Fifth Gear : Focus vs Astra Nurburgring

[rjastra]

and the result... Astra is rubbish it seems. Lighter and 20kw up on Focus yet quite a bit slower round the track.

[poita]

links to review?

[bornwild]

Focus = Worlds Best small car chassis

[dieselhead]

yeah, just saw the episode tonight. however, i still believe the focus looks like a dog ;)

go to finalgear.com for details.

[Calibrated]

and the result... Astra is rubbish it seems. Lighter and 20kw up on Focus yet quite a bit slower round the track.

do you EVER have anything good to say about the astra's? every single post i read from you is putting them down.

[rjastra]

do you EVER have anything good to say about the astra's? every single post i read from you is putting them down.

I had lots of good things to say about my SRi 2.2. But the AH turbo with the high powered engine seems to be a bit of a dog from all reports.

[Calibrated]

I had lots of good things to say about my SRi 2.2. But the AH turbo with the high powered engine seems to be a bit of a dog from all reports.
driven one for yourself?

[kabel]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjastra http://www.opelaus.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.opelaus.com/forum/showthread.php?p=345248#post345248)
I had lots of good things to say about my SRi 2.2. But the AH turbo with the high powered engine seems to be a bit of a dog from all reports.



driven one for yourself?

Would it matter if he had already formed an opinion ?
Still each unto their own, makes for good reading !

[Wraith]

Focus = Worlds Best small car chassis

+ 1

I thought it was a well known fact that the Focus is top of its class in terms of handling - so no surprises it beats the Astra round a track !!!

Talk to anyone who's driven the 2, they'll always comment on how much better a Focus drives, corners and feels on the road compared with an Astra ;)

The new Xr5T also looks heaps better than an Astra and has that sweet sounding and powerful IL5 turbo engine - I'd have one of those over any AH Astra anyday :)

[bornwild]

The Astra has a much much better quality feel inside the cabin though. :)

I'd probably still buy the Astra just because I'd never reach the limits of either of these two cars. :)

[Wraith]

The Astra has a much much better quality feel inside the cabin though. :)

I'd probably still buy the Astra just because I'd never reach the limits of either of these two cars. :)

That's true, although the new Focus is an improvement and the Xr5T has some cool features like boost gauge factory standard :)

Comparing current Astra turbo models to the turbo Focus models, purchase prices included, Xr5T all the way for me :)

[Huhness]

Focus has factory boost, oil temp and pressure gauges plus the new LV model has keyless ignition plus an awesome voice control feature to make calls and control the stereo! Which at first i though would be tacky and not work but its flawless! Great seats! And the 2.5L I5 turbo charged engine is soooo smooth! You cannot comment untill you have driven this car! The boost comes on smoothly not kicking you in the arse and the amount of pull even in the wrong gears! The interior is accented by red 'submarine' lighting at night which makes the car look even cooler!

The astra is a great car but just didn't appeal to me this time.

Both go fast but the choice comes down to what you feel more comfortable in.

[Wraith]

Focus has factory boost, oil temp and pressure gauges plus the new LV model has keyless ignition plus an awesome voice control feature to make calls and control the stereo! Which at first i though would be tacky and not work but its flawless! Great seats! And the 2.5L I5 turbo charged engine is soooo smooth! You cannot comment untill you have driven this car! The boost comes on smoothly not kicking you in the arse and the amount of pull even in the wrong gears! The interior is accented by red 'submarine' lighting at night which makes the car look even cooler!

The astra is a great car but just didn't appeal to me this time.

Both go fast but the choice comes down to what you feel more comfortable in.

Well put and totally agree - I too wasn't a fan until I inspected one up close and personal and immediately accepted the fact that it was o/a superior to an Astra...and for all the modders/tuners out there, the 2.5ltr turbo donk is a real gem too and you'll never get an Astra to sound as good :)

The interior ambient lighting is a copy cat feature of BMW's Audi's and Merc's have had for ages, no surprises as the Focus has its origins from Germany :)

[rusole21]

Hope Shaun doesnt read this. He will be shattered!:D

[9090GO]

I'll still drive a Astra!

[Shaun]

and the result... Astra is rubbish it seems. Lighter and 20kw up on Focus yet quite a bit slower round the track.

Last time 5th gear tested the VXR and Focus the VXR was quicker one handed mind you in the hands of tiff.

Shaun

[dieselhead]

See, that's the problem, you need a proper haired chest to drive the Astra as it should be done :)

[bornwild]

Astra - quicker in straight line

Focus - quicker around track

[lampshade]

and the result... Astra is rubbish it seems. Lighter and 20kw up on Focus yet quite a bit slower round the track.


The Vxr is 16 sec's quicker round the ring than the ST :rolleyes:

[Charlatan]

The Astra has a much much better quality feel inside the cabin though. :)

I'd probably still buy the Astra just because I'd never reach the limits of either of these two cars. :)

Really?? When I tested the Astra I thought it had the cheapest nastiest interior I had come across. The 03 SRi Barina was a much better fit, feel and finish. I walked away from the astra at that point.

[bornwild]

You sure you weren't sitting in a Viva?

[GreyRex]

Really?? When I tested the Astra I thought it had the cheapest nastiest interior I had come across. The 03 SRi Barina was a much better fit, feel and finish. I walked away from the astra at that point.

Really? Because I came from a Barina SRi, to an Astra. Fit and finish? Ok... lower the drivers window all the way in the Barina, and then close the door. It will rattle. Do the same in an AH, it won't. I had body creaks coming from my 2 year old Barina; none in my 2 year old Astra. When i had the Barina in reverse the brakes would screech; not in the Astra. The Plastic used for the door handles would sometimes creak a little bit too.

As everyone knows the suspension bushes creak in the AH, and i've had the occasional squeak or rattle, but that's it.

Don't get me wrong... for me the Barina was more fun, but to say the AH's interior was the cheapest nastiest interior you'd ever come across is a bit of a stretch!!

I've always preferred the XR5/ST, but when I went to buy mine... the Astra was a couple of grand cheaper, which swayed me

Anyway back on topic lol :)

[Shaun]

Astra - quicker in straight line

Focus - quicker around track

Not by tiffs test . when he drove it round there track. Astra had about a car lengths lead at the end . ill find the clip on you tube.

the gap was similar to driving with two hands as it was o driving with one hand.

[OPC]

and you'll never get an Astra to sound as good :)

:)

honestly i dont know where you come up with these opinions hahahaha

may aswell say "you'll never get a GTR SKYRICE to sound as awesome as a 427 chev"

friggin ell

[Wraith]

Astra - quicker in straight line

Focus - quicker around track

VXR has more power than the Focus stock vs stock...

If given the same power/weight ratio to both cars - Focus will eat an Astra in the straight and on the track ;)

[Wraith]

honestly i dont know where you come up with these opinions hahahaha

may aswell say "you'll never get a GTR SKYRICE to sound as awesome as a 427 chev"

friggin ell

My opinion in this case is based on having heard both cars in question ;)

I've driven and taken note of the exhaust note on a stock VXR and to be honest, it sounds like, well nothing - typical 4 pot sound !!!

I've been in a stock Xr5T Focus and the exhaust note was very nice, more audible and a much nicer rumble than the Astras 4 pot !!!

I've heard (on vids) the exhaust note from VXR's with aftermarket exhausts along with all the 'snap crackle and pops' LOL :D - for me, not something that excited me !!!

I've heard an Xr5T with a modded exhaust and it sounded awesome - IMHO very hard to pick which would be better between it and the rumble of a Wrx !!!

I'm sure you are well aware yourself of the beautiful exhaust note made by the IL5 turbo engine ;)

Hopefully that answers your question :)

Oh and I'll admit, the GT-R's TT V6 sounds great, but it'll NEVER sound as good as a Chev 427 or any Chev V8 for that matter :)

[Shaun]

Granted . Volvo's 5 Cylinder is a nice sounding engine. Its unqiue thats for sure.
How ever after spending a day with the XR5 Boys about two months ago our findings of both cars are impressive. VXR has it all over the Focus exiting a corner in terms of pulling way. Underbrakes the XR5 Turbo will gain ground. Straight line speed there is some difference . VXR pulls away nicely . (not hugely but nice gap) My comments ARE unbaisis about this.

The XR5 Guys are impressed with how the VXR preforms and even commented that its nothing like the reviews they had read or seen on tv shows such as top gear. Likewise Archie and my self both were impressed with the XR5 T Focus.

99% of people commenting wouldnt have even sat in a VXR let alone drive one on a daily basis. But you all seem to be motoring experts on the car.

Heres a thought. Why dont you buy one then pass judgement. Typical so called experts strike again.

[Shaun]

The Vxr is 16 sec's quicker round the ring than the ST :rolleyes:

Theres the proof really. What more can you ask for.....

[Hackstra]

well said

[rjastra]

I wonder if a STOCK AH SRi T would be 16 seconds faster round the 'Ring than a stock XR5/ST ;)

I suppose a XR5 owner could take the $7000 he saved buying his XR5 (over a VXR) and do some serious mods ;)

[Calibrated]

I wonder if a STOCK AH SRi T would be 16 seconds faster round the 'Ring than a stock XR5/ST ;)

I suppose a XR5 owner could take the $7000 he saved buying his XR5 (over a VXR) and do some serious mods ;)
all i heard was blah blah blah.

no a stock sri-t wont be 16seconds quicker. it has 19kw less than the XR5. the vxr on the other hand, will give it a hiding. remember, the VXR is not just an SRi-T with more boost ;)

almost like comparing a wrx to an sti.

besides. if i could afford a nurburg right now, it would be parked in my garage already. i wouldnt even consider anything else.

[Huhness]

as said elsewhere the XR5 has been around the ring in the same time the VXR did. By driver Patrick Bernhard - 8.35

http://www.dubna-racing.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=820&st=0&p=15413&#entry15413

[SSS_Hoon]

Grr damm laptop being to sensitive and going back and dleting everything i had typed grrrr.


Try again shall we.

First of buy a GTI and be done with it already hehehehe:D

Both the VXR and the XR5 have their own things that each side of the fence will like and will find to dislike about the other, that is just the way it is and the way it always will be, all makes of cars have their die hard fanboys/girls LoL.


I have been in both of the cars and the inside of the VXR seems to claustrophobic compared to the XR5(the G SRiT was similar to the VXR on the inside).

Have heard both and stock for stock the VXR has a better sounding idle but on full tilt the XR5 sounds better, have not heard a modified XR5 so cannot comment on that.

Have been inside a VXR for a drive(although it was by Miss Daisy) i wasnt all that impressed by it either, it was early on in the ownership though so will forgive him for that i guess.

Now as for straight line i would have to say from experience the VXR would own the XR5 that i for sure. As for around a track well not too sure i do remember this one time at band....wait that not right... Not long after OPC got his rear sway bar put on i followed him in the GTI and i have to say the way it took corners entering and exiting at speed was very impressive that is for sure it looked good and surefooted in all ways and had the straight line speed to back it up too that is for sure.

They both have there own yes's and no's, for me i wouldn't take either of them(unless someone wants to give me one for freee that is;) ). Although they both look great in white that is for sure.

If i had to pick one i think i would take the XR5 but it would be very close and only bcoz i would want the Burg VXR and the xtra cost over the XR5 i don't see it being worth it.



SSS_Hoon

[AH Sri Turb04]

I test drove both - xr5 and ah sri turbo. Ok, the xr5 should be compared against the VXR (apples with apples)...but I found the xr5 had more wheel spin at take off and therefore you have to be a bit more gentle on the gas , but I found it more solid on the road. The downer: when I test drove the xr5 I had the sales person in the passenger seat and I couldn't give it a little bit of gas!!! I gave the sri turbo a bit of gas and loved it....that's most probably why I bought it...

I must admit the xr5 interior was more appealing, esp the recaro seats and the gauges but I wanted a 2 door and the sri turbo just 'felt' right for me....its definitely a personal taste of vehicles!

btw, I would have got a V35 infinity 350GT if I could have!!!!

[digifish]

Astra - quicker in straight line

Focus - quicker around track

This is a good point. In real life straight-line is probably more important as you can't drive on public roads like 5th gear were doing, but you can legally (meaning as long as you don't light the tires up and make excessive noise) and safely drag to 60/80 (whatever the speed limit is) from the lights.

EDIT: Although I think the police can book you for "Excessive display of acceleration" in some states :)

digifish

[Wraith]

To all people noting track times of the VXR vs Focus ST - shouldn't it be against the similar class Focus Xr5T ;)

1st off the Xr5T HAS matched the best that the VXR can do - that's a fact, so to keep bringing up the fallacy that VXR (best Astra) is quicker round the Nurb. than the ST Focus is simply idiotic...it should compared to the Xr5T.

Although in actual fact one could argue that the Xr5T is in the same class as the Sri T and that the new upcoming RS Focus is the VXR equivalent...think about that one ;)

Secondly, as I've already mentioned, the VXR has more power and a better power/weight ratio than the Xr5T (stock vs stock) therefore it is abundantly clear the Xr5T has a superior drive and chassis...so given the same power/weight ratio or a superior margin which the VXR has over to the Xr5T, the Focus will romp all over the VXR...

Now you don't have to own or even test drive either one to be able to know and/or discuss the simple facts, do you ?? but there are those of us who have at least driven both - fair enough we havn't owned them over an extended period of time, but a long test drive is enough to pick out certain qualities and differences and have a clear idea of which is better ;)

As some else mentioned good idea to spend some of that better part of 10k change from buying an Xr5T over a VXR on mods/tune - speaking for myself I know which one would be the clear favourite, all things considered :) oh that would be the Xr5T

[bornwild]

People have to learn that cars don't compete technically based on price.

[bornwild]

Ange Focus ST is XR5T :p The ST nameplate is used in Europe. :)

[Wraith]

People have to learn that cars don't compete technically based on price.

Yes they do - price or cost is ALWAYS one of the most considered factors in purchasing any car, enthusiast or not...

However for enthusiasts it often comes down to personal favouratism over cost, but always within ones budget :)

I'll bet everyone says I bought this because of blah, blah, blah reasons - but if I had the money I would've bought that instead... ;)

[Wraith]

Ange Focus ST is XR5T :p The ST nameplate is used in Europe. :)

Apologies, my bad, I was unaware of that...I thought the ST was the basic N/A powered model.

Still the main point/s I was trying to state in my earlier post stands :)

[Calibrated]

Apologies, my bad, I was unaware of that...I thought the ST was the basic N/A powered model.

Still the main point/s I was trying to state in my earlier post stands :)
lol. big big fail on your behalf

[bornwild]

Yes they do - price or cost is ALWAYS one of the most considered factors in purchasing any car, enthusiast or not...

However for enthusiasts it often comes down to personal favouratism over cost, but always within ones budget :)

I'll bet everyone says I bought this because of blah, blah, blah reasons - but if I had the money I would've bought that instead... ;)

Ange, keyword in there..."technically", meaning engineering wise etc.

Consumer wise, of course price plays a role. :)

edit: my point was that disregarding the price, the Focus is the better car at what it's trying to achieve...technically.

[Wraith]

lol. big big fail on your behalf

Yes, my bad on the models confusion, but as said, ST/Xr5T being one and the same, Euro/Aust. designations respectively, my points regarding VXR vs Xr5T are still valid and fact :)

[digifish]

Ange, keyword in there..."technically", meaning engineering wise etc.

Consumer wise, of course price plays a role. :)

edit: my point was that disregarding the price, the Focus is the better car at what it's trying to achieve...technically.

Price is interesting. In my experience people set a price-range and go about spending budget+15%.

What I am saying is that people rarely look all that carefully at cars less than they can afford, only those at or slightly above it. Which means if you have 75K to spend you are likely to spend 85K...and not look at anything less than 70K.

I am in an Astra because I decided to give the cheaper cars a look and the CDTi was such a hoot I bought it.

[Wraith]

Ange, keyword in there..."technically", meaning engineering wise etc.

Consumer wise, of course price plays a role. :)

edit: my point was that disregarding the price, the Focus is the better car at what it's trying to achieve...technically.

I see and totally agree with that one :)

[poita]

born you are the last person to be slanging around about how someone fuked up.
ange made a mistake, admitted it, got over it.
you'd still be crying and bitching for another 4 fukin apges about how your right, even if you are clearly wrong.

the forum is jsut turning into a giant shit fight again, if it continues bans will be handed out to all involved.
basically, pull ur heads in

[bornwild]

born you are the last person to be slanging around about how someone fuked up.
ange made a mistake, admitted it, got over it.
you'd still be crying and bitching for another 4 fukin apges about how your right, even if you are clearly wrong.

the forum is jsut turning into a giant shit fight again, if it continues bans will be handed out to all involved.
basically, pull ur heads in

Just what the **** are you on about? Bundaberg get to your head too quick?

[poita]

wtf has me living in bundaberg go to do with anything.

[bornwild]

I meant the beer...

Anyhow, I didn't attack Ange, simply pointed it out. He was confusing ST with XR5 cause the last series Focus had an ST and an RS.

[poita]

the beer right.........
you mean bundaberg rum.

close enough i guess.......

[Aussie-in-London]

The so called 'track' is the handling circuit at Millbrook and consists of short 100m straight followed by a circular route consisting of a 'track' made up of a slight jump , hard left , 6 left and right bends a long right hander and back to the straight.

When Vxl hire out millbrook they use this for fast laps with a pro driver to shake the customer up a bit. As its been described, Good fun but pretty academic.

For development work its used to shakedown steering gear to make sure it all works before going on the bigger track.

A lap takes about 45 seconds.

Fifth Gear should stick to their usual race track than this course as it tells you little about a car, apart form steering feel which VBH comments on all the way through it.

ST performs well on that sort of circuit though.

This is a good read if you havent already done so,
line up of hot hatches, one driver The Stig and a track.
Interesting in his opinion and times achieved for each hatch.
http://www.hothatchheaven.com/files/the_stig_test.pdf

[lampshade]

as said elsewhere the XR5 has been around the ring in the same time the VXR did. By driver Patrick Bernhard - 8.35

http://www.dubna-racing.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=820&st=0&p=15413&#entry15413

Na, sorry m8 but that time was done by a tuned Xr5/ST the time for the standard car is 8.51

[Charlatan]

but to say the AH's interior was the cheapest nastiest interior you'd ever come across is a bit of a stretch!!


not ever, just in what I was looking at.

[Vectracious]

LOL @ people getting so worked up about cars they don't even own....



First of buy a GTI and be done with it already hehehehe:D


Do you get a hair straightener with one of those as well? :p

[Shaun]

LOL @ people getting so worked up about cars they don't even own....



Do you get a hair straightener with one of those as well? :p



HAHA Hair Straightener and a 6 months manacure comes standard with the GTi Golf hahahahahaha

[Apex]

Imagine what the upcoming Focus RS would do to a VXR then.. Considering the ST is the SRI-T equivalent.

Must say I agree that the Astra is a boring car.

[Calibrated]

Imagine what the upcoming Focus RS would do to a VXR then.. Considering the ST is the SRI-T equivalent.

Must say I agree that the Astra is a boring car.
isnt the new VXR going to have some rediculous power figure, like 210kw? i'll see if i can find a link, but i've read that a few times before.

[Wraith]

born you are the last person to be slanging around about how someone fuked up.
ange made a mistake, admitted it, got over it.
you'd still be crying and bitching for another 4 fukin apges about how your right, even if you are clearly wrong.

the forum is jsut turning into a giant shit fight again, if it continues bans will be handed out to all involved.
basically, pull ur heads in

Thanks Pete, it's all good, the thread's still decent :)

I think we've all confused models of one type or another at some stage, no real harm done :)

[Wraith]

Imagine what the upcoming Focus RS would do to a VXR then.. Considering the ST is the SRI-T equivalent.

Must say I agree that the Astra is a boring car.


Yes, this would be an interesting comparo and I already alluded to it in an earlier post...

As they stand ATM the VXR would be no contest to the RS, but you'd also have to take into account that the RS will cost more than a VXR or maybe not ??? since it's been watered down with FWD only and tune of only 206 or 221kw ?? certainly if the RS comes in at mid-high 40k's it'll be serious competion not only for the VXR but also with the parts sharing MPS 3 and the Golf Gti.

I'm sure we've had articles on this before, but from what I've seen/read so far the new VXR will not have a major power hike, nor are any of the new Astra turbos, they're going the other way around with less power/smaller engines for better efficiency and enviromental concerns...

[bornwild]

The new RS will actually be an EVO/STi competitor, believe it or not. Just like the last RS was.(last RS was quicker around the track than both the EVO and STi of that era)

[Calibrated]

The new RS will actually be an EVO/STi competitor, believe it or not. Just like the last RS was.(last RS was quicker around the track than both the EVO and STi of that era)
the RS is basically a road legal WRC focus :D

[CORZZA]

The only great thing about the focus is the 2.5 Volvo engine.

the normal run about focuses are poo poo

[Apex]

the RS is basically a road legal WRC focus :D

No its not. It’s a fettled ST. The STI/EVO-X will stomp it.

[bornwild]

That's what people were saying when the last RS was about to come out...and then....BANG! :D

[Apex]

If they set it up correctly maybe… I know the hottest Renault Megane is quicker cross country than a stock STI so FWD can be quite quick.. But if it rains :eek:

[Wraith]

If they set it up correctly maybe… I know the hottest Renault Megane is quicker cross country than a stock STI so FWD can be quite quick.. But if it rains :eek:


That's true, we've got to remember most comparos are on dry surfaces - when it's wet or a loose surface AWD cannot be beaten, although some well set up RWD and FWD cars come close...

Pity this new RS isn't AWD, but seeing it will be FWD it should be alot cheaper and well under the cost of Evo/Sti, this should make it very stiff competition...

[Apex]

That's true, we've got to remember most comparos are on dry surfaces - when it's wet or a loose surface AWD cannot be beaten, although some well set up RWD and FWD cars come close...

Pity this new RS isn't AWD, but seeing it will be FWD it should be alot cheaper and well under the cost of Evo/Sti, this should make it very stiff competition...

Pity it isn’t RWD, AWD sucks.

Anyone remember the Sierra and Escort :dance:

[Wraith]

Pity it isn’t RWD, AWD sucks.

Anyone remember the Sierra and Escort :dance:

Hopefully you'd think they would've moved on since those days and have a much better modern set up...

If so, AWD is definitely the go ;)

These days most AWD's are pretty clever with either RWD or FWD dominant set ups and some allow you to choose variable torque split or 100% one way or the other and wiz bang electronics controlling it all, definitely what I'd prefer :)

[Apex]

Meh, sorry after driving a Cosworth Sapphire a few years back im converted to RS RWD power!!

I love going sideways and doing dohnuts though.. AWD can’t do this safely.

You have a Silvia so im sure you can relate :)

[Wraith]

Meh, sorry after driving a Cosworth Sapphire a few years back im converted to RS RWD power!!

I love going sideways and doing dohnuts though.. AWD can’t do this safely.

You have a Silvia so im sure you can relate :)

Yes they can, if you divert 100% of the torque to the rear wheels...

As stated you can do that with some AWD cars :)

Silvia is an excellent handling platform yes, but in terms of having the sort of fun you've mentioned above it pales compared to the RWD V8's I've had over the years :)

[bornwild]

AWD can do donuts quite easily...Porsche Turbo?

But yeah, the Ford Cosworth days are legendary. Seen the prices for 2nd hand Sierra Cosworths? They want $80,000 for one!!!!

[Vectracious]

AWD can do donuts quite easily...Porsche Turbo?


Exactly - its teh sideways thats tricky in a non adjustable AWD (eg std WRX) on grippy surfaces.

[Apex]

Yes they can, if you divert 100% of the torque to the rear wheels...

As stated you can do that with some AWD cars :)

Silvia is an excellent handling platform yes, but in terms of having the sort of fun you've mentioned above it pales compared to the RWD V8's I've had over the years :)



What production car can be switched to 100% rear torque and can hold it for doughnuts if desired? Bogan question I know :p

I know You can put a trick-switch in Skylines and Porsche 911’s but they re RWD with front wheel traction/save the bacon control..

[Wraith]

Check out the new TT/S on track TTEETT, not exactly sideways, but some good ol tame drifting fun even with AWD :)

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/research/story/first_drive_audi_tts/

Sti can really do the sideways stuff :)

[lampshade]

Yep the XR5/ST handles like a dream :p

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii111/POT51E/CrashedST.jpg

P.S I would swap my left nut for an unfettled Sierra Cosworth (in moonstonegrey)

[lampshade]

And another superb XR5

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk304/mattywardster/DSC00438.jpg

[Huhness]

what exactly are you trying to achieve??? :confused: Whats pictures of accidents have to do with how the car handles??

[sooty]

Reading the Age this weekend there was a little article in drive about used car: HSV VXR. The most interesting part read in the competitors section

"Ford Focus XR5: Another hugely entertaining hot hatch from Europe. Five-cylinder engine is great fun and it looks the business. Chassis isn't as sharp as the HSV's and, again, there's no cruise control."

Article was by David Morley if i remember correctly, so turns out the better chassis is driver opinion based :)

[Shaun]

what exactly are you trying to achieve??? :confused: Whats pictures of accidents have to do with how the car handles??

Same thing could be asked about the comments about the Nurburgring VXR . What do people think they will achieve by bagging out the VXR just because a Review hasnt looked at the VXR in a favorable manner.

I believe lampshades was having a light heart dig at everyone who says the " XR5 Turbo is best handling hatch"

[Shaun]

Reading the Age this weekend there was a little article in drive about used car: HSV VXR. The most interesting part read in the competitors section

"Ford Focus XR5: Another hugely entertaining hot hatch from Europe. Five-cylinder engine is great fun and it looks the business. Chassis isn't as sharp as the HSV's and, again, there's no cruise control."

Article was by David Morley if i remember correctly, so turns out the better chassis is driver opinion based :)

Exactly. One Reviewer can look in favor of the car then another. It dosent mean shit. It comes down to what YOU as the buyer wants. if you want something thats more conersivative then you buy the likes of the Golf SRi T . If you want something in the middle of the range with good power levels and nice handling then you look for a XR5 T or a Audi A3 Renualt Magine Sports. If you want something thats more aggressive (as i think this is a nice way of not putting the others down) then you look towards a VXR MPS

[OPC]

i reckon the reviewers think the XR5 handles corners better than the VXR because it SLOWER than the VXR

;)

[Wraith]

i reckon the reviewers think the XR5 handles corners better than the VXR because it SLOWER than the VXR

;)

That's an interesting point...probably more conservative drivers might actually come to that conclusion ??

As for those Focus accidents, LOL I'd say reckless, drunk or over excited driving there for sure...

Lets face it, no matter how good, anything can be crashed with wrong or simply stupid driving, the higher the performance capability though, the more one will want to 'push' the envelope and the more chance of an accident.

[Calibrated]

i reckon the reviewers think the XR5 handles corners better than the VXR because it SLOWER than the VXR

;)
thats quite possible. watched the episode this morning. looked like vicky was really hammering the focus through, but the vxr looked like she was driving miss daisy.

[SSS_Hoon]

thats quite possible. watched the episode this morning. looked like vicky was really hammering the focus through, but the vxr looked like she was driving miss daisy.


Shaun have u been giving driving lessons, on how to drive a VXR? :D


SSS_Hoon

[lithium]

i reckon the reviewers think the XR5 handles corners better than the VXR because it SLOWER than the VXR

;)

:D good point

i remember reading a comparison review about fast hatches (VXR, GTI, MPS3, XR5 and TypeR) and they said 'the type r handles well....but then you aren't going very fast' :p

also re. pictures of wrecked XR5s, i know the pics were posted in humour. however how many pictures of wrecked Enzos have we seen on this forum....i guess that means the VXR outhandles an Enzo too :rolleyes:

98% of the time i dare say the driver runs out of talent before any of these cars do!

[JohnBu]

(article from the age) VXR doesn't have cruise control???

surprising, since its on the TS turbo

[Calibrated]

(article from the age) VXR doesn't have cruise control???

surprising, since its on the TS turbo

:confused: of course it does

oh, and they also stated
Against: No Automatic wtf, granny's dont buy VXR's

[bornwild]

Why people want an automatic in a sports car is beyond me...like seriously

[JohnBu]

Why people want an automatic in a sports car is beyond me...like seriously

if they drive 90% of the time in peak hour traffic...

DSG is a good compromise, but i'll stick to manual for now.

i also question the reliability and servicing cost of DSG once it reaches 5, 10 years old.

[Calibrated]

if they drive 90% of the time in peak hour traffic...

then buy a pos excel auto for traffic driving. coz the last thing you want, is when you get that 10% to have fun, and its an auto.

[lampshade]

VBH, great t1ts and a better driver than ex touring car driver tiff who beat the ST with one hand behind his back in a vxr round a track:confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSfvL3oajF0&feature=related

[Apex]

Check out the new TT/S on track TTEETT, not exactly sideways, but some good ol tame drifting fun even with AWD :)

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/research/story/first_drive_audi_tts/

Sti can really do the sideways stuff :)


Nice.

Sure it was sideways but you can get an Astra that sideways only it doesn’t self correct like the VAG cars I can’t help but laugh at the way it handles though, it’s not drifting or smooth as such its simply correcting snap overseer and switching to under steer and then fighting in-between both I have driven the Golf R32 and it does the same.

They are working on a RS-TT that should be interesting.

Subaru and Nissan seem to have the balance well sorted, Nissan more and I believe it has to do with their engine configuration, Mitsubishi have compensated with advanced electronics that seem to do the job well.

It’s just personal preference I suppose and im unfortunately not a fan of AWD.


ST vs VXR. TBH if was going to get a “hot” hatch I would be looking at the new Mini Cooper works.

[bornwild]

MC Works??? You're joking, right?

If anything, a renault clio sport.

[Apex]

MC Works??? You're joking, right?

If anything, a renault clio sport.

We don’t currently get the Cleo Sport but have read good things.

What do you know about The Cooper Works?? The new one is a very capable car with lots of style. I shit you not.

[bornwild]

I know it sounds very capable but don't think it's any good...the last one was horrible. Understeers like a little bitch doing a headjob

In comparison to the Clio that is...the Clio is a benchmark.

[Huhness]

I know it sounds very capable but don't think it's any good...the last one was horrible. Understeers like a little bitch doing a headjob

In comparison to the Clio that is...the Clio is a benchmark.
HAHAHAHA :clap:

The new MCW is a nice step forward from the previous version. Not sure about handling but the new engine matched with a turbo instead of the SC makes sense.

[Calibrated]

its still the smallest of them all (and lightest) which also makes it the most impractical.

have renault upped their build quality yet? coz thats where they have been failing.

[JohnBu]

not sure what version of the R53 Mini Cooper you drove Bornwild, but the Mini Cooper S did not understeer, infact would be one of best handling fwd cars around (but you are correct clio sport would handle better. I was cross shopping the SRiT with the clio sport 172/182).

The JCW mini would be even better .. i agree a great hot hatch, however it is priced excessively- by the time you drive it away, you could have the base model Sub STi.




have renault upped their build quality yet? coz thats where they have been failing.

nope, as shody as ever :P

[bornwild]

I referenced it to the Clio. I drove the last JCW Mini and a mates Clio(last get also). The JCW just had it's nose dug into the ground when compared to the lightfooted Clio. The clio just turned in, no dramas.

And yeah, Renault are still as bad as usual with quality.

What I'd like to see in the next-gen Mini is RWD. They got the tech, use the BMW 1-series setup.

[Wraith]

Nice.

Sure it was sideways but you can get an Astra that sideways only it doesn’t self correct like the VAG cars I can’t help but laugh at the way it handles though, it’s not drifting or smooth as such its simply correcting snap overseer and switching to under steer and then fighting in-between both I have driven the Golf R32 and it does the same.

They are working on a RS-TT that should be interesting.

Subaru and Nissan seem to have the balance well sorted, Nissan more and I believe it has to do with their engine configuration, Mitsubishi have compensated with advanced electronics that seem to do the job well.

It’s just personal preference I suppose and im unfortunately not a fan of AWD.


ST vs VXR. TBH if was going to get a “hot” hatch I would be looking at the new Mini Cooper works.

The guys comments test driving it were very favourable :)

I've never seen a previous TT go and handle that good, Audi has really raised the bar with the new TTS, finally it has the performance to match its looks, as always, it's biggest concern or bad point is the price tag and the forthcoming TTRS will be at least 20k+ dearer again - we're now talking 140-150k on road with a good selection of options, as a TTS costs just under 120k on road with most option boxes ticked...frightingly expensive...

I'll let you all know how the TTS and S5 go after a test drive of both next weekend - Sat. 27th.

Although as said in another thread, I'm definitely not going to get the chance to fang and drift them...

As for the Mini, never been a fan and in my eyes, this new ones even worse, but having said that, I've only heard good things from owners who have them, I just can't stand the interior, especially the dial layout - yeeesh....

[Wraith]

have renault upped their build quality yet? coz thats where they have been failing.


From what I've researched on the 207CC all reports suggest it's a big improvement over the 206CC in terms of build quality, BUT as always, the problems start showing up down the track...time will have to pass before we can accurately answer if Pug. has lifted their game in that department :)

[rjastra]

we're now talking 140-150k on road with a good selection of options, as a TTS costs just under 120k on road with most option boxes ticked...frightingly expensive...


Stop ticking all the options then :) I can't imagine what you would want to add to the standard car?

Just about any imported car in that price range has an eye-wateringly long list of available options. 80% of them add no real worth to the car.

Much like people who spec the $3500 factory fit sat nav system. Why? That's more than a decent sized LCD home TV!
I blame novated leasing!! :)

For a luxury/sports/import the only real options to tick (if not standard) are leather, metallic paint and a reasonably nice set of alloys.

[Wraith]

Stop ticking all the options then :) I can't imagine what you would want to add to the standard car?

Just about any imported car in that price range has an eye-wateringly long list of available options. 80% of them add no real worth to the car.

Much like people who spec the $3500 factory fit sat nav system. Why? That's more than a decent sized LCD home TV!
I blame novated leasing!! :)

For a luxury/sports/import the only real options to tick (if not standard) are leather, metallic paint and a reasonably nice set of alloys.

Good points rj, it does come nicely equipped...and as is it's 106k on road, then you start thinking for an extra 15k I can have the works, damn hard not to get sucked in for all that when it's a car of this calibre :)

As for options I'd want to have, things like full alarm system, extended leather pack, LED interior lighting package and lots more don't come standard and that extended leather pack alone adds 4k :(

Could skip the pro Nav. but then you don't get DVD/TV player, CD changer, Ipod input and the Bose 12 speaker + sub 250watt RMS system either...you have to opt for one to get the other or all of the rest and those nice coloured cross stitched seats add a further 10k :mad: bastards

[chrissn89]

Good points rj, it does come nicely equipped...and as is it's 106k on road, then you start thinking for an extra 15k I can have the works, damn hard not to get sucked in for all that when it's a car of this calibre :)

As for options I'd want to have, things like full alarm system, extended leather pack, LED interior lighting package and lots more don't come standard and that extended leather pack alone adds 4k :(

Could skip the pro Nav. but then you don't get DVD/TV player, CD changer, Ipod input and the Bose 12 speaker + sub 250watt RMS system either...you have to opt for one to get the other or all of the rest and those nice coloured cross stitched seats add a further 10k :mad: bastards

All i can say is i want your job. 10k for coloured cross stitched leather seats wow :eek:

[JohnBu]

i can't see why you have to pay an extra $2k for metallic paint on any car.

its just how euro manufacturer rips you off. even VW tries to pass itself off as a luxury car by charging $1k for metallic paint.

i can't seeing meticallic paint as an option on an Jap car.

does lexus charge you extra.. and by all accounts their paints are as good as it gets.

the actual addditional cost to the manufacturer for meticallic paint over flat is what $50?

[Wraith]

All i can say is i want your job. 10k for coloured cross stitched leather seats wow :eek:

LOL, dosn't matter what job you have, all stealers (dealers) will take your money :)

In this this case we're talking about Audi and they're one of the most expensive prestige marques...

Interior option for 'around' 10k extra, at least that's what I've been told so far (ie: to have this in the coupe) is drop dead gorgeous, some pics, it's called chennai brown with impulse stitching...

http://i33.tinypic.com/314dumw.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/256e6fd.jpg

This interior can be had standard, but it'll cost 'around' 4k extra as it features the extended leather pack, it's called signal orange and black with contrast stitching...

http://i37.tinypic.com/6sglc0.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/16a1yk7.jpg

Both being considered with white exterior colour, either way, I'm not buying anything - yet :)

[lithium]

the standard interior already looks pretty swish. orange and brown one looks like a football!

and to think i was stoked when i got my $50 seat covers from autobarn :dance:

[chrissn89]

WOW thats a shit hot interior. Makes me smile, just thinking about me telling my friends that they can do and cant do. Im crazy about the leather in my astra, i wouldnt let anyone in that car, all i can say is WOW very nice indeed.

[Wraith]

the standard interior already looks pretty swish. orange and brown one looks like a football!

and to think i was stoked when i got my $50 seat covers from autobarn :dance:

Hahaha LOL, it's actually a very brownish colour with hardly any orange colour, pics on computers mess with the colour :)

The standard one I've seen and does look great, but the chennai brown is totally mouth watering with that wide and contrasting cross stitching :drool:

[Wraith]

WOW thats a shit hot interior. Makes me smile, just thinking about me telling my friends that they can do and cant do. Im crazy about the leather in my astra, i wouldnt let anyone in that car, all i can say is WOW very nice indeed.

Yep, your right and that's what sucks you in and makes you weak at the knees with these cars or any others this nice for that matter...

The Audi TTS with it's sex on wheels good looks, that awesome interior pictured above and now with true high performance is a very desirable machine :)

I'd be in the same boat as you, ie: only the missus and I and maybe some friends would ever ride in the thing if I got one...

Here's a nice exterior pic of a white one...

http://i34.tinypic.com/2e4f8so.jpg

[bornwild]

You'd let me ride in it, of course :D:D:D:D

[poita]

you'd need to take your own rolls of sorbent born.
dont want you dribbling shit on the seats

[Wraith]

You'd let me ride in it, of course :D:D:D:D

Most definitely BW :)

If and I say ' if ' I ever got one of these, (the missus has it as her 1st choice, my 1st choice is the 135i) I know you'd be one person who would really appreciate it - you give me enough grief LOL on how you push German superiority all the time, so either way TTS or 135i you'll be wrapped to check it out :)

Although as a matter of interest, all Audi TT models are actually produced (assembled) in Hungary not Germany, but all the parts are from Ingolstadt...hope I got the spelling right :)

See how we go over the next 12 months before I make a final decision, then there's a waiting period of 6-8 months on a TTS and 4-5 months on a 135i, so it's a long term prospect...

[Wraith]

you'd need to take your own rolls of sorbent born.
dont want you dribbling shit on the seats

LOL if that happened, at least it would match the seat colour :D :p

Don't think the TTS would be that scary though, maybe tuned to 260kw it might cause some panic :)

Will know about that one after my test drive next weekend :)

[chrissn89]

Beautiful car, i wish you all the best in getting the BMW or the Audi, both amazing cars.

[Wraith]

Beautiful car, i wish you all the best in getting the BMW or the Audi, both amazing cars.

Thankyou chrissn89 :)

I've been shortlisting for some time now - but one of these 2 is probably going to be the end result...

If it were up to my missus, the dotted line at the Audi stealers would already be signed and we'd already have started the loooong wait...however because of the price tag, I'm still very hesitant...it makes me think for 'x' extra I can get the new R35 GT-R, but then that's going way over the top in terms of purchase price and the missus ain't a fan of that car :( she wants the Beemer or the Audi or the Merc (SLK 200 or 350) her fav. being the TTS, I can't really complain with her taste though :D

[Calibrated]

go the 135i! i'd have one if i could afford it :(

[Wraith]

go the 135i! i'd have one if i could afford it :(

I'm with you Calibrated, that is my 1st choice...

As previously mentioned, I'll end up spending the same amount on this car in the end as what the TTS will cost me, despite being over 20k cheaper to begin with...

On the other hand, the upgraded AWD and upgraded DSG trans (something the 135i will never have, at least the AWD anyway) along with its drop dead good looks and 'no need' to stuff around and add or mod, except for a simple tune on the TTS is starting to really grow on me...I really did want my next car to incorporate AWD and a good automated manual trans.

[bornwild]

135i anyday Ange :D RWD+TT V6, can't beat that :D

[kabel]

I thought the topic was ``Fifth Gear : Focus vs Astra Nurburgring ``??

PS: Audi or BMW tough call !

[Wraith]

I thought the topic was ``Fifth Gear : Focus vs Astra Nurburgring ``??

PS: Audi or BMW tough call !

LOL yes apologies on that one :o

Seems to happen on most threads, different topic or question comes up and bam - off we go on a tangent :)

[kabel]

LOL yes apologies on that one :o

Seems to happen on most threads, different topic or question comes up and bam - off we go on a tangent :)

Well staying `off topic` then...have you driven either the BMW or Audi yet ?
I work around the corner from The Audi Centre here in Perth and they have a white TTS with NSW plates in the showroom,saw a Rep take it out the other day when I was going for my lunchtime walk...they look good on the road.

[Wraith]

Well staying `off topic` then...have you driven either the BMW or Audi yet ?
I work around the corner from The Audi Centre here in Perth and they have a white TTS with NSW plates in the showroom,saw a Rep take it out the other day when I was going for my lunchtime walk...they look good on the road.

This coming weekend - Sat 27th I'll be test driving the TTS and S5 back to back from Audi Melb. City centre branch :)

Yesterday, I went to the Audi complex in Burwood, huge showroom that one and they had 2 TTS' there, white and grey.

I'll be test driving a black TTS, they had a white demo when I was there the previous weekend, but it sold the same day...and yes they look absolutely stunning on any angle on the road or parked standing still and the interior is even more stunning and this new TTS has stunning performance too, hence my interest in this new variant, whereas I walked away from the initial MkII TT when released early last year (my missus wanted to buy one) and I've never been a fan of the overrated V6 variant...with forced induction, different story :)

As for the BMW 135i I tried getting a test drive as long as 3 months ago, but it was next to impossible, as all 135i's held by dealers were pre-sold.

The opportunity exists now though as demand has died down a little and demos are available, so I should get to do that one soon :)

By the time I'm ready to act (buy) demand should've died down on the TTS as well (apparently except for only 2 or 3 demos ATM, all of the Aust. 1st batch are pre-sold)...this should make 'price haggling' more effective...

By that time though the new Nissan 370Z will be out and I read in current Motor Mag, Nissan is considering a V8 variant of the Z :eek: these are also cars I must check out and fully compare before deciding :)

[JohnBu]

135i anyday Ange :D RWD+TT V6, can't beat that :D

TT Inline 6

[bornwild]

My bad...in-line

[kabel]

This coming weekend - Sat 27th I'll be test driving the TTS and S5 back to back from Audi Melb. City centre branch :)

Yesterday, I went to the Audi complex in Burwood, huge showroom that one and they had 2 TTS' there, white and grey.

I'll be test driving a black TTS, they had a white demo when I was there the previous weekend, but it sold the same day...and yes they look absolutely stunning on any angle on the road or parked standing still and the interior is even more stunning and this new TTS has stunning performance too, hence my interest in this new variant, whereas I walked away from the initial MkII TT when released early last year (my missus wanted to buy one) and I've never been a fan of the overrated V6 variant...with forced induction, different story :)

As for the BMW 135i I tried getting a test drive as long as 3 months ago, but it was next to impossible, as all 135i's held by dealers were pre-sold.

The opportunity exists now though as demand has died down a little and demos are available, so I should get to do that one soon :)

By the time I'm ready to act (buy) demand should've died down on the TTS as well (apparently except for only 2 or 3 demos ATM, all of the Aust. 1st batch are pre-sold)...this should make 'price haggling' more effective...

By that time though the new Nissan 370Z will be out and I read in current Motor Mag, Nissan is considering a V8 variant of the Z :eek: these are also cars I must check out and fully compare before deciding :)
Can`t warm to the 1 series BMW myself,it`s just an odd car...but there are plenty on the road, so my opinion must be at odds with most peoples.
Nissan......go the juggular...get a GTR-35.
I saw the GTR-35 compete a few weeks back at Targawest,there were only about a handful of spectators for stage one on the Friday so I was able to see it up close. It went on to win after the 3 day event,beating Jim Richards :clap:
Just an awsome car !

[GreyRex]

I've test driven the 135i with a mate for over an hour a couple of weeks ago and another mate of mine has just bought himself an S5. Both VERY nice

[Wraith]

Can`t warm to the 1 series BMW myself,it`s just an odd car...but there are plenty on the road, so my opinion must be at odds with most peoples.
Nissan......go the juggular...get a GTR-35.
I saw the GTR-35 compete a few weeks back at Targawest,there were only about a handful of spectators for stage one on the Friday so I was able to see it up close. It went on to win after the 3 day event,beating Jim Richards :clap:
Just an awsome car !

Totally agree with you Kabel, if I could or wanted to spend 145-160k I'd get an R35 GT-R no question !!! and it would be a good investment too IMHO, I believe their value will hold if not go up over time with this particular model of the GT-R here in Aust.

As for the 1 series Beemer, yes lots around, but most are the hatch - very ugly...

Not so many 135i's around, in fact they are about in small numbers and the coupe looks heaps better than the hatch, it's growing on me and I like it because despite being pricey, it has excellent bang and value for money - comparatively speaking :)

[Wraith]

I've test driven the 135i with a mate for over an hour a couple of weeks ago and another mate of mine has just bought himself an S5. Both VERY nice

Miz. you should write up what you thought about them both :)

I'll write about my test drive impressions of the Audi S5 and TTS after the weekend...

I'm really looking forward to driving the new TTS this weekend and the 135i later this year :)

S5 - too pricey for me, would rather a GT-R and pocket the change ;) just curious to see how it compares to the new TTS as I've been told the TTS can 'pip' it :)

[Wraith]

Aaaarrrggghhhh...

Just got a call from the Audi stealer and told the black demo TTS car (which I've mentioned in a previous post) and that I would be test driving this weekend has just been sold doh :doh: LOL...

Now I'll have to wait for them to get another, so my test drive/s may not take place this weekend afterall :(

Damn, this is what happened months ago when I tried getting a test drive of a BMW 135i...

Oh well demand will eventually die off, then I'll get my chance...hopefully they get a hold of another demo for me this weekend :)

[kabel]

Totally agree with you Kabel, if I could or wanted to spend 145-160k I'd get an R35 GT-R no question !!! and it would be a good investment too IMHO, I believe their value will hold if not go up over time with this particular model of the GT-R here in Aust.

As for the 1 series Beemer, yes lots around, but most are the hatch - very ugly...

Not so many 135i's around, in fact they are about in small numbers and the coupe looks heaps better than the hatch, it's growing on me and I like it because despite being pricey, it has excellent bang and value for money - comparatively speaking :)
Agreed the coupe` is much better but stilll...I don`t know,have seen a couple on the road and they look better than in the press.....
On the other hand the GT-R 35........ just sell a few of your other cars first !
Consumers certainly are spoilt for choice at present by the car manufacturer`s.
PS
I believe there are two GT-R 35 in Perth both for track duty

[Wraith]

Agreed the coupe` is much better but stilll...I don`t know,have seen a couple on the road and they look better than in the press.....
On the other hand the GT-R 35........ just sell a few of your other cars first !
Consumers certainly are spoilt for choice at present by the car manufacturer`s.
PS
I believe there are two GT-R 35 in Perth both for track duty

Wish I could, sell some of my other cars that is :)

Thing is I've always been a mad car freak and I'm never happy with just the one car...ever since I got my licence (almost 25 years now) I've always owned 3-5 cars at least at any one time, I love so many different types I can't live with just one and that trend and passion hasn't changed at all, if anything I want more :)

I'm totally in love with the R35 GT-R, but am still relunctant to spend that kind of money on only one car, (will hopefully get to drive one before years end) over the next 2-3 years, I plan on acquiring 2 or 3 different types of cars to satisfy my passion and interests of what I want to have and enjoy, I'm wanting one luxury/prestige hot coupe (TTS, 135i, 370Z ??) a decent practical everyday ride (too many to choose from, maybe a good oiler ??) and a toy or project to play with now that my vert is complete (still considering a CV8Z Monaro) and fitting a TT kit :)

At least that's what I'm planning and working hard towards, see what happens :)

For the moment, I'm just looking forward to test driving some of those mentioned above :)