Epicademic

[cdxi]

Gents I know this is an Opel forum but I had a bit of a shock on the road yesterday.

I counted 14 brand new Series II Epicas on a drive to and from Bunbury. No, they weren't in convoy and no, I didn't pass the same one 13 times.

Holden marketing is paying off.....pity they made such a balls-up of marketing the Vectra.

Most of the new Epicas had CDTi badges stuck on their bums.

[poita]

:( :(

[Wraith]

I remember Ian (IMAY) making a comment in a thread long ago regarding the Epica - and it's exactly as he predicted, ie: it would sell well even if it's a POS, because normal folk will believe they're getting excellent value for money buying a large, cheap 'Holden' sedan...

[Senor Ed]

Yeah I have driven two epicas, one manual and one auto....

They were given to me when I took cars into service....

They are absolute rubbish.....interior quality poor.....engines underpowered....seat cushions push you in the back....

it is dissapointing that holden actually think it can compete...

[MitchSRi]

The only good Epica is either:
a) Wheels up burnt out in a ditch; OR
b) wrapped around a telegraph pole and written off.

The sooner Holden get in their head that Korean shit is well and truly garbage, and just downright UNSAFE the better.

[imay]

That's right Ange. People will buy them because they are cheap and they have a Holden badge on them. But then people will also buy the (Daewoo) Viva and Barina, too. Can almost guarantee that most of these current Epica, Viva and Barina owners won't buy the same brand next time around.

Saw a (Daewoo) Barina decked out in the Holden/HRT/HSV (yep! A mixture) regalia the other day and nearly had to swallow my lunch a second time around. Big Holden logos on the doors, bonnet and boot, Holden sunstrip, big alloys, big exhaust . . . sad, sad day.

[Calibrated]

That's right Ange. People will buy them because they are cheap and they have a Holden badge on them. But then people will also buy the (Daewoo) Viva and Barina, too. Can almost guarantee that most of these current Epica, Viva and Barina owners won't buy the same brand next time around.

Saw a (Daewoo) Barina decked out in the Holden/HRT/HSV (yep! A mixture) regalia the other day and nearly had to swallow my lunch a second time around. Big Holden logos on the doors, bonnet and boot, Holden sunstrip, big alloys, big exhaust . . . sad, sad day.
you should have shot at it.

[poita]

pity that Grand Theft Auto is only a game, and u cant just pull out a militiary assualt rifle and fuk ppl up

[imay]

I actually had an "aged persons' moment" and felt ssomewhat orry for the guy driving it . . . just in case he had the unenviable task of being the sucker that HAD to drive it. There's always the chance that it wasn't his . . . but anyway, it was sad.

I knew a guy that had to drive a pink company car. "Can't I just drive mine instead?" "Nup, this is your car and you WILL drive it!"

[Wraith]

Saw a (Daewoo) Barina decked out in the Holden/HRT/HSV (yep! A mixture) regalia the other day and nearly had to swallow my lunch a second time around. Big Holden logos on the doors, bonnet and boot, Holden sunstrip, big alloys, big exhaust . . . sad, sad day.

Holy crap...

Please don't anyone post pics of this abomination...

[Calibrated]

I actually had an "aged persons' moment" and felt ssomewhat orry for the guy driving it . . . just in case he had the unenviable task of being the sucker that HAD to drive it. There's always the chance that it wasn't his . . . but anyway, it was sad.

I knew a guy that had to drive a pink company car. "Can't I just drive mine instead?" "Nup, this is your car and you WILL drive it!"
yesterday i saw a silver diahatsu copen. the plates were "PINK" with a pink background. and yes, it was an old bald guy driving it. if he isnt gay, he is loved by many gays now.

[Wraith]

yesterday i saw a silver diahatsu copen. the plates were "PINK" with a pink background. and yes, it was an old bald guy driving it. if he isnt gay, he is loved by many gays now.

Bwahahahahahaha :D

On the other hand, it could've been his young daughters car :o

[Shaun]

The only good Epica is either:
a) Wheels up burnt out in a ditch; OR
b) wrapped around a telegraph pole and written off.

The sooner Holden get in their head that Korean shit is well and truly garbage, and just downright UNSAFE the better.

Where do you get you USELESS information in regards to UNSAFE.
Latest version of the Barina now comes with Side Airbags. Not back for sub 15k car.

Ive only being saying that This is a car that Holden Will move from the very start and holden have moved over to a Daewoo based product to gain volume in the market. You people make me laugh. You all know better then Holden's Sales Marketing team.

[imay]

Hey Shaun, don't take it so seriously, man. Anyone would think you own massive shares in GMH.

Side air bags doesn't make a car SAFE, it merely gives the occupants a better chance if/when the big bang happens, and it certainly doesn't make it good quality/value for money. I've got side air bags in my convertible, but I don't think for a minute they are going to be much use if I land upside down or get T-boned by a Mack truck. I put more faith in the other things like: ESP, good quality ABS, handling, driver car control, build quaity, etc.

Sure they (Daewoos) are selling and will continue to do so because some people are after CHEAP transport (bells and whistles will always attract buyers who don't know better) and they don't particularly care what it looks like (this is why Nissan are still selling their Micra and Tiida - surely they're not selling because of looks!). I think the main argument in these posts is that people here are venting their frustration at Holden not continuing with a reasonable quality product from Europe (after all this site is call OPELaus - if that offends you start up a new site called Daewooaus).

I'm sure that most of us understand Holden's economic thinking by providing a product that people can afford. Would I buy one though -- NUP! Would I buy another Holden after what I've been through, the stories I've heard and the products they are handing us -- NUP!

[bornwild]

Shaun, get it that side airbags don't mean shit(and this is for the third time I'm telling you this just to inform you and make you know things better).

The chassis has to be designed with good crumple zones in place and the Barina doesn't have that. Crumple zones make a car safe. Just check out the new Smart range.

As for the Daewoo shit selling, well imay is just about right. It's cheap and has a Holden badge...what does a fat bitch on the doll(who's probably working and cheating the system) care that it's actually a Daewoo?

[carpy]

Well lets hope Holden marketing don't learn the hard way Like Mercedes did when they dumped the third world MB series Vans here, Korean sourced junk with a Mercedes badge stuck on it.
I deal in MB spare parts and still can't believe customers disbelief when they see that the parts are labeled made in Korea. Their reaction is allways "but its a Mercedes".
I delight in telling them what the original salesman obviously didnt.
Mercedes learnt that the spin off of selling a cheap alternative gave bad PR to all its commercial range.
Holdens current marketing strategy is to ignore some of their best products and claim that they are to expensive. This then justifies their desire to stop sourcing Euro based products just to try and capture an ignorant market and maybe make some short term finacial gain.
It will blow up literally in their face as people will move to Ford Focus, Fiestas, VW etc

[Shaun]

Well lets hope Holden marketing don't learn the hard way Like Mercedes did when they dumped the third world MB series Vans here, Korean sourced junk with a Mercedes badge stuck on it.
I deal in MB spare parts and still can't believe customers disbelief when they see that the parts are labeled made in Korea. Their reaction is allways "but its a Mercedes".
I delight in telling them what the original salesman obviously didnt.
Mercedes learnt that the spin off of selling a cheap alternative gave bad PR to all its commercial range.
Holdens current marketing strategy is to ignore some of their best products and claim that they are to expensive. This then justifies their desire to stop sourcing Euro based products just to try and capture an ignorant market and maybe make some short term finacial gain.
It will blow up literally in their face as people will move to Ford Focus, Fiestas, VW etc

What Benz Dealership do you work for ? i Used to work for Mercedes Benz Australia Pacific owned Heavy Vehicle Dealership.

[tuzinski]

Where do you get you USELESS information in regards to UNSAFE.
Latest version of the Barina now comes with Side Airbags. Not back for sub 15k car.
can i put you in a steal metal box with a bunch o pillows and smash you into a pillar?
you will see how useless the airbags are in a car that cannot absorb the impact

[carpy]

Shaun, I deal with aftermarket Benz parts also BMW,VW ,Volvo etc. I really wouldnt recomend Benz dealers for parts but in my case their servicing dept was outstanding for warranty issues.

[Shaun]

can i put you in a steal metal box with a bunch o pillows and smash you into a pillar?
you will see how useless the airbags are in a car that cannot absorb the impact

When will theses cars be ever involved in a " HIGH Speed" crash. There intended purpose is to get from A to B. And there hasnt been any test conducted since the face lift and they have made more improvements on the Barina in the facelift .

I see the Opelaus Engineer team has been to Korea again to conduct testing at there test with GMDAT

[bornwild]

Jeez Shaun, why do we have Safety measures in cars at all?? I mean, only a tiny percentage of cars produced is ever involved in an accident...

[cbrmale]

I don't think I've seen more than a dozen Vivas or Epicas on the roads in Canberra since they were launched. Late registration Astras would outnumber both models about three to one, so despite the price disadvantage the Astra continues to sell in relatively high volumes.

Canberrans may be discerning motorists, or typically they have more disposable income, or probably both.

Doesn't the Daewoo Barina rate 1.5 stars in Euro NCAP safety assessment (rhetorical question)? It's gonna take more than side airbags to make a badly designed car like that half-safe. I'd much rather be in my wife's XC Barina (four-star) than a Daewoo.

[Jerram]

I see the Opelaus Engineer team has been to Korea again to conduct testing at there test with GMDAT

Yeah can I say dog tastes a whole lot better then you'd think it would:D

In all seriousness the Epica/New Barina are probably still a heck of a lot safer then many if not most cars on the road (watch the 5th gear video of that Renault taking on an old volvo and you'll see why), it's just that in high speed crashes the difference between an average car and a good car means life (of some kind) and death. The typical vibe around here is that Euro manufactured cars are safer then those from the pacific rim (ie not really Japan), and we do have NCAP and ANCAP tests to back that up.

In saying that though I'd much rather be hit at 30km/h from the side driving an epica instead of my vec b- for the mere reason it at least offers some form of side airbag protection.

[Black Nugget]

even though it is daewoo crap its good to see diesel cars gaining popularity in the family size segment.

Although the car itself is not great, its success may encourage more manufacturers to bring in diesel versions or create diesel versions(think commodore) or at least bring diesel more into the spotlight. I think few families out there are aware of the numerous benefits diesel could bring to the family car....

more popularity could even see greater pressure placed on the monitoring of diesel prices...

[bornwild]

I agree with the diesel argument.

It's great to see a diesel sell.

[Shaun]

Jeez Shaun, why do we have Safety measures in cars at all?? I mean, only a tiny percentage of cars produced is ever involved in an accident...

I dont dissagree that cars need safety features. But the point im making is the test conducted are a load of shit. New Falcon received one 5 star rating for one test. on other test it recieved 4 3 and even a 2. But Ford now use it as a marketing tool. This dosent mean its that Falcon will stand up any better then a Barina in a real life incident.

What you all seem to forget is they are " Simulated test " . There are many other factors involved when a real life accident happens. The car could have worn compoents different angle of impact can vary the level of damage to the car and the person them selves. Hence why Police in each state now have a crash investigation unit which is made up of fronsic Scientist investigate all MVA's these days.

The difference can be a 3 degrees between the simulated test or a worn compoent.

Good example is of an Audi A4 RS4 wagon that was ripped apart on in a High Speed Incident . The pictures show the car torn apart. Driver may have walked away but point im making is that thats a car with numerous saftey features and it still wasnt capable of remaining in on piece. EVERYTHING has it's breaking point.

If you want a safe car. Buy a Volvo. They are renound for there saftey features and have introduced many of the todays standard features 1st and about 15 years a head of other manafacturers.

[Wraith]

^^^^Volvos have always been considered amongst the safest if not the safest cars on the road...

Don't know in terms of years how far ahead they are to 'the majority' of other manufacturers in this area, but they've had this reputation for decades, even in the 70's as I can remember...

[bornwild]

Not anymore Wraith :) (and they were renowned for safety because they were built from solid steel :p which isn't exactly safe but hey it was the 80's and 90's)

And no, Merc introduced most(if not all) the safety features first.

That's beside the point though...point is, a car's safety is determined from the day it's chassis is designed. Air-bags are just there to prevent you from hitting your head too hard off something...it won't prevent fractured hips, legs, spines nor massive internal bleeding which are the biggest causes of death resulting from a car accident.

However, in saying that...a 2008 rated 2-star barina is most likely safer than a 2000 rated 5-star vehicle. So, yes, Shaun is probably right when he said the Barina is safer than 'most cars on the road today'.

[Wraith]

Not anymore Wraith :) (and they were renowned for safety because they were built from solid steel :p which isn't exactly safe but hey it was the 80's and 90's)

And no, Merc introduced most(if not all) the safety features first.

That's beside the point though...point is, a car's safety is determined from the day it's chassis is designed. Air-bags are just there to prevent you from hitting your head too hard off something...it won't prevent fractured hips, legs, spines nor massive internal bleeding which are the biggest causes of death resulting from a car accident.

However, in saying that...a 2008 rated 2-star barina is most likely safer than a 2000 rated 5-star vehicle. So, yes, Shaun is probably right when he said the Barina is safer than 'most cars on the road today'.


So they're not top of the tree anymore in crash safety to their occupants ???

I'm sure Volvo still market them emphasizing this aspect, maybe riding on past reputation ???

[bornwild]

Well you can't really rank companies in terms of safety when there is only that much that can seperate them apart. But ranking them in terms of safety innovation and etc. Volvo is a fair bit behind. They had nice safety concepts(ala C30 Concept) but never put them in production. Renault and the big 3 from Germany are pretty much leading innovators in safety tech as of late.

[cdxi]

The most relevant safety feature in any car is the driver........Closely followed by the drivers in other cars on the road, of course.

However, the argument about safety and design integrity has also crossed my mind. My Vectra C CDXi has a Euro NCAP 4 star rating, even with 6 'bags, ABS/EBD/EBA/CBC/TC/ESP+ and a bunch of other supplementary restraints. How well this star rating protects me is the question I would like answered.

Am I equally as well protected from similar impacts in a 4 star XC Barina, with only 4 'bags and ABS/TC or a a star Viva with just 4 'bags and no ABS/ESP?, Or am I more vulnerable in my Vec than in a 4 star VE Commodore with 6 bags and all the electonic active and supplementary safety features?

Is a 5 star Astra as safe as a 5 star Falcon?

All the NCAP star ratings are lab generated and a good guide to crash protection of certain types. Real world crash data has no doubt contributed to the design integrity of all-new chassis technology (ie VE/new Camry/Aurion etc) but how do you compare apples with apples?

The 4 star Camry/Aurion had a higher overall points rating than the VE when tested yet I would think the integrity of the passenger cell in the VE is greater.

Perhaps the NCAP rating system should be broken down into component parts.....maybe independent ratings on the effectiveness of

active safety (on-the-road tests etc)
crash avoidance technologies ESP/ABS etc)
passive features (supplementary restraints)
crashworthiness (chassis integrity/lab tests etc)The current Series II Epicaleptic has a 4 star Euro NCAP rating, and I think a 5 star Korean NCAP assessment. There's no doubt it has better crash avoidance and passive safety features than the equally (Euro NCAP) rated Viva. There's no doubt as well that with its equal rating to the VE Commodore, it would not perform as well in impact tests.

So, I s'pose I'm no clearer in this than anyone else. The JF Viva, ZC Vectra, EP Epica and VE (also VT-VZ) Commodore all have 4 NCAP stars but huge discrepencies in active/passive/supplementary and chassis safety design & technologies.

Which one is the true 4 star car?

[Shaun]

Bornsoft.... Volvo Indrouced SIPS WHIPS to name a few saftey features. All of which the others have now adopted.