Vectra C on Topgear :(

[Blitz_Silvia]

Hey guys i was looking at some vectra stuff on youtube and came across a clip from top gear where the host guy jeremy drives one and reckons its one of the worst cars he has ever driven, he made it very clear that he goes out of his way to stay away from them??????????
basically the only point he made was that they have a terrible understeer or some crap like that?

all i can say is WHY does he hate them so much?
he didnt say anything else about the quality or other aspects of performane?

Here is the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k5pyUMFI_4

[oneightoo]

he hates them because it's a vauxhall, and jeremy doesnt like vauxhalls..

[bornwild]

Jeremy is a knob.....a funny one at it :D

[Wraith]

Put a Ferrari badge on it and he'll take it home and sexually abuse every orifice on it and tell you it's the best sex he's ever had :D

Not trying to degrade Ferraris, they are amongst my fav. too, but you get the picture...

[Tfer]

Put a Ferrari badge on it and he'll take it home and sexually abuse every orifice on it and tell you it's the best sex he's ever had :D

Not trying to degrade Ferraris, they are amongst my fav. too, but you get the picture...

Muwahahahahahahaha :D

[OZChris]

Jeremy is a knob.....a funny one at it :D

+1 Very true :p

[Rhino]

he hates them because it's a vauxhall, and jeremy doesnt like vauxhalls..
I don't think it's a blanket hate. If Vauxhall put out a decent car, I'm sure it would get the respect it deserved. Although it is Australian / American, he loved the Monaro...


Put a Ferrari badge on it and he'll take it home and sexually abuse every orifice on it and tell you it's the best sex he's ever had :D

Umm, he thinks Ferraris are common as muck. IIRC the only one that he wouldn't shut up about was the 612 Scaglietti (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=ferrari+612&meta=) that he drove in one of his challenges. And even then he wasn't really sold on the look of it.


\/\/\/ added while below post was posted \/\/\/
As for the Vectra... I don't see where you disappointment lies. Top gear is about finding a good 'package' and he had pretty much the same opinion of the SRiT... AWESOME POWER... won't turn. And he is absolutely correct. Who cares if it goes fast in a straight line if there are competitive cars that are better all round?

It's not just about being expensive as he proved with the Monaro test. He was flabbergasted at the price, power and handling for the 'lazy fat Australian'...

Not many people like Clarkson. I tend to think he's *pretty* spot on with most cars he drives.

[oneightoo]

I don't think it's a blanket hate. If Vauxhall put out a decent car, I'm sure it would get the respect it deserved. Although it is Australian / American, he loved the Monaro...

he said in one of his reports that he didnt like it beucause it was a vauxhall (not the monaro, but other vaux's).. on the monaro report he couldnt believe it was a vauxhall and i think he mentioned it was an aussie car just so he didnt look like he was eating his words..

[Rhino]

So... show me an impressive Vauxhall...

Maybe it IS a blanket hate then... maybe... I can't believe I'm gonna say this (may the gods strike me down)... Vaxhaulls aren't that good! Brand loyalty and narrow mindedness aside... what do they have that is impressive?

Sure, for a hairdresser the boot is more than ample, or for a pensioner there's plenty of space for you zimmer frame... and the doors are solid... but... it's just a nice affordable small/medium sized car.

Get into the 'performance' range... and well... like he said, they surprise you with a bit of power... but don't turn.

*shrugs*

I can't knock his review.

[oneightoo]

i'd say it is.. just like he has a blanket hate for all cars that are french..

vauxhalls just dont sit in his "i like" category..

for the price you pay for a vectra opc, you get a very quick car.. i think it's a good car if you want power on a budget..

[digifish]

Top gear is about finding a good 'package' and he had pretty much the same opinion of the SRiT

Here's the show...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMKpdh2fRA

..and I'll bite.

It was the VXR not the SRiT...

1. He was deliberately causing understeer. If you try to put 170 kw through any FWD car in a hard turn, of course it will understeer. The Megane did the same thing too BTW but he made a joke out of it, saying it 'smokes. BTW: RWD cars oversteer in the same situation, but Jeremy seems to think that's all good fun. Well it's not. In the real world on unpredictable roads, oversteer quickly turns into wrapping yourself around the scenery or at least smacking your wheel alignment out on the curb.


won't turn. And he is absolutely correct.

2. The VXR holds the class record at Nordschleife...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwBJ8SHB42U

...and keeps winning other events, it does go around corners, please show any review (apart from Jeremy Clarkson) that claims it doesn't. The only complaints I have seen are about torque steer, not cornering ability.

digifish

[Wraith]

I don't think it's a blanket hate. If Vauxhall put out a decent car, I'm sure it would get the respect it deserved. Although it is Australian / American, he loved the Monaro...


Umm, he thinks Ferraris are common as muck. IIRC the only one that he wouldn't shut up about was the 612 Scaglietti (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=ferrari+612&meta=) that he drove in one of his challenges. And even then he wasn't really sold on the look of it.


\/\/\/ added while below post was posted \/\/\/
As for the Vectra... I don't see where you disappointment lies. Top gear is about finding a good 'package' and he had pretty much the same opinion of the SRiT... AWESOME POWER... won't turn. And he is absolutely correct. Who cares if it goes fast in a straight line if there are competitive cars that are better all round?

It's not just about being expensive as he proved with the Monaro test. He was flabbergasted at the price, power and handling for the 'lazy fat Australian'...

Not many people like Clarkson. I tend to think he's *pretty* spot on with most cars he drives.

Not just the 612....

He also would not stop and shut up about the F40 and F430, he loves them both to death as well :D not that I'm complaining - I too (although will probably never get to drive one) also regard them as amongst the best ;)

I agree with your comment on Vauxhalls, however they are a 'reasonably' good car, but of course in the company of Ferraris and the like, well they are just shadows...

I also think he does only sometimes not most times hit the nail on the head.

For me he's bias comes accross to loudly rather than being truly objective.

I will concede though, it would be hard, considering he gets to sample and 'taste' soooooo many of the Worlds finest cars - I envy him for that part...

[oneightoo]

Not many people like Clarkson. I tend to think he's *pretty* spot on with most cars he drives.

totally agree with you there..

tho at times he is biased against vauxhall and french cars.. although his reports are humourous, it does seem like he doesnt give certain cars a "fair go" so to speak..

for the record, im a fan of jeremy..

[MK]

In my opinion, he is just a show man (and a very good one i might add) just like any other reporter in car magazines and TV shows i do not listen and take under consideration on what they have to say about the cars they reviewing :)

mind you Top Gear is one of my favourite shows on TV...but that's about it. :)

[Rhino]

I'll bite.

It was the VXR not the SRiT...
My apologies... nonetheless to me, it's the same car. Sure, one has a bit more power...


1. He was deliberately causing understeer. If you try to put 170 kw through any FWD car in a hard turn, of course it will understeer.
Oh dear. He was deliberately *causing* understeer? I can't believe you wrote that. It's not like the 'hammerhead' is a roundabout that he was pushing it into. A badly designed chassis and suspension causes understeer. I bought a $150? part that made my car handle better...

'Defensive' rant out of the way... my point being that I have seen more powerful, RWD cars go around that corner quicker. And if I go and check all my vids... probably less powerful FWD cars too.

Car designers aren't stupid... or are they? If the general public knows that you can't push big power through a FWD car, why do they
a) keep upping the kW (Answer: because narrow sighted ppl think that's all there is to life and driving a car)
b) not make it handle better?
c) not make it RWD if they are tired of copping flack over a car that doesn't handle.

You're not attacking Jeremy's opinion of the car, you're making excuses for it not doing it's job.


The Megane did the same thing too BTW but he made a joke out of it, saying it 'smokes. BTW: RWD cars oversteer in the same situation, but Jeremy seems to think that's all good fun. Well it's not. In the real world on unpredictable roads, oversteer quickly turns into wrapping yourself around the scenery or at least smacking your wheel alignment out on the curb.
Well for a Megane, it's probably pretty bloody exciting that it would have enough power to pull my pop off my nanna. Can't hate a guy for some enthusiasm.

As for RWD... well, there are so many places I could go here...

For ppl that (have) only drive(n) FWD cars... 'losing' control of the back is a bad thing. Sure, having little restraint with the right foot will get you in trouble in any vehicle... but he is talking about handling (and specifically, he has put it on a 'track'). You can accelerate through oversteer and control it. You cannot accelerate through understeer, cos you will "wrap yourself around the scenery or at least smack your wheel alignment out on the curb."

Not really open to too much debate. I've been driving my car for 4 years. Done multiple track days with it... and I'm here to tell you... it's a 'zippy' car... but it doesn't handle too well.

Increase the power... handling goes down.
Improve handling... we're only back where we started.
A car that doesn't *really* handle.


2. The VXR holds the class record at Nordschleife...

...and keeps winning other events, it does go around corners, please show any review (apart from Jeremy Clarkson) that claims it doesn't. The only complaints I have seen are about torque steer, not cornering ability.

digifish
It goes around Nordshcleife? I've seen Sebien(sp?) drive a bloody van around Nordschleife... Given that I have not myself taken my car or the VXR (which for all intents and purposes is the same thing) to the Nurburgring, I do not intend to entertain this line of 'reasoning', other than to say, that from what I have seen (videos of my mate who has taken his 180 around Nurburgring), it is a very fast track... and not too many 'hammerheads' or roundabouts... so it isn't going to 'push' through turns... so, it comes down to power, which we already know... it has on tap.

As for me showing you a review... me driving one for 4 years doesn't give me a right to agree with Jeremy Clarkson?

But I can see that we're all going to get sensitive over it... "how dare you talk badly about Vauxhall / Opel / Holden / Daewoo!!!" ... I think my car is good FOR WHAT IT IS... but let's not kid ourselves into pretending it is more than that. Cos quite frankly, if you dive into your very soul and try and look for a thing called objectivity... if you want a powerful car that handles well... would you buy an Astra?

NO. If you think otherwise, you're lying to yourself. Esp since there are now strong competitors on the market.

I have one... don't forget this, this isn't a jealous rant or sledging. Like I said, I think it's zippy (I can certainly overtake when I want to), it isn't the best handling car I have driven, but certainly does what I EXPECT it to do... and the brakes are phenomenally good at doing their job. Torque steer IS bad.

But ultimately and most importantly, it does 1 thing...

what I EXPECT it to do.

[digifish]

Oh dear. He was deliberately *causing* understeer? I can't believe you wrote that.

Come on Rhino, yes deliberately causing understeer, he floored a 177 kw, light, FWD car in the hammerhead. What do you expect?

As for winning things...

I assume you have seen this.

http://www.opelaus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13142&highlight=VXR

You claimed that it can't go around corners, I asked you to show any review that said it had understeer issues. I have yet to see one.

BTW: I neither own nor desire to own a VXR.

digifish

[Rhino]

Come on Rhino, yes deliberately causing understeer, he floored a 177 kw, light, FWD car in the hammerhead. What do you expect?

As for winning things...

I assume you have seen this.

http://www.opelaus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13142&highlight=VXR

You claimed that it can't go around corners, I asked you to show any review that said it had understeer issues. I have yet to see one.

BTW: I neither own nor desire to own a VXR.

digifish
He also said that if you get OFF the gas it oversteered... Does that not sound like handling issues to you?

I absolutely claim that it can't go around corners... cos I drive one (that point not really getting through is it). Why do I need to find a 'professionally' written review. And why is it that you'll blindly support positive articles and not negative ones?

We are being subjective or objective are we not? And this thread started off by Clarkson being pulled up on saying the Veccy and Astra having understeer problem - and I agree with him.

NOTE: When the G SRiT came out it also did very well in the Targa Rally, driven by Crompton I think... But that one *may* have had mods.

My opinion stands.

[Blitz_Silvia]

I can honestly say that comming from driving rwd turbo silvia's im finding it hard to adjust to driving a larger car, and it DEFINATELY was not built for handling.
Its quite awkward to steer around corners and i cant quite feel where it is on the road but i guess thats just cause im so used to driving a small fast rwd car that corners like its on rails lol.
but i agree it does wat i expect and more :) its so smooth and nice to drive that its a good change for me, much better for daily driving to and from work.

[bornwild]

Ah well, it's arguable how much understeer the astra has, but my guess is that it wouldn't be such a good car. :)

[blueraven]

understeer or oversteer, a skilled driver knows how to drive *around* both.

we all know you dont drive a fwd car like a rwd car and vice versa (nor awd). i know that in my car i can rip around a track without inducing understeer if i choose too (although i will induce the understeer in the right circumstance) and it will probably feel slower, but will be faster than planting it all over the place and controlling the bags of understeer that will ensue. Same goes for a rwd car, you drive to suit the car/road/circumstance.

for what it is the astra srit (and i guess the vxr) is very good all round, it handles better than most cars in its class, but outside its class you cant say its anything but "competant". I know my astra has a couple suspension mods, lowere/sway bar etc..but my mate in his bone stock evo 9 shocked me with how well it went through a particular twisty road. sure when i drove it in my car i managed to get thru about as quick, but i did slip slide a fair bit (yes, mostly the front) and i was on the ragged edge, my mate most certainly was not (and he had a passenger).


Horses for courses people.

any back to the Veccy c.
Buy the CDXI. DONT take it to a track, and enjoy a car that has just about every feature of a much more expensive car, drives smooth and swift, and looks pretty darn good from most angles :).

[Vectracious]

any back to the Veccy c.
Buy the CDXI. DONT take it to a track, and enjoy a car that has just about every feature of a much more expensive car, drives smooth and swift, and looks pretty darn good from most angles :).

+1

A Veccy C is going to make an excellent tourer, but not something you can really race around a track or do a motorkhana in.

And yes, Jeremy Clarkson is a prat for highlighting understeer issues in the VXR Vectra - but it is television - he's got to make it entertaining so people can tune in. In the same interview he also praises it for being the 5th fastest 4 door car available in Britain at the time. And his problems with Vectra's go way back - I think he just picked one of the most common "rep-mobiles" and kept going on and on about it until his hate became legendary. Vauxhall probably loved it as well.