Russell Ingall - The Enforcer

[iNiff]

Anyone watch the Indy 300 / V8's on sunday?

Happen to see the Russell Ingall and The Enforcer driving tips?

1. Hold the steering wheel at 9 & 3
2. Your left leg should be resting against the centre console
3. Right leg knee should be resting against the door.


9 & 3 ?!!?! SINCE WHEN HAS IT EVER BEEN 9 & 3?!

And how the hell did they convince a race driver to go on tv suggesting that safe driving involves leg spreads?!

[gslrallysport]

9 & 3 ?!!?! SINCE WHEN HAS IT EVER BEEN 9 & 3?!
For about 20 years bud! :p

That's what I've always taught as a an advanced instructor... Look at any new car, and that's where the rests are on the steering wheel, and manufacturers spend millions on ergonomics.

9 and 3 is also the ONLY position on the steering wheel where lateral movements (through the car cornering or loosing control or whatever) has no bearing on the rotation of the steering wheel... Try it, put your hands at 9/3 and try and move your hands left/right, and the wheel won't turn. Do the same thing at 10/2 and the wheel will move in the direction that you're moving your hands.

I know 10/2 is what the old wood use, but 9/3 is definitely the best for control and safety. First two things I teach people, be it on the road, at the V8 Race experience at QR or in rally... 'Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing' and '9/3'.

[lithium]

dunno about the leg spread but i think 9-3 is the correct driving position on the track
it lets you keep both hands on the wheel for all turns that require up to a 90 degree turn of the steering wheel (which is most turns)

personally i use 9-3 in every day driving, even though its generally considered correct to use 10-2

edit: ahh thanks for clarification gsl :)

[Snotty]

right hand at 3, left hand never touches the wheel :D

except for both hands slamming down on the horn

[oneightoo]

leg spreads have been around for a while..

i remember being taught that when i was a learner about 12 years ago..

was something about the feeling of being one with the car.. or some shit like that..

as for 9 & 3, i was always taught 10 & 2, but only ever did either right hand on 3 or both hands at 6..

[sooty]

right hand at 3, left hand never touches the wheel :D


Only way to do it in daily commute.
i guess i'm between 10-2 and 9-3 when i'm driving harder :cool:

[iNiff]

For about 20 years bud! :p

That's what I've always taught as a an advanced instructor... Look at any new car, and that's where the rests are on the steering wheel, and manufacturers spend millions on ergonomics.

9 and 3 is also the ONLY position on the steering wheel where lateral movements (through the car cornering or loosing control or whatever) has no bearing on the rotation of the steering wheel... Try it, put your hands at 9/3 and try and move your hands left/right, and the wheel won't turn. Do the same thing at 10/2 and the wheel will move in the direction that you're moving your hands.

I know 10/2 is what the old wood use, but 9/3 is definitely the best for control and safety. First two things I teach people, be it on the road, at the V8 Race experience at QR or in rally... 'Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing' and '9/3'.

Really?! I've never heard anyone say 9&3, only ever 10&2.

[gslrallysport]

Yeah, I know, but 10/2 dates back to the days where cars were designed with positive camber as well... :p

There's absolutely no reason to go 10/2. There's less control and stability available and plus your wrists get tired quicker.

[gslrallysport]

But try it at home kids! :) Grab the wheel at 10/2 and try and shake the steering wheel left and right, and you can rotate the wheel. At 9/3 you can't do that...

[angus171]

Also on the 9&3 issue, my driving instructor spoke of a a mate of his who drove at the old school 10&2 for ages, until he was involved in a car accident and the airbag smacked his wrists into his face because his hands were in the way. At 9&3, they're less likely to get in the way.
Well that's what I've been told anyways!!!

[gslrallysport]

At 9&3, they're less likely to get in the way.
YES! Fark, I knew that too... :o

[Wraith]

LOL what a funny thread... :D

9 and 3 positions are the most natural positions for anybody - trained that way or not...

Although you could argue that it's actually better or more precise at 10 and 2 ;)

[gslrallysport]

Although you could argue that it's actually better or more precise at 10 and 2 ;)
I suppose you could argue it... but on what basis?

[lithium]

leg spreads have been around for a while..

i remember being taught that when i was a learner about 12 years ago..

was something about the feeling of being one with the car.. or some shit like that..

and does a leg spread make you feel at one with the car? ;)

[Wraith]

I suppose you could argue it... but on what basis?

I suggested 'argue' because I know alot of people will insist on one being better than the other - everyone's an expert you know ;)

I know when I'm driving my hands (whether it be both hands or more usually just the one hand) will rest/grip the steering wheel at somewhere in between the 9/3 and 10/2 positions...that's just where I feel most comfortable with it :)

Also depending of what type of steering wheel you have may have an influence !

Typical 4 spoker will make you grab 9/3 or around 11/1 due to the position of the steering wheel spokes, unless you like grabing over the spokes...and similarily for a 3 spoker, depending on the position of those spokes.

I know when I recently drove the TTS I did use 9/3 and it felt very comfotable in that car as I believe the steering wheel is in fact very well designed for such usage...

[immenotu]

I went for a spirited drive on some twisty mountain roads last weekend and i was holding the wheel at 9 and 3 the whole way, it just feels more comfortable and balanced when taking corners quickly (IMO)

[sri05]

The "leg spread" against console and door is for bracing so you don't flop around

[iNiff]

The "leg spread" against console and door is for bracing so you don't flop around

I even disagree with that. I have no choice as my legs are so long but if the steering wheel wasn't in the way i'd have my legs straight as you get better control of the pedals. I even remember being told that you should drive with your knees not your ankles for the same reason and I don't see how you can use your knees without your legs being somewhat straight.

[oneightoo]

But try it at home kids! :) Grab the wheel at 10/2 and try and shake the steering wheel left and right, and you can rotate the wheel. At 9/3 you can't do that...

lol tried it last night.. i cant make these budge.....


and does a leg spread make you feel at one with the car? ;)

indeed ;)


The "leg spread" against console and door is for bracing so you don't flop around

yeah thats it..

[imay]

My driver training comprised of the old man taking me out a couple of times in his old Holden (FC I think) and showing me all that he knows . . . . . that's a pretty scary thought when you consider how well (not!!!) he used to drive.
Then, my first time out with my brother, he managed to roll his Corolla on a dirt road while "showing me how to handle driving on dirt."
Then came the self instruction, being the one that always drove my paraletic mates home from the pub (I was the youngest in the group). The rest I pretty much taught myself using simple logic and learning from finding myself in some scary situations.

I ended up teaching both my kids how to drive (using what I had learned over the years) and they also attended parent (me) funded official driver training. I must say, a lot of what they were taught at driver ed is beyond my belief. Example: Not once were either of them instructed in how to set up and use their mirrors! Anyway, they now both ride motor bikes as well as drive cars. I'm not concerned for their them over their ability on the bikes, but I have encouraged them to again be aware that there are a lot of bad drivers out there that aren't watching for them.

To summarise: Stay alert, be prepared to act defensively, realise that not all drivers are as good as what you think you are!

Stay safe out their guys, it's a dangerous place to be.

[lithium]

The "leg spread" against console and door is for bracing so you don't flop around

ah right, actually i have had the odd time when i've been clutching out and gone over a bump at the same time, and lost some clutch finesse

wonder if a leg spread will help. gotta try it on the way home today :D

[gslrallysport]

To summarise: Stay alert, be prepared to act defensively, realise that not all drivers are as good as what you think you are!
That's pretty well said! I can vouch for that!!! Having been an instructor at the V8 Experience (which is generally the wrong target audience to begin with! :p), when I asked 'so have you don't anything like this before' the WORST responses were when people arrogantly replied, 'yeah my mate drifts an s13', or 'yeah mate, done powercruise' or 'yeah done drag racing for 20 year'... any of those and I was always in for a tough ride! :(

Its amazing the difference between guys and girl. Most guys go out thinking they know everything, wouldn't listen to what instructors have to say, go out hard, and by about lap 5 of 8 are so cocky and think they now it all that they've already tried to kill me 3 times... Girls on the other hand, are nervous, listen to what you have to say, are EMBARRASSING slow for the first 2 or 3 laps, pick up the pace by lap 4 or 5, and by lap 7 are doing 1:07/08 where most guys struggle to get under the 1:10! :D

It is all about attitude, and if people stopped thinking they knew it all, and started paying attention to what going on around them, there'd be alot less accidents...

[gslrallysport]

Then, my first time out with my brother, he managed to roll his Corolla on a dirt road while "showing me how to handle driving on dirt."
You know something really ironic about that... I taught people how to drive around a circuit at the V8 Experience, but I've never EVER done circuit racing, not even a sprint day at a track, and I hadn't even driven at QLD Raceway till the day before I started instructing... :eek: But obviously am pretty clued up with car control from rallying, so that's how I got the gig...

BUT.... I've been rallying for 4 years, currently QLD's fastest FWD, leading the Hyundai Series etc but I CAN NOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME teach someone to drive fast on dirt! :confused: I can not explain what it is I do or how I do it... At our last test day myself and my nav switched seats for a run, and I tried to get him to go fast, or explain how to do it... and I couldn't! :o