The Holden Card, seen the changes??

[astra03]

I opened my monthly Westpac/Holden Mastercard bill this morning to find a leaflet regarding "Important information regarding the Holden Card program".

They have "reviewed" the redemption values on some Holden vehicles. In a nutshell, all Commodore/HSV/Statesman/Adventura will retain the maximum rebate allowable of $3000.

However from there the rebates drop dramatically. It is now $1000 on Vectra/Tigra/Captiva. Wait for it.... $750 on Astra/Viva/Combo/Rodeo and just $500 on Barina.

These changes come into effect on February 1 2007.

So this means that the $2500 I currently have earnt as rebate on my next Astra if I decided to purchase another is now $750.
This is a drop of 75% compared to the $3000 currently on offer on the size vehicle I would be interested in in the near future.

So I wonder how many other Opelaus members are affected by this??????

This is a dramatic change and my plan will now be to pay out the rest of the Westpac card, then close it. The interest rate is higher than other cards, but my main beef is I have earnt this money by using the card (and paying interest on it) so I could have the benefit of some rebate come car change time.

My $2500 rebate will be worth less than 1/3 that amount come about 2 months time. All very well if you had the money to update prior to the end of January, but I dont and wouldnt have until the planned car changeover time of between another 18-24 months.

If the program has been such a success and is costing Holden money, in fairness to existing customers they should give them far more time to utilise their rebates earnt. All NEW customers could go onto the rate scale as of February 1, but to strip exisiting customers with rebate credit is heartbreaking.

If this is the way Holden treat and reward their customers and lets be real here, both Holden and Westpac get a "kickback" from every time you use your card in some way, then I will NEVER purchase another Holden again.

Thanks Holden, I am just a average wage earning person who you have just kicked in the guts.

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

[MatsHolden]

Yep noticed that, a bit annoying but I can see why they've done that, because they don't have the margin for $3000 off the RRP on the 'cheaper' cars whereas with the Commodore and variants they can afford to.

[astra03]

yes of course that is why, but it is not very good business to penailise people like myself who have spent the last couple of years building rebate dollars only for them to be slashed in value with very little notice to take advantage of using what I have built up. If they thought it was too much to credit on cars other than Commodore etc, then they should have had a sliding scale in the first place.

A total disregard for exisiting customers, a real smack in the face.

[Mr T]

hhmmm...Danny Mooney is stuffing that company...bring back hanemburger I say...!!!

[MatsHolden]

If they thought it was too much to credit on cars other than Commodore etc, then they should have had a sliding scale in the first place.


When they first started the GM card scheme they would have thought it was justifiable to discount up to $3000 accross the entire range, but in business there are a whole lot of factors that change over time that cause companies to review the way they do things. Sure they could have extended the period of time for GM card holders to redeem their crdit but like it or not Holden is a business and the bottom line is to make a profit. It won't matter to them that this decission may cause some customers to look elsewhere for future vehicles as in the overall scheme of things it will be only a very small portion of customers. Not saying it's fair, but business isn't always fair.

[MatsHolden]

hhmmm...Danny Mooney is stuffing that company...bring back hanemburger I say...!!!

Yeh Pete was great. And he'd been at Holden for years so new what the Holden brand was about.

[astra03]

You sure you arent on Holdens direct payroll.

Mate you stick up for them when they jam it right up the customer. I have read your replies to other people's issues and like Holden you have no empathy for other people's feelings or problems. So of your posts in reply to people who have real problems with their cars and are at their wits end, are from a very narrow and uncaring mind. All you see is black and white. Have you been to the Holden brainwashing school, to rid yourself of emotions and care factors????

Their actions would be totally legal if you could read and understand the miles of 2pt text attached to all their paperwork, but the bottom line is it is a morally incorrect decision to do it in such a manner.

You are right about one thing, they couldn't give a stuff about losing customers to other makes, but if as you say it is only a small proportion, why is this action so drastic then?????

I knew some ****head would stand up for Holden, you are a clown wake up to yourself

[R3N]

Thanks Holden, I am just a average wage earning person who you have just kicked in the guts.

I'd say they kicked you a little lower than that mate!

It is true that what they have done might be legal (eg. fine print stating they only need to give you x months notice) but I don't think they really care about their customers. After all, this isn't Holden's main business but it certainly does give themselves a bad name.

Although business isn't fair in its own sense, good business practices are about keeping the customers happy. In this day and age, its really hard to see any brand loyalty, as people seem to go where the best deal is. However, this might or might not affect Holden's sales at all.

If I were you I'd write to them telling them how you feel and you've been accumulating the rebate and say you were planning on buying a new Astra sometime in the coming year, see what they say. Its a shot in the dark but nonetheless still a shot.

[Charlatan]

You sure you arent on Holdens direct payroll.

Mate you stick up for them when they jam it right up the customer. I have read your replies to other people's issues and like Holden you have no empathy for other people's feelings or problems. So of your posts in reply to people who have real problems with their cars and are at their wits end, are from a very narrow and uncaring mind. All you see is black and white. Have you been to the Holden brainwashing school, to rid yourself of emotions and care factors????

Their actions would be totally legal if you could read and understand the miles of 2pt text attached to all their paperwork, but the bottom line is it is a morally incorrect decision to do it in such a manner.

You are right about one thing, they couldn't give a stuff about losing customers to other makes, but if as you say it is only a small proportion, why is this action so drastic then?????

I knew some ****head would stand up for Holden, you are a clown wake up to yourself


I agree with Mats. Its a commercial decision by Holden, sometimes people get burned by this. Sucks to be you. All companies reserve the right to change their promotions/offers at their discretion. Frequent flyers are the same.

Your attack on him cause he doesnt bag Holden is a bit rich. Like he says, not fair, but the way it is. What do you want by posting on this site? a whole heap of people to give you a virtual group hug??

[Rhino]

Not that simple. And I don't think it would be GM calling the shots. It would be a deal brokered by the bank who would reimburse GM a percentage of the money THEY make on interest, which GM can then pass back on to you. So, it may even be the banks flexing their muscle and GM having to tow the line.

Plus, I doubt the margin on a large vehicle would even be 3k. HSV - yeah, pull your pants down... But your bog stock cars these days don't have much profit attached to them.

At the end of the day this is a typical case of someone who signed up 'for the incentives'. And they NEVER come free.

Yep noticed that, a bit annoying but I can see why they've done that, because they don't have the margin for $3000 off the RRP on the 'cheaper' cars whereas with the Commodore and variants they can afford to.

[RudeOne]

Not that simple. And I don't think it would be GM calling the shots. It would be a deal brokered by the bank who would reimburse GM a percentage of the money THEY make on interest, which GM can then pass back on to you. So, it may even be the banks flexing their muscle and GM having to tow the line.

Plus, I doubt the margin on a large vehicle would even be 3k. HSV - yeah, pull your pants down... But your bog stock cars these days don't have much profit attached to them.

At the end of the day this is a typical case of someone who signed up 'for the incentives'. And they NEVER come free.

Margin at retail level is shown to be lower to aviod discounting, but dealerships -(not sure if its the same with holden) get volume rebates from the suppliers - dont be mistake these C**ts make a bucket load of money...

[RudeOne]

Its good for everyone to express their anger regarding this issue, ASTRA03 you have made some valid points - but i suggest putting this in writing and sending it to every holden manager until you get the response you want. maybe they can make an execption- if you plan to buy another astra not long after the cut over date of the new limits??

[MiksOpel]

I quite agree with matsholden, he's giving a business perspective, doesn't mean he's agreeing with it..

[Mr T]

Ok...time for me...

Dealers make **** all money as a percentage of the value of the car - they make enough to pay the bills...so to speak.

Holden Ltd makes a good $$$.

The amount of money they make is irrespective; they made a commitment to the market and they reneged.

It is a stupid business decision, they now have upset many people that were eligible and most likely the CC Company (Westpac) will lose customers also...!!!

I tossed up the idea about GM MasterCard or Altitude Visa with Westpac...I got duded a few years back with the Anset collapse...It was the Anset collapse that convinced me to choose Altitude as Westpac control the reward points...not a third party, in this case GM...!!!

[Blue_Dvl]

that sucks, but sadly nothing comes free and most reward programs cost you more than you actually get back.

I dont think attacking matsholden is really appropriate. He was merely giving his opinion on your thread. If you didnt want to hear it perhaps you shouldnt have posted as it is a public forum and like yourself people everyone is entitled to an opinion.

[sri05]

I am most upset about this as well. I hadn't heard about it as I haven't received my bill.

I have $3000 rebate accumulated and intended to use it towards the end of next year on an Astra. This will now be stolen, or most of it.
They entered into an agreement and are now saying - too bad.

I have redeemed the $3000 five times before on a Vectra, two Astras and two Barinas. It took the sting out of the depreciation of updating after only 2-3 years.

As someone else said, surely it could have been phased in for new credits and honoured the existing accumulation.

I will not be buying any more new Holdens and I will be using only my Coles Source Master Card where I can redeem usable vouchers.

[Mr T]

It is a stupid business decision, they now have upset many people that were eligible and most likely the CC Company (Westpac) will lose customers also...!!!



I have redeemed the $3000 five times before on a Vectra, two Astras and two Barinas.

I will not be buying any more new Holdens and I will be using only my Coles Source Master Card where I can redeem usable vouchers.

Danny Mooney...way to go tiger, come to Australia, stuff up a 1/2 OK business, then piss off back to the US when your done...Surely that time is coming soon...!!!

[entice]

Oh, well, 3 new cars in the space of 15 months, and $9K saved in total... I liked the rebate scheme...pity its not as attractive anymore... time to use the CBA c/c now... get points there, and switch to the GM m/c just when required...as 7500 is easy to rack up whilst waiting for the new car you just purchased to be delivered....

[RudeOne]

Ok...time for me...

Dealers make **** all money as a percentage of the value of the car - they make enough to pay the bills...so to speak.



straight from there website

MOTORAMA - History

The Motorama Group had its origins in the small Queensland town of Beenleigh, when in 1960, the founder, Jan Woelders, commenced business as a General Motors Holden dealer trading as Midway Motors. From these humble beginnings, Motorama has grown to become Queensland's 10th largest private company, with 480 long term and enthusiastic employees.

umm you don't become the 10th largest PTY company buy making f.all money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what would be the point of these dealerships if they made small margins? why would anyone bother doing it?

There is a member on this forum who has a family member who has a Holden and Hsv dealership and i know for a fact they make huge $$$$

just because when you go and buy a car and they knock 2 or 3k off and they show you on the screen they have only just broken even is a total load of garbage - thats what they want there sales people to see - thats there maximum bottom line - there is still plenty of fat in that price behind the scenes and probably only the owners see it.


p.s MR T not a personal stab at you mate just my opinion.

[bill142]

I agree with Mats. Its a commercial decision by Holden, sometimes people get burned by this. Sucks to be you. All companies reserve the right to change their promotions/offers at their discretion. Frequent flyers are the same.

Your attack on him cause he doesnt bag Holden is a bit rich. Like he says, not fair, but the way it is. What do you want by posting on this site? a whole heap of people to give you a virtual group hug??

Rhaa tell me about it. The amount of times Qantas have devalued their points makes them worthless. Plus it's next to impossible to get flights using them. Better off just to buy a ticket and use them as an upgrade to business class.

[sparks]

I know it stinks but thats the banks for ya i have a gm card as well used it twice got back some $$$$ off the general...It was a good incentive to buy a new car knowing a maximum of 3 grand could be coming off the bottom line..Ill be changing my card just before it comes up for annual payment...
bye bye GM card..

[Tfer]

Well I am sure, and someone else said this, it would be Westpac screwing down their expenses, to keep abreast of ever shrinking margins, and hence possibly forcing Holden to rethink what rebates they could actually do. Pure and simple business yes, but that company has a long history of being pr%cks to the normal people of Australia. Whilst I am not a fan of Holden, they cannot take all the blame.

Having said that, they should have a 6 month period whereby "loyal" clients could in fact redeem the proper amount of points, and thus phase it out that way..... that may not be the smartest business decision from a profit sense, but certainly would assist customer retention, and it is widely known that keeping an existing client is 9-10 times cheaper than getting a new one. ;)

But come on, let's repect each other's opinions. There are some very valid points raised here, raised vary passionately and I have learnt heaps from all you. ;)

[R3N]

straight from there website

MOTORAMA - History

The Motorama Group had its origins in the small Queensland town of Beenleigh, when in 1960, the founder, Jan Woelders, commenced business as a General Motors Holden dealer trading as Midway Motors. From these humble beginnings, Motorama has grown to become Queensland's 10th largest private company, with 480 long term and enthusiastic employees.

umm you don't become the 10th largest PTY company buy making f.all money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what would be the point of these dealerships if they made small margins? why would anyone bother doing it?

There is a member on this forum who has a family member who has a Holden and Hsv dealership and i know for a fact they make huge $$$$

just because when you go and buy a car and they knock 2 or 3k off and they show you on the screen they have only just broken even is a total load of garbage - thats what they want there sales people to see - thats there maximum bottom line - there is still plenty of fat in that price behind the scenes and probably only the owners see it.


p.s MR T not a personal stab at you mate just my opinion.

Most of the dealer's money comes from the overinflated prices they charge for servicing. I'm not sure how much margin they may make from new car sales but I'd imagine they make quite abit from used car sales as well.

[Mr T]

straight from there website

MOTORAMA - History

The Motorama Group had its origins in the small Queensland town of Beenleigh, when in 1960, the founder, Jan Woelders, commenced business as a General Motors Holden dealer trading as Midway Motors. From these humble beginnings, Motorama has grown to become Queensland's 10th largest private company, with 480 long term and enthusiastic employees.

umm you don't become the 10th largest PTY company buy making f.all money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what would be the point of these dealerships if they made small margins? why would anyone bother doing it?

There is a member on this forum who has a family member who has a Holden and Hsv dealership and i know for a fact they make huge $$$$

just because when you go and buy a car and they knock 2 or 3k off and they show you on the screen they have only just broken even is a total load of garbage - thats what they want there sales people to see - thats there maximum bottom line - there is still plenty of fat in that price behind the scenes and probably only the owners see it.


p.s MR T not a personal stab at you mate just my opinion.

I spent 2 years working for the Suttons Group (5 X Holden, Volvo, Ferrari, Toyota, Jeep and several truck Dealerships)...Fred Sutton is on BRW's top 50. Several years later, I spent some time with the Cumberland Motor Group, some of you may know it as the Sinclair Motor Group, It comprises of 4 dealerships. Ross Sinclair started as a Ford dealer in the 60's and is the largest commercial land holder in Penrith - he basically ownes High St.

I worked as Business Support Manager for Cumberland, they required someone to come into their dealerships and help them to develop because they were running at a net profit ratio of 0.8%...the industry standard is 1.3%. I managed to get them up to 1.1% after 1 year and had systems in place to continue that growth when my contract expired.

Now, if you think that 1.3% NP is good...perhaps you should think again. At such a small rate it is very easy to slip into negatives if sales decline suddenly.

These guys that own plenty of dealerships are wealthy, no question, but it is from money earned in the 60's, 70's and particularly the 80's. They typically are misers and have saved mostly all of their money along the way. They have grown by acquisition, but mostly by taking up new franchises when available...new franchises are free, but have a massive saleable value once established - this is what their net worth is based on.

[Mr T]

Most of the dealer's money comes from the overinflated prices they charge for servicing. I'm not sure how much margin they may make from new car sales but I'd imagine they make quite abit from used car sales as well.

I'll tell you...

New Cars - 5-6% GP
Used Cars - 8-9% GP
Service - Approx $15/hr GP
Warranty - Approx $10/hr GP
Parts - 30-40%

Overall NP 1.3%

Now before you bark up about the mark up on parts...30-40% is reasonable considering the stock turns per annum (about 4) and the value of the items. Consider a grocery retailer would have a mark up of between 50-200% with about 240 stock turns per annum...

Human nature is a funny thing...I bet you all think that Bunnings is cheaper the local Home Hardware too...

[180HOA]

Human nature is a funny thing...I bet you all think that Bunnings is cheaper the local Home Hardware too...

It never fails to amuse me how people are happy to throw down $20k, $40k, or however much on a new car... but the second they think anyone is making any money out of selling them a car, they feel like they've been shafted.

A couple of years back I saw some financial result from Ford USA that showed they actually only earned $71 per vehicle produced. Now considering the average car in the US probably sells for somewhere between $20-$30k, I think it'd be a pretty frightening company to be responsible for...

Somebody already made the comparison between the auto industry and supermarket mark-ups. Ford's $71 per vehicle would very roughly approximate to your corner store making a profit of 0.5 cents on a carton of milk...

Yes, the car industry can bring in big $$$, but it's because of the scale of the operation, not the profit per unit sold.

[RudeOne]

You are talking at a Gross marging level, but what about volume & other related rebates from the manufacturer? which hits at a PBIT level???? i did some work experience in an accounting firm many years ago who specialised in the motor vehicle industry.

[Tfer]

At the end of the day, it is the goal of the consumer to get the best deal, so if the best deal has been taken away from me, and I was about to take advantage of the best deal, I would quite rightly be p&ss#d.

And at the end of the day, the dealers, the manufacturers, etc have all taken the decision to pursue this industry, and if they cannot make enough money, that is there problem to deal with. In every other industry, manufacturers and retailers are vying for the consumer business, the all mighty $, and the consumer wants the best deal and will look high and low for it.

The sooner the manufacturers and retailers realise the consumer is nowhere near as loyal as they once were, the better and more successful they will be ;)

P.S. Everyone here has made very valid points, and I love what has been raised :D

[Mr T]

You are talking at a Gross marging level, but what about volume & other related rebates from the manufacturer? which hits at a PBIT level???? i did some work experience in an accounting firm many years ago who specialised in the motor vehicle industry.

You mean EBIT.

They receive two forms of rebates..."Holdback" and "Accrual".

If I was to quote GP figures exluding these two rebates, you would be looking at around -2.0 - 0.5% GP. Most cars these days are sold at or below "cost".

Consider Floor Plan alone, if a dealer sells 100 cars a month, they would keep 200 cars in stock, at $30,000 each ave and at 7% interest, their floor plan would be $450,000 PA...this chews up their bugger all GP pretty quick.

Rudie...I know I've quoted you twice, but don't take it personally...It's a general miss-conception out there that dealers make squillions. In Sydney atm independant used car dealers are going bust left right and centre...all because the market has had a 6% "correction" in sales.