Commodore Omega vs Astra CDti

[digifish]

I just dropped my car off at the dealer to have the oil leak fixed and was given a Commodore Omega loan-car.

This was my first drive of the Commodore (4800 km on the clock), yes - base model Omega I know. However after reading a lot about it in the press and the world-class suspension etc I was paying attention to the ride/dandling as I drove to work. Just normal City driving, so bear that in mind.

It was interesting stepping straight out of an Astra CDTi (45 min trip) into one and driving one for 30 min.

The short review is, the Commodore felt blunt and slow after the precision and surge of the Astra, it was certainly a more relaxed and comfortable ride, but if you enjoy communication through the seat of your pants then the Omega isn't going to thrill you. About the suspension - My impression was that the chassis/suspension did indeed feel solid and planted, however the rest of the car felt loose around this base and the tyres squirmy and vague. I never pushed the car BTW: this is all 40-80 km/hr driving and cornering like it was mine (i.e treating it nicely).

digifish

[GreyRex]

Yeah dont worry, i was the same... and that STUPID sterring wheel. How that can be bloody ergonomic i do not know. Worked for Holden for a bit when it was released. Then i got an SSV at Lang Lang proving grounds... HOLY @%&#!! LOL

[Wraith]

I was gonna say - blunt and slow would most certainly NOT have been the case if you had a V8 powered example, your 1.9 CDTi would be the blunt and slow one ;)

[digifish]

I was gonna say - blunt and slow would most certainly NOT have been the case if you had a V8 powered example, your 1.9 CDTi would be the blunt and slow one ;)

Then, I'd say you haven't driven the CDTi (sport on) :p

I have driven the previous model SS BTW.

The blunt was in reference to the handling.

digifish

[Wraith]

Fair enough, Commo's have always had 'wooden' steering and a bit of bluntness in the handling, but let me tell you and I've said this before in other threads, please go and test drive a VE GTS or Clubby.......the normal V6 VE Commo range have nothing on these variants !

I've owned a VT series 2 HSV Clubsport R8 and it pales in comparison, I'm talking steering feel and handling here, not power/performance, for a huge car, it's pretty darn good ;)

As for power, well over 310kw (although they advertise it as only 307) and 400nm at 1000rpm with a peak of 550nm will make anyone happy, combined with rear wheel drive, it's a great joy and heaps of fun to drive, even with an auto trans :)

[digifish]

I've owned a VT series 2 HSV Clubsport R8 and it pales in comparison, I'm talking steering feel and handling here, not power/performance, for a huge car, it's pretty darn good ;)

As for power, well over 310kw (although they advertise it as only 307) and 400nm at 1000rpm with a peak of 550nm will make anyone happy, combined with rear wheel drive, it's a great joy and heaps of fun to drive, even with an auto trans :)

...and on the other side, I am comparing a sport-tuned, top of the range? Astra with the base Commodore. I suppose I was just surprised at how ordinary it felt after the hype I have seen in the press, base-model or not. It certainly feels better than the previous model, as I said, it did feel solid and planted.

That said, the standard AH Astra has excellent handling in comparison.

There is no doubt any V8 Commodore from the last 5? years is fun to point and squirt.

If you can compare an apple with an bannana, I got the feeling the Astra is a better engineering league than the Commodore.

digifish

[luvpsi]

what about the current holden commercials where they compare the new commodore with the 5 series BMW and state that its steering, handling, blah blah blah... is better than that of the BMW:eek: what a load of crap :mad: commodore's price is the only winner in the comparison

[GreyRex]

what about the current holden commercials where they compare the new commodore with the 5 series BMW and state that its steering, handling, blah blah blah... is better than that of the BMW:eek: what a load of crap :mad: commodore's price is the only winner in the comparison

Lol i'd reckon you're pretty spot on

[digifish]

Lol i'd reckon you're pretty spot on

Well it wasn't even as good as my 2003 VW Passat (V5) either...power was better, but handling and gearbox (auto) certainly were not.

digifish

[KID_SRi]

The Omega is the Base Model, What do yo expect.
Like Wraith Said, Drive a VE SSV or Calais V or a HSV.
Your attitude will change.
Astra AH(Not SRi,SRi Turbo & VXR) Handle like wet sponges compared to the Astra G.

[digifish]

The Omega is the Base Model, What do yo expect.
Like Wraith Said, Drive a VE SSV or Calais V or a HSV.
Your attitude will change.
Astra AH(Not SRi,SRi Turbo & VXR) Handle like wet sponges compared to the Astra G.

You forgot CDTi :P

[Wraith]

what about the current holden commercials where they compare the new commodore with the 5 series BMW and state that its steering, handling, blah blah blah... is better than that of the BMW:eek: what a load of crap :mad: commodore's price is the only winner in the comparison

I've never driven a Beemer M5 of any model, so I can't compare this to a HSV VE, but I've driven both an E36 and E46 M3 and I reckon the new HSV VE's are well and truly up there !

Not as light and nimble as the M3, but it's very, very good, especially when you consider the overall size of the car - I mean the VE really is a huge sedan.

The VE (at least the HSV's) is not just a point and shoot car anymore, it can handle and manouvre very well - you won't know unless you try one out :)

[entice]

SSV drives very differently to Omega.
Also, SV6 drives very differently to teh Omega aswell.
The 190 odd Kw engine is very very differnt to teh base.

[blueraven]

.
The 190 odd Kw engine is very very differnt to teh base.

all your base belong to us!

[stevedee3]

Like Wraith Said, Drive a VE SSV or Calais V or a HSV.
Your attitude will change.Yeah, drive something with FE2 before making comparisons :)

[auzvectra]

As for power, well over 310kw (although they advertise it as only 307) and 400nm at 1000rpm with a peak of 550nm will make anyone happy,

they still cant get round the old boy's VY SI SV8, mine you it has been retuned to 340kw ;).

[dieselhead]

why are we comparing CDTI with cars with engine 3X the size of the diesel, and prices more than 50% higher? they are not even in the same league, one being a medium sized hatch while the other is one of the largest sedans on the market.
i think digifish was saying the Omega felt such a dissapointment compared to the CDTI after all the media hype, that's all. i agree with him, have driven a VE Berlina on gas last week and it felt just terrible, both power and cornering wise.
the Astra CDTI is a $30k on road car, let's not forget that. with a just bit of tuning it will give you fantastic performance for the money, beating say a SV6 anyday, while using half the fuel. that's good enough for me :)

[mintaka]

why are we comparing CDTI with cars with engine 3X the size of the diesel, and prices more than 50% higher? they are not even in the same league, one being a medium sized hatch while the other is one of the largest sedans on the market.
i think digifish was saying the Omega felt such a dissapointment compared to the CDTI after all the media hype, that's all. i agree with him, have driven a VE Berlina on gas last week and it felt just terrible, both power and cornering wise.
the Astra CDTI is a $30k on road car, let's not forget that. with a just bit of tuning it will give you fantastic performance for the money, beating say a SV6 anyday, while using half the fuel. that's good enough for me :)

Just have to agree. I've driven lots of Commodore hire cars lately, and they certianally feels blunt, soggy and not all that torquey. Of the Falcon or Commodore, I'd rather have the Falcon.

But I'd really rather my CDTi.


:p

Forgot to add, I'm gong to hire a Crysler 300C diesel this Easter Holiday Period. Merc 510 nm V6 mmmmmm, should be interesting (I've heard the rest of the car is rubbish however)

Mintaka

[entice]

Ahem... 400Kws ahem... Commodore..

umm rumour... :)

umm this year release... :)



Dunno about you boys I dont really see Mr Plod lining up for the dynamics of ANY Astra....




Even compared to my 30+ yr old Italian Screamer, teh Astra G and H's all drive like boats! Floating all ove rteh road. Esp the H. Never before have I had a car that requires so much mid corner correction, and so sensitive to mid corner intrusions.

Maybe at fodder speeds you get the impression of a crappy handler in the large "Australian" but pushed hard, it drives real well...

[entice]

the Astra CDTI is a $30k on road car, let's not forget that.


No,
It's a 30K + ORC car.

and, I really dunno how we come up with 3yr redbook values of 72% when it hasnt even been 3yrs on the market.

[shoey85]

everyone keeps saying to drive the better than stock commo but the cdti is not top of the range! yeah its a nice little car but it is the only modle holden are importing for some time, so you cant compair it to a F&^%ING GTS como, plus the GTS is so ugly!!!!!!!!!

[shoey85]

No,
It's a 30K + ORC car.

and, I really dunno how we come up with 3yr redbook values of 72% when it hasnt even been 3yrs on the market.


i would like to see any one get a como +ORC for 30k, NOT GONNA HAPPEN!, you dont get features like the cdti in the omega!

[entice]

umm.. yeah.. but the CDTi Commands a 10K (that's 50%) premium over teh standard base Astra....

[dieselhead]

Forgot to add, I'm gong to hire a Crysler 300C diesel this Easter Holiday Period. Merc 510 nm V6 mmmmmm, should be interesting
Mintaka

how much do you pay for that mintaka? i would do it, just to see how a large V6 turbodiesel feels like :)

entice, drive a CDTi, manual, that has standard sports/15mm lowered suspension and 225/40/R18 and see how well that thing corners. even the standard AH had pretty good reviews worldwide for ride and suspension compliance. let's say the VE has still to prove itself internationaly...

entice, got mine with 18" for $30k on road, so i can't belive one would pay more than that for one with stock 16" alloys. and let's just say the CDTI is the base diesel version of the AH range here in Oz :)

sure, it's been sold here only since last June only, but in Europe the car and the engine are known for quite a few years now. that's why Redbook reckons the CDTI has 72% resale value.

[shoey85]

entice, got mine with 18" for $30k on road, so i can't belive one would pay more than that for one with stock 16" alloys. and let's just say the CDTI is the base diesel version of the AH range here in Oz :)

yeah im getting mine 4, $34600 drive away with spoiler, body kit, 18s, tint, mats, mudflaps, astra door plates & a full tank of juice!

[auzvectra]

and the g sri-t certainly doesnt handle like a boat!!!!
love that lotus designed setup :D. my astra is certainly the best handling car i have driven, and any1 that can 1/2 reasonably handle a car should be able to say the same about most opels, even our new combo (VAN) handles great, i can keep up with the average car on the mountains ;), just not the mx5 that my astra sits with :(.

[entice]

umm, you seem to forget..

I HAVE driven a CDTI, and quite frankly am not impressed with the handling of it. Yet again, I even am considering one closely as a next purchase. Even still, I am not trying to disillusion myself and cement my potential purchase by making myself feel good in thinking it habdles well...In MY view, it doesnt. Neither do many otehr cars out there on the market. Oh, and yes, I have 18's also on my AH. Still handles like absolute crap. Oh, teh CDTI I drove was on teh stock 16's...admittedly, not on 18's. It still suffers from floaty handling, and mid corner jitters. Pushed harder and harder, teh wife's G convertible handles better than the AH series, and even that feels like it tippy toes all over the road. There is no feeling of solidity in the handling.
If you think that teh Astra handles well, do yourself a favour, go drive an MX5. Not even a new one.. try an 8 or so year old one.. see how a car should handle, out of the box, without cosing teh earth.

I am in no way bagging teh CDTI. For what it is, it's a great car. But, and I stress, a quick point to point, fun, great handling little gem, it is not.. it is full of compromises that make it a neat overall package, esp when >2 seats are required, but a standout performer? Nope. Granted, it's a good thing, but great? not in my definition of it. Great would be an Mx5 (even NA'd always brang a smile to my face even in traffic), STI (even with it's compromises - produced a huge grin driven hard), Elise (again compromised - but pure horn). A compact, comfy, economical and cheap form of transport, yes. A place does exist for it on teh market, but I wont be seeing I dont see mazda 3 MPS drivers lining up to trade. In it's kleague, it's good, but you also need to compare it to the base, 20K car as it's equivalent.

[entice]

and the g sri-t certainly doesnt handle like a boat!!!!
Ok, that's one I haven't driven. But, most opels that I have, the weight shift in cornering is horrible, and not confidence inspiring...
I defer to your experience on teh G SRi-T (actually havent driven any 3 door astra's,,,oh wait, yep, i did drive a G turbo Coupe.. as I recall, it was a tad laggy, but it was not in final trim) That did handle pretty well though.

[dieselhead]

entice, you say the Gs and the AHs drive like boats. you also say the SSV drive is really good... how can it be? have not driven yet the new VE version of the SS, but hey, 1,900kg must feel like 1,900kg when cornering, regardless of the model version. if big old Commodores are that good, why don't we have a few in the WRC, competing minuscule WRXs, Peugeots, Skodas and Citroens?

i agree, the MX-5 is a legend, but again, that's in a league of its own... you can't compare the Astra nor any Commo flavour with that! maybe the new Opel GT will give it a run for the money :)

[entice]

Dieselhead, you mis-take me. For what it is, bearing in mind it's weight, it handles really well...belying its mass. The reason why you dont see the SSV in the WRC circuit is teh same reason you dont see the WRC cars in the F1 circuit. (I hope you were'nt being serious with this question).. the SSV lacks the restrictor on it's turbo and hence doesnt qualify for WRC.. :)

If you ever do get the chance, you should drive one, I think you will be impressed. It's actually quite a dynamic vehicle, for it's league. Granted, you may not be swayed, but for someone who needs teh smace and carrying capacity, it's a damn good drive.

[shoey85]

Dieselhead, you mis-take me. For what it is, bearing in mind it's weight, it handles really well...belying its mass. The reason why you dont see the SSV in the WRC circuit is teh same reason you dont see the WRC cars in the F1 circuit. (I hope you were'nt being serious with this question).. the SSV lacks the restrictor on it's turbo and hence doesnt qualify for WRC.. :)

If you ever do get the chance, you should drive one, I think you will be impressed. It's actually quite a dynamic vehicle, for it's league. Granted, you may not be swayed, but for someone who needs teh smace and carrying capacity, it's a damn good drive.


all things aside resale on the como range is disgusting, you will only get half what you paid for it in like only 2-3 years.

[digifish]

Just have to agree. I've driven lots of Commodore hire cars lately, and they certianally feels blunt, soggy and not all that torquey.

Indeed. I got to bring the Omega home...as they are still working on mine, it's quite a shock to go from a 1.9 4 cyl hatch to a 3.6 v6 sedan and wonder where all the torque went :)

[mintaka]

how much do you pay for that mintaka? i would do it, just to see how a large V6 turbodiesel feels like :)



$130 a day for 6 days. Not cheap, could have got a Falcodore for a lot less per day, but it's the novelty. I could have had the V8 Hemi, but when the diesel option as offered, how could I refuse.

It's a hire firm in Perth. I'll let you know how it goes after Easter.

Mintaka

[mintaka]

Indeed. I got to bring the Omega home...as they are still working on mine, it's quite a shock to go from a 1.9 4 cyl hatch to a 3.6 v6 sedan and wonder where all the torque went :)


It's very bland, there's no "shove in the back" like you get with the CDTi. But that could be just the turbo effect.
Like I said though, the Falcon definantly feel more like a large 6 cyl than the Commodore. If I had to buy an aussie 6, I thinking it wouldn't be the Commodore. FPV Typhon anyone??

I agree that you would expect a big six to feel more powerful than a 1.9 L even if it is turboed. And that gets back to the main reason why I love the CDTi. Big 6 torque for small 4 enconomy. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Now, if someone wants to pay the fuel bill for me, could I have a SS 6 L V8? No..... damn!

Mintaka

[auzvectra]

just to finish off with entice (off topic i know ;)).
i know the mx5 is a great handler, but the G sri-t would really surprise you, with a decent set of tyres, my mate is the fastest i have seen around a tight track, n i can sit inches from him the whole time to worrries, we littereally sit about a foot apart (well when i'm behind) and go for it flat out.
you need to remember that the sri-t has been redone by lotus, n done very well, it has a stiffer torsion beam, stiffer shocks, stiffer and lower coils, and there more mod's i just forget what (TC/ESP+ is always off on the track)

i havent seen any massive depriciation on the combo, but either way, it's a cheap work car, great on fuel, plenty of grunt even from a 1.4L, and it handles great, doesnt even body roll with a load on the roof, put 10kg's on a hiace and it will nearly tip over, we've had just over 100kg's on the roof of the combo, and all you get is a bit of an echo in the roll nothing more (mind you we havent set the tyres to the fully loaded psi, so that would eliminate most of it).
as far as i know the only real issue with handling in the opels is the vectra b, mid corner had a massive weight shift, which is corrected by new shocks and coils. my astra sits very flat, n the combo sits just as flat.
mitsu galant VR4 turbo AWD having trouble keeping up to the combo;) well not gaining anyway.

[entice]

OK, we agree to disagree about the majority of the cars ( havent driven a combo, nor a G sriT). I somehow dont find teh same results (AH and G 'vert), even though I've had both current cars set up (alignment and pressure wise) by a person that shold know what they are doing. the same person has set up the cars I am comparing it to. Heck, the MX5 even handled heaps better than the STI.. roadholding? well that's a different story.

WRT your comments of the SRIT keeping p with the '5. I dont doubt that at all. The '5 in NA trim is a 1.6, or 1.8L motor car, naturally aspirated. The '5 is an example of great balance, and handling, for minimal costs. Striaght out of teh box, on standard rubber, and suspension componentry. No Mods required, just a decent alignment. It is unfair, I know, to compare it to completely different class of vehicles in the AH and the CDTi. The only reason (I think) I brought it up was that handling was brought into question, with 2 complete different cars being compared (Omega V Astra).

[auzvectra]

at least we agree ;).
next time ur down the coast (if my cars back on the road), i'll take you for a run to show what i'm saying, and i'll bring the mx5 along too ;).

[Apex]

Nice thread.

What I have gathered from this thread is that if you own a cdti you become of the belief you are driving the best car in the world, and that some people that drive hatchbacks believe they can out handle the most awarded sports car ever made!

Very constructive! Loving it.:D

[auzvectra]

who mentioned OUT handle ???
oh by the way the mx5 will kill an sti on a tight track, high speed i dont know.

[entice]

I guess that all depends on your definition of a "tight track".

Having owned both cars, I can say:
Phillip Island? Nope, STI wins
Calder... Same as above
sandown? see above
Winton Short and long tracks? See above

Mind you, the SP MX5 (not to be confused with the SE) comes close, but the above still holds true.

[Wraith]

Nice thread.

What I have gathered from this thread is that if you own a cdti you become of the belief you are driving the best car in the world, and that some people that drive hatchbacks believe they can out handle the most awarded sports car ever made!

Very constructive! Loving it.:D

I couldn't agree more..........:rolleyes:

This is becomming very similar to the diesel vs petrol thread....

IMHO Entice has stated it all, as it is, with his posts, despite this it's a never ending debate.

[xplosv57]

LOL i love how were comparing 2 cars from 2 different categories, medium size to large, obviously if youre paying 30k for a medium size car youre gonna get more features than a similar priced large car!!!! Plus the Omega still retains old features from the older models, 4spd auto etc!!!

I really wanna test drive a VE, to see its comparison to other vehicles, and having driven pretty much all the 5 series models, will be good to see if the comment on the TV ad is true!!!

[xplosv57]

If i was to choose however id get the CDTi only because it is better optioned (obviously) and the Omega is a base model, plus the fuel economy advantage but thats only compared to the Omega, otherwise i couldnt go past the good ol commodore!!

[mintaka]

Nice thread.

What I have gathered from this thread is that if you own a cdti you become of the belief you are driving the best car in the world, and that some people that drive hatchbacks believe they can out handle the most awarded sports car ever made!

Very constructive! Loving it.:D

LOL

OK, lets get a few things clear. Remember that I'm from the floaming in the month, mad as a hatter diesel sniffing brigade...

Those of us who like the CDTi do so becuase it it's the best COMPROMISE between the different requirements we have for a car. We want power AND economy, handling AND practicality, price AND toys, etc, etc,

There are faster cars, better handling cars, bigger cars, cheaper cars. Those cars will suit different people with a slightly different requirements set.

Lets take entice as an example. He wants to have better handling, therefore is prepared to pay for it with bigger wheels, harder ride and so forth.

I on the other hand would want a more compliant suspension and think that the current suspension on the CDTi is just a little harsh.

So who's right and who's wrong? Clearly, neither of us. It's the set of choices we made.

If I wanted the best handling car, I'd most likely go MX5 and put up with no back seat.
If I wanted the fastest car it would be a SS or VXR or WRX
If I wanted to most fuel efficient car, it would be a 307 HDi 1.6 or Prius II
If I wanted total practicality, I would get a Tarago, etc
If I wanted the cheapest car, I would get a new Barina (NO, actually I'd rather rip my own head off first!)

What we have in the CDTi, as far as I'M conerned, is the best compromise of the above. For ME. Not for everybody.

I like the discussions that are happening here. I would hate for them to turn into "My willie is better than your willie" slag fest as I've seen happen in other boards. No one will admit that they bought the wrong car, so it's a little pointless in trying to convert one to the other.

I like my CDTi, but one day something will come along that's better. (or I will get more money to spend - not holding my breath). It maybe another diesel, but if petrol engines have caught up in the consumption stakes, it could a be a petrol. It could be an electric car if battery advances keep going the way that are!

But either way, the CDTi is not the best car in the world. It's just the best car for ME, right now.

Sorry to sound like a nanny.

Mintaka

[CJB]

Having driven the Omega, and the SS and the Calais, I really don't think they are anything special.

I think some parts on the inside, like the centre consol feel really cheap!!!!

The design is great, but the build quality is a little off.

I think they are two different cars, shouldn't be compared... the only comparing both cars should be doing, is to your lifestyle. What you need/want/desire.

[auzvectra]

very well put mintaka, this is just the same as i would rather drive our new work car ('07 combo) then drive my dad's 12 sec VY commodore.
and for SO many reasons :(, as the combo is better ride, better handling "FEEL" (the commo handles well, but feels like a wet sponge), better fuel economy, better stereo (mp3 :D), better interior.
as for negatives, i dont class the lack of power as a negative, as it makes the car so much smoother (although it goes pretty hard neway), it has no central locking or elec windows, oh and no cruise control :(.