Wheels: Astra SRi Turbo Hatch. (TBC)

[Shaun]

Just reading January 07 wheels i bought last night and in the price list for the astra in in the back of the Magazine i found something interesting.

Right at the bottom of the list i seen

SRi Turbo Hatch with in the price list. Could it be Holden is going all out with the AH in now.

Be interested to see. Also see the Twin Top is listed too with Pricing. When are they on sale ?


Shaun

[imay]

Also see the Twin Top is listed too with Pricing. When are they on sale ?


Shaun

Was released at the Sydney Motor Show in October, to be released to the public in November . . . no, wait, December . . . ummm, make that early January '07, maybe later in the year, but definitely before summer ends, probably, unless they can't get it ready in time, then it will possibly be in March, or April . . .

To be continued . . .

[MatsHolden]

SRi Turbo Hatch with in the price list. Could it be Holden is going all out with the AH in now.
Shaun

Are you sure Wheels just doesn't refer to the Coupe SRi Turbo as a hatch? But yeh Holden is going all out with the AH now. With the 2.2 NA SRi Coupe and 5 door hatch and the Twin Top added to the range.

[Red AH SRI T]

Was released at the Sydney Motor Show in October, to be released to the public in November . . . no, wait, December . . . ummm, make that early January '07, maybe later in the year, but definitely before summer ends, probably, unless they can't get it ready in time, then it will possibly be in March, or April . . .

To be continued . . .


First TwinTops were due at our PD department today. I'll check when i gopt to work later. Next lot arrives first week January

[SSS_Hoon]

i thought they were a hatch now?

what is the difference between the 2?


SSS_Hoon

[Shaun]

No im sure. They have the Coupe Listed above Matt. go and look for your selves. I may im not refering to the 2.2 SRi That have come out. Im refering to a SRi Turbo Hatch. Hatch in the AH is a 5 Door . Coupe is a 3 door.

[Red AH SRI T]

i looked at my copy of wheels and Shaun is right, however I haven't heard anything of it, but if it is true then that's great news!~

[digifish]

I think this is a sign that Holden has realised that the large family car is heading for niche status.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some parts for the Astra (or it's relacement) built in Australia....or indeed the whole car in kit form.

digifish

[DirtyHarry]

umm isnt a "coupe" a 2 door car with the boot being in the form of a sedan?

and the current turbo are all hatches (ie 3 door hatches)

[Shaun]

I think this is a sign that Holden has realised that the large family car is heading for niche status.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some parts for the Astra (or it's relacement) built in Australia....or indeed the whole car in kit form.

digifish

To costly to do that. Its Cheaper to import them as CBU . Once you build a factory then man it and tool it its in the millions.

[Shaun]

umm isnt a "coupe" a 2 door car with the boot being in the form of a sedan?

and the current turbo are all hatches (ie 3 door hatches)

Thats normally correct but Opel Vauxhall and Holden have called the Hatch a Coupe... Dont know the reasoning behind it but the VXR is classed as a Hot Hatch but the same basic body as a Coupe.

[digifish]

To costly to do that. Its Cheaper to import them as CBU . Once you build a factory then man it and tool it its in the millions.

I am aware of that, but they already have the factory infrastructure...and didn't they just spend 100's of millions retooling for the new Commodore?

You may expect to see something in Knock-down kit or just engines etc first.

Long-term they need to refocus on a different market segment or die.

digifish.

[MatsHolden]

umm isnt a "coupe" a 2 door car with the boot being in the form of a sedan?

and the current turbo are all hatches (ie 3 door hatches)

That is one interpretation of it but it is not set in concrete. Also a Coupe doesn't necessarily have to have 2 doors. There are 4 door Coupes. The reason they call the Astra a Coupe is due to it's aggressive tapering off at the rear. It isn't simply a 3 Door hatch as for example a Barina is. The Barina 3 door hatch is exactly the same as the 5 door but with 2 less doors. The Astra Coupe '3 door' has completely different styling to the Astra 5 door, not just 2 less doors. The design team at Opel wanted to blur the line between what is a traditional hatch anad what is a Coupe.

[MatsHolden]

I am aware of that, but they already have the factory infrastructure...and didn't they just spend 100's of millions retooling for the new Commodore?

You may expect to see something in Knock-down kit or just engines etc first.

Long-term they need to refocus on a different market segment or die.

digifish.

Holden havn't got the capacity to build Astras along side the Commodore. A lot of tooling in Automotive manufacturing is unique to the one model so what they have existing for the VE Commodore can only be used for VE Commodore. Part of the reason the Monaro was dropped and also the crewman is due to the fact Holden doesn't have the capacity to build so many variants. Holden have built Opels in Australia before in the Vectra. They spent millions on all the tooling for manufacturing of the Vectra only for it to last less then 12 months so them doing so again is very unlikely.

[SSS_Hoon]

and they have to retool it all again so the ve fits into the v8 supercar guidelines as it stands now it not legal.

and also they are tring to work out a police packagae as the current ones will not work.


SSS_Hoon

[MatsHolden]

and they have to retool it all again so the ve fits into the v8 supercar guidelines as it stands now it not legal.
SSS_Hoon

The specifications that the VE V8 Supercar has to abide by has no effect on the road going vehicle. The V8 Supercar VE's will be smaller than the road going VE's. The modified body for V8 Supercar is completely seperate to road going operations. I think it is stupid though, having the VE V8 Supercar not resembling the road going car.

[EL BURITO]

Thats normally correct but Opel Vauxhall and Holden have called the Hatch a Coupe... Dont know the reasoning behind it but the VXR is classed as a Hot Hatch but the same basic body as a Coupe.
i was under the impression it is sold as a sports hatch and its just Holden going of on there own designation for the body shape

[digifish]

Speaking of turbo astras, here's the last model with a slighly bigger turbo...

http://www.lucchesiturbo.com.br/videos/lucchesiturbo.com.br_astra202.avi

...may take a while to load.

digifish

[digifish]

I think it is stupid though, having the VE V8 Supercar not resembling the road going car.

What on earth are you talking about...there's nothing about a V8 supercar (apart from perhaps a dashboard?) and some body panels that are the same as the road car.

Engine, transmission, electrics, interior, ECU, suspension, brakes, tyres, diff, tyres, rims, stud-pattern, axels, exhaust...it's all has nothing to do with a roadgoing V8.

digifish

[Shaun]

The cost of producing an Astra Here for the market share isnt worth it to GM. GM new plan is The Large Cars on Zeta Platform will be made here. Sall cars will be made in Korea and Med Cars will come out of Europe.

GM now will use the the Basis of the VE to Make up different models for the GM Brands.

For Holden to Produce the Astra it would need to be done in a different Building to where the VE is. The tooling used in the VE plant is programed and designed to suit the VE.

Opel have many Plants round Europe. Each plant produces one Model.

[Red AH SRI T]

Part of the reason the Monaro was dropped and also the crewman is due to the fact Holden doesn't have the capacity to build so many variants.

The Crewman is still being built.

It was the Monaro and One Tonner that was dropped :)

[DirtyHarry]

opel did build a proper "coupe" in the form of the astra g. as far as im concered a coupe is strickly a 2 door with a sedan boot.

[MK]

i have to agree with DirtyHarry, coupe means a two door car with sedan type boot...

[MatsHolden]

The Crewman is still being built.

It was the Monaro and One Tonner that was dropped :)

Didn't they drop drop the Crewman Cross 8 too?

[MatsHolden]

What on earth are you talking about...there's nothing about a V8 supercar (apart from perhaps a dashboard?) and some body panels that are the same as the road car.

Engine, transmission, electrics, interior, ECU, suspension, brakes, tyres, diff, tyres, rims, stud-pattern, axels, exhaust...it's all has nothing to do with a roadgoing V8.

digifish

Mate, I said resembling (looks like). That's what i'm talking about. I know the V8 Supercar Commodores and Falcons only thing they have in common with their road going variants is the body shape. What I was saying is that it is stupid that they don't even have that link any more... The VE is the first Commodore used in the V8 Supercar series that has actually had it's overall size changed.

[MatsHolden]

opel did build a proper "coupe" in the form of the astra g. as far as im concered a coupe is strickly a 2 door with a sedan boot.

As I said before, there is no set rule of what a Coupe is. Can mean the form of a 2 door plus boot, or refer to the styling. I personally believe it's both. As there isn't a rule as such people have different oppinions. So what you believe is fine and what others belive is fine too.

[SSS_Hoon]

Mate, I said resembling (looks like). That's what i'm talking about. I know the V8 Supercar Commodores and Falcons only thing they have in common with their road going variants is the body shape. What I was saying is that it is stupid that they don't even have that link any more... The VE is the first Commodore used in the V8 Supercar series that has actually had it's overall size changed.


i had something similar to that with the reasoning behind it but deleted as it wasnt worth it.

a v8 supercar is a road going car in the first place except that change and take alot of it out.

if u get a supercar and pull all the race stuff out and put the stock stuff back in it will be a street going legal car.

where the new ve commonwhore would not as the entire floorplan, width track and length have been changed.


and they also have to build a special set of cars just so they can be used as cop cars as they cannot handle it all, similar o the ba's they will no longer be used as highway patrol cars either as they stall under hard u turns.


SSS_Hoon

[digifish]

...a v8 supercar is a road going car in the first place except that change and take alot of it out.

if u get a supercar and pull all the race stuff out and put the stock stuff back in it will be a street going legal car.

What you end up with is a body shell. The fact remains that the V8 supercar shares nothing with the street version that matters...since the body shell itself is given several 1000% extra stiffness by the addition of a roll-cage. The fact a Commodore or Falcon shaped car wins a race means nothing to the road going variant. Who cares if the body shell now isn't the same. It makes no difference.

from wikipedia...

The regulations are designed to balance the desire for technical competition and fast vehicles with the requirement that costs are kept reasonable. Racing is close, and the cars bear some resemblance to production models. The recent application of "Project Blueprint" - introduced at the beginning of the 2003 season (where both makes of car were examined to ensure parity) the racing between Holden and Ford has become closer than ever (reducing the risk of a one make dominated series).

Power: A V8 supercar is powered by either a 5.0 L Ford "Windsor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Windsor_engine)" SVO or Chevrolet Aurora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Northstar_engine#L47) race engine (depending on the make) which produces 620-650+ bhp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower). Engines have pushrod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrod) actuated valves and electronic fuel injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_fuel_injection). Both Ford and Holden engines are based on racing engines from their respective US parent companies. Engines are electronically restricted to 7,500 rpm.
Weight: The minimum category weight is 1,355 kg (not including driver) 80 kg driver allocation.
Cost: Reported to be approximately $AU 600,000 per car and $AU 130,000 per engine. Teams spend up to $10 million per year running their two car teams.
Bodyshell: Each V8 Supercar is based on either Commodore or Falcon production bodyshells, with an elaborate roll cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_cage) constructed into the shell from aircraft grade materials. Other modifications include wider wheel arches.
Some common components: differentials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_%28mechanics%29) and gearboxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearbox) are identical in all cars in the category. The category uses 6 speed Holinger gearboxes (Australian made), in the familiar 'H' pattern. Differential ratios used throughout the season are 1:3.75, 1:3.5, 1:3.25 and 1:3.15. The 1:3.15 ratio differential was introduced in 2005 to be used at Bathurst - cars with this ratio now reach over 300 km/h (hypothetically, this has yet to be proven, but Jack Daniel's Racing/Perkins Motorsport claims to have exceeded this speed multiple times in the 2005 event) on Conrod straight. With a maximum speed of 306 km/h. All cars have a 120 L fuel tank.
Suspension: Basic front suspension configuration is double wishbone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_wishbone_suspension) (made compulsory for both makes through Project Blueprint), whilst rear suspension is a "live axle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_axle)" design. Spring and damper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_absorber) design is unrestricted.
Tyres: A Dunlop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunlop_Tyres) "control tyre" is supplied to all teams. During the year, there are large restrictions on the number of testing days (6 a year), along with the number of tyres used during those days. During race meetings, teams are allocated a set number of tyres for the entire weekend.
Aerodynamics: A standard "aerodynamic package" of spoilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_%28automotive%29) and wings is supplied to the teams of each make. Testing is conducted so the two makes have as similar aerodynamic characteristics as possible.

[Tfer]

Well at least they are still keeping some of the Holden range from Europe, and not South Korea :D

[MatsHolden]

What you end up with is a body shell. The fact remains that the V8 supercar shares nothing with the street version that matters...since the body shell itself is given several 1000% extra stiffness by the addition of a roll-cage. The fact a Commodore or Falcon shaped car wins a race means nothing to the road going variant. Who cares if the body shell now isn't the same. It makes no difference.



Missed my point. Current VZ and BA based V8 Supercars could have MOST panels interchanged with those off a road going VZ or BA, such as a door, bonnet, boot, headlight etc. They would fit. However with the VE, they have to make the V8 Supercar VE pretty much the size of the VZ Commodore that it replaces. So panels/doors/ etc will be different sizes to what the actual VE Commodore has. They SHOULD be able to just keep the dimensions identical. But the controversial Project Blueprint rules prevent it, of course until Ford releases a complete new Falcon then Holden will more than likely be able to use the ACTUAL dimensions.

The body shell does make a difference, as this is the only thing that allows manufacturers to put their name with the car. When you don't even have that anymore then can they really still refer to it as a 'Holden Commodore'.

And how off topic have we gone! ha! back onto the original topic... WHEELS SRI TURBO HATCH (NOT COUPE) LISTED

[bill142]

It's simply a marketing tactic. Coupe sounds better then hatch dosn't it? But it is in fact a hatch. It dosn't even look like a proper coupe. Look at the Astra G coupe and 3 door hatch and what does the AH 'coupe' resemble more?

[rjastra]

There are 4 door Coupes

Name one....

[Shaun]

Name one....

Mazda RX8 has four doors but is it a coupe?

[MatsHolden]

Name one....

Quite happily name one.... Mercedes CLS class. I'll even give you a photo.

Quote from Mercedes Benz's website on the CLS...
"The CLS 350. Resistance is futile. It's not just the beautiful and stylish exterior that gives this exclusive coupé its magnetic appeal."

http://www.pamrent.com/images/mercedes-benz-cls500-house.jpg

[imay]

Coming into this discussion a bit late, I know, but isn't the original concept/description of COUPE used to cover vehicles with frameless glass in the doors (no matter how many doors it has)? e.g. the Astra G Coupe has the same doors as the convertible, i.e. no steel frame around the window glass, unlike the 3 door hatch, which DOES have a steel frame around the glass.
Hence the above Mercedes does fall into the category COUPE, as it has 4 doors but the windows are frameless.
I stand to be corrected, but I think I'm right on this one . . . unusual as this may be!

[digifish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup%C3%A9

digifish

[Shaun]

What law says a Coupe cant be a 5 door..... CLS is a coupe through and through.

[MatsHolden]

CLS is a coupe through and through.

That's what I was saying...

[MatsHolden]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup%C3%A9

digifish

Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all. lol Anyone can write or adjust definitions and info on that site.

[rjastra]

The CLS would be classified as a "hardtop".

Not even the yanks were arrogant to name their 4 door behemoths "coupes" just because they had frameless windows.

Are subarus called "coupes".. they have frameless windows as does the previous Magna

Back to the drawing board chaps....

[MatsHolden]

The CLS is a Coupe. Simple as that. Hasn't got anything to do with frameless windows, but it's styling. Not only Mercedes classify it as a Coupe but in all write ups and reviews the critics refer to it as Coupe.

[rjastra]

Main Entry: cou·pé
Variant(s): or coupe /kü-'pA, 2 often 'küp/
Function: noun
Etymology: French coupé, from past participle of couper to cut, strike
1 : a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with an outside seat for the driver in front
2 usually coupe : a 2-door automobile often seating only two persons; also : one with a tight-spaced rear seat

OR

A coupe (or coupé) is a two or four-seater car with a fixed roof and two doors. The style is generally used for sportier models in a manufacturer's range. In the 19th century, a coupé was a carriage with two doors enclosing seating for two with an exposed area on the front for a driver.

OR
a car with two doors and front seats and a luggage compartment


Refer... 2 DOOR! Otherwise its called a SEDAN.

Will people STOP trying to redefine the meaning of a word just to suit their argument. The CLS is not a Coupe... it's a SEDAN.

[Shaun]

Main Entry: cou·pé
Variant(s): or coupe /kü-'pA, 2 often 'küp/
Function: noun
Etymology: French coupé, from past participle of couper to cut, strike
1 : a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with an outside seat for the driver in front
2 usually coupe : a 2-door automobile often seating only two persons; also : one with a tight-spaced rear seat

OR

A coupe (or coupé) is a two or four-seater car with a fixed roof and two doors. The style is generally used for sportier models in a manufacturer's range. In the 19th century, a coupé was a carriage with two doors enclosing seating for two with an exposed area on the front for a driver.

OR
a car with two doors and front seats and a luggage compartment


Refer... 2 DOOR! Otherwise its called a SEDAN.

Will people STOP trying to redefine the meaning of a word just to suit their argument. The CLS is not a Coupe... it's a SEDAN.

I like to step in here and Give you Some correct INFORMATION that is correct RJ ASTRA. The CLS Is a Coupe. I work for Daimler Chrysler. (Which Mercedes Benz is part of the Daimler Chrysler Group) and every document i have seen on email refering to the CLS has been classed as a coupe.

[blueraven]

um...who gives a toss? so what if one company classes a car as a coupe when its not...plenty of cars that could have been called coupe's havent been...barina coupe anyone?


i just wish we got the astra g coupe here...such a damn fine car, would have happily jumped from my calibra into it (since it was basically the new calibra anyway..)

[MatsHolden]

And also why do insurance companies list 4D Coupe, 3D Coupe and 3D Sports Coupe as options of body type...

[MatsHolden]

plenty of cars that could have been called coupe's havent been...barina coupe anyone?



Who called the Barina a Coupe? lol

[Shaun]

um...who gives a toss? so what if one company classes a car as a coupe when its not...plenty of cars that could have been called coupe's havent been...barina coupe anyone?


i just wish we got the astra g coupe here...such a damn fine car, would have happily jumped from my calibra into it (since it was basically the new calibra anyway..)

I agree ... Why has the thread gone from what it was about. A 5 Door SRi T hatch.

[MK]

um...who gives a toss? so what if one company classes a car as a coupe when its not...plenty of cars that could have been called coupe's havent been...barina coupe anyone?


i just wish we got the astra g coupe here...such a damn fine car, would have happily jumped from my calibra into it (since it was basically the new calibra anyway..)



i once contemplated to import one from NZ...they have few Astra G 2dr Coupes there...

[rjastra]

I like to step in here and Give you Some correct INFORMATION that is correct RJ ASTRA. The CLS Is a Coupe. I work for Daimler Chrysler. (Which Mercedes Benz is part of the Daimler Chrysler Group) and every document i have seen on email refering to the CLS has been classed as a coupe.

Doesn't mean its correct ;)

Next you will be calling the Astra VXr a 3 door wagon.

[Shaun]

Doesn't mean its correct ;)

Next you will be calling the Astra VXr a 3 door wagon.

How can the Maker of the Vehicle have the Body Style incorrect. Honestly though who cares.

The Thread is about a 5 DOOR HATCH SRi T as found in wheels.

[phat-dave]

well i wouldnt call my srit a coupe, its more like a 4x4 .... piece of puss rides higher than a prado !!