Bad Caryard Experience

[CJB]

Now, I won't name company names in this thread, but I feel this whole experience warrants a post.

I recently posted, and many know that Ash and I just bought an Astra Coupe CDX, a great car. Exactly what we wanted.

I was looking to get rid of the Lancer, but was planning to wait until the New Year, as money for a new car swap right now was a bit tight with Christmas and many QLD events yada yada, but we stopped into this dealership to look at another car, for the hell of it, and ended up being talked into what seemed like a good deal once we spotted the Astra.

We both made it clear that we weren't ready for this, simply because of the timing, but the Manager came back and offered 3 months deferred car payments, so the car loan would over 5 years and 3 months, not the straight 5 years. That appealed and we saw no reason as to why we couldn't at least see what deal they would offer.

They presented a fair deal, $18k for my Lancer trade, which was a huge improvement from what we had been offered. So I applied for finance. I was told this finance would be going through Esanda, since the Lancer loan was through Esanda and there was a history it suited me fine.

The loan application was almost processed, but they instructed me I would need a guarantor. So, I gathered all the facts together and Ash and I went to my Mum and presented the "New car case". Impressed with the research, Mum agreed, as it freed her name completely from the Lancer.

But Mum wanted to ensure she wouldn't be lumped with the payments in the event of an inury or unemployment. So, I was told I could take out a loan for that, which suited everyone, including me - I accepted.

The loan went through with no dramas, a speedy pick up, two days after we saw the car originally, Ash and I went to pick it up after work. Caught up in all the excitement we sat there and spoke to the finance lady, whom I had spoken with three times earlier in the day. She basically pointed at the documents, told me where to sign and gave a gist of what the forms were.

Just as I went to sign the first document, I said something about the deferred payment to her, along the lines of "Glad I got that included" because I had just been given a monthly car payment figure. That's when, as I held the pen about to sign, she informs Ash and I.. "Oh sorry, we couldn't get that for you in the loan"

I was shocked. Ask Ash, I started breathing heavy and silently freaked. Unsure of what to do, I signed the forms anyways (which could be seen as stupid - but as far as I was aware, the initial contracts signed were all subject to finance, finance had been approved).

I remember Ash just looked at me. I was freaking, but thought to myself "It's ok, everything has gone so smoothly with this car, I haven't had to fight anything, it's all ok, it will be ok" so I calmed a little. That's when the next 'bombshell' as they call them came.

My finance wasn't through Esanda, it was now with GMAC. Although a small detail, I feel she should have made mention this sometime during the 3 phone calls I had with her during the day!!!

I didn't mind, I figured, GMAC, Esanda, GE, they are all a pack of bastards, but we need them.

Took the car, all was good to go, only - they hadn't done a roadworthy on it yet. (Being a demo car, still needed a road worthy). So the Manager asked me if I could come back at lunch the next day. I agreed - but told them I only had an hour, and he said that would be ample time.

The next day I went back at 12.00pm on my lunch break. I sat in that dealership by myself for 2 hours whilst they stuffed around putting my personalised plates on the car and did a simple road worthy. After an hour and 30 minutes I asked the Manager how long left, because I had to get my a$$ back to work, he actually gave me attitude and told me to go sit down. At 2pm, I left the dealership.

On the Monday of this week, I noticed a crack in the foglight in the front. I am not saying it was the dealerships fault, and I am not saying it didn't happen in my possession, what I am saying is I told the dealership about it and they quickly told me I must have done something - but to Ash's knowledge, and my knowledge, we haven't hit anything. So they are quick to pass the buck on that shows me.

That brings us to yesterday, whilst at another dealership talking deals - it came up about my loan contract insurance. After confirming that I am only on contract employment at the moment the Finance Manager there tells me this dealership that sold me Astra should not have given me that Insurance, as it doesn't apply to me. That's basically $4,430 I have added to my loan for something I can never use.

I was so angry.

But Ash and I worked out, it's ok, I can just cancel that, and that figure will be put onto my GMAC loan therefore making me ahead in my loan repayments. Seemed awesome. Grabbed my SWANN insurance documents, and came to work. I then started flicking through the documents, as I have not a single document from GMAC about my loan with them, and that's when I found my borrowed amount exceeds what I was told it would by a large number of dollars, and that I have a residual!!!! I have a $14,800 residual on the loan, and no one mentioned a word of this!

BEFORE any comments come back about I should have read the documents before signing, Ash will back me up on this, she did not say anything about a balloon, she did not show us any documents with these figures, or anything like this. I signed what she said I had to, and we did glance at the docs, but not a single document held figures like this one.

I freaked, at work, again.

She handed me this Swann booklet with all the information about my gap cover insurance, and loan protection insurance AFTER I signed the documents. AFTER I SIGNED! And, she did not say anything.

So, I rang the dealership, and spoke to her, and her words were these...

"I told you I structured a 7 year loan into a 5 year loan".

WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN? I am 20 for f*ck sake. I asked around work if that translated into "You have a residual" and not one person saud yes.

I should ALSO make mention of how sloppy and careless this dealership is when it comes to paying out old loans.

The Esanda loan was due to be paid out either last Thursday, or Friday (the loan was signed late Thursday, so I assumed Esanda would be paid out on Friday for the Lancer as I traded it to them). I went on thinking the loan was paid out, it's pay week this week and I had about $230 left in my savings account on Monday 4th December. Come Tuesday I go to pay for lunch with Ash, and it's declined from the ATM. I check my account when I get back to work, Esanda have deducted the usual car payment, and I have been hit with a dishonour fee for not having sufficient funds in the bank. I went mental.

I rang Esanda and abused the poor man with hard to understand English, and he eventually spat out that the loan hadn't been paid out - I rang the dealership and they looked into it before calling me back and confirming, they had forgotten about it. That was their words, they had forgotten.

So, I was left without money until payday yesterday, and lost $90 in dishonour fees, which put my account into debit, and I am still waiting to be reimbursed from the dealership because the loan repayment to Esanda should never have gone through.

Ok, there are a few things here that I could have done, like cancelled the direct debit with Esanda myself. It's bad to assume anything - but had I done that anyways, Esanda would be hitting me up for money, and possibly defaulting me for non payment, because the dealership didn't pay the loan out.

There are a few things here in the whole scenario that could have been avoided had I been more careful, and I am currently restructuring finances to take care of that ugly balloon figure, and it will be sorted, no thanks to the dealership, I just want this looong story to be a good warning for anyone who wants to buy a car from a dealership.

Having said that, I will say Doug Barton Holden have been wonderful - and I wish I had gone to them in the first place.

[Wraith]

Gee wiz Crispy, I really feel for you mate...

One lesson about this to everybody is BEWARE when buying new cars from most dealers regardless of brand - They will try to sell you anything, whether you can actually afford it or not - they don't care - at the end of the day it's a commission cheque in their pocket.......

I have a very close friend who resigned as a salesman from a Werribee Holden dealer (yes I will mention them) because of dodgy sales issues he could not live with doing to people, that were being perpetrated and encouraged at that dealership !!!

I had 2 separate deals at 2 seperate Holden dealers fall through on a brand new Monaro and GTO respectively, over the past 18 months because of dodgy arrangements and dealings and there was 'no finance' involved ! and I had to threaten legal action to get my deposits back - which worked.

Once again BUYER BEWARE and always read everything on ALL documents.

[blueraven]

um...

sorry but all i can see apart from the usual i would expect from a dealer, is that you really didnt know what the hell you were doing, and should not have gona ahead with it in the first place. "only 20" is definately not an excuse.

Agreed, they treated you like a sucker, but then i am afraid the only people that let themselves get treated like that....are suckers.

[CJB]

Lucky, I can afford the car. That was never an issue really. I just didn't want repayments now, to disrupt Christmas etc.

And that's the other thing, the deposit never came back. They said it would be refunded, but apparently, it was just added into the loan. That's not what we wanted.


Luckily, there is damage control here, and it's not so much bad, as it all is a hassle. Just a huge hassle.

Yes buyer beware. And my sole intention of this post is to help reinforce that, because clearly, I did not listen - and Ash who is much more practical and more grounded with these things didn't even pick up on it - so they are sneaky, and use sneaky tactics.

My aunty used to work for a caryard, and she herself said she quit because she would feel ill on the crap they would pull.

I always wanted to be a carsalesman - always, because I love cars. But I couldn't do this to people. I am not the most moral person out there, but there is a line.

[CJB]

um...

sorry but all i can see apart from the usual i would expect from a dealer, is that you really didnt know what the hell you were doing, and should not have gona ahead with it in the first place. "only 20" is definately not an excuse.

Agreed, they treated you like a sucker, but then i am afraid the only people that let themselves get treated like that....are suckers.
as I said, there was a lot I did that I shouldn't have. But this serves as a reminder for others not to be so free and easy.

And you cannot excuse the fact that they didn't pay my Esanda loan out, when that was their job to do it.

And no, being 20 isn't an excuse, but it's a fact. Age really has nothing to do with it - it's their lack of communication.

A car dealer is out to make money yes, but at the same time, they have to keep communication open with the customer.

Of course I am comparing this dealership to Doug Barton Holden, and DBH wins for Customer Service hands down, and they are getting plenty of sales.

[Tfer]

Feel for you mate... and regardless of experience, or lack of experience, even the most experienced people get caught out in the "heat of the moment".

It does appear that possibly certain things were not explained correctly, which under the UCCC (Uniform Consumer Credit Code) they are legally bound to.... and you may have a case against them with the Banking Ombudsman. Point to ponder....

Respect to you Crispy, for bringing this out into the open, so that other members can learn from your experience :cool:

One other thing, for anyone in the future... you have the right to take the finance documentation away, and have them translated for you by someone else, if finance is not your forte. Don't ever assume! ;)

Thank you once again Crispy for bringing this experience to all of Opelaus :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[CJB]

Thanks Thomas :)

I will gladly tell this, and accept being called a "sucker" :)

It's about ethics too. There is a game with cardealerships. I know that. I know there are tactics, but what this dealership have done is beyond ridiculous, and yes, there will possibly be legal involvement in this. Have since been on the phone to my Grandparents, who have contacted their solicitor, and there is a case - lucky for me, Ash is a witness to most of it.

Like I said, having a balloon, is nothing to weep about any longer then the initial shock of it- it's just a combination of EVERYTHING... broken promises on their end, lack of communication, misrepresentation.

[Red AH SRI T]

awwww *HUGZ*

poor crispy bacon bits!!!

I hate it when i hear stories like this because it ruins the reputations of those daelers and sales/finance sales people who are trying to do the right thing.

[Mr T]

Dude...Normally I stick up for the dealers in these cases...but man, (as we say) they saw you coming...

As you know I have spent many years working in and for dealers and my wife was a Business Manager (finance salesman) as well.

OK, you have been shafted, I recommend telling that same story to the local Dept of Fair Trading (the QLD equivalent Anyway).

In 2003, new laws were past that put the pressure on this sort of practice, ie not explaining in simple terms what everything means...this included explaining comparison rates and disclosing the commissions that the dealer made.(I bet they didn't that - I bet alot of money they didn't do that)

There is a TAFE course in NSW that is compulsory now to learn the rules of the FSRA (Financial Services Review Act)...and it sounds to me that they have not adheared to any of the new rules...

...Call me if you want...!!!

[Ishley]

um...

sorry but all i can see apart from the usual i would expect from a dealer, is that you really didnt know what the hell you were doing, and should not have gona ahead with it in the first place. "only 20" is definately not an excuse.

Agreed, they treated you like a sucker, but then i am afraid the only people that let themselves get treated like that....are suckers.

We are not suckers, we had NO reason to think we would be f*cked over by this dealer. If we were to name the dealer we purchased the car from im more then sure everyone would be shocked at the unethical behaviour. I am more then sure you yourself have not red through your loan contract FULLY upon purchase of the car.

Being "only 20" was not used as an excuse, rather that things should have been explained. More so the fact that stipulations were made that we would not go throught with the loan had the 3 month deferred repayments not been included in the loan. Had any mention of a balloon (residual) been talked about in our loan, i would have stopped it there no matter how much Crispy loved the car.

We are lucky that we can afford the loan, and repayments will be made on time every time. It, however, will not stop us from making complaints to the right people.

BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND CALLING PEOPLE SUCKERS, I SUGGEST YOU APPOLIGISE TO CRISPY, AND THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

[Mr T]

Just thought about something...If you refinance within the next 6 months, the dealer will have their commission retracted...Who will have the last laugh...???


MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Wraith]

Just thought about something...If you refinance within the next 6 months, the dealer will have their commission retracted...Who will have the last laugh...???


MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good one Mr T :)

Sweet revenge - DO IT Crispy :D

We should also organise an egging of this dealership LOL :D joke :p

[oneightoo]

yeah def re-finance dude.. sounds very sus what they did, very dodgy.. hope it works itself out for ya dude..

[blueraven]

We are not suckers, we had NO reason to think we would be f*cked over by this dealer. If we were to name the dealer we purchased the car from im more then sure everyone would be shocked at the unethical behaviour. I am more then sure you yourself have not red through your loan contract FULLY upon purchase of the car.

Being "only 20" was not used as an excuse, rather that things should have been explained. More so the fact that stipulations were made that we would not go throught with the loan had the 3 month deferred repayments not been included in the loan. Had any mention of a balloon (residual) been talked about in our loan, i would have stopped it there no matter how much Crispy loved the car.

We are lucky that we can afford the loan, and repayments will be made on time every time. It, however, will not stop us from making complaints to the right people.

BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND CALLING PEOPLE SUCKERS, I SUGGEST YOU APPOLIGISE TO CRISPY, AND THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

I stated the obvious from where i sit, and my opinion stands. I believe people should take more responsability for their own actions. Crispy has taken it like a man, and for that i applaud him, for highlighting it to others, i also applaud him.

I have read through every single contract i have ever signed, and though i am "only 26" i have owned 5 cars, 6 motorcycles, 2 boats and 1 property.

He got shafted, thats obvious, as stated, they saw him coming, and unfortunately he was a sucker. they may not have mentioned certain things, but then he also didnt ask certain things. everyone agrees it could have been handled better.

I understand your need to defend him, but i didnt attack him. You might want to think before you post too....

Live and learn.

[MK]

sorry to hear this Ishley and Krispy (sorry for mispelling your names...)

[Vectracious]

Lots of other stuff

BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND CALLING PEOPLE SUCKERS, I SUGGEST YOU APPOLIGISE TO CRISPY, AND THINK BEFORE YOU POST.


You cannot expect to post what was basically a stuff up on your's and Crispy's behalf on a public forum and then expect every person to say "that's OK, it's the dealers fault, we were the innocent party in all of this.....".

I agree with Blueraven - you were sucked in by the dealer - you had multiple chances to not sign the papers - and you signed them anyway. The car didnt even come with a roadworthy initially anyway!! Crispy admitted himself he got sucked in, Blueraven does not owe anyone an apology.

And not mentioning the dealer is appreciated, not because its unethical, but because the last thing Wayne and the admin team need is the dealer involved threatening legal action for defamation of character or whatever because you guys stuffed up.

[Tfer]

I would be happy Crispy to organise the refinance of the loan for you. Not a problem :D

[platypus]

credit sucks...

avoid it like the plague... or just file for insolvancy!

[Rhino]

iam itilian...

... but if i dont have the cash for somthing its simple, i cant have it.
Best of luck renting or living with your parents for the rest of your life.


As far as the dealer is concerned... well the finance dept any way. Very poor form! Definitely not acceptable for them to change what you stated you had wanted and that they said they could deliver without consultation.

I would definitely complain... but realistically, and aside from being a bit upset, you don't really have a leg to stand on. You NEVER sign anything you do not agree with or understand.

Sucks dude. But, lesson learned.
The only stupid questions are the ones not asked.

Hope this gets resolved.

[blueraven]

you missed this part.. as if anyone can buy a house without taking out a laon these days.


I did.



Dont try and make me look like a fool by quoting parts of my post. it would be appreciated in future :) and dont talk about my personal life.


He wasnt trying anything, you made a casual statment "i dont have the cash for somthing its simple, i cant have it." you didnt specify what. I didnt see any reference to your personal life. Paranoid much?


are you actully a part of site admin. ? dont see wayne getting lippy in the forums.

Yes he is, and has been since this site started, i dont see why you think you can question him, or where you think he is getting "lippy". Aside from the first line, the rest of his reply had nothing to do with you. Chill out.

[CJB]

I would be happy Crispy to organise the refinance of the loan for you. Not a problem :D
Thanks Tfer - will be sure to do that :)

I would like to say one last time, this wasn't to complain about how they sucked me in, I WAS AWARE OF THAT - this was to warn others by telling what had happened, even when we thought we were getting a good deal. And not once did I whinge about being sucked in, what my complaint was or is about is the way they handled things.


Numerous people have already commented that it's not fair trading - and as far as legs to stand on, I didn't say I had one, I said it had been suggested - hence the legal consultation.


Blackie, don't worry, I know not all car dealers and carsalesman are like this - just few and far between :)

As for cash - if we could, we would :)

[Ishley]

If i could pay cash for everything i would, unfortunately a good credit rating is essential especially when it comes time to buy a house... We were suckered in - in is the way we were not told on the balloon. And sold an insurance product we could not use.

The insurance product has since been cancelled and saved us $4400. As the title says its "bad caryard experence" suggesting to warn and share others, not for us to be flamed for our bad/inexperienced decision. We are human and that is why pencils had erasers....

[WLD-18L]

whatever. i know where you guys are coming from. the honest truth is they speak so much crap and sneakily tell you the bare minimum and make it sound great.

too bad guys :? feel for you, thats alot of cash, and when you buy a car its ment to be an AWsome new experiance, not one you want to forget.

[pred8r]

Not good to hear Crispy.

The finance people i bought my SRi, and the Renault (both through their respective dealerships) were fantastic.
When Mrs Pred bought her Getz,we got done (in fees and fine print)

I would recommend both my dealerships but will NEVER be buying from any of the different brands that are run by the Hyundai dealership.

In my case for the Ren, i NEEDED the finance approved because i would have NO problem once i started work with the van. It was hard work for him, as going off the last payslip i had, it left me with $300/mth in my pocket and the van is $1k/mth but he managed. I was amazed and am extremely grateful.

I will be buying my next van through the same dealership (after ive shopped for pricing elsewhere :D).

[Tfer]

Ah well, it seems some people in our forum are luckier than others not to have to borrow for some (or all) of their significant purchases, and it is common fact that the majority do have to borrow. Isn't it wonderful we have a diverse bunch of members? Sure is, in my opinion :D

I chose to borrow for my Veccy C, and it is tax effective, and she has done a simply marvellous job of that. :cool: I am in finance, but I had someone else, not a party to the transaction, check the paperwork for me, as I was too close to the transaction (ie. it was my purchase). They confirmed to me that the finance was exactly what I requested and negotiated (which of course I totally expected). ;)

Thanks again Crispy... hard lesson learnt. I bet you will be a whole more savvy the next time you have to sign any contract in the future. ;)

And I have run this whole interesting scenario past my legal counsel (mind you, as a third person using the information that you have told me), and the dealership could be in a breach in a number of areas. :( for them... but they should know better, and the laws are there to protect the consumer (UCCC, FSRA and PAMDA).

But I cannot stress it enough to everyone... if you are not dealing with finance on a daily basis, and sometimes even if you are, when it comes time to sign finance documentation, please seek independant advice, and make sure you fully understand everything, before you put pen to paper. It is your legal right and moral obligation (to yourself, to your partner and to your family).:)

Now Crispy.... go and enjoy this Astra CDX Coupe;)

[Blue_Dvl]

been there done that. I feel very sorry for you guys..... the car dealer finance people do not fully explain things to you, and they push finance through where banks etc.... would Decline it.

I bought a falcon about 4 years ago and after getting away from the dealer and reading the contract realised a 16% interest rate .......... lifes not meant to be easy but i guess you learn from your mistakes. (hopefully)

[Charlatan]

If i could pay cash for everything i would, unfortunately a good credit rating is essential especially when it comes time to buy a house...
Thats just wrong.

Hard lesson learnt, but we all learn these lessons when we are young one way or another. Never sign anything you are not completely comfortable with. Sadly, dealers know that young guys are an easy target, all the shiny things in their showroom clouds peoples better judgement. Every couple of months a thread like this pops up on various forums.

Sounds like you can afford what you have signed up for, so just put it behind you and enjoy the car.

[CJB]

Thanks guys... for the nice comments. Like I said, wasn't posting for sympathy, I could have just said all this in the bored thread - just wanted everyone to know, and hopefully some might learn or be reminded.

The thing is, I have seen A Current Affair when they do stories like this - and I always said "Never me" but like Tfer said, when it's you and your interests involved, pretty much every ounce of judgement goes out the window.

But, I will learn - We already have - Ash has already been more cautious and aware with his latest car purchase :)

So we did learn ;)

And Tfer like I told you, I am one for experiences, and have heaps under my belt for someone my age - this is merely another one to add to it.

[ronj]

Life is a learning curve, I'm possibly the oldest member here at 53, when I was 20 I may not of read the fine print on all documents I signed. But you soon learn that you have to take the time and read everything no matter how long it takes, or take it to someone (solictor, friend etc) and get some independent advice. I feel for our friend Crispy but I'm sure he will not make the same mistake again, its a lesson to be learnt for all of us.

[Mr T]

Why would you want to pay cash for a car...that’s just dumb...!!!

For starters it's a depreciating asset, so all that money you saved gets pissed up the wall in depreciation.

Secondly, good investment returns these days are paying in the order of 15%.

The old mentality of pay everything with cash is rather foolish and counter productive...

if you had $20,000 to buy a car, invest it at relatively safe 15% option, and lease the car at say 7-10% (depend on how much they want your business).

Net result, you make 5% on the value of you car AND in 5 years time you still have $20,000...!!!

[Ishley]

Good point Glen!


Besides, we live in a world that doesn't really have money anymore. Not how it use to be. No one pays cash for anything anymore.

I don't even carry cash.

[JasonGilholme]

Bad luck guys,

I've seen a few people get roped into **** like this.

i think i'll end up getting a personal loan from a bank rather then letting the dealership handle the paperwork. They're just too unreliable.

Also, i would have sold the car privately. Probably would have gotten more for it and then you would have had a clean slate to start with for the purchase of the new ride.

it can be really confusing but if you break it down into smaller simpler sections it can become easier to understand.

[ultim8DTM5]

We are not suckers, we had NO reason to think we would be f*cked over by this dealer. If we were to name the dealer we purchased the car from im more then sure everyone would be shocked at the unethical behaviour. I am more then sure you yourself have not red through your loan contract FULLY upon purchase of the car.

Being "only 20" was not used as an excuse, rather that things should have been explained. More so the fact that stipulations were made that we would not go throught with the loan had the 3 month deferred repayments not been included in the loan. Had any mention of a balloon (residual) been talked about in our loan, i would have stopped it there no matter how much Crispy loved the car.

We are lucky that we can afford the loan, and repayments will be made on time every time. It, however, will not stop us from making complaints to the right people.

BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND CALLING PEOPLE SUCKERS, I SUGGEST YOU APPOLIGISE TO CRISPY, AND THINK BEFORE YOU POST.


I stopped reading at this post.

I have ZERO sympathy towards people who sign things before reading them.

After a house, a car is the largest purchase you can make in your life. Sure, you were stiffed somewhat, but if you go through life with a naive, nonchalance towards any financial transaction and place utmost face in, of all persons, a finance person at a car lot, you will have more experiences such as this.

[entice]

Good point Glen!


Besides, we live in a world that doesn't really have money anymore. Not how it use to be. No one pays cash for anything anymore.

I don't even carry cash.

Rubbish.

Last car I sold was for cash. Over 40K in $50 notes takes up a fair bit of space. There is plenty cash out there, and plenty people spending it. Cash is King.

Do I pay cash? heck no! I deduct all my car purchases, so since they are depreciable, and since they are deductible, use the credit there.

But I digress.

I knew it was all going to go wrong when I realised you were getting yet ANOTHER car. didnt you just sell a barina to buy a Lancer (or hang on, that was mum?), and now you've tired of that and are buying an astra?
How long will that last?
It's all on credit, so maybe you should start thinking of saving up a bit before you throw away heaps and heaps of money on non-essential, non deductible, depreciating liabilities. they are NOT assets. (ok, i'll stop sounding like your elders here)

Some people say what others only dare to think....

Next time stop, and think before you do anything

[CJB]

I didn't ask for comments on how often I get cars, who buys them, or how much they are.


That's my decision and my choice.

And I actually posted last when Ash did (was in his account by accident) and what I meant was, we don't see paper money anymore... everything is electronic or credit.


What you dare to say Entice is, you think I am a spoilt brat who wastes money on new cars whenever I want them.

News flash - I PAY for them every week with MY own money. I didn't ask for comments on what you thought of me getting a new car - because, you don't know the full extent of the circumstances. No one does, not even Tfer or Donna or Matchu. Only Ash and I really know.

Stick to what the thread says... and remember, I posted not to complain, but to SHARE the experience to others who may be like me and jump in first before reading.

Some of you are just so quick to say "we don't have sympathy" - AND WE DIDN'T ASK FOR IT.

[entice]

Take a step back, and re-read my (unedited) post.
I didnt say your mum was buying the car. I didnt say you were spoilt.

Yes, i did comment on the frequency of your new car experiences, and I would have thought a person with so many new car experiences would have been awake to the dealings that can occur.

Crispy, I was attempting to give you some sound advise. you do with it what you see fit. You dont have my sympathy. You do, however, have my pity.

But, Don't ass-u-me cos You'll always make an ASS of U before ME

[Turblue]

Points have been made.

Closed.