The Next Barina.. (more Daewoo crap!)

[cyclonic]

Well here's a preview of the next model Barina in Chevrolet guise. Still as ugly as a hat full of arseholes I think...

http://www.globalautoindex.com/images/news/1891/norm_0_orig.jpg
For more see:
http://www.globalautoindex.com/news.plt?no=1891&nl=y#

[Shaun]

It will sell. The price is what decides if its going to sell. The Barina now sits in a price driven market.Something the GM Europe Sourced Barina could never do. But you never know . Holden could go back to the GM Soruced Barina . But the cost wont be 13k. It will be about 15-16k for the entry level.

I have a feeling we could see a Corsa VXR though at the sydney motorshow this year on the HSV Stand.

[cyclonic]

It will sell. The price is what decides if its going to sell. The Barina now sits in a price driven market.

Yes, it'll sell.. but its still a second rate, badly built, uncrashworthy pile of poo. The TK has been responsible for a sharp decline in XC resale values and now some people are confusing the two. Oh well... Rant over!

[Bill_G]

I don't care if GM owns Daewoo or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's still an ugly, poorly assembled Korean piece of shit, and it makes the Ford Focus look better value than ever.

What is it with GM anyway? First the Vectra, and now the Corsa. Are we still going to be able to buy any decent European-sourced vehicles from GM or not?

[USC]

mate, she`s got 4 wheels, seats and an engine..she`ll be alright!:D

[Petey]

it looks like the current TK sold here with a facelift,

ie, new nose a la Audi & headlights a la Epica!!!

still same poor chasis & drivetrain I'll bet.

shame the proper new Corsa didn't get shipped over here.

I'm looking at getting a new daily driver in November & it's what I'd like to buy, but now will check out the new Mazda2, the Yaris, swift & xr4...

GMH has missed out on 1 sale !!!

[MatsHolden]

mate, she`s got 4 wheels, seats and an engine..she`ll be alright!:D

I know you're only joking, but that's pretty much spot on for the target market of the Barina.

[USC]

I know you're only joking, but that's pretty much spot on for the target market of the Barina.


haha:) I was partly joking but it does make sense...what do you want more from a $13k brand new car? I reckon it looks alright, goes alright and hopefully will last for a while like daihatsu charades!

[stevedee3]

What is it with GM anyway?More specifically, what's with GM Holden? - GM Europe (Saab/Opel) are still making cars
First the Vectra, and now the Corsa. Are we still going to be able to buy any decent European-sourced vehicles from GM or not?At the moment, just the Astra variants and the Saab range. So far we've lost the Barina (Corsa), Calibra, Combo, Tigra, Vectra, Zafira. Although we have gained the Captiva MaXX (Opel Antara).

[USC]

More specifically, what's with GM Holden? - GM Europe (Saab/Opel) are still making cars At the moment, just the Astra variants and the Saab range. So far we've lost the Barina (Corsa), Calibra, Combo, Tigra, Vectra, Zafira. Although we have gained the Captiva MaXX (Opel Antara).

isnt the captiva a korean car anyways?

GM holden caught the korean bird flu! cheaper and easier to service as technology is crap in those koren cars....

[cyclonic]

haha:) I was partly joking but it does make sense...what do you want more from a $13k brand new car? I reckon it looks alright, goes alright and hopefully will last for a while like daihatsu charades!

Holden wants profitable vehicles not reliable ones. I beg to differ with your assessment, but the car is ugly, slow and badly built. It won't last long at all. I utterly HATE it.


More specifically, what's with GM Holden? - GM Europe (Saab/Opel) are still making cars At the moment, just the Astra variants and the Saab range. So far we've lost the Barina (Corsa), Calibra, Combo, Tigra, Vectra, Zafira. Although we have gained the Captiva MaXX (Opel Antara).

Profits and current covnersion rates. The European stuff is simply too expensive for Holden to sell at what they deem to be a profit. The Captiva MaXX Daewoo designed and built, with tweaks by Opel.

[Shaun]

Yes, it'll sell.. but its still a second rate, badly built, uncrashworthy pile of poo. The TK has been responsible for a sharp decline in XC resale values and now some people are confusing the two. Oh well... Rant over!

I doubt the TK is responsable for it in the sense that its cheaper car. The TS astra resale value dropped the moment the AH was released. The XC resale value would have dropped because a new model entered the market. This happens with ALL cars.

As for crash testing wait and see when the test are carried out then comment. As this is a New design. One that Holden have had more say in.

As for everyone else who crys about there beloved " BARINA " being imported from Asia. GET OVER IT(thats not directed to all that have posted in this thread but in the pass with there baby crys). . Look at the big picture. Its Busniess. This is why you are all on the forum And not on the Board of directors of GM-H or GM. When your trying to sell into a cut throat market in the the small car segment and price is what sells these cars then its smart busniess sense to Do what Holden have done.

And i wouldnt have said the XC was overly well built. Remember they are about 8,000 euro car back in there day. Cheap german small car .

[CJB]

I actually like it. I wouldnt buy one, but I like it, cosmetically speaking.

When is it likely to be sold here?

[bornwild]

Looks like a minor facelift....Still a piece of shit, or as cyclonic put it "Still as ugly as a hat full of arseholes I think..." :D

[oneightoo]

for 13k find me a better looking brand new car..

it's cheap..

it's korean..

whooppee doo..

we have this same arguement everytime something new comes out..

[Wraith]

Front end grille looks very Golf-ish.... :rolleyes:

Regardles of price and value for money, definitely NOT for me thanks :cool:

[SIMid]

for 13k find me a better looking brand new car..

it's cheap..

it's korean..

whooppee doo..

we have this same arguement everytime something new comes out..

*LOLOL*

Not worth commenting on this mode of transport.

[digifish]

It will sell. The price is what decides if its going to sell. The Barina now sits in a price driven market.Something the GM Europe Sourced Barina could never do. But you never know . Holden could go back to the GM Soruced Barina . But the cost wont be 13k. It will be about 15-16k for the entry level.

The thing is that they are hardly selling any new Barinas, Vivas or Epicas ... while the Astra is about #5 or 6 in the top ten all last year.

Ford seems to be following the Holden of old, by importing (or about to import) all the euro models. Festiva ($16-24K), Focus (19-36K), Mondeo...

I think Holden just made a mistake. I think that they opted out of the Euro models at exactly the wrong time, the market is transitioning to smaller cars, and people have more money to spend in this segment than they used to. I can't see how they are making more money with the new Barina than they did with old (for example).

BTW: the new Mondeo is a smart looking car...

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1163399223417&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FFullwidth1024&c=DFYPage (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1163399223417&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FFullwidth1024&c=DFYPage)

digifish

[USC]

Not for me either....stay away from Korean cars...I owned a 1997 Hyundai elantra when I was at uni...piece of junk...everything broke down from starter motor to power window motor to automatic transmission.....

[bornwild]

BTW: the new Mondeo is a smart looking car...

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1163399223417&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FFullwidth1024&c=DFYPage

digifish

As a matter of fact, if you read German reviews(whom I trust more than my own mother's word), it's the best car in it's class(and price-range) being sold currently in the market.

It's even better than a VW Passat.


I've had the pleasure of sitting in one at the Ford HQ in Campbellfield....it feels more like a car you pay $70k-$100k for than a budget 'mid-sized' saloon. It screams QUALITY at you. Will definitely be looking at one of them as a replacement for my Astra, once I get my full licence that is.

[J]

Mondeo does look extremely promising, as is the 2008 Mazda 6.

It is interesting to see that, whilst most manufacturers are trying to head upmarket (eg. Ford with its Mondeo, Mitsubishi with its upcoming Lancer), Holden is going the opposite direction in the name of chasing volume. I understand if their business case demands they source cars from Daewoo, but if not, I just can't see the reason for it. I mean, look at the drop in Barina sales compared to last year's. An average buyer might be clueless, but it doesn't take long for them to work out the difference and alternative for themselves. A Yaris for about $1-2K extra is not a big stretch for most people, over a few years' worth of car ownership. In the meantime, they are killing whatever good reputation the Euro imports managed to scramble together for Holden over the years...

Not knowing how much say Holden has in this matter (for all I know, it could be GM's overriding decision!), but it will definitely make better long term business sense for Holden to keep selling the Corsa D, and delay swapping Opels for GM Daewoo substitutes until their overall package is up to, if not exceeding, the same standard. It's too late now.

Looks like I will have to keep our "orphaned" Corsa C for a while :) At least I will have fun whilst I am at it! Especially at the twisties :D

[Wraith]

Wasn't it a Mondeo sports model featured on top gear a couple of weeks ago ??

Looked pretty good and even they gave it the thumbs up ;)

J, I agree with regards to the new Mazda 6, from the pics I've seen so far, it's a very nice looking machine, Mazda will also introduce a new 2.5ltr direct injected turbo for the new MPS6 model....looking really good !

Overall the Jap cars are getting better and better, that's for sure....

[pred8r]

for 13k find me a better looking brand new car..

it's cheap..

it's korean..

whooppee doo..

we have this same arguement everytime something new comes out..

Proton Savvy

Seeing Proton own Lotus, Im sure Lotus had some input into the suspension.
Better yet put some Lotus badges on it to really confuse people.
Call it the Lotus Cutie (Hottie wont cut it......)

[oneightoo]

Proton Savvy

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02/23/211406.3-lg.jpg

are you kidding?

[pred8r]

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02/23/211406.3-lg.jpg

are you kidding?

They REALLY need clear indicators, then they will sell like hotcakes :)

[cbrmale]

With a two-star crash test rating, I don't think Holden can give the Barina away. And the other Daewoo-sourced models don't sell well either, I think the Astra to Viva sales ratio is about five to one.

Two problems with the new Corsa. The first is price, hard to keep it price competitive. The second is performance: Europe has a different style of driving to us where heavy urban traffic congestion or free-flowing motorways mean they don't need cars with hard acceleration (anyone who has been there will know what I mean). But even by European standards, the latest Corsa is slow! The new car is bigger and heavier than a C, and the twinport 1.4 just doesn't do it anymore. If it is underpowered by European standards, how could it cope here?

[bill142]

It's just really bland style wise. GM Daewoo can, physically at least, build a car that's just as good as, if not better, then some thing coming out of Europe. For whatever reason, they think that this path is right one. We can all sit back and be armchair CEOs and say that Holden should go back to the European sourced cars, but we don't have the full picture. My guess, as an armchair CEO, is that until the Australian Dollar strengthens against the Euro not much is going to happen.

[AF1R]

Is that grill meant to make it look more european? Koreans should stick to what they do best, and thats making LCD screens, DVD players and mobile phones.

[Shaun]

New Satria Looks good from Proton...
http://www.proton.com.au/showroom/satria/satria_exterior.php

[bornwild]

Even the satria looks like a pile of dogshit randomly stacked together....

[dieselhead]

Surprisingly, the Top Gear boys hate it, too :)

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/2132/

[bornwild]

Surprisingly the Top Gear boys hate it, too :)

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/2132/

Wow, that's quite a surprise isn't it....:D

[Shaun]

People will buy it. The Satria will sell well. Proton arent that bad. They look good and they drive and handle well for the price tag attached. Wait to see there next hot hatch effort. Dont be suprised another GTi Satria makes its way to the world market as the Last model was very popular in Aisa. With the Lotus Suspension work fitted to the new Satria i believe if they product is right in quality and preformance aspects it will knock off the Golf GTI from its purch . And remember the Price tag of the GTi would be lower then a GTI Golf as the exchange rate is better from Malaysia then it is from Europe. In that fact it will appeal to those who cant justifiy the 40k price tag of a GTI Golf.

[Red AH SRI T]

So far we've lost the Barina (Corsa), Calibra, Combo, Tigra, Vectra, Zafira. Although we have gained the Captiva MaXX (Opel Antara).

The Combo is still available, there has just been supply problems all this year, that should start fixing its self from around next month.

I have a feeling that maybe the Aussie Version of this new Barina could get a slightly different, less gapping front bumper???

[rjastra]

Proton will probably go down the gurgler before the Satria GTi is released. They are in a bad way.
People who buy Golf Gtis will NOT, repeat NOT, look at a Proton - lol

Re: Mondeo, has anyone mentioned that the cheapest Mondeo is likely to cost a not insubstantial $30K. About the price of the upspec Epica. And from all reports the Mondeo is HEAVY and is rather lacklustre in performance unless fitted with the XR5 derived engine or the larger turbo diesels.

[bornwild]

From all the reviews I've read about the new mondeo, it is quite light and agile and the 2.0l Duratec engine is quite adequate.

It weighs 1477kg(80 more than my Astra Coupe) and with the 105kw it'll be pretty easy moving and it has the handling of a Focus/Astra If you want a bit more ooomph then there is the 2.0l Duratorq engine with 340Nm.

This new Mondeo is an amazing car, no doubt about it. And you can't even compare the Epica with it....it's like comparing a Daewoo Barina to the Opel Corsa.....ridiculous.

[CJB]

I saw the Viva's going for sale for $13,990 - Ishley will back me up on this one - plus on roads.

That's dirt cheap. I don't care if it's run out, end of financial year whatever, that's still dirt cheap and makes me think they just might be having a hard time selling the cars - and it's not like I see a parade of Epica's around either. And if I see a TK Barina, usually it's always the 3 door.

[Shaun]

Proton will probably go down the gurgler before the Satria GTi is released. They are in a bad way.
People who buy Golf Gtis will NOT, repeat NOT, look at a Proton - lol

Re: Mondeo, has anyone mentioned that the cheapest Mondeo is likely to cost a not insubstantial $30K. About the price of the upspec Epica. And from all reports the Mondeo is HEAVY and is rather lacklustre in performance unless fitted with the XR5 derived engine or the larger turbo diesels.

No but those who cant afford to look at the GTI golf will look at the Proton Satria GTi if the price is right. Considering Proton are claiming arround the 180kw mark . Its an Appealing car as it will be alot cheaper too in the Modding department.

[Tfer]

I saw the Viva's going for sale for $13,990 - Ishley will back me up on this one - plus on roads.

That's dirt cheap. I don't care if it's run out, end of financial year whatever, that's still dirt cheap and makes me think they just might be having a hard time selling the cars - and it's not like I see a parade of Epica's around either. And if I see a TK Barina, usually it's always the 3 door.

Agreed Crispy ;)

[USC]

No but those who cant afford to look at the GTI golf will look at the Proton Satria GTi if the price is right. Considering Proton are claiming arround the 180kw mark . Its an Appealing car as it will be alot cheaper too in the Modding department.

and how long do you think the engine will last for??

[pred8r]

and how long do you think the engine will last for??

The engine in the current GTI is OLD and as for power its around 100kw, which was a monster for its price when released against the CE/CE2 MR Lancer (82Kw, same engine different head, IIRC SOHC vs DOHC), which at the time (1997??-2002) was one of the the highest powered non-turbo HOT4's, in the price range........


Then came the Corsa C SRi to ruffle some feathers :D:D:D


The engine in the EVO has been around for a LOOOONG time, IIRC same engine (4G63) through all EVO's so far.........Ford XR6T engine is a variation of a 40yo design.

[rjastra]

No but those who cant afford to look at the GTI golf will look at the Proton Satria GTi if the price is right. Considering Proton are claiming arround the 180kw mark . Its an Appealing car as it will be alot cheaper too in the Modding department.

I have never heard the 180kw figure bandied about for the next Satria GTi. Any links? AFAIK it's a 1.6L turbo. Maybe 180hp not kW.

As for mods.. How is it cheaper than modding a Golf/AStra turbo? You have to have a large base of vehicles to drive down the cost of mods. The Satria uses an engine not used by other manufacturers.


It weighs 1477kg(80 more than my Astra Coupe) and with the 105kw it'll be pretty easy moving and it has the handling of a Focus/Astra

0-100km/h in 10 secs (2L EFI Manual)? Its no faster than a base spec 1.8L Astra! In fact a Epica may give it a run for its money - lol

The Diesels range around the 10 sec mark as well. The auto is into the 11 sec mark.

Most models are in excess of 1500kg with the diesels getting close to 1600kg.

[Shaun]

I have never heard the 180kw figure bandied about for the next Satria GTi. Any links? AFAIK it's a 1.6L turbo. Maybe 180hp not kW.

As for mods.. How is it cheaper than modding a Golf/AStra turbo? You have to have a large base of vehicles to drive down the cost of mods. The Satria uses an engine not used by other manufacturers.



.

There was an Article back 4 years ago . But why couldnt it produce that much power? Who says its going to be a 1.6 ltr ? As Proton owns Lotus and Lotus have a contract in Place to Use Toyota Engines you may find they use another manfacturers engine. The Old Satria GTi used a Mitsubishi Gallant engine. No one in the Australian Media when it comes to new cars uses the measurement of Horsepower so im sure that its KW.

As for Mods. The last Satria GTi was extremely popular in Malaysia . Alot of Manfacturers of aftermarket items over there for the Satria. GTi owners had an Offical Satria GTi owners club backed by Proton. Proton even released Special Edtions of the GTi with Upgraded interiors suspension and exhaust from factory.

Do your home work as they have been quite a popular car overseas. And if the pricing and quality is right this time i would supect they could be a suprise package. The new Satria is a nice shape and with some bigger rims and some other enhancements it would make a nice GTi . Considering Proton were the 1st Manfacturer with a Hot Hatch with a Lotus Tuned Suspension and Recaro seats fitted. 99% of the hot hatches today are using Recaro seats now when you think about it they were about 7-8 years ahead of the other manafacturers at the time.


Proton arent that bad when you consider that fact and the last Satria GTi came out in the late 90's.

[Shaun]

and how long do you think the engine will last for??

show me where there is a manfacturer that has major and mass failures with engines today ??

Its rare and when it happens its very uncommon and is normally due to driver abuse.

[bornwild]

show me where there is a manfacturer that has major and mass failures with engines today ??

Its rare and when it happens its very uncommon and is normally due to driver abuse.

Holden, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai I see daily on the side of the road with bonnets popped up...

And the Satria won't even have 180hp, don't even think of 180kw. Your argument for the large 'modification' base for the satria in Malaysia is very poor. The golf has an even larger tuning base in europe, as do the astra and focus.

It's a no-brainer really that the satria is gonna be shit like the one before it.


Anyhow, back on this Barina....it's fugly

[Shaun]

Holden, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai I see daily on the side of the road with bonnets popped up...

And the Satria won't even have 180hp, don't even think of 180kw. Your argument for the large 'modification' base for the satria in Malaysia is very poor. The golf has an even larger tuning base in europe, as do the astra and focus.

It's a no-brainer really that the satria is gonna be shit like the one before it.


Anyhow, back on this Barina....it's fugly
Talk about weak arguements.
Bonnets open dont exactly mean the engines have let go. You just proved to me that you have no idea what your talking about. its rare to see a car new or within the 1st 4-5 years a major engine failure will occur. Yes its possible but extremely rare.

As for the arguement that Proton are unable to build a 180kw Satria GTi . Thats has got to be one of the stupidest comments i have heard today.would be like saying That Holden cant build a commodore with a 400kw V8. Proton Have a Team of ENGINEERS. That are quite capable of Building ANYTHING when the budget is given to them to do so. Just like all Manfactuers . Holden Built a complete new Commodore from Scratch. It was there 1st attempt on a new platform. Not an Opel sources Platform. And they Achieved something that is up there with BMW and Mercedes Benz in terms of design. My point is that they were giving a budget to do so and they were able to deliver.

Its about exhange rates im talking about . considering to mod a European car it will cost you 3 times the sell price when converted from euro to Australian Dollar. The Australian dollar is stronger against the Malaysian Ringgit. Thats why Proton Cars are well priced. Not because the are poorly built like you all seem to claim.

Back to the Barina Argument
Im not going to be nice about this anymore. Stop being tools who think you all know more then thoses at Holden and GM who can produce a busniess plan and business case for the Daewoo based product over a Opel Sourced Corsa.

But again you all seem to know better. How about sending your applications to Holden Limited attn Human Resources. Im sure you would all pick up a postion considering you all seem to know how to run the Holden Busness from this forum.
Yes the Barina may not be the most attractive car out there. But its Value for money. And to the Market they are aiming the Barina to ( 2nd car for the wife and kids / the young 17-19 year old who wants a cheap affordable new car) they are spot on for value. They are cheap to run reliable and cheap to maintain. And when the avarage family has a morgage of about $500,000 it makes perfect sense to have a Cheap new car that would normally be kept for 3 years then traded in. Look at the bigger picture for a change and stop being so narrow minded .

[USC]

calm down mate! Its no biggy.

I dont understand why the wife gets the crap small car though?? you gota explain this one to me!

I reckon Holden should start adopting following strategy: "Buy one Barina and get the second one for free!":D ..hahahaha...

Only time can tell how Holden will perform with its new superb korean range...

I feel extremely sorry for the the wife and kids / the young 17-19 year old out there...




Talk about weak arguements.
Bonnets open dont exactly mean the engines have let go. You just proved to me that you have no idea what your talking about. its rare to see a car new or within the 1st 4-5 years a major engine failure will occur. Yes its possible but extremely rare.

As for the arguement that Proton are unable to build a 180kw Satria GTi . Thats has got to be one of the stupidest comments i have heard today.would be like saying That Holden cant build a commodore with a 400kw V8. Proton Have a Team of ENGINEERS. That are quite capable of Building ANYTHING when the budget is given to them to do so. Just like all Manfactuers . Holden Built a complete new Commodore from Scratch. It was there 1st attempt on a new platform. Not an Opel sources Platform. And they Achieved something that is up there with BMW and Mercedes Benz in terms of design. My point is that they were giving a budget to do so and they were able to deliver.

Its about exhange rates im talking about . considering to mod a European car it will cost you 3 times the sell price when converted from euro to Australian Dollar. The Australian dollar is stronger against the Malaysian Ringgit. Thats why Proton Cars are well priced. Not because the are poorly built like you all seem to claim.

Back to the Barina Argument
Im not going to be nice about this anymore. Stop being tools who think you all know more then thoses at Holden and GM who can produce a busniess plan and business case for the Daewoo based product over a Opel Sourced Corsa.

But again you all seem to know better. How about sending your applications to Holden Limited attn Human Resources. Im sure you would all pick up a postion considering you all seem to know how to run the Holden Busness from this forum.
Yes the Barina may not be the most attractive car out there. But its Value for money. And to the Market they are aiming the Barina to ( 2nd car for the wife and kids / the young 17-19 year old who wants a cheap affordable new car) they are spot on for value. They are cheap to run reliable and cheap to maintain. And when the avarage family has a morgage of about $500,000 it makes perfect sense to have a Cheap new car that would normally be kept for 3 years then traded in. Look at the bigger picture for a change and stop being so narrow minded .

[Shaun]

calm down mate! Its no biggy.

I dont understand why the wife gets the crap small car though?? you gota explain this one to me!

I reckon Holden should start adopting following strategy: "Buy one Barina and get the second one for free!":D ..hahahaha...

Only time can tell how Holden will perform with its new superb korean range...

I like that strategy... But it should apply for the VXR owners too. Buy a VXR and get a Viva free...
O.K it may not always be the wife that gets the car but the argument is that the avarage family with a $500,000 (eastern sea board) would by something in the Barina's segment for the second car.


Only reason im going off about it is because this argument comes up every 3 or so months. and its the same shit. people crying because the Opel sourced Barina is no more... its been going on since the introduction of the Daewoo sourced Barina.

Its alittle old now..

[USC]

Yeh, I totally understand your point!
One of my mates works in the design section for Holden and he knew about GM importing Daewoos from korea to replace Barinas about a year before it all started. He was quite disappointed with that decision himself but I guess everyone has to get used to it.

I dont understand why the Viva is there though! I hope they dont intend on replacing the astra with the Viva..cos that would be terrible!!:eek:

Barina, viva, epica,captiva, astra..they all end with an 'a'. Commodore should be commodora...:D






I like that strategy... But it should apply for the VXR owners too. Buy a VXR and get a Viva free...
O.K it may not always be the wife that gets the car but the argument is that the avarage family with a $500,000 (eastern sea board) would by something in the Barina's segment for the second car.


Only reason im going off about it is because this argument comes up every 3 or so months. and its the same shit. people crying because the Opel sourced Barina is no more... its been going on since the introduction of the Daewoo sourced Barina.

Its alittle old now..

[Shaun]

Yeh, I totally understand your point!
One of my mates works in the design section for Holden and he knew about GM importing Daewoos from korea to replace Barinas about a year before it all started. He was quite disappointed with that decision himself but I guess everyone has to get used to it.

I dont understand why the Viva is there though! I hope they dont intend on replacing the astra with the Viva..cos that would be terrible!!:eek:

Barina, viva, epica,captiva, astra..they all end with an 'a'. Commodore should be commodora...:D

The Viva is there to fill the gap between the Astra and the Barina.. As not everyone can justify $21k+ for an Astra and the Barina dosent suit all small car buyers.. The Viva sits in there nicely to fill a hole in the market . It makes good business sense (not that most here understand it ) to have the Viva because if someone looks at the Astra but says the budget dont extent that far the dealers have a second option to offer to the customer. Means more options to the retail buyer the and dealerships and holden has a better hold on a small / med car market. At the end of the month market share is calculated on Units registered. Holden set a target for each model . So long as the units sold are met they are happy. But they would expect to exceed the budget set .



Thanks for seeing my point. Im glad that someone here finally gets it. Because the others are just crying about the same shit over and over. At the end of the day its not going to bring the Opel Sourced Barina Back. Holden couldnt care less what the Members of Opelaus say about bringing it back. We would be .00001% of the market share of total product sales.

[SRICORSA]

Holden couldnt care less .....

Your probably right, and obviously have decided that they are focussing their small car market on a different category of driver.

IMO corsa SRI's are a comparative hatch to a number of other european hot hatches, their current fleet aint.

[USC]

The thing is in Europe, all these peugeot 206, Citroen C2, Renault clio, Opel/Vauxhall Corsa etc are very cheap compared to here in australia.........therefore Holden has attempted to lower the price of its current fleet by importing GM products from asia...

The price you would pay for a Holden "Corsa" here would be equivalent to buying an astra in the UK. Therefore, it is not a smart move to import them unless the exhange rate improves and ...thats how I see it anyways...

The asian Barina will improve with time(just like the Hyundai Getz which is as good as a Honda Jazz these days....)




Your probably right, and obviously have decided that they are focussing their small car market on a different category of driver.

IMO corsa SRI's are a comparative hatch to a number of other european hot hatches, their current fleet aint.

[Shaun]

The thing is in Europe, all these peugeot 206, Citroen C2, Renault clio, Opel/Vauxhall Corsa etc are very cheap compared to here in australia.........therefore Holden has attempted to lower the price of its current fleet by importing GM products from asia...

The price you would pay for a Holden "Corsa" here would be equivalent to buying an astra in the UK. Therefore, it is not a smart move to import them unless the exhange rate improves and ...thats how I see it anyways...

The asian Barina will improve with time(just like the Hyundai Getz which is as good as a Honda Jazz these days....)


Exactly what USC has said. Finally someone actually see the logic in why they are doing it.

I agree with SRICORSA though. It dosent match the European Built SRi But thats not what its intended to do.

[rjastra]

Satria
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/newreviews/207641/proton_satria_neo.html

Sounds like they have a winner on their hands with this. Manufacturers are rarely able to polish a turd into a diamond :)

Starts to make the korean Barina look good!

The previous Satria GTi used the 1.8 DOHC engine out of the similar chassied Lancer.

[bornwild]

Talk about weak arguements.
Bonnets open dont exactly mean the engines have let go. You just proved to me that you have no idea what your talking about. its rare to see a car new or within the 1st 4-5 years a major engine failure will occur. Yes its possible but extremely rare.
It means the engine needs some fresh air, perhaps? :D


As for the arguement that Proton are unable to build a 180kw Satria GTi . Thats has got to be one of the stupidest comments i have heard today.
I never said they couldn't build a 180kw engine.:rolleyes:


Its about exhange rates im talking about . considering to mod a European car it will cost you 3 times the sell price when converted from euro to Australian Dollar. The Australian dollar is stronger against the Malaysian Ringgit. Thats why Proton Cars are well priced. Not because the are poorly built like you all seem to claim.
Matter of fact is, they are poorly built. And relying on the argument "but ohh, it's a Lotus man" is very..err.....ironic, since Lotus themselves are known for poor quality.


Back to the Barina Argument
Im not going to be nice about this anymore. Stop being tools who think you all know more then thoses at Holden and GM who can produce a busniess plan and business case for the Daewoo based product over a Opel Sourced Corsa.
The CEO of Holden is an American fella, as you all know. Last year that guy signed a contract to build a new building for the Marketing and Sales department of Holden, estimated at around $2mil. He signed that contract whilst being under contract for renting out another building for exactly the same department for $2mil/year. Currently the Marketing and Sales department has 2 buildings. One is owned by Holden and they are paying of the loan, and another they are renting....but they're not using it. This argument gives me the right to say that the chiefs at Holden are dumb shits without brains.

And another argument of mine, it is un-Australian selling a car that has hardly scored 2 stars on the NCAP to Australians!! Some poor P-plater will probably drive it and, God-forbid, in case of an accident die due to the car having a very poor standard of safety.

Over and out, oh and Shaun...let's not make this personal, yeah? ;)

[pred8r]

I would not be suprised if Holden has signed supply contracts with GMDAT for X amount of units over Y years at $Z each.

Meaning even if the car was absolute doo-doo, unless GMDAT was at fault, there is nothing 'economic' that Holden can do about it.

As for the cost of the Opel sourced unit, when you are buying 20,000 of them over a few years, you are in a WHOLE different level of pricing.

You would probably find that Holden COULD maintain the pricing of the old one, they would not be making the same profit levels, causing their shareholders to eat them alive.

Its all about PROFIT, people, not Happy McHappy world, full of rainbows, sunshine and fluffy bunnies.........

How are their top level shareholders going to pay for their new Bentley GTC..............with the warm feeling of thanks.......yeah right.....

[bornwild]

How are their top level shareholders going to pay for their new Bentley GTC..............with the warm feeling of thanks.......yeah right.....

This about sums up the whole discussion. :rolleyes:

[Shaun]

It means the engine needs some fresh air, perhaps? :D


I never said they couldn't build a 180kw engine.:rolleyes:


Matter of fact is, they are poorly built. And relying on the argument "but ohh, it's a Lotus man" is very..err.....ironic, since Lotus themselves are known for poor quality.


The CEO of Holden is an American fella, as you all know. Last year that guy signed a contract to build a new building for the Marketing and Sales department of Holden, estimated at around $2mil. He signed that contract whilst being under contract for renting out another building for exactly the same department for $2mil/year. Currently the Marketing and Sales department has 2 buildings. One is owned by Holden and they are paying of the loan, and another they are renting....but they're not using it. This argument gives me the right to say that the chiefs at Holden are dumb shits without brains.

And another argument of mine, it is un-Australian selling a car that has hardly scored 2 stars on the NCAP to Australians!! Some poor P-plater will probably drive it and, God-forbid, in case of an accident die due to the car having a very poor standard of safety.

Over and out, oh and Shaun...let's not make this personal, yeah? ;)


Wasnt getting personal. But Alot of people here seem to think they know more then Holdens Techincal People and there Marketing People.

At the end of the day posting a new thread about it and crying " the Daewoo is shit " isnt going to make Holden Go " Ohh the Opelaus Members arent happy. Lets just bring the Opel Corsa back to Australia so they can smile again" is it .

Why do people keep flogging the dead horse here so to speak.

1st thread yeah can understand when the announcement was made. it was news. All the threads since. Waist of time. because its the same thing over and over.

One good thing with Holden Not bringing the Corsa to Australia has been the Astra Model Range increased in size and variants.

[OPC]

woohoo go the astra model range

[bornwild]

Well then why do we discuss anything?? ;)

[mr corsa]

i want one

[dug74]

i want one

Me too :clap:

Cheers
DUG74

[Shaun]

Well then why do we discuss anything?? ;)

But its the same shit that people keep discussing... how about some new topics.

[USC]

But its the same shit that people keep discussing... how about some new topics.

Just out of curiosity, do you work for Holden Shaun?

yeh, I reckon its great having such a big range of astra including the turbo, convertible, wagon, coupe, 5 door, sri 2.2, vxr, diesel etc etc. Holden should just improve spare parts stock.

we have the new VE commodore, so no need for the vectra really(i know the two dont compare, but for australian roads, the commodore is more suitable...

as for Corsa, its a shame we dont have the new range but we cant do anything about it, unless importing a second hand one from overseas if someone was really keen...

zafira-> was never a cool car anyways...

barina/viva/epica/captiva -> cheap 2 minute noodle for people with a tight budget

[pred8r]

zafira-> was never a cool car anyways...

Release the OPC/VXR version here and see what happens.....

http://www.boerse-online.de/static/bilder/auto/Opel_zafira_opc/opelza_opc_vorne_bg_16115.jpg
QUOTE - It is powered by the new 176 kW/240 hp 2.0-liter gasoline turbo engine, which is coupled with a six-speed manual transmission as in the Astra OPC. The powerful engine with maximum torque of 320 Newton meters takes the Zafira OPC from zero to 100 in just 7.8 seconds, and with a top speed of 231 km/h, makes it the fastest production van in Europe. (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2251/Opel-Zafira-OPC.html)

[Shaun]

Just out of curiosity, do you work for Holden Shaun?

yeh, I reckon its great having such a big range of astra including the turbo, convertible, wagon, coupe, 5 door, sri 2.2, vxr, diesel etc etc. Holden should just improve spare parts stock.

we have the new VE commodore, so no need for the vectra really(i know the two dont compare, but for australian roads, the commodore is more suitable...

as for Corsa, its a shame we dont have the new range but we cant do anything about it, unless importing a second hand one from overseas if someone was really keen...

zafira-> was never a cool car anyways...

barina/viva/epica/captiva -> cheap 2 minute noodle for people with a tight budget


No i work for Daimler Chrysler Australia / Pacific.... But give i deal with the same shit people post on here every day at work...(whinging and crying about things costing too much )

Parts Supply... Now your hitting even closer to home.... hehe ( Im involved in Parts for Daimler) They have plenty of stock.. Just not the parts you require... hehehe

[USC]

No i work for Daimler Chrysler Australia / Pacific.... But give i deal with the same shit people post on here every day at work...(whinging and crying about things costing too much )

Parts Supply... Now your hitting even closer to home.... hehe ( Im involved in Parts for Daimler) They have plenty of stock.. Just not the parts you require... hehehe


Thats awesome! I wish Holden would improve on spare parts stock for the Astra. A lot of things have to come from germany, which is quite annoying as it takes about 3-4 weeks to arrive! They have the basics but things like wiring loom, some trims etc have to be ordered from Opel.......I guess they are available...and thats what counts at the end of the day :)

Spare parts do cost a fair bit of money but if you are a regular customer and nice to the parts specialists, they give you trade price:D

RE: zafira....I dont see many people wanting to buy a hotted up mini bus!though it looks ok, I would rather buy an SUV(mitsubishi outlander..etc).

[USC]

Release the OPC/VXR version here and see what happens.....

http://www.boerse-online.de/static/bilder/auto/Opel_zafira_opc/opelza_opc_vorne_bg_16115.jpg
QUOTE - It is powered by the new 176 kW/240 hp 2.0-liter gasoline turbo engine, which is coupled with a six-speed manual transmission as in the Astra OPC. The powerful engine with maximum torque of 320 Newton meters takes the Zafira OPC from zero to 100 in just 7.8 seconds, and with a top speed of 231 km/h, makes it the fastest production van in Europe. (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2251/Opel-Zafira-OPC.html)


again, if you watch reviews, it may be the most powerful van but the chassis is useless in putting the power to the wheels.......the top gear guys reviewed it.

[dug74]

Exactly...like their OPC Vectra...all the power...no traction and crappy chassis.

Go a SUV ...as the mini van was the late 80's

Compact SUV is a very competitive market...so the Zafria wouldnt be able to compete on price.

CX7 is my choice ;)

Cheers
DUG74

[bornwild]

again, if you watch reviews, it may be the most powerful van but the chassis is useless in putting the power to the wheels.......the top gear guys reviewed it.

Good enough in a straight line.

Since when does Australia care about corners? Do 80% of drivers on our roads even know what corners are? :confused:

[USC]

Good enough in a straight line.

Since when does Australia care about corners? Do 80% of drivers on our roads even know what corners are? :confused:


Lol...yeh! so true!

[Shaun]

Thats awesome! I wish Holden would improve on spare parts stock for the Astra. A lot of things have to come from germany, which is quite annoying as it takes about 3-4 weeks to arrive! They have the basics but things like wiring loom, some trims etc have to be ordered from Opel.......I guess they are available...and thats what counts at the end of the day :)

Spare parts do cost a fair bit of money but if you are a regular customer and nice to the parts specialists, they give you trade price:D

RE: zafira....I dont see many people wanting to buy a hotted up mini bus!though it looks ok, I would rather buy an SUV(mitsubishi outlander..etc).

Its a night mare to decided whats going to be used from the start and when trims change like the weather its even harder to carry a good range .
Basics are always in the 1st stock intake of a new model. Then over time the work out the trends of whats used and bring them in. Wiring harness are a tricky one because normally the are expensive and not what you would call fast moving.

I work for the Heavy Vehicle side of Daimler so its twice as hard with working out what we need to stock. As a Truck or Bus / Coach is someones livelyhood and normally down times mean loss of income. Out of Germany it takes 2 weeks airfrieght for Our parts but can arrive with in a week if pushed hard.

as this thread is about an Asia built car alot of people here havent taken this into consideration. We have a Regional Logistics Centre in Singapore For Daimler Chrysler. What this doses is it cuts Lead times down to a 5-7 working days turn arround . But at times can be a 3 days.

GM could be going to do the same with there Parts Opreations in Aisa. As this would make the lead times drop to about 2 weeks for European Built Holden Products to reach the Holden National Parts Centre. There is good reasons GM bought Daewoo out . It would be far cheaper to purchase an existing company (that was in trouble) then to start from scratch.The Infrastructure alone to build a Disturbiton centre would have cost into the millons Its a large investment alone for a Parts Operation .Buying Daewoo out for GM has given them Plants Logistics for Parts which has cost them the fraction of the price to build a logistics centre and an a Larger Buying power world wide. When your buying 100,000 starter motors against buying 10,000 starter motors you increase the discount and your buying power by a Substernal amount.

[pred8r]

There is good reasons GM bought Daewoo out . It would be far cheaper to purchase an existing company (that was in trouble) then to start from scratch.

Daewoo was in trouble, I agree. Most people are probably unaware that the engine plant at fishermens bend had, not sure of current circumstances though, been building Daewoo engines for years, even before Daewoo went under.
When Daewoos bubble burst, they owed GM millions (possibly/probably 10's of) for what had already been supplied. Unless GM Holden could afford to take that hit, which I doubt unless the US GM stepped in to help, there was little option except for Daewoo to be bought outright.

Besides, all the extra R&D data, production (or close to) ready models and existing supply contracts HAVE to be worth something.

Take the TK Barina for example, sold here for years prior to Daewoos closure, essentially all the "real life" in-field testing done, making most of its faults now known. Let alone the amount already in production, sitting overseas waiting for delivery. It was a no-brainer for Holden to drop an aging model and bring in a 'new' one.
With the power of their Marketing department, and the reduced model costs, they are on a winner, and this is just mentioning the TK, not even considering Daewoos development in the production of the Viva, Epica and Captiva.

Then there's things we all know little about - the government import/export/employment/taxation subsidies involved.

[bornwild]

How is it a winner if they're not selling? I see more Corsa's around than the Kalos'...

[digifish]

How is it a winner if they're not selling? I see more Corsa's around than the Kalos'...

I was dropping in to ask the same thing.

digifish

[Shaun]

How arent they ? Holden have now opened up markets where the were able to sell to before.
The cheaper Barina is selling well according to the information released on market share.
The Viva is selling extremely well and is reasonable priced car for what it is.

Do you all need to be remind that the Opel Products have been cheap shit european cars that only have in recent years there product started to become decent in the last 4 or so years.

[luvpsi]

again, if you watch reviews, it may be the most powerful van but the chassis is useless in putting the power to the wheels.......the top gear guys reviewed it.

the top gear guys can say whatever they want... all of their vauxhall reviews (Astra VXR, Zafira VXR...) have been negative and I think they are just full of shit sometimes:mad:

[luvpsi]

Exactly...like their OPC Vectra...all the power...no traction and crappy chassis.

Go a SUV ...as the mini van was the late 80's

Compact SUV is a very competitive market...so the Zafria wouldnt be able to compete on price.

CX7 is my choice ;)

Cheers
DUG74

Not sure if you ever been to europe but no-one drives SUV's over there. The minivan market is still big with all European manufacturers (Peugeout, Renault, Opel, Fiat, VW, Mercedes...) competing hard in this area and 90% of them are diesel:) can't get a CX7 in diesel can you? also whats the average fuel consumption of a CX7 ???

[USC]

Not sure if you ever been to europe but no-one drives SUV's over there. The minivan market is still big with all European manufacturers (Peugeout, Renault, Opel, Fiat, VW, Mercedes...) competing hard in this area and 90% of them are diesel:) can't get a CX7 in diesel can you? also whats the average fuel consumption of a CX7 ???


To be honest, I would much rather have a CX7 than a zafira...reminds me too much of the crappy nimbus a mate used to have at uni!! hahaha...

In aus, u see a lot more SUV`s than mini vans....

[bornwild]

Do you all need to be remind that the Opel Products have been cheap shit european cars that only have in recent years there product started to become decent in the last 4 or so years.

Don't think you're qualified to say it. I am very qualified to tell you that you're wrong about that however. Opel has always had great cars, from the Manta onto the Omega onto the Vectras.

[Charlatan]

..........

[USC]

lol!! omg, this is funny as!

Opel has been making quality astras for a while. The MK3 was a beautiful car!!

[Shaun]

Don't think you're qualified to say it. I am very qualified to tell you that you're wrong about that however. Opel has always had great cars, from the Manta onto the Omega onto the Vectras.

Your Qualified to tell us what ??? Please do tell us......


See its not nice to bag out something people may like as it got your back up. exactly what i wanted to do.... Maybe you will all think about that next time you bag out the Daewoo Products holden import and spare a thought and think about those who have bought a daewoo sourced product from Holden. As these people who are buying them may only be able to afford a Cheaper Holden. At the end of the day it maybe it is there pride and Joy. (as i seen someone today with a Viva With a Body kit and rims) And they are happy with there purchase and TBH there car looks nice. Its was clean and it looked sporty.

So Again Im sick to death of hearing bullshit of " ohh the corsa shouldnt have been dropped" Get over it. if your all that desperate to have a Corsa. Have one imported privately from England.

[bornwild]

I'm qualified to say that Opel have always had quality products, cause I've lived my whole life in Europe....well up until 2002.

[Shaun]

I'm qualified to say that Opel have always had quality products, cause I've lived my whole life in Europe....well up until 2002.

That dont make you Qualified though. Its an Opinon yes. But not Qualified.
There are some Qualtiy things in the Opel Product. a strong built body yes. Safe built car yes. But they have a lot of problems with it too. And they are not little problems. Water Pumps failing @ 35,000km on a TS SRi Turbo Astra isnt Quality by anyone standards.Thats just one issue i can list. Keep it in prespective

[luvpsi]

I'm qualified to say that Opel have always had quality products, cause I've lived my whole life in Europe....well up until 2002.

Opel do make good products its true. But in Europe, Opel and lets say VW are not regarded to be in the same league:( Opel to Europe is like Holden to Australia - good quality for the $$$ and affordable to most people... VW, Audi, etc have always been in league above and there is a reason for that.

Also, I just returned from Europe 3 weeks ago, and Opel's diesel motors have a bad name over there because of premature pump failures... but on the other hand petrol models are highly respected and hold their value much better than in Australia:D

[bornwild]

Opel do make good products its true. But in Europe, Opel and lets say VW are not regarded to be in the same league:( Opel to

You're wrong there. Over there, Astra and Golf battle it out in the same 'premium hatch' league. Focus, Mazda3, Corolla and the others are a class below.

And VW is like Holden to Australia in Germany....hence the name, Volkswagen.

[bornwild]

That dont make you Qualified though. Its an Opinon yes. But not Qualified.
There are some Qualtiy things in the Opel Product. a strong built body yes. Safe built car yes. But they have a lot of problems with it too. And they are not little problems. Water Pumps failing @ 35,000km on a TS SRi Turbo Astra isnt Quality by anyone standards.Thats just one issue i can list. Keep it in prespective

But that's a turbocharged product mate....Every single company has recalls these days, even Merc and BMW and the 'highly' regarded Toyota(&Lexus).

[bornwild]

Water Pumps failing @ 35,000km on a TS SRi Turbo Astra isnt Quality by anyone standards.Thats just one issue i can list. Keep it in prespective

One quick question: Is this a large scale problem?

[Shaun]

One quick question: Is this a large scale problem?

Considering the Water pump moves water through the gallerys of the engine block which keep the engine from over heading then i would say its a large scale problem.

With out sufficient cooling engines tend to over heat which cause other problems such as blown head gaskets and the head to warp.

But again your Qualified to comment about this all where as im not. (Well so you are leading everyone to believe) It was a known Problem on the TS SRi T (Z20LET) both here and over seas.

Now getting back on track . to thoses who say the Barina isnt selling well do you home work. Because i think you will find it is out selling the XC Barina.

[Shaun]

But that's a turbocharged product mate....Every single company has recalls these days, even Merc and BMW and the 'highly' regarded Toyota(&Lexus).

Are you that stupid ??? Honestly Any product these days with a water pump failing @ 35000km has a problem. I dont care if it is turboed supercharged or N/A. The fact is any product with a Water pump failing @ 35,000km has a real qaulity problem. The TS SRi Turbo had many cases of it. It was a Known problem here and overseas.

Again for the people in the back who seem to be hard of hearing. 35,000km life span on a water pump isnt quality. It is complete and utter rubbish.

Not even the Barina or Viva have that reliablity issue.

[bornwild]

Are you that stupid ???Calm down, kiddo. ;)


I asked, "Is the water pump failing a large scale problem?" not "What is a water pump?".

And performance products are more prone to mechanical failures, Opel is no exception. As for the water pump failing at 35000km, I'd love to see some reliable facts on that; not taking your word for it.

[digifish]

Again for the people in the back who seem to be hard of hearing. 35,000km life span on a water pump isnt quality. It is complete and utter rubbish.

Shaun, every car and make has it's weak-spots. I don't see anything unique in the Opel failures that I don't also see in VW, BMW, Mercedies etc. Just hang out on some other forums for a while...here's a nice jumping in point...pick your brand...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeromain?id=149

digifish

[rjastra]

You're wrong there. Over there, Astra and Golf battle it out in the same 'premium hatch' league. Focus, Mazda3, Corolla and the others are a class below.

And VW is like Holden to Australia in Germany....hence the name, Volkswagen.

The Astra, Golf, Focus, Megane, Corolla, Civic are all in the same class both here and in Europe.

But, when it comes to the topsepc models its the Golf Gti, Megane 225 and Focus ST/XR5 that battle it out.

[USC]

You're wrong there. Over there, Astra and Golf battle it out in the same 'premium hatch' league. Focus, Mazda3, Corolla and the others are a class below.

And VW is like Holden to Australia in Germany....hence the name, Volkswagen.

I agree Astra is a great car but I dont think astras or golfs are better than a mazda 3/honda civic etc...The mazda 3 has pretty good built quality!

[bornwild]

The Astra, Golf, Focus, Megane, Corolla, Civic are all in the same class both here and in Europe.

But, when it comes to the topsepc models its the Golf Gti, Megane 225 and Focus ST/XR5 that battle it out.

Not quite. Megane's are like Daewoos here. Astra and Golf are 'premium' hatch territory whereas the Focus is everyone's car. The Asian cars don't sell too well. Then again my definition of Europe excludes the UK.

[bornwild]

I agree Astra is a great car but I dont think astras or golfs are better than a mazda 3/honda civic etc...The mazda 3 has pretty good built quality!

Mazda3=Ford Focus....same car really, :p:p

[dug74]

Mazda3=Ford Focus....same car really, :p:p

Same chassis....thats where it stops...

Ford use Mazda engines...

Ford make the car....Mazda make it better <eg Focus - M3, Mondeo - M6>

Also....I think Opel have quality products...for europe...we get the rubbish sent over here.

As for the minivan thing...yep..minivans are huge in europe...but they aint huge here..and that was my point...minivans left australia in the late 80..early 90's..when the SUV revolution happened with RAV4, CRV and many more..

I think most ppl would pick a CX-7 over a Tarago...anyday.

As for your other points...the *hot* hatch market is huge in UK/Europe and has become huge here....

They are all good car...some have better advantages than others...but its all personal opinion. So if some 18yo wants to buy a Barina or Viva...i support them...as they are better than the rubbish i was driving @ 18. <Holden Camira>

You seriously all need to think *NATIONAL* and even *GLOBAL* rather than just *Opelaus*...you are a small percentage of sales in Australia.

And if holden continued to sell Barinas and Vectra below cost...they would go under...hence they decided to get cheaper cars to make more profit...not really *stupid* if you ask me...becoz its how COMMERCE works. Why try and beat the largest competitive market with european cars when all the others are cheap korean or japanese cars.

Each to their own...this topic will continue forever and ever as each new model is produced.....lets all face the facts.. the OPEL CORSA is dead in Australia. You had the last model <XC>, feel proud....oh and i used to own one....so I know. I also wouldnt call them quality.....maybe better safety and looks...but the TK has better BFYB with options.

Cheers
DUG74

[OPC]

Same chassis....thats where it stops...

Ford use Mazda engines...

Cheers
DUG74

i thought Ford uses a Volvo engine for the XR5

[pred8r]

i thought Ford uses a Volvo engine for the XR5

ford/volvo are one and the same (mostly)

[bornwild]

Yeap, ...Ford uses the 2.0L which is designed by Mazda, but both use Ford Duratorq engines. As for Mazda making the Mondeo better...LOL......we'll see about that....ohh and Focus is the better handler(if not the best in class) and the XR5 is miles better than your SP23 :p:p:p:p
And yes, Ford Germany has developed the chassis for the Focus/Mazda3 and Mondeo/Mazda6 range.

And yes Dug you are right, we do get the rubbish here....and No, I wouldn't let a poor 18yr old buy a Barina or Viva because of the lack of safety.

[cyclonic]

Far out, i've started some shit here!




Still hate that TK Barina but. :D

[dug74]

and the XR5 is miles better than your SP23 :p:p:p:p.

I would hope a XR5 is miles better than a SP23...being a 2.5L Turbo against a N/A 2.3L....but i dont own a SP23....i have a MPS...totally different league...and i wouldnt say the XR5 is better...no cruise control, 166kw, 320Nm $1800 premium paint option, long lead times <4 months wait>....only advantage...they handle a little better.

And if you wanna be exact.... Ford, Mazda and Volvo all make a MPS.

Ford = chassis
Mazda = engine (2.3L 4cyl DISI Turbo)
Volvo = brakes (from the S40/60)

Cheers
DUG74

[bornwild]

I know I know I'm just kidding. :)
What has to be noted is that, Ford and Mazda may have the same chassis but they follow a completely different philosophy of car-making. I prefer Ford Germany's philosophy.

Anyhow, yeah that TK Barina should be banned from our streets simply because it poses a health risk. Same like with cigarettes....they should have an age limit on the TK Barina.

[Shaun]

Calm down, kiddo. ;)


I asked, "Is the water pump failing a large scale problem?" not "What is a water pump?".

And performance products are more prone to mechanical failures, Opel is no exception. As for the water pump failing at 35000km, I'd love to see some reliable facts on that; not taking your word for it.

Are you kidding you dont know what a Water Pump is ???
No matter if its on a Preformance Car or an every day car it is still a Quality problem.

[USC]

LOL!! does that mean old cars like charades, old 206`s, old clio`s, old starlets, old getz`s should all be wiped out?? I think the TK would be better than those.... Im not saying the TK is a great car but it s certainly better than most of old cars out there.




I know I know I'm just kidding. :)
What has to be noted is that, Ford and Mazda may have the same chassis but they follow a completely different philosophy of car-making. I prefer Ford Germany's philosophy.

Anyhow, yeah that TK Barina should be banned from our streets simply because it poses a health risk. Same like with cigarettes....they should have an age limit on the TK Barina.

[bornwild]

I don't think the Charades are being sold any more...nor the old clios, starlets or getzs...;) Oh and I doubt this TK Barina is safety wise better than any of those aforementioned cars.

[dug74]

I don't think the Charades are being sold any more...nor the old clios, starlets or getzs...;) Oh and I doubt this TK Barina is safety wise better than any of those aforementioned cars.

I beg to differ...with dual airbags...its already safer.

So...any car today..whether it costs $15K or $100K ....its still safer than a car of the same league back in 1990.

Cheers
DUG74

[bornwild]

The old clios and the old getz come with dual air-bags.....don't they?...and 1990 is looking a bit tooooo far back....I was thinking more like 2000-2002 models :)

[J]

I beg to differ...with dual airbags...its already safer.

So...any car today..whether it costs $15K or $100K ....its still safer than a car of the same league back in 1990.

Cheers
DUG74

I suppose with any rules, there are exceptions :)

My Mum (and the two kids she was giving a ride home to at the time), all walked about of a 60km/h smash into a power pole years ago, in a 1992 Magna. Someone L-boned her into it. The whole front of the car has caved in, and it barely cost $3k less than its worth at the time to repair. No airbag, no ABS: simply the strong structure that saved her. I will see if I can find a pic...found it (see below).

I was and still is very thankful she wasn't in a lesser car...

[Red AH SRI T]

More pics:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-6.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-5.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-4.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-3.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-2.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wall-1.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/ozastra/Chevrolet-Aveo_2008_800x600_wallpap.jpg

Twin exhausts???!!!


from www.netcarshow.com

[Wraith]

DOH ! pics no workie..........

[Red AH SRI T]

hows that?

[USC]

this looks hot man!! I wouldnt mind one!

[rjastra]

Its essentially a major midlife facelift.

Did anyone see the latest FIfth Gear? They crashed a 1990's Volvo 940 estate into a 3 yr old Renault Modus (think astra sized). Each was going 40mph and it was an offset crash.

The Modus DEMOLISHED the Volvo. Minimal interior intrusion, Doors all opened. Airbags worked a treat. Every chance the passengers would walk away with minimal injuries

In the volvo the dashboard and wheel had pushed back on the driver and the floor of the car was heavily distorted. The driver would have ahd to be cut out of the wreck. Severe life threatening injuries occurred.

Also, cars don't hit poles at 60km/h and only receive the damage witnessed in the photo of the Magna. It hit at a much lower speed.

[Skribble]

I don't actually mind it, hated it in the first pic, but those new red ones look alright.



Also, cars don't hit poles at 60km/h and only receive the damage witnessed in the photo of the Magna. It hit at a much lower speed.

As he said, it's not like she drove into the pole at 60km/h she was going that speed and got hit, probably spun into it. The main point is, a worse car might have taken life threatening damage, but magna's are built strong.

[J]

I don't actually mind it, hated it in the first pic, but those new red ones look alright.


Also, cars don't hit poles at 60km/h and only receive the damage witnessed in the photo of the Magna. It hit at a much lower speed.

As he said, it's not like she drove into the pole at 60km/h she was going that speed and got hit, probably spun into it. The main point is, a worse car might have taken life threatening damage, but magna's are built strong.

Thank you Skribble for backing me up. Much appreciated. Fact is, although Mum didn't drive into it, she was pushed into it!

rjastra: Not sure if I really want to say much more here...alright, I will.

This happened in afternoon peak hour. After the green at First Avenue, Mum was the first of a bunch of cars coming down the hill on the left lane of Blaxland Road at Eastwood (Sydney-siders should know this!), as per the pic. At the time, the right lane was jammed with cars waiting to turn right into Balaclava Road, as is the case during peak hour, and illustrated by the photo.

The collision occurred at the Blaxland Road/May Street intersection. It was caused by an elderly gentleman in a vintage Corolla, that was turning into May Street from Blaxland Road, in the oncoming direction. May Street is the street where the white van (Toyota Coaster) is coming out from, in the picture.

The way I see how it all happened, from his POV: he had the solid green, but not the green right arrow, otherwise my Mum would have the red. He couldn't see whether there were any cars coming down the left lane, because his view was blocked by the cars piled up on the right lane. So after he waited for a while, he decided to go in "blind"...right at the same time as my Mum was entering the intersection ><

Due to the "blind area" caused by the right lane pile up, my Mum didn't see him coming, nor would she expect to. He hit my Mum at the driver's side, at the front right wheel. She did not spin, because she had much greater momentum. Instead, she was knocked off-course towards the left, and promptly collected the first available power pole at the other side of the intersection.

The police and tow truck came soon afterwards. Records indicate the elderly gentleman was in a critical condition. I pray that he made it into full recovery (I wanted to find out, but was not able to). In contrast, my Mum walked out with a slight whiplash. The 2 kids sitting at the back received minor seatbelt abrasions. Mum said her Magna was smoking out the front afterwards, but it did save her life as well as the kids'.

At that incline, even if she had 0.25 of a second to brake, the collision speed would not have been less than 50km/h.

The car was finally written off when I was driving it, in Jan 2006. It was hit from behind by a lady in a Mazda 121 "bubble". She failed to see me sitting there waiting to turn right from Blaxland Road into King Street. I spotted her in my mirrors first, coming in from 100m away, because we were the only two cars going in that direction within view (which made the crash all the more infuriating!). Thinking she would undertake me as any driver would, my attention went back to look for a gap in the traffic to turn. By the time I realised something wasn't right, and glanced in the mirror again, she was merely 20m behind me, coming in at full speed! It was too late for me to accelerate out of trouble: I simply sank my head into the head restraint, stood on the brakes (I didn't want to be pushed into oncoming traffic!), and braced myself for the inevitable crunch.

I heard no screech: she must've braked really late, if not at all. How fast do you think that would've been, rjastra? 50km/h? I just felt an almighty shove forward, and I thought I was gone then and there! But my car rolled only about 1-1.5m forward, it was still driveable (I was able to put on my hazards and pull over to the left lane, whereas her car stayed where it hit!), and as I got out and assessed the damage, only 1/4 to 1/3 of my boot was caved in. I will find a picture again for you rjastra (the car is modded by then!). As mentioned, the car was still driveable afterwards, but was written off because it'd have cost more to fix than what it was worth. Which was when I moved on to the Corsa and now the Astra...and into this wonderful community :) But not before I had to hear her excuse: she was rushing for a job interview, and was not paying attention. Driving, a potentially lethal activity? On a public road shared with others? It's insane!

It is true, rjastra, that in general you wouldn't want to be in an early 90's car (if not even earlier!) in any crash. But if I have no choice, then (given a limited budget) I'd rather be in a good condition 1991+ TR Magna or a Volvo 850 (but that's a bit more expensive!). In case you don't know, the Magna was the first of the 4 big locals to employ high tensile steel throughout its constructon. You can literally knock on the bodyshell and *hear* the difference! Hence our choice as our first family car back then.

As I've said previously: there are exceptions to the rule, and both my Mum and I lived to tell the tale! Thank God :)

Back on topic: the red does seem to suit this Barina better. But the front end treatment is still not my cup of tea: looks very much the afterthought that it is...not entirely cohesive! Having said that, I can't wait to see what they can do with a clean sheet at the next model cycle!

[skulless]

what is the point of holden sourcing the models from daewoo? i know it's the cost factor, but most ppl would prefer to buy a toyota or honda because of it's looks n quality.

[digifish]

BTW: This shows small doesn't have to mean dangerous too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVNUvixWUQ

digifish

[rjastra]

My Mum (and the two kids she was giving a ride home to at the time), all walked about of a 60km/h smash into a power pole years ago....

People seriously over-estimate impact speeds.

[Skribble]

BTW: This shows small doesn't have to mean dangerous too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVNUvixWUQ

digifish


While that does show safety, if you look at the top down view, the entire dash etc. of the smart car is compacted into the drivers space. The short hood leaves the driver etc. much more likely to get crushed, or fly out the windscreen. That was a controlled test, there's no telling it will happen like that every single time... probably be worse if hit diagonally etc.

Then look at the mercedes, (e class?) the engine crumples, nothing comes close to the driver/passengers at all.

[Shaun]

How is it a winner if they're not selling? I see more Corsa's around than the Kalos'...

FFS bornsoft... Go and do you HOMEWORK. Have alook at the Market share figures . Rather then talking shit all day everyday.. Market Share figures dont lie because they are based on Units registered. And if your registering units then your selling units because no dealer or manafacturer will register units and leave them stilling on the lot or in a holding yard. Granted Manfactuers will do this as lease cars to internal employees but its still not going to push the sales up by mega amounts. it will possibly give them about .1% of market share .

[bornwild]

You are one frustrated little man shaun....

[Skribble]

Hostility much?

[Shaun]

You are one frustrated little man shaun....

CHILLAX bornsoft!!! Stop posting dumb comments and people might back off with giving you shit...

[Red AH SRI T]

That time of the month? :evil:

[btm]

this has been another presentation by.... :D

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1135/rrlogo2sju9.jpg

[bornwild]

That time of the month? :evil:

I reckon :D:D:D *passes panadol to shaun*

[reedaaron]

this has been another presentation by.... :D

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1135/rrlogo2sju9.jpg

funniest thing i've seen all day :D

[btm]

NB. i wasnt having a go at anyone with that post... just thought it was funny and i am bored at work :D

[Shaun]

I reckon :D:D:D *passes panadol to shaun*

Bornsoft considering your the one who gets cut i think you should take something for the period pain.. and if it consist then see your doctor...

[Skribble]

I didn't know persist was spelt with a c.... :D

Anyway back on topic... if it wasn't for the front bar it would be pretty sexy... needs improvements.