Holden Epica online..

[cyclonic]

Hey guys,

Holden have put up a microsite for the Epica, the Korean-made Vectra replacement.

[CJB]

Link us :) :)

[cyclonic]

http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/epica/

There ya go!

[Red AH SRI T]

i think it should sell well.

Although it looks like a cheap BMW 5 Series

[CJB]

http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/epica/

There ya go!

Thank you :)


i think it should sell well.

Although it looks like a cheap BMW 5 Series
Hmmm... and the TK looks like poop on wheels... and look how well they sell. Anyone will buys sh1t at the right price.

Reminds me of an Aurion at the front, with the Barina grille, and very Viva-ry at the back with the tail lights. I dun like it.

[Red AH SRI T]

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/02/01/2change1_m_m.jpg
http://www.southgate.com.au/tk/TK_sunset_3door.jpg

Grille doesn't look very barina-ish and the only Aurion-ness i can really see is the bad stick on body kit, just like the Aurion Sportivo, although this looks less obvious.

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/02/01/2change2_m_m.jpg
http://www.editorial.discountnewcars.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/9B6B076FD6BEEC9FCA25717A0008474D/$file/Holden_Viva_Sedan_Rear.jpg

hmmm, not really the Viva-ry either


Crispy, what u on?

[Tfer]

Me thinks it will have zero prescence on the road.... typical south korean style.....

Big mistake coming up for Holden....

My 2 cents worth:)

[Red AH SRI T]

Hardly a big mistake. Look at it more closely

It has more features, cheaper price and better fuel economy than a camry.

Ignore the looks for a minute (eveyone that buys a camry does)

[Tfer]

Hardly a big mistake. Look at it more closely

It has more features, cheaper price and better fuel economy than a camry.

Ignore the looks for a minute (eveyone that buys a camry does)


Good point about the camry and the comparison... gets uglier and weirder each incarnation, but I cannot get past the lack of prescense... sorry :o

There is nothing in the Holden catalogue that I am interested in atm (i like the size i have, and therefore would not settle for the Astra, which would be the only car in the Holden range that would come close), so if i was to replace, would look at another breed completely.

I still think it is a big mistake... but hey... always prepared to eat my own words :)

[DirtyHarry]

me thinks holden is going down ford's past, of bringing unreliable cars to its name.

[DirtyHarry]

going by from the photos, and the web site, car looks terrible.
would like to see it on the road.

[oneightoo]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*

[Tfer]

me thinks holden is going down ford's past, of bringing unreliable cars to its name.

Yep i shall run with that :rolleyes:

[Tfer]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*

*ponders the perfect response* cbf :p

[dieselhead]

Holden gave us the "craptiva", why not a add a "crepica" now :D
seriously, it looks terrible... how would that compete against Toyota's Camry or even Hyundai's Sonata?! would sell well at Viva prices maybe.

[digifish]

I hate the Daewoldon Braina...although the interior design is very smart (not talking about quality, just design).

With this new Daewoldon has a nicer exterior and another nice (design) interior.

digifish

[ope126]

What is the price point for the CDXi?

[auzvectra]

any1 notice the power levels???
2.5L onlt 115kw!!!
vectra 2.5L 125kw and 250nm
it didnt even reach the 200nm mark.

[Shaun]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*

I back you there too Matt. I think it looks good. cant go wrong with that if the price is right.

Shaun

[digifish]

I back you there too Matt. I think it looks good. cant go wrong with that if the price is right.

Shaun

I agree...interesting to see how it looks in the flesh, picks suggest it's certainly a step up from the Viva and Barina.

digifish

[jerrypufflewell]

Don't mind the CDXi, but the CDX I just don't understand the look of it. Also the alloys don't seem to fit in...

Interior looks ok though ( But remember I drive a TR City :p )

[Ishley]

i think it should sell well.

Although it looks like a cheap BMW 5 Series

We saw it at the Motor Show tonight. Very extra ordinary on the inside. Not really that impressive on the outside wither..... The wheels are just too small for the CDXi. Going from the Opel Vectra to the Daewoo Epica, it is a rather large let down. And considering there are only two variants to choose from, it limits the market.

Blackey, Crispin said it has very Aurion headlights, the front grill is just a larger TK Barina sedan grill with a bit of chrome. And the rear looks like the Viva hatch, but in a sedan form.

[Poogene2001]

Im not sure where all these camry/aurion comparisons came from... I couldn't find the specs in relation to the size of the Epica, but it looks clearly smaller than the toyotas. Not to menion the power differences... 2.0 in epica = 105kw/195nm vs 2.0 in camry = 117kw/218nm. Even worse when u compare the V6 diffrences 115kw/237nm vs 200kw/336nm... Not much competition there.
I have a feeling it will be a Viva-like performance for this mid-size entry.

[ope126]

Because the engine is a straight six, is it RWD?

[Bill_G]

Holden have put up a microsite for the Epica, the Korean-made Vectra replacement.What a pity that GM couldn't have shown Vectra owners the same courtesy. I for one will never buy a Korean-made vehicle, regardless of its price, and once they're out of warranty, I can just imagine how hard it's going to be to keep them on the road (tried buying any JR Vectra parts from GM lately?). :mad:

[jerrypufflewell]

We saw it at the Motor Show tonight. Very extra ordinary on the inside. Not really that impressive on the outside wither..... The wheels are just too small for the CDXi. Going from the Opel Vectra to the Daewoo Epica, it is a rather large let down. And considering there are only two variants to choose from, it limits the market.

Blackey, Crispin said it has very Aurion headlights, the front grill is just a larger TK Barina sedan grill with a bit of chrome. And the rear looks like the Viva hatch, but in a sedan form.

Yeah a bit abstract but I saw what Crispy meant :)

[Red AH SRI T]

me thinks holden is going down ford's past, of bringing unreliable cars to its name.

What proof do u have that these cars are unreliable?


Holden gave us the "craptiva",


Crap hardly defines Captiva.
Crap it certainly is not!

and to top it off Holden has a 3 month waiting list!

[platypus]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*i like it... maybe i'm becoming an old man?

i'd happily potter round in one of these, BUT i honestly can't say i'm overly keen on buying GM again after the astras issues!!

[platypus]

What a pity that GM couldn't have shown Vectra owners the same courtesy. I for one will never buy a Korean-made vehicle, regardless of its price, and once they're out of warranty, I can just imagine how hard it's going to be to keep them on the road (tried buying any JR Vectra parts from GM lately?). :mad:

whats korea got to do with that?
tried buying kia/hyundai parts lately? piece of piss, to get old parts going back to their introduction to australia... they are both from korea so must fit your stereotype right?

[cyclonic]

It'll sell, partially because its going to be priced very keenly against the Camry. That's something Holden couldn't do with the Vectra without destroying profit per vehicle and the Vectra's upmarket image.

I'm not a fan of its looks - its far too generic for me, but you'll see some changes in the next generation of it. The interior is ok, though my gripe would be with plastics and quality.

However, for the die-hards, you're just going to have to grin and bear it. Holden needs to make a profit so this is how its going.

[Wraith]

Hardly a big mistake. Look at it more closely

It has more features, cheaper price and better fuel economy than a camry.

Ignore the looks for a minute (eveyone that buys a camry does)

Very true, look at the Viva, we here (car buffs) would probably want nothing to do with one, yet it's become a huge seller for Holden, the average person out there looks for all those things mentioned above when purchasing a car.

I think they'll do well and as I've mentioned before, we need to get used to the upcoming Holden Daewoo's, GM global are not gonna change their plans of using the massive Korean manufacturing plants and cheaper labour resources to fill up most of there core range

[Bill_G]

whats korea got to do with that?I never suggested that it did. My complaint is with GM.


tried buying kia/hyundai parts lately?Nope, but then neither have I tried buying any SsangYong or Daewoo parts, and until such time as my opinion of Korean build quality improves, that's unlikely to change.


piece of piss, to get old parts going back to their introduction to australia... they are both from korea so must fit your stereotype right?That's not what I suggested at all. The vehicles' countries of origin are irrelevant. It's the inability of GM to supply parts for Vectras that concerns me more than anything else.

[platypus]

I for one will never buy a Korean-made vehicle, regardless of its price, and once they're out of warranty...
right..

That's not what I suggested at all. The vehicles' countries of origin are irrelevant.It's the inability of GM to supply parts for Vectras that concerns me more than anything else.so the point here is?

but i do agree with the GM supply part... they are atrocious, comparing to ford, mazda, toyota and honda...
hyundai i've never had a drama with, kia are good except some stuff with the mazda engines (as were hyundai with their turbo engines)

mitsubishi i found were useless, but i put that down to the local stealership

[Bill_G]

right.. so the point here is?I'd have thought that was fairly obvious. I've already stated twice now that when it comes to maintaining a decent supply of spares for anything older than 3 or 4 years, GM have dropped the ball big time. I'm just about sick to death of being told by Motorama Holden that certain spare parts for our 3 x V6 Vectras are NLA, especially as I was under the impression that manufacturers were supposed to keep spares for a minimum of 10 years following cessation of a specific model's release. This has clearly not been the case with Vectra spare parts. Which is exactly what I said in my first post. Mercedes, on the other hand, have always gone out of their way to source hard-to-get spare parts, and in one case, even had a local engineering workshop manufacture for me a one-off air-con bracket which had broken, and couldn't be sourced locally. Furthermore, they didn't even charge me for it. Can't see that happening at a Ford or GM dealership any time soon; can you?


but i do agree with the GM supply part... they are atrocious, comparing to ford, mazda, toyota and honda...I can only comment on those cars which I've specifically owned over the last 40 years, and they have all been either GM, Ford, or Mercedes. Unfortunately, in my experience, both GM and Ford have been unable to supply specific parts which were required for cars which were no more than 5 years old, and that's atrocious backup by any standards.


hyundai i've never had a drama with, kia are good except some stuff with the mazda engines (as were hyundai with their turbo engines)Being an electronics engineer, I've had a great deal to do with products from Daewoo and Hyundai over the years, and it is quite obvious to me that their electronics products are still sub-standard when compared with their Japanese or European counterparts, and they have given me no reason to assume that their cars are any better. In fact, you only need to closely inspect the panel fitment on most Korean vehicles to see that they're not.

[MatsHolden]

Being an electronics engineer, I've had a great deal to do with products from Daewoo and Hyundai over the years, and it is quite obvious to me that their electronics products are still sub-standard when compared with their Japanese or European counterparts, and they have given me no reason to assume that their cars are any better. In fact, you only need to closely inspect the panel fitment on most Korean vehicles to see that they're not.

I'm not sure what electronics in the vehicles has to do with panel fitment? And on the panel fitment side of things, looking at the panel gaps on a Viva for example, they are smaller than those on TS Astras and XC Barinas.

[Bill_G]

I'm not sure what electronics in the vehicles has to do with panel fitment?Are you being intentionally obtuse, or were you simply born that way?

[Mainframe_Module]

doesnt look too bad inside, and i like the shape of the headlights....but i cant say it does much for me style wise..... :\

[MatsHolden]

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or were you simply born that way?

lol relax.

[GreyRex]

Wow this has created a bit of debate... haha!! After driving and viewing the Epica last year at Lang Lang all i can say is... its definately not for me lol. It looks okISH from the outside. Inside didn't really like. But then again, im just not a fan of this whole Daewoo/GM thing. Rode smoothly (floated), but was so quiet. Anyway, as we've seen, it'll be enough to sell. We know Holden's not an upmarket brand, so we've got to accept these cars for what they are unfortunately

[Tfer]

Wow this has created a bit of debate... haha!! After driving and viewing the Epica last year at Lang Lang all i can say is... its definately not for me lol. It looks okISH from the outside. Inside didn't really like. But then again, im just not a fan of this whole Daewoo/GM thing. Rode smoothly (floated), but was so quiet. Anyway, as we've seen, it'll be enough to sell. We know Holden's not an upmarket brand, so we've got to accept these cars for what they are unfortunately

I would agree with that..... hello Astra Twintop :D

[Bill_G]

lol relax.Don't sweat it, Mat. I couldn't be more laid back if I tried. ;)

[CJB]

some pics from the motor show ash took...

http://i15.tinypic.com/2mhg1ec.jpg

http://i18.tinypic.com/4ccdeuf.jpg

http://i15.tinypic.com/2n8pzba.jpg

[Tfer]

It looks uglier than I previously thought.............arghhhh :eek:

Damn.... and really wide tyres as well :rolleyes:

And really nice short overhangs as well :p

Ah yes.... this has to be the car for me................... NOT! :eek:

[Misguidedangel]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*

I'm agreeing with matt... Must be a sydney thing

I wouldn't buy one.. but I dont mind it... considering how the Barina looks and the viva the Epica is definatly a step up...

[CJB]

I wouldnt buy one either, but, it's not bad! Better in the flesh.

[dug74]

I never suggested that it did. My complaint is with GM.

Nope, but then neither have I tried buying any SsangYong or Daewoo parts, and until such time as my opinion of Korean build quality improves, that's unlikely to change.

Well Kia are korean and are one the best selling car companies globally...and they have 30% of the euro market...so i think it really depends on which car maker...not where they are from.

Remember...mercs and porsche are **MADE IN CHINA**


Cheers
DUG74

[RudeOne]

Well Kia are korean and are one the best selling car companies globally...and they have 30% of the euro market...so i think it really depends on which car maker...not where they are from.

Remember...mercs and porsche are **MADE IN CHINA**


Cheers
DUG74

So are BMW, etc etc - but only for the chinese market these are not for export to australia - they do this because of high import taxes into china

[Tfer]

So are BMW, etc etc - but only for the chinese market these are not for export to australia - they do this because of high import taxes into china

Good point Rudi..... i have just learnt something :D

[platypus]

but back on that point, half of these cars are made in other countries... for example mercedes has a lot of stuff made in china, made in india as well as thailand... from there these parts are exported to be assembled in germany..

presto you now have a german manufactured car....

india has won numerous awards within mercedes corp for their wiring looms, thats the main product from india! (hey in a modern car thats almost more important than the chassis, what with fly by wire etc!!

[xplosv57]

Sorry to revive an old thread but i spotted a new Epica parked on the road today (at my hairdresser actually lol)!! The badges and stff were all taped up but from what could tell, the car looks like a Vectra size wise, but thats about it!! The design looks very outdated and cheap, especially when the ZC Vectra was such a big design improvement, the new Epica is nothing special!!

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/xplosv57/28-02-07_1826.jpg

[oneightoo]

and the rims are way to small

[xplosv57]

Plus looks like its got a lift kit in it compared to the euro Vectra!!! Off road capabilities maybe?? hehehe

[oneightoo]

lol

holden epica, for all your roo shootin needs..

[xplosv57]

lol

holden epica, for all your roo shootin needs..

Hahaha thats funny as!!! Wonder if a bullbar and winch are available as options?? Can't see country folk trading a V8 ute or a tough Landcruiser for one of these though!!!

[Apex]

Is Ausi getting the new Ford Mondeo?

I.M.H.O the Epica looks like an absolute pile of Korean poo that should only be sold as a fleet vehicle to company’s that sell Toilet paper and the like.:mad:

[Red AH SRI T]

lol

holden epica, for all your roo shootin needs..

No no no no NO!


It needs to fit in with Holden's now "GO" marketing startegy!


Epica Go Roo shootin

[Ishley]

lol

holden epica, for all your roo shootin needs..
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D


No no no no NO!


It needs to fit in with Holden's now "GO" marketing startegy!


Epica Go Roo shootin
You can tell Holdens ad with Dave Hughes "Holden means a great deal to Australia" campaign is over ;)

[Red AH SRI T]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D


You can tell Holdens ad with Dave Hughes "Holden means a great deal to Australia" campaign is over ;)

That's Old news


its all "GO" now. Kinda like "ZOOM ZOOM"

[Ishley]

That's Old news


its all "GO" now. Kinda like "ZOOM ZOOM"
You cant half tell with the half baked Korean's they are bringing in.... lol

[jerrypufflewell]

Hahaha thats funny as!!! Wonder if a bullbar and winch are available as options?? Can't see country folk trading a V8 ute or a tough Landcruiser for one of these though!!!

Need somewhere to stand too... Shooting out the window just limits your firing angle :p
Running boards maybe?

Nah Hilux's the go ;)

[Shaun]

Well Kia are korean and are one the best selling car companies globally...and they have 30% of the euro market...so i think it really depends on which car maker...not where they are from.

Remember...mercs and porsche are **MADE IN CHINA**


Cheers
DUG74


Which Mercedes Benz are you refereing to Made in China ???

MB100 / MB 140 Vans.were made in Koreia by Mussio.

Have yet to come across a Benz made in China in my 4 years of Working For Daimler Chrysler.

[vectra_zc]

i think it looks good actually......


*waits to be flamed*

I think it potentially looks quite good. Though it really depends on the pic. Some pics depict a sleek looking car, others reveal an out of proportion vehicle which you would expect from cheaper manufacturers. Hard to tell without seeing it on the road in full CDXi kit. I did notice the similarity to the Suzuki SX4, the headlights look very similar.
Buts lets face it, Holden is just trying to fill all the gaps at the right prices. It all comes down to what audience you target and the price. Bringing across the new Chev Camaro which could be labelled the next Monaro, does that change the situation? No. What about if Holden imported an Opel GT roadster convertible? Does that really make the Holden brand any better? We all know they are imports. Did you know, the most popular car of all time is the Toyota Corolla? Is it affordable and economical? Yes. Is it reliable? Yes. So as long as Epica hits the same sort of spots, it should sell okay. Is the Corolla the best? No but it sells well.
I think what you will find with Epica [don't like the name], it will appeal to people who aren't concerned about sportscar performance but want interior and safety features at a good price as well as good economy. There aren't too many cars I know of in the mid 20k to low 30K with the size or level of features of this car. You can have leather for 33k in a midsized car, with all the airbags you want :-)

2007 Holden Epica pricing:
Epica CDX 2.0 - $25,990
Epica CDX 2.5 (a) - $27,990
Epica CDXi 2.5 (a) - $30,990

Now the problem with the ZC Vectra, was the price. The CDXi is a very nice car but it was priced against the Commodore. With the VE in showrooms now, it was never going to work. Holden will continue to work around Commodore sales. There was a lesson there, a tough one considering what the Vectra actually did offer. Two years ago, it was a superior car in many ways to all other cars in the class. Honda Accord Euro reaped all the rewards with a similar configuration but it was miles behind in terms of performance. The Vectra has a great v6 engine with a very smooth gearbox with some nice creature features. Few cars come near it as an over all package. Once again though, an Accord buyer probably doesn't want performance. If they wanted performance in that price range they would have bought a WRX, an SV8 or XR6T.

[ronj]

What proof do u have that these cars are unreliable?




Crap hardly defines Captiva.
Crap it certainly is not!

and to top it off Holden has a 3 month waiting list!

Read the latest NRMA report the Captiva came in last compared to other "soft' roaders

[Red AH SRI T]

NRMA knows nothing. They are an insurance and roadside assistance company.


I have a new name for the Epica.



Holden Nannyca

[Tfer]

I think it potentially looks quite good. Though it really depends on the pic. Some pics depict a sleek looking car, others reveal an out of proportion vehicle which you would expect from cheaper manufacturers. Hard to tell without seeing it on the road in full CDXi kit. I did notice the similarity to the Suzuki SX4, the headlights look very similar.
Buts lets face it, Holden is just trying to fill all the gaps at the right prices. It all comes down to what audience you target and the price. Bringing across the new Chev Camaro which could be labelled the next Monaro, does that change the situation? No. What about if Holden imported an Opel GT roadster convertible? Does that really make the Holden brand any better? We all know they are imports. Did you know, the most popular car of all time is the Toyota Corolla? Is it affordable and economical? Yes. Is it reliable? Yes. So as long as Epica hits the same sort of spots, it should sell okay. Is the Corolla the best? No but it sells well.
I think what you will find with Epica [don't like the name], it will appeal to people who aren't concerned about sportscar performance but want interior and safety features at a good price as well as good economy. There aren't too many cars I know of in the mid 20k to low 30K with the size or level of features of this car. You can have leather for 33k in a midsized car, with all the airbags you want :-)

2007 Holden Epica pricing:
Epica CDX 2.0 - $25,990
Epica CDX 2.5 (a) - $27,990
Epica CDXi 2.5 (a) - $30,990

Now the problem with the ZC Vectra, was the price. The CDXi is a very nice car but it was priced against the Commodore. With the VE in showrooms now, it was never going to work. Holden will continue to work around Commodore sales. There was a lesson there, a tough one considering what the Vectra actually did offer. Two years ago, it was a superior car in many ways to all other cars in the class. Honda Accord Euro reaped all the rewards with a similar configuration but it was miles behind in terms of performance. The Vectra has a great v6 engine with a very smooth gearbox with some nice creature features. Few cars come near it as an over all package. Once again though, an Accord buyer probably doesn't want performance. If they wanted performance in that price range they would have bought a WRX, an SV8 or XR6T.


Vectra_ZC.... mate, all very valid points and I respect your opinion, but still the thing, in my mind, is a cold piece of turd :rolleyes: could be just the thing to replace all those cardigan cars that are required by some of our "retirees" who choose the white good appliance car....


Read the latest NRMA report the Captiva came in last compared to other "soft' roaders

What else would you have seriously expected :rolleyes: I mean come.... dish up crap and it will get rated as such :rolleyes:

[Tfer]

NRMA knows nothing. They are an insurance and roadside assistance company.


I have a new name for the Epica.



Holden Nannyca

That's true about NRMA, and chuck in the RACV and the RACQ whilst you are at it..... but they all issue publications, and the trouble is, people actually read them and take notice of them (mine goes straight into the recycling bin every time). ;)

Nannyca..... the car for nanny's to drive around in..... :rolleyes:

[xplosv57]

Got to see the car up close today at the Motor Show, in my opinion a really bad and disappointing replacement to the Vectra, no matter how much cheaper it is!! I had a good look at the top of the range CDXi and its such a basic car, no features or looks of an upmarket or top of range car!!! Felt like a cheap base model with leather seats!! And the engine is only like 115kW or something haha what a joke!! Sorry but id rather spend my money on a used Vectra CDXi than a new Epica CDXi!!!

P.S. Nannyca hahahaha has a better ring to it than Epica does!!

[dug74]

Which Mercedes Benz are you refereing to Made in China ???

MB100 / MB 140 Vans.were made in Koreia by Mussio.

Have yet to come across a Benz made in China in my 4 years of Working For Daimler Chrysler.

Well obviously they kept you in the dark...

List of Mercs Made in China..

E200 Kompressor
E 280
E 350

Cheers
DUG74

[Red AH SRI T]

I've go it!

Holden Nannyca Go Peacefully

[vectra_zc]

Vectra_ZC.... mate, all very valid points and I respect your opinion, but still the thing, in my mind, is a cold piece of turd :rolleyes: could be just the thing to replace all those cardigan cars that are required by some of our "retirees" who choose the white good appliance car....

What else would you have seriously expected :rolleyes: I mean come.... dish up crap and it will get rated as such :rolleyes:

Actually, if you read the reviews, many reviewers rated the Vectra as good car with a strong 3.5-4 rating @ 40K. In the most part, the only thing anyone could pick on was some indicator design frustration. Engine and gears where the strong points. The interior could be nicer but then again have you seen the plastic interior in the Lexus RX300 - worst fake woodgrain you can find, in a 70k car...........???

I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion that it was crap? The only car, in that range or class I would put ahead of the Vectra, is the Subaru Liberty - not that they were direct competitors anyway.