Astra Diesel Wagon

[J]

Finally! Pity it only comes in auto, with the detuned engine. But hey, it's a step in the right direction :)

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2939227.aspx

Diesel power for Astra wagon (May 2008)
Holden will release the Astra CDTi wagon through its dealer network in June

Diesel uptake in the Australian market is escalating from a trickle to a flood, although we probably won't see a diesel deluge until one or the other of the local large cars jumps in at the deep end.

In the meantime, Holden has expanded the Astra range with a diesel-engined wagon, the Astra CDTi wagon.

The 1.9-litre turbodiesel in the wagon is Euro IV-compliant and drives through a sequential-shift six-speed automatic transmission to return a combined cycle fuel consumption figure of 7.1L/100km in ADR81/01 testing.

Peak power of 88kW occurs at 3500rpm and the engine produces 280Nm of torque from 2000rpm.

Priced at $32,490, the Astra CDTi wagon features standard ESP, traction control, ABS/EBD, Brake Assist, dual front and dual side-impact airbags, curtain airbags, 16-inch alloy wheels, fog lights, cruise control, semi-automated climate control and a trip computer.

Colours available include: Casablanca White, Power Red, Star Silver metallic, black Sapphire metallic, Pannacotta metallic and Metro metallic.

[bornwild]

Wasn't it logical to get the diesel in the wagon first???

[Wraith]

Wasn't it logical to get the diesel in the wagon first???

+ 1

Agree, the best quality about oilers IMO is the fact that they're 'work horses' therefore the wagon should've been the 1st offering in the diesel Astra range!!!

At I guess though, I suspect GMH chose to sell the hatch model 1st because of the usual story - make money from the most sales - obviously targeting fuel concious or fuel price frightened people and the like, of which most arn't in the market for a wagon, so get the model that'll sell to the majority not the few :rolleyes:

[rjastra]

DId anyone read this article??

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/32429FC13C8BB9D9CA257455001A7C0E

Maybe diesel really isn't the answer anymore for the general public (ie someone who doesn't do lots of km)

I still don't understand why LPG is not promoted more. Payback is measured in months not years (or decades!! for diesel)

[Wraith]

DId anyone read this article??

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/32429FC13C8BB9D9CA257455001A7C0E

Maybe diesel really isn't the answer anymore for the general public (ie someone who doesn't do lots of km)

I still don't understand why LPG is not promoted more. Payback is measured in months not years (or decades!! for diesel)

My Bro is a believer in the above...

He has recently installed one of the latest technology LPG systems in his Magna and swears by it...

He claims: starts up 1st time everytime (even in cold weather), same power output as with petrol, runs smoother than with petrol, reasonable purchase and installation cost, especially after getting $$$ back from the government grant on these...

To tell you the truth, speaking for myself, I can't see any reason of advantage of purchasing a diesel car anymore these days, mainly because of the cost of the diesel fuel...for me the performance was never satisfactory and still isn't, (by the time they are, the cost of the diesel fuel won't make them attractive anymore!!!) they run visibly dirty (exhaust) plumes which I absolutely hate, so much for the enviroment, they are usually lower speced to equivalant petrol models to save O/A cost of the car, if you have a serious prob with them, they'll cost a fortune to fix and as mentioned above, to recoupe costs on fuel regarding range/endurance differences of petrol vs diesel at current prices will take years of motoring...possibly decades depending what your average km/annum is...

[EL BURITO]

I don't understand why we do not get the factory fitted LPG in the Astra like is available in the EU given current trends

[USC]

because it is not an australian car. Importing each and every model would cost holden a fortune.

[EL BURITO]

because it is not an australian car. Importing each and every model would cost holden a fortune.
yer but you know what I mean. like there techs are already familier with LPG it prob would have made more sence that bringing the CDTI over

[USC]

yer but you know what I mean. like there techs are already familier with LPG it prob would have made more sence that bringing the CDTI over

yeh for sure. I agree..the LPG would have been a better option than the diesel but you do get a lot more torque from the oilers:D they could prob. ditch the barina and bring the LPG astra over...:p

[bornwild]

Diesel is your only solution.

Performance, economy and low emissions. What else would you like? :)

Don't tell me that diesel ain't environmentally friendly...that's rubbish. We have had particle filters for years now and diesel emits less CO2 than petrol.

LPG?? Screw that....use more of it than petrol and the price of LPG ain't cheap anymore either.

The way I see it, our only option until Hydrogen becomes more economical is Diesel. Ohh...prices of Diesel are higher than petrol prices because they can sell diesel for however much they want to. Trucks need diesel, no matter what price. Diesel is cheaper to refine than petrol.

[EL BURITO]

our only option until Hydrogen becomes more economical is Diesel.


http://www.teslamotors.com/ :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[rjastra]

Don't tell me that diesel ain't environmentally friendly...that's rubbish. We have had particle filters for years now and diesel emits less CO2 than petrol.


Litre for Litre... Diesel produces 17% CO2 than petrol. It's a more energy dense fuel than petrol ... another reason you pay more for it ;)



LPG?? Screw that....use more of it than petrol and the price of LPG ain't cheap anymore either.


LPG is now < 70c/l. Less than 1/2 the price of Petrol. Well setup cars usually use 30% more lpg than petrol. Payback can be in 7 month if you take the LPG rebate into account. Thats versus 8-15yrs for diesels at the moment.



prices of Diesel are higher than petrol prices because they can sell diesel for however much they want to. Trucks need diesel, no matter what price. Diesel is cheaper to refine than petrol.

blah blah blah.... Asia is setup for diesel. High growth in the area means higher demand for diesel and higher prices here. Diesel is not at all necessarily cheaper to refine than ULP. And it certainly doesn't require less crude to produce.

As that article states... diesel prices will rise more rapidly in our region than ULP. Meaning the cost effectiveness of diesel (for us) is eliminated unless you do big kms.

You can all go on about turbo diesel torque... but you can now but numerous cars with modern small turbo petrol engines that are very economical and provide the same urge all you diesel lovers boast about :)

[Wraith]

Litre for Litre... Diesel produces 17% CO2 than petrol. It's a more energy dense fuel than petrol ... another reason you pay more for it ;)



LPG is now < 70c/l. Less than 1/2 the price of Petrol. Well setup cars usually use 30% more lpg than petrol. Payback can be in 7 month if you take the LPG rebate into account. Thats versus 8-15yrs for diesels at the moment.



blah blah blah.... Asia is setup for diesel. High growth in the area means higher demand for diesel and higher prices here. Diesel is not at all necessarily cheaper to refine than ULP. And it certainly doesn't require less crude to produce.

As that article states... diesel prices will rise more rapidly in our region than ULP. Meaning the cost effectiveness of diesel (for us) is eliminated unless you do big kms.

You can all go on about turbo diesel torque... but you can now but numerous cars with modern small turbo petrol engines that are very economical and provide the same urge all you diesel lovers boast about :)

Solid facts above !!!

BW read the numbers and the facts and please try to answer with some factual comments, not emotional ones LOL :)

P.S. you know I still love you :p :D

[sooty]

Litre for Litre... Diesel produces 17% CO2 than petrol. It's a more energy dense fuel than petrol ... another reason you pay more for it ;)


Too bad you use half as many litres per kilometre than you would with a petrol so it's not a relevant figure at all...
try this one for size....


If we take an average of all of the petrol cars and all of the diesel cars on sale today the average petrol car produces 214g/km of CO2 whilst the average diesel produces just 169g/km of CO2.

game set match...;)
also diesel produces more NOx....but petrol produces twice as much CO....
food for thought....

[bornwild]

Litre for Litre... Diesel produces 17% CO2 than petrol. It's a more energy dense fuel than petrol ... another reason you pay more for it ;)

Diesel cars produce less CO2 per km than any petrol :) And no, diesel isn't more expensive because of higher energy content per litre.




LPG is now < 70c/l. Less than 1/2 the price of Petrol. Well setup cars usually use 30% more lpg than petrol. Payback can be in 7 month if you take the LPG rebate into account. Thats versus 8-15yrs for diesels at the moment.

Agreed. Still rather buy a diesel for extra power. And what payback are you talking about?! Stop thinking of diesel as an alternative and think of it as a different class of car.

Cost per kilometre of travel(assuming 50l tank and 5.0l/100km for Diesel and 8l/100km for petrol and 10l/100km for LPG):
Diesel: $0.086 @$1.72/l
Petrol: $0.12 @$1.50/l
LPG: $0.061 @$0.62/l

Let's say that this car could be an Astra, now I'd certainly like to drive a 110kW and 320Nm car more than an LPG variant with barely 180-200Nm and 80kW
Game, set, match. :)


blah blah blah.... Asia is setup for diesel. High growth in the area means higher demand for diesel and higher prices here. Diesel is not at all necessarily cheaper to refine than ULP. And it certainly doesn't require less crude to produce.

Yes it is. Diesel is a cheaper product of fractional distillation. :)


As that article states... diesel prices will rise more rapidly in our region than ULP. Meaning the cost effectiveness of diesel (for us) is eliminated unless you do big kms.

You can all go on about turbo diesel torque... but you can now but numerous cars with modern small turbo petrol engines that are very economical and provide the same urge all you diesel lovers boast about :)

You've never been in a Diesel...have you?

[bornwild]

Solid facts above !!!

BW read the numbers and the facts and please try to answer with some factual comments, not emotional ones LOL :)

P.S. you know I still love you :p :D

Dear Ange,

I got all my facts right :p :p

ps. yes I know, it's hard not to love me :D :D mwaaahhhhh :D:p

[USC]

Diesel cars produce less CO2 per km than any petrol :) And no, diesel isn't more expensive because of higher energy content per litre.





Agreed. Still rather buy a diesel for extra power. And what payback are you talking about?! Stop thinking of diesel as an alternative and think of it as a different class of car.

Cost per kilometre of travel(assuming 50l tank and 5.0l/100km for Diesel and 8l/100km for petrol and 10l/100km for LPG):
Diesel: $0.086 @$1.72/l
Petrol: $0.12 @$1.50/l
LPG: $0.061 @$0.62/l

Let's say that this car could be an Astra, now I'd certainly like to drive a 110kW and 320Nm car more than an LPG variant with barely 180-200Nm and 80kW
Game, set, match. :)



Yes it is. Diesel is a cheaper product of fractional distillation. :)



You've never been in a Diesel...have you?

200NM is not bad for a car;)

[dieselhead]

Here we go again, another Otto vs. Diesel thread...
I'll only say this: even at $2.00/litre I am still ahead in a Diesel. Why? To get the same level of performance (under 7.5s 0-100km/h) driving an equivalent 2.0 petrol Turbo would cost me more. We need to compare Diesel vs PULP here. I average low 6 l/100km in my CDTi, but how much PULP do you think I'd burn in the petrol turbo, considering I've got a pretty heavy right foot? Exactly :D

Wanna save fuel, ride a bike. Or catch a bus. But don't even get me started talking about LPG... It stinks, autonomy is a joke, boot gone... Did I mention it stinks? I keep hearing people saying Australia is a big country, therefore we need big cars. Yeah, right. So you get an LPG Falcon that needs refueling every 350km, carries another 120kg of LPG gear on the top of those initial 1,900kg and half of it's boot is a ticking bomb. Does this make sense to you guys?
Since we are on a car enthusiasts forum I think we should talk driver cars, in this case Opel driver cars. There's driver cars and there's transport, right? Name one, just one LPG performance car. Any brand.

[kilcoy]

FYI brisbane has the cheapest diesel in the country...i kno a guy who has traveled all over australia and has kept a record.

and diesel engines have come a long way from the sluggish sooty old beasts on the Fergies.

[Huhness]

hey WTF??? 7.1L/100km?? i get that in my SRi and petrol is cheaper than diesel?? What advantage is this car??? :eh:

[Huhness]

FYI brisbane has the cheapest diesel in the country...i kno a guy who has traveled all over australia and has kept a record.
you don't need to travel all over the country to find that out they post prices on the petrol companies sites..

[bornwild]

Payback can be in 7 month if you take the LPG rebate into account. Thats versus 8-15yrs for diesels at the moment.


That's so over the top it's not even funny...:)

[Huhness]

But don't even get me started talking about LPG... It stinks, autonomy is a joke, boot gone... Did I mention it stinks?
Yea and a diesel smells like roses..

[Wraith]

Too bad you use half as many litres per kilometre than you would with a petrol so it's not a relevant figure at all...
try this one for size....



game set match...;)
also diesel produces more NOx....but petrol produces twice as much CO....
food for thought....

Not trying to pick here, I see we have indeed got the 'otto' :D vs petrol thing going again, but out of curiosity...

Has anybody got figures of not just all the 'diesel cars vs petrol cars sold' pollution figures, I don't see how this is a good arguement on the overall effect - but ALL the diesel vehicles period, ie: trucks and all other diesel burning logistics vehicles in the World ?

What are the pollutant results of that compared to petrol powered vehicles ?

BW yes, it's hard not to love you :p :)

[Wraith]

hey WTF??? 7.1L/100km?? i get that in my SRi and petrol is cheaper than diesel?? What advantage is this car??? :eh:

I get that and even lower from my petrol 2.5ltr V6 Calibra (auto and almost 1,400kg vehicle weight) !!!!!!

A good friend of ours (Troy) from the Cali forum has actually clocked over 900km range with a single tank in a manual V6 Cali - that's around 6.5ltr/100km :)

[rjastra]

Let's try a comparison of two identical cars but that use the two types of powerplants we are comparing

Fiat Ritmo

1.4T-Jet (110kw)
1.9TD (110kw) you may know this engine in the Astra CDTI

1.4L C02 167, COmbined l/100km 7.1
1.9TD C02 149, Combined l/100km 5.6

Here are the cheapest prices for fuel in the western suburbs of Sydney

PULP 155c/l
Diesel 173c/l

to drive 100km in each

Petrol $11
Diesel $9.70
Difference is $1.30/100km

Difference in purchase price. $3500

Payback is 270,000km or about 10yrs using the econmy figures alone.

As a point of interest.... Place $3500 in bank compounded at 7% for 10 yrs (just for an example) = $6800.

We can argue about resale figures... not real firm data on that yet.

I looked up a UK site for the about cars. Servicing costs for the TD work out about 20% more than the petrol car over 3 yrs.

Take it all into consideration and the running costs per km are about equal for either car.

And yes, I have been in a diesel car... Astra CDTI manual. IMpressive mid range grunt but the car is noisey at idle and is a touch laggy if not in correct gear and offers no more grunt midrange (less actually) than my chipped Polo GTi. The Polo did a run over the Blue Mountain on the weekend to Bathurst an back (450km). Quite a rapid trip (trying to keep up with mate on a BMW 1200GS) and it returned a nice average of 7.4L/100km ;)

Peugeot owners with the 2l HDI (100kw) report that is hard to get in the mid-low 6s average when cruising at the freeway limit and that's being extremely gentle. The only way to get super stingey figures for diesel is to select the smallest engine option. Peugeot owners who choose the 1.6L HDI get remarkable fiugures but the performance suffers accordingly.

[Wraith]

On top of the above figures, what is the fit out or 'kit' of the diesel car vs the petrol car ??

Usually the diesels are less equipped, smaller wheels, cheaper interior trims etc. to keep the O/A cost of the vehicle down, because of the cost of the diesel powerplant...

People also forget to factor in the costs if they're going to update on all these items ;)

Also I'm sure they don't consider the long term running costs of the diesel engine - should something go wrong with it and your out of warranty ! then we'll see how many people will actually buy another oiler again ;)

[SSS_Hoon]

or you could add LPG to your oiler and get upto a 30&#37; power & torque increase.


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

or you could add LPG to your oiler and get upto a 30&#37; power & torque increase.


SSS_Hoon


Now that's food for thought.......:)

I might look into this :)

[SSS_Hoon]

yep there is major gains to be had from jsut adding LPG to a oiler, then there is other areas were you can get added power and stuff from too the usual mods.

Not sure if a green box would still work on it or not though.


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

yep there is major gains to be had from jsut adding LPG to a oiler, then there is other areas were you can get added power and stuff from too the usual mods.

Not sure if a green box would still work on it or not though.


SSS_Hoon

If this is indeed the case, I think this might get the 'ottos' :D all excited and looking into LPG after initially bagging it LOL (jk) :p

I'm sure they'll find the space to fit the LPG tank afterall :)

[SSS_Hoon]

yeah i think it will.

My dad and them were looking into as there were going to run a Oiler VW Golf in the race team instead of the GTR's, but changed their minds and went on with the GTR and moved up a class so they can get rid of the crappy 27mm turbo inlet restrictors. They are running in that Superlap (timeattack) alst tune they had 430AWKW, they then spun a bearing hehehe.


SSS_Hoon

[Wraith]

yeah i think it will.

My dad and them were looking into as there were going to run a Oiler VW Golf in the race team instead of the GTR's, but changed their minds and went on with the GTR and moved up a class so they can get rid of the crappy 27mm turbo inlet restrictors. They are running in that Superlap (timeattack) alst tune they had 430AWKW, they then spun a bearing hehehe.


SSS_Hoon

Interesting....

I do know and have known for a long time that you can get excellent power from LPG...

A good mate of my cousin also a grease monkey, built a specially suited 'full time' LPG motor (5.0ltr V8) in an old VH Commodore years ago and let me tell you, this thing had major balls !!! I think he ran 12's with it and compared to similar petrol worked V8's it ran silky smooth with a totally smooth idle, the only bad point, was that it ran it's tank dry very quickly, all this was with past technology though, I'm sure you could do or build a much better result these days :)

I'll have to check with my Bro and see what range/economy figures he's getting with his on the V6 Verada...

[SSS_Hoon]

yeah my mums old ZD fairlane was on LPG with a mildly worked 351 clevland in it and it was the old setup had to get out and prime it on cold mornings to start it and what not.

Now they have LPG injection systems, its crazee i tell you.


Yeah you dont get as far and have too fill up more often but who cares.

SSS_Hoon

[rjastra]

Yeah you dont get as far and have too fill up more often but who cares.

SSS_Hoon


Of course if you are dual fuel then the range could be 900km+ on both tanks.

[bornwild]

Otto engine - petrol

Diesel engine - diesel

:p:p

[Wraith]

Otto engine - petrol

Diesel engine - diesel

:p:p


LOL I was stirring :D

[bornwild]

:D

On that note, in Bosnia I got a Taxi up to a weekend home, it was a steep incline maybe 25-30 degrees. The taxi was a TDi golf of the 3rd generation with about 60-80bhp. It pulled the little golf which was crammed with 5 people and a full boot of luggage up the hill with no troubles :)

Take that bitchesssssss :p :D

[Wraith]

:D

On that note, in Bosnia I got a Taxi up to a weekend home, it was a steep incline maybe 25-30 degrees. The taxi was a TDi golf of the 3rd generation with about 60-80bhp. It pulled the little golf which was crammed with 5 people and a full boot of luggage up the hill with no troubles :)

Take that bitchesssssss :p :D

When I was Italy, we purchased and drove a 1.0ltr N/A petrol 'Simca' - let me tell you this thing went like a jet...

My Father is from one of those mountain towns with all the roadways in the town and the road leading to it through the mountains on a very steep incline, but this thing with its 1.0ltr petrol and and only a 7" dia clutch in front of the manual trans. LOL just went up those roads like a rocket, even with 4 of us in the car...no joke

Very impressive :)

[bornwild]

My story is better :p :D

[Wraith]

My story is better :p :D

Nah mine is, because a Simca is more intruiging than a Golf TDI and my story is true :D :p

[bornwild]

lol :D

Can't wait for the new 150kW/500Nm Merc cdi that uses only 5.1l/100km mmmmmmmmm :D

[Wraith]

lol :D

Can't wait for the new 150kW/500Nm Merc cdi that uses only 5.1l/100km mmmmmmmmm :D

As previously stated by myself - when they start hitting around the 200kw mark (not worried about the torque) for the 2.0-2.5ltr displacement oiler engines - I'm a convert :)