Wheels Hot Hatch Comparo

[jimeegee]

Check out Wheels Mag this issue for the Hot Hatch comparo they've been promising since last July. The results are not surprising...

The competitors are:
Ford Focus XR5 Turbo
HSV VXR
Mazda 3 MPS
Renaultsport Megane 225 F1
VW Golf GTi

I reckon the results are about spot on too :)

[JohnBu]

mind doing a quick wrap up :D

[Tfer]

Yeah... what he said :D

[jimeegee]

Ok, didn't want to spoil it for anyone, but here's there chance to look away, if they care as much as me...weird hey...



Haven't read the article yet, but results are as follows (in stars):
VW - 4.5
Renault - 4
Ford - 3.5
Mazda - 3.5
HSV - 3

Put it down to HSV, coz I love my Astra and they haven't had their grubby hands all over it :P Haha...

[MatsHolden]

Put it down to OPC... :p HSV only put on a badge haha

[jimeegee]

It still has the diseased VvVauxhaul Grill...it must hate itself for that...errr germs...

[auzvectra]

strange, at a quick guess i would have said:
mps 3
Golf gti
Hsv Vxr
Ford Xr5

dont know where to put the renault ;)

[jimeegee]

For me I'd go:
GTi
Megane
MPS
XR5
VXR

But the VXR is the best looking I reckon, but I like cars that go around corners and then accelerate without veering off course or being absurdly controlled by computers. The MPS is good, but suddenly a little bit "dorky"

[auzvectra]

i was thinking in way of speed, looks didnt come into my thoughts :).

[jsantos]

Why do all the journo's love the GTI so much?

[jimeegee]

The GTi is a great car...all round...its a safe way of keeping more people happy. The VXR is obviously going to be the choice if you like dragging and generally looking cooler than the others. The MPS is also quick, the Megane is best for people who like track work, motorkhana and a fang on a twisty road, and the XR5, well I think looks rank from behind, but sounds great and handles ok if you're soft....haha ok might be a bit harsh...

[auzvectra]

harsh but honest, thats the way to be ;).

[jsantos]

Fair enough, i found the GTI to be a no more enjoyable then my mums saab, "nice enough" bores me to tears though. I guess its all about demographics.

[jimeegee]

Probably. Personally I would find a Saab a little softly sprung for what I like to do. But so is the Golf and my car. That's why I'd like something with the accuracy and suspenision of the Megane in a package as neat and well designed as the GTi. Thankfully there are plenty of tuning packages for the Golf to help make this possible. Probably why I intend on doing it to my Astra....both pretty similar, but the Golf is a better car.

[auzvectra]

Probably why I intend on doing it to my Astra.....

i'm, sure i can help there ;)

[Shaun]

Read the Article. they gave the MPS and VXR much the same rating ... The focus and Golf the same rating and the Renault sit in between the other four. i Take that as being a balance between them all.

[jimeegee]

That's fine to talk about what they think, but I'm putting forward my opinion having driven them. We're all entitled to that. The MPS and VXR are given much the same rating as they are overpowered. As I say, I prefer a well balanced car which I personally think the Golf is, but the Megane certainly handles better.

[Shaun]

That's fine to talk about what they think, but I'm putting forward my opinion having driven them. We're all entitled to that. The MPS and VXR are given much the same rating as they are overpowered. As I say, I prefer a well balanced car which I personally think the Golf is, but the Megane certainly handles better.

I wasnt saying that... i was saying what the article was saying.

VXR and MPS are more on the power side of things and the Golf and Focus are more about everyday driving. Renualt sits somewhere in the middle of them

[jimeegee]

Originally Posted by jimeegee
That's fine to talk about what they think

Think you misunderstood me. I'm aware you are stating what the magazine is saying, I'm stating my opinion.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by jimeegee
That's fine to talk about what they think

Think you misunderstood me. I'm aware you are stating what the magazine is saying, I'm stating my opinion.

Thats cool... My opinion isnt what the Magazine says as well. Dissagree with the "torque steer" issue on the VXR . Have driven one and had no issue with it.

Cant see how it would be a Huge problem either with the MPS considering a LSD and Traction control is fitted to the MPS.
Found that strange they said that when the have praised it in the past.

[Wraith]

I havn't seen/read the article yet, but those results look about right to me ;)

It's not surprising the 'usual' favourite ie: the Gti won, it always does, it has the best balance of 'all' things considered, although for most 'car enthusiasts' it's underpowered and boring :D and the top spec model is way too pricey and I'll bet they took into account the basic models price tag.

VXR coming last - no surprise to me, it'll only ever come 1st place if there's a hot hatch external looks competition ;)

I don't care what anyone says, in my view it's price tag is it's biggest concern !

[rjastra]

and the top spec model is way too pricey and I'll bet they took into account the basic models price tag.

Now, exactly what does the "base" spec model golf lack compared to all the other base spec cars in the comparison???

Leather? only standard on the VXR
Xenons? ONly standard on the Megane
Sunroof? only available from factory on the Golf
Auto? only available on the golf.

[Tfer]

I havn't seen/read the article yet, but those results look about right to me ;)

It's not surprising the 'usual' favourite ie: the Gti won, it always does, it has the best balance of 'all' things considered, although for most 'car enthusiasts' it's underpowered and boring :D and the top spec model is way too pricey and I'll bet they took into account the basic models price tag.

VXR coming last - no surprise to me, it'll only ever come 1st place if there's a hot hatch external looks competition ;)

I don't care what anyone says, in my view it's price tag is it's biggest concern !

Wraith... agree with you on this one.... I believe the Golf GTi to be the best balanced across all the various test areas, where as the others shine in perhaps a couple only each.... therefore the Golf GTi would win. ;)

[Wraith]

Now, exactly what does the "base" spec model golf lack compared to all the other base spec cars in the comparison???

Leather? only standard on the VXR
Xenons? ONly standard on the Megane
Sunroof? only available from factory on the Golf
Auto? only available on the golf.

Not exactly sure.....the point I was making is that there's a price difference of from low 40's to low 50's on road for Golf Gti, so there must be plenty to add.

Each to their own, but personally I would'nt touch one for like over 52k with everything added - would rather the MPS 3 for 45-48k (depending where you get it from) with everything :)

Don't get me wrong I'm not 'totally' knocking the thing, that's clear in my first posting here and as you say, base model wise it may afterall compare favourably, I was thinking out loud (as I havn't read the article yet) that maybe they - Motor based their conclusions taking into account value for money as a main criteria, therfore the base model Gti at low 40's would obviously do well ;)

I'll get a hold of it and read it later today :)

[GreyRex]

Wow this one's got a few people talking. Got it sitting here with me on my desk at work... think it's pretty much spot on. Obviously I havent driven all of them, but I feel as though their point was put across well. As with all cars, it's more subjective. There might be a 'winner' as such in their eyes, but you buy them for different reasons. Some people think the Golf is overpriced, especially once you throw in one or two options. Myself... I can't comprehend how the XR5 doesn't have cruise control. As they said though... we didn't have this many choices only two or three years ago...

[rjastra]

Each to their own, but personally I would'nt touch one for like over 52k with everything added - would rather the MPS 3 for 45-48k (depending where you get it from) with everything

To match the spec of the MPS3 Lux all you need to add to the Golf is leather and bixenons (i think the msp3 only has xenon low beams). About $4000 of extras or $44K +ORC. Remember too that the MPS3 only has partial leather seats with no seat heating.

So, all up , pretty evenly matched on equipment for the price

To breach $50K you would have to throw in Sat Nav and a sunroof. Neither available on the MPS3.

[Mr T]

Heres my opinion...if anyone cares.

1. Golf
2. Magane
3. 3MPS
4. VXR
5. XR5

Because (apart from an Astra G) the Golf is the best all round package, followed closely by the Renault. The 3MPS is lacking in areas but has the performance sorted out. The VXR is overrated and over priced, it's only available in 3 dr, it is meant to be quick but the GTI is quicker and the Mazda eats it with its eyes closed. And the ford is just shit - it runs 15's for **** sake...!!!

I think they got it (almost) right...:clap:

[Wraith]

To match the spec of the MPS3 Lux all you need to add to the Golf is leather and bixenons (i think the msp3 only has xenon low beams). About $4000 of extras or $44K +ORC. Remember too that the MPS3 only has partial leather seats with no seat heating.

So, all up , pretty evenly matched on equipment for the price

To breach $50K you would have to throw in Sat Nav and a sunroof. Neither available on the MPS3.

Don't really wanna get too carried away with this but........

At 44k +ORC the Gti will end up pricier than the MPS 3 with similar equipment levels as you pointed out, the MPS 3 dosn't have Bi Xenons or heated seats (this is a common feature of Euro cars, not much snow weather in Japan like Europe) , but it does have massively more power and torque, an LSD and added saftey with side curtain airbags - not sure if Golf's have this option.

As for cloth/leather combination, this is actually what I would prefer ;) full leather is a long term maintanance prob and a real hassle to sit on in extreme hot weather, as I'm sure other people with full leather interiors will also tell you.

And you can get a sunroof fitted to the MPS 3 - I've enquired about that one already, it's not recommended as it breaches an extra crash safety cross bar added to the top of MPS 3's, but you can have it if you really must. That's according to info supplied to me from Essendon mazda, when I booked in my test drive not too long ago ;)

As Mizled_Sri put it, it really is subjective and everybody will have their own choices, for their own reasons, for me there's no huge gap of superiority in any one of them for an absolute winner, that's why I look at what they offer for the dollar spent as is off the showroom floor....MPS 3 is that winner for me :) epecially knowing that they can be had for as low as 43k drive away with everything ;)

Now to get a hold of that Motor Mag this arvo :)

[GreyRex]

Heres my opinion...if anyone cares.

1. Golf
2. Magane
3. 3MPS
4. VXR
5. XR5

Because (apart from an Astra G) the Golf is the best all round package, followed closely by the Renault. The 3MPS is lacking in areas but has the performance sorted out. The VXR is overrated and over priced, it's only available in 3 dr, it is meant to be quick but the GTI is quicker and the Mazda eats it with its eyes closed. And the ford is just shit - it runs 15's for **** sake...!!!

I think they got it (almost) right...:clap:

Umm, yikes thats a bit of an extreme post. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you're actually wrong. Look on page 63 and compare the VXR to the MPS. Nearly identical. Tell me that .1 or .2 of a second makes a difference in the real world!! Another thing... it's all about controllable power. Even though the XR5 isn't as fast you do not hear any reviews commenting on the fact that has noticeable torque steer like the more powerful two. Love how this creates debate lol

[JasonGilholme]

haha does the ford run 15's??

BAHAHAHA I can get easy 14's in my NA 1.6!

Thats sad.

Good to see that the discussion here sn't biased towards the astra.

Personally i like a car that handles so i'd probably lean towards the magane. Too bad it looks like a fecked up transformer. :s

[JasonGilholme]

power = torque steer.

torque steer is cause from power. My barina doesn't get torque steer because its weak. lol

[oneightoo]

lol spot on about the looks of the megane..

id want a car that looks good, has decent power and decent handling, i wouldnt be looking for a car that handles like a go-kart, thats not my thing..

id still go the astra, the look of the car is was appeals to me most.. and from what ive heard from people who have driven the vxr, torque steer isnt a problem..

[Mr T]

Umm, yikes thats a bit of an extreme post. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you're actually wrong. Look on page 63 and compare the VXR to the MPS. Nearly identical. Tell me that .1 or .2 of a second makes a difference in the real world!! Another thing... it's all about controllable power. Even though the XR5 isn't as fast you do not hear any reviews commenting on the fact that has noticeable torque steer like the more powerful two. Love how this creates debate lol

Yeah, a bit extreme...but you have to call a spade a spade.

Whats on page 63? actually don't tell me...I know of a real life example of a VXR eating the dust from a GTI.

0.1 seconds is equivalent to about a car length at the end of the 1/4...

These are meant to be Hot Hatches...Geeze, I bet the CDTi Astra would keep up with the Ford...:eek:


**quietly waits in the corner for SSS_Hoon to come in**

[rjastra]

power = torque steer.

torque steer is cause from power. My barina doesn't get torque steer because its weak. lol

And here was I thinking that torque caused "torque steer"?

[Wraith]

Just grabbed myself a copy of 'wheels mag' it is - not motor LOL........

Yes very interesting read and very interesting results.

The way I interpret their comments the Megane is their o/a prefered car, despite putting the Gti on top final score.

And despite the VXR coming in last place - score wise, it seems to me, in the end, they did not want anything to do with both the VXR and MPS 3, but were very keen on the Xr5....

I'm not surprised to read that it's engine response is better/different than the rest, they didn't mention that all the others have some variant of the Borg Warner K series turbo, but the Renault being the original inventors of the turbo charger, most probably has a more technically advanced turbo charger hanging off the engine ;)

Performance stats are interesting and they obviously didn't get the best times from the MPS 3 as we've seen much better figures for this car from owners we know of !!!

I agree with Mr T that if performance is paramount to you, then every 10th of a second counts, MPS 3 murders the pack here, the closest competitor is 0.3sec slower 80-120km/h, at those speeds, expect to be at least 2 or 3 car lengths in front - a clear win ;) and as I've mentioned they arn't the best MPS 3 times we've seen !

Another important point, which they didn't mention, is that the MPS 3 has a variable final drive ratio (taller) for 5th and 6th gears - presumeably to get better economy - but if you look at the acceleration figures for 5th and 6th gears, it totally dominates and eats the others for breakfast, despite shifting to a taller ratio !

Another result that really surprised me, was the that the VXR has the worst fuel economy, I would've thought it would be the MPS 3, seeing it has the 2nd largest engine and highest power output by a wide margin.

MPS 3 fuel burn was actually less than the Xr5, I'll have to tell one guy I know with one to stop complaining - he reckons he's MPS 3's a fuel pig :)

Final comments on VXR are as I predicted - "fast, looks cool, but not much else" !

Ah well that's that - I'm sure we all have our own ideas/conclusions :)

[JasonGilholme]

pfft dont' get technical man.

Basically a high powered car will give you torque steer and a low powered car won't.

[GreyRex]

Yeah, a bit extreme...but you have to call a spade a spade.

Whats on page 63? actually don't tell me...I know of a real life example of a VXR eating the dust from a GTI.

0.1 seconds is equivalent to about a car length at the end of the 1/4...

These are meant to be Hot Hatches...Geeze, I bet the CDTi Astra would keep up with the Ford...:eek:


**quietly waits in the corner for SSS_Hoon to come in**
If you were to look it's actually the performance stats for all the cars. You may very well have seen a GTi beat a VXR, no one's doubting that... I would say it would come down to driver skill. The Golf has 147kW and weighs 1340kgs. The Astra has 176kW and weighs 1393kgs. Even if the GTi has the DSG auto (which makes slightly quicker apparently), it won't beat the VXR stock. I am a fan of all of these cars, but if we're to call a spade a spade, a stock GTi will not beat a stock VXR lol.

[auzvectra]

where's ssshoon????
i'm waiting for a dsg post, i'm pretty sure the golf gti has the dsg, correct me if i'm wrong?
i personally think the 3 mps would easily be fastest, but there isnt much difference between cars of even a decent power difference, a slight stuff up, and the slower car can win!
and if the xr5 does a 15, then the cdti astra would beat it :), or be very close.

[auzvectra]

oh, and we all know these guys CANNOT drive front wheel cars ;).
so ignore any torque steer comments, as it's mainly due to lack of driving skill with the cars.
and the torque steer they refer to is also more due to wheel spin, which isnt toruqe steer, and more to do with a too heavier right foot, ot the car fishing for traction.

[jimeegee]

Oh oh, here comes a controversial comment:

The Wheels journos may not be able to drive FWD cars, but I bet they can drive them just as well/better than most of the people on this forum. Therefore they are reporting what to expect 'real world' drivers to achieve out of their 'hot/luke warm hatches'.

[auzvectra]

consiering they ran a 15.2 in the astra turbo, and i ran a 14.6 :), thats a very big difference, many variables but i spose.
but either way, i know u think the same jimee :p

[jimeegee]

I think their 0-100 times are ok, but usually a bit slower than Motor and certainly much slower than UK mags, but climate would be a factor. But their 1/4 mile times suggest they need to read a driving manual on how a gearbox works and needs to be operated by the driver before they select the next gear and continue accelerating. SLOW AS...

[blueraven]

if i recall correctly, all of their times are done with 2 people in the car, and with an accellerometer, whic also adds time compared to a xconventional 1/4 mile.

[auzvectra]

yeah some1 said that recenty too.
but i also killed the 0-100 time of 7.3, down th 6.8 ;), but i got good launches, no spin at all :).

[jimeegee]

Probably have a fair bit of fuel too...

[Shaun]

If you were to look it's actually the performance stats for all the cars. You may very well have seen a GTi beat a VXR, no one's doubting that... I would say it would come down to driver skill. The Golf has 147kW and weighs 1340kgs. The Astra has 176kW and weighs 1393kgs. Even if the GTi has the DSG auto (which makes slightly quicker apparently), it won't beat the VXR stock. I am a fan of all of these cars, but if we're to call a spade a spade, a stock GTi will not beat a stock VXR lol.

Well im going to wade in on this comment. I seen this run. GTI with DSG was pretty much even with the VXR. But in saying that a Manual Golf VS a VXR Would be a VXR win hands down i believe.

Both cars are good cars and have the advantages over one another.
But reading the article.

At the end of the day it comes down to this .You will buy what you want regardless of whats written in Wheels or Motor Magazine .

People buy a certain car because it appeals to them for one reason or another. Its simple as that and at the end of the day i dont care less what Either magazine have to say about any of the cars. Every Magazine has Praised the Golf GTi from the Outset. NOw something else has come out that the "flavor" of the month it will change. The MPS 3 got a rave review last time and now its reading alittle different.

[kabel]

Agree with your comments Shaun,buying a car is more an emotional decision rather than one based purely on cold hard facts and figures.
If we all just wanted a means of getting from A to B and the best value
for money in a new car package,well there are plenty of those to choose
from.Somone buying a BMW or Merc is not getting performance value for money but are purchasing based on what they want to drive or
the perceived quality of the brand,brand loyality or even badge snobbery,
WHO CARES JUST BE HAPPY THAT THE MANUFACTURER`S ARE GIVING US PLENTY OF CARS TO CHOOSE FROM THAT REALLY ALL MORE THAN DO WHAT WE EXPECT OF THEM.
Offtopic_There is also a review of the VXR in fast fours with the same rego plates as the one tested in Wheels.
Is this car owned privately or have HSV got a demo car regod as HSVVXR ?

Keep up the heathly debate it reminds me of all those years of benchracing over which brand had the best 70`s muscle car-no one won that arguement either!

[JasonGilholme]

Oh oh, here comes a controversial comment:

The Wheels journos may not be able to drive FWD cars, but I bet they can drive them just as well/better than most of the people on this forum. Therefore they are reporting what to expect 'real world' drivers to achieve out of their 'hot/luke warm hatches'.

Your such a shit stirrer jimmi :p

[Apex]

And here was I thinking that torque caused "torque steer"?

Torque steer is actually caused by unbalanced power/torque transferal, if a front wheel drive put equal power/torque to each front wheel it wouldn’t talk steer.

My 90kw/130nm Corolla Torque steers.:cool:

[rjastra]

oh, and we all know these guys CANNOT drive front wheel cars .
so ignore any torque steer comments, as it's mainly due to lack of driving skill with the cars.


Sure, of course they have no idea how to drive ...

Torque steer is bloody obvious if it is present. Tugging at the wheel and the inability for the car to maintain your desired direction without extra steering input.

Wheels (i think) does acceleration tests with 2 up and at least 1/2 tank of petrol. They do not flat shift either. They use uptodate timing equipment as well.

[Apex]

I agree Wheels magazine has been testing cars for well over 50 years, you’d think they know how to drive, and report an honest opinion on a vehicle.:)

Some cars a difficult to drive and get accurate times, I remember a Wheels article that put a Skyline GTR NurII up against a HSV GTS Coupe the GTR did its best quarter mile time (12.7) within half an hour were as the GTS took half a day to come up with its best.(13.9) both times were way off what the manufacturers claims.


Ps; I spelt Torque wrong at the end of the second sentence in my above post and was unable to edit it pleas forgive my poor literacy skills!:o

[GreyRex]

How's this to throw a spanner in the works. Honda has just confirmed the Civic Type R will be coming here... EXACTLY in UK spec. For me... this would be the one...

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/MiniSite/MiniSiteArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=36543&vf=28&MiniSiteID=4

[rusole21]

consiering they ran a 15.2 in the astra turbo, and i ran a 14.6 :), thats a very big difference, many variables but i spose.
but either way, i know u think the same jimee :p
haha i love how you say this!! it is acctually funny. not trying to be a jerk but its just funny.

i drove a mps3 last week and for those that think the electronically controlled lsd removes tourque steer are dum. it has crazy amount of power and is a blast to drive!! i love the thing!! but hate the clutch being completly devoid of feel!! also i didnt like the way it axel tramped down the road with a 1st to 2nd snap. also the tourque is big time limited in first. when cornering you can tell anyway. even with tc off

[Wraith]

Personally I don't know about the new Civic and others with atmo powerplants.......I'd prefer forced induction with these cars in this segment :rolleyes:

Forced induction = lots of torque, torque = lots of fun to drive, it's intoxicating and addictive :)

Also IMHO the new Civic and others like the Clio, look well, like a typical girls car :o sorry but just my opinion, would probably be liked by male hairdressers or the gay bridgagde - not that there's anything wrong with that......:rolleyes:

You could do worse, be seen in a smart car :D

[JasonGilholme]

I have to agree about that wraith.

Alot of the newer cars (civic and others inc) don't give off the feel that the cars from the 90's, and earlier, did. They don't look tough.

They go alright, but they're not tough. I find cars from the 90's more exciting to drive then the cars from this decade thats for sure.

[rjastra]

Alot of the newer cars (civic and others inc) don't give off the feel that the cars from the 90's, and earlier, did. They don't look tough.

And you reckon a mid 90's CRX looks tough?? :P

[JasonGilholme]

haha not stock lol.

One of the best chassis's from the era tho. ;)

[jimeegee]

[QUOTE=TTEETT;208900]Torque steer is actually caused by unbalanced power/torque transferal, if a front wheel drive put equal power/torque to each front wheel it wouldn’t talk steer.

Yeah, exactly. If the Megane can do it with only a little bit less power than the VXR, it proves how hopeless the Opel engineers really are. :(

As for the "hot 90s" cars...as the article says, let's not even go there...how hot were the Astras? Or the Mazda 323 SP20? Maybe you want a piece of Ford in the 90s? I doubt it...The only decent hot hatch in the 90s (in my opinion) was the Pulsar SSS 92-94. Very exciting car to drive. The rest got stuck in other countries and weren't delivered to Oz....

[blueraven]

mid 90's astra gsi, the 'f'or 'tr' model, rare here but its here i have seen some.

c20xe engine with 110kw from the factory in 1992. No other 2.0l could make that without a turbo. a high 14 second 1/4 and 0-100 in 7.2 seconds. and there was a relatively stock one at a track day iwent too, raised a few eyebrows with how well it handled let me tell you :)

[jimeegee]

Nice! Very similar specs to the SR20DE in the Pulsar 105kW, 178Nm, 0-100 about 7.7 sec (from my tests) and 15 flat 1/4. But still, they definetley weren't 'hot' to look at....for that I'd have to go for a Clio V6 or Golf R32, but of course they're newer and built this decade...

[Turblue]

I read the article today, and my impression is that they really did not find any of them to be an awesome car.

One thing is for sure, having experienced nasty torque steer, I am certainly not going to buy a car that inherently suffers from it. Not in the mood to sprain my wrist again.

[auzvectra]

i think the astra f gsi is actually quite hot, there was 1 for sale here not long ago (might still be) for only $6K also.
110kw, tuned strait to 125kw ;), what a weapon.
thats a V6 vectra less a few hundred kilo's!!!

[dieselhead]

i would like to see a diesel hatches comparo, then see how they go against those supercharged petrol hatches. or even better, see how a 888 Astra Coupe DTi would compete with the Ottos.
think about it: a sub $30,000 with cca $1,000 worth of mods would be close enough, performance wise, to a Golf GTI. in the process, it would save you over $10k and at least 35% in fuel bills...
sure, a diesel would never sound like a high revving petrol. but who cares when you get that intoxicating torque every time you take off at the lights? or how could you not smile when, in 4th, you jump so quick from 70 to 120km/h that you forget there are speed limits? and never care about fuel economy, because the difference between driving hard and driving like an old lady is just 1L/100km? and... :)
with Subaru launching their flat four TD soon a direct comparison between petrol and diesel hot hatches will become inevitable.

[dug74]

Well after reading it myself....and i own a MPS3...i would say personally the Golf GTi is the best ALL ROUNDER.

As for the torque steer...obviously driving the car very wrong...becoz the MPS3..has smart logics that prevent nearly all torque steer on takeoff.

I have driven all these cars and i wouldnt rate the VXR last....only on price maybe.

The XR5...a great car to look at and great sounding zorst notes....and it stops there.

The Megane....PASS

Power isnt everything, as said before...a bad takeoff or slight miss in gearing etc...can put any car off. You can test these cars all day and get different figures...depends on temp, road surface and the skills of the drivers.

I personally took the MPS3...not just for power, but also because it was a good everyday drive.

Half leather is better than full leather and i think it looks more sporty..better for QLD weather as well.

Oh....and the MPS is a fuel pig...but only till 1st service. When they give you an ECU upgrade.

MPS will drink fuel when you slam down the pedal....but everyday driving and it isnt much worse than other 4's.... DISI helps.

Each to their own...i wouldnt buy a car just becoz some ppl from a magazine have driven them a drive round a track. Drive them all yourself then pick which one suits your needs.

Cheers
DUG74

[auzvectra]

as doug said, but i dont beleive that full leather is that bad, especislly if u have aircon, which i rarely use.
my vectra with velour seats was alot more uncomfortable in the heat then my astra with the leather.

[Apex]

[quote=TTEETT;208900]Torque steer is actually caused by unbalanced power/torque transferal, if a front wheel drive put equal power/torque to each front wheel it wouldn’t talk steer.

Yeah, exactly. If the Megane can do it with only a little bit less power than the VXR, it proves how hopeless the Opel engineers really are. :(

As for the "hot 90s" cars...as the article says, let's not even go there...how hot were the Astras? Or the Mazda 323 SP20? Maybe you want a piece of Ford in the 90s? I doubt it...The only decent hot hatch in the 90s (in my opinion) was the Pulsar SSS 92-94. Very exciting car to drive. The rest got stuck in other countries and weren't delivered to Oz....

The Honda Civic VTi-R (b16a) was a dam fine car, and in my opinion is still a wicked looking car even today and will leave a SSS for dead defiantlymy my pick of the nineties. And in second place the Peugeot 306 GTI-6 or 306 s16 also very good cars to drive.:boohoo:

[pred8r]

Sorry guys, Renaults rule :) <-----My opinion

Ugly but HOT (whats that song (Ugly)'Lady in the day, Freak in the bed.")

(they probably just dont have stock :rolleyes: for a really good review)




Pity we dont get the Clio V6.....that would upset more than a few people (and their bank balances)

[Apex]

i would like to see a diesel hatches comparo, then see how they go against those supercharged petrol hatches. or even better, see how a 888 Astra Coupe DTi would compete with the Ottos.
think about it: a sub $30,000 with cca $1,000 worth of mods would be close enough, performance wise, to a Golf GTI. in the process, it would save you over $10k and at least 35% in fuel bills...
sure, a diesel would never sound like a high revving petrol. but who cares when you get that intoxicating torque every time you take off at the lights? or how could you not smile when, in 4th, you jump so quick from 70 to 120km/h that you forget there are speed limits? and never care about fuel economy, because the difference between driving hard and driving like an old lady is just 1L/100km? and... :)
with Subaru launching their flat four TD soon a direct comparison between petrol and diesel hot hatches will become inevitable.

They did a test on the Diesel hatches in NZ Autocar magazine, was quite good, the Astra was the winner as it went to 100kph in 8.1 seconds and was fun to drive, the Focus come second and was noted as having the best dynamics and steering, but the least power/torque and the 307 come in last as it was good all-rounder but was over priced.

[pred8r]

[quote=TTEETT;208900]
Yeah, exactly. If the Megane can do it with only a little bit less power than the VXR, it proves how hopeless the Opel engineers really are. :(

Opels Corsa C Sri ruled the sub $25k pricebracket for performance/economy until the end of its model run (or was that itsentire 5yr run)

Weve had this discussion before and IIRC the closest 2 were Polo Tdi (cheaper +slower) and Polo GTi (quicker but +$5k)


Opel did something right for a LONG time, pity Holden have their head screwed on backwards lately.

[dug74]

Actually OPEL are doing things right, have some of the fastest and best looking cars in europe...its just Australia is too small a market to be cost effective to bring them here.

OPC Vectra was the fastest sedan in europe for a few years...shame it had major torque steer and you could only drive in a straight line.

The Corsa D is an awesome looking car in both base and OPC models.

Just Holden want to make more profit and find that aussies dont car about quality...rather price.

Cheers
DUG74

[jimeegee]

I see decent strides from other companies (particularly VW) in making a better product. The new astra does nothing for me, but that's old news. You say Opel are doing things right, but fastest sedans are no use if they can't steer, you may as well be a ricer and have a twin turbo Soarer or something, you'll end up with the same result. Sure Opels are nice, but for their price. Certainly 'great value' next to BMWs and Audis, but not next to Mazdas and Hondas.

[auzvectra]

we all keep refering to the torque steer issue again, if u have power n just stand on the gas thru a corner it will understeer, this is all the idiots do!!!
the torque steer claims are crap!

[jimeegee]

In the OPC Vectra's case, it's not torque steer that is reported to be the problem, it's vague steering and a poor chassis balance among other things, but having never driven one (and never will), I have no opinion on the car other than the fact that I'd have a Honda Accord instead.

[auzvectra]

considering it will never get to us here in aus, most of us wont ever drive 1 :(.

[blueraven]

meh...


evo 10 ftw :D

[RudeOne]

meh...


evo 10 ftw :D

evo X will be my next ride :)

ooooh yeah

[rjastra]

c20xe engine with 110kw from the factory in 1992. No other 2.0l could make that without a turbo.

Ohh please.. don't make me laugh. Peugeot had a 116kw and 124kw 2L in the 1990s.
And I think you will find the 2L GSI we got here had only 100kw.

[Wraith]

evo X will be my next ride :)

ooooh yeah

You and me too ;)

Only just recently I've decided my next everyday ride will be the new Lan Evo Mk10 :)

It totally shadows all the hot hatches I'd been looking at with no real total liking to any of them.

It's always had the 'goods' and new model gets even better and now IMHO it finally looks great too, not just like a cheap boy racer (check out pic in latest Motor Mag) :) It should arrive late this year, early next year...

Next car 'proper' will be VE 2 door vert (hope they make them) I'm willing to wait beyond 2010 :)

[blueraven]

jesus i would hope the VE has been superceded by 2010!!

[Wraith]

Most probably won't be VE anymore VF, VG, ?? VE series 3, who knows ;)

But the coupe/vert will still look like those prototypes on Motor Mag :)

[auzvectra]

VG is taken already, the 1st of the comodore utes was a VG ;)

[JohnBu]

just read the review...

suprised the VXR and MPS3 had similar performance... which really blew the Golf and XR5 outta the water.. i.e. 1 sec slower to 100kmh and 400m.

6.5 & 14.5 respectively..... which really begs the questions, how much faster as is the flashed Astra G, because, the VXR doesn't feel as fast as mine...

i should take the Golf for a test drive, to see just how good it is...but i'm not really interested in one

but the MPS3 is damn fast on the roll from 3rd gear, i.e. faster than a Porsche from 80-120kmh...

[Vectracious]

i should take the Golf for a test drive, to see just how good it is...but i'm not really interested in one

Not for too long John, you may end up cutting hair... :p ;)

[dug74]

I guess holden will have to look for a new line of letters...


Y would be a good start..

Cheers
DUG74