Euro Astra Dead?

[cyclonic]

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2955143.aspx

Apologies if its been already posted.

Basically the article states that Holden will drop the Euro-sourced Astra and move to a Korean-sourced replacement in a two-tier line up. The range will be based on the upcoming Chevrolet Cruze (Chevy Cobalt/Chevrolet Lacetti replacement)/Daewoo Nubira.

1st tier will be a lower-range spec along the same lines as the current Viva (Daweoo Nubira/Chevrolet Lacetti), 2nd tier will be further up-sec, different suspension and drivetrains and will be similar to what Holden has done with the Holden Captiva/ Captiva MaXX (Opel Antara).

Holden has local input in the design process as well.

Fingers crossed this is speculation but with GM needing to make a profit worldwide out of small cars and the Aussie dollar making the profit margin on the Euro Astra small, I think this may well come to pass.

[Wraith]

Yes, think we all knew this was coming....

hmmm, time for some more jokes, DaewooAus kind of has a ring to it :D

As for the badge swappers, they'll all now be known as Daewoo-lisers LOL :D

Seriously though, sad thing, don't think there's any chance I'll ever buy another new Astra (except maybe a twin top before they stop selling or S/H in future) or another new small Holden ever again...:(

[tomtom]

Well well well. Look who's astra's just went up in value. :D

[SSS_Hoon]

Well well well. Look who's astra's just went up in value. :D


Actually, i think they will drop in value like the barina did.

The VXR's may keep or increase, but i think the normal ones will drop.


SSS_Hoon

[Charlatan]

Well well well. Look who's astra's just went up in value. :D

Yeah good luck with that

[cyclonic]

I think you can kiss goodbye to your resale for the new ones, though, interestingly, the Barina XC's have been holding value, the TK Barina's haven't been from what i've seen.

Holden locally is turning into an Australian version of Chevrolet Canada.

[Shaun]

Actually, i think they will drop in value like the barina did.

The VXR's may keep or increase, but i think the normal ones will drop.


SSS_Hoon

Hmm Maybe a Nurburgring Would be a nice little investment.... I doubt it though. Althought they come with a different build number.. 1 through to 20.

[bornwild]

Guys, we will continue to have the euro-astra....whether it will be built in Belgium or not is anyones guess.....but it will be Euro-engineered. Trust me

[KingOfAstras]

Guys, we will continue to have the euro-astra....whether it will be built in Belgium or not is anyones guess.....but it will be Euro-engineered. Trust me
Euro engineered, yes. But it will still have a VIN # starting with a K...

[bornwild]

Euro engineered, yes. But it will still have a VIN # starting with a K...

What I'm saying is, it will be like buying a BMW 3-series...it's a South African car. Get me?

[KingOfAstras]

What I'm saying is, it will be like buying a BMW 3-series...it's a South African car. Get me?
Yeah I get you... I suppose we'll see how the Daewoo goes after it's released.

[cyclonic]

What I'm saying is, it will be like buying a BMW 3-series...it's a South African car. Get me?

Just a change of manufacturing local.... or so they say....

Well, we won't know till it happens, so i'd keep an eye on the GM-DAT website for product additions. I'm also keeping an eye on the GM websites for more info.

[MitchSRi]

Car companies SHOULD NOT be allowed to have a differently sourced model with the same name.

In other words, if its euro sourced and always called the Astra, any replacement from the Daewoo (we cant builld cars for shit) factory, should by LAW be forced to change to another name. "Boat" or "watercraft" perhaps.

This would at least stop people getting conned into thinking they are buying a well built practical euro car, when instead they are buying a 1 star safe coffin on wheels.

[glider]

Car companies SHOULD NOT be allowed to have a differently sourced model with the same name.

In other words, if its euro sourced and always called the Astra, any replacement from the Daewoo (we cant builld cars for shit) factory, should by LAW be forced to change to another name. "Boat" or "watercraft" perhaps.

This would at least stop people getting conned into thinking they are buying a well built practical euro car, when instead they are buying a 1 star safe coffin on wheels.

a very big +1

[poita]

Totally agree mate, the Barina is a classic example.

[rjastra]

Totally agree mate, the Barina is a classic example.

Exactly... we went from the well built/reliable Suzuki based version to that unreliable/slow Opel version in the early 1990s ;)

Works both ways ;)

[btm]

and there is that new ad on tv about astra being better then corolla... must be trying to work up an audiance before switching the car

[poita]

Exactly... we went from the well built/reliable Suzuki based version to that unreliable/slow Opel version in the early 1990s ;)

Works both ways ;)

now to a daewoo

[USC]

the Daewoo astra might be better than the opel astra..u never know...

[KingOfAstras]

the Daewoo astra might be better than the opel astra..u never know...
Let's just wait for the accident statistics!!!

[bornwild]

and there is that new ad on tv about astra being better then corolla... must be trying to work up an audiance before switching the car

Is it not?

[SSS_Hoon]

the Daewoo astra might be better than the opel astra..u never know...


if it is so it will only be due to the fact that it wont go as fast hehehehe.

Still a tad confused, is it still EURO designed just not built in a EURO factory is that all that is changed?

SSS_Hoon

[cdxi]

It's a bit like bornwild said - it'll be like a 3 series BMW, the Golf or the Focus being European designed and engineered, but built offshore in a factory with lower overheads and labour costs.

But also think platform sharing: the next gen Astra and the forthcoming Cruze/Lacetti will share substantial technologies and probably many hardpoints. One will be a less expensive version of the other, with different sheetmetal and specs. VAG does it with Golf/A3/Octavia/Cordoba variants, marketed under different brands and built in different factories.

GM will use the new platform (Epsilon or Gamma??) under the Cruze/Lacetti/Viva with additional engineering for the Opel/Vauxhall and Saab versions. Holden will get the two versions of the platform - one budget (Viva) and one premium (Astra), most likely from the same factory in Bupyeong. GM NA will sell the Cruze (Chevy, budget) and the Astra (Saturn, premium).

The North American market avoids customer confusion as GM sells a range of distinct brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn and their associated values) whereas GM in Australia has just Holden to distribute its mass-market product. Niche product for GM is distributed here via Saab, Hummer and (soon) Cadillac brands.

The new platform product - whether it be the budget or premium product - will be far more market competitive than both Viva and Astra are now. Both will feature a full complement of safety gear (5 star ANCAP for both), up-to-date engine technologies and 6-speed man/auto transmissions.

To be dismissive of these products because of the factory in which they will be built is premature and short sighted. The componentry and build quality (anyone with an Opel, Peugeot, Citroen product or a late 90's Merc will know European quality is patchy) are the wild cards - not the engineering. Yes, this is the yardstick by which many will judge, but there will be huge improvement in these areas as well.

The Europhiles amongst us may have to consider the Saab 9-1 for a future GM small car or change brands altogether. In Australia we will just have to accept that the source of new, small and compact GM cars will be from South Korea. We also have to accept that the products from this area of the world will in fact be world class in their engineering, safety and engine technology.

[MatsHolden]

Let's just wait for the accident statistics!!!

It's designed and engineered by OPEL. Also the old Daewoo days are a thing of the past with the next generation coming through. They've got state of the art production facilities at GMDAT now.

[Red AH SRI T]

Car companies SHOULD NOT be allowed to have a differently sourced model with the same name.

In other words, if its euro sourced and always called the Astra, any replacement from the Daewoo (we cant builld cars for shit) factory, should by LAW be forced to change to another name. "Boat" or "watercraft" perhaps.

This would at least stop people getting conned into thinking they are buying a well built practical euro car, when instead they are buying a 1 star safe coffin on wheels.

Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

The current Astra is produced in 3 different plants in 3 different countries, so by your reckoning the Astra's coming from those plants should all be called different things?

Get a grip.

[Red AH SRI T]

It's a bit like bornwild said - it'll be like a 3 series BMW, the Golf or the Focus being European designed and engineered, but built offshore in a factory with lower overheads and labour costs.

But also think platform sharing: the next gen Astra and the forthcoming Cruze/Lacetti will share substantial technologies and probably many hardpoints. One will be a less expensive version of the other, with different sheetmetal and specs. VAG does it with Golf/A3/Octavia/Cordoba variants, marketed under different brands and built in different factories.

GM will use the new platform (Epsilon or Gamma??) under the Cruze/Lacetti/Viva with additional engineering for the Opel/Vauxhall and Saab versions. Holden will get the two versions of the platform - one budget (Viva) and one premium (Astra), most likely from the same factory in Bupyeong. GM NA will sell the Cruze (Chevy, budget) and the Astra (Saturn, premium).

The North American market avoids customer confusion as GM sells a range of distinct brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn and their associated values) whereas GM in Australia has just Holden to distribute its mass-market product. Niche product for GM is distributed here via Saab, Hummer and (soon) Cadillac brands.

The new platform product - whether it be the budget or premium product - will be far more market competitive than both Viva and Astra are now. Both will feature a full complement of safety gear (5 star ANCAP for both), up-to-date engine technologies and 6-speed man/auto transmissions.

To be dismissive of these products because of the factory in which they will be built is premature and short sighted. The componentry and build quality (anyone with an Opel, Peugeot, Citroen product or a late 90's Merc will know European quality is patchy) are the wild cards - not the engineering. Yes, this is the yardstick by which many will judge, but there will be huge improvement in these areas as well.

The Europhiles amongst us may have to consider the Saab 9-1 for a future GM small car or change brands altogether. In Australia we will just have to accept that the source of new, small and compact GM cars will be from South Korea. We also have to accept that the products from this area of the world will in fact be world class in their engineering, safety and engine technology.

+1
Well said!

Except the new platform is Delta. Epsilon is Vectra & Saab 9-5. Gamma is Corsa.

[glider]

Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

The current Astra is produced in 3 different plants in 3 different countries, so by your reckoning the Astra's coming from those plants should all be called different things?

Get a grip.

they're all the same model however.

you can't say moving from the corsa to the kalos did not deceive anyone...

[Red AH SRI T]

they're all the same model however.

you can't say moving from the corsa to the kalos did not deceive anyone...

Yes, but thats not what will be happening with the new Astra.

The new Astra will be built in both Europe and Korea and we will get ones from Korea.

Totally different situation to the Barina to Kalos situation

[MatsHolden]

you can't say moving from the corsa to the kalos did not deceive anyone...

It didn't really decieve anyone technically. I know what you're getting at BUT, the majority of people who buy the barina (the target market) wouldn't have a clue that the XC Barina was a European sourced vehicle. Equally when the next Barina came out, they had no idea it was a Korean sourced vehicle. Only people like us, enthusiasts realise.

But yeah back onto the main topic, people are getting too excited about the mention of Daewoo... essentially all that is occuring is Opel is utilising the new GMDAT facilities to build the Astra.

[entice]

hope the korean built ones will be same or better spec than the euro ones.
Sad thing is teh focus, South Africa build (ones we get) are definitely of a poorer quality than the euro built ones... This I know from persnal experience, and also relayed by a FoMoCo employee who has one here, and had one in teh UK. Trim materials and plastics/cards are very, very different, as are subtle little electric features, down to the door locking/deadlocking mechanisms.. all in teh name of cost cutting.

Being built in SK wont stop me buying the astra.. I agree, it's the engineering behind it that makes the greatest impact

[glider]

yeah now that I've been made aware that its still opel engineered... I'll consider it

[bornwild]

+1
Well said!

Except the new platform is Delta. Epsilon is Vectra & Saab 9-5. Gamma is Corsa.

+1

Plus, the new Astra looks ridiculously good.

[aussie_in_london]

[QUOTE=MatsHolden;340905]It's designed and engineered by OPEL. QUOTE]

actually its designed and engineered by GM Europe, Opel is just a badge fitted for its intended countries. Over here Opel, Vauxhall & SAAB are all under the one name GM Europe incl manufacturing plant, design centre and also customer services and head offices, even down to the production factory workers all now wear the GM Europe branding on their coveralls.

Pain in the butt when you ring customer services about your Vxl and your speaking to someone in Sweden lol

[MatsHolden]

[quote=MatsHolden;340905]It's designed and engineered by OPEL. QUOTE]

actually its designed and engineered by GM Europe, Opel is just a badge fitted for its intended countries. Over here Opel, Vauxhall & SAAB are all under the one name GM Europe incl manufacturing plant, design centre and also customer services and head offices, even down to the production factory workers all now wear the GM Europe branding on their coveralls.

Pain in the butt when you ring customer services about your Vxl and your speaking to someone in Sweden lol

Yep and Opel are the core component of GM Europe.

[bornwild]

Yep and Opel are the core component of GM Europe.

Exactly right...if Opel wants to change a part, they'll change it, no matter what. If vauxhall or holden want it changed, they have to consult Opel.

[aussie_in_london]

maybe a little incy bit right but not quite:)

Opel are only a sales division as is Vauxhall.
All engineering is now General Motors Europe, so anyone can request a change. The added complication is the right hand drive issue which does make life harder in changing or updating parts.

But hey what would i know, i only live over here, wouldnt know anyone who is in the know ;) but you guys back home seem to know it all and have the contacts in Europe lol

[poita]

But hey what would i know, i only live over here, wouldnt know anyone who is in the know but you goes back home seem to know it all and have the contacts in Europe lol

love your work

[cyclonic]

From what I understand, the Astra replacement won't be Opel engineered or designed. It won't look anything like the current Astra, nor have any connection to it, except for the platform and possibly engines.

It'll be Daewoo/Chevrolet/Holden engineered and designed and will come off the same platform as the new Chevrolet Cobalt replacement, known as the Chevrolet Cruze.

Interior: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/02/spy-shots-chevy-cruze-shows-off-its-interior/

Exterior: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=130017

[entice]

"apparently" we get our new astra in 2009. which is way before the 2011 Chevy.

[cyclonic]

"apparently" we get our new astra in 2009. which is way before the 2011 Chevy.

Don't be misled by the model year quoted. In the US, most model year cars are given a year designation a year later than when they're released. The Pontiac G8 GXP for instance, is noted as a 2009 car, when it'll have a stateside release later this year. The regular G8 was marked as a 2008 car, even though it debuted late last year in the US (2007).

Edmunds and other media outlets have given the car a 2011 year which means it'll be a 2010 release date. However, from doing the looking around on various GM forums, the Chevy will have a stateside release of late next year, meaning it'll be a 2010 model year car. Chevrolet Europe gets the car first as it'll be the Daewoo sourced version that we'll also get.

Though, I am a bit confused as to why Holden hasn't looked at sourcing the Astra from GM South Africa's Port Elizabeth facility where they are also made.... but i'm not here to get into arguments, i'm just passing on what i've readh, heard, etc. Don't go shooting the messenger entice!

[rjastra]

LOL... i still remember these same discussions when Holden moved away from the Suzuki based Barina to the crap Opel derived one. The bitching about the poor build quality, poor performance and dodgey A/C were endless :)

Time for people to be good consumers and buy the most appropriate/best product at the time rather than wait (and bitch about) for a particular manufacturer to bring out that magical product.

If you don't like the product that Holden sells then go buy something else. It's very easy and you wont even remember you owned an Astra/barina (insert any other mass produced small hatchback here) blah blah after a couple of years. They are all just cars :)

[Huhness]

MY ASTRA CAN DO A 1/4 MILE IN UNDER 20SECONDS! :eek: LETS SEE DAEWOO DO THAT! :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

[SSS_Hoon]

MY ASTRA CAN DO A 1/4 MILE IN UNDER 20SECONDS! :eek: LETS SEE DAEWOO DO THAT! :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

not too sure that is something to brag about though is it?


SSS_Hoon

[Red AH SRI T]

From what I understand, the Astra replacement won't be Opel engineered or designed. It won't look anything like the current Astra, nor have any connection to it, except for the platform and possibly engines.

It'll be Daewoo/Chevrolet/Holden engineered and designed and will come off the same platform as the new Chevrolet Cobalt replacement, known as the Chevrolet Cruze.

Interior: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/02/spy-shots-chevy-cruze-shows-off-its-interior/

Exterior: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=130017


you're misinformed.

The Chevrolet Cruze will become the new Viva. It shares its platform with the new Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra. The Holden versions of the Astra are reported to be built in South Korea.

This is a GM platform and the Opel version will probably use more expensive/upmarket materials than the GMDAT/Chev version.

Yes, they share the same platform, no, they are not the same car.

[cyclonic]

you're misinformed.

The Chevrolet Cruze will become the new Viva. It shares its platform with the new Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra. The Holden versions of the Astra are reported to be built in South Korea.

This is a GM platform and the Opel version will probably use more expensive/upmarket materials than the GMDAT/Chev version.

Yes, they share the same platform, no, they are not the same car.

Seeing that you come from a much more credible position than me, I won't argue the point. :)

[cyclonic]

LOL... i still remember these same discussions when Holden moved away from the Suzuki based Barina to the crap Opel derived one. The bitching about the poor build quality, poor performance and dodgey A/C were endless :)

Time for people to be good consumers and buy the most appropriate/best product at the time rather than wait (and bitch about) for a particular manufacturer to bring out that magical product.

If you don't like the product that Holden sells then go buy something else. It's very easy and you wont even remember you owned an Astra/barina (insert any other mass produced small hatchback here) blah blah after a couple of years. They are all just cars :)

Hear, hear! Thats why my next car will probably be a Mazda 2 Genki or a Honda Jazz VTi-R.

[bornwild]

Mazda2 is a car that could have been sooooo good. I was disappointed when I sat in one....very poor quality materials and very poor quality interior design, same as the new Mazda6....a lot of cost-cutting.

I'd rather buy a Jazz VTi-R. :)

[Red AH SRI T]

I agree with the Mazda 2 comments, the interior is such a let down. A friend went to trade his old Daihatsu Charade on one and didn't because of the interior. Such a let down.

[ASTRAY]

From what I understand, the Astra replacement won't be Opel engineered or designed. It won't look anything like the current Astra, nor have any connection to it, except for the platform and possibly engines.

It'll be Daewoo/Chevrolet/Holden engineered and designed and will come off the same platform as the new Chevrolet Cobalt replacement, known as the Chevrolet Cruze.

Interior: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/02/spy-shots-chevy-cruze-shows-off-its-interior/

Exterior: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=130017

interior looks opel ish, exterior looks daewoo barina sedan ish.
though the headlights look commodore ish

i dont mind the interior, to me it looks better placed than the ah interior.
just my opinion. :)

[USC]

Mazda2 is a car that could have been sooooo good. I was disappointed when I sat in one....very poor quality materials and very poor quality interior design, same as the new Mazda6....a lot of cost-cutting.

I'd rather buy a Jazz VTi-R. :)


fk man..stop talking rubbish....Honda jazz and civic interior looks like sheiiit...all come from beautiful thailand.

Im sick of all those people whinging about quality of interior..i have not seen any peeling or scratching or discolouration etc happening to interior of mazda 2, 3 and 6. They might not feel heavy but they arent that poorly made. the interior of my ah sri-t looked way worst with all that crappy silver plastic everywhere.

Mazda is still 100% made in japan and i would chose that anyday.

not saying mazda is the best but its not as poor as u r saying.

have u seen the interior of nissans/mitsubishis/toyotas...they all dont look any better than the mazda. Honda jazz and civic = thai shit...


READ:
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=56780&s_rid=theage:ClassiePuff

Quote from Honda Jazz review:

"As always, the Honda's cabin controls impress with their clear layout, simple functionality and modern look. The plastic on the dashboard and door panels, however, looks a bit cheap; Honda has put a fabric insert on the top edge of all four doors so you don't get sore elbows."

[bornwild]

At least they put a fabric insert....Mazda left that as plastic!! :)

Nah Mazda has done a lot of cost-cutting with the new models....a lot. And don't talk about the Civic...that's a great quality car. Especially interior finish :).

[USC]

At least they put a fabric insert....Mazda left that as plastic!! :)

Nah Mazda has done a lot of cost-cutting with the new models....a lot. And don't talk about the Civic...that's a great quality car. Especially interior finish :).

:clap: *GOOD ON YOU MATE*:clap:

[USC]

At least they put a fabric insert....Mazda left that as plastic!! :)



same as your astra.

All car companies do cost cutting somehow....