My Vectra is sick

[RobotWarrior]

Gday gang,

As some of you were aware from a previous post I was getting my belts and water pump done. Well that was 3 days ago and My baby is currently having open heart surgery:(. When the mechanic was putting on the belt he let go of the cam on the 1-3-5 bank. To cut a long story short my head is off and getting new valves:mad:, and my 2-4-6 bank has either a busted head gasket or some other problem relating to compression. So although my babe was running fine she wasn't far from having a complete hissy on me:eek:. Now I have to get both heads pulled off and replace all gaskets and have pressure tests or something done on the valves to see if they are seating properly. my compression tests were as follows Cylinder 1-125 Cylinder 3-0 Cylinder 5-130 Cylinder 2-125 Cylinder 4-125 Cylinder 6-125. I don't even know what those numbers mean, are they PSi or what:confused: and does anyone know what the compression should be??
Anyways thats enough of me moaning I'm off to have a couple of stiff Scotches. Any help you can give would be much appreciated and I'll raise a toast to you;)

Cheers Robot.

[Bill_G]

Sorry to hear of your Vectra woes - I'd be gutted if it was mine, and I hope the mechanic who ****ed-up is doing all necessary repair work at NO charge to you whatsoever. That's an unforgivable mistake on his part IMO, and something you might expect from a 1st year apprentice, but certainly not a fully qualified motor mechanic! :(

BTW, if they try it on, under no circumstances should you agree to pay anything other than the original quoted cost of the cam belt and tensioners, and water pump replacement. They're 100% responsible for any extra expenses incurred, and will have to wear it whether they like it or not. If they argue the point, take it to the Dept of Fair Trading or the ACCC (and tell them you're doing so).

The compression values are in psi (pounds per square inch) and while they're all a tad lower than I'd expect (around 140psi is better), it's more important that they all read much the same as each other. Clearly the valves are stuffed on cylinder 3 as there's no compression at all.

Is it being done by a friend or a dealer? If the latter, would you mind saying which dealer, so I'll know never to take either of our 2 Vectra Bs anywhere near the incompetent fools? Good luck, and I hope it all works out happily in the end. :)

[RobotWarrior]

Hey Bill,
yeah he has already agreed to fix the damage at his expense, he has already sent the head off to get done. everything on that side of it is sweet. He is not a Holden dealer just local mechanic. On the Positive side, I would not have known about the other head if he hadn't of made a fubar, He has been good and totally professional about it so far. I guess these things do happen occasionally even to the best of us. Its just a shit that it happened to me!
Thanks for the info on compression. Do you think it is likely the low numbers are the result of a blown head gasket? Cause I'm hoping thats all it is!
Cheers Robot.

[Bill_G]

I'm glad that the issue of responsibility has been worked out, and it sounds like your mechanic has indeed been quite decent about it. You're very lucky though. Had it been a GM dealer, you'd have had a real fight on your hands. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt... :mad:

Not knowing exactly how he measured the compression, I can't really say if they're reading too low, because the longer the starter motor is run, the higher the readings will be (up to a point). As I said before, it's far more important that they all read about the same value, and cylinder #3 clearly does not.

As the heads are coming off, the gaskets will all need to be replaced anyway, but had one of them blown, I'd have expected to see either two adjacent cylinders reading very low, or if it had blown towards the water jacket, your oil would be thick and creamy like mayonnaise. If the coolant in the expansion tank was clear, then I very much doubt that either head gasket was blown.

It sounds like only some of the valves have been damaged and are not closing fully on cylinder #3, which is why there's no compression. I'm a bit intrigued as to why he'd suspect a blown head gasket on 2-4-6 when they all read much the same 125psi compression though.

No matter, at least it should be almost like new when you finally get it back. BTW, if you don't mind my asking, how much did he initially quote you to replace the cam belt, tensioners, and the water pump? A GM dealership should have quoted 4.5 hours labour plus parts, which, depending upon their markup, should come to a total of no less than $1200 (and probably a lot more). :(

[RobotWarrior]

Hey Bill sorry was in Cunnamulla for a few days! GM quoted me $1550 for belts etc only, This guy quoted $1020 including a service, now god only knows what the bill is going to be!:confused:

[auzvectra]

so the issue is a lot worse then what i thought it would have been when u rang me, all u said was it was running rough, damn that isnt good.
did you end up being able to read the fault codes?

[RobotWarrior]

yeah mate the fault codes came back as missing on cylinder 3. just waiting for him to put it all back together now. Ok so heres the long version!!!! did the belts and pump and started her up she was running like shit, tried to get the fault codes but to no avail so I ran matt, then he found after compression test that No 3 had 0 compression, when he removed the head yep bent the valves. while the head was off he discovered a leak from both the top of the block, (its like a cover plate with two pipes coming out of it and also a second leak from under the other head. there was rust and also a funny build up, kinda like expanding foam? IE no more gaps. around a couple of the bolts. so he removed the head and got it machined as well???? I am still not sure if that was necessary but hey I can't do much about it now. Also found that the engine support mount from the firewall to the rear timing belt side of the engine was ****ed out and needed replacing. So yeah not real happy but I suppose at least I will have good compression again when I get her back. I had felt for some time that she was a bit sluggish, but I'm not sure if that was just me or not! Anywasy just waiting to see the bill you guys might need to come see me in hospital! (Possible Cardiac arrest Imminent) LOL Ill make sure you know where I am! :P

[Bill_G]

Hey Bill sorry was in Cunnamulla for a few days! GM quoted me $1550 for belts etc only, This guy quoted $1020 including a service, now god only knows what the bill is going to be!:confused:Lucky you! I bet it was nice and cold out there the past few mornings, too! :(

Anyway, why should the bill be any higher than the initial $1020 that he quoted you? If he's admitted liability (and it appears that he has) then any extra costs are his responsibility, not yours, and if he expects you to contribute a percentage towards the costs, then he should have come to an agreement with you before going ahead with the extra work.

The bottom line is that even if your engine did require further work, it wouldn't have been obvious had he not botched the belt replacement in the first place, and the right way to have gone about it would be for him to have checked for any other issues before he started on your job, and quoted you on the cost of fixing them first. For example, the engine's worn torque mount should have been immediately obvious to him, yet he said nothing about it.

The fact that it was difficult, if not impossible to tell that more work was required until he'd removed the heads is unfortunately his problem, as the heads wouldn't have even needed removing had he done the original job properly in the first place, and I'm wondering if the leak he's talking about is from the oil cooler which he's likely disturbed when working on the heads.

I realise it seems a bit harsh, but I've spent most of my life in both electrical and mechanical service industries, and these things happen occasionally. And when they do, as a repairer, although you mightn't like it, you simply have to wear it regardless.

If he does the right thing and covers the extra expense himself, he'll have the added advantage of keeping you as a very grateful and faithful client, and should eventually recover much of his losses due to your continued patronage in the future, which he clearly won't have if he adopts the attitude that it's you who should be paying for the extra work.

[RobotWarrior]

Lucky you! I bet it was nice and cold out there the past few mornings, too! :(

Yeah It was good, we drove out(in a borrowed car) and it was -4 at Gatton @ 6:30Am. Cunnamulla was good got cool real quick on sundown and the mornings were crisp, but not as low as Gatton on the way out! nearly hit half a dozen Roos(they travel in pairs you just miss the first one and the second one comes out of the Scrub) on the way back and a couple of Emus. They are scarey beasts, running along side the car and then Bam they turn on a dime and they are running straight at ya! Stupid things, but geez they are quick! Drove for a good 4 hours without seeing another Car on the Road.