Motor Mag - VXR / Golf Gti

[dustbug]

Well, went out driving tonight and my mate needed to go to the loo so we dropped by the local BP. while he was doing his business i was reading the latest motor mag. Well they were comparing the VXR with like a 350Z, Clubby R8, RS4, Porsche, Lambo etc and it came 7/9. not too bad actually and they gave it a pretty good run.

Well the thing is the 0-100 spec on it was 7.1 seconds.

Next article was comparing the Golf GT and GTi. Well the 0-100 on the GT was i think around the 7.2 seconds while the GTi was 6.5 seconds.

Does this sound like it makes no sense what so ever?

VXR - 177kw

GTi - 147kw...............

[blueraven]

the golf's DSG gearbox really is a thing of beauty, much better than a manual :)

and maybe its a little lighter than the vxr? maybe the drivers had different conditions? who cares about figures anyway.

[aussie_in_london]

the figures vary from driver to driver or magazine to magazine

in the UK we have seen the mags test the perfomance of the VXR and they have ranged from 6.1 through to 6.8 secs

[Shaun]

Remember Motor Magazine has been known to Qoute one figure in one part of an article then the next they are qouting another..
Go figure.. I think they may do there test with two people in the car. Full tank of fuel then avarage out over say ten runs.

[Vectracious]

Knowing motor, they've probably farked up with a typeo (which they tend to do quite often)

Wheels times (From the back - Feb 07 edition - all I could find in the study)

VXR - 6.4
VW GTi DSG - 8.0
VW GTi Manual - 8.1

Maybe they put the VXR time in the Golf stats and vice versa....

[Shaun]

Knowing motor, they've probably farked up with a typeo (which they tend to do quite often)

Wheels times (From the back - Feb 07 edition - all I could find in the study)

VXR - 6.4
VW GTi DSG - 8.0
VW GTi Manual - 8.1

Maybe they put the VXR time in the Golf stats and vice versa....

After Bing in SSS Hoons Misses GTI it comes down to how you launch with DSG. If you mess up the launch they die off the Mark. its still has to be launched correctly otherwise they tend to die off the mark

[Vectracious]

After Bing in SSS Hoons Misses GTI it comes down to how you launch with DSG. If you mess up the launch they die off the Mark. its still has to be launched correctly otherwise they tend to die off the mark

so what time did SSS Hoons Misses GTi do while being launched correctly?

[Shaun]

so what time did SSS Hoons Misses GTi do while being launched correctly?

Not sure. i have only been in it a couple of times but insaying that they are A quick car off the mark when launched correctly . They are quick on the gear change too. There is a clip somwhere on line with a Drift driver driving a manual GTI against a DSG GTI and he couldnt beat it. and the drift driver was going though the gears like you wouldnt believe

[Vectracious]

Not sure. i have only been in it a couple of times but insaying that they are A quick car off the mark when launched correctly . They are quick on the gear change too. There is a clip somwhere on line with a Drift driver driving a manual GTI against a DSG GTI and he couldnt beat it. and the drift driver was going though the gears like you wouldnt believe

So it felt quick, but it is entirely possible that it did the 0-100 in around 8 seconds.

Feeling quick and an actual time is different. And I'm sure Wheels didnt stuff up the launch. They had one as a long term test car and Peter Robinson creamed his daks over it, I doubt Wheels would paint it in a bad light...

[aussie_in_london]

So it felt quick, but it is entirely possible that it did the 0-100 in around 8 seconds.


i would say thats a mistake

[Shaun]

Again Pete. It depends on if you mess up the launch. they can bog down off the mark if you mess up the lauch. Thats something that can happen with CAG. One of two things. its either a miss print or the couldnt launch properly.

[Vectracious]

CAG???? Sorry, my powercrazed brain doesn't know what that is.....

Regardless, times all over the internet point to the GTi doing 0-100 in about 7 seconds - yes wheels time is slow but who cares - I was just using it to make a suggestion that Motor mixed the VXR and Golf GTi times around.

[Shaun]

CAG = Computer Aided Gearbox. . CAG is nothing new. Been around for years in trucks.

[GreyRex]

I wish you people would read!! The article states that the performance tests were done at a very high altitude in NSW and that the VXR (being one of the slowest of the bunch), would be most likely to suffer because of it. Just don't take all the performance stats as gospel... there are too many variables

[Wraith]

the golf's DSG gearbox really is a thing of beauty, much better than a manual :)

Very true, can you just imagine how awesome a Jap model of this type of gearbox will be....

New Evo will feature it and I reckon Subaru will do one as well, will be quite a breathtaking drive in the new model Evos or Sti when they come out with a DSG :)

[JohnBu]

comparative performance times pretty much useless unless they are ran on the same day, temp, track/road and driver.

well done VXR.. i should read the article.

[SSS_Hoon]

Well the thing is the 0-100 spec on it was 7.1 seconds.

Next article was comparing the Golf GT and GTi. Well the 0-100 on the GT was i think around the 7.2 seconds while the GTi was 6.5 seconds.

Does this sound like it makes no sense what so ever?

VXR - 177kw

GTi - 147kw...............


this being bcoz HSV over stat the figures and VW don't :D hehehehe

VW claim 6.9 0-100 for the DSG GTI.

the norm is anywhere from 6.5 7.5 from what i had found.Have even 6sec flat but this was online posted video so is negligable.

I got ours when i had borrowed a gtech pro rr the best i did(this is only after owning the car for about 3 weeks) was 6.89 the DSG is great.

Although i think stock for stock a perfect launch in the VXR v's the GTI the GTI will out launch the VXR but the VXR will get to the 100 faster in a perfectly controlled launch and gear changes blah blah blah. Also the VXR will get to the 1/4mile faster too but not by that much about 0.2-0.4of a sec i would say.


But a flashed GTI with DSG and a Stock VXR(still haveing more power) the GTI will eat the VXR all day everyday.Then if both were same mods eg bluefin i think it would be the same as if they were stock.

They are both relativly new engines and the such, after they are a bit older and there is more R&D in aftermarket parts that is when it will get interesting.

I will be able to find out exactly how motor test the cars soon as one of the drivers that does it is the new driver for my dads race team, so when i see him i will ask him.


All mags quote different figures same as the manufactures all claim different figures some tend to exagerate and others not so much.



SSS_Hoon

[SSS_Hoon]

Very true, can you just imagine how awesome a Jap model of this type of gearbox will be....

New Evo will feature it and I reckon Subaru will do one as well, will be quite a breathtaking drive in the new model Evos or Sti when they come out with a DSG :)


VW have already franchised it out to Ford.


VW lead the way with this type even though it has been around for many many years VW took it to the next level.

Hell if it can handle the Buggati i dont see y it wont be in STI's n EVO's real soon.

I know the new EVO has a version of it but its not the same as the VW versiona s they own the patent on it, from what i read the EVO one is similar to the M3 BMW version.

Like i posted ages ok the DSG(or similar) will be the performance gearbox of years to come.

SSS_Hoon

[digifish]

the golf's DSG gearbox really is a thing of beauty, much better than a manual :)

Having driven the DSG extensively in pre-purchase decision making (in GTi and TDI form), I have to disagree. I found it to be one of the most uninvolving experiences, second only to a regular auto. Nice for a commute tho...but then again any auto gearbox is.

Yes it changes quickly, yes its quicker than a manual, yes it's less effort and yes it comes with flappy paddles so you can convince youself you are in a F1...but it just didn't excite me :confused: . I think the motoring press got excited as it was one of the first 'flappy paddle for the masses' gearboxes. And a great one at that. However, this does not make it an involving piece of technology AFAIK. :boohoo:

digifish

[Wraith]

VW have already franchised it out to Ford.


VW lead the way with this type even though it has been around for many many years VW took it to the next level.

Hell if it can handle the Buggati i dont see y it wont be in STI's n EVO's real soon.

I know the new EVO has a version of it but its not the same as the VW versiona s they own the patent on it, from what i read the EVO one is similar to the M3 BMW version.

Like i posted ages ok the DSG(or similar) will be the performance gearbox of years to come.

SSS_Hoon

Yeh, the 'automatic manual' in the Evo 10 will be a 'double shifter' like the DSG in the Vdubs and not like the SMG (sequential manual gearbox) of the BMW M3, it'll be of Mitsubishi's own design.

Literature I've read all suggests it'll be even better than VW's DSG :)

I don't doubt it either, the Japanese sure know what their doing when it comes to mechanical technology...

Only time will tell, we have to hang out n wait til next year to see for sure ;)

And yes I too totally agree and also posted ages ago - DSG/SMG type gearboxes will be the performance gearboxes of choice in years to come ;)

Far better than basic stick shift or auto as it offers the best of 'all' worlds :)

[oneightoo]

what do people think about competitve racing swicthing to these types of gearbox? or should the skill behind a good gear change remain with the driver?

[Wraith]

I suppose it depends what level of racing it is....

eg: the latest and most powerful dragsters rely on computer gear change assistance because they have evolved to a level out of human capability, I think it would be the same for F1 :rolleyes:

If you look at most of the fastest/quickest drag cars - even street class - they're all autos, even my old 9sec Torana was equipped with a 2 spd powerglide, manuals just waste too much time between changes and make it much easier under race conditions to stuff up or select an incorrect gear, even if your flat shifting.

Good ol stick shift I think has had it's run, once someone does better, you need to follow or progress to keep up in competitive sports....

[SSS_Hoon]

Having driven the DSG extensively in pre-purchase decision making (in GTi and TDI form), I have to disagree. I found it to be one of the most uninvolving experiences, second only to a regular auto. Nice for a commute tho...but then again any auto gearbox is.

Yes it changes quickly, yes its quicker than a manual, yes it's less effort and yes it comes with flappy paddles so you can convince youself you are in a F1...but it just didn't excite me :confused: . I think the motoring press got excited as it was one of the first 'flappy paddle for the masses' gearboxes. And a great one at that. However, this does not make it an involving piece of technology AFAIK. :boohoo:

digifish



Mate you really and i mean REALLY get the Diesel pump away from your mouth and stop drinking it or smoking it or what ever you are doing with it and wake up to yourself.

Where was the talk of it being a involving technology, and i cannot believe that after driving the Golf in GTI and TDI that u went for the CDTi unbeilievable but i guess good for a laugh none the less.

I agree in D mode is a tad boring even in S mode, but the manual mode is great, yeah you don't have the actual feeling of a manual as in the clutch pedal and the slow gear changes but if that floats your boat then go for it.

But being able to drive hard through the twisties with both hands on the wheel and still be able 2 change gears all without slowing down is awesome.


now enough of topic crap lets get back onto it shall we.

that 6.89 i got was only once, the avg was around the 7.3 7.4 mark.


SSS_Hoon

[digifish]

Mate you really and i mean REALLY get the Diesel pump away from your mouth and stop drinking it or smoking it or what ever you are doing with it and wake up to yourself.

Where was the talk of it being a involving technology, and i cannot believe that after driving the Golf in GTI and TDI that u went for the CDTi unbeilievable but i guess good for a laugh none the less.

It's an opinion, you need to get over yourself.

I am not racing my cars, just driving around town. You will note that I don't have a green box on my CDTi either.

My other car is a 4 motion v6 Passat (well, wifes car), so I have had my fill of 'high tech' VWs. The 6 speed CDTi was in my, and wifes, opinion better car to drive than the DSG 2.0 TDI.

Live with it.

digifish

[RudeOne]

I have a vxr, but i LOVE the GTI with a DSG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the only thing was i noticed it loves to change to 6th very quickly and at low speeds.... must be some sort of sports button you can press to stop that im sure!!!

[Wraith]

Yes, you just put it in manual shift mode and you tell it when you want to go into 6th :)

[aussie_in_london]

just to add my bit to the matter at hand : )

Silverstone 05, perfect day for the UK : ) 0-100 (for you guys) timed event.
standard Astra VXR.

perfect take off 5% wheel spin blah blah blah
i will let the pics do the talking : )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/aussie31/ed5e0739.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/aussie31/TRAX04-09-200515-52-092816x2112.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/aussie31/TRAX04-09-200515-52-272816x2112_edi.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/aussie31/TRAX04-09-200515-52-322816x2112.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/aussie31/TRAX04-09-200515-52-362816x2112.jpg

[SSS_Hoon]

I have a vxr, but i LOVE the GTI with a DSG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the only thing was i noticed it loves to change to 6th very quickly and at low speeds.... must be some sort of sports button you can press to stop that im sure!!!


that is wierd as ours when in D mode it wont shift into 6th until about 55-60kph, but sports mode will keep it in 3rd while cruisin at 80-90kph hehehehe.

The reason it does that as in 6th gear is its designed to save petrol.


The thing i dont like is that you cannot tell it what gear it has to go in order as in 1-2-3-4-5-6 then 6-5-4-3-2-1 it will go 2 gears at a time though as in 1-3 2-4 3-5 4-6 and the same down but you have to press it at the exact time. i mean you cannot be driving it hard 1-2-3 get to 100kph speed limit then go straight to 6th it has to go through the gears grrrr.



Aussie see that is hard eveidence and proof right there 6.28 0-62mph i assume there is no arguing with that one bit and its no where near what the mags claim but is close to what the manufacture claim aint it?


SSS_Hoon

[gman]

Just as a side line...The DSG Golf GTi has a launch system!!!! Theres no stuffing up the launch if you use that......

Turn off ESP....foot on brake select 1st...Hold brake a floor throttle....Release brake and after half a second its off!!! Super quick!!!!

[blueraven]

niiiiice :)

a mate of mines dad showed us the launch control in the M3 which works in a similar way :D freaking quick!

[aussie_in_london]

Aussie see that is hard eveidence and proof right there 6.28 0-62mph i assume there is no arguing with that one bit and its no where near what the mags claim but is close to what the manufacture claim aint it?
SSS_Hoon

.8 of a second out from manufacturer claims but pretty close.
Autocar managed mid last year a best of 6.18 over a series of runs and had previously ran a 6.3 during its first roadtest, Evo mag couldnt better 6.6sec

[dustbug]

niiiiice :)

a mate of mines dad showed us the launch control in the M3 which works in a similar way :D freaking quick!

My boss had a M3 with that launch mode, he didn't want to use it cause he heard if you use it like 3 times you gotta take it back into BMW and get the car retuned or some crap.

You know is thats true or not???

well the boss sold the M3 cause the gearbox broke after 50,000km which cost him $12K, but after making a complaint to BMW they halved the cost of the gearbox so it cost him $7K still!!!! now he has a 130i and that a nice car. another car doing the 0-100 sprint in 6.2 seconds. ive driven the new R32 golf in manual and it feel a lot slower than the 130i. the 130i feels like it pulls so much more

[blueraven]

the 130i has the same engine as last years m3 i thought....190kw?

i dunno about retuning, but my mates dad did say something about the computerlogging how many times you use the launch control, and that if its used more than 10 times the warranty is void or something :(

[jsantos]

which cost him $12K, but after making a complaint to BMW they halved the cost of the gearbox so it cost him $7K still!!!!

12 / 2 != 7..... :P the warranty implications should be spelled out in a book somewhere as it's a legal contract? I have one that states, among other things i can't use the vehicle for "competitive" track use. It would be interesting to hear the truth about that launch control thing though seems a bit off to me an official BMW option that can effect the warranty :S as for the 7.1 for the VXR, just my two cents, i don't believe it.

[JohnBu]

the 130i has the same engine as last years m3 i thought....190kw?



yup 130i has 190kW

M3 has 252kW (3.4l)

oh, BMW is replacing the 3.0L engines with the 3.0L turbo..

so hopefully (and most likely) the 1 series will get the 3.0l twin turbo - the 135i .. that would be an awesome 225kw rwd hot hatch

i'm still loosely thinking about the e46 M3, but can't seem to find a decent low km manual (at an affordable price)... for every 10 SMGs, theres 1 manual.. lazy drivers.

[Wraith]

E46 M3 has 252kw - 3.2ltr IL 6.

And yes, you definitely wont have any luck finding a reasonably priced S/H one of any type, these things really do hold their value, even with high km's and run down looking bodies.....

[btm]

E46 M3 has 252kw - 3.2ltr IL 6.
another one that's on my 'wish-list'

[rjastra]

the 130i has the same engine as last years m3 i thought....190kw?

i dunno about retuning, but my mates dad did say something about the computerlogging how many times you use the launch control, and that if its used more than 10 times the warranty is void or something :(

Same engine found in the current 3/5/z4/X5 etc etc. 3L I6

How can using a feature supplied by BMW in the correct manner void the warranty?

[gman]

Same engine found in the current 3/5/z4/X5 etc etc. 3L I6

How can using a feature supplied by BMW in the correct manner void the warranty?

BMW can say that the car was abused and they have a one line in the warranty that says their products are for certain uses and it does not cover abuse...

Legal loophole....

[rjastra]

BMW can say that the car was abused and they have a one line in the warranty that says their products are for certain uses and it does not cover abuse...

Legal loophole....

So.. you use their COMPUTER controlled launch system supplied with the vehicle with no lock-outs. Meaning BMW software is controlling the throttle,clutch and gearbox and it fails. I think you will find that if it breaks, during the warranty period, that BMW will cover it. Of course, if you can provide the exlusion from the actually warranty clause then all good :)