08 WRX STi

[bornwild]

Here (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/07/leaked-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-brochure/) you go Wraith :)

Certainly sounds like it will outperform the new Evo by miles.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/stibrochure1.jpg

Mass: 1480kg
Power: 225kW@6400rpm
Torque: 420Nm@4400rpm

Plus, it looks hot on those pics. The wider body really suits the hatch-design.

[btm]

offering it in a red colour this time too i see...

[Wraith]

Thankyou Bornwild :)

Nice to see a large colour choice, it seems to look good in any colour, I even like the white :)

Oh, just noticed the specs.......:)

Seem to be correct for the JDM car although I read it would have 450nm and weigh in at 1390-1410kg ?? no matter maybe our ADM 2.5ltr will have more torque...

[oneightoo]

and how many of those colours will come to aus?

[btm]

and how many of those colours will come to aus?

they are all imported so why wouldnt they offer all of them??

has this not been the case in the past?

[oneightoo]

no idea.. theres 3 colours there that look very similar tho..

[bornwild]

no idea.. theres 3 colours there that look very similar tho..

They'd look very different in the flesh. I, however, think that the rally blue still rules, with those gold bbs rims. :)

[Wraith]

Agree with BTM.

Subaru like Mitsubishi are trying to broaden the appeal of their cars to a larger demographic, so I'd be confident in saying all those colours will be available to ADM Sti's.

It's a catch 22 though, because with more choices, it makes it harder to make a decision, I must say that dark metallic grey and midnight blue look the biz :)

[oneightoo]

They'd look very different in the flesh. I, however, think that the rally blue still rules, with those gold bbs rims. :)

im with you on this one..

[btm]

dark metallic grey would be my pic

[oneightoo]

i'd take the black, with some some nice black rims with chrome dish.........

[Wraith]

Dark metallic grey or the midnight blue with hyper silver or shadow chrome centre with polished/chrome outer rim 19's for me :)

Although the choice might very well change after seeing them in the flesh...I reckon the red one will look hot too :)

[btm]

red one makes it look too much like the mazda 3 mps i reckon...

[Wraith]

I recently saw a red Liberty red wagon with some kind of kit on it - not sure if it was factory or not, but the rear styling of the tailgate and upper spoiler was similar to this new Sti hatch and in the red colour it looked very nice :)

True it does look alot like a Mazda 3 hatch (that's one thing I actually like about it) and if in any similar colour to Mazda colours, it will look a little like a Mazda 3 side on and even a BMW 1 series in a similar colour - all good me thinks :)

[skulless]

i still prefer the original blue colors...looks hot in red too...

[RudeOne]

Doesnt the Dark Gray Metallic look very 1 series bmw style?

[Wraith]

It does....

Like already mentioned, if you get one of these new Sti's in the same colour as a Mazda 3 hatch or 1 series Beemer hatch, it'll look similar to either one of those from certain angles.

But it also has its own unique exterior features like the bulged wheel arches and bonnet intake and rear diffuser with quad exhaust tail pipes :)

In real life I'm sure it'll look plenty different and distinctive, IMHO it looks better than either the Mazda 3 or Beemer 1 series, the interior looks pretty good too, not to mention it'll definitely have the better performance :)

[bornwild]

I hope we get the 2.0ltr turbo sti, not the stupid 2.5ltr.

[oneightoo]

whats wrong with the 2.5ltr turbo?

[btm]

i rate the 2.5L

[bornwild]

whats wrong with the 2.5ltr turbo?

2.0ltr better built, more performance focused...the 2.5ltr was built for the fat american arses, to carry them around to safeway.

[Wraith]

I hope we get the 2.0ltr turbo sti, not the stupid 2.5ltr.

ADM Sti will definitely be the 2.5ltr !

Don't worry Bornwild, the Sti spec 2.5ltr engine is far better than the basic Wrx spec 2.5ltr and it'll handle power upgrades to well over 325kw and over 600nm....

The other other obvious advantage is that the 2.5ltr will make more or equal power and torque compared to the 2.0ltr with less boost, prolonging it's lifespan.

In Japan (JDM) they have no choice but to use the 2.0ltr because of homoligation reasons - hope I spelt that correctly :)

[poita]

and also if there wasnt a 2ltr version they would be no longer welcome in the WRC, since they require a 2ltr production car as the basis.

[Wraith]

Correct Poita, that's what I meant above :)

[poita]

dont use bigs words ange, i'm from QLD remember :p:p

[Apex]

We will end up with used Jap import 2.0L STI’s within a year!
Do they sell the 2.0l STI in other markets outside Japan?

[Wraith]

dont use bigs words ange, i'm from QLD remember :p:p

Hahaha LOL sorry mate, :)

[entice]

I think the UK has access to the JDM 2.0STI, but may be as a grey import....

A friend has the outgoing JDM Spec C in Japan (ex Pat). He's considering the new one (to bring it back when he does) or a 2nd hand 22B.

whichever of the 3 he returns with, he'll certainly confine it to serious trackwork...

Spec C is very coarse, and wouldnt handle the spur very well..
NVH wise that is....

[Wraith]

We will end up with used Jap import 2.0L STI’s within a year!
Do they sell the 2.0l STI in other markets outside Japan?

AFAIK I don't think so......

JDM 2.0ltr Sti sales will suffice all homologation requirements :)

[Apex]

I think the UK has access to the JDM 2.0STI, but may be as a grey import....

A friend has the outgoing JDM Spec C in Japan (ex Pat). He's considering the new one (to bring it back when he does) or a 2nd hand 22B.

whichever of the 3 he returns with, he'll certainly confine it to serious trackwork...

Spec C is very coarse, and wouldnt handle the spur very well..
NVH wise that is....


Spec C are very nice, mate of mine has one and like you say it is a very harsh car, no sound deadening air-con power windows, nothing but speed!
Are there many 22bs in aus?

[Hackstra]

the white one looks great with the smoked tail lights i rekon

[Wraith]

Interesting you mention that, Subaru have only released 3 official 'teaser' pics of the new Sti and the rear shot does seem to show dark rather than chrome tail lights on this version :)

Hopefully that is the case with the new Sti as it's the only part of it that most people seem to dislike, if so we're in for one really hot hatch, both looks and performance, with a very nice and highly featured interior too :)

[Wraith]

Some pics of new Sti interior - very nice :) it will have leather seats as an option...

http://i21.tinypic.com/125gfwl.jpg

http://i21.tinypic.com/s2azxl.jpg

[bornwild]

Here it is guys in all it's glory, the final version :D I gotta admit, it looks heaps better than any other impreza thus far :D

http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.1M.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini1L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini2L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini3L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini4L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini5L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini6L.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2007/10/9/9071009.002/9071009.002.Mini7L.jpg

I think it will come to AUS with the 2.0ltr turbo as they say the 2.0ltr has been specially developed for this STi. :D

I love it.

[Wraith]

Yep, it's HOT :)

I'll have one of these over any other hatch out there ATM.....looks beaut in silver.

Just have to wait and see what the final pricing will be - I suspect around 65k drive away ???

[poita]

nice, still undecided about the arse end though
the front on shot of the black one gives it a very mean look, i like :)

[Wraith]

Agree Poita, arse end is spoilt by those chrome tail lights, pity they're not smoked...

But you can bet there'll be aftermarket replacements before long :)

That's the beauty of Jap cars and one thing I'm looking forward to if I get one - you'll never run short or have one bit of difficulty modding these, like we do with our Opels...

[USC]

yummy! me like very much so....but at 65K for a hatch..hmm... people who buy them wont want to drive them out of their 'carpetted' garage:D

[oneightoo]

ok, ive changed my my mind..

i like the look of this new imprezza now ive seen the sti..

and man that engine sits low, i wonder what sound that exhaust will give........

[Wraith]

Nah, definitely everyday ride :)

We'll have to wait for the test drive reviews, hopefully it's not too stiffly sprung as that would affect everyday drive-a-bility....

If Subaru have done a near similar job as Mitsu have done with the Evo 10, it'll have fantastic ride quality characteristics :)

[Orion_996]

Wow, I'm really liking it. I'm actually finding the newfound Impreza style more appealing than the previous, and the STi definetly takes the cake. I want one. Must say, more so than the EVO, which also looks far better than previous iterations, but I'm leaning to the STi way more. Good work Subaru, i can say now that I'm a convert.

[Wraith]

ok, ive changed my my mind..

i like the look of this new imprezza now ive seen the sti..

and man that engine sits low, i wonder what sound that exhaust will give........

Exhaust note will be subdewed for sure - but won't take much to get that traditional rex rumble happening though ;)

[Wraith]

Wow, I'm really liking it. I'm actually finding the newfound Impreza style more appealing than the previous, and the STi definetly takes the cake. I want one. Must say, more so than the EVO, which also looks far better than previous iterations, but I'm leaning to the STi way more. Good work Subaru, i can say now that I'm a convert.

Totally agree, I too since 1st seeing pics of the new Sti a couple of months ago have started leaning towards it, over the Evo 10.

I would prefer a 5 door hatch over a sedan as an everyday ride.

I strongly believe it'll be cheaper than the 'full house' Evo model too and also believe it'll have higher performance than the Evo stock vs stock, because it possesses a better power/weight ratio.

Evo will still handle better though....

As for engine displacement, I'm pretty sure ADM will be 2.5ltr not 2.0ltr - all the better, more power and torque, especially with upgrades :D

[btm]

that silver one looks awesome!

[blueraven]

still prefer the looks of the evo x..



but i could live with that ;) :D

[Wraith]

Nik, check out the Aussie test review vid I put up on the Evo X brochure thread, it gives details of the Aussie Evos pricing.......

Sounded like high 50's to high 60's depending on model and options....

[skulless]

definitely on my wish list...but vxr would be a cheaper option or even the sri-t :D

[USC]

definitely on my wish list...but vxr would be a cheaper option or even the sri-t :D


VERY different cars...

[bornwild]

VERY different cars...

I still dream of a 4wd VXR....:pray::pray:

[blueraven]

I still dream of a 4wd VXR....:pray::pray:

buy an astra coupe for ~$25k buy an older wrx/evo for ~20k...spend 10k swapping all the bits you want over....snd sell all the leftover bits.


2.0L awd turbo astra for ~40k

[btm]

buy an astra coupe for ~$25k buy an older wrx/evo for ~20k...spend 10k swapping all the bits you want over....snd sell all the leftover bits.


2.0L awd turbo astra for ~40k

it'd be unique, but you'd never be able to sell it for that much later unfortunatley

[Wraith]

buy an astra coupe for ~$25k buy an older wrx/evo for ~20k...spend 10k swapping all the bits you want over....snd sell all the leftover bits.


2.0L awd turbo astra for ~40k

Agree with BTM.......

I would never attempt to do the above, your always going to have problems of one sort or another and it'll end up costing alot more than you think as well !

I know from personal experience, been there done that ;)

And yes, you end up with a bastardisation nobody wants, if you ever want to get rid of it, which believe me you will in the end...

I'd prefer buying something for 40k already complete,

[rusole21]

buy an astra coupe for ~$25k buy an older wrx/evo for ~20k...spend 10k swapping all the bits you want over....snd sell all the leftover bits.


2.0L awd turbo astra for ~40k
haha that sounds funny. i know your only joking but it is funny. id love to see someone try!! im sure they all bolt up no worries:p

[blueraven]

haha that sounds funny. i know your only joking but it is funny. id love to see someone try!! im sure they all bolt up no worries:p

wasnt joking, but i didnt say anything would bolt up!! you'd need to be very handy with an angle grinder and a welder, as well as use the 10k i mentioned :P (i didnt say anyone would be that stupid to actually do it, but i have definately seen worse things that cost alot more money!!!)


anyone seen any confirmed pricing on these yet? or the Evo?

[Apex]

wasnt joking, but i didnt say anything would bolt up!! you'd need to be very handy with an angle grinder and a welder, as well as use the 10k i mentioned :P (i didnt say anyone would be that stupid to actually do it, but i have definately seen worse things that cost alot more money!!!)


anyone seen any confirmed pricing on these yet? or the Evo?

I have seen someone convert a Ford Laser TX3 Turbo to Evo running gear (engine gearbox and drive system) and that car was very reliable…and fricken quick! :cool:

[Wraith]

anyone seen any confirmed pricing on these yet? or the Evo?

Nik view this Aussie test vid, he mentions Aussie pricing for the Evo....

http://rocketpunchautoblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x-video.html

[Wraith]

More on the new Sti...

Interior looks good, maybe even better than Evo 10.

Nice Recaros...

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/10/2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-new-real.html

[bornwild]

Still the cheap plastics on the dash though...

[Wraith]

Still the cheap plastics on the dash though...

As long as it keeps the price down, looks good and has all the functions/features, it'll do just fine......:)

Would rather that than have a much higher quality interior and cop a rip off or impossible to afford price tag to buy the car, eg: any typical Audi ;)

[bornwild]

God I love using the cheap plastics line over and over again on this WRX :D

[Wraith]

Yeh, LOL be careful, you might end up with one :D

[btm]

New WRX STi snubs boy racers

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=45402&s_rid=smh:ClassiePuff&IsPgd=0

Subaru’s next-generation hero car is faster than before, but the car maker says softer styling is designed to shed the boy-racer image that would harm sales. RICHARD BLACKBURN reports.

Subaru has further distanced itself from its boy racer heritage by bringing out a more subdued and sophisticated version of its hero car, the STi.

The new STi has 15kW more power (221kW) than its predecessor but has softer suspension and a more subtle body kit.

The emphasis has shifted from hardcore performance car to prestige hot-hatch, with Subaru targeting potential Euro-hatch buyers alongside its traditional STi base.

And there will be a price tag to match. The new STi will be priced from between $60,000 and $70,000, with two variants in the model range. The current STi is $56,990.

Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior defends the price hike, saying that typical STi buyers were spending $10,000 to $20,000 on aftermarket modifications.

He says the new car gives STi buyers significantly more differentiation from the WRX than its predecessor. Only three panels – the front bonnet, roof and rear door – are common with the regular WRX. The front wheel-arches now bulge out, making the car 55mm wider

The flared arches extend into the front door of the flagship Impreza, while the track is also wider, by 45mm at the rear and 40mm at the front.

Gone is the wild rear wing, replaced by a less conspicuous roof lip spoiler and less overt styling cues. The trademark large bonnet scoop is now more neatly integrated into the front bonnet.

The front and rear bumpers are unique to the STi. The front bumper has vents designed to dissipate the hot engine air from under the bonnet, while the rear bumper has quad exhaust pipes.

Inside, the STi features different dash inserts, a matt finish on the dash, a different headlining and carpet, and different instrumentation, with the speedo dials surrounded by STi’s trademark cherry red.

But the biggest changes are on the centre console.

Subaru has included its controversial SI-drive system, which changes the car’s throttle characteristics from sedate to sporty at the twist of a knob.

Dismissed by some as a marketing gimmick, the system allows the driver to select from three settings: a fuel-saving setting for highway cruising, a sportier setting for spirited driving, and a sharp setting for competition and track work.

The centre console also has a new version of Subaru’s active centre differential, which changes the handling characteristics of the car by tightening or loosening the car’s two limited-slip differentials.

The new version allows the driver to select settings manually as with the old STi, but it also has three preset modes: a normal mode and two modes that are biased towards either oversteer or understeer.

Despite knocking the hard edges off the STi, Subaru claims the car will be quicker than the previous model.

While the old model reached 100km/h in a claimed 5.4 seconds, Subaru says the new one is likely to stop the clock at around five seconds flat.

Senior says the engineers have got the mix right with the Impreza.
And he says that world rally championship driver Petter Solberg was one of the catalysts for the change.

Solberg apparently told the manufacturer the STi’s suspension was too firm.

“Petter was at a dealer conference and told everyone that the ride on his rally car was better than the STi’s. That got people thinking,” says Senior.

The change in direction for Subaru distances it from its traditional rival, the Mitsubishi Evolution X, which has stayed faithful to its motorsport heritage, with a new automated manual double-clutch system as its centrepiece.

Subaru is investigating a similar system but says it is not a priority and argues that its six-speed manual gives better driver control going into and coming out of corners.

Senior isn’t concerned that Subaru may lose customers to the harder-edged Mitsubishi.

“If we just target Evo, we are limiting ourselves to about 50 sales a month and we want to do more than that,” says Senior.

Subaru is aiming to sell about 70 STi-badged Imprezas a month and expects the incremental sales to come from prestige European hatches such as the Volkswagen R32 and Audi S3.

“We are giving people a more rounded overall package, based on performance, specification, pricing and technology,” says Senior.

Senior claims the new engine is more driveable than the one it replaces, with its 407Nm of torque more accessible throughout the rev range.

He says the new direction is recognition that the WRX needs to adapt to survive.

At its peak during the dotcom era, the Impreza WRX was doing 400 sales a month. Prior to the launch of the new model last September, it was doing about 90 per month, propped up by special editions.

Senior says the brand was being held back by the boy racer image of the previous model.

“A second-hand, lime-green WRX with 20-inch wheels, doof doof music blaring, and fluffy dice hanging from the rear vision mirror is not a great ad for the brand,” says Senior.

He says where the previous WRX had struggled to sell in more affluent suburbs because of its boy racer image, the new car was doing much better.

“We are also selling to more females” says Senior, admitting there has been a backlash from the WRX faithful on blog sites. He argues that the majority of those critics are not new-car buyers.

“The people who bought those first WRXs new have matured themselves a little and want a little bit more refinement,” says Senior.

[bornwild]

I must say, this new STi looks the biz! :)

Any reviews around?

[Wraith]

Agree with all the above.......

The new Wrx's both standard and Sti look great.....I wouldn't mind either one :)

And totally agree and about time Subaru woke up and got rid of the boy racer and ugly look of this car - it's the reason why I've never wanted one in the past....I reckon they'll start selling much better now, I'm already seeing these new Imprezas on the road everywhere :)

[btm]

i havent seen any wrx's yet, but seen a few of the "boring" looking ones :)

[entice]

at 60 tp 70, the 135I is looking good also

[blueraven]

they are insane to to price it *just* over the luxury car tax threshold. The increased sale alone should make up for the discount in price....

[bornwild]

they are insane to to price it *just* over the luxury car tax threshold. The increased sale alone should make up for the discount in price....

They're pushin the price up??? Didn't read that bit!!

That's a shot in the foot!

[poita]

bout the fifth sentence into the article


And there will be a price tag to match. The new STi will be priced from between $60,000 and $70,000, with two variants in the model range. The current STi is $56,990.

[Wraith]

That's the same pricing range as the new Evo 10 models.....

We'll have to wait until the ADM models of these both land here and see what they're all about and if they're on par or not, if they will cost around the same price as each other and go from there....

But I think no matter how good the Evo 10 and Sti are, at those prices they make the basic new turbo Lancer and Wrx outstanding value for money as these will be priced starting at under 40k !!!

[Black Nugget]

ooooo new motor landed today with STi review on page 33, however its the jap 2.0 not our 2.5

4/5 stars and an estimated 60K plus price

"two specs, top end with BBS and Recaros":drool:

BUT

"Less grip, more expensive and muted steering"

overall it seems that it's very similar to the old one...

[btm]

muted steering????

[Wraith]

I think you'll find the ADM spec Sti will have a more compliant ride and will be faster than the old one...... :)

The price hike is always a bummer :(

[Wraith]

ooooo new motor landed today with STi review on page 33, however its the jap 2.0 not our 2.5

4/5 stars and an estimated 60K plus price

"two specs, top end with BBS and Recaros":drool:

BUT

"Less grip, more expensive and muted steering"

overall it seems that it's very similar to the old one...

Sure does depend on who's doing the review - read this one and they reckon it's the best Sti ever.....better in every way to the previous one and again it's the JDM 2.0ltr on test - hopefully our ADM and USDM Sti's will be as good !

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=123381

[Wraith]

Big article in todays Herald Sun cars guide on the new Sti also :)

Very impressive :) except for the pricing of both the car and some of the accessories :(

[Wraith]

at 60 tp 70, the 135I is looking good also

If the 135i will cost 60-70k hell I'll buy one !!!!

Not bad looking, great drive and handling, that excellent 3.0ltr TT engine that's good for 300kw and 500nm with a Xede - hell yes :)

I doubt it though Bill, I think it'll be priced at around 90k at least here in Aust....

Here's a good review vid on the new Sti - looks HOT in red :)

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/112_0802_2008_subaru_impreza_wrx_sti/

[rusole21]

Went and saw one yesterday! Looks so freakin hot! Im goin for a drive next wednesday! Yew!

[Wraith]

Went and saw one yesterday! Looks so freakin hot! Im goin for a drive next wednesday! Yew!

That's awesome, where abouts are you ??

Look forward to your review - they certainly would look heaps better in real life :)

We'll have to wait till 2nd quarter of next year in Melb. before we see any :(

[rusole21]

Im in Perth. They called me an hour before it was in the shop. Couldn't take it for a drive yet tho as it wasnt licenced or registered.

Dam it looks great! The one there is the r spec. HAs leather and sweade with the bbs wheels. Hot!!!! $72000 is a bit much tho..

Apparently it can dial more than 65/35 tourque split tho. Holy hell!:D

[blueraven]

was a confirmed price? which dealer i wanna go see it :)

[Wraith]

Im in Perth. They called me an hour before it was in the shop. Couldn't take it for a drive yet tho as it wasnt licenced or registered.

Dam it looks great! The one there is the r spec. HAs leather and sweade with the bbs wheels. Hot!!!! $72000 is a bit much tho..

Apparently it can dial more than 65/35 tourque split tho. Holy hell!:D

Damn that price is a bitch, with ORC's it'll hit 80k :(

It is an impressive hi-po machine, no question, its beaten the new Evo 10 on all the reviews/tests so far !!!!

0-100km/h in 4.8sec. 1/4 mile in 13.3sec. one hell of a good starting point, re-flash only and hello low 4's and mid 12's everyday beaut ride :D

Up close in the flesh, it'll look awesome as previously mentioned, look at these pics, it looks great and the real deal always looks heaps better :)

http://i9.tinypic.com/87nmi5y.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/6ofjryw.jpg

http://i5.tinypic.com/7wii6ft.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/8fwsk5s.jpg

[rusole21]

Ozzy park subaru.

Thats including ORC. 72k including ORC

[blueraven]

way too much $$$ farking :(

[rusole21]

way too much $$$ farking :(
Thats for the type R tho. Prob $65 including orc for the base. Which i recon is better. Nicer wheels compared to those bbs spec ^^ up there.

[xplosv57]

If the 135i will cost 60-70k hell I'll buy one !!!!



Nah the 135i will start round the high 70 - low 80k mark!!!! I think the 135i is in a very different league to the STi, different market!!!

Love the look of the new STi but 70k+ for a Suby, i dunno!!!!

Then again i'd pay 70+ for a Holden which aren't the most reliable things so the STi can't be a bad thing!!!!

[Wraith]

Nah the 135i will start round the high 70 - low 80k mark!!!! I think the 135i is in a very different league to the STi, different market!!!

Love the look of the new STi but 70k+ for a Suby, i dunno!!!!

Then again i'd pay 70+ for a Holden which aren't the most reliable things so the STi can't be a bad thing!!!!

I forgot to mention, in my post above, I was referring the 'new 135i Coupe' not the hatches....:)

It's much better o/a than the hatches but I doubt the Coupe will land at under 90k ???

As for this mentality of " I wouldn't pay that much for this brand or that brand" that is becoming a very unfounded factor in car choice, don't get me wrong, I know where your coming from, I too 'used' to think that way, but not anymore, nowadays I look at what the car is all about and what I actually get for what I pay :)

If you take 'everything' into account you actually get for the money outlay, you'll find that it's hard if not impossible to justify the price gap of the more expensive Euro marks...

And the simple truth is, the competition is continually getting better ! Euro marks are not as far ahead as they once were and being overtaken by some of these latest offerings from the Japanese car Industry.

Some brands do progress and get better, I remember the days when Honda was the Hyundai of their day - not anymore right ;)

In the end it's each to their own, if you feel comfortable with a certain brand/badge and can afford to pay for it, go for it :)

[xplosv57]

I forgot to mention, in my post above, I was referring the 'new 135i Coupe' not the hatches....:)

It's much better o/a than the hatches but I doubt the Coupe will land at under 90k ???



When you say 'hatch', do you mean the 5 door we already have in Aus?? In that case, the TT 3.0 won't be released in that bodyshell!!!

When i said between 70 and 80k i was referring to the Coupe, it's arriving here as a Coupe and followed by a Convertible later on (125i and 135i)

[Wraith]

When you say 'hatch', do you mean the 5 door we already have in Aus?? In that case, the TT 3.0 won't be released in that bodyshell!!!

When i said between 70 and 80k i was referring to the Coupe, it's arriving here as a Coupe and followed by a Convertible later on (125i and 135i)

Yes, as you've said above is what I meant Steve :)

I was always referring to the upcoming Coupe powered by the 3.0TT, not the 5 door hatches.

I like the Coupe (which is still 12-18 months away ???) and if it will indeed be priced at 70-80k it might be worth looking at.... :)

[xplosv57]

The Coupe will be between 75 and 85k and you'll see them early next year, not 12-18 months away!!!

I'll let you know when i know exact details about them!!!

[skulless]

errr...maybe this one will be better? :)

http://www.zerotohundred.com/uploads/cash/Mitsubishi%20Ralliart/lancer%20sportback5.jpghttp://www.zerotohundred.com/uploads/cash/Mitsubishi%20Ralliart/lancer_sportback2.jpghttp://www.zerotohundred.com/uploads/cash/Mitsubishi%20Ralliart/lancer_sportback3.jpghttp://www.zerotohundred.com/uploads/cash/Mitsubishi%20Ralliart/lancer_sportback4.jpg

[Wraith]

Yeh, I know about that one, it's been discussed at length on the 2 Evo forums I'm a member of :)

However don't expect it to be/look exactly like those pics above, it'll be watered down in a similar fashion to what the Evo 10 was from proto to production car...

With regards to the Evo, that hatch version will be IMO be nicer than the sedans, but if it comes in at even more weight (which seems highly likely) it'll do even more to hurt performance, which is already under par for the new Evo :(

I think it'll be a good gamble to wait for the Evo 11 or 12, I hear plenty about introduction of a 6spd MT and 2.4ltr turbo MIVEC engine, which should put them back on top :)

[rjastra]

Another X vs STI test

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0803_subaru_wrx_sti_vs_mitsubishi_evolution_x

I think that maybe the "loser" may actually be a better car for 99% of potential purchasers (ie people who drive on roads not the track).

Please discuss :)

[Wraith]

Yep, totally agree and once again already seen and discussed this one on the Evo forums....

Here's a comment from one of the guys on the Evo 10 forum:

"I always read these comparasion test with a grain of salt. Coming from motorcycle back ground when often 600 supersports are very close in performance and specs. You can read different magazines and they will all have different results. If you look closely often which bikes wins the comparison test usually coninsides which manufacture has bought the most advertising pages in that issue.

As with Motor Trend if you can clearly see Mistu Lancer ads all over the page. So guess who spent the more advertising dollars.

It be also interesting to see the STI vs EVO on a larger track with STI's extra speed and braking prowness.

Would love to see what settings they used for the STI as well. I'm sure you could correct the understeer with the AUTO minus setting or moving the torque bais 75% towards the rear with the DCCD setting.

I would put more weighting in more un-baised test like Best Motoring, 5th Gear and Top Gear. Can't wait till those comparasion test come out."
__________________

If you look at the results, the Sti is the 'actual' winner !!!

It is impressive in terms of shear performance, 0-100km/h in 4.7sec, 1/4 mile in 13.4sec and far superior brake/stopping distance compared to the Evo 10.

It wins in all but 2 categories, only one of them performance related, ie: a better time around that particular track, and 2nd, "more fun car" which is purely speculative and totally dependent on the individual person...

I totally agree with what you said above and have stated the same thing (along with others who also agree on the Evo forums) that the Sti is the better and higher performance street car - no question !

I'd be confident in saying that 95-99% of people who buy either one of these 2 cars will never 'track use' them, so that slight advantage the Evo has in handling won't serve it any use on any given typical day on any given typical street/road, fact is with all bias aside, stock vs stock with equal driver skill/competence the new Sti will bash the Evo 10 in a street duel...

However looking also at other aspects, such as safety, room/space etc. the Evo seems to be the better of the 2 and this is what mainly accounts for its extra weight and therefore reduction in performance.

No doubt with tuning, a highly tuned Evo 10 will be an awesome machine :)

[rusole21]

Wow! Did they say that the STi can go 75% rear wheel drive? Thats freakin amazing! I knew it was more than the last model but thats awesome! ATTESA standards almost. Funny how 20 years on and the ATTESA is still the bench mark of AWD systems.

I understand peoples oppinions re. "how many people ever take it on the track" but that is a really stupid argument isnt it. I mean i dont read comparisons of cars so i know which one will pick the kids up or the shopping the best. Its so stupid. Yes 99% of people will not track them but that doesnt mean that 99% of people drive like grandmas. Such a stupid argument.

STI FTW!!!

[Wraith]

Yes, very true.

It amazes me also how peoples bias gets in the way of what is actual truth and fact....I still like and prefer the Evo 10, but I'll call it as it is with these 2, and ie: Sti FTW !!!

For eg. on the Evo forums, there are only a few people who will state the obvious, that the new Sti is a superior performer to the new Evo 10.

The rest will carry on how an Evo can beat the Sti by 0.5 or 1.0sec around a typical 1.5 mile track or something like that :confused:

As has been said, most owners will never smell a track, or drive to the limits these cars have on the roads either.

As for the Sti's AWD, it now has the same system used on the Libertys and you can manually alter the torque split up to 75/25 rear/front respectively - great feature yes, but not quite like Nissans GT-R set up, which can go 100% rear wheel drive :)

[blueraven]

just went and had a look at the sti in the flesh...better than the photo's...but still not setting my pants on fire. Interior is bloody nice on the r version.

semi confirmed pricing : 60999 for stock sti + orc and 65999 for r version plus orc. satnav is a 3 k option....

[dieselhead]

Don't know about you guys, but I would rather spend $65k on the 188 kW AWD Audi S3. It has almost the performance of the two little Japanese beasts but interior class is in a different league. I also love the understated exterior, no fancy wings or anything like that. I mean, have a look at the new STi, compare that to an S3!
I'm afraid that Mitsubishi and Subaru are missing the point here. Lifting the price so close to fast and classy Europeans such as S3 or BMW 130i can't be too healthy. They used to be best bang for buck these two. The bang is still there but you need more buck for about the same thing, isn't it?

[rjastra]

Don't know about you guys, but I would rather spend $65k on the 188 kW AWD Audi S3. It has almost the performance of the two little Japanese beasts but interior class is in a different league. I also love the understated exterior, no fancy wings or anything like that. I mean, have a look at the new STi, compare that to an S3!
I'm afraid that Mitsubishi and Subaru are missing the point here. Lifting the price so close to fast and classy Europeans such as S3 or BMW 130i can't be too healthy. They used to be best bang for buck these two. The bang is still there but you need more buck for about the same thing, isn't it?

Shhhh, don't be so logical. But you are correct. The S3 would be in another league for fit and finish. Very understated. There are lots (equal of the Subaru and Evo fraternity) mods available for VW/Audi products.

There are even computer mods/controllers for the Haldex AWD system so you can modify how it works and the front/rear split.
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/07.audi.s3/s3.int.2.500.jpg
http://www.motorauthority.com/images/Tuners/OCT/Audi_S3/OCT_Tuning_S3_MotorAuthority_021.jpg

[dieselhead]

Why would you ever want to spend you hard earned cash on a hideous new STi (sorry to Subaru fans, but I still think is ugly) when you can have that German for just as much?
I would favor the STI if say the Subaru would drive like an absolute GOD, which it doesn't-that's a title reserved now for Godzilla, and the S3 would be an absolute dog, which is not the case, not anymore... The situation will be even more dramatic in Europe, where the Germans are cheaper than here while the Japanese have higher import taxes...
Fact is, Mitsubishi and Subaru are so busy fighting each other that missed the fact they entered in the wrong arena with heavyweights like BMW, VW and Audi. Ouch! :)

[entice]

Umm, I think you guys are missing the point.

The s3 was apparently going to demoralise STI owners way back when it was released a few years ago. same as per R32.

Well, havig spent some time around winton and other victorian tracks, and yes, in an STI, I can tell you that on a track, neither of those come close. Mods on a subaru platform are far, far more economical, and there is a larger technical knowledge base, and support available in Australia.

i am not denying the capabilities of teh S3/R32 for picking up the kids, getting to work, and teh occasional fang. But, for the hardcore enthusiast, teh STI/EVO would represent a far more feasible option.

A friend of mine Had a B4, then an S3 (it was nothing but problems for him, and tuning ws super expensive) and now an R32. He loves teh R32, but still has a soft spot for teh boxer 4. That said, he still owns that (his wife drives it). As far as mods and support? The Subaru was far easier to seek support, and expertise, as well as cheaper on parts. He is paying through the nose for "enhancements" to his R32. Yes, fit finish and interior is far better on teh germans, but VFM? I'll stick with teh Japanese on that one...

Also, if I were buying with teh intent on it having a hard life, I'd choose eo...10yr powertrain warranty....

[rjastra]

Umm, I think you guys are missing the point.

The s3 was apparently going to demoralise STI owners way back when it was released a few years ago. same as per R32.

.

The S3/R32 were never aimed at the STI/EVO market. You have to wonder who has won the war with both the STI and EVO X both moved upmarket and softened. Seems like the Japs eye off the prestige market the Europeans have staked out.

As was said by one Subaru head honchos.... you can't built the prestige of a brand if the buying public sees your cars being tarted up with yellow leather interiors, atrocious paintjobs and chrome wheels.

Engine enhancements will be harder on the R32 simply because it has a normally aspirated engine! This is not the case with the new S3.

[Wraith]

Don't know about you guys, but I would rather spend $65k on the 188 kW AWD Audi S3. It has almost the performance of the two little Japanese beasts but interior class is in a different league. I also love the understated exterior, no fancy wings or anything like that. I mean, have a look at the new STi, compare that to an S3!
I'm afraid that Mitsubishi and Subaru are missing the point here. Lifting the price so close to fast and classy Europeans such as S3 or BMW 130i can't be too healthy. They used to be best bang for buck these two. The bang is still there but you need more buck for about the same thing, isn't it?

It's funny you should mention this one.....

I was actually at an Audi dealer (Nepean Hwy) doing just that on Saturday :)

I was more interested in the new Audi TT than the S3 though, there was a white S3 there and I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because for me IMHO the S3 in looks, is just a plain flat box, very unappealing, don't like it at all !

It has a nice interior (and very similar to the TT) going for it though, this is where it has a distinct advantage over the Japanese competition, especially over the bland interior of the new Evo, but the Sti's interior is not too shabby at all... :)

The new Sti and Evo in my eyes are both more visually appealing and both (especially the Sti) don't have all the big wings etc. of the past models anymore :)

As for power/performance/upgrades comparisons, Entice has pretty much covered it with his post, I've made enquiries previously with APR on tuning for the VW turbo 4 and it's not cheap if you want to get serious power out of these engines :(

I agree the pricing for the new Evo and Sti is too high, it may change down the track, ' if ' sales proove to be poor, there is also the new strength of the Aussie dollar which will hopefully bring car costs down :pray:

[d.c.]

Getting away from the Evo vs STi thing a little, saw my first STi in the flesh today. Only noticed it being different from a WRX by the wheels to start with but as it turned passed me I saw big pumped guards and a very tough stance. I was quite impressed, looked good in black.

Back on the Evo vs STi thing, cant wait for the first few tests on home soil surely Motor and Wheels must have put them against each other by now. Not that these guys are the be all and end all of car testers but I do prefer to read test done on aussie roads.

[Wraith]

Don't worry it won't be long now till we get some local reviews...

I still havn't seen an Sti in the metal, but I'm sure I'll be impressed :)

Already seen a few of the new Wrx's and like it alot, just spotted one on the road last week in blue, very nice, the overall size and proportioning of the car is very good, whereas the new Lancer is a bit big and bulky....

[btm]

seen a few myself... white is taking my fancy the most so far

[Wraith]

seen a few myself... white is taking my fancy the most so far

Agree, same here, white is my fav. colour so far for the new Wrx/Sti :)

White sure is becoming popular lately as it seems to suit the 'fancier' new car
shapes.

It is also the no.1 colour choice so far, for all orders taken for the new GT-R and the new Skyline G35 Coupe...and it also seems to be the most popular colour for the new Evo 10 !

White and silver already are the most common car colour, but I think we're going to be seeing alot more of white around in the future...

[btm]

white is the new black

[Wraith]

Check out this unusual comparo of the new Sti vs the new Shelby Mustang...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/MediaNav/articleId=123965/firstNav=Gallery/videoId=20190448

F#*k the Sti looks so impressive in this vid, no wonder it's giving the new Evo a beating !!!

The USDM spec Sti in the vid is about exactly the same as what we'll get here in Aust. :)

It's gotta easily be the hottest performance hatch around ATM :)

[aaiezz]

Check out this unusual comparo of the new Sti vs the new Shelby Mustang...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/MediaNav/articleId=123965/firstNav=Gallery/videoId=20190448

F#*k the Sti looks so impressive in this vid, no wonder it's giving the new Evo a beating !!!

The USDM spec Sti in the vid is about exactly the same as what we'll get here in Aust. :)

It's gotta easily be the hottest performance hatch around ATM :)

holy krap!! O_O dude noooo the mustang got destroyed!!! but i guess you cant beat better technology.

[poita]

yer mustang ahs nothing on it, kinda like wen they put it up against teh lotus exige on top gear lol
the lotus ate it by a long way around the track too lol

[Wraith]

Yeh, true guys, that's why I said 'unusual' comparo :)

They are 2 totally different cars, but they did give their reasons for pitting these 2 against each other - basically 2 sports cars that cost the same price - in the U.S anyway :)

I've seen quite a few vids of the new Sti, but this is the first that you can really see how quick and nimble this new Sti hatch is at a glance - top driving by the 'pilot' at the wheel I must say ;)

[dieselhead]

Jeremy Clarkson's review of the STi. (http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article3209571.ece) Absolutely hilarious!

"There are many ways to tell if someone is a bit thick. You can sit them in a room and ask them to push various bits of plastic into a wooden box. Or you can ask them to describe a cloud. Or you can carefully measure the distance between their eyes, the height of their forehead or the length of their arms.
But there’s another, easier way of establishing whether someone is two spanners short of a tool box. Just ask them this simple question: “Are you wearing a Subaru rally jacket?” Because if they are, you will need to speak more slowly.
I’ll let you into a little secret. Each week, when Top Gear is on air, we prepare two scripts. One is a polysyllabic orgy of complex thoughts on the meaning of human happiness. And the other is full of words such as “tits” and “arse”. Choosing which one eventually gets used depends on how many audience members turn up in Subaru Imprezas.
No, really. If the audience is largely in tweed and Viyella, you can make them laugh with oblique references to Dickens and the iniquities of colonialism in 19th century Calcutta. If it’s a forest of Subaru baseball caps out there, we stick to genitals and spend the day skidding around the studio on banana skins."

[Apex]

Not sure if you guys get New Zealand autocar over there but there is a good comparison article in the Feb08 issue between the recently released STI and Evolution 10.
Worth a read as it’s an Australasian perspective and the cars are tested on Kiwi roads (sealed and unsealed) :)

[Wraith]

Not sure if you guys get New Zealand autocar over there but there is a good comparison article in the Feb08 issue between the recently released STI and Evolution 10.
Worth a read as it’s an Australasian perspective and the cars are tested on Kiwi roads (sealed and unsealed) :)

Can you get an extract from it and post it up....would be interesting to hear their view :)

DH what did they actually say about the car - we all know it hasn't been the best demographic which purchased these cars in the past ;)

[sooty]

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the STi is an amazing feat of engineering..but god damn that thing is ugly, i see no way that ANYONE can find that thing attractive.

PS. They shouldv'e raced it against the Roush Mustang, it's far superior to the Shelby POS

[entice]

iI actually like the look of teh New STI.

Didnt like pignose, or bug-eye, but my favourite is still peanut-headlight (came in after bugeye, before pignose).

The most controversial (apar from teh rearwinf on my sti - peanut-headlight) car in teh range for me was always the early ones.. "how dare they have such a large spoiler" is what everyone thought of my MY97 WRX.... and from there they just kept getting bigger.... looking back at the 97, it's the most understated of teh lot, with a tiny bonnet scoop (compared to 03) and spoiler....


how time changes one's perception...

[sooty]

Peanut Headlight FTW...:D
But for styling....You can't go past an 07 STi tuned liberty...*drools*

[Shaun]

Seen a red one the other day. looks nice.

[Wraith]

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the STi is an amazing feat of engineering..but god damn that thing is ugly, i see no way that ANYONE can find that thing attractive.

PS. They shouldv'e raced it against the Roush Mustang, it's far superior to the Shelby POS

Thanks, I just knew he couldn't adversely criticise the performance prowess of the new Sti :)

As for looks, again it's always a case of each to their own, I like the look of the new Sti, the new Evo is much better though :)

[Wraith]

iI actually like the look of teh New STI.

I'm with you on that one ;)

[corsa2nv]

??? so you'd prefer an engine you have to rev its tits out to get some power it vs a very torque mid range...
the 2.5's drive so much better then the 2L, surley they both get up and go, but town, the 2.5 works so much better, plus a couple of mods on the 2.5 and nothing will beat it

I hope we get the 2.0ltr turbo sti, not the stupid 2.5ltr.

[Wraith]

??? so you'd prefer an engine you have to rev its tits out to get some power it vs a very torque mid range...
the 2.5's drive so much better then the 2L, surley they both get up and go, but town, the 2.5 works so much better, plus a couple of mods on the 2.5 and nothing will beat it

Very good point corsa2nv ;)

But Mr BW hasn't been around for some time now, so I don't think your going to get an answer to the above... :D

[Shaun]

Where is Bornsoft these days???

[Wraith]

Where is Bornsoft these days???

LOL Good question, I've been wondering about that myself lately :confused:

[OPC]

??? plus a couple of mods on the 2.5 and nothing will beat it


NOTHING ???????

are you sure ???

[entice]

the 2.0L responds better to the mods...

And teh development for it is already out there..

unless, of course, you decide to look into a 2.7L JUN engine... that would be nice...

don't expect much change for your coin... wont be cheap

[Wraith]

NOTHING ???????

are you sure ???

I think he meant 'almost' nothing :D

[Wraith]

the 2.0L responds better to the mods...

And teh development for it is already out there..

unless, of course, you decide to look into a 2.7L JUN engine... that would be nice...

don't expect much change for your coin... wont be cheap

You'd know better than most Bill, but isn't there quite alot for the 2.5ltr these days too, in terms of easy and major power upgrades...

I know that it dosn't take very much at all to get a 2.5ltr Sti to do 250kw and over 500nm at all 4 wheels and still be a well behaved everyday ride :)

That JUN 2.7ltr engine sounds like a killer....

[entice]

The issue on the power and response to mods is more about reliability.

The 2.0L can reliably be modded, as it's intrernals are better suited to boost and power increases. the Aus domestic 2.5's arent quite in teh same league. In a month or so I should have teh opportunity to drive a fairly "warm" JDM Spec C, and back to back to an ADM 2.5Sti.

I'm expecting teh 2.0 to be more of a ball tearer track weapon, and teh 2.5 to be more "relaxed"

more on that later...

[Wraith]

The issue on the power and response to mods is more about reliability.

The 2.0L can reliably be modded, as it's intrernals are better suited to boost and power increases. the Aus domestic 2.5's arent quite in teh same league. In a month or so I should have teh opportunity to drive a fairly "warm" JDM Spec C, and back to back to an ADM 2.5Sti.

I'm expecting teh 2.0 to be more of a ball tearer track weapon, and teh 2.5 to be more "relaxed"

more on that later...

Sounds like fun, enjoy it - look forward to your comments :)

[Apex]

Can you get an extract from it and post it up....would be interesting to hear their view :)

DH what did they actually say about the car - we all know it hasn't been the best demographic which purchased these cars in the past ;)


I can’t post up the article but I will say that the STI gets the nod over the EVO, its faster, lighter, steers better, has a front LSD and looks like a special model. I found the new EVO-X plain Jain in the steel. (look out for NZ AutoCar)

Might go see if I can scrounge a test drive of the STI this weekend, they sent me an invite after I registered for info a while back. Well worth registering for info with manufacturers if you like test driving cars!

[Wraith]

I can’t post up the article but I will say that the STI gets the nod over the EVO, its faster, lighter, steers better, has a front LSD and looks like a special model. I found the new EVO-X plain Jain in the steel. (look out for NZ AutoCar)

Might go see if I can scrounge a test drive of the STI this weekend, they sent me an invite after I registered for info a while back. Well worth registering for info with manufacturers if you like test driving cars!

Great result for the Sti - it is all those things over the new Evo, probably why there are already numerous mods to power up the Evo to try and put it back on top in terms of performance... :)

As for looks, the Sti isn't one bit as bad as some people are winging about LOL, if you put it next to all the other hatches out there, AH 5 door, BMW 1 series, Mazda 3, Megane etc.- it holds its own, in fact it looks better than some of those, it's just as practical and blows em all away in performance and as a drivers car ;)

[rusole21]

As for looks, the Sti isn't one bit as bad as some people are winging about LOL, if you put it next to all the other hatches out there, AH 5 door, BMW 1 series, Mazda 3, Megane etc.- it holds its own, in fact it looks better than some of those, it's just as practical and blows em all away in performance and as a drivers car ;)
Looks way better is what you meant!;)

As for the 2.5's, they go great but arent as good as the 207's yet. burn oil abit i have heard.

Check this 06 sti from perth. http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12954

[Wraith]

That's alright, as long as they don't go through oil like a rotary Mazda engine or some of the early production LS1 V8's :)

As for looks, yes alot better than say a Megane :D or 5 door AH :o

*puts on flame suit and backs away into the corner* :D

[rusole21]

As for looks, yes alot better than say a Megane :D or 5 door AH :o

*puts on flame suit and backs away into the corner* :D
Totally agree. Ah is yak! Was reading in motor mag and they described the rear perfectly! Cow hipped. :sick:

[xplosv57]

That's alright, as long as they don't go through oil like a rotary Mazda engine or some of the early production LS1 V8's :)


Thanks Ange for reminding me about both engines flaws, now back to the shop to buy more oil............:D

[dug74]

As for looks, the Sti isn't one bit as bad as some people are winging about LOL, if you put it next to all the other hatches out there, AH 5 door, BMW 1 series, Mazda 3, Megane etc.- it holds its own, in fact it looks better than some of those, it's just as practical and blows em all away in performance and as a drivers car ;)

You would expect it to be better in performance...it has a $20K - $30K premium over most of those cars you mentioned, as for quality....thats another story.

And i wouldnt say it holds it own...its a BMW 1 series/Mazda 3..from the sides...just a tad beefy.

Happy Motoring
duglet

[Calibrated]

Saw a blue STi on sunday going to the spit. looked rather good.

[entice]

I love it when people try to compare the sti's performance to it's lesser siblings, and then bring the price point into consideration... "it's not 20K more performance - spending that 20K on XXXX will make it faster than an STI..."

Heard it many times before, and have also usedit myself in the past...

"why spend 20K more on an STI when a few coins at a WRX will make it just as fast"

I think you cant truly answer that one until you have driven both, or, even owned both.

I have

The STI is far more than just a few bolt ons on a WRX.

It is a far more "solid" car. The drivetrain is in a completely different league.

Take one for a drive, wind it up, and the, just when you think you've run out of room, slam on the brakes... Find yourself a tough corner, turn in late, late and hot.. real late... and mash the accelerator to the floor.

Do this with both cars, and I know which one will leave you in amazement.

I never really knew what an sti could do, even being a subaru devotee, until I drove a Friend's one. I signed up for a brand spanking new one a few days later.. and then found out more and more of what it could do in time. Thats right, what it can rather than cannot do.

Things you should consider:
The gearbox isnt a little featherweight. It's teh real McCoy. When the track racers on forums look for these boxes as a second option to a dog box, then you know you're on a good thing. Take a look and see on teh forums how much the STI boxes go for...
Brakes. Nice Pizza Pan Brembo's. Can do with a little Endless CCX magic, but in "standard trim" are brilliant. Decent pads required for serious track use. Have driven a car with AP racing 6 pots, and then driven a brembo equipped car, and there aint much in it. Brilliant brakes
Front and centre diff. Try the same corner in a non front LSD car (eg, wrx), and then try again, but push even harder, in a front LSD car. It's a drug. You feel that the thing will just drift and then the front squabbles and bites and slingshots you out. Not many owners of these cars get to experience such a beautiful thing, so if you get the chance, try it.

I really do think that it's a car far greater than teh sum of it's parts. My gripe is that Inchcape don't give away performance drve days with the purchase of these cars. Mazda use to give every MX5 purchaser a defensive driving course voucher, and that would make most owners realise what the thing could do, and I think Subaru should be doing the same thing... (except that defensive course would be a bit lame for that car!)

[Wraith]

Thanks Ange for reminding me about both engines flaws, now back to the shop to buy more oil............:D

LOL sorry Steve........ :D

I was one of the lucky ones with my '99 LS1 powered HSV R8,as it had no issues with excessive oil burn or leaks, in fact the whole time I owned it (4 1/2 years) it never needed a top up :)

When I owned mine, I only knew of 2 other guys with oil related probs, one with his '99 HSV Clubsport and the other with an '00 LS1 SS ute...

I believe the later production LS1's and LS2's have no such issues to worry about :)

[Wraith]

I love it when people try to compare the sti's performance to it's lesser siblings, and then bring the price point into consideration... "it's not 20K more performance - spending that 20K on XXXX will make it faster than an STI..."

Heard it many times before, and have also usedit myself in the past...

"why spend 20K more on an STI when a few coins at a WRX will make it just as fast"

I think you cant truly answer that one until you have driven both, or, even owned both.

I have

The STI is far more than just a few bolt ons on a WRX.

It is a far more "solid" car. The drivetrain is in a completely different league.

Take one for a drive, wind it up, and the, just when you think you've run out of room, slam on the brakes... Find yourself a tough corner, turn in late, late and hot.. real late... and mash the accelerator to the floor.

Do this with both cars, and I know which one will leave you in amazement.

I never really knew what an sti could do, even being a subaru devotee, until I drove a Friend's one. I signed up for a brand spanking new one a few days later.. and then found out more and more of what it could do in time. Thats right, what it can rather than cannot do.

Things you should consider:
The gearbox isnt a little featherweight. It's teh real McCoy. When the track racers on forums look for these boxes as a second option to a dog box, then you know you're on a good thing. Take a look and see on teh forums how much the STI boxes go for...
Brakes. Nice Pizza Pan Brembo's. Can do with a little Endless CCX magic, but in "standard trim" are brilliant. Decent pads required for serious track use. Have driven a car with AP racing 6 pots, and then driven a brembo equipped car, and there aint much in it. Brilliant brakes
Front and centre diff. Try the same corner in a non front LSD car (eg, wrx), and then try again, but push even harder, in a front LSD car. It's a drug. You feel that the thing will just drift and then the front squabbles and bites and slingshots you out. Not many owners of these cars get to experience such a beautiful thing, so if you get the chance, try it.

I really do think that it's a car far greater than teh sum of it's parts. My gripe is that Inchcape don't give away performance drve days with the purchase of these cars. Mazda use to give every MX5 purchaser a defensive driving course voucher, and that would make most owners realise what the thing could do, and I think Subaru should be doing the same thing... (except that defensive course would be a bit lame for that car!)

That's a solid eye opening write up.....

If I get an Sti in the future I will want to try out what you've described above, sounds like an awesome bit of driving fun :)

[dug74]

Mazda give defensive driving courses for all performance models in their range.

SP23, MPS3, MPS6, MX-5 and RX-8.

I have already done the defensive driving course back on July 3rd 2007 at willowbank.

They also have a advanced driver course/track work...after you have completed the defensive course. This is all provided by mazda and free of charge.

The good points are...you learn in your own car, on the track and also have lower insurance premiums.

I think most car manufacturers should do it...

Thanks for the insight on the STi...i know where you are coming from....same thing happens with us guy because the MPS 3 is about $15K more than a SP23....people think you can just bolt on a few mods and a turbo to a Mazda SP23 and you instantly have a MPS 3...not the case....so much difference...its unbelievable.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

[entice]

No Sweat,

and I hope you didnt think I was taking a dig at you. I definitely wasn't.
I too use to think the same, esp with my first WRX.. a few bits and pieces and the power was up and I thought I could chew up the STI's. Maybe in a straight line, but in the real world (where there are bumps in the road, corners) and on the track, I know now I wouldn't have stood a chance...

Also, what needs o be considered.. is that 6 letter word....

RESALE

[xplosv57]

LOL sorry Steve........ :D

I was one of the lucky ones with my '99 LS1 powered HSV R8,as it had no issues with excessive oil burn or leaks, in fact the whole time I owned it (4 1/2 years) it never needed a top up :)

When I owned mine, I only knew of 2 other guys with oil related probs, one with his '99 HSV Clubsport and the other with an '00 LS1 SS ute...

I believe the later production LS1's and LS2's have no such issues to worry about :)

Haha yeah mine is an '01 production and i believe has a problem but because it's serviced every 5000km, i don't really worry about it!!! My older rotaries use to burn the stuff though, 5000km intervals weren't enough!!!!

Anyways back on topic lol..........

[Charlatan]

Mazda give defensive driving courses for all performance models in their range.

SP23, MPS3, MPS6, MX-5 and RX-8.

I have already done the defensive driving course back on July 3rd 2007 at willowbank.

They also have a advanced driver course/track work...after you have completed the defensive course. This is all provided by mazda and free of charge.

The good points are...you learn in your own car, on the track and also have lower insurance premiums.

I think most car manufacturers should do it...

Thanks for the insight on the STi...i know where you are coming from....same thing happens with us guy because the MPS 3 is about $15K more than a SP23....people think you can just bolt on a few mods and a turbo to a Mazda SP23 and you instantly have a MPS 3...not the case....so much difference...its unbelievable.

Happy Motoring
DUG74


Hey Dug. Is this still the case with new Mazda's?

And in regards to bolt-ons v. factory engineering, is there really any comparison?

[dug74]

Hey Dug. Is this still the case with new Mazda's?

And in regards to bolt-ons v. factory engineering, is there really any comparison?

From what I know...its still the case...there are a few Mazda Track days held by mazda scheduled for Feb and March.

Mazda send you all the information when they book you in.

Usually 25 cars each over 2 days...

If you require any more information....I can gladly assist you.

Bolt ons Vs Factory Eng....there is a comparison...like said...you can probably get the bolt on with more power etc...get to the bends or track and its a whole different ball game.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

[cbrmale]

I've never been a fan of Subarus, they seem overrated to me. The WRX is fast in a straight line but it doesn't handle particularly well, the four-wheel-drive seems wasted. I know they power-understeer, and today I witnessed it first hand. Typical big-diameter Canberra roundabout, two lanes going in and out, spreading to four lanes in the centre. Guy in a WRX following me too close and I'm not in a hurry so I ease my car around the outside line driving quite conservatively to give him room to pass me on the inside.

And oh my God, the poor Subaru! It was screaming the tyres and I looked across and saw it sliding and I thought to myself that it's a lot quicker in a straight line than my SRi, but it sure don't handle! I'm cruising gently and he's out of control!

And I know they ride like a wheelbarrow full of bricks, so the ride / handling compromise is pretty shabby.

[blueraven]

official price has been announced at 59 990 for the sti, and 64990 for the spec r.

that is all...

[Vectracious]

I've never been a fan of Subarus, they seem overrated to me. The WRX is fast in a straight line but it doesn't handle particularly well, the four-wheel-drive seems wasted. I know they power-understeer, and today I witnessed it first hand. Typical big-diameter Canberra roundabout, two lanes going in and out, spreading to four lanes in the centre. Guy in a WRX following me too close and I'm not in a hurry so I ease my car around the outside line driving quite conservatively to give him room to pass me on the inside.

And oh my God, the poor Subaru! It was screaming the tyres and I looked across and saw it sliding and I thought to myself that it's a lot quicker in a straight line than my SRi, but it sure don't handle! I'm cruising gently and he's out of control!

And I know they ride like a wheelbarrow full of bricks, so the ride / handling compromise is pretty shabby.

Have you driven one? Jeremy Clarkson made a VXR Astra and Vectra power understeer as well - therefore, Astra's and Vectra's can't handle either...... :cool: :rolleyes:

[MatsHolden]

I've never been a fan of Subarus, they seem overrated to me. The WRX is fast in a straight line but it doesn't handle particularly well, the four-wheel-drive seems wasted. I know they power-understeer, and today I witnessed it first hand. Typical big-diameter Canberra roundabout, two lanes going in and out, spreading to four lanes in the centre. Guy in a WRX following me too close and I'm not in a hurry so I ease my car around the outside line driving quite conservatively to give him room to pass me on the inside.

And oh my God, the poor Subaru! It was screaming the tyres and I looked across and saw it sliding and I thought to myself that it's a lot quicker in a straight line than my SRi, but it sure don't handle! I'm cruising gently and he's out of control!

And I know they ride like a wheelbarrow full of bricks, so the ride / handling compromise is pretty shabby.

You could make your Astra understeer like a pig too. It's just how you drive them. Having been in a WRX around the track, they do handle. And then there's the wet... amazing.

[Wraith]

I've never been a fan of Subarus, they seem overrated to me. The WRX is fast in a straight line but it doesn't handle particularly well, the four-wheel-drive seems wasted. I know they power-understeer, and today I witnessed it first hand. Typical big-diameter Canberra roundabout, two lanes going in and out, spreading to four lanes in the centre. Guy in a WRX following me too close and I'm not in a hurry so I ease my car around the outside line driving quite conservatively to give him room to pass me on the inside.

And oh my God, the poor Subaru! It was screaming the tyres and I looked across and saw it sliding and I thought to myself that it's a lot quicker in a straight line than my SRi, but it sure don't handle! I'm cruising gently and he's out of control!

And I know they ride like a wheelbarrow full of bricks, so the ride / handling compromise is pretty shabby.

:confused:

That's the 1st ever such report I've ever read from anybody regarding a wrx's handling ???

I'd say the wrx driver in question didn't know what he was doing ???

As asked above - have you ever driven one or at least rode shotgun with someone who does know how to drive one properly ??? I dare say, your opinion will be quickly changed and it'll be your Sri that'll seem totally mediocre by comparison...

[Wraith]

official price has been announced at 59 990 for the sti, and 64990 for the spec r.

that is all...

That's just what I expected......ie: similar price range to the Evo 10

Damn, if only the spec r was at 59,990 and the base model Sti at 54-55,000 :(

[entice]

There's no way that my Astra SRI was as good at roadholding as my STI, or even as my 97 WRX (with anti-lift kit). No chance.

remember the power he must have been (trying) to put down as he was doing it... I'd imagine much more than 110Kw ATFW.

My SRI with 110ATFW power didnt hold aswell as my 200 at all 4 Wheels (not flywheel) STI did... No chance.

[OPC]

made a new WRX look silly tonight and the guy stayed behind me for the rest of the journey... ill leave it at that

[Vectracious]

made a new WRX look silly tonight and the guy stayed behind me for the rest of the journey... ill leave it at that

not surprised if it was an 08.

[Wraith]

made a new WRX look silly tonight and the guy stayed behind me for the rest of the journey... ill leave it at that

Not surprised if the guy in the Wrx didn't know how to get the best out of it...

Even the new 08's are plenty fast :)

I read somewhere else a little while back you made an MPS 3 look bad too...

Is your VXR stock ??? that's the question...

'Stock vs stock' with equally competent drivers behind the wheel, I'd choose an MPS 3 or new Wrx over a VXR for a drag ;)

Once you start modding though, it's anyones game...

[OPC]

Not surprised if the guy in the Wrx didn't know how to get the best out of it...

Even the new 08's are plenty fast :)

I read somewhere else a little while back you made an MPS 3 look bad too...

Is your VXR stock ??? that's the question...

'Stock vs stock' with equally competent drivers behind the wheel, I'd choose an MPS 3 or new Wrx over a VXR for a drag ;)

Once you start modding though, it's anyones game...

yes its stock

the MPS3 didn't attempt to pass me and backed off

the 08 WRX had a car headstart and i reeled him in

[Wraith]

yes its stock

the MPS3 didn't attempt to pass me and backed off

the 08 WRX had a car headstart and i reeled him in

In that case I'd say your the better if not the much more aggressive driver of those encounters :D

Well done on your victories :)

[OPC]

In that case I'd say your the better if not the much more aggressive driver of those encounters :D

:)

yes id say i was aggressive :)

[dug74]

I have had the same sorta scenarios.

I have raced a new 08 WRX.... it was close...but I was easy a 1/2 car in front.

I have also raced a VXR....and again..I was about a 1/2 car in front.

Im not saying my car is better....just straight line...its hard to beat *stock Vs stock*... if the person knows how to drive and launch a MPS3.

Well done mohawk....and the guy was idiot anyways...becoz I have found...the car gets better with age...opens up more after 5K and then 10K.

And many ppl do underestimate the VXR....its a high performance car and should have credit...yet everyone also goes on about WRX and MPS3.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

[blueraven]

are we forgetting the fact both of your cars have more power than a stock wrx?

[CNBLU]

what car do you drive dug?

[btm]

what car do you drive dug?

Drives:'07 Mazda 3 MPS
Colour:Aurora Blue

[Vectracious]

are we forgetting the fact both of your cars have more power than a stock wrx?

exactly - stock wrx's are quick because they get off line quickly - once they are rolling, you would only expect a 3MPS/VXR would be quicker.

I'll be the first to admit, mine starts running out of breath at about 100km/h and acceleration is definately not as rapid after that - I remember on a cruise - there were some stock Astra G's (Gav had just picked his up) - and at higher speeds, I expected to be catching up to them - simply because of the fact I have another 20kW on them - but I couldn't - the 4WD as good as it is, sucks a lot of power and that extra 20kW in the end means nothing. (and the only modification mine has is a less restrictive rear muffler - which really is just noise - hardly a worthwhile mod worth mentioning)

[aza28]

Sat in both the Sti and Spec-r at the Brisbane Motor show. If you've got $60K to throw at an STI I would strongly advise you find another $5K and get the spec -r. Without driving either, and purely on looks and interior, the spec -r is miles better. The seats in the STI were honestly the worst seats of any performance 4 clyinder car I had ever sat in... the new mazda 2's had beta seats.

But otherwise love the quad exhausts and the beefy guards

[Wraith]

Sat in both the Sti and Spec-r at the Brisbane Motor show. If you've got $60K to throw at an STI I would strongly advise you find another $5K and get the spec -r. Without driving either, and purely on looks and interior, the spec -r is miles better. The seats in the STI were honestly the worst seats of any performance 4 clyinder car I had ever sat in... the new mazda 2's had beta seats.

But otherwise love the quad exhausts and the beefy guards

Sounds like they've set it up that way, so that people will go the extra 5k...

BlueRavens seen the car too and he said the same thing...

It's a shame regarding the standard seats, as that's something I've heard from numerous previous Sti owners, that the standard seats are rat shit...

Only seen pics myself so far of the spec R interior and it looks the business :)

[cbrmale]

:confused:

That's the 1st ever such report I've ever read from anybody regarding a wrx's handling ???

I'd say the wrx driver in question didn't know what he was doing ???

As asked above - have you ever driven one or at least rode shotgun with someone who does know how to drive one properly ??? I dare say, your opinion will be quickly changed and it'll be your Sri that'll seem totally mediocre by comparison...

The WRX driver was going around a smooth large-diameter, even-radius roundabout, as was I in the Astra. This is not a demanding curve, especially as I was just cruising.

My general manager (who has an Audi A4) drove a WRX, and he described the power-understeer I saw. I've been in a WRX, and I know what he's talking about. This is how I also describe the 'riding like a wheelbarrow full of bricks'.

There's no way that a WRX can stay with my AH SRi on the curves, not at all (pas de tout), except that my 110kw is severly lacking for squirt between the bends.

But there is more to a car than than hard acceleration, and for ride / handling compromise, the Europeans have forgotten more than most Japanese have learned.

[xplosv57]

There's no way that a WRX can stay with my AH SRi on the curves, not at all (pas de tout), except that my 110kw is severly lacking for squirt between the bends.



I've been in a WRX around some big and small bends with a forum member (you know who you are) and i really find that hard to believe that a standard Astra is quicker round bends, maybe with some serious suspension mods but not stock!!!

[lampshade]

There's no way that a WRX can stay with my AH SRi on the curves, not at all (pas de tout)


The AH is a good car m8 but your stretching it with a claim like that. (unless you are "The Stig" lol)

[MatsHolden]

Yeh, again I think it's the drivers you've seen/driven with. I love the Astras and would buy an SRi Turbo over a Rex, but the Rex will still be better around corners, unless you drive it like a goose.

[Vectracious]

:clap: Congratulations on what has to be the most ridiculously biased, arse blowing post I've read on these forums in a long time!!!!! If you were any more blinkered, you'd be a friggin indicator!


The WRX driver was going around a smooth large-diameter, even-radius roundabout, as was I in the Astra. This is not a demanding curve, especially as I was just cruising.

You're just cruising, the WRX driver was pushing hard - so how does that make your car better - how fast was he going? Did you try and keep up? If his Rex was "all over the place" as you described it, he would have been going at a fair pace - your Astra would have fared a lot worse....


My general manager (who has an Audi A4) drove a WRX, and he described the power-understeer I saw. I've been in a WRX, and I know what he's talking about. This is how I also describe the 'riding like a wheelbarrow full of bricks'.

your general manager is an idiot - Audi who sticks their engines in the front overhang and redefined the term "understeer" from all that weight hanging over the nose understeer less than a WRX? All mainstream car manufacturers will dial understeer into any of their cars - it makes them safer - they'd rather have numpties like your general manager getting into understeer rather than oversteer.
Power undesteer is bullshit anyway - its easy to induce - just search for Jeremy Clarkson and VXR on Youtube - its been discussed on this forum many times - of course didn't see you coming on and bagging the "amazing" Astra in that instance.... :rolleyes:

As for barrow full of bricks ride - its a "Sports car". If you want comfort and a smooth ride, buy a luxo barge then.


There's no way that a WRX can stay with my AH SRi on the curves, not at all (pas de tout), except that my 110kw is severly lacking for squirt between the bends.

This is the funniest paragraph of all - a WRX cannot stay with your SRi???? You say you've been in a passenger in a WRX... well the driver could not drive. Simple. Unlike your oh so wise self (nice French by the way :rolleyes: ) - I've driven an AH SRiT back to back with my WRX - the AH was fantastic - great handling for a FWD - but no way no a stock SRiT is going to outhandle a stock WRX. A point to note is on this particular occasion, the SRiT had near new Dunlops, my car had very second hand Potenzas - Mat and Pauly can attest to this, and on my shithouse worn out rubber the Rex was still bighting with none of this so called power understeer - again - Pauly and Mat can verify this - I've even got video!


But there is more to a car than than hard acceleration, and for ride / handling compromise, the Europeans have forgotten more than most Japanese have learned.

You;re one of those people who thinks just because its from Europe its automatically the best - don't worry, I used to be like that too - until I actually looked at what Jap manufacturers have done. Europe make great handling cars - no doubt about it - my old Vectra was a gem - I've driven many different BMW's - most were brilliant - but to say the Japs know nothing is just plain moronic. Look at the 70's Datsun's - how many rallies did they win, the AE86, in the early 80's, not to mention later stuff like Skylines, Evo's and yes even those crap WRX's.

I love my Opels, and I love Euro cars - it's why I'm still on this forum - and as I've said before on this forum, if they made the SRiT in a 4 door, I'd have one now. I didn't want to get the 2.2 SRi cos I actually wanted something to be significantly faster than my wife's Astra G 1.8 - but farking hell - open up your eyes and have a look around - your SRi is not the be all and end all of motor cars - honestly, you sound like you're obsessed - there's a whole lot of other cars out there - go out and enjoy them for f*cks sake...

[/rant]

[Vectracious]

I've been in a WRX around some big and small bends with a forum member (you know who you are) and i really find that hard to believe that a standard Astra is quicker round bends, maybe with some serious suspension mods but not stock!!!

;)

wasn't even on the limit either.

[xplosv57]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[entice]

I think this thread should now be locked....

I've owned both a 97 WRX, an 03 STi, and an 07 SRI

I agree with the "observations" that Vectracious makes, all except one. More on that later.

The 07 SRI is definitely a nice package. actually a nice little handler.

My '75 124 Sport is also a great go-kart handler... not too fond of the big bumps though, but then again, the Sri doesnt like mid corner upsets either.

The sri had no chance of keeping up with my 97 wrx.. no chance..

but then again, the 97 wrx probably couldnt hold teh twisties with as much aplomb as my 99 mx5.

But, make no mistake, not much could keep up with my 03 sti.. not much at all. the 02 Audi S4 struggled to match my 97 WRX (which admittedly was not standard).

The bit where I disagree with Vectracious is teh comparison of the sri (2.2) vs the 1.8L. On paper the difference may not seem as much, but there is a far greater wad of torque (as i imagine teh CDTi would be even more so).

But even so, it's really hard to lose the wrx around a corner.. unless you are definitely trying to do so, or, have a death wish.

[Vectracious]

The bit where I disagree with Vectracious is teh comparison of the sri (2.2) vs the 1.8L. On paper the difference may not seem as much, but there is a far greater wad of torque (as i imagine teh CDTi would be even more so).

I said significantly faster. 1-1.5 seconds is not really that significant. If I'm going to spend an extra however many thousands on an Astra - I wouldn't spend it on some wheels and body kit and and extra 400cc - I'd go for the Diesel and put a Greenbox in.

And I'm not going to lock the thread - the wise one has an opportunity for rebuttal - and even if I did lock it, I would probably be accused of abusing my admin permissions to have the last say.

[blueraven]

There's no way that a WRX can stay with my AH SRi on the curves...


No of course not, he would be pulling away quite rapidly i would imagine.

I cant really believe its even being compared lol....

We are (opel club) the first to praise and cheer about how good and underrated our cars are...but please, put down the crack pipe.

If you want more proof just look at the wakefeild park times tested by MOTOR or WHEELS magazine each year for their annual bang for buck or best car awards. closest they ever came was about a second behind the wrx for the TS model turbo(which won best bang for buck that year)...current versions there is more thna a 2 second gap if i recall correctly. Thats for the turbo pal, with 37 extra killowatts, not the 2.2sri version....(do i need to point out that the turbo has uprated brakes and suspension over the 2.2 sri thus it would outhandle it too?)

[MatsHolden]

The one that sticks in my mind Pete was the cruise down to Inverloch in that PISSING rain. Through the round about at the turn off to Phillip Island, you came flying past me into the roundabout and I thought shit you're gone, but the way it gripped up... whoa.

[blueraven]

The one that sticks in my mind Pete was the cruise down to Inverloch in that PISSING rain. Through the round about at the turn off to Phillip Island, you came flying past me into the roundabout and I thought shit you're gone, but the way it gripped up... whoa.

i went on an opel cruise in Bassula's calibra turbo awd...we hammered it round a corner only to see the road was covered in water from a burst retic pipe..i thought to myself ok we are gone, but awd is king, i doubt i would have made it in my car.

[CNBLU]

:clap: I didn't want to get the 2.2 SRi cos I actually wanted something to be significantly faster than my wife's Astra G 1.8 - but farking hell - open up your eyes and have a look around - your SRi is not the be all and end all of motor cars - honestly, you sound like you're obsessed - there's a whole lot of other cars out there - go out and enjoy them for f*cks sake...

[/rant]

Rofl:D

He does sound like the ambassador of the 2.2ltr:boohoo:

[Apex]

The thing that gets to me is how people confuse grip with handling! I wouldn’t say that the stock WRX is any better than my SRI, it installs a lot more confidence than the Astra but I wouldn’t say it handles better! The STI is another story it has soft sports tires a trick diff and very nice (hard) dampers, through all that at an Astra and you’d have a nice handling car
After driving a few STI’s from all generations I must say I like the handling of the version 3-ra the most as it was more inclined to over steer and seems to communicate a lot better. I don’t rate the STI or Evo as anything more that a focused weapon, they get the job done with minimal emotional involvement.

[Vectracious]

The thing that gets to me is how people confuse grip with handling! I wouldn’t say that the stock WRX is any better than my SRI, it installs a lot more confidence than the Astra but I wouldn’t say it handles better!

You have a H&R lowering kit.

Therefore your car is not stock.

Therefore your argument of a stock WRX not being better than your SRi is pointless.

:cool:

[Apex]

Believe it or not my Astra didn’t come with the H&R springs fitted so I know how it handled stock, lowering springs don’t make a dramatic change in the way a car handles anyway.

This is an OPEL forum therefore you are going to get enthusiasts like myself defending their pride and joy. The Impreza is a tool to go fast for bugger all money and on paper they are great cars but IMHO they are overrated cheap cars designed for the fully sick club..

[blueraven]

[SIZE=3]I know how it handled stock, lowering springs don’t make a dramatic change in the way a car handles anyway.

SIZE]


Then what ever springs you have are clearly not much better than stock. The eibachs on mine made a VERY noticable difference.

lowering a cars centre of gravity can make or break the handling, manufacturer's do all sorts of crap to play with it to improve handling, such as aluminium roof on some audi/bmw/evo's to save about ~8kg and lower the c.o.g 0.5cm..they dont do it for no reason.

likewise go too low and it will be worse.

[PaulyJ]

Believe it or not my Astra didn’t come with the H&R springs fitted so I know how it handled stock, lowering springs don’t make a dramatic change in the way a car handles anyway.

This is an OPEL forum therefore you are going to get enthusiasts like myself defending their pride and joy. The Impreza is a tool to go fast for bugger all money and on paper they are great cars but IMHO they are overrated cheap cars designed for the fully sick club..


Hang on hang on, hold your horses here mate.
Pete's been a part of OA pretty much since the beginning. Hence why he's Admin. I'm pretty sure he is aware that this is an OPEL club, having owned one in the past.

I stand by Pete and agree with him when he says:

"You have a H&R lowering kit.

Therefore your car is not stock.

Therefore your argument of a stock WRX not being better than your SRi is pointless."

Stock car = nothing done to it. nothing after market.
Yours is not stock, and therfore cant be compared to a stock WRX.

Each car reacts differently with lowered springs. You may have not noticed much of a difference with yours. I can say when I put my springs in, it was a different car completely. i'm sure other here can vouch for that.

[Apex]

I don’t care if Pete used to own 50 Opel’s I wasn’t having a dig at him, just WRX’s. I have driven one and was giving my opinion (what forums are about), this is an Opel Forum so shoot me for standing up for the Astra.

Im not going to argue the spring thing, I’ll let you guys think they do what you say they do. It’s good for sales.

[Vectracious]

This is an OPEL forum therefore you are going to get enthusiasts like myself defending their pride and joy. The Impreza is a tool to go fast for bugger all money and on paper they are great cars but IMHO they are overrated cheap cars designed for the fully sick club..



HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA... look it's another one :rolleyes:

See I wouldn't call you an enthusiast - an enthusiast is someone like blueraven - takes an objective look at things - comments on the facts, can admit when theres something better than what he owns.

You (and cbrmale for that matter) are nothing but fanboys. The Astra is the best and thats that - and no one can convince you otherwise. The world will not end because something is better than your car.... just deal with it.

The Rex has its faults - look, I'll do it now - crap gearbox, excessive dive under brakes, 1980's interior, lack of rear leg room, small boot. What impressed me with the SRiT I drove was its refinement, great gear shift, looks and the interior. Do I sit there and cry about why the Rex doesn't have that?

Anyway, this has got way off topic. Pauly, do with it what you wish.

[GreyRex]

Go Pete!! lol i love where this thread has gone. All I can say is... the benefits of all wheel drive (and yes i have driven a WRX and a 6 MPS, with their different styles of all wheel drive) mean it's a combo not too many Astra can keep up with. OF COURSE there'll be exceptions... but as others have said, Let's call a spade a spade!!:) :) :)

[PaulyJ]

Im not going to argue the spring thing, I’ll let you guys think they do what you say they do. It’s good for sales.

WTF?
Think they do what we say they do? Good for sales?
Fark mate I think you have a serious case of 'fanboy' here! I'm certainly not imagining that my car handles and drives differently with my aftermarket springs.

Good for sales? I'm not even going to bother with this...

Fark close-minded people shit me!

[Apex]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA... look it's another one :rolleyes:

See I wouldn't call you an enthusiast - an enthusiast is someone like blueraven - takes an objective look at things - comments on the facts, can admit when theres something better than what he owns.

You (and cbrmale for that matter) are nothing but fanboys. The Astra is the best and thats that - and no one can convince you otherwise. The world will not end because something is better than your car.... just deal with it.

The Rex has its faults - look, I'll do it now - crap gearbox, excessive dive under brakes, 1980's interior, lack of rear leg room, small boot. What impressed me with the SRiT I drove was its refinement, great gear shift, looks and the interior. Do I sit there and cry about why the Rex doesn't have that?

Anyway, this has got way off topic. Pauly, do with it what you wish.

Im glad you found my opinion entertaining, but I can’t see why you take it personally?? You don’t even own a current WRX? What’s better is a matter of personal opinion, and I have said that I think the MK5 Astra is better than the new WRX. I am a car enthusiast above all and have expressed my opinion on the new WRX, I have owned ad driven a plethora of vehicles from various manufacturers and can assure you im not a brand specific fan boy.
The Astra will be traded next year and im looking at replacements as they come out, the current STI is one of them and as so as the second shipment arrives I will take one for a drive and base my opinion on that, in the mean time I can tell you that it’s a stonking looking car with a true menacing as a bull dog look reminiscent of the early 90’s Lancia Delta HF Integralle (s) EVO.

[blueraven]

WTF?
Fark close-minded people shit me!

Story of my life.

[off topic]
I have travelled the world, lived in many countries, worked in heaps of different roles and experienced things which many people cant believe or comprehend. You would not believe how many times people have called me a lair/idoit when i have told them things i have done in my own experience, or try and instruct them how to do something in a way better than they are...

I am not saying i know everything, far from it, i know jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

I have ended up in a heated argument before with someone who could not be convinced the the sun was bigger than the moon. I have had to argue that the moons gravity causes the tides(they were trying to tell me it was evaporation and then rain filling back up the ocean...)

Seriously...

People with closed minds are the reason we have wars.
[/off topic]
[on topic]

New sti is growing on me...

[Wraith]

Then what ever springs you have are clearly not much better than stock. The eibachs on mine made a VERY noticable difference.

lowering a cars centre of gravity can make or break the handling, manufacturer's do all sorts of crap to play with it to improve handling, such as aluminium roof on some audi/bmw/evo's to save about ~8kg and lower the c.o.g 0.5cm..they dont do it for no reason.

likewise go too low and it will be worse.

Agree with the above, both on my Astra convertible and Calibra, the addition of Eibach springs has made a very noticeable difference to handling and on my Calibra, the ride comfort has also improved !!!

Whether you fit a set of good or bad aftermarket springs and or shocks you'll notice a difference one way or the other....I done this to sooo many cars, the same case for all !!!

[Wraith]

Story of my life.

[off topic]
I have travelled the world, lived in many countries, worked in heaps of different roles and experienced things which many people cant believe or comprehend. You would not believe how many times people have called me a lair/idoit when i have told them things i have done in my own experience, or try and instruct them how to do something in a way better than they are...

I am not saying i know everything, far from it, i know jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

I have ended up in a heated argument before with someone who could not be convinced the the sun was bigger than the moon. I have had to argue that the moons gravity causes the tides(they were trying to tell me it was evaporation and then rain filling back up the ocean...)

Seriously...

People with closed minds are the reason we have wars.
[/off topic]
[on topic]

New sti is growing on me...

+1

Last line regarding 'closed or narrow minded' people is so true !

Oh the new Sti is growing on me too :)

[rusole21]

Hahahahha well well. That was excellent! Cbrmale your a funny one. If you get the oportunity to drive a wrx then please do so. If you are able to give it some stick i assure you it will not give in before you!

[Apex]

Agree with the above, both on my Astra convertible and Calibra, the addition of Eibach springs has made a very noticeable difference to handling and on my Calibra, the ride comfort has also improved !!!

Whether you fit a set of good or bad aftermarket springs and or shocks you'll notice a difference one way or the other....I done this to sooo many cars, the same case for all !!!

They work well for me on a track or a very smooth road but by fitting them all I have essentially done is shortened the shock travel and intern made the shocks work over time to level out bumps not to mention the change in over all geometry. It looks cool though!

[entice]

not necessarily true...

you've also altered the rebound speed, and cycle.. (not necessarily the damping rate as you retained standard dampers)

this makes a big difference to cornering, slalom, and midcorner nasties...

[Apex]

not necessarily true...

you've also altered the rebound speed, and cycle.. (not necessarily the damping rate as you retained standard dampers)

this makes a big difference to cornering, slalom, and midcorner nasties...

That’s what I was trying to say when I said dampers working overtime ,meaning they are not made for lowering springs, the damping rate is controlled threw the IDS so maybe this is the reason the car handles only marginally better than stock? Coilovers or a matched spring and shock combo (as I have done with my other car) would be the ultimate solution.

Would you say lowering springs alone would positively change the way a car handles overall, or would you say its case specific? I would say they would they would make a more dramatic difference on a car like Pauls 1.4 Barina than say a BMW M3.

[entice]

if you have the time, try:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

it's an education.

[Geebs]

The AH is a good car m8 but your stretching it with a claim like that. (unless you are "The Stig" lol)

I have just seen this post. I also think to say an AH Astra handles better than a rexxie is ludicrous. I have owned both and based on stock, I think one must have rocks in their head to think the AH is a better handler than a rexxie.

[Apex]

if you have the time, try:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

it's an education.

Wow that’s heavy! Cheers for the link. Will have a read when I get to work on Monday :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by btm http://www.opelaus.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.opelaus.com/forum/showthread.php?p=286347#post286347)
i like cake

cake is heaps better than lamb

Cakes good but my lamb is better… but im a lambfanboy haha.

[blueraven]

Would you say lowering springs alone would positively change the way a car handles overall, or would you say its case specific? I would say they would they would make a more dramatic difference on a car like Pauls 1.4 Barina than say a BMW M3.


You keep saying lowering springs, i would say there are a few types of spring. Lowering springs as you say, i put in the category 'all show no go'...like king springs..

performance or sport springs may be lower, but lower is not all they do. Spring technology can be alot more high tech than most people think, especially when you start looking at progressive rate springs, hot vs cold wound etc etc.

so i sort of agree with you, but disagree at the same time. Oh and obviously a car that handles well to begin with(m3) wont gain much from a better set of springs, but if they are avg (like a barina) then the difference will be significant....

[entice]

No probs.

The read on FWD setups is real interesting...

[Vectra V6]

Had I known the direction of this thread, I would have contributed earlier and put it to bed.... I own a VXR and my work mate has had his 08 wrx delivered several weeks back. We took it to camelia for a few test runs and let me just say the handling is much better than the vxr.... i mean i felt safe accelerating round bends when i would be hesitant with the vxr... having little knowledge of cars the difference was noticable and the noise was brillant....other than the performance of it, everything else to the design and quality of finishes is a major dissapointment... this is where an astra fairs better... However in a straight line the vxr pulls ahead from second to third and has a better 0-100 time..... my best was 6.7 secs whilst the wrx best was 7.1... and yes my vxr is stock... but to say the astra handles better is a joke, around a track i think the wrx would conquer....

[OPC]

is poopoo one word or two ?

ok thread locked now you squabling biatches ;)

just kidding, i dont have the power :(

[Wraith]

You keep saying lowering springs, i would say there are a few types of spring. Lowering springs as you say, i put in the category 'all show no go'...like king springs..

performance or sport springs may be lower, but lower is not all they do. Spring technology can be alot more high tech than most people think, especially when you start looking at progressive rate springs, hot vs cold wound etc etc.

so i sort of agree with you, but disagree at the same time. Oh and obviously a car that handles well to begin with(m3) wont gain much from a better set of springs, but if they are avg (like a barina) then the difference will be significant....

+1

Read and understand this mans posts people regarding springs/suspension, he's bang on the money with what he's saying ;)

[Wraith]

Had I known the direction of this thread, I would have contributed earlier and put it to bed.... I own a VXR and my work mate has had his 08 wrx delivered several weeks back. We took it to camelia for a few test runs and let me just say the handling is much better than the vxr.... i mean i felt safe accelerating round bends when i would be hesitant with the vxr... having little knowledge of cars the difference was noticable and the noise was brillant....other than the performance of it, everything else to the design and quality of finishes is a major dissapointment... this is where an astra fairs better... However in a straight line the vxr pulls ahead from second to third and has a better 0-100 time..... my best was 6.7 secs whilst the wrx best was 7.1... and yes my vxr is stock... but to say the astra handles better is a joke, around a track i think the wrx would conquer....

I think this post along with what Vectracious, Entice, Geebs and Lampshade have said put to bed the arguement or differences and which is better on VXR vs WRX handling !!!

If someone still thinks otherwise, they're a real knuckle head !!!

BTW this thread is meant to be for the new Sti - I don't think it's handling will be put 2nd rate to any Astra anytime soon...

[Wraith]

if you have the time, try:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

it's an education.

Great info link Bill, thanks for sharing, I'll have to take some time out to thoroughly read it :)

[entice]

No sweat.
It's got some real indepth stuff about dampeners, and stuff people will not want to believe (re Tein etc). But, at least the comments are backed by science.

The tyre (tire) bits are actually quite interesting

Oh, and yeah, I like teh new Sti.. saw a silver Impreza R S on the road last night, and can say it sat rather well. I no longer mind that there is no sedan....

[Vectracious]

Oh, and yeah, I like teh new Sti.. saw a silver Impreza R S on the road last night, and can say it sat rather well. I no longer mind that there is no sedan....

It's coz the sedan looks like some sort of mini previous model Camry. I think we'll still get it in Australia later this yea

[cbrmale]

I puzzled (or upset) a few WRX fans with my comments, so lets set the record straight. First up, I wouldn't by a WRX in a million years, because it is impractical as day-to-day transport. I bought my SRi 2.2 because I wanted a practical car with better handling than what I'd been prevously used to, and it was roomier and a few thousand cheaper than a Mazda 3 2.3. Also the SRi hatch looks quite distinctive: it sits lower and the body kit makes it look lower still. So I could have bought a Japanese car (albeit a European-designed one), but I didn't.

Now get back to the roundabout in question. I was cruising, I gave the WRX room to get past, and he was squealing tyres, I think the WRX was understeering.

Now as to my car, one of the characterics I've noticed with the SRi is the more I plant it before the apex of a curve, the more grip I get. It's a very easy car to drive fast, because if you drive it properly it points very well. I did all my early driving on motorcycles, which always have grip at the front and always power-oversteer close to the limit. Ergo, my driving style is that I get freaked out by anything that understeers, I cannot drive with confidence if I dont have front-end grip. This is where the Astra suits me, because the harder I drive it, the more front-end grip I get. And the torquey 2.2 suits this driving style, because even at low revs it has strong pick up. The one thing that makes me wary about the Astra is that it's clear it will oversteer on the limit, and if I was to overdo the ESP it would oversteer in a BIG way.

So back to the hysteria. I am not obsessed with European cars, I just happened to buy one because the size, price, performance and driveability of a particular model suited me at the time. I am not obsessed about Astras, I test-drove an Astra diesel and hated it, but the more I drove the SRi after I took delivery of it, the more it impressed me. Now, after 10,000km, it impresses me a lot. Probably because it matches my motorcycle-derived driving style with lots of front-end grip (if you drive it right). Those of you who have driven cars all your lives will have a different perspective on handling than me, and most of you will tolerate understeer more.

And for those who don't know, the SRi 2.2 has the same brakes and equivalent suspension settings to the SRi turbo (although not the same suspension outright because the engine weights of the two models are different). But it has equivalent suspension: lowered and firmer. And brakes too: until you get used to it, it's a pig to bring to a smooth stop at low speeds.

[blueraven]

because the harder I drive it, the more front-end grip I get.

...you live on an interesting planet, or dont drive very hard at all (or your version of driving hard vs my version of driving hard is very different).

[OPC]

...you live on an interesting planet, .


same planet as roger cordia

[dug74]

Well...i will answer this...as I have one of those 2.3L Mazda 3 you question..

I can tell you now...even its lower and firmer susp...you obviously are not driving hard enough.

I even know that I would have trouble beating a WRX around the roundabout you speak.

And I know also know...that my car would kick your arse around the roundabout.

So...in true IQ test style...

If the WRX can beat the Mazda 3, and the Mazda 3 can beat the SRi Astra.

What does this tell you about the SRi Astra handling abilities???

Happy Motoring
DUG74

[MasterSti]

You have to be kidding about a SRi Astra beind a better handling car than a WRX.

I currently own a standard AH SRi Turbo and compared to my old MY02 WRX it is not in the same league! Even with the sport button (stiffer suspension) on.

Mine you I love my SRi Turbo's style and reasonably good straight line performance.

I miss the WRX's AWD handling & much less understeer than my current Sri.....

[lampshade]

Mine you I love my SRi Turbo's style and reasonably good straight line performance.

I miss the WRX's AWD handling & much less understeer than my current Sri.....

Slightly off topic..... from a rolling start how do you think your Sri turbo would go against your WRX:confused: (from a rolling start of around 30+kph)

[Vectracious]

Slightly off topic..... from a rolling start how do you think your Sti turbo would go against your WRX:confused: (from a rolling start of around 30+kph)

Rolling start, an SRiT and a WRX (2.0) would be about the same, and the SRiT seems to have the advantage at higher speeds - eg > 150km/h (less powertrain loss)

Dunno what the 2.5's are like with the higher torque.

[cbrmale]

Well...i will answer this...as I have one of those 2.3L Mazda 3 you question..

I can tell you now...even its lower and firmer susp...you obviously are not driving hard enough.

I even know that I would have trouble beating a WRX around the roundabout you speak.

And I know also know...that my car would kick your arse around the roundabout.

So...in true IQ test style...

If the WRX can beat the Mazda 3, and the Mazda 3 can beat the SRi Astra.

What does this tell you about the SRi Astra handling abilities???

Happy Motoring
DUG74

I don't question the Mazda 3, and with a multi-link rear suspension it won't suffer the wild oversteer of an Astra on the limit (I've deliberately provoked mine sideways on slippery surfaces a couple of times to feel it out). However, the multi-link rear suspension consumes a lot of boot space, and the interior is more cramped. With leather seats, the rrp of a 2.3 Mazda was $3,000 more than my SRi, and I had no trouble at all talking quite a bit of a discount off the Astra. No luck with discounts on the Mazda in Canberra, there's a waiting list.

So it came down to practicality (not big enough) and price. Was the '3' worth $7,000 more than the SRi (that was the difference between the best prices I could get)? Answer, no.

As for relative handling capabilities of the cars close to the limit, I don't know if the Mazda is better or not. I know how to drive a car, I used to race motorcycles after all (read my comment about tossing it sideways despite the ESP). With the Astra, I remember seeing Top Gear on SBS, and a CDTi setting faster lap times around a race circuit than a old-ish Lamborghini 12 cylinder and Ferrari Dino. So blanket statements like 'my car will kick the arse of your car' seem a little over the top. IF the Mazda were better (and it may not be), it wouldn't be by much. Kick arse, get real!

I am surprised by the responses to the handling of the Astra, and I don't know if the 2.2 handles differently to the turbos. I suspect it may, because the harder I sqeeze it just before the apex of a corner, the more front end grip I get (which suits me). It might be the torquey 2.2 has better grip than a turbo purely because it has better part-throttle response (the result of 12:1 compression). Better (or finer) throttle response means better able to exploit the well-set-up front suspension.

The bottom line is the WRX was squealing tyres and understeering, and I was cruising (albeit using my right foot to keep it pointing where I wanted it to go). And all the to-ing and fro-ing won't change that dynamic, the SRi 2.2 had more grip on this smooth surfaced constant-radius slow to medium-speed curve.

[MatsHolden]

Lol, mate the point of the Astra CDTi going up against the old piece of shit lambo was to demonstrate how slow and shit it actually was. It wasn't even running on all cylinders.

[Vectracious]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAA :D :D

I needed that after work tonight.....

This thread has gone into a whole different dimension....................

[blueraven]

I know how to drive a car, I used to race motorcycles after all ....


anyone else think thats a bit....


i know how to dance, i used to be a pro footballer.....

sorry mate but i have put in some track time on racebikes too(rgv250, rs125 and yzf750 track bikes), and i dont think much carries over.

[poita]

i watch football and motorcycle racing.
i must be like the best dirver here!

and to quote you from eariler nik

you must live on an interesting planet

[cbrmale]

anyone else think thats a bit....


i know how to dance, i used to be a pro footballer.....

sorry mate but i have put in some track time on racebikes too(rgv250, rs125 and yzf750 track bikes), and i dont think much carries over.

I think a lot carries over, motorcycles taught me how to deal with on-the-limit behaviour, the warning signs that you're getting close to the limits of grip. 'Cause if you can't feel the limits, you're either going too slow or about to fall off. I always set my bikes up to oversteer on the limit, because I could feel that better.

Anyway, it was more to whoever it was who said 'my Mazda 3 can kick the arse of your Astra', and I won't comment on the tone of that! What does a Mazda 3 derive from anyway?

[dug74]

I think a lot carries over, motorcycles taught me how to deal with on-the-limit behaviour, the warning signs that you're getting close to the limits of grip. 'Cause if you can't feel the limits, you're either going too slow or about to fall off. I always set my bikes up to oversteer on the limit, because I could feel that better.

Anyway, it was more to whoever it was who said 'my Mazda 3 can kick the arse of your Astra', and I won't comment on the tone of that! What does a Mazda 3 derive from anyway?

Well with 190Kw and 380Nm compared to 110Kw and 220Nm...its rather obvious...I indeed would kick your arse.

The point was...my car has more power, better handling and set up for performance...and I think the STi has better handling still...so to think an SRi Astra is better is just silly...no matter who is driving it.

Also...I think the $7000 premium was well worth buying the Mazda 3 over the SRi...its in a totally different league.

I see your point with bikes tho...as we have a member with a MPS and a CBR.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

[glider]

Well with 190Kw and 380Nm compared to 110Kw and 220Nm...its rather obvious...I indeed would kick your arse.

The point was...my car has more power, better handling and set up for performance...and I think the STi has better handling still...so to think an SRi Astra is better is just silly...no matter who is driving it.

Also...I think the $7000 premium was well worth buying the Mazda 3 over the SRi...its in a totally different league.

I see your point with bikes tho...as we have a member with a MPS and a CBR.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

... that'd be like putting a SRi 2.2 up against an SRiT... correct me if i'm wrong MPS has a turbo right? it would be a much fairer comparison against an SRiT i would have thought. I'm surprised anyone would try and compare their 2.2 to a car with a turbo and 80kw more stock... now personally i havent seen how the mps goes in real life but on paper, that SRi is set for a serious whiping

[cbrmale]

... that'd be like putting a SRi 2.2 up against an SRiT... correct me if i'm wrong MPS has a turbo right? it would be a much fairer comparison against an SRiT i would have thought. I'm surprised anyone would try and compare their 2.2 to a car with a turbo and 80kw more stock... now personally i havent seen how the mps goes in real life but on paper, that SRi is set for a serious whiping

It was quoted as being a 2.3L Mazda 3 (the same as I considered and rejected in favour of the Astra). Let me read the post again, yep it's a 2.3L Mazda 3 (Ford Focus platform with engine from the Mazda 6).

I would be stupid to compare my normally aspirated to a turbo, but against a normally aspirated 2.3L Mazda 3, there isn't much between the two. But to me, the Mazda isn't in the hunt because the 2.3L Mazda 3 with leather seats (not Recaro like the Astra) came out $7,000 more expensive and is too cramped for my needs. The turbo (MPS is quoted above) has to be more expensive again, so how much more? $13,700 more than the recommended retail of the SRi. I got $5,000 discount, so that's $18,700 premium, or two-thirds more again!

Dug74, what makes you think a normally aspriated 2.3L Mazda 3 is worth a $7000 price premium over a 2.2 SRi Astra? Do you honestly think it's that good (or an Astra is that bad)? And Dug74, why do you think a Mazda is a totally different league? Do you think I didn't test drive one? Do you think I haven't been on a long country drive as a passenger in one (and half-deafened by tyre noise all the way to Moss Vale and return)? As far as I was concerned, it was toss a coin. Steering / handling / braking, similar at worst (although the SRi has turbo brakes so it stops well). Performance almost identical (both do 0-100 in 8.5 for the manual and 8.9 for an auto). Fuel economy in the SRi's favour (the tricky variable high-pressure direct injection at work). Roominess: the SRi has more head room and a bigger boot. Comfort: the Recaro-sourced leather seats in the SRi are amazing. Noise: the biggest criticism I've read about the Mazda 3 is noise transmitted from the rear suspension.

The only things I could see that the Mazda was better in is the interior lay-out (storage spaces, an armrest and some cupholders) and probably more reliable (as Japanese cars tend to be).

[dug74]

It was quoted as being a 2.3L Mazda 3 (the same as I considered and rejected in favour of the Astra). Let me read the post again, yep it's a 2.3L Mazda 3 (Ford Focus platform with engine from the Mazda 6).

I would be stupid to compare my normally aspirated to a turbo, but against a normally aspirated 2.3L Mazda 3, there isn't much between the two. But to me, the Mazda isn't in the hunt because the 2.3L Mazda 3 with leather seats (not Recaro like the Astra) came out $7,000 more expensive and is too cramped for my needs. The turbo (MPS is quoted above) has to be more expensive again, so how much more? $13,700 more than the recommended retail of the SRi. I got $5,000 discount, so that's $18,700 premium, or two-thirds more again!

Dug74, what makes you think a normally aspriated 2.3L Mazda 3 is worth a $7000 price premium over a 2.2 SRi Astra? Do you honestly think it's that good (or an Astra is that bad)? And Dug74, why do you think a Mazda is a totally different league? Do you think I didn't test drive one? Do you think I haven't been on a long country drive as a passenger in one (and half-deafened by tyre noise all the way to Moss Vale and return)? As far as I was concerned, it was toss a coin. Steering / handling / braking, similar at worst (although the SRi has turbo brakes so it stops well). Performance almost identical (both do 0-100 in 8.5 for the manual and 8.9 for an auto). Fuel economy in the SRi's favour (the tricky variable high-pressure direct injection at work). Roominess: the SRi has more head room and a bigger boot. Comfort: the Recaro-sourced leather seats in the SRi are amazing. Noise: the biggest criticism I've read about the Mazda 3 is noise transmitted from the rear suspension.

The only things I could see that the Mazda was better in is the interior lay-out (storage spaces, an armrest and some cupholders) and probably more reliable (as Japanese cars tend to be).

Im lost...where do you get this $7000 and $18000

Astra SRi = $31000 ish +orc.. 2.2L engine 110Kw 220Nm <no recaros> but leather (runs on 95RON)

SP23 = $31690+orc.. 2.3L DISI engine 115Kw 203Nm <full leather> (runs on 91RON)

Astra SRiT = $34990+orc.. 2.0L Turbo engine 147Kw 262Nm <no recaros> but leather (runs on 95RON)

Astra VXR = $42990+orc.. 2.0L Turbo engine 177Kw 320Nm <recaros> (runs on 98RON)

MPS3 = $39990+orc 2.3L DISI Turbo engine 190Kw 380Nm <sports cloth trim> (runs on 98RON)

MPS3 Sports= $43690+orc 2.3L DISI Turbo engine 190Kw 380Nm <half leather> (runs on 98RON)

Thanks...its been good...you have a 1st class education..and a double major in Maths.

Happy Motoring
DUG74

P.S. The whole point of the posts was to prove....that under no circumstances could a 2.2L SRi out power or handle a STi....or MPS for that matter.

[Geebs]

This is hilarious.

We all love our cars. Hey for some they're our pride and joy. Let's be realistic though.

This started out with someone saying that an AH Astra had better handling than a WRX. :confused: I drive a VXR but still miss the handling of my MY98 Rexxie at times.

Then this started getting out of hand so its turned into an an AH Astra 2.2 is better than a Mazda SP23. FFS PEOPLES!!!! They're both different cars with each their pluses and minuses.

Love ur car but don't dis shit on others or make stupid outrageous comments about how good your car is (or isnt for some people)....

On another note - does a 2.2 SRI Astra have Recaro (or later referred to as 'Recaro sourced') seats???. I thought that only the VXR's have the Recaros, not even the SRI-T (I will stand corrected if im wrong)....

Now, I look up and the topic is 08 WRX STi - let's stick to it!

[OPC]

hahaha my missus excel could outhandle an STi

[MatsHolden]

hahaha my missus excel could outhandle an STi

Bullshit, :p

[OPC]

Bullshit, :p

no shit mat... im serious... well an STi without an engine or wheels anyway

but it would still outhandle it

[MatsHolden]

no shit mat... im serious... well an STi without an engine or wheels anyway

but it would still outhandle it

hahaha does it have an STi bonnet scoop as well?

[OPC]

hahaha does it have an STi bonnet scoop as well?

ummmmm... no just badges

[Wraith]

This is hilarious.

We all love our cars. Hey for some they're our pride and joy. Let's be realistic though.

This started out with someone saying that an AH Astra had better handling than a WRX. :confused: I drive a VXR but still miss the handling of my MY98 Rexxie at times.

Then this started getting out of hand so its turned into an an AH Astra 2.2 is better than a Mazda SP23. FFS PEOPLES!!!! They're both different cars with each their pluses and minuses.

Love ur car but don't dis shit on others or make stupid outrageous comments about how good your car is (or isnt for some people)....

On another note - does a 2.2 SRI Astra have Recaro (or later referred to as 'Recaro sourced') seats???. I thought that only the VXR's have the Recaros, not even the SRI-T (I will stand corrected if im wrong)....

Now, I look up and the topic is 08 WRX STi - let's stick to it!

:clap:

Finally a post to end the madness - hoping anyways :)

Geebs AFAIK all Opels are fitted with Recaro brand seats, they are just their cheap mass production types not the nicer upper end units like those in the VXR and other sports cars....

[cbrmale]

Then this started getting out of hand so its turned into an an AH Astra 2.2 is better than a Mazda SP23. FFS PEOPLES!!!! They're both different cars with each their pluses and minuses.

Love ur car but don't dis shit on others or make stupid outrageous comments about how good your car is (or isnt for some people)....

On another note - does a 2.2 SRI Astra have Recaro (or later referred to as 'Recaro sourced') seats???. I thought that only the VXR's have the Recaros, not even the SRI-T (I will stand corrected if im wrong)....


I don't know where the SP23 comparo came on (other than I mentioned I looked at one but the on-road costs were significantly more than a SRi, so I bought the Astra 'cause I couldn't see the value for the extra cost). Suddenly, it (the Mazda) became the most desirable piece of machinery on the road! For heavens sake the Astra has it's flaws, like all cars built to a price have flaws. They're all compromises, some compromise better in some areas, some in others.

For those who want the maths this is all in May 2007. The SP23 four door was about $31,000, extra for the leather seats, extra for the pack that came with equivalent wheels and tyres to the SRi, RRP was almost $34,000. I went to three Mazda dealers, no discount and less-than-market trade-in valuations. The Astra SRi four-door Hatch RRP $30,000. The Holden dealer gave me a $4,000 off the Astra (they also gave a big discount off my wife's XC Barina a few years ago). Total: almost $8,000 more for a SP23 equivalent to an Astra SRi. I think the Holden dealer inflated my trade-in by about $1000 above market value to get the deal. At the time I half-knew the Astra would be much cheaper, because Commodore sales have slowed to a crawl in Canberra and they'll discount to get volume on other models to make up.

To answer your question, all Astras have Recaro seats. The SRi (2.2 and turbo) have leather-faced upper-range Recaros (identified by the multi-adjustment for driver and front passenger (height, tilt and lumbar for both) as well as the agressive side-bolstering you have to climb over). The VXR has Recaro seats, but different leather facings. I don't know if the VXR has more up-market seats compared to the SRi or not.

[MatsHolden]

Threads going around in circles and WAY off topic.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/gr/hpi/hpiz159.jpg