Mps 2 . [Archive] - OpelAus Forums

Shaun

15th July 2007, 12:51 AM

If this is not a Miss print Look out. The MPS 2 is going to eat everything out there including Mazda's own MPS3.

160KW . and for 28-29k mark. 2 Litre Turbo. If Mazda can pull it off with the Handling i dare say the golf is about to loss its bench mark of the Hot Hatch Segment.

Whats everyones thoughts on it ?
Miss print or Mazda have a real contender ???

http://www.caradvice.com.au/3702/mazda2-mps/#comment-19530

blueraven

15th July 2007, 12:58 AM

ugly has new meaning.

But for that money and that engine....will it will be very hard to beat for value.

EL BURITO

15th July 2007, 02:11 AM

give me leather option and i will buy it.

i could cope with the extra doors.

on another point stats sound good lets just see if thats wat they reach our shores at and at a resnable price. but in that price range it gos well against the compitition.

Polo GTI- 29K
XR4 - 25K
Rally art- 29K

should fit in there well at that price disadvatage is there will end up being a few on the road

Ishley

15th July 2007, 10:22 AM

Ugly yes...

But it also looks rather plain for an MPS model..... Really looks like a top of the line 2, not the sports model MPS.

I dont like it, I dont like the Polo either. The XR4 and Ralliart Colt are the only 2 that appeal to me. From all reports the XR4 is a corker through the corners! It has the looks aswell.

Having driven the Ralliart Colt, it is punchy and responsive through the corners aswell. Only negitive would be the questionable styling, but i happen to like it.

Shaun

15th July 2007, 10:27 AM

Its a pic of a Base model though.

Ishley

15th July 2007, 10:50 AM

Its a pic of a Base model though.
Oh that would explain it then......:o

pred8r

15th July 2007, 12:14 PM

LAA DEE DAA DEE DAAA

digifish

15th July 2007, 12:44 PM

If Mazda can pull it off with the Handling i dare say the golf is about to loss its bench mark of the Hot Hatch Segment.

The golf is always held up as the best balance of performance, handling, space/practicality and quality.

Many cars beat the Golf in terms of performance and or handling.

I doubt the Mazda will sway journos away from the Golf.

digifish

dieselhead

15th July 2007, 12:48 PM

"A senior Mazda product manager also denied our earlier report (http://www.caradvice.com.au/3702/mazda2-mps/) that the Mazda2 MPS (MPS 2) will make its way to Australia in the next few years."

http://www.caradvice.com.au/3805/2008-mazda3-diesel/

Shaun

15th July 2007, 04:06 PM

The golf is always held up as the best balance of performance, handling, space/practicality and quality.

Many cars beat the Golf in terms of performance and or handling.

I doubt the Mazda will sway journos away from the Golf.

digifish

They already have started too. They have said its dull compared to the others in the market in the power stakes and looks department. XR5 T is much better value for money then a Golf GTI.

Dont under Estimate Mazda Mazda Quality over the last 5-6 years has improved and keeps im proving and Volkwagen isnt anything of prestege. They have only picked up there game since they bought Audi. Remember Volkswagen is " The Peoples Car" and in Germany its seens no more then Nissan is here. Common .

OZChris

15th July 2007, 04:28 PM

The choice is the small hot hatch market is fantastic, it would certainly be difficult to choose if you were in the market :)

Wraith

15th July 2007, 05:42 PM

Not a missprint....It does look like Mazdas doing an MPS2 and I don't mind it's styling - at least what little bit you get to see from that pic that's going around, it's lines and proportioning are quite neat IMO.

This ones being up and discussed on the OzMazda forum for ages now...

I'm sure 'Dug' will fill us in with all the details.

RobotWarrior

15th July 2007, 06:11 PM

It does have that "last Chicken in the Shop" look about it! but a aftermarket bumper and grill would do some wonders and the green doesn't do it any favours either!

digifish

15th July 2007, 07:15 PM

The choice is the small hot hatch market is fantastic, it would certainly be difficult to choose if you were in the market :)

Well, with the shift to smaller cars the manufacturers are scrambling to get the prices and so margin up.

digifish

rjastra

16th July 2007, 10:24 AM

I'll call the bluff and say it wont have a 2L turbo engine.

The catch is Europe and its emission (Co2 essentially) standards and fuel prices. It's competitors are all moving to smaller capacity engines (next Polo, 500, Fiesta, etc) with the high powered versions using small capacities with turbos. Plug a 2L Turbo into the Mazda2 and it effectively taxes itself out of the market.

I reckon a 1.5L turbo version is more likely with about 100-120kW. There is no requirement for much more as the MAzda 2 weighs in under 1000kg!

Give it 160kW and it would be the fastest car in the Mazda fleet. Cheapest car = fastest? How the hell does that boost Mazda's prestige?

EL BURITO

16th July 2007, 10:26 AM

it would be fun thou. even if u got a bit of wheel spin. dosnt the tax thou also effect the Festiva St? or is that due to lack of turbo cos its still a 2L

blueraven

16th July 2007, 11:07 AM

I reckon a 1.5L turbo version is more likely with about 100-120kW. There is no requirement for much more as the MAzda 2 weighs in under 1000kg!

Give it 160kW and it would be the fastest car in the Mazda fleet. Cheapest car = fastest? How the hell does that boost Mazda's prestige?

Either way, it wont be faster than the MPS3 regardless of what engine they put in. Although i would say they are completely different class of car...

OPC

16th July 2007, 11:18 AM

they say it will be up against the ralliart colt and XR4 ?

with that power (160kw if true) more likely XR5 and SRi T... and maybe even the VXR

EL BURITO

16th July 2007, 11:23 AM

they say it will be up against the ralliart colt and XR4 ?

with that power (160kw if true) more likely XR5 and SRi T... and maybe even the VXR
the power Vs weight ratio would be huge

dieselhead

16th July 2007, 11:25 AM

I'll tell you what would be fun to drive: a Polo GTI version with the 1.4 litre twincharge engine, as used on the Golf GT. 125 kW from a light engine there, between the front tyres, should handle pretty well.

Not sure you guys read my previous post... There's going to be no MPS2 in Oz. We are missing out again, just like we do with Corsa VXR and a few other brilliant little 'uns...

gman

16th July 2007, 12:28 PM

Thought they were still considering the Corsa VXR for Oz?

OPC

16th July 2007, 12:38 PM

Thought they were still considering the Corsa VXR for Oz?

that was my impression too...

matsholden would know or bornwild... they know everything

gman

16th July 2007, 12:44 PM

that was my impression too...

matsholden would know or bornwild... they know everything

I know nothin'...

I'm still trying to figure out how to walk and breathe at the same time...Takes forever to get anywhere when you gotta hold your breath and stop after every 10 steps...

Counting that high's really hard too.....

dieselhead

16th July 2007, 12:51 PM

I'm sure it has been said before: these high power models are used for lifting the base model's prestige, sort of speak ;) You know, wannabes that are driving a yellow vanilla Lancer with a huge wing at the back, pretending they're behing Evo's wheel...
Now, why would Holden/HSV bring over the Corsa VXR? How exactly would that increase the sales numbers for the Korea sourced Barina?! Also, I'm pretty sure the Mazda 2 will sell very well for 2-3 year and there's no need for a high powered MPS2 to boost sales. Think about it, how many years between Mazda launching the 6 and 3 models before the MPS's became available?

JohnBu

16th July 2007, 01:12 PM

i like it the design..

can't see any ugliness in it at all..

that pic is of the std 4 door..

it should be around 1000-1100 kg (standard ones are <1,000kg) , and having 140+kW in that would be a rocket.

blueraven

16th July 2007, 01:34 PM

stop after every 10 steps...

Counting that high's really hard too.....

easier if you go barefoot :D

OPC

16th July 2007, 01:36 PM

I know nothin'...

I'm still trying to figure out how to walk and breathe at the same time...Takes forever to get anywhere when you gotta hold your breath and stop after every 10 steps...

.....

hahaha lose some weight ya fat bastard

gman

16th July 2007, 01:37 PM

Now, why would Holden/HSV bring over the Corsa VXR? How exactly would that increase the sales numbers for the Korea sourced Barina?!

HSV were looking onto the Corsa VXR as a way to appeal to a broader, and significantly younger demographic than those that usually constitute their base customer.

Secondly by selling smaller and less expensive cars, HSV is looking at ways of capturing and instilling "Brand Loyalty" into younger car buyers.

Thirdly HSV is constantly looking at ways of adding to the car range. Smaller cars are in HSV's sights as such cars appeal to the ever widening demographic of car enthusiasts who are also swaying to the “green side”. These people want performance in a car that isn’t a V8 of 6.0lt to 7.0lt capacity. They are effectively “jumping on the green bandwagon”, albeit to a much lesser and modified extent then say Toyota with the Prius. However, HSV must retain its pedigree as a specialist performance tuner.

Cars such as the Astra VXR and the Corsa VXR also appeal to those who are currently finding rising petrol prices are pushing them out of the traditional HSV V8 market. Less fuel consumption means a broader appeal.

So you see the role of a model such as an Astra or Corsa VXR is not solely to “increase the sales numbers for the Korea(en) sourced Barina”, but to establish brand loyalty on younger customers, allow parents et al to continue supporting the brand by purchasing a Corsa VXR for “little Jonny” when he come of age and widening the customer base demographic for the HSV franchise as a whole. After all, HSV is a business and franchise first and foremost about making money out of anyone they can.

As a side, why would HSV, who is owned by Holden and therefore by default GM, not want to use any and all means possible to increase sales of the GM owned, Korean built Corsa model. As long as it does not detract from the HSV prestige and the costs are covered, I’d say the HSV boys would be chomping at the bit to get it down here….

Wraith

16th July 2007, 01:39 PM

i like it the design..

can't see any ugliness in it at all..

that pic is of the std 4 door..

I agree John, seems only you and I think so....

Speaking for myself though, I wouldn't want one, this class (including Corsa VXR and new Civic Type R) is getting a little too small for my liking, I'd much rather an MPS 3, already a great performer and just add a Xede, or one of the upcoming re-flashes which will be soon available and you'll have a power to weight ratio of low 6'skg/kw or better, plus all that additional torque produced from the 2.3ltr......way plenty :)

gman

16th July 2007, 01:45 PM

hahaha lose some weight ya fat bastard

It no easy when your a fat child.....

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/aussiegman/fatbastard.jpg

Remember the "Zone", carb's are the enemy....

rjastra

16th July 2007, 02:00 PM

gman

16th July 2007, 02:06 PM

Ah...The power of economies of scale......

Bugger...Reckon the Corsa VXR would have gone well over here too....

gman

16th July 2007, 02:07 PM

easier if you go barefoot :D

I always do cause I can't tie up shoe laces yet and the dog always eats my thongs..And I just don't trust that new fangled velcro stuff either....

OPC

16th July 2007, 02:08 PM

It no easy when your a fat child.....

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/aussiegman/fatbastard.jpg

Remember the "Zone", carb's are the enemy....

bahahaha... i watched it the other night... so funny

JasonGilholme

16th July 2007, 02:08 PM

only 160kw from a 2 litre turbo?? God what is goin on these days. :(

Thats NA 2 litre teritory if you ask me.

I still wouldn't buy anything on todays market. It'll never be like the old days.

OPC

16th July 2007, 02:08 PM

Ah...The power of economies of scale......

Bugger...Reckon the Corsa VXR would have gone well over here too....

yeah i woulda bought one for sure...

Apex

16th July 2007, 06:04 PM

only 160kw from a 2 litre turbo?? God what is goin on these days. :(

Thats NA 2 litre teritory if you ask me.

I still wouldn't buy anything on todays market. It'll never be like the old days.

Yea but an N/A car making that kinda power is making it way up the rev range and produces very little torque (Toyota Altezza and the Honda S2000) give me a modern Turbo engine anyway for drivability!

Wraith

16th July 2007, 07:50 PM

Agree with the above, would much rather a turbo producing 160kw 2.0ltr engine than the equivalent atmo 2.0ltr as the atmo will have very low torque by comparison.

As for the claimed 160kw for the 'proposed' MPS 2, yes it may be a low figure for todays standards, but I think it's been purposely set that way as the vehicle it's in weighs only 1000-1100kg......plenty power/performance for the combination at hand ;)

gman

16th July 2007, 08:41 PM

Agree with the above, would much rather a turbo producing 160kw 2.0ltr engine than the equivalent atmo 2.0ltr as the atmo will have very low torque by comparison.

Agreed...Turbo's are just torque multipliers, thats why they are so good....

Much rather a turbo 2.0Lt that uses boost rather than a NA 2.0Lt that uses rev's to make power....

JasonGilholme

17th July 2007, 08:39 AM

Agreed...Turbo's are just torque multipliers, thats why they are so good....

Much rather a turbo 2.0Lt that uses boost rather than a NA 2.0Lt that uses rev's to make power....

...why not both lol ;)

Wraith

17th July 2007, 08:50 AM

...why not both lol ;)

Yes, why not indeed :)

Enter the new Evo 10, direct injection, variable cam timing on both sides and turbo forced induction, all together - yes please :)

JasonGilholme

17th July 2007, 09:43 AM

Perfect example of how to do a good high revving turbo setup.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70774

Integra Type R-T. Lots of work done to this one!

JohnBu

17th July 2007, 10:10 AM

Perfect example of how to do a good high revving turbo setup.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70774

Integra Type R-T. Lots of work done to this one!

yup, very good engineering, but i wouldn't do that to my car because of insurance and cost.

and as you said alot of work.

nothing wrong with N/A, if you have 3,000+cc to play with, under that Turbo or S/C please.

having said that, the Honda Type Rs are the pinnacle of 2.0L N/A engines.. yet they suffer from lack of torque for an daily driver.. even worst as cars get heavier and heavier..

i'm not a fan of the Civic Type R we're getting in Aust, but the Japanese 4 door one really does look good.

Wraith, yeah, you prob know i'm a big fan of smallish cars... driving in the city everyday, i prefer something more nimble for zipping in and out of traffic and parking... should see the small laneway i drive through everyday... approx 20% of cars have had their side mirrors scrapped, or worst, like a bmw 330ci broken off.

Shaun

17th July 2007, 11:50 AM

The corsa VXR is a no-go. The Astra VXR only happens because Holden can store/supply a majority of the spare parts required by HSV as it already sells the Astra in this market.

Holden on the other hand doesn't hold any spares for the Corsa model. It would leave HSV needing to store/supply ALL the spare parts for the Corsa VXR.

HSV Are not shy about expressing there Interest in the Corsa VXR. They have already Publically annonced that they " Evaluating " the idea. As ive said before. Dont be Suprised if there is one on the Sydney Motorshow Stand.

OPC

17th July 2007, 11:53 AM

yaaaaaaaaaaay... im gunna get the plates BBY HSV

EL BURITO

17th July 2007, 11:56 AM

yaaaaaaaaaaay... im gunna get the plates BBY HSV
that dosnt work with your badges

OPC

17th July 2007, 12:00 PM

that dosnt work with your badges

NAH i meant for the CORSA

ive got OPC for my plates

JasonGilholme

17th July 2007, 01:03 PM

nothing wrong with N/A, if you have 3,000+cc to play with, under that Turbo or S/C please.

having said that, the Honda Type Rs are the pinnacle of 2.0L N/A engines.. yet they suffer from lack of torque for an daily driver.. even worst as cars get heavier and heavier..

i'm not a fan of the Civic Type R we're getting in Aust, but the Japanese 4 door one really does look good.

Weight plays a big part in builds like mine (1.6 NA) and any other low capacity engined car. (ie alot of hot hatches)

Mine weighs in at 960kg's and will stay door to door with, and beat, lots of things with bigger engines (sss pulsars, 180sx's, commodores (5ltrs), falcons etc)

Weight definately plays a big part in it. Its good to see that this new car is around the 1100 kg mark and if it does have 160kw it should be a good toy to play with.

gman

17th July 2007, 02:09 PM

Power to weight is the way to go..Look at the Lotus Exige.....now they ROCK!!!!

Dee

17th July 2007, 02:15 PM

Power to weight is the way to go..Look at the Lotus Exige.....now they ROCK!!!!

mmmm 2ZZ engines rock!!!!

gman

17th July 2007, 02:20 PM

they doo...they howl....and the supercharged one in the exige sounds AWESOME...drove one a month or so ago...Damn they are quick and point like a go kart......

but they are just soooooooooooo good to drive...But a bitch to get in and out of when your 6ft or taller....

OPC

17th July 2007, 03:19 PM

but they are just soooooooooooo good to drive...But a bitch to get in and out of when your 6ft or taller....

sit in the backseat like hightower did... im next ratface :)

Apex

17th July 2007, 04:24 PM

Id rather a Europa with a VXR upgrade:)

gman

17th July 2007, 05:06 PM

sit in the backseat like hightower did... im next ratface :)

If that fails then I can be a florist liek hightower did too ;)

Id rather a Europa with a VXR upgrade:)

Now you talking...Thorney in the UK are doing these sort of things ATM....

blueraven

17th July 2007, 05:57 PM

vx220 > exige :D

vx220 with my engine mods = 0-100 <4 seconds (stock with 200hp is 4.6 so with 300+hp...:D:D:D)

seriously how hard is it to import a car? :(

Dee

17th July 2007, 06:06 PM

EL BURITO

18th July 2007, 12:56 PM

vx220 > exige :D

vx220 with my engine mods = 0-100 <4 seconds (stock with 200hp is 4.6 so with 300+hp...:D:D:D)

seriously how hard is it to import a car? :(
considering the amount of Jap stuff imported.

oneightoo

18th July 2007, 02:50 PM

ask lampshade how hard it is..

blueraven

18th July 2007, 02:54 PM

yeh i have, he doesnt seem to be around much :)

OPC

18th July 2007, 03:27 PM

yeh i have, he doesnt seem to be around much :)

neither would i if i had stage 3... hehehehe

oneightoo

18th July 2007, 03:34 PM

id import one if it were as easy as from japan..

EL BURITO

18th July 2007, 03:34 PM

neither would i if i had stage 3... hehehehe
but it is his misses car isnt it

OPC

18th July 2007, 04:10 PM

but it is his misses car isnt it

well yeah... maybe he's out gettin a TAN... in melbourne i doubt it

maybe a sand storm has carried him away

EL BURITO

18th July 2007, 04:10 PM

well yeah... maybe he's out gettin a TAN... in melbourne i doubt it

maybe a sand storm has carried him away
or working a 2nd job to pay her unplanned expensies

OPC

18th July 2007, 04:16 PM

or working a 2nd job to pay her speeding fines

argh... dont swear...

EL BURITO

18th July 2007, 04:18 PM

argh... dont swear...
fixed ...........

OPC

18th July 2007, 04:28 PM

hehehehehe

Wraith

18th July 2007, 09:46 PM

EL BURITO

18th July 2007, 10:27 PM

If you guys were in Melb.

well not all of us are as cool as to live in Vic are we

Shaun

19th July 2007, 12:44 AM

If you guys were in Melb. you'd be seeing plenty of him and his/his missus car, I'm sure ;)

Lots of us here already have.....would've come in handy for you VXR guys looking to buy that mega dollar miltek system :)

Not to matter. They will be coming to Sydney at some point in the near future. As for seeing a Milltek. Some of us have already been to the UK well over a year ago and have exp a milltek 1st hand and can give a try comment about the sound and profomance.

Some of us can only comment from hearing it driving off at and make comments that are quite about the system with out doing any research what so ever.

And some are lucky enough to have one already....
(Not a digg at John or Kiri either here)

Shaun

19th July 2007, 12:47 AM

well not all of us are as cool as to live in Vic are we

did you mean cool or fools ?hehe

Wraith

19th July 2007, 08:46 AM

well not all of us are as cool as to live in Vic are we

No need to be cool, it's cool enough here already lol, you'll need to be hot to put up with the chill ATM :)

Wraith

19th July 2007, 08:51 AM

Not to matter. They will be coming to Sydney at some point in the near future. As for seeing a Milltek. Some of us have already been to the UK well over a year ago and have exp a milltek 1st hand and can give a try comment about the sound and profomance.

Some of us can only comment from hearing it driving off at and make comments that are quite about the system with out doing any research what so ever.

And some are lucky enough to have one already....
(Not a digg at John or Kiri either here)

I'm well aware of your trip O/S last year, I believe you also found out that in Italy they use Mercs as taxis LOL......I could've told you that 20 years ago ;)

Point I was making is that for anyone in Melb. thinking of purchasing the miltek, Lampshades car is a must to check out, certainly get more info/feedback than just listening to it drive off ;)

OPC

19th July 2007, 10:37 AM

If you guys were in Melb. you'd be seeing plenty of him and his/his missus car, I'm sure ;)

Lots of us here already have.....would've come in handy for you VXR guys looking to buy that mega dollar miltek system :)

exactly how would it have been handy ?

so we can hear it ?

so he can tell us how good it is ?

we can already hear it on you tube...

we already know how good it is...

plus ive seen the video footage that shaun took while he was in england...

i think u may have a st st stutter (his/his missus car)

gman

19th July 2007, 11:10 AM

You guys ain't heard nothing till you heard my car...

I definately think it would win the award for the loudest..I think it sounds pretty good too... ;)

Ask Jass..

OPC

19th July 2007, 12:24 PM

i like loud...

it's actually the sound... like one of a kind sound..

ya know how rexy's have that distinct note... the miltek has its own distinct note with a pop here and there

Wraith

19th July 2007, 12:35 PM

exactly how would it have been handy ?

so we can hear it ?

so he can tell us how good it is ?

we can already hear it on you tube...

we already know how good it is...

plus ive seen the video footage that shaun took while he was in england...

i think u may have a st st stutter (his/his missus car)

Exactly right, just to gain as much 1st hand info on it as possible and even go for a spin in the car.

I realise Shauns heard it and checked it out 'in the metal' but for others who havn't that would be neat, hearing it in person is better than any sound vid recordings....

Let me correct my stutter - his or his missus' car :)

There was a question as to who actually owns it earlier on, I think it's his wifes :)

OPC

19th July 2007, 01:29 PM

There was a question as to who actually owns it earlier on, I think it's his wifes :)

yeah was cleared up already.. but thanks anyway

gman

19th July 2007, 01:45 PM

i like loud...

it's actually the sound... like one of a kind sound..

ya know how rexy's have that distinct note... the miltek has its own distinct note with a pop here and there

mine pops on overrun when I back off...Has a very distinct sound...Mates say its like a VTEC Honda..deep sort of rasping noise...howls at full throttle..It the muffler I got from the states...Lurv the sound..

My old STi had a set of mega dollar equal length Zerosports extractors on it..changed the sound totally...more like a big V8 till on boost then screamed all the way to 9500rpm!!!! God I miss my STi!!!! :(

Shaun

19th July 2007, 02:22 PM

Its Kiri's car.... As kiri told me once before on MSN John is allowed to ride in it every now and then... HEHE\

OPC

19th July 2007, 04:17 PM

Its Kiri's car.... As kiri told me once before on MSN John is allowed to ride in it every now and then... HEHE\

yeah we know

lampshade

19th July 2007, 05:09 PM

Yeah it's 100% Kiri's car (I only paid for it:whistle: ) and whilst it may be a tad bit quicker than my Falcon, she cant beat me when it comes to the price of LPG V Petrol ;)

The Milltek has proven how good it actually is and the sound is fantastic,but I would hate to be in the back of a car with a Milltek pureley down to the noise it makes inside the cabin,
best way to describe it is to try and imagine a jet engine, sucking type of noise.

The kids dont like the car to be honest and avoid going out in it (or is it because it's a Vauxhall lol)

Jass

19th July 2007, 06:24 PM

Very FUGLY!

looks like the under developed retard brother of the Mazda MPS3

OPC

19th July 2007, 06:28 PM

Very FUGLY!

looks like the under developed retard brother of the Mazda MPS3

hahahahaha nice of you to give us your thought's jose

aussie_in_london

19th July 2007, 06:29 PM

milltek at its best : )

sound required
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/?action=view&current=Milltekwithsilencer.flv

OPC

19th July 2007, 06:33 PM

i like this one... sounds deeper
pity he doesn't know how to rev out 1st gear
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/?action=view&current=Milltekminussilencer.flv

aussie_in_london

19th July 2007, 06:38 PM

that one has had the centre silencer removed,
a guy yesterday had stage 3 and full milltek fitted without the silencer, he is now booked back in to have the silencer fitted as he has found it to loud for his liking, im going to remove mine

without silencer
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/th_Milltekminussilencer4.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/?action=view&current=Milltekminussilencer4.flv)

and with
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/th_Milltekwithsilencer2.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/aussie32/?action=view&current=Milltekwithsilencer2.flv)

sorry well off topic, ban Jay!