New Wrx [Archive] - OpelAus Forums

Calibrated

9th September 2007, 05:28 PM

The power figures are too low for an engine that size and force-fed. Especially peak torque kicking in at a high 2800rpm....I mean come on...turbo charged 2.5L....give me peak torque at 1900rpm all the way through 4000rpm and I'll be impressed.
excuse me?

focus st 2.5 5cyl 166kw 0-100 6.5sec
impreza wrx 2.5 4cyl 169kw 0-100 5.4sec (claimed) (drive tested at 5.8)

i know they could EASILY push over 200kw, but keep in mind the market they are aiming for with the new wrx. if you want power, its always been the reason to buy the STi.

bornwild

9th September 2007, 06:27 PM

excuse me?

focus st 2.5 5cyl 166kw 0-100 6.5sec
impreza wrx 2.5 4cyl 169kw 0-100 5.4sec (claimed) (drive tested at 5.8)

i know they could EASILY push over 200kw, but keep in mind the market they are aiming for with the new wrx. if you want power, its always been the reason to buy the STi.

Yeah but the focus st has peak torque kicking in at 1600rpm all the way to 4000rpm. Capiche?

ps. Excuse me?!

blueraven

9th September 2007, 07:37 PM

the MPS has beaten the new wrx in about 3 or 4 comparo's done in the states..search youtube and you will find two of them. The only thing the wrx has going for it these days is awd..nothing else.

EL BURITO

9th September 2007, 07:56 PM

completely missed the point of my post .

rear lights are odd. LED's look odd.

Interior looks alright, but its still a bit of a funny shap over all and the lack of the aggressively ugly look of the last model is lost on the the new, but with this thou additional buyers will likely look at it

low astra

9th September 2007, 08:16 PM

what a ****ing hunk of shit, looks like the stylist might have called in sick on this one, i hope the sti version is a lot better looking, just looks boring as is

CORZZA

9th September 2007, 08:32 PM

it looks like turd!!!and the interior is so boring!the only thing it has going for it is its performance!Im happy with my choice!

SIMid

9th September 2007, 09:14 PM

I'll have this version anyday.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/87747/2008-Subaru-WRX-WRC-i001.jpg

Calibrated

9th September 2007, 09:17 PM

I'll have this version anyday.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/87747/2008-Subaru-WRX-WRC-i001.jpg
Thats HOT!! I LIKE THAT!!!!

blueraven

9th September 2007, 09:23 PM

you can have that concept....

i prefer this one ;)

http://www.3dluvr.com/grid/temp/WRXSTIPSE3D/fWRXSTIPSE04_V3_11__.jpg

dug74

9th September 2007, 09:27 PM

the MPS has beaten the new wrx in about 3 or 4 comparo's done in the states..search youtube and you will find two of them. The only thing the wrx has going for it these days is awd..nothing else.

LOL

After watching a few youtube reviews...the AWD only gives it a good 0 - 100 time....it still handles like a boat and was beaten on everything except the 0 - 100 time by the MPS.

P.S. The wrx did it in 5.8 ..the MPS 6.1.

As for interior...the MPS wins hands down easy.

I hope they can work miracles on the STi version and fix this horrible mistake they call a WRX.

I know I will stick to what i have.

Cheers
DUG74

CORZZA

9th September 2007, 09:53 PM

the only reason its a nose ahead in the 0-100 is cos of the AWD!

USC

9th September 2007, 10:19 PM

I saw a white WRX on the road in the city the other day...looks completely rubbish! a bit like a lowered korean SUV 4 wheel drive thingy....the front grille looks crap and the rear lights look very weird!

very disappointed with the new REX....the STI better add some goddies to it!!

blueraven

9th September 2007, 10:27 PM

exactly... at the 400m mark the wrx travelling more than 5mph slower than the mazda...and thats ALOT.

but it should..the mazda has alot more power..

bornwild

9th September 2007, 10:54 PM

Exactly what I was saying. That engine in the wrx is shit. No fanboyism here please...it's just factually shit.

CORZZA

9th September 2007, 11:31 PM

exactly... at the 400m mark the wrx travelling more than 5mph slower than the mazda...and thats ALOT.

but it should..the mazda has alot more power..

and iv seen a few on you tube where the mps flys past the wrx on the 400m mark. you take that to the 800m & 1km mark the mps is gooooonnnnnnee:)

Calibrated

9th September 2007, 11:36 PM

i suppose we should probably reserve comment until the STi is released.

skulless

10th September 2007, 12:59 AM

well i still think the old rex is alot nicer, power wise, isn't the mps should be made comparable to the sti, being the top of the range for it's series?

out of topic, i don't like the looks of the 08 evo either

Shaun

10th September 2007, 01:23 AM

The power figures are too low for an engine that size and force-fed. Especially peak torque kicking in at a high 2800rpm....I mean come on...turbo charged 2.5L....give me peak torque at 1900rpm all the way through 4000rpm and I'll be impressed.

Do you even know what your talking about ? Go and drive one . The 2.5 has a lot of Petental .

Exactly what I was saying. That engine in the wrx is shit. No fanboyism here please...it's just factually shit.

Go and drive the ****ing thing before passing judgement .. because you clearly havent driven one.

To everyone else:
as for the STi version i cant wait to see what they do with it. If the rally concept is anything to go by then i think Subaru will have a waiting list. The new WRX is conservitive compared to earlier models. But they are trying to change there image. when you look at the liberty against the Imprezza range you can see why they have changed the focus. It dosesnt matter. The car may not appeal to those who bought them in the past but they will appeal to a new market. A market that will open more doors for Subaru.

Calibrated

10th September 2007, 01:54 AM

Do you even know what your talking about ? Go and drive one . The 2.5 has a lot of Petental .

Go and drive the ****ing thing before passing judgement .. because you clearly havent driven one.

To everyone else:
as for the STi version i cant wait to see what they do with it. If the rally concept is anything to go by then i think Subaru will have a waiting list. The new WRX is conservitive compared to earlier models. But they are trying to change there image. when you look at the liberty against the Imprezza range you can see why they have changed the focus. It dosesnt matter. The car may not appeal to those who bought them in the past but they will appeal to a new market. A market that will open more doors for Subaru.
Finally somebody that talks sense:clap::clap::clap:

Wraith

10th September 2007, 09:29 AM

I'll have this version anyday.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/87747/2008-Subaru-WRX-WRC-i001.jpg

That's what I'm talking about too :)

This new Sti is the 1st rex I've ever liked the look of and if the production model looks like the pic above and it's priced similar to the outgoing model, I may very well own one as my next everyday ride :)

Released figures on the car ATM have it at 225kw and 430nm stock - 0-100km/h in under 5 sec, good enough for me and we al know the tuning potential of these ;)

I still prefer the new Evo with SST, but at a rumoured 75-80k on road, the 'lesser' Sti might do the trick....

rjastra

10th September 2007, 10:07 AM

blueraven

10th September 2007, 10:33 AM

The only thing going for the MPS3 is straight line speed. You can see it in road tests now that the power aura of the MPS3 is slowly tarnishing. One dimensional perhaps? And it is as bland looking as the new WRX.

The WRX is actually giving you everything the MPS3 LUX has PLUS AWD for LESS money. And the tuning potential for the engine and chassis far far outstrip anything available for the MPS3.

UM.. the MPS out handled the new wrx(see the reviews)..and has a better interior...and has been around for a few years(which means the wrx has a few years development to be better, which it isnt)...and if you look around it also has some serious tuning potential (seen one with 240kw at the wheels with a remap/exhaust/intake mods only, i know plenty of wrx's are higher, but if you are making custom manifolds and buying bigger turbo's there is no reason why you cant do that to the mps). The less money is only slightly less, and i would expect to pay more for the MPS, more power, better interior etc etc...

so i say again, the ONLY thing the wrx has going for it over its competition is awd.

Bring on the sti. i hope it looks more like the cgi i posted.

blueraven

10th September 2007, 10:36 AM

bornwild

10th September 2007, 12:40 PM

And yeah, the only thing the rex has going for it these days is AWD. Subaru is stuck in the days of Colin Mcrae glory too much.

Wraith

10th September 2007, 01:13 PM

only thing i hope the manufacturer's take notice of is the price.

Main reason they are flogging soooo many evo 9's is that it came in just under the Luxury car tax threshold. Lets hope they do the same with the evo X and sti ;) (i seriously, seriously doubt it tho :( )

I hope so too BR......:)

But it does seem unlikely especially for the new Evo 10, pricing rumoured/speculated so far puts it at 60-72k +ORC's depending on spec and fit out....

The new Sti is rumoured to be priced at similar to the outgoing model, ie: well under 60k +ORC's.

With regard to the Evo 9 pricing - what Mitsubishi Australia did was price it exactly the same as the equivalent model Sti, to try and grab more sales, the fact did this was under the LT threshhold was coincidentle !

Vectracious

10th September 2007, 03:37 PM

Exactly what I was saying. That engine in the wrx is shit. No fanboyism here please...it's just factually shit.

WHY is it shit? No bullshit ripping statements out of your arse here please, just facts about why the boxer is shit..... :rolleyes::cool:

btm

10th September 2007, 04:57 PM

i dont mind the styling... and the AWD is a bonus

Wraith

10th September 2007, 05:18 PM

i dont mind the styling... and the AWD is a bonus

I agree with the above, but as always it's each to their own...

As far as the boxer engine is concerned, I think we all know it is one very potent powerplant !

The power and torque level of the new 'basic' rex has been purposely made tame, for good fuel efficiency and so that the car drives and responds smoothly and so that it has a very docile character, as others have mentioned Subaru are trying to appeal to a larger demographic or buying market with this car, not just the younger street hoons.

The Sti's reported power output is more like it for this engine, but tuned examples of the 2.5 can have well over 300kw and over 600nm without too much trouble and still be used everyday....

CORZZA

10th September 2007, 06:38 PM

UM.. the MPS out handled the new wrx(see the reviews)..and has a better interior...and has been around for a few years(which means the wrx has a few years development to be better, which it isnt)...and if you look around it also has some serious tuning potential (seen one with 240kw at the wheels with a remap/exhaust/intake mods only, i know plenty of wrx's are higher, but if you are making custom manifolds and buying bigger turbo's there is no reason why you cant do that to the mps). The less money is only slightly less, and i would expect to pay more for the MPS, more power, better interior etc etc...

so i say again, the ONLY thing the wrx has going for it over its competition is awd.

Bring on the sti. i hope it looks more like the cgi i posted.

exactly man! you speak the truth there!I dont think this rjastra does much research!there are some very powerful mps's in the states and ones that handle hard around a track! go do some research rjastra. seriously!

xplosv57

10th September 2007, 07:05 PM

The new Scooby Doo looks like scooby poo on some angles (especially the back, but the front looks alright in black!!!

No complaints about the boxer motor though, if it ain't broke.........

STi looks alot better though from what i've seen!!!

CORZZA

10th September 2007, 08:50 PM

Shaun

10th September 2007, 11:28 PM

WHY is it shit? No bullshit ripping statements out of your arse here please, just facts about why the boxer is shit..... :rolleyes::cool:

I support the above post.. Bornwild Please do explain why the boxer engine is shit?

Porsche have used a flat engine for many years. cant be all that bad of an arrangement can it now.

rjastra

11th September 2007, 12:04 AM

exactly man! you speak the truth there!I dont think this rjastra does much research!there are some very powerful mps's in the states and ones that handle hard around a track! go do some research rjastra. seriously!

Why are we even mentioning "modded" cars? huh? What relevance does it have to any particular make?

Punch for punch in the mod stakes you are going to get a bigger win with a WRX (or EVO) than a MPS3. And the range of suppliers for those cars (and teh Golf Gti) is far larger than whats available for the MPS3.

blueraven

11th September 2007, 10:46 AM

Why are we even mentioning "modded" cars? huh?
.

Um..because you keep bringing up the fact that you can mod the wrx more than the mps? no one will argue that. But stock vs stock, the winner is pretty clear to me.(the argument should only EVER be stock vs stock, becuase with enough money i could make a 1000hp AWD suzuki swift, and then argue that a swift is better than a porsche gt3 etc...)

Wraith

11th September 2007, 01:55 PM

OK some more pics of the new STI.....apparantly this 'IS' what it will look like

IMHO except for the chrome tail lights (you'd be able to change em with aftermarkets before long for sure) it looks very nice - I like the side on profile and the quad exhaust set up.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4mje6fq.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/4hvxhcz.jpg

btm

11th September 2007, 02:28 PM

almost looks a bit BMW 1 series-ish...

GreyRex

11th September 2007, 02:35 PM

Yeah that looks a LITTLE better. Wheels seem oversized, going from what they were like on previous versions. I think that's what i like about that pic, that the wheels make it look more purposeful. Even these brand new Rexey ones look a little anorexic

Tfer

11th September 2007, 02:37 PM

Question.... are Saab and Subaru model sharing still? Just think this looks very Saabish.... and maybe that's why it styling is what it is :)

Wraith

11th September 2007, 02:56 PM

Don't know about that one Thomas ??

Right from the beginning, this new rex hatch had a strong BMW 1 series and Mazda 3 hatch look about it........

Oh well, there it is, the Hottest of the Hot hatches :D

skulless

11th September 2007, 05:34 PM

aren't we suppose to get the sedans in by late 08 as well? i tot i read somwhere before...

dug74

11th September 2007, 07:45 PM

Well after reading a few pages...i can understand that some ppl need to do research..

The boxer engine is an awesome engine...the only downside..it will be fazed out in 2010..due to emissions.

The reason the performance is lower than what you think it should be is related to fuel economy and emission levels.<also a new segment of ppl to buy the car>

Stock Vs Stock....im sorry...the MPS is the winner...it has good points it has bad points...so does the VXR, XR5 and GTI...so this debate can go on for hours and hours....choose what you like...if the scooby does it for you...BUY ONE.

I personally have never liked WRX...but who am i to judge...but i hope subaru do something great with the STi...as the normal range is not very appealing and it isnt really a hot hatch...more a kia rio on roids.

Should the MPS be put up against the Evo and STi becoz its the top of the range mazda....Hmmm NO..totally different market, price and buyer.
Also...the MPS aint bad for $20K less and still can keep its own with the big boys..if some of you actually went to the STi forums...you might understand that the scooby boys have great respect for the MPS and what mazda has achieved. <it can only get better>

MPS owners are growing very quickly becoz its been proven to be a great BFYB hot hatch, which in turn has brought support from overseas for mods. As it grows, like WRX did in the early days...more things will become available.

As for your, i can get 300Kw outta a STi.....you can get 400Kw outta a MPS with a simple change of turbo <garret>, FMIC, and a xede chip and zorst. Its amazing what you can do with $$$.

I have driven a new WRX the other day...and although i didnt like them from looks etc...they aint that bad to drive...the interior is more classy and not made of cheap korean plastics. It goes along well and can have great potential like all the previous models should anyone want to mod it.

In closing....ppl need to remember what the car was made for, who they intended to sell it to <market> and will it make a profit. Isnt that what holden did when it ripped all the euro cars out and replaced them with cheap korean imports.

Happy Motoring.
DUG74

Wraith

11th September 2007, 08:55 PM

aren't we suppose to get the sedans in by late 08 as well? i tot i read somwhere before...

As far as I know, Australia will not get the new Wrx sedan, apparently it's destined for the JDM and U.S markets only...

However time will tell, we'll know for sure eventually :)

Wraith

11th September 2007, 08:58 PM

rjastra

11th September 2007, 10:27 PM

you can get 400Kw outta a MPS with a simple change of turbo <garret>, FMIC, and a xede chip and zorst. Its amazing what you can do with $$$.

Of course the question to be asked is how you get those hypothetical 400kw (and 500Nm+) to the ground through the front wheels ;)

MatsHolden

11th September 2007, 10:29 PM

Of course the question to be asked is how you get those hypothetical 400kw (and 500Nm+) to the ground through the front wheels ;)

Just say "she'll be right".

Wraith

11th September 2007, 10:48 PM

LOL yes with that kind of power, (400kw) I think you'd want/prefer AWD or RWD would be loads of fun :D

Here's another 08 Sti pic....I hope they fit the rear view mirror side repeaters, very cool.

http://i17.tinypic.com/66we847.jpg

CORZZA

11th September 2007, 11:33 PM

Um..because you keep bringing up the fact that you can mod the wrx more than the mps? no one will argue that. But stock vs stock, the winner is pretty clear to me.(the argument should only EVER be stock vs stock, becuase with enough money i could make a 1000hp AWD suzuki swift, and then argue that a swift is better than a porsche gt3 etc...)

lol! rasta doesnt seem to know what hes even said!but ya true should only ever be stock for stock when comparing

dug74

12th September 2007, 12:07 AM

Of course the question to be asked is how you get those hypothetical 400kw (and 500Nm+) to the ground through the front wheels ;)

Hey i totally agree...its hard enough putting 190Kw <about 164Kw atfw> to the ground and mazda has already limited 1st and 2nd gears....but the question wasnt how you put it to the ground...it was how much power you can get outta a engine/car....and that really depends on like i said..how much $$$$ you wanna spend.

Oh if mazda made a MPS 3 sedan...i would have had one too...but a hatch isnt that bad...im learning to live with it.

From what hype around....the new M3 range will be a huge step forward as Mazda roll out the Zoom Zoom project on all new models...with the M6 being the first cab of the rank.

A 3.5L V6 will put Mazda and the M6 in with the big boys and make take some market share...which is what subaru are doing...trying a new market for more share of the pie.

Anyways...enough of this.....whether you like the new WRX or not....its here to stay and ppl will still buy it...i have already seen a few on the road already.

Happy Motoring.
DUG74

Wraith

12th September 2007, 10:12 AM

A 3.5L V6 will put Mazda and the M6 in with the big boys and make take some market share...which is what subaru are doing...trying a new market for more share of the pie.

Anyways...enough of this.....whether you like the new WRX or not....its here to stay and ppl will still buy it...i have already seen a few on the road already.

Happy Motoring.
DUG74

I hope your right, the 6 could definitely use a 3.5ltr V6 - reports I've read say, it'll continue to be a 4 potter only - it's the same Duratec V6 engine that's going to be used in the new Ford Falcon, yeh ???

As for the new rexs on the road, are they mules or actual production cars ??? I thought the new rex models were going on sale next year :confused:

The new Sti certainly looks good IMO but what it lacks in the looks department, it'll make up for with hi performance - latest info still has it at 225kw and 430nm (like the Evos these figures are usually much higher in reality) with a weight of 1490kg (less than the current model) and capable of 0-100km/h in 4.6sec. yummie stuff :)

Calibrated

12th September 2007, 10:23 AM

A white wrx pulled into my work yesterday. it really does look better in the flesh(metal)

rjastra

12th September 2007, 10:45 AM

There is a WRX vs GOLF test in todays MOTOR.
Paraphrase

Little turbo lag, smooth engine, no aural excitement. Interior roomy but downmarket. Seats are underwhelming. Not enough adjustability in seating position. Quiet comfortable suspension that soaks up just about any surface.
Very adjustable suspension. Lots of grip and body control. A little understeer on exiting corners under full power. Only a 5 speed gearbox that means high revs when cruising.

Takes it to another level when FWD hot hatches have reached their limit.
Very competent hot hatch that's too bland to look at or sit in.

Golf Gti: Engine sounds good compared to WRX's silence. Firmer suspension settings and slightly more road noise. Interior detailing and layout much better than Subaru. Seats excellent. Performance is similar to the WRX in real life. Handling can't match the WRX at the limit or in adverse conditions. Much more desireable than WRX.

Wraith

12th September 2007, 11:26 AM

That sounds about right as Subaru have purposely 'softened' the new wrx, I'm surprised the Golf has more road noise ?? it should be the quieter of the 2...

I too would prefer a Golf Gti over the standard new wrx, but the Sti should be a totally different story, looking forward to seeing how it does when it's released :)

entice

12th September 2007, 12:36 PM

mmm sti...

I for one think its a shame that they are on the 2.5L engine.. from my experience there is far more tractabnility from a fully forged 2.0L engine, and the 2.0 is a far more revhappy engine.. power and "tractability" in the 2.0L from what I have seen personally is far better in teh 2.0 JDM motor, c.f 2.5L. Perhaps that's also due to development time.. and also a bias of my own, due to my own experience. Also, I am led to understand that the tuning potential of teh 2.0 is greater than the 2.5. perhaps that also is due to time on the market, market spread, and development.

in my eyes, there is no comaprison between sti and MPS...

sorry, but the STI is a track weapon, ready for track ferom the showroom floor. I doubt that the MPS drivetrain can sustain the same punishment as the sti, again, from my own experience with the 2.0L. the engines (post initial rollout that were 100ron tuned) and gearboxes/ 3 diffs are relatively bulletproof...

oh, and then there are the brakes.... I havent researched, but what rotor/caliper/pad combo does teh MPS run?

bornwild

12th September 2007, 12:46 PM

I support the above post.. Bornwild Please do explain why the boxer engine is shit?

Porsche have used a flat engine for many years. cant be all that bad of an arrangement can it now.

Wherever did I say that Boxer engines are shit?!

rjastra

12th September 2007, 12:46 PM

That sounds about right as Subaru have purposely 'softened' the new wrx, I'm surprised the Golf has more road noise ?? it should be the quieter of the 2...

A common failing with some euro cars. They can be noisey on some coarse roads. Either that or the tyres used (Golf GTI has significantly wider tyres than then WRX)

Vectracious

12th September 2007, 01:48 PM

Wherever did I say that Boxer engines are shit?!

Early onset alzheimers????

Exactly what I was saying. That engine in the wrx is shit. No fanboyism here please...it's just factually shit.

So why is it shit?

reedaaron

12th September 2007, 01:54 PM

Exactly what I was saying. That engine in the wrx is shit. No fanboyism here please...it's just factually shit.

i think that this is what he was referring to.... :rolleyes:

reedaaron

12th September 2007, 01:55 PM

oops, too slow :p

bornwild

12th September 2007, 03:38 PM

Exactly, nowhere in there did I mention Boxer.....only that engine in the WRX.

What's my reasons? Well, 2.5l(a large capacity 4cyl) with turbocharging putting out 320Nm at nearly 3000rpm and 3600rpm in the earlier version???

C'mon.....there's turbocharged 4cyl putting out more torque at much lower revs, i.e. 1900rpm.

The Astra OPC has a smaller engine with the same torque as the WRX kicking in at 400rpm earlier.....Crap engineering if you ask me, especially since the entire point of a BOXER engine is more torque....(and lower COG and more balanced power etc.)

PS. It may be that the WRX torque curve is rather flat but only peaks at 2800rpm....even then....still shit.

Vectracious

12th September 2007, 04:10 PM

Exactly, nowhere in there did I mention Boxer.....only that engine in the WRX.

That's what I was referring to as well - I asked "why is THE boxer shit?"

What's my reasons? Well, 2.5l(a large capacity 4cyl) with turbocharging putting out 320Nm at nearly 3000rpm and 3600rpm in the earlier version???

C'mon.....there's turbocharged 4cyl putting out more torque at much lower revs, i.e. 1900rpm.

What... diesels?

The Astra OPC has a smaller engine with the same torque as the WRX kicking in at 400rpm earlier.....Crap engineering if you ask me, especially since the entire point of a BOXER engine is more torque....(and lower COG and more balanced power etc.)

PS. It may be that the WRX torque curve is rather flat but only peaks at 2800rpm....even then....still shit.

Congratulations to the OPC. Subaru would have engineered and designed the engine so it could do what it had to do - not win a pissing contest of peak torque and power.....

The OPC peak torque kicks in a WHOLE 400rpm earlier - fark me - I'd better hold on to the Jesus handle 0.3 of a second earlier in a VXR.... and you crap on about peak torque figures, and then say that the WRX torque curve is rather flat - well then who give a shit if peak torque comes in at 2800 rpm - its going to have quite smooth power delivery anyway.

WHen the 2.5 came in the MY06 model and the EJ20 was retired - power stayed the same and torque went up only 20Nm for 0.5L of extra engine. Why did Subaru did that? ****ed if I know, however I'm sure that since they are in the business of making cars, they would know what they were doing and not worry about some nobody on an internet forum calling their engines "factually shit" just because they didnt follow the traditional formula of more cubes = more power.

rjastra

12th September 2007, 04:33 PM

WHen the 2.5 came in the MY06 model and the EJ20 was retired - power stayed the same and torque went up only 20Nm for 0.5L of extra engine. Why did Subaru did that? ****ed if I know,

It's all about driveability. Anyone got a graph of the torque curves of the 2L, 2.5L and current WRX engines?

Of course the other point is that the OPC is equivalent to an STI Impreza (both the tuned hipo versions) :)

If you look at a "normal" Astra SRi Turbo you find the max Nm happens at 4200rpm for a figure of 262Nm. The WRX doesn't look so bad now does it?

Vectracious

12th September 2007, 04:38 PM

It's all about driveability. Anyone got a graph of the torque curves of the 2L, 2.5L and current WRX engines?

You're correct about the driveability - the 2.5L basically got rid of the lag the WRX suffered from up until about 2700rpm with the 2.0L - however, having driven an 01 an 03 and my 05 - they did pretty well in the 05 to get rid of as much lag as possible.

But we're looking at it waaaay too deep rjastra - all that matters is who's got the biggest dick. :rolleyes::cool:

MatsHolden

12th September 2007, 08:10 PM

bornwild

12th September 2007, 08:12 PM

It's all about driveability. Anyone got a graph of the torque curves of the 2L, 2.5L and current WRX engines?

Of course the other point is that the OPC is equivalent to an STI Impreza (both the tuned hipo versions) :)

If you look at a "normal" Astra SRi Turbo you find the max Nm happens at 4200rpm for a figure of 262Nm. The WRX doesn't look so bad now does it?

Price-wise the WRX stacks up somewhere about the same as the VXR, not the Astra turbo.

What... diesels?

No. Ford Focus ST....same sized engine....putting out 320Nm from 1800rpm to 4000rpm. All the other hot hatches have peak torque very early on as well.....except the Megane.

.. and you crap on about peak torque figures, and then say that the WRX torque curve is rather flat - well then who give a shit if peak torque comes in at 2800 rpm - its going to have quite smooth power delivery anyway.

I said 'Maybe' it has a flat torque curve. Can't find any torque graphs so yeah...

ohhh....and that 'nobody' knows the subaru boxer engine inside-out.

Anyhow, I agree with Entice fully.

P.S. I can't wait for the turbodiesel version of the Subaru boxer engine, which will be coming out 2008/2009.:)

bornwild

12th September 2007, 08:14 PM

Subaru WRX engines are shit... yeh awesome argument. :rolleyes: Really who gives a shit about peak power and torque... as rjastra said, driveability and useability is what it's about. Do some track work and you'll quickly learn that.

Ironically, the moment in time when peak power and torque kick in are very important in track work. Hence I said the engine is shit......:cool:

MatsHolden

12th September 2007, 08:22 PM

Ironically, the moment in time when peak power and torque kick in are very important in track work. Hence I said the engine is shit......:cool:

It's not all about the engine... no good worrying about peak power and torque if you can't turn corners. Is the Volvo 5 cylinder in the XR5 shit too? Considering it's got a whole extra cylinder and extra capacity and doesn't produce as much power as the VXR? The engine isn't factually shit, it's your oppinion.. you don't like it and that's fine. There's a difference between an engine that is shit and an engine that you don't like.

bornwild

12th September 2007, 08:36 PM

dug74

12th September 2007, 09:42 PM

Well, I'm a fan of the XR5 engine mainly cause of the sound and agility....it's the same capacity as the WRX engine and puts out flat 320Nm 1000rpm earlier all the way up to 4000rpm. The volvo engine is more suited to track work than the subaru engine, however.

And yes, I do not like the 2.5l engine. It's 'soft' compared to the 2.0l old-school boxer.

Anyhow, we'll never agree so I'll just stop it here.

I think he will never agree because you dont have your facts....

The boxer engine and the 5 sp manual are well suited for the track...and i will admit...the VXR and MPS are not...doesnt mean they can't keep up. just have to do a bit more work.

If you want to continue with your power and torque summary....a 2.3L turbo mazda engine puts out 190Kw and 380Nm....60Nm more than any other hot hatch...how does that work????

More cubes = more power is so Australian and is rather outdated.

The MPS uses S40 brakes from the volvo.

The XR5 is a awesome car on the track....handles very well and has a nice flat torque curve that only the 5cyl can produce....so that extra cylinder even tho it doesnt produce the Kw you want to see from a big 2.5L...makes a huge difference with you need to keep the power in a certain range around the track.

Vectracious, rjastra and a few others obviously understand what im talking about...its not always about Kw and Nm....more about balance and handling. The new WRX doesnt deliver this and the reason has already been explained...its now a "general" car to suit all markets/ages not just young boy racers.

The STi....thats another story and another market.

One thing that annoys me is why..Japanese car companies are giving out figures on the cars on paper that are tamed down compared to what it really produces.

The new Evo and STi will have 225Kw on paper...like the MPS has 190Kw on paper....but i have heard that Japan has that gentlemans agreement and that they limit power.....but in real life the figures are much higher...some MPS have produced well more than the 190Kw stock...and every car is different. Insiders have said the power of the STi will be more like 240Kw...but they say lower figures on paper as its better to under estimate than over..as some companies have done...

Cheers
DUG74

Shaun

12th September 2007, 09:57 PM

Wherever did I say that Boxer engines are shit?!

Ahh yep!!! You have just proven to me that you are a TOOL. Little background information. The Boxer motor used in the WRX. A flat four engine is refered to as a " Boxer" motor because of piston motion looks like a boxers arms in in motion.

Congraulations on being " Opelaus Tool of the month"

That's what I was referring to as well - I asked "why is THE boxer shit?"

What... diesels?

Congratulations to the OPC. Subaru would have engineered and designed the engine so it could do what it had to do - not win a pissing contest of peak torque and power.....

The OPC peak torque kicks in a WHOLE 400rpm earlier - fark me - I'd better hold on to the Jesus handle 0.3 of a second earlier in a VXR.... and you crap on about peak torque figures, and then say that the WRX torque curve is rather flat - well then who give a shit if peak torque comes in at 2800 rpm - its going to have quite smooth power delivery anyway.

WHen the 2.5 came in the MY06 model and the EJ20 was retired - power stayed the same and torque went up only 20Nm for 0.5L of extra engine. Why did Subaru did that? ****ed if I know, however I'm sure that since they are in the business of making cars, they would know what they were doing and not worry about some nobody on an internet forum calling their engines "factually shit" just because they didnt follow the traditional formula of more cubes = more power.

More then likely to do with Fuel figures then anything. I know the exhaust dump pipe on the turbos are as restrictive as **** from factory .

bornwild

12th September 2007, 10:43 PM

Ahh yep!!! You have just proven to me that you are a TOOL. Little background information. The Boxer motor used in the WRX. A flat four engine is refered to as a " Boxer" motor because of piston motion looks like a boxers arms in in motion.

Congraulations on being " Opelaus Tool of the month"

You're a genius. I'm amazed you haven't been awarded a Nobel prize already.

Let's see if this will get picked up by the admins as personal insult.

Shaun

12th September 2007, 11:12 PM

You're a genius. I'm amazed you haven't been awarded a Nobel prize already.

Let's see if this will get picked up by the admins as personal insult.

Genius. Why thanks. Thats quite kind of you to mention that .

Vectracious

12th September 2007, 11:14 PM

Shaun: stop calling people tools.

Bornwild: you didn't say "maybe", you said "It may be that the WRX torque curve is rather flat but only peaks at 2800rpm....even then....still shit." which to me reads as you saying that the WRX torque curve IS flat - not that it maybe flat.. And isn't it weird that you have described yourself as an expert on the boxer motors, but then you speculate about the torque curve??? somebody who proclaims they know the subaru boxer motor "inside out" should be able to draw a damn torque curve off by heart....

Shaun

12th September 2007, 11:30 PM

Shaun: stop calling people tools.

....

Ok maybe i was alittle too harsh.... But it could have been worse...

bornwild

12th September 2007, 11:49 PM

Update on the torque curve. It isn't flat. It peaks gradually and then sharply drops.

PS. Well not everyone manufactures boxer engines at the quality level of Porsches, hence speculation about Subarus torque curve. :)

USC

12th September 2007, 11:58 PM

Shaun and Bornwild are like Dave Hughes and Kyle (from australian Idol)....lol

this conversation is getting HOT...:D

Shaun

13th September 2007, 07:53 AM

Shaun and Bornwild are like Dave Hughes and Kyle (from australian Idol)....lol

this conversation is getting HOT...:D

When someone give MISLEADING and FALSE information or to put it in simple terms Talks out of there ass then i will kindly correct them. Although sometimes Kindness appears not to work so it turns harsh to get the message across.

Bornwild: You are loosing an UPHILL BATTLE. Give it up already.

Wraith

13th September 2007, 09:05 AM

The boxer engine and the 5 sp manual are well suited for the track...and i will admit...the VXR and MPS are not...doesnt mean they can't keep up. just have to do a bit more work.

If you want to continue with your power and torque summary....a 2.3L turbo mazda engine puts out 190Kw and 380Nm....60Nm more than any other hot hatch...how does that work????

More cubes = more power is so Australian and is rather outdated.

The MPS uses S40 brakes from the volvo.

The XR5 is a awesome car on the track....handles very well and has a nice flat torque curve that only the 5cyl can produce....so that extra cylinder even tho it doesnt produce the Kw you want to see from a big 2.5L...makes a huge difference with you need to keep the power in a certain range around the track.

its not always about Kw and Nm....more about balance and handling. The new WRX doesnt deliver this and the reason has already been explained...its now a "general" car to suit all markets/ages not just young boy racers.

The STi....thats another story and another market.

One thing that annoys me is why..Japanese car companies are giving out figures on the cars on paper that are tamed down compared to what it really produces.

The new Evo and STi will have 225Kw on paper...like the MPS has 190Kw on paper....but i have heard that Japan has that gentlemans agreement and that they limit power.....but in real life the figures are much higher...some MPS have produced well more than the 190Kw stock...and every car is different. Insiders have said the power of the STi will be more like 240Kw...but they say lower figures on paper as its better to under estimate than over..as some companies have done...

Cheers
DUG74

Good to read a post in here that makes sense and has some hard 'facts' ! :clap:

Bit off topic, but as for power claims, even GMH is guilty of the above....ever since the release of the LS1 in the VT series 2, the SS models power claim has always been understated, even todays VE SS has alot more than 270kw ;)

entice

13th September 2007, 11:09 AM

but GMH is also Guilty of understating weight figures also....revisit the commodore VT...

The japanese "gentleman's agreement" went out the window when Nissan decided to break it. AFAIK, there is no longer a 206Kw "limit". I think Nissan broke it with either the Zed or the GTR.. cant recall exactly...

Wraith

13th September 2007, 11:30 AM

True that Entice.......

BUT Mitsubishi are still advertising the new Evo 10 as 206kw in their recently released brochure for the type in Japan - go figure ???

They must know that everybody else knows it's got at least 225-240kw lol......

rjastra

13th September 2007, 01:26 PM

I think people need to realised that when the manufacturers claim that their engine produces max torque from around 1800 rpm (like polos, gti golfs etc) it means that from 1800 rpm the torque is capped. They modulate the boost so it comes on early and stays flat to around 4500 then it drops of.

rechip a Polo Gti or Golf GTI (or a XR5 etc) and suddenly the peak torque moves to about 3000-3500rpm. It's not to say there is now less than there was before at 1800 just the artificial cap on boost has been removed.

So, if you see a standard turbo engine that claims a nice flat torque curve from 2000-4500 rpm you can be guaranteed that a little remapping will release a whole lot of power.

http://www.goapr.com.au/images/dy_18t_150.gif

I have no doubt that the new WRX will be just as easy to upgrade as the old one.

bornwild

13th September 2007, 01:43 PM

I have no doubt that the new WRX will be just as easy to upgrade as the old one.

.....and cheap :)

Wraith

13th September 2007, 05:25 PM

No doubt about that one boys ;)

Also APR do some awesome tunes for the VW's, if I had a Golf Gti they're the people I'd be seeing for sure :)

Geebs

13th September 2007, 06:06 PM

dug74

13th September 2007, 07:14 PM

rjastra

13th September 2007, 07:19 PM

Also APR do some awesome tunes for the VW's, if I had a Golf Gti they're the people I'd be seeing for sure :)

Thats what I have on the Polo ;) 330Nm in a car < 1200kg - giggle

bornwild

13th September 2007, 08:42 PM

So Bornwild....when are you gonna actually drive a new WRX so you can give us some REAL feedback.

Cheers
DUG74

For the moment being I'm working with my mate on his WRX 05 model. So far I've done for him a custom piping system and a massive front mount intercooler. We've also upgraded to a jap-spec racing turbo(I don't know any names I was just helping him put it all together)....meaning that peak torque and power are up high in the rev-range. At the moment it has a shitload of turbo-lag, fuel consumption is horrible and the car ain't going too well. In about 2 weeks time I'm going with him to tune it(the ECU is stock as rock).

We've also put in a 6 puck triple-plated clutch from clutchmasters and a matching flywheel. I'm also thinking of ordering a sequential gearbox for him from Holinger since he is serious about his driving and wants to make it a track machine. But that's far in the future since the gearbox alone is about $20k.

We're expecting about 200-220kw at all 4s. :) Only thing that will fuk it up is the 5sp gearbox.

PS. Also upgraded suspension with coil-overs and upgraded drilled and cut brakes with red-stuff pads and racing brake fluid.

EDIT: Might give the STi a spin once it comes out but I won't be going down to docklands just for this WRX....it's not my kind of car. I'd love to know what the 2.5l is like though.....

Shaun

13th September 2007, 09:42 PM

A blue one was parked outside work today...ppl @ work had mixed reactions...most like the front end...it aint too bad..i will admit that myself..

But when ppl looked @ the rear...they were disappointed...

One guy asked me....you sure thats a new WRX...arent they sedans...i laughed and said...not anymore.:angel:

rjastra...you are a man of knowledge and like myself..study more than the metal surrounding the engine, transmission and chassis.

Mazda recently had a recall on all MPS due to engine mount failure...while the upgrade was being done...they did a ECU upgrade which changed the boost to come on gradually like the Golf GTI and XR5...rather than hit 2800 and WHAM....you are in your seat. Its changed slightly....but boost delivery is better and you still can get a throw in the seat.

So Bornwild....when are you gonna actually drive a new WRX so you can give us some REAL feedback.

Cheers
DUG74

Its like anything Dug... The public hate change . The VE Commodore had mixed reactions from many people. I remember when i seen the VT for the 1st time i thought what have holden done. then it grew on me. VE on the Other hand i liked from the start. My dad thought it was ugly to start but now they have grown on him. I think in about 6 months people will have changed there opinon. Styling is out there but at least they have done something .

To Bornsoft : take Dug74 advice. go drive one . Until then dont talk shit about things..

skulless

13th September 2007, 09:42 PM

that is a shit load of mods for the wrx. must have cost your mate heaps. only wish i had that kind of resources

bornwild

13th September 2007, 09:48 PM

that is a shit load of mods for the wrx. must have cost your mate heaps. only wish i had that kind of resources

He's an idiot....he could have bought the STi(which is what I was telling him to do)....he's spent a lot of money on it. Put it this way, he has is priorities very wrong. Theres also another one of his mates with an R31 skyline which has about 350kW at the rear wheels.

Calibrated

13th September 2007, 10:58 PM

For the moment being I'm working with my mate on his WRX 05 model. So far I've done for him a custom piping system and a massive front mount intercooler. We've also upgraded to a jap-spec racing turbo(I don't know any names I was just helping him put it all together)....meaning that peak torque and power are up high in the rev-range. At the moment it has a shitload of turbo-lag, fuel consumption is horrible and the car ain't going too well. In about 2 weeks time I'm going with him to tune it(the ECU is stock as rock).

We've also put in a 6 puck triple-plated clutch from clutchmasters and a matching flywheel. I'm also thinking of ordering a sequential gearbox for him from Holinger since he is serious about his driving and wants to make it a track machine. But that's far in the future since the gearbox alone is about $20k.

We're expecting about 200-220kw at all 4s. :) Only thing that will fuk it up is the 5sp gearbox.

PS. Also upgraded suspension with coil-overs and upgraded drilled and cut brakes with red-stuff pads and racing brake fluid.

EDIT: Might give the STi a spin once it comes out but I won't be going down to docklands just for this WRX....it's not my kind of car. I'd love to know what the 2.5l is like though.....
just a few Q's on the above.

A: if you are upgrading all of this, how can you NOT pay attention to what turbo you are using????

B: Only 220kw's expected? thats quite low for the mods, i know of guys in SA with less or similar mods, pushing much more power than that.

C: Your mate has a my05 right? then why do you say you would love to know what the 2.5l is like??? the my05 IS a 2.5l. and afaik they havent made extensive changes to the new model.

Vectracious

13th September 2007, 11:14 PM

the my05 IS a 2.5l. and afaik they havent made extensive changes to the new model.

No it isn't. MY06 is a 2.5L, the 05 still had the 2.0L.

PaulyJ

13th September 2007, 11:21 PM

Only MY06 onwards is 2.5L.

entice

14th September 2007, 03:32 AM

re the friend with the modded WRX.

Moron. should just cut his losses, return it to stock, sell it, and buy an STI

1. the intercooler alone is enough to create the lag he's experiencing
2. I am suprised teh car will start let alone run with the stock ecu and those mods
3. consider an m800 motec or an autronics ecu. Anti-lag is also a possibility
4. my Sti with AVCr and "slight" exhaust mods had 200Kw at all paws..on 98 ron. it also had a very strong 6spd and brembos
5. consider a dog box instead of the hollinger, and pocket the 15K difference, but even so, a stock sti box should be more than sufficient

as a side note, a friend of mine has an 04 Sti, 2.0L (considering a 2.7Jun motor at the moment). It has bolt on mods, including: fuel rail, injectors, PE20 turbo, zerospeed front mount and autronic management with anti-lag (it reads boost figures in neutral!). It only pumps out 250odd Kw's at the paws (all 4), but it also runs more efficiently and more economical than the standard car! Even so, with the antilag, very very few things on the road out there will come anywhere near this thing. It is, however, tuned for 100ron. Power comes on early, and strong.. can't wait to drive it as a 2.7!!!

another friend has an 06 STI Spec C. twin scroll in that one... amazing power delivery. AVCR and custom map are the only mods. Again, a 2.0L with awesome power. Power comes on even earlier than the other car, and feels silky smooth. Also tuned for 100Ron.. being an ex-pat in Japan is a wonderful thing.. he was considering this car, a 22B, or a lotus elise/exige.....

I guess to each their own, but I disagree in any blanket statement of the subaru boxer motor. It is (at least in 2.0L guise) a tried and tested formula, an excellent out of the box package that is very very tunable with little resources and funds. The potential of the 2.5 is still in my opinion to be fully realised (and possibly wont until JDM adopts it mainstream), and am disappointed that the ADM STI dropped the fully forged guts of the 2.0L for the hypereutectic (???grammar??) ones in the 2.5L. For that reason alone, I know a whole heap of track guys (and for the development knowledge already out there) prefer the 2.0 to the 2.5. But, I guess this information is STI specific, and was the case a year ago. A whole lot can change in that time...

Calibrated

14th September 2007, 06:59 AM

No it isn't. MY06 is a 2.5L, the 05 still had the 2.0L.

oh, my bad:o
Apologies.

rjastra

14th September 2007, 08:13 AM

I saw a 1.6L MX5 (15+ yr old) pull 180kw at the rear wheels a week ago. Home made turbo conversion!

Wraith

14th September 2007, 09:08 AM

I saw one in the flesh today. They have a red one on display at the domestic terminal at Sydney Airport.

They actually don't look too bad in the flesh and im sure it won't take long at all to grow on people.....

This seems to be the general consensus......

No doubt then that the Sti will look even better, as well as having super performance, I'm definitely looking forward to test driving this babe along with the Evo 10 when they finally arrive :)

btm

14th September 2007, 10:22 AM

I saw a 1.6L MX5 (15+ yr old) pull 180kw at the rear wheels a week ago. Home made turbo conversion!

would fly considering it probabaly only weighs about 800kgs

bornwild

14th September 2007, 01:04 PM

Don't know, I reckon 220kW at the wheels is pretty decent if you ask me...going from stock 110-120kW at the wheels. And according to him the turbo is designed to provide optimum torque. So my guess would be around 500-600Nm of torque for his car.

But anyhow, I don't know the model of the turbo cause I just saw it the day we were putting it on....but yeah....STi much better value than tuning a WRX....

PS. and yeah all the mods were pretty much bolt-on except the cooling set-up. And I agree with you entice about the 2.0l Subaru boxer....but I think completely different things of the 2.5l.

skulless

14th September 2007, 02:34 PM

holy cow, out of topic, who has the fastest opel in this forum? i'm very keen to know :)

btm

14th September 2007, 02:45 PM

i believe its 'aussie in london' - tuned VXR

Wraith

14th September 2007, 02:51 PM

holy cow, out of topic, who has the fastest opel in this forum? i'm very keen to know :)

That would be Tony 'Mr Corsa' with his 230kw atw or something like that little Corsa.....

Tfer

14th September 2007, 03:10 PM

I am really starting to warm to the WRX like the ones in the pictures Wraith has been posting..... thanks Wraith for the picutres :cool:

Gee whiz there is a lot of posturing around in this thread...... classic :D

Wraith

14th September 2007, 03:35 PM

LOL, just skip by those and enjoy the rest........:)

But yes I too, for 1st time am very enthusiastic about the Wrx - never been the case in the past, these new ones ie: Sti looks very nice :)

Tfer

14th September 2007, 03:41 PM

LOL, just skip by those and enjoy the rest........:)

But yes I too, for 1st time am very enthusiastic about the Wrx - never been the case in the past, these new ones ie: Sti looks very nice :)

Yep... slightly different to the norm in my opinion.... probably this is why I like the Volvo C30 too :D

Wraith

14th September 2007, 03:50 PM

The Volvo C30 is another very nice car.

I even liked the older C70...

rusole21

14th September 2007, 03:50 PM

fantastic!!! i love opelaus!!! bornwild- you are so full of crap it blows my mind!! my mates building a wrx with 220kw and i made the intercooler and im full knowledgable about everything crap is so draining!!! get a life and instead of talking crap, go and acctually do the stuff you think you can do. much more rewarding than being laughed at on a forum.

holinger gearbox. HAHAHAHAHA yeah i was gonna buy him one. GOLD!!!

as for the 2.5 l boxer motor mate. shut up. you have 0 idea as you rightfully know.

ZC_74

14th September 2007, 05:04 PM

My sister has just bought one. It's her first "brand new" car. One of her comments....I wanted something to look cool in.:doh:

She should have bought a Vectra or VXR

rjastra

14th September 2007, 05:46 PM

My sister has just bought one. It's her first "brand new" car. One of her comments....I wanted something to look cool in.:doh:

She should have bought a Vectra or VXR

What did she buy?

ZC_74

14th September 2007, 05:54 PM

Sorry thought that was obvious. New Black WRX

Shaun

14th September 2007, 09:43 PM

holy cow, out of topic, who has the fastest opel in this forum? i'm very keen to know :)

It would be a Toss up between Aussie's VXR and Lampshades Wifes VXR. But then again there is the dark horse Astra F owned By Tyron.(from memory thats his name)

dug74

15th September 2007, 12:50 AM

That would be Tony 'Mr Corsa' with his 230kw atw or something like that little Corsa.....

Mr Corsa would be the fastest opel...as power to weight...he wins hands down with 0 - 100 and 1/4 mile.

As for the most POWER...well maybe Aussie in londons VXR.

Cheers
DUG74

OPC

15th September 2007, 04:05 AM

But then again there is the dark horse Astra F owned By Tyrone.(from memory thats his name)

hahaha Tyrone likes to talk about people behind their backs... but doesn't realise the people he talks to has actually built the engine for the guy he is talking about... hahahaha

HUB dynos dont really give the proper power readout anyway...

hang on a sec... what about cacca's astra ?
yeah yeah its not even a Z20LET engine is it... so what... its an astra shell

Shaun

15th September 2007, 12:26 PM

Mr Corsa would be the fastest opel...as power to weight...he wins hands down with 0 - 100 and 1/4 mile.

As for the most POWER...well maybe Aussie in londons VXR.

Cheers
DUG74

I forgot about tonys car... But has it ran a 1/4 mile time or a Lap time yet?

Wraith

16th September 2007, 07:15 PM

My sister has just bought one. It's her first "brand new" car. One of her comments....I wanted something to look cool in.:doh:

She should have bought a Vectra or VXR

Ah well, a case of each to their own :)

It does look much better in the flesh though ;)

edit: here's a pic of a black one, very nice front and sides.....

http://i9.tinypic.com/6coo5du.jpg

CORZZA

17th September 2007, 12:06 AM

went and saw the wrx in the flesh yesterday and seriously its interior is just the same as they ahve always been. outside well the rear is not my cup of tea at all!It looks like a blady holden viva!

Calibrated

17th September 2007, 12:24 AM

went and saw the wrx in the flesh yesterday and seriously its interior is just the same as they ahve always been. outside well the rear is not my cup of tea at all!It looks like a blady holden viva!
well, actually rear looks like its off the Tribeca (not that that helps:p)

but im growing fond of it. kind of a sleeper status, if you didnt know what it was...:D:D:D

Wraith

17th September 2007, 01:25 PM

Most would have seen those spy shots of that grey/black Sti mule at the Nurburgring, here's a couple of vids of it in action.......enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDsdGgXZRQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnaSTB-VBqE

Wraith

17th September 2007, 03:37 PM

Here are some larger and clearer pics of which I've already posted on previous pages.

It's clear to see that the JDM version is a 2.0ltr 300hp (225kw) machine...

From U.S forums I've read their 2.5ltr version will have the same tume as the Sti Forrester which is 330hp (243kw), ADM should be similar....

Looks good in the titanium grey and has a very strong resemblance to the Mazda 3 hatches :)

http://i18.tinypic.com/5ytdymp.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/6h7pz0m.jpg

http://i19.tinypic.com/52op4ja.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/4kfbcau.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/63c6kj8.jpg

btm

17th September 2007, 03:43 PM

those pics look hot!

Calibrated

17th September 2007, 03:47 PM

Cant wait for a set of aftermarket tail lights to appear!

It looks TIGHT!!

btm

17th September 2007, 03:48 PM

Cant wait for a set of aftermarket tail lights to appear!
what's wrong with the ones on it now?? i dont mind them either

Calibrated

17th September 2007, 03:53 PM

what's wrong with the ones on it now?? i dont mind them either
yeah i dont mind them, but maybe the regular red ones will be more appealing?

entice

17th September 2007, 03:57 PM

hrmm.. and a camber kit for the rear....

btm

17th September 2007, 04:00 PM

yeah i dont mind them, but maybe the regular red ones will be more appealing?

i like the white ones on that colour

would be interesting to see what they looked like on a red or blue one though

rjastra

17th September 2007, 04:05 PM

hrmm.. and a camber kit for the rear....

I would have thought that was a Photoshop option. "Add neg camber to photoshopped car image" :)

reedaaron

17th September 2007, 04:43 PM

the pics of that sti that wraith just posted i actually like the tail lights... the first pics that were posted they looked shit but that looks hot as...

reedaaron

17th September 2007, 04:52 PM

for some reason they just seem to fit in better on the sti and don't stand out like dogs balls...

Wraith

17th September 2007, 05:20 PM

It does look hot dosn't it guys, I thought you'd like it :)

It looks very nice in white too......

The tail lights look better in those pics because of the cars colour - titanium grey, no doubt aftermarkets of different design and colour will become available, I don't think you'll have one bit a problem with aftermarket gear on these cars as we do with our Opels !!!

Calibrated, not only is it tight, it's lightweight as well - reported kerb weight is 1490kg, that means it's going to easily be the best performing Sti yet !!!

It sure is shaping up to be much better than originally thought and it'll 'probably' be quicker than the new Evo 10 in a straight line....

We'll have to wait n see :)

btm

18th September 2007, 11:07 AM

It sure is shaping up to be much better than originally thought and it'll 'probably' be quicker than the new Evo 10 in a straight line....
i think i'm still more of a fan of the lines and angles on the Evo at the moment...

Wraith

18th September 2007, 01:43 PM

i think i'm still more of a fan of the lines and angles on the Evo at the moment...

Yep, so am I :)

I've decided my next everyday ride has to be a 4 door sedan or 5 door hatch - I'll leave the less practicle 2 door coupe and convertible bridgade for weekend/leasure driving ;)

So far those 2 (Evo 10 and new Sti) are at the top of my list....MPS 3 is a close 3rd ;)

'If ' I do eventually decide to go with one or the other of those first 2 choices, it'll come down to pricing as the main factor - Sti's looking the better of the 2 at this stage on that front :)

bornwild

18th September 2007, 06:36 PM

Don't STis and Evos cost the same?

Wraith

18th September 2007, 10:31 PM

Current models of the 2 yes, but it's the 1st time in the Aust. market that - that's been the case ! ie: current Sti and Evo 9

Right up until the Evo 8, the Evos were always the more expensive and in some models by a substancial margin !

If you follow the info that's out there so far on these 2 new models, it looks definite that the new Evo will again be the much more expensive of the 2, makes sense as it is a total new everything ground up car, whereas the Wrx's are using the same engine and drivetrain as the outgoing models, with some revisions and tweaks.

We'll know eventually - just have to wait till they're finally released ;)

bornwild

18th September 2007, 11:24 PM

I doubt the EVO will be more expensive than the STi....wasn't the EVO more expensive due to some Mitsubishi/Japan/Tax issues or something of the sorts??

I'm pretty sure the EVO will be the same price if not cheaper.....they can't justify an increase in price by saying 'it's a whole new car'....doesn't work like that.

Wraith

19th September 2007, 09:39 AM

We'll have to wait and see, nothings certain at this stage....

In the U.S the 2 have always be priced similarily, but like I said Mitsubishi Australia has only done this with the current Evo 9.

The new Evo 10 full spec with SST is rumoured as going to be priced at nearly 80k on road - with the basic spec 5 spd at between 65-70k.

Hopefully it'll be much less than that, but even at those prices reports suggest that the initial batch will be all presold, even before they arrive in the country - there's a group buy happening on the OzEvo forum I'm a member of ATM and there are no fewer than a dozen people interested !

It's the 1st time I've ever seen a group buy for an entire car lol, we normally just do odd bits n pieces group buys.....

The new Sti will not offer an SST type trans, only the standard 6spd trans.

I doubt it'll exceed a 65k on road cost....

It also appears to be a perfectly sized 5 door hatch (for me anyways) I don't want anything too big, otherwise I would've purchased a VE SS !!!!

I'm a member of a U.S Evo 10 forum and they've already got variants of this new model Lancer on the roads, some of those guys have described the new Lancers as 'boats' ie: getting a bit on the large side and too heavy ??

The reported weight of the Evo 10 is between 1540kg-1600kg depending on mechanical fit out.

I'll stay tuned and see what else comes up :)

blueraven

19th September 2007, 02:56 PM

We'll have to wait and see, nothings certain at this stage....
The new Evo 10 full spec with SST is rumoured as going to be priced at nearly 80k on road - with the basic spec 5 spd at between 65-70k.

The reported weight of the Evo 10 is between 1540kg-1600kg depending on mechanical fit out.

:( :( :( :(

Wraith

19th September 2007, 03:35 PM

Well hopefully Nik, when we get confirmed pricing those faces will change to this :D :D :D :D

We can only hope :pray:

btm

19th September 2007, 03:39 PM

where are they both built??

Wraith

19th September 2007, 04:18 PM

As far as I know in Japan.....

I 'think' Mitsubishi Australia might get invloved in 'our' spec ralliart Lancer variant as is Mitsubishi in the U.S.

And as in the past the FQ versions of the Evo 10 will be built by Mitsubishi U.K.

All new Lancers and Evos will have the 2.0ltr MIVEC engine.

The JDM Sti's will have the 2.0ltr boxer, the U.S. market and ADM will have the 2.5ltr boxer.

bornwild

19th September 2007, 09:30 PM

1600kg for the EVO......that's ridiculous........what are they thinking?!

Wraith

20th September 2007, 11:27 AM

That's not confirmed yet Bornwild, just info that's around ATM......

I don't think it'll be any less than 1520kg though, remember it's grown in size and Mitsubishi's putting alot more build quality into it and also more kit fit out, just to please us Europeans and European car lovers :D

Don't despair though, it'll still have shattering performance, better than any previous Evo and most other cars on the road, that's the bottom line isn't it ;)

bornwild

20th September 2007, 12:30 PM

Yeah but I want an athlete car....not a bodybuilder car :( hehehe

rusole21

20th September 2007, 12:39 PM

Yeah but I want an athlete car....not a bodybuilder car :( hehehe
what does that mean? the evo will kill everything in its path even tho it weighs 15-1600kg. but does that weight mean its fat?

Wraith

20th September 2007, 12:41 PM

LOL :D Bornwild, Man you make me laugh.......

MatsHolden

20th September 2007, 01:31 PM

Who cares how much it weighs if it out performs its predecessor.

Wraith

20th September 2007, 01:55 PM

Who cares how much it weighs if it out performs its predecessor.

---- Ditto :)

bornwild

20th September 2007, 04:00 PM

Who cares how much it weighs if it out performs its predecessor.

I care. I don't appreciate under-engineered products. Being heavier than it's predecessor is under-engineering.

The new Mazda2 is an engineering work of art....amongst cars.

And if the new Evo costs $80k.....BMW 335i Coupe here we come.:rolleyes:

JohnBu

20th September 2007, 04:05 PM

And if the new Evo costs $80k.....BMW 335i Coupe here we come.:rolleyes:

good luck driving away in a new 335 for less than $50k over the evo.

having driven the 335i and Evo IX, there is no comparison performance wise, the X will broaden that gap.

bornwild

20th September 2007, 04:10 PM

My guess is the 335i is quicker around the track.

Well, surely if I can afford an $80k car I can afford a $150k car as well.....

Apex

20th September 2007, 04:34 PM

I care. I don't appreciate under-engineered products. Being heavier than it's predecessor is under-engineering.

The new Mazda2 is an engineering work of art....amongst cars.

And if the new Evo costs $80k.....BMW 335i Coupe here we come.:rolleyes:

Take into account the 9 only had 2 airbags and the 10 will have 6 as well as a whole host of other modern age goodie that the 9 simply couldn’t offer as well as the fact the 10 is a bigger car.

EVO-X FTW

bornwild

20th September 2007, 06:04 PM

Take into account the 9 only had 2 airbags and the 10 will have 6 as well as a whole host of other modern age goodie that the 9 simply couldn’t offer as well as the fact the 10 is a bigger car.

EVO-X FTW

The new Mazda2 has a cd stacker, a couple more airbags, better materials, is a larger car and is still 60kg lighter than it's predecessor!
:)

I miss the good old days of 800-900kg cars where 2.0l engines were sufficient to make them supercars almost!

Ultimate EVO of all time = Evo6 Makinen edition.

206kW, 373Nm, 1280kg.....now tell me if the new EVO11 can outperform this?....Not a chance.

xplosv57

20th September 2007, 06:28 PM

Then buy the Mazda 2......................... i'd still pick the EVO!!!!!!!!!!

rjastra

21st September 2007, 09:20 AM

There is every chance that the STi could be significantly lighter than the upcoming EvoX

Not to mention the EvoX comes with a 5 speed (wtf?) manual unless you stump up for the 6 speed DSG unit.

Now... the MAzda 2. Much of the weigh loss was actually from making it a SMALLER car. Both headroom, rear seat space and luggage space have dropped. And the rear seats no longer slide/fold like the old model. The fact was that the old Mazda 2 was at the weightier end of the class so the new one is in the middle of the class. Smoke and mirrors. ;)

Equipment wise i think you will find the base model hasn't picked up that much equipment at all. Side airbags and CD stacker are not standard on the base model.

MatsHolden

21st September 2007, 09:50 AM

bornwild

21st September 2007, 09:52 AM

Rjastra - you ain't helping my argument here :P

Mat - I already have, they said they'll postpone the release until I had a look at it...lawl :D

Wraith

21st September 2007, 11:29 AM

Bornwild 335i costs 1 and 1/2 times as much as the Evo X even at 80k, it's a nice car, but as mentiond above the Evo will kill it, in a straight line AND 'especially' on the track ! ;) if you make it a loose surface or wet track, the Beemer won't even see the Evo in front of it :)

I don't think there's any other car out there, that will match or be able to do what the new Evo X will be able to do on a track !

New Mazda 2 looks fantastic, if I remember correctly, most people here except myself and a few others bagged it when it was first shown on a thread about a month or so ago..... !

As for newer models being lighter than their predecessors, as I've already mentioned here, the new Sti will be lighter than the outgoing model :)

If power figures released are reliable for this machine at 243kw and 450nm (ie: for the 2.5ltr boxer engined variants) then in a straight line it should topple even the new X......the claim is 0-100km/h in 4.6sec.

It's game on, can't wait to see what happens :)

Wraith

21st September 2007, 01:21 PM

Latest on '08 Wrx STI........Looking good :)

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/09/2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-first.html

I've also read on Sti forums that there 'might' be a 3 door STI hatch version for '09.......

Wraith

21st September 2007, 01:33 PM

More Nurburgring shots of new STI with less camo..........me likey ALOT :D

http://i9.tinypic.com/316maeu.jpg

http://i18.tinypic.com/4p2xml5.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/63idjjq.jpg

blueraven

21st September 2007, 01:37 PM

Its growings on me, but i think the evo x still looks shitloads better. Price will prolly end up deciding the winner tho...provided performance is comparable :)

btm

21st September 2007, 01:42 PM

the front and sides look aggressive... but the rear spoils it a bit

bornwild

21st September 2007, 05:15 PM

How much better does that new impreza look with a wider body? :)

Shaun

24th September 2007, 01:57 AM

I care. I don't appreciate under-engineered products. Being heavier than it's predecessor is under-engineering.

The new Mazda2 is an engineering work of art....amongst cars.

And if the new Evo costs $80k.....BMW 335i Coupe here we come.:rolleyes:

When the saftey features were increased the weight would go up. How the **** do you get thats UNDER - ENGINEERING fool....

How about go sit in the corner for a week and think long and hard before posting...

rusole21

27th September 2007, 03:08 PM

thanks for posting those pics wraith!! i am loving the new look sti!!

mind you i have loved the 06-07 pig sti since new anyway.

remember guys. wise men follow the stars. youll all be drivin subarus if you where wise. lol:D :D

bornwild

27th September 2007, 03:26 PM

When the saftey features were increased the weight would go up. How the **** do you get thats UNDER - ENGINEERING fool....

How about go sit in the corner for a week and think long and hard before posting...

Listen Shaun, just stop commenting on my posts. You're making more of an idiot of yourself than you already are.

I am an engineer, I know what's what...you don't......simple as that.

Wraith

27th September 2007, 04:16 PM

I'd better post some more nice pics to change the mood here - don't want this thread to be locked....

rusole 21 your welcome, I'm loving it too, both the Sti and new Evo 10 :)

Very hard choice between the 2, can't wait to examine them in the flesh and take each one for a thourough test drive.....

There is alot of truth in your statement, either one of those Japanese cars are superior machines indeed and you would be making a wise decision, all things considered, if you decided to own one ;)

blueraven

27th September 2007, 04:37 PM

blueraven

27th September 2007, 04:39 PM

Listen Shaun, just stop commenting on my posts. You're making more of an idiot of yourself than you already are.
.

Pretty tired of it myself, and i am not even the one being attacked. I dont take sides, so why dont you guys just do what most of us do, and just look at the screen, think to yourself "cockhead" and move on.

rusole21

27th September 2007, 05:11 PM

i dont know if any of yous have taken the new wrx for a drive yet but i did last week. it is deffinitely smooter and stuff but i really didnt enjoy myself as much as i thought i should. understeers thru corners and then with the tc and stability control brakes on different rear wheels tryin to pull you round. was very clever and i think alot safer but with that alot more dul. even the salesman agreed with me when sayin the 06 is a better drivers car.

blueraven

27th September 2007, 05:15 PM

thats interesting..most reports i have read have said it has less understeer that the last model...

although all of them say the previous model was a better drivers car. WRX has been watered down a bit to suit a larger market, but i would say the STI will be even more focused..hopefully :)

Wraith

27th September 2007, 05:15 PM

sti and evo have always been 99% vs 100%...swapping back and forth a couple times.

this time the real winner will be whatever is cheaper, and looks like it will be the sti (since the new wrx is less than 440k..i cant see them selling the nes sti for much more then 60k if that!!)

I think your right BR ;)

Rusole21 don't worry about the basic Wrx, the Sti will be the one that won't dissapoint...unfortunately at a cost, but aint it always the case :)

entice

27th September 2007, 05:17 PM

STI will have the front and centre LSD to help counteract that..

The STI's are a completely diffewrent animal to the WRX's.. there is a hell of a lot more difference in teh drivetrain than what one would assume from teh price disparity.

Eg, not many STI drivers would have locked up the front and centre in pulling them thru a corner... I know in teh past, when pushing hard thru a corner (in my albeit modified and lowered STI) the front would wash wide, teh rear would then follow and it would drift, and the old faithful and reliable front end would lock up, and follow the course at which you'd pilot it to.. ie, a totally different way to drive.. u just have to wait for that initial front end understeer, then drift, and then almost an oversteer!
Lots of fun!

Wraith

27th September 2007, 10:16 PM

You are correct Entice !

Guys I saw a new Wrx tonight, silver one and cruised along side it on the Calder Freeway, it was just beginning to get dark and he had the lights fired up, the rears don't look too bad at all in real life, the LED's in them look cool !

The shape of the car is very nice and clean and all the features like the side crease and bonnet scoop are more pronouned than in any of the pics - the Sti should look amazing......

The O/A size of the car is just right IMO, it's not too big or too small, despite the initial negativity with this new design, I personally think Subaru are on a good wicket with the new Impreza....

poita

27th September 2007, 10:53 PM

had a look in subaru tonight at the the suby, it was just an RS.
im lovin the front end, still not sold on the rear. overall im likin em a lot. cant wait to see an sti gettin round

CJL

28th September 2007, 01:01 AM

I took one for a test drive a couple weeks back, if only insurance wasnt so difficult to get or expensive for under 25 year olds i would get one in a flash. Bah MPS 3 is shit not to mention overpriced i went to the mazda performance day at calder park a while back its great on the straights thats about it. But in the end it is personal preference.

Old man is picking his wrx up tomorrow, they are defiantly better in person the hype and pictures to begin with made them look pretty ugly i reckon.

Wraith

28th September 2007, 10:53 AM

Agree, when I saw that silver one last night, I was impressed with how good and neat it looked in the metal, much better than in any of the pics...

Can't wait to check out the Evo 10 and new Sti in the metal, they should both be very impressive.

Interesting now with this new Wrx as to how it'll affect MPS 3 sales ??? it's cheaper, looks very similar from some angles and definitely is the better sports car, especially considering the upgrade potential it has and of course the AWD advantage.

IMHO I think it'll definitely take some sales away from the MPS 3.....

rjastra

28th September 2007, 11:00 AM

Interesting now with this new Wrx as to how it'll affect MPS 3 sales ??? it's cheaper, looks very similar from some angles and definitely is the better sports car, especially considering the upgrade potential it has and of course the AWD advantage.

IMHO I think it'll definitely take some sales away from the MPS 3.....

WHeels has a test of the WRX vs a Commodore SS (strange but true). They agree that the WRX has become softer. A bit too soft it seems. Squishy suspension (too little rebound) and below average steering feel. The engine now has a very linear power delivery. Can barely detect the old wrx warble.

Interestingly, the WRX only used 10% less fuel over the test than the 6L SS commodore!

Best to wait to see what a modded one is like.

Wraith

28th September 2007, 11:41 AM

WHeels has a test of the WRX vs a Commodore SS (strange but true). They agree that the WRX has become softer. A bit too soft it seems. Squishy suspension (too little rebound) and below average steering feel. The engine now has a very linear power delivery. Can barely detect the old wrx warble.

Interestingly, the WRX only used 10% less fuel over the test than the 6L SS commodore!

Best to wait to see what a modded one is like.

Yes true, if desired all the above can be fixed up/changed with mods, but Subaru did intensionally make the car that way, it'll now appeal to a much broader, older and mature buying market, not just the young street clowns err hoons err boy racers of the past :)

I'm not surprised about the fuel consumption, I've stated it lots of times here, having owned both 4 pot turbos and heaps of V8''s (including an LS1 powered HSV) the fuel burn on the large V8's is not as bad as people might think !

If you measure it in specific terms, the four pot turbos are absolute guzzlers in comparison to newer large displacement V8's even without DOD....

I have a good friend with an MPS 3 and the average fuel consumption on that car is very similar to what my 1720kg 250kw Auto 5.7ltr LS1 V8 consumed !

Vectracious

28th September 2007, 12:22 PM

If you measure it in specific terms, the four pot turbos are absolute guzzlers in comparison to newer large displacement V8's even without DOD....

Completely agree. With a light right foot, they are fair, but the minute you start pushing hard, consumption is f*cking disgusting for a 4pot.

Shut up all the diesel people.... :p :D

rusole21

28th September 2007, 03:43 PM

my foz gt isnt to bad on consumtion. bout 10.5l/100 around town. not bad seein the size and power. good thing is that once tuned they are more fuel efficient. tax reture has come back so now im doin exhaust, brakes, and gettin a verso tune to run 16psi. cant wait.

the new wrx is not nearly what it used to be. which has upsides but also alot of down sides. loss of 4 pot brakes is dissapointing, even tho the sliding 2 pots are very very good due to the bigger disks. also going for the abs manifold has helped in smoother intakes but cant handle the same amounts of boost. also the differnt format of the intercooler has me wonderin. but with time things change.

Wraith

30th September 2007, 05:22 PM

Anybody see the new Impreza TV add yet ?? they make it look pretty, even the tail lights look ok :)

CJL

30th September 2007, 09:23 PM

Interesting now with this new Wrx as to how it'll affect MPS 3 sales ??? it's cheaper, looks very similar from some angles and definitely is the better sports car, especially considering the upgrade potential it has and of course the AWD advantage.

IMHO I think it'll definitely take some sales away from the MPS 3.....

The rumor that i have heard from a Mazda dealer based in Melbourne is the MPS 3's haven't nearly reached the expected amount of sales predicted. I don't know how you could compare them apart from the hatch aspect. I have driven the MPS 3 on a track and on the roads, it was pathetic, great in the straights and like a P&O cruise ship through the corners. IMHO

dug74

30th September 2007, 10:38 PM

The rumor that i have heard from a Mazda dealer based in Melbourne is the MPS 3's haven't nearly reached the expected amount of sales predicted. I don't know how you could compare them apart from the hatch aspect. I have driven the MPS 3 on a track and on the roads, it was pathetic, great in the straights and like a P&O cruise ship through the corners. IMHO

Your obviously an inexperienced driver...or you dont know how to use the potential of the MPS...its a car you have to LEARN to drive.

I have driven my car on the track and straight....handles like a dream.

As for the sales figures....they sold 1200 MPS last year Australia wide...thats more than the XR5 and VXR put together..and was only beaten by the Golf GTI in hot hatch sales.

And if you wanna know what a P&O cruise ship is...drive the new WRX on the track...im sure you have seen the video.. MPS Vs WRX.. with the DSC light constantly on the WRX and it taking out the cones on the slalom.

Thankyou for the amusement....its great to see that ppl who drive a car for 15 mins can judge the true potential...own it for 9 months and get back to me.

Now...back to the WRX

Cheers
DUG74

Vectracious

30th September 2007, 10:58 PM

And if you wanna know what a P&O cruise ship is...drive the new WRX on the track...im sure you have seen the video.. MPS Vs WRX.. with the DSC light constantly on the WRX and it taking out the cones on the slalom.

Was this the Edmunds Inside Line video - the guy was a tosser - red stitching on the MPS's seats gives it a "flamboyant" interior (only difference I could tell between the two :p )

However, on a serious note, watching that video made me cringe, the amount the 08 WRX rolled around and the huge squat it did on take off is pretty horrific. They've definately softened it up....

CJL

30th September 2007, 10:59 PM

Your obviously an inexperienced driver...or you dont know how to use the potential of the MPS...its a car you have to LEARN to drive.

I have driven my car on the track and straight....handles like a dream.

As for the sales figures....they sold 1200 MPS last year Australia wide...thats more than the XR5 and VXR put together..and was only beaten by the Golf GTI in hot hatch sales.

And if you wanna know what a P&O cruise ship is...drive the new WRX on the track...im sure you have seen the video.. MPS Vs WRX.. with the DSC light constantly on the WRX and it taking out the cones on the slalom.

Thankyou for the amusement....its great to see that ppl who drive a car for 15 mins can judge the true potential...own it for 9 months and get back to me.

Now...back to the WRX

Cheers
DUG74

Really that’s alright sales figures, i thought the xr5 was killing it. It is very rare that if you’re looking to purchase a car they are going to give you the car for a week to try before you buy (well it hasn't happened to me for the past 3 cars I have bought). So in most cases you only have the so called 15 minutes to make your decision and form your own opinion based on the experience you had during the test drive.

But hey I guess opinions are a bitch.

Now in saying that........Back to the WRX

dug74

1st October 2007, 12:25 AM

XR5 sales....hmm you have order 1...i know..i was a potential XR5 owner..till they told me it was a 4 month wait..

The XR5 is supposedly an *exclusive* car and as such not many are being sold...

I guess it depends on which state your in...but in know in QLD..there are MPS owners everywhere...i see at least 5 different ones everyday..

Anyways...whichever hot hatch you buy....do you seriously think the ppl buying them are gonna drive them to full potential on the track etc..like they test them...NO..

Subaru may have done the wrong thing by performance owners....but its company who need sales to stay afloat..so *broading* sales by making the car a little soft in susp...and bland in looks appeals to more ppl = more sales....Toyota is a great example..BLAND and BORING...yet they sell like no tomorrow.

If you noticed....Toyota have a hand in Subaru..and it shows.

I totally agree about the 15 minutes determines sales..which is why I think the WRX will sell well...like the XR5...the power delivery is smoother and not a *Wild Child* like the MPS..which can shock a few drivers when they first hit the gas.

Cheers
DUG74

OPC

1st October 2007, 02:22 AM

WRX sux ok... enuf said

Shaun

1st October 2007, 11:05 AM

Dug you forget to mention though the VXR and the XR5 Turbo are low import models . Both HSV and Ford are given a set amount of stock due to the demand in Europe for both models.

The Sales of the MPS 3 are impressive. Considering its a Niche Market thats growing and tends to be dominated by the European Hot Hatches in the Market. I do remember saying some months ago that the MPS could be the car to knock the GTi Golf off the top spot and if sale continue to grow i believe it will do that by next year. As the golf is now ageing and and drawing closer to its peak and will be replaced in the next two years i believe.

Shaun

1st October 2007, 11:14 AM

Anyways...whichever hot hatch you buy....do you seriously think the ppl buying them are gonna drive them to full potential on the track etc..like they test them...NO..

Cheers
DUG74

Totally agree with you there. I have had my VXR for 4 months now and only thing i have considered doing remotely close to a track day is a advanced drivers course.

Wraith

1st October 2007, 01:08 PM

I havn't test driven the new Wrx yet, don't really want to, I'm more interested in the new Sti and Evo 10, but from what we know about it so far it sounds like it's set up very well to be a very good everyday driven vehicle.

I have test driven the MPS 3 and a good friend of mine has one, so I also get to ride shot gun in one every now and then, I love it....... :) quite honestly I really don't know where all the 'bland' styling comments are comming from, in my eyes it stands out enough from the rest of the Mazda 3 bridgade, that bulgier bonnet and different wheels stick out like a sore thumb.....IMHO the Golf Gti looks plain and bland.

Speaking for myself, given the choice of new Wrx vs MPS 3 vs Golf Gti I'd have the MPS 3, it handles well enough for the street and O/A, everything about it is very good IMO. :)

If I'm not able to stretch the budget for the Evo 10 or new Sti, it'll be the MPS 3 I'll be taking another look at.....by then the new model might have arrived, hopefully it'll be as good an update as the new Mazda 6 :)

dug74

1st October 2007, 09:43 PM

Totally agree with you there. I have had my VXR for 4 months now and only thing i have considered doing remotely close to a track day is a advanced drivers course.

Already done that...Mazda provide that FREE to owners of MPS3, MPS6, MX5, RX8 and SP23 owners...

They have a Stage 2 advanced drivers training and track training.

I guess...we are bias for what we own and love....so if there are any new WRX owners reading this....i think the car is soft and visually unappealing, but if you like it...thats all that matters.

Cheers
DUG74

bornwild

1st October 2007, 10:06 PM

WRX sux ok... enuf said

+1........

kaoshunter

1st October 2007, 10:24 PM

+2..........

Vectracious

1st October 2007, 11:07 PM

Speaking for myself, given the choice of new Wrx vs MPS 3 vs Golf Gti I'd have the MPS 3, it handles well enough for the street and O/A, everything about it is very good IMO. :)

I'd go the MPS3 or the Golf. Or a Mazda 6 MPS. As much as I love my 05, I wouldn't buy one again... I think I'm just getting old... :boohoo:

rjastra

1st October 2007, 11:18 PM

Shaun

1st October 2007, 11:58 PM

Already done that...Mazda provide that FREE to owners of MPS3, MPS6, MX5, RX8 and SP23 owners...

They have a Stage 2 advanced drivers training and track training.

I guess...we are bias for what we own and love....so if there are any new WRX owners reading this....i think the car is soft and visually unappealing, but if you like it...thats all that matters.

Cheers
DUG74

Wish HSV would do that with .... Correct about the bias but. But the new Rex isnt that bad when it comes down to it. People just dont like change when its radical . In 6 months people will be buying them and they will sell in high numbers.

Shaun

2nd October 2007, 12:00 AM

I think you will find the GTI sells at TWICE the rate of the MPS3.

The GTi should be replaced in late 2008. The MPs3 in 2009.

The GTI will also be powered up to 165kw next year.

Your not understand what im getting at. New cars go in a trend. As the model Ages sales tend to slow down. As they become old and less apealling to the Public. And every man and there dog ends up with one. The new model is released. Everyone wait a while then starts to buy it they hit a peak then slow down again.

Red AH SRI T

2nd October 2007, 07:35 AM

i must say the look is starting to grow on me, but its still ugly.

I think its more just acceptance.

rjastra

2nd October 2007, 08:24 AM

Your not understand what im getting at. New cars go in a trend. As the model Ages sales tend to slow down. As they become old and less apealling to the Public. And every man and there dog ends up with one. The new model is released. Everyone wait a while then starts to buy it they hit a peak then slow down again.

The Mazda3 range is just as old as the Golf Mk V ;)

The sales rate of the MPS3 has already peaked. The Golf GTI rate has increased since supply has come online and it doesn't look to be diminishing. That's what I am getting at.

People seem to see the Golf Gti as a premium european product.

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 08:35 AM

People seem to see the Golf Gti as a premium european product.

All Euro hatches, compared to their Asian competition, are premium.

ZC_74

2nd October 2007, 08:46 AM

and if we weren't concerned with cost, I'd be putting my grubby little mits on the new Audi S3.

Yes, I am biased

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 08:56 AM

and if we weren't concerned with cost, I'd be putting my grubby little mits on the new Audi S3.

Yes, I am biased

190kW of Quattro Power :D:D:D:D:D:D

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 09:19 AM

Lets wait and see what the new Sti is all about guys, I'm sure it'll have totally different opinions......it looks good and the JDM specs are out at 225kw and 450nm of AWD performance and super handling :D

I'm sure the ADM variant will have at least the same output as above :)

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:20 AM

All Euro hatches, compared to their Asian competition, are premium.

Your opinion.... and you know what they say about opinons... ;)

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:24 AM

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:27 AM

Your opinion.... and you know what they say about opinons... ;)

Yeah...that is true. :)

But just think about it.....noone can make a car better than the ones who invented it....Germans :D

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:30 AM

If you are buying an STi or an Evo or some other hard core Jap hot hatch, the type of plastic used in the interior will hardly be high on the list of priorities of what you get for your money.

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 09:32 AM

But then you sit inside and see the cheap plastic :(

It's an improvement from previous models, it can only get better and it is as Pete's mentioned above a personal opinion when it comes to that sort of thing...

IMHO I think it's improved external appeal (ie: Sti), super performance and value for money or bang for buck attributes, one could easily live with the 'slightly' under standard interior ;)

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:34 AM

If you are buying an STi or an Evo or some other hard core Jap hot hatch, the type of plastic used in the interior will hardly be high on the list of priorities of what you get for your money.

The thing is....getting a rexie or an evo is like buying computer parts at MSY(for those who don't know, it's a shop where you go in, buy what you want and forget about service). You get extremely good value for your money, I don't dispute it....but it's not all rosey.

My mate has an 05 rexie and he stopped taking his car to the Docklands subaru dealer because of bad servicing.

But come on...Evo's and STi's aren't cheap....$55-$60k...that's Holden SS-V and Ford Typhoon money!!!

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:37 AM

But just think about it.....noone can make a car better than the ones who invented it....Germans :D

They might make a good car, but you end up paying a premium for it - and the way things are these days, the gap between say a Holden and Bimmer is not as big as it used to be.... have you driven a VE? Compared to a current model 3 or 5 series (and yes I have driven both) there's not much in it.

Saying that, my new hero car is an RS4. ;)

And comparing my 05 WRX to say my Mother in Law's 03 318i which both cost about the same on purchase, I'd rather my WRX - crap interior and all.

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:39 AM

My mate has an 05 rexie and he stopped taking his car to the Docklands subaru dealer because of bad servicing.

But come on...Evo's and STi's aren't cheap....$55-$60k...that's Holden SS-V and Ford Typhoon money!!!

I've heard of even worse stories at VW dealerships - you want to be treated like pond scum?? Go to a VW dealership and buy/service a car there.....

55-60K might be SS-V and Typhoon money, but you get a lot more metal for your money, as well as none of the tricky stuff found in an STi or EVO....

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:39 AM

They might make a good car, but you end up paying a premium for it - and the way things are these days, the gap between say a Holden and Bimmer is not as big as it used to be.... have you driven a VE? Compared to a current model 3 or 5 series (and yes I have driven both) there's not much in it.

Saying that, my new hero car is an RS4. ;)

And comparing my 05 WRX to say my Mother in Law's 03 318i which both cost about the same on purchase, I'd rather my WRX - crap interior and all.

Comparing BMW's and Subaru's is like comparing a 400m^2 house in Alice Springs and a 400m^2 house on the Beach in the Centre of Sydney or Melbourne. Two completely different things. :)

I would buy the rexie over the 318i....mainly because if I were to get a BMW I'd get a proper BMW...not just for the sake of owning a BMW.

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:42 AM

I've heard of even worse stories at VW dealerships - you want to be treated like pond scum?? Go to a VW dealership and buy/service a car there.....

55-60K might be SS-V and Typhoon money, but you get a lot more metal for your money, as well as none of the tricky stuff found in an STi or EVO....

Imagine de-restricting the ECU of the Typhoon and putting the boost up and strengthening the components for a bit....all for $10k.....shit....400-500kW EASY! :D:D:D:D

bwahahhahahahahha :D I want a Typhoon now.....stuff cornering....I just want 500kW under my bonnet :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:44 AM

Comparing BMW's and Subaru's is like comparing a 400m^2 house in Alice Springs and a 400m^2 house on the Beach in the Centre of Sydney or Melbourne. Two completely different things. :)

I would buy the rexie over the 318i....mainly because if I were to get a BMW I'd get a proper BMW...not just for the sake of owning a BMW.

But you're comparing an STi/EVO to a Typhoon SS-V - not really the same either - the cars are 2 classes up in size, whereas a 3 series and Impreza is roughly the same.

And I'm looking at it from purely a price perspective. 40K could get me either a WRX or a 318i. And personally - the whole thing about 318i's getting bagged out etc etc - bullshit. My mother in law doesnt need a 6 cylinder, she doesn't need to get to 100 in 7 seconds - and the 318 is no slouch either, plus its v economical which is what she was after.

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:47 AM

Yeah I know, I'm with you on that. Don't get me wrong, I love Subaru's and Evo's.

I just think the new WRX is not anymore the bang-for-buck it used to be :).

I do, however, love the STi and EVO. My only wish for them is to be under 1300kg :(. Imagine an STi or EVO(the new gen ones) with...say...1250kg......that's a bloody rocket :D.

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 09:51 AM

I just think the new WRX is not anymore the bang-for-buck it used to be :).

I do, however, love the STi and EVO. My only wish for them is to be under 1300kg :(. Imagine an STi or EVO(the new gen ones) with...say...1250kg......that's a bloody rocket :D.

No it's definately softened up..... :(

Wouldn't making them lighter would require Bitsamissing and Subaru to put more lightweight aluminium or carbon fibre into the car driving the cost up - then you might as well spend the 2K rather than 20K extra and get an Audi...;)

bornwild

2nd October 2007, 09:56 AM

No it's definately softened up..... :(

Wouldn't making them lighter would require Bitsamissing and Subaru to put more lightweight aluminium or carbon fibre into the car driving the cost up - then you might as well spend the 2K rather than 20K extra and get an Audi...;)

I'd rather a lightweight power rocket than a luxurious hot hatch...I'm that kind of person.....even if it means going past an Audi for a mere $2k. I don't mind gearbox whining in the car...I don't mind wearing a helmet to track days....I don't mind seeing the metal from inside :)...they should really make special editions for us track-freaks :D

Shaun

2nd October 2007, 12:17 PM

The Mazda3 range is just as old as the Golf Mk V ;)

The sales rate of the MPS3 has already peaked. The Golf GTI rate has increased since supply has come online and it doesn't look to be diminishing. That's what I am getting at.

People seem to see the Golf Gti as a premium european product.

Volkswagen is Nothing but a Poor Mans Audi.

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 12:58 PM

I'd rather a lightweight power rocket than a luxurious hot hatch...I'm that kind of person.....even if it means going past an Audi for a mere $2k. I don't mind gearbox whining in the car...I don't mind wearing a helmet to track days....I don't mind seeing the metal from inside :)...they should really make special editions for us track-freaks :D

Bornwild, as I've mentioned on the other Evo thread, the RS spec Evo 10 is what you want, although it will be much better appointed than what you've listed above :)

EL BURITO

2nd October 2007, 01:42 PM

Volkswagen is Nothing but a Poor Mans Audi.
that may be true but its deff more bank for your buck than the Audi were even vanity lights are a extra

rjastra

2nd October 2007, 01:49 PM

I would have thought a Liberty is more 3 series sized than a Impreza. A specced 3L or turbo Liberty is getting close to 60K on road. NOt really that cheap anymore (you can get a 270kw V8 Calais V for less!).

The MPS3 is no cheaper than the euros either. 40K will get you a MPS3 or GOlf Gti. The Astra and Xr5 (both euros) are cheaper!

Vectracious

2nd October 2007, 02:27 PM

that may be true but its deff more bank for your buck than the Audi were even vanity lights are a extra

Skoda is coming to Australia in the next few months - The Octavia will the new definition for value for money for a Euro...

The only problem will be the nameplate - It's a Skoda so its crap....

ZC_74

2nd October 2007, 02:33 PM

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 02:51 PM

what I said earlier was purely a "take the money out of the equation" deal. My dream car would be a RS4 but in the hot hatch arena it would still be an Audi S3. It copped some criticism at launch and may be behind the gold but I feel it's a much nicer looking car and I reckon the interior would be better than most being discussed

I think your correct about the interior, as with most Audis, they're excellent !

However, exterior looks is a personal choice, to me the S3 is even blander looking than a Golf Gti.....

As for the RS4, well another good car, but for me for around a 'speculated similar' sum of money I'd have the new GT-R Godzilla - have you checked out this beauty at all....IMHO it not only looks better, it will have better everything, including new technology to the engine and driveline, other cars won't have for years to come,only it's a 2 door coupe, not 4 door saloon :)

rjastra

2nd October 2007, 03:18 PM

Forget the RS4.... Merc C63 AMG is the way to go.

Initial reports have it being even more hard core than the new M3 and significantly faster.

ZC_74

2nd October 2007, 03:26 PM

I think your correct about the interior, as with most Audis, they're excellent !

However, exterior looks is a personal choice, to me the S3 is even blander looking than a Golf Gti.....

As for the RS4, well another good car, but for me for around a 'speculated similar' sum of money I'd have the new GT-R Godzilla - have you checked out this beauty at all....IMHO it not only looks better, it will have better everything, including new technology to the engine and driveline, other cars won't have for years to come,only it's a 2 door coupe, not 4 door saloon :)

That being a big concern for a 2 child family. It is the reason that I couldn't (nearly said wouldn't) buy an S3. Not practical. I don't believe the RS4 (or an A4 to be more precise) is much bigger than my Veccy so I don't really see an Audi being my next car anyway. As much as I want it to be.

Forget the RS4.... Merc C63 AMG is the way to go.

Initial reports have it being even more hard core than the new M3 and significantly faster.

Agreed. I really like the agressive looks of the 'c' class. I was next to a base model yesterday and wasn't impressed but the AMG pack that can go on or the true AMG version - yeah I'd be interested. The Brabus Bullit is another awesome example of this car.

I just picked up the new Wheels mag and it has a pic of the supposed new SS Commodore Wagon. I'd almost be interested in that for an upcoming family mobile. And if HSV every did a variant, I'd be sold

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 03:40 PM

I think you've just found your next car - a VE wagon is definitely on the way and we'll definitely see HSV variants of it !! :)

btm

2nd October 2007, 03:55 PM

I just picked up the new Wheels mag and it has a pic of the supposed new SS Commodore Wagon. I'd almost be interested in that for an upcoming family mobile. And if HSV every did a variant, I'd be sold

HSV will definitely do a wagon, will look super sexy too ;)

maloo97

2nd October 2007, 03:59 PM

I Hope hsv do a wagon. Its been a long time.

ZC_74

2nd October 2007, 04:28 PM

I've never understood why they haven't. Look how popular Avants are? Again, Audi but they have made some of the fastest 'Wagons' ever. And I honestly believe that HSV would sell there variant quite easily

Wraith

2nd October 2007, 04:46 PM

Don't worry boys........as stated they're on there way ;)

CORZZA

2nd October 2007, 09:50 PM

saw one again today on the roads. the wrx that its. its GAY

btm

3rd October 2007, 08:33 AM

saw one again today on the roads. the wrx that its. its GAY
gay - adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb

–adjective

1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3. given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.

so which one is it? :D

oneightoo

3rd October 2007, 10:06 AM

Wraith

4th October 2007, 09:49 AM

gay - adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb

–adjective

1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3. given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.

so which one is it? :D

LOL

In this case new meaning - gay = don't like it :D

rusole21

5th October 2007, 11:13 AM

i saw one when i was at the subaru dealer on the weekend..

new wrx = ugly and soft

i told the salesman that and he said "oh no, they look great and it'll sell a bundle"

spoken like a true salesman.. he was a dick tho, he wouldnt let me test drive a liberty because they didnt have a manual (which is what i said i wanted) and they only had an auto.. he said he didnt wanna waste time doing a "joy ride" i told see ya later..
what do you expect? you said you want to drive the manual and they dont have it. so why waste your time and theirs mate? they are completely different cars. do you know how many people like you go in tryin to have joyrides in their new cars? hundreds!! and the fact is they are selling the new wrx like hot cakes!

if ya want to drive a particular car make an appointment and go in. then they will have the car and wont be wasting anyones time. their time is more valuable than yours if you have time to be just checkin it out and wanting a drive.

oneightoo

5th October 2007, 11:33 AM

what do you expect? you said you want to drive the manual and they dont have it. so why waste your time and theirs mate? they are completely different cars. do you know how many people like you go in tryin to have joyrides in their new cars? hundreds!! and the fact is they are selling the new wrx like hot cakes!

if ya want to drive a particular car make an appointment and go in. then they will have the car and wont be wasting anyones time. their time is more valuable than yours if you have time to be just checkin it out and wanting a drive.

what do reckon i expect, mate? i expect the salesman to try and sell a car.. that is his job, right? it was a used car, not a new one.. and all i was wanting was to see how it felt on the road, i know how a car changes gears.. besides, he may have even sold me the auto if i liked it.. but no, the guy couldnt be bothered, so **** him..

so no, it's not wasting their time, and no it's not wasting mine.. they could have had a sale, now they wont, simple, i'll go to the next dealer with a used liberty and drive theirs, and if i like, i'll buy it..

i dont give a shit how many new wrx's they sell, it's still ugly compared to the last model..

and there's a little difference between going for a joyride and actually test driving a car.. think before you post, mate..

Vectracious

5th October 2007, 11:43 AM

what do reckon i expect, mate? i expect the salesman to try and sell a car.. that is his job, right? it was a used car, not a new one.. and all i was wanting was to see how it felt on the road, i know how a car changes gears.. besides, he may have even sold me the auto if i liked it.. but no, the guy couldnt be bothered, so **** him..

+1

Had the same thing happen when I bought my Vectra.... 1st dealer wouldn't give me the time of day and treated me like crap. Maybe coz I was young, maybe coz I wasn't wearing a suit. So I just went along to the next Holden dealer where the salesman was very helpful and I signed the paperwork for my new Vectra that very day. Not only that, but that same dealership has also now sold my Dad 2 Berlina's and he's picking up his new VE Calais in a few months.

Sure, dealers have to deal with ****wits coming in to waste their time, but they need to at least attempt to make some effort so they don't lose what could be a legitimate sale.

oneightoo

5th October 2007, 11:49 AM

+1

Had the same thing happen when I bought my Vectra.... 1st dealer wouldn't give me the time of day and treated me like crap. Maybe coz I was young, maybe coz I wasn't wearing a suit. So I just went along to the next Holden dealer where the salesman was very helpful and I signed the paperwork for my new Vectra that very day. Not only that, but that same dealership has also now sold my Dad 2 Berlina's and he's picking up his new VE Calais in a few months.

Sure, dealers have to deal with ****wits coming in to waste their time, but they need to at least attempt to make some effort so they don't lose what could be a legitimate sale.

exactly....

rusole21

5th October 2007, 11:59 AM

ok im sorry but they way you said i wanted to drive the manual but they didnt have it, but i still wanted to drive the auto made me think you where just joy ridin. also i assumed you where drivin the new liberty. i do think before i post but sometimes get so annoyed with the crap written on this forum. with people sayin crap like "i want a evo that ways less that 1300kg" then says "the plastics are so cheap". SHUTUP!!

also dont settle for somethin you dont really want!! there are manuals out there so dont get an auto because thats what they had. i have also experienced this from salesman but ya just have to be real sure of yourself and tell them what you want and when you want it. swear at em and say "i wanna fricken drive now mate!".

i also adree the last model was better re: the new wrx but the thing is that this is appealing to a larger demographic of people and is probbably a better car. (i have driven it). pos be gettin a new car soon.

oneightoo

5th October 2007, 12:14 PM

i should have been clearer in my post..

Calibrated

5th October 2007, 12:21 PM

My Alpine rep just bought a new WRX in silver...gonna be fully worked with Alpine gear. cant wait to see it when its done.

Vectracious

5th October 2007, 12:25 PM

i do think before i post but sometimes get so annoyed with the crap written on this forum. with people sayin crap like "i want a evo that ways less that 1300kg" then says "the plastics are so cheap". SHUTUP!!

ROFLMAO :clap: :D

blueraven

5th October 2007, 02:46 PM

with people sayin crap like "i want a evo that ways less that 1300kg" then says "the plastics are so cheap". SHUTUP!!

i want an evo/sti with full leather and all options, with 350kw, 19" wheels, r-comp tyres, flappy paddle dual clutch whizzbang gearbox that weighs under a tonne and costs as much as a barina. also needs a switch for 500kw for when some p plater in a gtr thinks he can keep up.

oh and i want it in black pearl colour that shines dark candy blue in the sunlight.

:) is that too much to ask?

Wraith

5th October 2007, 02:55 PM

i want an evo/sti with full leather and all options, with 350kw, 19" wheels, r-comp tyres, flappy paddle dual clutch whizzbang gearbox that weighs under a tonne and costs as much as a barina. also needs a switch for 500kw for when some p plater in a gtr thinks he can keep up.

oh and i want it in black pearl colour that shines dark candy blue in the sunlight.

:) is that too much to ask?

With the right amount of money - most certainly not sir...... :D

Seriously though, I agree with the main point above, this threads got some serious nonsense posts in it !

Anyways, not long now before we see the debut in Japan of the new Sti and find out more about it.

Evo 10 is out, there's a big spread on it in todays Herald sun cars guide....