Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

[btm]

lets see where this goes :D

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/?referrer=email

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

[JohnBu]

a bit odd since every test track comparison of the 911 turbo and GTR was won by the GTR..

[Ice]

Hmmm im sure Wraith will have something to say with this one.

Porsche rock and thats al there is to it !

[Wraith]

Hmmm im sure Wraith will have something to say with this one.

Porsche rock and thats al there is to it !

Yes I have BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D :D :D :D :D :D

Never have I seen the Porsche motor co. beaten to such a sore sorry pulp, that they have to resort to this kind of propaganda to keep their heads above water LOL...this only proves even further beyond a doubt the 'massive' effect and implications of what a car of the calibre of the new R35 GT-R is doing in terms of shaking up the supercar giants ;)

What on Earth will they do or come up with when the V-Spec hits the scene and when the new NSX and Lexus supercar hit scene ???

More childish excuses no doubt :rolleyes:

You know what it could be, everybody knows and I've mentioned it here, they were amongst the 1st to purchase R35 GT-R's for their own test and evaluation purposes and have stripped them down to learn and possibly reverse engineer the R35 technology, maybe they didn't put em back together properly LOL :D

[poita]

was just reading this, tall poppy syndrome has hit porsche hard!
bunch of friggin whingers.

and i know it doesnt account for such a big time difference, but every r35 has a different power output.

[lithium]

that's interesting

i read an article a month ago which claimed that the sole reason a GT-R is faster around the 'burg than a 911 turbo is because the GT-R comes factory fitted with stickier tyres....the author of that article thought that if you put the same rubber on both cars, the 911 will come out on top

i'm skeptical about Porsches claims though, 25 seconds slower?? seeing, as mentioned above, all other independent track tests have the two cars neck-and-neck, with the GT-R occasionally a nose in front.

looks like the days of overcharging for a yellow badge are rapidly coming to a close :)

[Wraith]

looks like the days of overcharging for a yellow badge are rapidly coming to a close :)

We can only hope - but the rich brand snob noses love to pay lots for their cars - makes em feel good about themselves :D

Then when the povo Jap hi-po vehicle comes along and blows em, it's a quick flick up of the nose and comments like, " bah it's just a Datsun ol boy can't possibly be all that good can it " :D

I'd like to make a request to Mr Porker since he owns 51% majority share of VW who in turn have majority share of so many other companies, can you please at least lower the prices of your Audi vehicles group, as I'm very interested in buying one :D

[lithium]

We can only hope - but the rich brand snob noses love to pay lots for their cars - makes em feel good about themselves :D

Then when the povo Jap hi-po vehicle comes along and blows em, it's a quick flick up of the nose and comments like, " bah it's just a Datsun ol boy can't possibly be all that good can it " :D

:D you know i was talking to a Boxster-owning friend about the virtues of the GT-R, and he did exactly that - turned up the nose and said 'yeah but it's only a Nissan'. i couldn't believe my ears! some people will never learn ;)


I'd like to make a request to Mr Porker since he owns 51% majority share of VW who in turn have majority share of so many other companies, can you please at least lower the prices of your Audi vehicles group, as I'm very interested in buying one :D

mate i take it the TTS test-drive went well?

[Ice]

but it is only a Nissan ! people wont look at it the same as they will a Porsche and im sure they will hvae something up their sleeve...they are going to have to think of something soon and I guess cars can only get so fast. Blah to your Nissan Wraith !!!!!!! ;)

[Wraith]

:D you know i was talking to a Boxster-owning friend about the virtues of the GT-R, and he did exactly that - turned up the nose and said 'yeah but it's only a Nissan'. i couldn't believe my ears! some people will never learn ;)



mate i take it the TTS test-drive went well?

LOL with the above - see what I mean :D

As for the test drive - it's this coming Friday (I'll write up about it) as mentioned in that other thread, the Audi dealership has sold both of the vehicles that they had allocated to them as test drivers...so I've had to wait for another to come in - good news for me, I'll be test driving both coupe and roadster, can't wait :)

[Wraith]

Blah to your Nissan Wraith !!!!!!! ;)

Not mine :(

But I wish they were :)

Power to the common people :D

[rjastra]

It will be interesting to see how the 911 turbo etc performs when its available with the 7 speed PDK transmission and direct injection. Maybe the GTR's reign will be shorter than we think :)

As for the Lexus/NSX... i will believe it when i see it. They have both badly stumbled with the release of these cars.

[lithium]

but it is only a Nissan ! people wont look at it the same as they will a Porsche and im sure they will hvae something up their sleeve...they are going to have to think of something soon and I guess cars can only get so fast. Blah to your Nissan Wraith !!!!!!! ;)

hahaha :p well each to their own :)
Wraith: looking forward to the writeup!

[Wraith]

It will be interesting to see how the 911 turbo etc performs when its available with the 7 speed PDK transmission and direct injection. Maybe the GTR's reign will be shorter than we think :)

As for the Lexus/NSX... i will believe it when i see it. They have both badly stumbled with the release of these cars.

Even if it fell off its purch right now - the damage is done to all those affected ;)

Remenber V-Spec is around the corner...

And future better models of the GT-R will always be born ;)

Remember as I've mentioned before numerous times, this situation isn't exactly new, although this is the 1st time it has been so pronounced...

Back in the early '90's when the R32 was released, it had a similar scaring effect on all the then hi-po cars around.

[Wraith]

hahaha :p well each to their own :)
Wraith: looking forward to the writeup!

Thanks Lithium, I'm looking forward to the test drives :D

Hopefully they'll allow me to 'open em up' a bit, otherwise I won't be able to comment much about the TTS when driven hard and fast...

All reviews I've read give it the thumbs up in this respect, but I want to experience it for myself :)

[Ice]

Not mine :(

But I wish they were :)

Power to the common people :D

no but youde have one in the blink of an eye !

your right, for what you get they are very very affordable.

[btm]

Power to the common people :D

spending $150K+ on a car is 'common' :confused:

[Wraith]

spending $150K+ on a car is 'common' :confused:


You know what I mean LOL :)

150K compared to the 3 or 500k and up to $2m for the current crop of supercars...makes the GT-R more for the common man and his dog compared to those others :)

[Wraith]

no but youde have one in the blink of an eye !

your right, for what you get they are very very affordable.

Hell yes, with 150k + to spend on a single vehicle, it would be a GT-R for me :)

[btm]

makes the GT-R more for the common man and his dog compared to those others :)

yet we'll see 10 times the amount of porkers on the road...

[lithium]

yet we'll see 10 times the amount of porkers on the road...

i believe most of those Porsches are Boxsters...which in my opinion are as much like a true 911 as a Tiida is like a GT-R ;)

[btm]

i hate the boxter. it looks crap IMO

[Wraith]

yet we'll see 10 times the amount of porkers on the road...

Ah yes, a very good point with very good reasons as to why that is ;)

1st. The Porsche (specifically the 911 model) has been in production for alot longer than the GT-R series...

2nd. The Porsche (again 911) has been on sale since the 1st models all over the World, the GT-R has never until this most recent R35 been given the green light by Nissan to be sold World wide !!! so from now on, it'll be a different story.

If you look at the current sales record, I believe the Nissan will overtake the 911 in sales - Nissan makes 1000p/m and has an order book filled for the whole of next year and beyond to keep up with Worldwide demand !!! that'll be 25,000 units by December next year and including production from December last year and ALL will be sold...

I've also read many a report which stated both Porsche, BMW and Mercedes have lost sales due to the R35.

There are M3's sitting idle at the German storage docks, which would have otherwise been moved abroad, same for 911's and certain Merc models because people have opted for the GT-R instead, especially in the U.K and Hong Kong...

However Porsche have denied the claim and blamed the World' worsening economy ???

[DirtyHarry]

it was bound to happen...those germans dont know when theve been beaten....:-P

[JohnBu]

There are M3's sitting idle at the German storage docks, which would have otherwise been moved abroad, same for 911's and certain Merc models because people have opted for the GT-R instead, especially in the U.K and Hong Kong...


not sure about the mercs and 911s, but there is still a fairly long wait on the M3 in Australia.

[Ice]

i believe most of those Porsches are Boxsters...which in my opinion are as much like a true 911 as a Tiida is like a GT-R ;)


agreed ! boxster is a poor mans porsche

[Wraith]

not sure about the mercs and 911s, but there is still a fairly long wait on the M3 in Australia.

I don't think that's due to demand though John...

It's due to the time needed for delivery via ship which is usually 1.5-3 months anyway, depending on shipping locations and schedules.

On the BMW forum I'm a member of, quite a few E92 M3 and heaps of 135i owners there, the 135i delivery wait periods are twice those of the M3, and they know the 135i is in high demand ATM but sales of the M3 are slow :)

At least that's not as bad as some Audi new models which ATM have up to an eight month wait :eek:

This is however due to high initial new model demand and limited allocation to Australia...

[Wraith]

agreed ! boxster is a poor mans porsche

I'd say based on everything I've heard and read, the current true poor mans Porsche is the Cayman model not Boxster ???

Ironic that is, as the Cayman platform has been purposely detuned in most respects so as not to outshine the 911 series, it has the potential to take over the capabilities of the 911, but Porsche won't do it (yet) because they fear a World 911 hardnose backlash LOL, poor sods !!!

[poita]

but who would buy a model of car that celebrates the biggest terrorist attack ever? :p :p

[Wraith]

LOL ^^^^ :D

For those interested have a read of this from the GT-R Blog...

http://www.gtrblog.com/

Sounds to me certain Porsche co. people are just big sore crying loosers :D

They now also claim that every test/comparo of 911 vs R35 was rigged or something like that :eek: bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D :D :D

Please stop it, your killing me, I can't stop laughing :D they even state that they drove 'their' R35 up to 3rd gear only ??? and it still did it in under 8 mins LOL...

These claims are making the Porsche Motor company look like the biggest joke ever, what an embarassment...

[lithium]

on the top of the gtr blog...optimus prime is now a GT-R :p
back on topic :)

[Vectracious]

Two words describes all of this in terms of Porsche perspective....

"Sour Grapes"

I love my Porsche's but seriously - they're acting like little kids.

Nissan will be laughing though with all the publicity!! :D

[Wraith]

Two words describes all of this in terms of Porsche perspective....

"Sour Grapes"

I love my Porsche's but seriously - they're acting like little kids.

Nissan will be laughing though with all the publicity!! :D

Well with a statement like:

"the GT-R is a big meanie and a no good dirty cheater" - like the car is at fault here ???

along with lots of crying and moaning :eek: how could you Nissan or anyone else not laugh at these particular Porsche representatives LOL :D :D

Acting like little kids is about right Pete...

Sounds like the new kid on the primary school playground beat the crap out of the little rich snob stuck up pretty boy who thought he was better than everyone else and he don't like it and is having a big sook...:rolleyes:

[Wraith]

on the top of the gtr blog...optimus prime is now a GT-R :p

Haha, I'm sure optimus would be proud to be transformed from an 18 wheeler rig to an R35 :D

[DirtyHarry]

man has anyone watched the redone tv series "knight rider"
its a ****en rip of transformers....its pathetic...althought the chick has a sup body...small tities though.

sup to the gtr....(are you afraid of zeee germans)

[Wraith]

man has anyone watched the redone tv series "knight rider"
its a ****en rip of transformers....its pathetic...althought the chick has a sup body...small tities though.

sup to the gtr....(are you afraid of zeee germans)

Off topic, yes I watched it...was a fan of the original 25 years ago !

And it's now the 2nd time they've tried to re-vive it !

About 8 years ago or something like that, there was a similar re-vamp, this time it was left in the hands of a female driver to take over Micheal Knights job at the helm of the kit car - but that never took off after the initial premier episode ??? David Hasselhoff played a much bigger part in that one than he did with the small part in the ending of this most recent premier...

Wonder how this new series will go ???

And yeh, they swapped from a GM Chev to Ford Mustang car this time, can't remember what car it was on the premier of almost a decade ago...

[Vectracious]

And yeh, they swapped from a GM Chev to Ford Mustang car this time, can't remember what car it was on the premier of almost a decade ago...

Are you talking about Knight Rider 2000????

That was awful (the movie) - it was some red concept Corvette IIRC (happy to be proven wrong though)

[bornwild]

a bit odd since every test track comparison of the 911 turbo and GTR was won by the GTR..

And every single one of those GTRs was a 'press vehicle' not a stock, off the showroom-floor, GTR.

[bornwild]

I think you guys, nissan fanboys, are blowing this Porsche claim a little out of proportion. They're saying that Nissan is cheating their own customers. A stock GTR is very different from the 'press vehicles' and even Autoblog did a story on this. They got a customers GTR and compared it to their press vehicle. The press vehicle produced about 50-60kW more power.

I'll try look up the link, pretty sure it was Autoblog or could have been another site.

Ah here we go...link to truthaboutcars is unaccessible though :?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/car-and-driver-how-much-power-does-the-nissan-gt-r-make/

[lithium]

interesting read. the link that article points to is here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/larry_webster/what_is_the_gt_r_s_real_horsepower_column

you have to read till the end. in short they tested 5 GT-Rs, 2 were substantially slower than the first press car they tested, 3 were on par with the press cars performance, including the last one that Nissan claims has the latest ECU map

i have to say though:


And every single one of those GTRs was a 'press vehicle' not a stock, off the showroom-floor, GTR.

are you saying that Nissan has modified their press cars to make them more powerful?

i bet you every single one of the 911s tested alongside the GT-R in those shows/mags was a 'press car' too, so Porsche could have potentially done the same thing to their 911. however if so, they still lost :rolleyes:

Porsche fanboys :rolleyes:

[bornwild]

Let's just say I trust Porka more than Nissan's claims...though until I drive a GTR and Turbo on the same day, I'll let ya know if that happens LOL, I can't make a definitive conclusion about anything...now can I?

I can only say I'd rather buy an F6 Typhoon and mod it and kill both the GTR and Turbo lol :D

[Vectracious]

I can only say I'd rather buy an F6 Typhoon and mod it and kill both the GTR and Turbo lol :D

Get a yellow one and put a beaded seat cover on the front and a cheapo GPS on the windscreen that you never use when you don't know a street and you could make a couple of dollars on a Friday Night!!

[digifish]

This is interesting, and well done...

Nissan GT-R | Porsche 911 GT3 | BMW M3

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8
And vs the 911 turbo...

Nissan GT-R vs Porsche 911 Turbo

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lnmpIqFoYtg


(http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI)

[lithium]

Let's just say I trust Porka more than Nissan's claims...though until I drive a GTR and Turbo on the same day, I'll let ya know if that happens LOL, I can't make a definitive conclusion about anything...now can I?

I can only say I'd rather buy an F6 Typhoon and mod it and kill both the GTR and Turbo lol :D

lol! fair enough mate :) i agree with you on the driving...until one of us gives both cars a punt (unlikely to happen to anyone here!) we are all just mag racing about cars we can't own :p

i do object to being collectively lumped as a 'Nissan fanboy' though. every time you say that, i will be sure to be here to lump you as Porsche fanboy ;)

[bornwild]

I was aiming the fanboy to Wraith :p...not you :p :D

[Wraith]

Yes, ok I'm a fan boy :)

But as I've said in the past, for me its got to do with giving credit where credit is due and deserved ;)

As for press cars being better than others ??? please stop kidding yourself !

I can only keep repeating what's been said in the GT-R thread so many times but some Porsche fan boys (BW) just won't hear or get it :D

So many tests have been conducted using private buyers cars, not press release cars and the end results have always been the same !

The 1st time a GT-R was officially clocked at 3.2sec 0-100km/h and 11.6sec 1/4, it was actually by Edmunds with a recently purchsed privately owned, not press release car !

Any doubters just need to spend some time of any of the numerous GTR forums, to see and read performance results from thousands of R35 owners, the figures are all similar !

As for power levels, once again right from the beginning it's been known there are differences, because of the hand assembled engines, but the differences in power outputs are very small !

Porsche co. and fanboys - keep crying, it's only going to get worse with the V-Spec GT-R and other forthcoming Japanese supercars :D :p

[rjastra]

Porsche co. and fanboys - keep crying, it's only going to get worse with the V-Spec GT-R and other forthcoming Japanese supercars

I am not sure its anything to do explicitedly with Porsches.
What I think is happening is people are starting to tire of the ongoing worshipping of the GTR god.

From what i have read there seems to be outmost admiration and awe of its abilities of the GTR from the worlds motoring press but it doesn't seem to translate into a love of the car. Its driving by numbers and huge amounts of computing power.

Usually the test ends with something like... " The GTR may be faster but I'd buy the GT3/2 because its more exciting, might kill me blah blah"

The GTR has arrived on the scene when just about all of its competitors already have enough power, grip and handling.

[Wraith]

Well I suppose when something comes along that's that good, this is bound to happen...

The hype will eventually die down, but the legend is set :)

[rjastra]

The hype will eventually die down, but the legend is set :)

Legends are usually dead before they become a legend :)

[Wraith]

Legends are usually dead before they become a legend :)

In some cases yes, but there are also living legends too :)

[SSS_Hoon]

In some cases yes, but there are also living legends too :)

yeah like me...:D


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

yeah like me...:D


SSS_Hoon

Hahahahaha LMAO :D

[digifish]

Yes, ok I'm a fan boy :)

I can only keep repeating what's been said in the GT-R thread so many times but some Porsche fan boys (BW) just won't hear or get it :D



That was the point of my YouTube video posts, every one I could (and there are lots there) show the GTR beating various Porsches.

digifish

[Wraith]

That was the point of my YouTube video posts, every one I could (and there are lots there) show the GTR beating various Porsches.

digifish

Good post and point taken digifish, at least by myself and other subjective individuals :)

However for some, we need to fire up the old broken down repeating record player :rolleyes:

[Vectracious]

well wouldn't you be pissed off if your 300K supercar gets beaten by a half price Datsun??? :p\

I'd throw my toys out of the cot too! :D

[digifish]

Good post and point taken digifish, at least by myself and other subjective individuals :)

However for some, we need to fire up the old broken down repeating record player :rolleyes:

In many cases the reviewers (sometimes professional race drivers) were surprised with the result too, so it was not as if they were biased GTR fans.

...and to put my cards on the table, I am not fond of either of the cars, nice as they are.

[Wraith]

well wouldn't you be pissed off if your 300K supercar gets beaten by a half price Datsun??? :p\

I'd throw my toys out of the cot too! :D

Hahahahaha LMAO could just imagine all the dummy spits going on :D

[Wraith]

In many cases the reviewers (sometimes professional race drivers) were surprised with the result too, so it was not as if they were biased GTR fans.

...and to put my cards on the table, I am not fond of either of the cars, nice as they are.


Once again well said !

I like the GT-R but not enough to go out of my way and buy one, even if I could afford it...and I've already mentioned that before.

I've never been a fan of Porsche' but always considered and stated that they are one of the best true sports cars in the World, albeit in that class of exotica which are priced way over the top...

Either way I'd boast about either one of them or another type/brand that came along and took the World by storm the way the R35 GT-R has done so :)

[SSS_Hoon]

don't like the porsches at all not one single bit.

The GT-R i do like it but if i had the cash to buy one i wouldnt buy one.

Id rather something from the AUDI stable still i think. The R8 springs to mind or a RS6 advant(for the kids).

And if i had the cash for a SUPER CAR so to speak, it still wouldnt go on the GT-R as it is only a NISSAN afterall. Its like the nerdy kid at school that can hang with the cool group by default, i just don't see the GT-R as a SUPERCAR even though it can hang with them.

My Super car of choise is a hard one between the Konigseigggggggg and the Lambo.

I do appreciate what the GT-R has done and will continue to do in the future that is for sure, it has made the current crop of SUPERCAR super expensive cars that have been pretty much the same for years and are slapped together without much thought and cost and sold for a fortune, wake up and go shit now we actually have to improve on what we have and actually spend some of our profit on some more R & D and beat this school yard punk.

Well that is how i see it and may or mat not be totally true in the real world.


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

don't like the porsches at all not one single bit.

The GT-R i do like it but if i had the cash to buy one i wouldnt buy one.

Id rather something from the AUDI stable still i think. The R8 springs to mind or a RS6 advant(for the kids).

And if i had the cash for a SUPER CAR so to speak, it still wouldnt go on the GT-R as it is only a NISSAN afterall. Its like the nerdy kid at school that can hang with the cool group by default, i just don't see the GT-R as a SUPERCAR even though it can hang with them.

My Super car of choise is a hard one between the Konigseigggggggg and the Lambo.

I do appreciate what the GT-R has done and will continue to do in the future that is for sure, it has made the current crop of SUPERCAR super expensive cars that have been pretty much the same for years and are slapped together without much thought and cost and sold for a fortune, wake up and go shit now we actually have to improve on what we have and actually spend some of our profit on some more R & D and beat this school yard punk.

Well that is how i see it and may or mat not be totally true in the real world.


SSS_Hoon

Hmmm, I seem to be agreeing with most peoples posts today and that certainly continues with the above - I can echo pretty much all of the above for myself, except what is supposed to be or not to be considered a supercar in terms of brand - for me, if it has ALL the credentials and ALL the right stuff, regardless of brand, if I wanted it, I'd have it :)

They all would have had humble beginnings and notouriety...but all things change ;)

As for some of those other 'posh' Germand brands, looks like what I'll most probably end up with in the nearer term future, bit of a step up from the povo German brands I've currently got :D

[digifish]

don't like the porsches at all not one single bit.

The GT-R i do like it but if i had the cash to buy one i wouldnt buy one.

Id rather something from the AUDI stable still i think. The R8 springs to mind or a RS6 advant(for the kids).



This one compares the R8 to the GTR (and some others)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qreQwTeaVWY

[Wraith]

This one compares the R8 to the GTR (and some others)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qreQwTeaVWY

Yes, there are lots and lots of those digifish, the Audi R8, Porsche 911 and Corvette ZR1 are the 3 most compared cars to the R35 GT-R.

Still in SSSHoon's case he's saying he'd still prefer the R8 regardless of the superiority and lower price of the GT-R :)

Each to his own, the Audis are hard to resist with their super gorgeous looks, beautiful interiors and excellent build quality :)

[poita]

ot i no, but gimme an A6 Avant :D

[Wraith]

ot i no, but gimme an A6 Avant :D

I'd prefer the new forthcoming RS6 sedan... :)

[SSS_Hoon]

rs6 advant thanx better lookinmg then the sedan and more of a family car which is what our next car will be. About 80% its going to be the R36 passat wagon though.

And yeah i was saying that i would take the R8 over the GT-R even though the GT-R performs better and is cheaper.


SSS_Hoon

[digifish]

Nissan responded...

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12

...they also mentioned the many tests across Europe where they matched or beat the 911.

digifish

[sooty]

Well handled by Nissan i reckon, just makes Porsche sound foolish by not buying into it :)

[ASTRAY]

was just reading this, tall poppy syndrome has hit porsche hard!
bunch of friggin whingers.

and i know it doesnt account for such a big time difference, but every r35 has a different power output.


but really, could it....
i know on top gear jeremy was saying every motor is hand built and therefore (as you said) has different power.
so really, there is a slight possibility that it could make that much of a difference.
i was more suprised that tyres could make that much difference.

[rjastra]

I was browsing the newsagents today... latest airfreighted CAR magazine.
Had PCOTY (performance car of the year) test in it... guess what won? And the reasoning is exactly what most worldwide reporters have said on the subject.

[poita]

so true


“I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.

[Ice]

mmm you jealous yet Wraith ? the only pic I got from Auto Saloon, there were constantly people trying to look at the thing.

[Calibrated]

i was more suprised that tyres could make that much difference.

:confused:

that should be pretty self explanatory...

you can have the worlds most awesome car, if you put shit tyre's on it, you're going nowhere.

[Wraith]

Well handled by Nissan i reckon, just makes Porsche sound foolish by not buying into it :)

+ 1 Agree

But that's pretty much what you'd expect of extremely intelligent, professional and quite humble Japanese folk :)

[Wraith]

mmm you jealous yet Wraith ? the only pic I got from Auto Saloon, there were constantly people trying to look at the thing.

Nope not at all !!! :)

Earlier this year (March) I got to see a GT-R (super silver) in the flesh at the Melb. International Motor show and spent quite some time next to it and took loads of pics too :D

[Ice]

Nope not at all !!! :)

Earlier this year (March) I got to see a GT-R (super silver) in the flesh at the Melb. International Motor show and spent quite some time next to it and took loads of pics too :D

I have to say, i didnt think much of it in pictures but up close and personal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOWSERS, it looks like pure sex ! and to think the pricing is going to be relatively affordable for a supercar is even more amazing.

[poita]

love the new sig Ice
hahahahahahaha

[Ice]

love the new sig Ice
hahahahahahaha

Yeh well thats all can do isnt it, haha
I mean its bad enough he beats me hands down in performance but tonight he owned me in FIFA 09 on the PS3 ;) bastard !

[poita]

but wouldnt it be at the fronts not the rears :p

[Ice]

but wouldnt it be at the fronts not the rears :p


Pfft ! ok at the front smartie pants...... yes yes i know :boohoo:

[rusole21]

Was talking to Steve Jones about this last Thursday night at No Limits at Wanneroo raceway. He just laughed. He wiped the floor with all sorts of porches, a lambo superlagera (sp), etc etc at targa west. He was going to take me for a drive in his that night but he had an emergency he had to attend to at home. MOST UPSET!! Still said he will another time. Was a fun drive into wanneroo raceway as i was right behind for about 3-4kms. Not that we where racing. Well i might have been trying but he certainly wasnt. Mind you he did at one stage and man does it sound sweet!

[gman]

Just read through this and Porsche are seriously making themselves look stupid.

Ok here’s Porsches argument.

R35 GT-R is 20kgs heavier than the 911 Turbo.

The extra weight makes 25 seconds difference or increases times from a 7:29 to a 7:54, at the Nurburgring.

Tyres? What a load of sh*t. the R35 tyres are 1 step away from being full r-compounds with the treadwear rating they have AAA170?

Then the apparently never got out of 3rd gear? That surely would have slowed the time considerably due to the fact that the back straight from Galgenkoph to Tiergarten is about 2.75kms long?? WTF!!!

I have driven a few older Porsches includes a 993 Turbo S and a 997 GT3 RS, as well as the new R35 GT-R over the past 6 months for about 1000kms around Hong Kong and China (including a track day at Zhuhai International Circuit in China).

The GT-R feels heavier for sure, the wheel is a little dead until it loads up. Minor probs easily fixed. But holy shit if it doesn't get down a boogie..

It is seriously quick in stock form. The one I have been driving has a Powerhouse AMUSE exhaust and Mine’s ECU in it as well as a few other suspension and brake bits now and it can out easily outrun any stock 997 Porsche in a straight line. It’s only under brakes and during initial turn in that the Porsche is quicker which is all weight related, so just wait until the lighter V-Spec and race models come out.

As for the Cayman/Boxster brigade. Boxster is a horrible platform. Underpowered and build as a hairdressers/posers car.

The Cayman is a different animal. They are possibly one of the best chassis I have ever driven. I LOVE IT!!! Only downside, is no power. And Porsche is SERIOUSLY afraid to give it any more as it will easily out lap the latest 997 GT3 RS.

The German Porsche Tuner Ruf (who is actually classed as a manufacturer as they get bare chassis from Porsche and issue their own TUV approved VIN numbers) was planning a Cayman based race car using a 997 GT3 RSR engine. Porsche threatened them with the withdrawal of their contract and basically cut off their supply to any Porsche inventory.

That how scared Porsche is of upsetting the uber-brand conscious “Porsche-eratti”.

Just wait until the V-Spec gets out in the wild. If the R35 is causing this trouble now..Oh BOY!!! 

[Wraith]

Well said Gman ^^^^ and all correct, especially the point made on those Porsche models...

Yes the Boxster is a POS !

Yes the Cayman is a great platform and purposely detuned to make sure it dosn't outshine or overrun the 911 models !

And then you have the World's 911 bridgadge who full well know this saying things like " oh you couldn't afford the real deal, so you went out and got yourself a Cayman " :rolleyes:

As I mentioned in the Volt thread, Porsche are really looking sad and dissapointing these days doing things like what this thread is about and on a business level buying out other groups like VW to control competing brands who are beginning to build superior vehicles to their own...

Yes, come on down V-Spec (and others from Japan) and continue the Porker belting, love it :D

[digifish]

Yes the Boxster is a POS !



...hang on! I am not a Porsche fan but the Boxer has ~176 kw and 0-100 in 6.2 seconds, and I am sure will leave a Astra VXR in it's wake around any track. Hardly a POS, probably bad value yes. It's a nice car.

digifish

[Wraith]

...hang on! I am not a Porsche fan but the Boxer has ~176 kw and 0-100 in 6.2 seconds, and I am sure will leave a Astra VXR in it's wake around any track. Hardly a POS, probably bad value yes. It's a nice car.

digifish

POS for me meaning:

1. Overrated, overpriced, inferior to the Cayman as per previous posts etc.

2. It may very well be a 'good car' but for the money it should be and there are heaps better cars out there, as we all know for alot less money.

3. As for being a nice car or good looking car, that's subjective, each to their own, in my eyes it's not aesthetically pleasing at all - my boss has one and I have to look at the damn ugly thing everyday LOL :)

As for comparing it to a VXR on the track, I don't want to upset VXR owners, but it is a well known fact that the VXR isn't much of a track miester, it does ok on straighter less cornery tracks...

Also being realistic, about 95% or more of VXR or Boxster owners will never track their car, so those comparisons are irrelevant...what would matter to most would be everyday street performance and the 'basic model' Boxster owner would be pissed to take off from the lights and see a peasant Astra keeping up with him :D

[lithium]

...hang on! I am not a Porsche fan but the Boxer has ~176 kw and 0-100 in 6.2 seconds, and I am sure will leave a Astra VXR in it's wake around any track. Hardly a POS, probably bad value yes. It's a nice car.

digifish

interesting, is it really that fast? a friend gave me a ride once and it sure as hell didn't feel like it would get to 100 in 6 seconds
its definitely a nice car but very overpriced for what you get...you can buy a TT-S for that money and still have change left over

[Wraith]

interesting, is it really that fast? a friend gave me a ride once and it sure as hell didn't feel like it would get to 100 in 6 seconds
its definitely a nice car but very overpriced for what you get...you can buy a TT-S for that money and still have change left over

There are several variants...the base model ($112,400) has a 2.7ltr 6 with 180kw / 273nm - 0-100km/h in 6.1sec for the manual 7.0sec for the auto - that's the Porsche literature...

Compared to a TTS all things considered, I'd definitely buy the TTS even for the same price, but each to their own :)

The TTS with DSG is quicker than even the Boxster S ( which costs $139,700) :)

[nuggz]

i wonder if porsche did their lap with the 180k speed limiter still intact :p

[gman]

The Boxster, and even the Boxster S, isn't that quick in a straight line. It would be "line ball" with a VXR in a straight line IMHO. You can't trust the factory figures for 0 - 100.

It would be under brakes and into the corners that the Porsche would be faster. The Boxster still has (if minimal) chassis flex and scuttle shake due to there being no roof.

But I would put the money on the VXR (especially if it has an aftermarket LSD fitted) on the "mid corner" push out of the corners. You can't beat forced induction torque to pull you out of a corner (except for maybe with a diesel. but then you usually pay a weight penalty and/or gearing problems).

There a plenty of modified VXR's in the UK that are way quicker than the Porsche's. But its a case of apple's and lemons (Porsche drivers usually look like they have been sucking them when they see you go past).

I know the Porsche club stopped the WRX club attending its track days when I was a member. They were getting complaints from members (funny that), especially when we were passing their club champions and fastest cars down the main straight of Eastern Creek and into turn 1. By the braking markers at turn 2 it was all over. Now that was fun. Can't beat the surprised look of a 993 Turbo RS owner when you pass him at 200+. :)

Anyway, the VXR costs half the price. Throw say AUD$10K at a VXR and it will easily be quicker everywhere. Road or track.

Porsche is so worried about new cars like the Focus RS and Renault Megane Cup that they are releasing limited edition runs of cars like the "Cayman S Sport" model (they wouldn-t give it the RS moniker for fear of upsetting the Porsche-o-files) with a re-tuned 3.4 litre giving around 223kw's.

BTW, the Boxster and Cayman are basically the same chassis in two configurations. But it is currently the only model variant in the world where the convertible costs LESS that the hard top model. Go figure on Porsche's pricing there.

[poita]

buy a VXR, spend as much on it up to the value of the porsche.
then see which is better.
the two cars are completely different

[glider]

im not sure if this got posted yet but anyway

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/nissan_answers_porsche_cheat_claim_gtr/

[bornwild]

Comparing a VXR to a Porsche....oh dear, what's next...comparing a TRD Aurion to a HSV GTS?

[Wraith]

im not sure if this got posted yet but anyway

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/nissan_answers_porsche_cheat_claim_gtr/

LOL even without the explanation from Nissan, I'm sure most people around the World know that Porsche is 'pussy footing' around with this whole thing :)

[poita]

nissan have replied

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/nissan_answers_porsche_cheat_claim_gtr/



Will show tyres and video as evidence, offers Porsche driving tips

Nissan is standing firm on its claim to the production car lap record at the Nurburgring despite a blistering attack from Porsche.

And it has the tyres to prove it.

The German sports car maker accused Nissan of using special semi-race tyres when it set the Nurburgring benchmark at 7 minutes 29 seconds in April but the Japanese company is now going public with the actual Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tyres used for the hot lap.

It is also offering video footage shot by the Japanese magazine 'Best Motoring" during the high-speed runs.

Nissan has also questioned the preparation of the customer GT-R used by Porsche for its in-house testing last month, where it claimed it could not get within 25 seconds of the Nissan time and that its 911 GT2 and Turbo were both quicker.

And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R.

The man who led development of the Nissan supercar, chief engineer, Kazutoshi Mizuno, says the lap record car is a regular production GT-R.

“Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy," Mizuno says.

Nissan has taken nearly a week to assemble the evidence it says clearly refutes the Porsche claims.

It has even offered to show the actual tyres from the record run, which were taken back by Sumitomo in Japan for promotional work, to prove they are identical to the rubber fitted to production cars.

"It is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented," Nissan says in its official press release on the Porsche claims.

It states that the record run, by former F1 driver Toshio Suzuki, was even compromised by carrying around 50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment.

Without attacking Porsche directly, it has also questioned everything from the tyres on the customer car its rival used to its preparation and the skill of the driver - who Porsche describes as one of its chassis test engineers.

Nissan says there are two types of tyre fitted to the GT-R, and the clear inference from its reference to the Bridgestone Potenza RE070R is that these were fitted to the Porsche-run GT-R and not as quick on a track as the Dunlops it uses.

It has also indirectly questioned the preparation of Porsche's car by referring to the run-in and service procedure, as well as the special technique for driving the all-wheel drive supercar.

"We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car," Nissan says.

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car.

And Mizuno even says the Nurburgring lap record was not the prime objective of the GT-R program.

“We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars," he says.

[nuggz]

i wish they would cut out all the bull shiet

and do a shootout :D

[Wraith]

i wish they would cut out all the bull shiet

and do a shootout :D

Why ???

That's already been done by hundreds of tests all over the World !!!

Everybody knows who the winner is :)

Porsche and others will be completely gobsmacked once the V-Spec is unleashed :D

[poita]

and so they said on aussie top gear
porsche rang nissan to order spare parts for the GTR cause they did so many laps ha ha ha hsa

[Wraith]

and so they said on aussie top gear
porsche rang nissan to order spare parts for the GTR cause they did so many laps ha ha ha hsa

Yeh, I laughed at that too, bet they did actually hang up on them LOL :D

BTW for those who don't know or asked the question previously, the GT-R lap time on the Aust. Top Gear is with the Haltech car 'RETURNED TO STOCK ECU SETTINGS' !!!!!

ie: it had the 180km/h limiter in place and stock power/torque output !!!!!

Even if they had just removed the speed limiter it would've run a quicker time and most probably be on top of the current 1st place car - even they have acknowledged this fact :)

What a machine and revelation this R35 GT-R has turned out to be...

[bornwild]

Well...if Porsche is wrong why don't Nissan just write Porsche off with a simple laugh...instead Nissan have been going on and on about defending it?

And as for the statement...it wasn't made by Porsche but by a poor engineer that works for Porsche. I'm sure his life is hell at Porsche now...

[SSS_Hoon]

i heard that he know works for KIA?


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

i heard that he know works for KIA?


SSS_Hoon

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D :D :D

[digifish]

...and now the documentary

http://www.viddler.com/explore/NAGTROC/videos/17/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/21/video-nissan-gt-r-documentary-by-national-geographic/)

The ring starts at ~ 42 minutes