Insignia set for Oz.....

[Oz]

That's right, according to this weeks email issue of GoAuto News (pdf file) from www.goauto.com.au the brand new Opel/Vaux Insignia is set to go on sale in Australia alongside the Epica.

In a move to mirror the success Honda has had with the Accord & Accord Euro, Holden has finally seen the light & apparently decided the Insignia will take on the more prestige end of the medium car market whilst the Crapic..... I mean Epica will play in the cheaper end of the market.

As I said the file is email delivered from GoAuto & is nearly 3mb's in size. I am sure as is normal practice this good news will show up on the goauto.com.au website within a few days.

If you guys want me to attach the PDF file here to this thread, I will.....Let me know ;)

[Oz]

Instead of attaching the over 2mb sized file on here I will attach the link to the document. The article on the Insignia coming to Australia is on pg 14 of 20.

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/mellorweb.nsf/weben/GoAuto%20e-News

Just click on the 'Get e-news now' icon on the right of the page.

[bornwild]

Don't think this is a good move for GM Holden...The Insignia actually looks bloody good and might sell(if they bring the goodies with it too, i.e. optional sat-nav, parking sensors, optional AWD, good diesel engines etc.), forcing them to rethink their Commonwhore

[Oz]

The Insignia actually looks bloody good and might sell (if they bring the goodies with it too, i.e. optional sat-nav, parking sensors, optional AWD, good diesel engines etc.), forcing them to rethink their Commonwhore

We can only hope this is the case :)

[JR]

i'm very much interested in the insignia when its released - a worthwhile (i hope) upgrade from my astra.

[entice]

Commodore is still a larger and RWD unit, built for masses and at a cheaper price. I saw an SSv sportswagon in the flesh today, and in black. I'm now to be asking on pricing.... Insignia not in a wagon yet.. so... Sportswagon still looks good. I think there will always be a market for a big aussie family car...

[USC]

that good news but I wont buy anything from Holden Stealers anymore..their service/expertise/knowledge sucks.

[Vectracious]

Hmmm - 35-50K for the Insignia they are projecting.

I know this may get people angry, but I reckon I'd go a Passat over the Insignia....

*hides*

[OPC]

I know this may get people angry, but I reckon I'd go a Passat over the Insignia....

*hides*


do you want tabouli and homus with that...

[Vectracious]

do you want tabouli and homus with that...

Are there a lot of them in Punchbowl and Lakemba?

[OPC]

Are there a lot of them in Punchbowl and Lakemba?


not sure, i dont have a passport for those areas or a towel or bullet proof vest or skyline or a beard or adidas pants or nikes or gold chains or an AK-47

[Vectracious]

not sure, i dont have a passport for those areas or a towel or bullet proof vest or skyline or a beard or adidas pants or nikes or gold chains or an AK-47

ROFLMAO

But I'd still got a Passat over an Insignia - or by that time - a used E90 3 series.

[OPC]

ROFLMAO

But I'd still got a Passat over an Insignia - or by that time - a used E90 3 series.

honestly, i dont see what everyone else sees in the Insignia

it looks shite, even worse than the new Corsa... and that's saying something

[rjastra]

As mazda has found out with the 6... the mid sized car market has once again gone flat.

$35k+ is far too exxy for a car that will probably come with a 2L engine.

[dieselhead]

We all know 88% of Falcons and Commodores are bought by fleet mobs, companies, government... As fuel price goes up, some of them will look at smaller cars, say Mondeos and Insignias, or even smaller ones like Astras. This process already started guys. Falcodores are not vehicles for the masses, they are simply heavy pieces of crap if you ask me ;) Sure, the price per kg is very competitive, but is that the point when you buy a car?! The yobbos will have to buy smaller second hand cars when these mastodons are gone. Sorry, the masses.
Big cars are in a lot of trouble in the land of the free. They were never relevant in Europe and don't see them picking up too much in China and India. Do you really think they will survive here down under as we know them today? In my, view Holden is preparing for giving up the Commodores by testing the market with Epica and soon Insignia. I'm pretty sure they won't be happy to see a lot of corporations buying Mazdas and Hondas...

[poita]

Depends on what price is, features we get. Interior layout and quality.
Would consider trading the mazda in for one

[Shaun]

We all know 88% of Falcons and Commodores are bought by fleet mobs, companies, government... As fuel price goes up, some of them will look at smaller cars, say Mondeos and Insignias, or even smaller ones like Astras. This process already started guys. Falcodores are not vehicles for the masses, they are simply heavy pieces of crap if you ask me ;) Sure, the price per kg is very competitive, but is that the point when you buy a car?! The yobbos will have to buy smaller second hand cars when these mastodons are gone. Sorry, the masses.
Big cars are in a lot of trouble in the land of the free. They were never relevant in Europe and don't see them picking up too much in China and India. Do you really think they will survive here down under as we know them today? In my, view Holden is preparing for giving up the Commodores by testing the market with Epica and soon Insignia. I'm pretty sure they won't be happy to see a lot of corporations buying Mazdas and Hondas...


If there has been such a down turn in numbers for the large car how come HSV had record sales last year and are on target for the same this year. Holden exports are up in 2008. The large car will always hold a place in the market. Someone will always want / need a large car .

Holden didnt make a Billion dollar investment on the VE to just " give up " as you put it.

The main reason the Insignia would be coming to Australia (which Holden Has not released a media statement about at this point) would be to do with the Qauilty of the Midsized Opel product has impoved compared to the Vectra. the car has alot more style and looks more like a $35l-$50k car this time.

Also Holden are offering choice with a safe bet that if one or the other dosent work the can change there plans . I think it makes sense to keep the Epica like they have done with the Astra and Viva.

Now when people go to the dealership they can walk in look at the Insigna but if the budget dont extend that fair the dealerships can say " we also have this alternate" which represents value for money.

[rjastra]

Why would companies move their company car drivers from a Commodore into a 35K+ Insignia? The reason they purchase Commodores/Falcons is the huge discount they get... something that stuffs up the resale value for private buyres later on.

They are much more likely to really bite the bullet and put their drivers into Corollas, Astra, or dare i say it, Epicas! Shove them all into turbo diesel Epicas at $28K a pop (less with fleet discount). Hmmm.. makes the 88Kw auto CDTI Astra look a tad expensive.

A friend has an Acclaim as a company car. The next change they are offering the mid range mazda 6 or base spec accord euro or Liberty. Both are now 10% cheaper than the projected Insignia price range.

[Vectra V6]

Clarkson stated in a recent top gear episode that the addition of the insignia makes the vauxhall range flawless in terms of design.

[dieselhead]

Ok, let's have a poll somewhere on the following subject: do you know someone who bought privately a brand new Falcon or Commodore in the last 5 years? You don't? Ok then... How many private buyers of new Corollas do you know?

Shaun, Holden made the decision to spend a billion on the VE 7 years ago, when petrol was still 70c/litre. Have you seen what kind of declarations the GM bosses are making lately? Surely, no good news for Adelaide there... Also, I can't see how HSVs export increase is relevant in this context. Ferrari sells more cars than they do! :) If Holden closes shop here, HSV will be limited to importing VXR versions of the Astra, Corsa and Insignia. Maybe.

[Oz]

Here is the full flow on article (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/B10C78E8779A9FF4CA2574A6000B3C1A) on goauto.com.au.

Things are looking good for the Insignia'a arrival here fella's :)

[glider]

HSV will be limited to importing VXR versions of the Astra, Corsa and Insignia. Maybe.

Would anyone here have an issue with that? (apart from probable job losses)

[dieselhead]

I don't have any problem with that. Problem is, HSV can't survive on selling VXRs only. We all know how many Astras they're moving...
If Holden manufacturing goes down we might finally get the cars we all want to see here down under: OPELS!!!! :)

[cyclonic]

I hate to be sceptical, but i'll believe it when I see it.

[Shaun]

Ok, let's have a poll somewhere on the following subject: do you know someone who bought privately a brand new Falcon or Commodore in the last 5 years? You don't? Ok then... How many private buyers of new Corollas do you know?

Shaun, Holden made the decision to spend a billion on the VE 7 years ago, when petrol was still 70c/litre. Have you seen what kind of declarations the GM bosses are making lately? Surely, no good news for Adelaide there... Also, I can't see how HSVs export increase is relevant in this context. Ferrari sells more cars than they do! :) If Holden closes shop here, HSV will be limited to importing VXR versions of the Astra, Corsa and Insignia. Maybe.

Because Both HSV and Holden work on a total business aspect. Not because there have been a down turn in recent times of the commodore based products.

Believe it or not export is keeping Holden afloat. They made have had a loss for the last financal year but the loss was at its lowest for a long time That tells me a couple of things. 1 They are starting to recover there development cost of the VE. (Even if its only a small amout) 2 the products are becoming stronger in terms on build qaulity as warranty cost could possibly be down in a result would lower the loss. Export program is building in strenght (which is a well known fact they are exporting almost as many units overseas as they are selling here). There are not many Manafacturers who make money in the Passanger vehicle market. how ever if they have a hand in the Heavy Vehicle Market (Trucks Buses and Coaches) the tend to post stronger results.


Holden and HSV are not going to pull out of Australia . GM have a new model for production. And Australia is one of the key places production will happen.

Australia will be used for all Large sedan / wagon products. Zeta platform is Australias to look after world wide.

Korea is now the production centre for all Small -Med Passanger cars for most of the world.

Europe will handle all Med sized cars Such as the Astra Insignia Alfa Saab etc.

in the end there will be 3 platforms used by GM and they will be developed in each of those places. Each brand will use the platform suitable for there product. Ford have done the same thing with the C3 Platform which the Mazda 3 Ford Focus Volvo S40/V50/C30 all sit on

[entice]

my understnding was that the majority of the losses for GM, and for FoMoCo (9 billion) was from finance arms of those companies.

[dieselhead]

That's correct entice, but the downturn in those stupidly big trucks didn't help, either. That hit Ford very hard, too. hopefully the yanks will wake up and start manufacturing proper cars. However, don't hold your breath...

Honestly now, if you are tho chose between a Commodore V6 and an Insignia with some fancy turbo petrol/diesel engine, price being equal, what would you do? How much smaller the Insignia you reckon? One more thing, how come Vectra and Astra are proper rep mobiles in Europe but we need Commodores here in Oz? Is it our arse that much wider you reckon? :)

[Shaun]

I don't have any problem with that. Problem is, HSV can't survive on selling VXRs only. We all know how many Astras they're moving...
If Holden manufacturing goes down we might finally get the cars we all want to see here down under: OPELS!!!! :)



HSV released a press statement about the VXR. they have sold 20% more then projected target from when the VXR program was started. 81% of VXR buyers are new to the brand. 40% of them were female.
In terms of adding a new product to there brand that has a large V8 following from there customers HSV have had a great sucess with the VXR in there range. HSV never set out to sell large volume like VW have done with the GTi. They do that with the Clubsport R8.

What you all seem to forget the VXR was never intended to be a High volume model. HSV are allicated somewhere between 50-100 units per year. Not a lot of units when you consider ford is allicated 50-100 XR5 a month.

[Shaun]

That's correct entice, but the downturn in those stupidly big trucks didn't help, either. That hit Ford very hard, too. hopefully the yanks will wake up and start manufacturing proper cars. However, don't hold your breath...

Honestly now, if you are tho chose between a Commodore V6 and an Insignia with some fancy turbo petrol/diesel engine, price being equal, what would you do? How much smaller the Insignia you reckon? One more thing, how come Vectra and Astra are proper rep mobiles in Europe but we need Commodores here in Oz? Is it our arse that much wider you reckon? :)

Its a totally different market in Europe and Australia. You dont see road trains or B-doubles on trucks over there. Again its totally different. You cant compare them. Europe has always been a place for small cars. With good reason when you see some of the placed you see people drive cars through or park them.

[dieselhead]

I'd love an Insignia VXR, the only problem is it wouldn't be too practical for me. I spend 90% of the time alone in the car, commuting or driving through the hills for fun. In fact, I do that every day on my way to the office :) What I want is a small, stupidly fast car. A Corsa VXR with a nasty remap would fit the bill just nicely, but we all know it won't come over...

The point I was trying to make above, with GM selling Opel here, was about what would happen if manufacturing ceases here. Do you really think Holden could get away selling Daewoos only? Wouldn't make sense to start repositioning on the market with high quality, European cars made by Opel? Think about it. Car manufacturing down under is doomed. I hate it just as much as the next union leader, but hey, fooling ourselves won't help avoiding the inevitable...

Shaun, you don't need a big car to travel around Australia. 18 months ago I drove from Adelaide to Brisbane, 4 in the car with luggage for 10 days, in a Astra Wagon. Perfectly safe and comfortable. I can't see how things could have been any better in a Commodore. Now, the Insignia is hardly a small car, it must have damping that's light years ahead of a VE and is more economical. I fail to understand why would you be safer in a Commodore than in an Insignia when a B_Double runs over you :D

The one and only reason why cars are larger in Australia than Europe is fuel price. Every other reason, such as the size of the country and trucks and kangaroos is, frankly, bs.

[entice]

I've done those long trips in an astra, in a commodore (Calais V), and in an Sti.

I can tell you I was most relaxed stepping out of the Calais. The astra wagons are good (I have owned 2), but arent as comfortable to drive as teh hatches, which dont come close to comfort for long drives as the commo/calais does. The Sti was the most horrid of all, unless you were driving it the way it was intended to be.

Now, back to sportswagon VS Insignia.

Prices being the same, sure, I'd take the insignia, but realistically, the insgnia will come in far more exxy than an SV6. The Diesel astra hatch is pretty much teh same cost as an omega....

[rjastra]

By the time the Insignia lops here the Commodore will havea direct injected version of the 3.6L V6 (220kw) and most likely a 6 speed auto.

[dieselhead]

Yeah, all of those along with another 100kg. Nah, make that 120kg, but who cares since the new gearbox is that good? :)

[Shaun]

I'd love an Insignia VXR, the only problem is it wouldn't be too practical for me. I spend 90% of the time alone in the car, commuting or driving through the hills for fun. In fact, I do that every day on my way to the office :) What I want is a small, stupidly fast car. A Corsa VXR with a nasty remap would fit the bill just nicely, but we all know it won't come over...

The point I was trying to make above, with GM selling Opel here, was about what would happen if manufacturing ceases here. Do you really think Holden could get away selling Daewoos only? Wouldn't make sense to start repositioning on the market with high quality, European cars made by Opel? Think about it. Car manufacturing down under is doomed. I hate it just as much as the next union leader, but hey, fooling ourselves won't help avoiding the inevitable...

Shaun, you don't need a big car to travel around Australia. 18 months ago I drove from Adelaide to Brisbane, 4 in the car with luggage for 10 days, in a Astra Wagon. Perfectly safe and comfortable. I can't see how things could have been any better in a Commodore. Now, the Insignia is hardly a small car, it must have damping that's light years ahead of a VE and is more economical. I fail to understand why would you be safer in a Commodore than in an Insignia when a B_Double runs over you :D

The one and only reason why cars are larger in Australia than Europe is fuel price. Every other reason, such as the size of the country and trucks and kangaroos is, frankly, bs.

If we were to go into a ressision like we did in the early 90's Holden would be in a prime postion with the Daewoo products. Think about it. If the avarage famly with the SS Commodore the $500,000 morgage over there head were to struggle Holden have products that are value for money. (Albeit they are cheap products against other products). Look at it this way. $13,990 for a Barina. 3 Years warranty. Fixed price servicing. Thats not bad going really .

Look at the Hyundai Excel in late 90's. Cheap but represented Value for money and put a lot of people (including my self) into a brand new car that was affordable. The 5 year Warranty on the Excel sold the car to me. Cheapest new car i have owned and it was the one thats given me the least amount of trouble. Never heard of a Water pump failing on a Excel @30,000km. My old SRi T had to have a water pump replaced at 30,000km. Wheres the so called " European Quality " in that. LCD screen in my TS SRi T failed twice.
Yes i do like the Opel / Vauxhall Products. I have for many years. They have the problems. Yes in the later ones alot of them have been worked on. But at they end of the day they are a far cry from the Likes of Volvo.( Who btw has the number one spot with CSI (Customer satsifaction index))


The Epica diesel is an option for the young family who is struggling to make ends meet with the SS Commodore and $500,000 morgage repayments . The Astra Diesel is alittle too Small. Dont get me wrong great car but its not something you could put 3 children for a trip to Brisbane from sydney and expect it to be comfy for them.


I agree though Holden should bring in the Insignia. I dont dispute that. The car would compete agains the Likes of the Mazda 6 Ford Mondeo Honda Accord and Liberty. Its got the style about it and is worthy of being sold here. How ever Holden having a hand in each corner is a benefit to them. People are not always looking for the " stylish " car. and they have the option there to sell them something thats cheap but new with 3 years warranty. Which if i was in the situation fo having a Young Family with a $500,000 morgage over my head i would purchase something from the Holden Korean Built range or something from Hyundai or Kia. Even Proton.

As ive said in the past. Not everyone is basing it on being " European Quality" Production here wont stop.

They may lay people off if things slow down too much but wont stop completely. Its not like the 380 sales. There was a romour floating round though that Holden could build a med car local. Possibly an astra like ford will do with the focus in 2011

[rjastra]

Which if i was in the situation fo having a Young Family with a $500,000 morgage over my head i would purchase something from the Holden Korean Built range or something from Hyundai or Kia. Even Proton.


Ummm, they don't buy new cars if they are hocked that much in debt.

[Shaun]

Ummm, they don't buy new cars if they are hocked that much in debt.

Most that i know are driving round in cheap affordable new cars.

[bornwild]

Most that i know are driving round in cheap affordable new cars.

Whoever has a family would have to be looking at a much safer car than the Barina.......even a 2nd hand Corsa is a much safer option.

[bornwild]

Also, the Insignia is not a Mondeo/Mazda6 competitor...it's a more upmarket car, aiming at the Passat mostly

[poita]

but if its in the 30-40k bracket then its defin a competitor to the mazda 6
no doubt it would be a one horse race if that was the case, but still a competitor none the less

[bornwild]

Well, I was speaking in spiritual terms more than the monetary position of the Insignia :)

Many people also don't understand that the current AH Astra is a Golf competitor, not a Focus/Mazda3 competitor.

Opel has been breaking into the 'upmarket' segment with the AH; it's current and future plans are upmarket. Hence the price rise in the next gen Astra and Vectra(Insignia).

[dieselhead]

How would you like an Insignia Sports Tourer (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6756/vauxhall-reveals-insignia-sports-tourer/) with this engine? :) They will get it in Europe fairly soon now...

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/03/x09pt_6c001_450.jpg
2.9 V6 185kW/550 Nm CDTi

Imagine owning one of these beauties in the Sports Tourer that is simply amazingly handsome, with AWD, too!

[bornwild]

That seems like a nice nice engine hmmmm :D

[rjastra]

Many people also don't understand that the current AH Astra is a Golf competitor, not a Focus/Mazda3 competitor.



I sometimes wonder what planet you are on :)

The Astra is considered a Focus/Mazda3/Golf competitor in EUROPE so why not here?

[Vectracious]

LOL - this has just got confusing.

I guess the perception in Australia is that the Golf is a premium hatchback as it is European and a VW - the Astra and Focus aren't because they are GM/Ford Products (even though they are European) - even through really all 3 are in a similar price range.

[Red AH SRI T]

How would you like an Insignia Sports Tourer (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6756/vauxhall-reveals-insignia-sports-tourer/) with this engine? :) They will get it in Europe fairly soon now...

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/03/x09pt_6c001_450.jpg
2.9 V6 185kW/550 Nm CDTi

Imagine owning one of these beauties in the Sports Tourer that is simply amazingly handsome, with AWD, too!

The same engine is being tested in Commodores and i believe is the engine that Hummer will use as well

[dieselhead]

...difference being that Insignia is classier and 300kg lighter than a Commodore Sportswagon :)

[Shaun]

Also, the Insignia is not a Mondeo/Mazda6 competitor...it's a more upmarket car, aiming at the Passat mostly

When the classes are based on price it will be against the likes of the Mondeo and Mazda 6 Honda Accord and Subaru market.


Classes are not based on " how up market " the car may be. its driven by price and size.

[Shaun]

Whoever has a family would have to be looking at a much safer car than the Barina.......even a 2nd hand Corsa is a much safer option.

Do you have a clue of what your talking about ???? The Barina has just gone though a face lift and is now fitted with Passanger side airbags. For a $13,990 car what more do you expect. Would you like CLS benz features for 14k.... if so your DREAMING.....

[Shaun]

Well, I was speaking in spiritual terms more than the monetary position of the Insignia :)

Many people also don't understand that the current AH Astra is a Golf competitor, not a Focus/Mazda3 competitor.

Opel has been breaking into the 'upmarket' segment with the AH; it's current and future plans are upmarket. Hence the price rise in the next gen Astra and Vectra(Insignia).

Ist driven by price. In the Europe yes they are in the same class. But here the Golf starts just below 30k. Where the astra starts in the early 20 mark.
It goese to stand that a car sitting in the $20k region of the market for an entry level is never going to be put up against something to the end of the high $20k mark.
Hence why the dont test an Astra against the Viva. The equpiment levels are different.

When will you people have a real understand of how it works. Heres a tip stop living in your dream world and wake up and smell the coffee.

[Vectracious]

Where's the popcorn?

*looks around for the popcorn*

EDIT: and the coffee :D

[Shaun]

Where's the popcorn?

*looks around for the popcorn*

EDIT: and the coffee :D

HAHA.... well someone had to have the balls to him the truth ........ HAHAHA

[bornwild]

I sometimes wonder what planet you are on :)

The Astra is considered a Focus/Mazda3/Golf competitor in EUROPE so why not here?

BMW 1/Audi A3 = Premium
Golf/Astra = Upmarket hatches
Focus/Mazda3 = Budget

Comprende?:)

[bornwild]

Shaun...mate.......just stop quoting me. You're a little, how should I put this...slow.

Side airbags do not make a car safe...dohhhh

[Shaun]

BMW 1/Audi A3 = Premium
Golf/Astra = Upmarket hatches
Focus/Mazda3 = Budget

Comprende?:)


Hate to burst your bubble but the Astra isnt an Upmarket hatch. It represents Budget.Granted they build a decent hatch. Like Mazda and ford . All 3 are pretty well built and have decent features for the money you pay.

But Mafacturers such as Peugeot Alfa Volvo Mercedes Benz are building the Up market Hatches.

[MatsHolden]

BMW 1/Audi A3 = Premium
Golf/Astra = Upmarket hatches
Focus/Mazda3 = Budget

Comprende?:)

I dunno mate... Astra starts from 21,990, Mazda 3 20,990 and Focus 20,490. All pretty close in price range, so in the same segment. That's not saying that the Astra isn't on par with quality with a more expensive hatch.

[Shaun]

Shaun...mate.......just stop quoting me. You're a little, how should I put this...slow.

Side airbags do not make a car safe...dohhhh

No but the improve the levels of saftey. They have done alot of other work to the Barina. Again though you know more then Holdens Engineers i guess...

[Vectracious]

Just to throw my 2c in there as well - never thought of the Astra as upmarket either TBH. Maybe Holden has tried to make it upmarket by selling it alongside the Viva, but I dunno whether Joe Public sees it as such.

[bornwild]

Hate to burst your bubble but the Astra isnt an Upmarket hatch. It represents Budget. Makes such as Peugeot Alfa Volvo Mercedes Benz are building the Up market Hatches.

In your opinion Peugeot is upmarket???? **** me...


I dunno mate... Astra starts from 21,990, Mazda 3 20,990 and Focus 20,490. All pretty close in price range, so in the same segment. That's not saying that the Astra isn't on par with quality with a more expensive hatch.

You can't really look at the pricing of a car in AUS...the prices get skewed up and down as a car gets transported from the EU...just look at the base prices of a 1-series BMW and Astra in germany, the difference is AU$4000 yet when it arrives in AU it turns out to be $16000!!!


No but the improve the levels of saftey. They have done alot of other work to the Barina. Again though you know more then Holdens Engineers i guess...

Done lot of other work? Like what? They, sure as ****, haven't done shit to the chassis and basic engineering. Perhaps you know more than Daewoo engineers?

[MatsHolden]

You can't really look at the pricing of a car in AUS...the prices get skewed up and down as a car gets transported from the EU...just look at the base prices of a 1-series BMW and Astra in germany, the difference is AU$4000 yet when it arrives in AU it turns out to be $16000!!!



?

We are in Australia... it goes by what the customer pays. What it is in Europe is completely irrelevant.

[bornwild]

Just to throw my 2c in there as well - never thought of the Astra as upmarket either TBH. Maybe Holden has tried to make it upmarket by selling it alongside the Viva, but I dunno whether Joe Public sees it as such.

Just look at the interior quality of the Astra and compare it to Mazda3/Focus etc....which one has an 'upmarket' feel? I'm not saying the Astra is the end-all be-all of hatches, I'm just saying it's a Golf competitor.....and the Golf ain't much better than the rest.

A price does not determine the class of a car.

It's a bit hard to explain it to you when you haven't lived in the EU:)

[Shaun]

We are in Australia... it goes by what the customer pays. What it is in Europe is completely irrelevant.

+1
;-)

[bornwild]

We are in Australia... it goes by what the customer pays. What it is in Europe is completely irrelevant.

What I was trying to say is, we are getting a pretty good deal on the Astra here in AUS...

[Vectracious]

Just look at the interior quality of the Astra and compare it to Mazda3/Focus etc....which one has an 'upmarket' feel? I'm not saying the Astra is the end-all be-all of hatches, I'm just saying it's a Golf competitor.....and the Golf ain't much better than the rest.

A price does not determine the class of a car.

It's a bit hard to explain it to you when you haven't lived in the EU:)

Granted - Jap car interiors are not exactly as good as their Euro counterparts - but just because one has soft feel plastics and one doesn't is enough to convince me. As for the Golf, they reckon the interior is a step down from the Mk IV.

I haven't lived in the EU but I know a lot of people that do (Greece mainly) and to them - the class of car is dependant on these
- Marque
- Price
- Engine size

Your Germans are always going to be ahead because they are german. However, the fact that my CR-V costs upwards of 40,000 Euro in Greece also makes it an upmarket car - and its a Honda!

The other thing that is important is engine size - the bigger the engine, the more tax you pay - and the more "upmarket" cars have the bigger engines - because the owners can afford the tax/rego on them.

[Shaun]

In your opinion Peugeot is upmarket???? **** me...



You can't really look at the pricing of a car in AUS...the prices get skewed up and down as a car gets transported from the EU...just look at the base prices of a 1-series BMW and Astra in germany, the difference is AU$4000 yet when it arrives in AU it turns out to be $16000!!!



Done lot of other work? Like what? They, sure as ****, haven't done shit to the chassis and basic engineering. Perhaps you know more than Daewoo engineers?

You seem to loose sight of what the Barina represents though. The car wasnt engineers to be driven arround a race track. Its a car thats purpose in life is to get someone from A to B and is cheap motoring to the end user.
The engineers have got the blend right for the money that the car retails for.
Considering the Current Barina is an Ageing platform what more do you really expect from it to be honest.

And i wouldnt say a stock CD Astra (and i say this with no disrespect to anyone with a CD Astra albeit a TS or AH) is a car that represents outstanding engineering. The Current AH is nothing more then a rehassed TS platform. Wheres the engineering feats in that really ???? Opel only improved on what they already had from the TS. If you talking about Astras that handle you need to pay for the more expensive ones of the likes of the SRi 2.2 SRi T or the VXR. Which your paying the extra for because they have had more engineering put into the cars.


What you need to stop and think is the Barina is not meant to be something thats out there to beat everything on the road. if you want that spend 40k on a Hot Hatch or WRX where you are paying for that. Its quite simple.

[poita]

Oh sweet another e-wang growing contest.
Born why is yours inverted?

[OPC]

Born why is yours inverted?

hahahaha he has an inverted one... no wonder he is always cranky

[bornwild]

Oh sweet another e-wang growing contest.
Born why is yours inverted?

hahahah ah man :D

Shaun, when I said chassis, I meant that they didn't redesign the crumple zones of the car, which is the major part in a cars engineering that makes it either good or bad in an accident :).

[Shaun]

hahahah ah man :D

Shaun, when I said chassis, I meant that they didn't redesign the crumple zones of the car, which is the major part in a cars engineering that makes it either good or bad in an accident :).


Again.... like ive said in the past. 5 years time they will improve. Mercedes Benz werent engineers back in the early days. its taken years to get to where they are today.

[rjastra]

It's very interesting reading people's views of the world.

"The Astra is a premium hatch because I own one" seems to be the latest fantasy :)

If they were considered (by the BUYING public) a premium product they would see a rise in sales like the Pug 308 and Golf have seen. Astra sales are on the decline.

The updated Barina has been modified at the front to improve on crash test results. Mind you, there is no direct correlation between NCAP etc results and real world injury statistics.

[Vectracious]

Mind you, there is no direct correlation between NCAP etc results and real world injury statistics.

Ah ok - so now it makes sense why people are criticising Ford for making "we got 5 stars ANCAP for our (FuGly) Falcon" advertising campaign.

[HappySlapper82]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Insignia