabilities? In this market?

[rjastra]

the MX5 is an enthusiasts car, so the buyer is more likely to tolerate faults for improved performance than in something like, i don't know, an Astra.


The fact is ... they don't. They bitch and moan about it (trust me!). Wouldn't you after spending twice as much as Mazda's own hatchback. The sales of MX5s have tumbled as fast as those of the WRX of the recent years. Except...there is no direct competitor to the MX5!

[Calibrated]

compare a 15 year old MX5 to a 15 year old Calibra and tell me which one you would prefer to use for a daily driver?

calibra any day.

[vectraguy01]

BTW, its VTEC Yo lithium.:p

[cdxi]

I dont really think people understand the scope and depth of the world crisis. There is every indication that Toyota will post a loss this quarter. Car sales in China are down 20%+. Sales of japanese cars in the USA have fallen nearly as much as the US brands!

Can anyone logically answer why another automotive company would take on a car company with huge liabilities? In this market?

You are spot-on, RJ.

The GFC is deeper than the depression of the 30's. No one will be immune from it at all. However, there will always be the opportunists who can pick and choose their way through the debris with the will (if not the means) to emerge as the big powers at the other end of the crisis.

If GM goes belly-up, any company worth their salt will be there to pick up on intellectual property or useful assets if they can afford to do so. No one is buying at the moment because this crisis hasn't yet reached bottom. It will only be at that point where we will discover a new, emerging automotive giant.

[lithium]

The fact is ... they don't. They bitch and moan about it (trust me!). Wouldn't you after spending twice as much as Mazda's own hatchback. The sales of MX5s have tumbled as fast as those of the WRX of the recent years. Except...there is no direct competitor to the MX5!

i believe you, i bitch and moan about my Barina as you have probably gathered but at the end of the day i still keep it around :p
i think the WRX started getting overtaken by its competitors...the latest iteration of WRX is a car i'd consider, but not bug eye or pig nose


calibra any day.

lol


BTW, its VTEC Yo lithium.:p

only if you can spell correctly (which precludes many Honda forum members) :p

[Calibrated]

lol




seriously, how/why would you compare an mx5 to a calibra? sure, both enthusiasts cars to a degree, but one is a small 2 seater cabrio, and the other is a 5 seater coupe. in terms of reliability, sure, cali's have normal niggles, but once they are sorted, they never or at least very rarely return. my cali is now 100% mechanically and electrically perfect. sure, i've spend a fair bit on it. but well worth it in my mind.

what did clarkson say about the new 159? something about it being too refined? and as good as it is.. it just isnt an alfa, because it doesnt break.

[lithium]

i was just trying to find a GM car of the same vintage as an MX-5 targeted towards enthusiasts to compare reliability to. a Calibra was the first one that came to mind. not saying a Calibra is in any way shape or form similar to an MX-5!

'it just isn't an alfa because it doesn't break' sort of sums up what i'm trying to say....some people say it adds character, i say its just a shoddily engineered piece of s**t

[MK]

Holden wont go down.
massive fleet purchases keep them alive :)

Sorry Kolego! for eg. Woolworths just finished their long running association with Holden fleet and replaced it completely with Ford Mondeo diesel, VW Golf Diesel and VW Passat Diesel (more than 2000 cars)

then you have companies like Telstra and the like who have been doing business with Toyota.

i know many reps and executives from many companies and majority have dropped Falcons and Commodores and switched to other brands\models :)

[glider]

yep, all the managers who get cars now that I know have mondeos

[MK]

Who, quite frankly, gives a toss????

From what I've generally seen of GM management and marketing (both in Australia as well as in Europe), as well as what I've researched on the whole sorry debacle, GM (and Ford and Chrysler for that matter) are the world's automotive laughing stock. http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/graemlins/rolllaugh.gif

On the strength and basis of the very corporate culture within GM's senior ranks, I agree with recent media reports that no amount of rescue funds will save it from bankruptcy.

Not too long ago, Carlos Ghosan, CEO of Renault and Nissan proposed that GM, Renault and Nissan form a "Global-Alliance". GM's current CEO Rick Wagoner, in his (questionable) wisdom, rejected such an idea. Frankly, a global alliance with Renault-Nissan may have the best thing for GM in a long time.

To cut to the chase, GM-Management's arrogant and very long-running attitude that market leadership is forever theirs (regardless of the quality of its products) will ultimately seal its demise. But perhaps the death of GM (as we know it) may turn out to be a good thing.

One thing I can tell you right now though, is that the next new car I purchase WILL NOT be a Holden.http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/graemlins//thmbdn.gif

NXK-43Y

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/smilies/citplak.gif Vous n'imaginez pas tout ce que Citroën peut faire pour vous.


Mate! i am so with you...cant stand companies and their top honchos selling us BS!

[USC]

Holden probably saw all this coming...thats why they switched to Daewoos. If im not wrong, I think the new Rodeo or whatever they call it is not from Isuzu anymore...can anyone confirm?? I think its a daewoo!!

[Calibrated]

Holden probably saw all this coming...thats why they switched to Daewoos. If im not wrong, I think the new Rodeo or whatever they call it is not from Isuzu anymore...can anyone confirm?? I think its a daewoo!!

Colorado. its still an isuzu. just not allowed to call it the rodeo anymore.

[poita]

Isuzu are also releasing it here as the Isuzu D-Max

[ASTRAY]

i know things can easily change during financial hardship, but the gov purchases loads of holdens every year. they also buy fords too (also mitsa-shiti's and toy-mota's)
but i think if it came down to the nitty gritty, the gov would take sides with holden. eg buy only holdens to help support holden.
sure ford is considered an aussie company, but holden is/was a wholely aust owned company.
for those who didnt know, holden was a coach/carriage making company, and when they announced they planned to branch into making cars, the aus gov got right behind them.
at the time holdens were "australias own car"
so yeah, i think the gov will do their best to help, if not purchase holden themselves.


just a thought on the barina problems with changing injectors etc, to be fair the 1.8 barina has a fairly small engine bay with a decent sized engine, this would make it obvious that its going to be hard to work on.

[glider]

just a few details


Colorado trucks are manufactured at GM’s Rayong plant in Thailand.
its is a facelifted rodeo
izuzu owns the name rodeo now, so holden had to ditch it
there is not much difference between the two vehicles (d-max & colorado)
colorado is a filler truck, will only be around for a few years until holden brings out a new non-izuzu model in 2 year time (with the colorado badge)

[USC]

i know things can easily change during financial hardship, but the gov purchases loads of holdens every year. they also buy fords too (also mitsa-shiti's and toy-mota's)
but i think if it came down to the nitty gritty, the gov would take sides with holden. eg buy only holdens to help support holden.
sure ford is considered an aussie company, but holden is/was a wholely aust owned company.
for those who didnt know, holden was a coach/carriage making company, and when they announced they planned to branch into making cars, the aus gov got right behind them.
at the time holdens were "australias own car"
so yeah, i think the gov will do their best to help, if not purchase holden themselves.


just a thought on the barina problems with changing injectors etc, to be fair the 1.8 barina has a fairly small engine bay with a decent sized engine, this would make it obvious that its going to be hard to work on.

The only car that Holden makes is the commodore. Everything else is just a deformed version of it..like the statesman etc.....The rest of the range is from daewoo or opel...so if they stop manufacturing cars, its not a big deal.

[rjastra]

As for the yanks not being able to come up with the goods:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0812_2010_ford_fusion_hybrid_first_drive/index.html

Competitor to the Camry Hybrid.

[ASTRAY]

The only car that Holden makes is the commodore. Everything else is just a deformed version of it..like the statesman etc.....The rest of the range is from daewoo or opel...so if they stop manufacturing cars, its not a big deal.
i totally agree, but its the commodores that the gov purchase, and statesmans.
i was just saying that if ford and holden were going down at the same time, i think the gov would choose to save holden. just my opinion.

[MK]

i totally agree, but its the commodores that the gov purchase, and statesmans.
i was just saying that if ford and holden were going down at the same time, i think the gov would choose to save holden. just my opinion.

agree with you, but didnt the gov promise it will support green change and so on...dont some politicians already drive Toyota PRIUS's ?

the only thing i can see the gov will still purchase the commo and falco is for the Police service...look at the ambulance service in NSW, they drive the Mercedes ambulans and i thing VIC drive the IVECO or Transit ambulances?

[ASTRAY]

agree with you, but didnt the gov promise it will support green change and so on...dont some politicians already drive Toyota PRIUS's ?

the only thing i can see the gov will still purchase the commo and falco is for the Police service...look at the ambulance service in NSW, they drive the Mercedes ambulans and i thing VIC drive the IVECO or Transit ambulances?

yeah id say they will still buy for police.
the statesmans they purchase are for the pollies themselves too, notice when howard turned up somewhere it was always in a statesman, i think same with rudd, havent taken much notice.

take a look at the syd 2000 olympics, all the cars were vt commodores, olympic edition.
the athletes, home and foreign, each got a personal driver, and the drivers each had a vt to drive the athletes around in.

[jaffa-cree]

Jaffa Cree, are you from Melb. and do you drive a burgandy coloured Ford Falcon sedan ???

Reason I ask is because I spotted one on the weekend driving on Bell St. with reg. plates SG1FAN and Stargate logos and other related descriptions all over the back window and a weird red LED light in the drivers side headlight only...maybe a laser system LOL :D

Nope, I am a Sydney sider and I drive a AH SRiT
There are plenty of other SG fans. Actually we are EVERYWHERE!

[jaffa-cree]

Good to know that what ever happens our Holden warranty will still valid.

I rather hope I'd never have to use it!

[Wraith]

Nope, I am a Sydney sider and I drive a AH SRiT
There are plenty of other SG fans. Actually we are EVERYWHERE!

Good to hear :) I too am a fan not a fanatic though, loved the original movie years ago and watched the TV series with enthusiasm...that car I spotted was definitely over the top and a little to weird for me...glad it wasn't you or anyone else on here LOL :D

.

[cbrmale]

The US economy is significantly more ruined than Australia, and car sales have stopped. This was compounded by high petrol prices, when all the big three had to offer were SUVs. Their sales were decimated in favour of Japanese-designed cars and imports, especially Korean. The other problem for the big three in the US are the huge liabilities for employee health insurance and superannuation, as well as over-award pay rates. US factorys that make Hondas and so on are much more profitable because they don't have the same labour cost-structures.

If GM goes bankrupt, I expect the segments of the company would be sold, as Daewoo was sold to Holden and Kia to Hyundai. I'm less concerned about my warranty and more concerned about long-term parts availability, no parts means you can't keep a car on the road. But the GM Europe cars are volume sellers, the Astra is the biggest or second-biggest selling model in the UK and third-biggest in Germany; possibly GM Europe has a more secure future than GM in the US?

Today, Toyota announced a loss. This is indicative of the world crisis, and probably indicative of a bloated corporation that has been cruising on the back of many years of high-volume sales. In other words, knowing Japanese culture, it would surprise me if Toyota wasn't bloated.