A serious word of advice on Transmission Fluid.

[NXA-16H]

Ok ladies and gentlemen

Now I haven't posted anything on these forums for a good long while, but a rather distressing spate of transmission-related issues with my old XC Barina over the most recent 3 months has prompted me to gently inform you all of the ramifications of NOT keeping a Hawks-Eye on your ATF - It's level and much more importantly, its condition.

Now this article is going to be a tad long-winded, but do read it anyway...

The story goes back to January this year, when I sold my XC-Barina, in order to invest in my current Zafira. (Barina's still in the family, just not mine now).

Now from January through to roughly Mid-August, the Barina ran as smoothly as it ever ran whilst I owned it, since I poured serious dollars into its upkeep.

Shortly after having a 180'000km service performed though, it started registering multiple fault-codes, in conjunction with the Transmission Warning Light coming up on the dash.

These digital fault-codes, without exception, all indicated serious malfunction issues with a number of transmission components, including:

1. Transmission Input Speed Sensor. (RRP $285.00)
2. Transmission Output Speed Sensor. (RRP $285.00)
3. Transmission Shift Solenoid-E (Solenoid-E in the case of the Barina, involves the operation of the Torque Converter Clutch)
4. Transmission Control Unit (RRP $998.00)

Other digital fault codes indicated:

1. Incorrect Transmission Gear Ratio
2. Illumination of the Transmission Warning Light. (Yes, there is a code for the warning light too. This only comes up, when the ECU, or TCU detects a problem in the first place.)
3. Transmission, upon registering multiple fault-codes, automatically falls into "Limp-Home-Mode", whereby the driver must shift gears manually, starting in 1st, through 4th. This, supposedly protects the transmission from further damage.

First port of call upon experiencing this "Limp-Home-Mode", is a large Holden Dealership at Rosebery. Request initially made to retrieve the fault codes with their "Tech-2" Diagnostics computer.

Fault codes retrieved indicate a malfunctioning Output Speed Sensor.
Output Speed Sensor replaced by Rosebery Holden for a total of almost $600.00.

Fast-Forward to mid October...

Transmission again falls into "Limp-Home-Mode". This time, taken to an independant Transmission Specialist at Penrith.

Fault codes retrieved this time indicate a malfunctioning Input Speed Sensor, as well as Shift Solenoid-E (Torque Converter Solenoid)
OEM Input Speed Sensor replaced by Independant Transmission Workshop @ St.Peters for a total of almost $600.00.

5 days later...

Transmission for a 3rd time falls into "Limp-Home-Mode". This time, taken to Springwood Holden Workshop.

Fault codes retrieved this time again indicate a malfunctioning Output Speed Sensor, as well as malfunctioning Transmission Control Unit (TCU)

Output Speed Sensor replaced by Springwood Holden under Parts Warranty.
TCU replaced by Springwood Holden for a total of almost $1'100.00

1 Day later...

Transmission for 4th time falls into "Limp-Home-Mode". Taken straight back to Springwood Holden Workshop. (Threats made at this point to take the matter to the Dept of Fair Trading)

Springwood Holden claim, upon dropping the Transmission Pan, and draining the ashen black sludge that was once transmission fluid, that the transmission itself had ingested a certain amount of WATER (You read right folks).
That water, so Holden surmised, led to short-outs of the input/output sensors, and most likely the TCU as well.

Where precisely that water came from, remains a mystery. I never had the privilege of seeing this "water" for myself, as Holden conveniently threw it out.

Either the water entered the transmission from:

1. A corroded Radiator Coil that recirculates transmission fluid, keeping it cool. (Apparently, the radiator was losing fluid, upon being pressure-tested.)

OR

2. Water being sucked into the transmission via a Transmission "Breather-Hose".

(This Breather-Hose is located under the bonnet, the end of which in all cases I've seen, is tucked away in a sill, behind the front left-hand shock absorber.
Apparently, this sill is prone to fill up with water if there's rain, or if the car is washed. And so Holden surmise, the vacuum created in the breather-hose as the engine cools down, sucks whatever water is in the sill, straight into the transmission box.)

As a final precaution before recommending a total re-build of the transmission, the following is performed:

1. Radiator replaced with brand-new unit. Old unit is yet to be scrutinised for corrosion.
2. Transmission Breather-Hose re-located to an area of the engine bay that is not subject to water ingress. Breather-hose also inverted, to eliminate any risk of water ingestion.
3. Entire Transmission Fluid flushed out and replaced with "Esso JWS 3305G" ATF. This fluid is manufactured in Germany specifically for GM-Europe. ie all Astras, Vectras, Corsas, Saabs, etc.

This fluid is flushed out not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES!!!.

Total Bill for radiator and ATF, (excl Labor) roughly $600.00

GRAND TOTAL SPENT (incl. Labor) +/- $2'900.00

And after all that, no one workshop, be it at Rosebery Holden, St.Peters, Penrith, or Holden Springwood for that matter, could positively identify the root-cause of the problem/s. The common denominator, if you will.

Since the fluid flush-out, the Barina has travelled over 2600kms from Katooma-Sydney-Katoomba-Shepparton-Blacktown-Katoomba in a 96 Hour Period.

And now, it again shifts as smoothly as it ever did, albeit a tad more sluggish off the mark than 12 months ago.

Now, on the strength of all this, I am about to give the Zafira its 105'000km service. BUT THIS TIME, I'M FLUSHING THE ATF AS WELL.

I can't help but feel somewhat paranoid over this saga.

Now since last night, I ran some research on the grade of Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) that GM is peddling (Esso JWS 3305G), as opposed to any brand of Dexron III that you may get from a Servo.

And even though GM explicitly say that the automatic transmissions in all Astras, Vectras, Zafiras, etc are "filled for life", ie "never to be flushed", I have no choice but to disregard that advice and flush it out, say, every 30'000-50'000kms.

After all, it's just mineral-based oil, which breaks down just as badly as engine oil, right???

Read the following posts in this UK-based Vauxhall Forum, and decide for yourselves:

http://www.cavweb-forums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56082

I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter though.

Frankly, GM, as well as every other manufacturer that spins this "filled for life" bollocks have alot to answer for, when peoples cars fail from bad/burnt transmission fluid.

Tell me what you think, and how you feel on the matter.

NXK-43Y (nee NXA-16H)

[cbrmale]

I've had auto transmission cars because of my disability (I have to left-foot brake) for many years. I check the transmission fluid level regularly, even though my MY07.5 Astra does not have a user-accessible dipstick (it is there, I had to use a TIS2000 CD-manual to find it). It is supposed to be 'checked by the dealer', which means once per year! Bollocks to that: yearly is too long and do they check it in any case?

Invariably the transmission fluid level never changes. With the car before last, I noticed that the fluid level suddenly dropped to half-way between high and low. On investigation, I found the hose clamps to the radiator had vibrated loose and it was dripping slowly. So you never know.

I was not aware of the no fluid replacement policy. I am not in favour of this, mineral oil deteriorates, and it also picks up debris from wear inside the gearbox. Indeed, there are filters for the ATF. In my case, I will get the dealer to change the fluid, probably every 60,000 (4 years).

Car manufacturers increase service intervals to reduce servicing costs to make their cars more attractive to fleets. But just because engine oil CAN be change yearly, or ATF fluid never changed, doesn't mean it SHOULD.

Edit: I read the thread and noticed the fluid should be changed every 60,000km in severe driving. My car does a lot of city driving, and Canberra is very hot for half the year, so this justifies changing it regularly. I will not go the Dexron route however, to play safe it will get the genuine fluid. A few hundred dollars isn't worth it. Most dealers have equipment to suck the fluid out of the gearbox, so a change is a change (however it is always worth asking the dealer).

[Tricky Ricky]

Man that's some scary shit! It's amazing that so many mechanics couldn't diagnose the problem. It's unfortunate you had to spend so much $$ before getting some answers.....thanks for sharing.

From your posts its sounds like it is prone to affect auto vehicles, am I correct?

[NXA-16H]

Man that's some scary shit! It's amazing that so many mechanics couldn't diagnose the problem. It's unfortunate you had to spend so much $$ before getting some answers.....thanks for sharing.

From your posts its sounds like it is prone to affect auto vehicles, am I correct?

Actually, it's wise to flush out manual gearboxes, as well as autos. Automatic transmissions, or "transaxles" if they're front-wheel drive however, run alot hotter than manual gearboxes. Hence the breakdown of the oil itself.

Manual gearboxes should be flushed you see, because, rather than the oil breaking down from heat, it instead suffers progressive contamination from ultra-fine metal filings from the syncromesh.

Yes, there is a "filter", as well as a "Magnet" on the base of both auto and manual gearboxes that either trap contaminants or attract and hold onto metal filings, thereby preventing blockage of valve bodies etc.

The problem there is that, in a front-wheel-drive vehicle like all Barinas, Astras, Vectras, Zafiras etc where the gearbox is known as a "TRANSAXLE", it's not actualy possible to simply drop the pan and replace the filter like you do with engine oil, since the filter is an integral part of the transaxle itself.

In basic english, ths means that you would need to drop the entire transaxle and disassemble it, just to access this filter in the first place - in short, a partial overhaul/rebuild.

Now if you were to do that, it would most likely be more worth while doing a complete overhaul. Not really worth while until it fails altogether.

Certainly it's alot cheaper to get a complete overhaul than to buy a brand-new transaxle from GM. The cost of a new gearbox alone, at roughly $8'000.00 (excl. labour) would effectively write-off any vehicle that needs one.

NXK-43Y

[platypus]

funny you mention this as i found out the hard way that the astra F (probably the same box as yours Saab markings all over it) has no drain plug!

nor does it have a fill plug... this is apparantly to reduce contamination... :clap: well done GM!


to fill and/or drain said ATX box you need to do so through....
wait for it...
the dipstick tube!

hoorah!

actually there is a cap which is solidly wedged into place... me thinks this can be removed with much persuasion and then refitted with a new cap

[cbrmale]

funny you mention this as i found out the hard way that the astra F (probably the same box as yours Saab markings all over it) has no drain plug!

nor does it have a fill plug... this is apparantly to reduce contamination... :clap: well done GM!


to fill and/or drain said ATX box you need to do so through....
wait for it...
the dipstick tube!

hoorah!

actually there is a cap which is solidly wedged into place... me thinks this can be removed with much persuasion and then refitted with a new cap

The Astra automatic is Japanese and manufactured by Jatco. But it isn't because it is Japanese, because as far as I am aware all automatic gearboxes are drained by removing the oil pan and filled through the dipstick. This makes it very hard (if not impossible) for a home mechanic, as few of us have a hoist in the garage.

I also checked the maintenance schedule book on my SRi MY7.5 and found that the standard distance for all Astra petrol automatics to have the transmission fluid drained, flushed and refilled is 60,000km, and the recommended distance for heavy duty work is 30,000km.

[Tricky Ricky]

I don't even remember whe was the last time the transmission fluid was flushed from my cali, should get it done at the next service, coming soon....

[MK]

i had my Astras trans fluid changed couple of months ago at the 45000km service. The NRMA mechanics advised me the fluid was "burnt out"

i will have the auto trans fluid changed again on the 90000km service.

[BenGDoG3851]

Wow i havnt been on here in aaages :P lots of new ppl around

anyway i plan on draining as much fluid as possible from my mums auto 02 XC however the catalog at supercrap auto says i need to go to the dealer for the fluid.
does anybody know if i go to holden are they going to sell me a bottle of trany fluid or better still does anybody know what trany fluid i should buy (and based on what? eg: "its what the auto-trany mechanic guy put in mine")
cheers and a happy new years to everyone :)

[cbrmale]

Holden will sell you automatic transmission fluid, you need to know how many litres for your car.

You can usually tell burnt fluid when you check it, it will be brown rather than red, and it will smell burnt.

To prolong the life of an automatic gearbox, it is best not to let the car idle in gear for longer than necessary. At traffic lights I have always moved to neutral with the handbrake on, and then to drive before the lights change (by checking the traffic lights going amber to red on the cross-street).

I used to do this with my motorcycles, which would have warped their clutch plates if I idled in gear for too long.

[BenGDoG3851]

high five for the bike (i do it too :P )
as for the car it automatically goes to neutral when in D and foot brake is on and speed = 0 (can here it and it makes parking the car as close to my bike in the garage really hard cause you take ur foot off the brake and for a split second you dont move then suddenly the car lurches forward (maybe only half an inch but i dont wanna hit the bike :confused: )

the book says 5L but thats obviously from dry. and as its not really designed to be changed the research ive done suggests that a simple heat up and drain isnt going to get that much out but i'll just put back in as much comes out. (and post it up here for future reference)
oh well ive got monday off spose ill spend half a day siting waiting at holden :P
thanks.

[cbrmale]

I forgot about that, a common feature for many Opel automatics (but not my 2.2 automatic).

You are right, draining an automatic gearbox isn't easy. They are designed to be drained, it's part of routine service, but they need the right equipment. A hoist so you can stand under the car to remove the entire oil pan, and than a pump to empty the torque converter.

[carpy]

Just did this job on an XC Barina. Buy 4 litres of correct transmission fluid from Holden dealer (part no.09117946) Suttons at Roseberry charged $22.00 a litre. drive car around till transmission has warmed up, realease dipstick, use a hoist if you can but you can jack one side up and remove drain plug. You should get about 2.7 liters out. If you play around with the jack and lift from other side and the front you may get a bit more out. Replace plug and refill with new fluid.
Remember that engine must be running, hold foot on brake and move selector through the gears a few times back to park and then check level at cold mark with engine still running.. Do not overfill!
This still leaves about a litre of old fluid but the oil I drained @ 60,000 klm was as new. You will have fluid left over so that next time you will only need to buy 3 litres.
This is cheap insurance for your Auto transmission.
For manual gearbox use Castrol SMX 0 also from dealer. Ive done F18 Vectra boxes and they can be quite dirty @ 90,000 klm.