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NXA-16H
3rd July 2008, 09:58 PM
I have been doing a reasonable amount of research on potential alternatives to the Zafira which I drive nowadays, including my 2nd car - a shitbox Festiva - which was written off last weekend.

Essentially, I am looking for a European vehicle which is safe, reliable, whose parts are readily available, comfortable, and which also stands out from the crowd. An old Citroën DS is currently a serious candidate.

During my research however, I found a post discussing GM's failed strategy of trying to sell eight versions of the same car, instead of focusing on building ONE great car and producing maybe two variants at most. The post attributed the problem to one of general brand mismanagement, which included the issue of marketing and branding. The post in question was one in a series of articles on the subject, a discussion around what is arguably GM’s greatest crime of “brand murder”: the destruction of Saab.

Many years ago, there was a great Saab commercial showing a Saab owner driving at illegal speeds along twisty back roads, while a Rolls Royce owner is being driven serenely along the same roads whilst reading the paper and drinking tea. The images cut back and forth and eventually the Saab owner (stuck behind and annoyed with the slow moving Rolls Royce) passes the Rolls Royce and leaves him in the dust. The commercial ends with the tagline: “People who buy a Rolls Royce pay other people to drive for them; people who drive Saabs let no one do the driving but themselves!”

If I remember correctly (I was barely ten at the time) this commercial came out around 1985/1986, back when the Saab brand was stronger and the company was considered a producer of premium, safe, quirky and sporty cars. They were never in the same league as Mercedes or BMW, but they were still premium automobiles that were well respected and had a strong following.

Fast forward to 2008 and Saab only holds a glimmer of its former glory. You could even argue that the use of Opel platforms and the GM parts bin makes them some sort of an Opelised version of a true Saab.

Aside from the automotive-Frankenstein quasi Saabs GM is pushing on the marketplace, the real problem with Saab is that the cars simply don’t stand up to the competition. Why would you pay $36k for a Saab 9-3 when you can get a car with similar appointments and performance capabilities (if not greater) from Honda or Nissan for much less, or get higher performing, more luxurious cars from Audi, BMW or Lexus for about the same price? Unless you’re in love with Saab’s styling, the floor ignition or the nighttime driving lights, it makes little sense to choose Saab over the competition.

So what’s the solution for Saab?

Put the cars from other Luxury Sport Sedan manufacturers firmly in their sights, and actually build a car that a potential BMW, Audi or luxury Honda buyer practically has to try before making a final decision. Some potential ideas:

Actually build a bloody Saab. Stop re-badging sub-par cars from other GM divisions. I don't believe Australian car buyers want to pay $35k for a rebadged Opel/Generic GM Sedan with a few Saab touches.

If you want to be a legitimate competitor in the luxury sports sedan arena, your cars have to be either all wheel drive or rear wheel drive. Until rear wheel drive and/or all wheel drive variants of the Saab 9-3 are produced, it’s not going to be a viable competitor against the heavyweights in that market segment.

More power: Lexus and Honda were able to shake-up the Sports Sedan segment by starting a horsepower race, Saab should join the club and push the power output of the Aero version of the 9-3 to at least 300 HP. They should also create a “motorsport/tuner” version of the 9-3 (i.e. bring back the Viggen) with a power output in excess of 400 HP, as a ultra-high performance 9-3 could be a cachet model that could help breathe life back into the Saab brand. Furthermore, if a super-powered Viggen is brought back in rear wheel or all wheel drive form, it won’t have the torque steer that plagued the last version and dampened its high-performance credentials.

Can Saab be saved? I have no doubt. Audi was brought back from being nearly dead to being a viable competitor for BMW and Mercedes. With the A4 outselling the Mercedes C-Series, Saab can be revived too. However the key to reviving Saab (as it was with Audi) is a great product. A company that claims their cars are “descended from Jets” should build performance automobiles that keep that promise, as opposed to seeming more like they’re descended from re-badged pedestrian Opels.

An afterthought: How about making Saab more like Mini is to BMW? Saab should be into cool, new, emerging product categories - Green vehicles, city vehicles etc, and also emphasize Saab as a lifestyle brand with trendy stores and ownership experience.. Much like what Apple Stores offer, while leaving the rest of GM to concentrate on luxury, performance, and utility - the traditional car segments. This is actually a good time to go into this, thanks to the quickened pace of technological and lifestyle changes that give rise the new trends - internet, green credentials, globalisation, urban renewal etc etc etc.

NXK-43Y

OPC
3rd July 2008, 10:02 PM
did you copy and paste that from somewhere else and put your own name to it ?

NXA-16H
3rd July 2008, 10:06 PM
did you copy and paste that from somewhere else and put your own name to it ?

Nice suggestion, but no. If you read it, You'll notice that it has been contextualised to the AUSTRALIAN market. No plagiarism here.

NXK-43Y

OPC
3rd July 2008, 10:07 PM
Nice suggestion, but no. If you read it, You'll notice that it has been contextualised to the AUSTRALIAN market. No plagiarism here.

NXK-43Y

nah too much hassle

GO THE AV's

unknownspeedster
3rd July 2008, 10:32 PM
the thing is Saab's where a terrible product in there "hay day" plus u cant turn Saab into what BMW has done with mini since Saab are cars that owners had a bit of the Volvo syndrome and thus the brand has a stigma about it, the reason for why BMW succeed with the mini was because the mini was cool in it "hay day" and BMW built on that keeping that essences of cool and uniqueness associated with the brand and you got to also remember that if Saab where so good in the old days why did they need to be economically brought my GM to prevent them from becoming like MG

95' GSI
3rd July 2008, 10:50 PM
My neighbour has saabs, always go home on the back of a truck :D says something

USC
4th July 2008, 12:00 AM
Why would you want a Saab? There are so many better european cars out there...Alfa Romeo??

Apex
4th July 2008, 07:48 AM
My mate has a Saab and its fricken cool! Recently posted some impressive figures at a dyno day.

2003 Hirsch 9-5 Sportcombi
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/rolly850R/Frnt3gtr.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/rolly850R/Rear3qtr.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/rolly850R/wheel.jpg

Was actually constructed in Australia and imported to New Zealand.

Calibrated
4th July 2008, 08:28 AM
Saab has to have the most boring dashboards ever. more boring than toyota...

that said, i love the new 9-5

Red AH SRI T
4th July 2008, 09:17 AM
I think you should take a closer look at a new 93.
I sell them so i'm more than happy to show you over one.

And your a bit off in your starting price.
A new 93 starts at $43400.
A new Audi A4 starts at $50990
A Base BMW 3 Series starts at $51000
A Base MB C Class starts at $57090

If you were to get into a 93 for a similar price to above mentioned cars you would be looking at almost top of the range (you'd get into a Vector Luxury for less than the MB). And it would have more features than the MB or BMW cause to get anything in those vehicles you have to opt them up. Everything is standard in the Saab.


I believe the real problem with Saab is that most ppl don't know a lot about them, and so aren't willing to take a look. A lack of advertising dollars doesn't help either. They aren't always a brand at the forefront of ppl's minds.

Anyway, I invite you to come into my showroom and I'll be more than happy to show you over the Saab range and show you what good value for money they are.


Oh and as for the high performance thing:

You've obviously never heard of the new Saab 93 Turbo X with Saab's new XWD (Cross Wheel Drive).
http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/turbox_test_drives.jpg

2.8V6 Turbo, 206kW, 400Nm, 0-100 in 5.7 Seconds

The Turbo X is a special edition to introduce XWD, only 2000 world wide (30 in Oz), and then XWD will start filtering down through the range.

GreyRex
4th July 2008, 09:36 AM
Yeah i've got to say, i'd actually look twice at that one

Been getting favourable reviews...

For me it's starting to look ok.

I love those 19's (i think thats what they are)

I don't know if it would be my car of choice if I was in the market (i feel i'd need to be a doctor/dentist to fit the demographic... hehe kidding), but it's looking good

USC
4th July 2008, 10:43 AM
Saab has to have the most boring dashboards ever. more boring than toyota...

that said, i love the new 9-5

+1

Old Saabs (in the 90`s) were terrible in terms of reliability. When I was in the UK for studies, my mate`s saab turbo would break down at least once every 2 weeks.

Tfer
4th July 2008, 10:58 AM
I think you should take a closer look at a new 93.
I sell them so i'm more than happy to show you over one.

And your a bit off in your starting price.
A new 93 starts at $43400.
A new Audi A4 starts at $50990
A Base BMW 3 Series starts at $51000
A Base MB C Class starts at $57090

If you were to get into a 93 for a similar price to above mentioned cars you would be looking at almost top of the range (you'd get into a Vector Luxury for less than the MB). And it would have more features than the MB or BMW cause to get anything in those vehicles you have to opt them up. Everything is standard in the Saab.


I believe the real problem with Saab is that most ppl don't know a lot about them, and so aren't willing to take a look. A lack of advertising dollars doesn't help either. They aren't always a brand at the forefront of ppl's minds.

Anyway, I invite you to come into my showroom and I'll be more than happy to show you over the Saab range and show you what good value for money they are.


Oh and as for the high performance thing:

You've obviously never heard of the new Saab 93 Turbo X with Saab's new XWD (Cross Wheel Drive).
http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/turbox_test_drives.jpg

2.8V6 Turbo, 206kW, 400Nm, 0-100 in 5.7 Seconds

The Turbo X is a special edition to introduce XWD, only 2000 world wide (30 in Oz), and then XWD will start filtering down through the range.

Thanks for the information here.... as discussed with another Opelaus member, my Commercial HP is up mid next year and the Veccy most probably will go.... its good to keep an open mind :)

Question for you Kurt.... is this the same 2.8V6 Turbo that was in the last of the Veccy D OPC's? :confused:


Yeah i've got to say, i'd actually look twice at that one

Been getting favourable reviews...

For me it's starting to look ok.

I love those 19's (i think thats what they are)



+ 2 :)


+1

Old Saabs (in the 90`s) were terrible in terms of reliability. When I was in the UK for studies, my mate`s saab turbo would break down at least once every 2 weeks.

A friend of a mates had a late 80's model and that thing used to hammer.... the thing which sold me on Saab's was when we went thundering down a typical Qld secondary road (yep, narrow, bumpy and basically in crap condition).... he took his hands off the wheel, and jumped on the brakes..... pulled up straight and very quickly..... still remember it as if it was yesterday :eek:

Red AH SRI T
4th July 2008, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the information here.... as discussed with another Opelaus member, my Commercial HP is up mid next year and the Veccy most probably will go.... its good to keep an open mind :)

Question for you Kurt.... is this the same 2.8V6 Turbo that was in the last of the Veccy D OPC's? :confused:




No. The 2.8 in the Saab is a relation to the Alloytec in the VE Commodore. Its constructed here in Australia. However it sounds nothing like the wheezing vacuum cleaner that does service in the commodore.

I recently had a customer trade in his Vectra C CDXi for a 93 Vector SportCombi with the 2.0 HOT (high output turbo). He loves it.

Tfer
4th July 2008, 12:33 PM
No. The 2.8 in the Saab is a relation to the Alloytec in the VE Commodore. Its constructed here in Australia. However it sounds nothing like the wheezing vacuum cleaner that does service in the commodore.

I recently had a customer trade in his Vectra C CDXi for a 93 Vector SportCombi with the 2.0 HOT (high output turbo). He loves it.

Thanks for the clarification Kurt.... BTW what is the kw and nm for the 2.0 HOT?

Red AH SRI T
4th July 2008, 12:33 PM
154kW and 300Nm

The guy who traded the CDXi said he couldn't believe how similar the power was, if not better, than his Vectra.

Tfer
4th July 2008, 12:40 PM
154kW and 300Nm

The guy who traded the CDXi said he couldn't believe how similar the power was, if not better, than his Vectra.

I would have to agree with that, considering a Veccy C has very similar figures (the 3.2l one), and depending on weight, could very well tip the scales in favour of the Saab.

Thanks! :)

USC
4th July 2008, 01:51 PM
how about build quality? is it better than opel?

Red AH SRI T
4th July 2008, 02:02 PM
how about build quality? is it better than opel?

The Current 93 is a very well put together vehicle. Main problem ppl usually have is they don't like the handbrake (similar to VE commodore, but better).

Apex
4th July 2008, 03:07 PM
I think you should take a closer look at a

Oh and as for the high performance thing:

You've obviously never heard of the new Saab 93 Turbo X with Saab's new XWD (Cross Wheel Drive).


2.8V6 Turbo, 206kW, 400Nm, 0-100 in 5.7 Seconds

The Turbo X is a special edition to introduce XWD, only 2000 world wide (30 in Oz), and then XWD will start filtering down through the range.

I was told this car is the underpinnings for the new Vectra replacement.

Red AH SRI T
4th July 2008, 06:09 PM
The Turbo X runs on the same (although highly modified) platform as the Vectra C.

The Insignia runs on the new platform, which the new Saab 95, coming out next year, will also share.

Its believed that the next new 93 will run on Delta platform, the same as the next Astra. This is so the 93 and 95 don't compete with each other in terms of size.

NXA-16H
4th July 2008, 08:36 PM
Saab has to have the most boring dashboards ever. more boring than toyota...
<snip>

I can't help but but agree. For ****'s sake, even the dash looks uncannily like a retrofit from a Zafira. Take a look:
http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/reviews/aljames/NavMountPic1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/rolly850R/wheel.jpg

I bet my left ball I could take that SAAB steering Wheel and gear shifter, and whack them into my Zaffy. I must say I do like the leather.

But let's be honest, huh? If it weren't for all that carbon fibre, it would look bloody boring.. Certainly not befitting a luxury brand from Sweden.

Come on GM. Sharpen the **** up.
(Someone please introduce Bob Lutz to Steve Jobs. Maybe he'd do a world of good).
NXK-43Y

rjastra
5th July 2008, 02:26 AM
.

But let's be honest, huh? If it weren't for all that carbon fibre, it would look bloody boring.. Certainly not befitting a luxury brand from Sweden.

Come on GM. Sharpen the **** up.
(Someone please introduce Bob Lutz to Steve Jobs. Maybe he'd do a world of good).
NXK-43Y


The 9-5 is ancient (inthe scheme of things). The dashboard is no worse than the competitors were 6yrs ago